I'll start it off with my own Conlin-esque "If I was King of the World"- at least the start of it.
1. I'd sign Rafael Furcal and switch him to 3B. Doubt he'd do it, but dream big! What other options at third base? Mueller? Randa? Helms? Larson?
2. Re-sign Wagner ASAP. Give him three years, dang it.
3. Release Lieberthal, Bell, and Tomas Perez. Trade them if possible- even if only for batting practice balls.
4. Sign AJ Burnett.
5. If he refuses his option (doubtful), sign Kyle Farnsworth or LaTroy Hopkins as a set-up guy.
6. Get a catcher, either through trade or FA. Of what I saw, there isn't much in the market this fall. We could go purely defensive and sign a Charles Johnson, who has nothing left in the tank offensively. Or we could go Back to the Future and get Benito Santiago. :paranoid I'd say get Ramon Hernandez.
7. Trade Thome to anyone- ANYONE- that will take him and give something back. Thanks, Jim, and good-bye. Ryan's taking first base.
There's a start. I know- I suck at the GM thing. Not as badly as Ed Wade, though. 8)
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 02, 2005, 11:46:28 PM3. Release Lieberthal, Bell, and Tomas Perez. Trade them if possible- even if only for batting practice balls.
This isn't the NFL. That's $12M right there. And don't expect any major free agents. They have over $70M committed to 11 players already....
That's why the "If I was king of the World." I fully expect all three to be starting once again for the Fightins.
And I suppose the "impact starting pitcher" will be along the line of John Halama. :puke
Dang it, Ed, I like my version better! :boom
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 02, 2005, 11:46:28 PM
7. Trade Thome to anyone- ANYONE- that will take him and give something back. Thanks, Jim, and good-bye. Ryan's taking first base.
I think they're going to try the Howard to LF experiment again instead of trading Thome.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 03, 2005, 12:36:10 AM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 02, 2005, 11:46:28 PM
7. Trade Thome to anyone- ANYONE- that will take him and give something back. Thanks, Jim, and good-bye. Ryan's taking first base.
I think they're going to try the Howard to LF experiment again instead of trading Thome.
Does that mean Burrell's gone? Howard+Thome+Burrell+Abreu+Utley= many, many K's- one of the main reason that the Phils' offense is so inconsistent.
If NOTHING else is done, please, please, PLEASE get rid of David Bell.
I'd rather see them move Abreu for a decent starter. If worse came to worse Bobby could play Center...I guess :paranoid Now getting him to waive his no trade clause is another story.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 03, 2005, 12:43:53 AM
I'd rather see them move Abreu for a decent starter. If worse came to worse Bobby could play Center...I guess :paranoid Now getting him to waive his no trade clause is another story.
Would that make the outfield Howard-Lofton/Michaels-Burrell?
Talk about a defensive nightmare!
People like to compare Howard and Burrell to Greg Luzinski in the outfield. In a nutshell, Lofton and Michaels are no Garry Maddox. And even Maddox had Bake McBride in RF- not another Luzinski.
I'll gladly trade defense for offense especially at CBP. Its fun to speculate, but I get the feeling we'll be heading into next season with pretty much the same team as we finished with this season (I'm sure the relief pitching situation will be entirely different though). Even if Wade's not around, another GMs gonna take a look at the young talent on this team and keep it as is. Charlie will most likely get another year because the players like him.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 03, 2005, 01:00:13 AM
I'll gladly trade defense for offense especially at CBP. Its fun to speculate, but I get the feeling we'll be heading into next season with pretty much the same team as we finished with this season (I'm sure the relief pitching situation will be entirely different though). Even if Wade's not around, another GMs gonna take a look at the young talent on this team and keep it as is. Charlie will most likely get another year because the players like him.
I think that the team will look almost identical, from top (Wade) to bottom (Tomas Perez). At most, 3-4 minor moves, and probably a new closer when Wagner signs with the Red Sox or Mets.
Burrell or Abreu must be traded to free up salary and to add a #1 pitcher.
But before I get into my wishes...they must fire the dope first.
As long as T. Perez and E. Chavez are back, I have no problems.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 03, 2005, 06:31:07 AM
Burrell or Abreu must be traded to free up salary and to add a #1 pitcher.
But before I get into my wishes...they must fire the dope first.
I vote for Burrell. He's a very good player at times, but his stats make his trade value higher than his real value.
I vote for RPGs. As in rocket propelled grenades. One for each square foot of the stadium and seven for each fan's face.
0 - 6 AGAINST THE GODDAMN ASTROS YOU STUPID SONS-A-BITCHES
:boom
I'm pissed that they didn't make the playoffs but at the same time, it was a pretty good ride. Came all the way down to the final game of the year. Besides, this was the first meaningful baseball played in October by the Phils in 12 years and they did it despite having Bell and Leiberthal on the team although I must say both did play better down the stretch than they had all year. But they still suck and I hope they get their balls stuck in a meat grinder.
Congrats to Jimmy Rollins for finishing the year strong with a 36 game hitting streak. :yay
Re-sign Wagner NOW!
Rest up during the offseason and come out strong to start the season next year and maybe you won't be fighting for a playoffs spot on the last game of the year. Bitches.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 03, 2005, 06:31:07 AM
Burrell or Abreu must be traded to free up salary and to add a #1 pitcher.
But before I get into my wishes...they must fire the dope first.
Hah! Which dope? :-D
Here's the scoop regarding Rollins' hit streak from USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/games/2005-10-02-phillies-nationals_x.htm?csp=34):
QuoteRollins can pursue Joe DiMaggio's major league record of 56 next year — sort of. The major league marks for longest hitting streak in one season and longest hitting streak spanning two seasons are separate records, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 03, 2005, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 03, 2005, 12:36:10 AM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 02, 2005, 11:46:28 PM
7. Trade Thome to anyone- ANYONE- that will take him and give something back. Thanks, Jim, and good-bye. Ryan's taking first base.
I think they're going to try the Howard to LF experiment again instead of trading Thome.
Does that mean Burrell's gone? Howard+Thome+Burrell+Abreu+Utley= many, many K's- one of the main reason that the Phils' offense is so inconsistent.
Burrell BACK to third.
Quote from: stillupfront on October 03, 2005, 10:09:31 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 03, 2005, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 03, 2005, 12:36:10 AM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 02, 2005, 11:46:28 PM
7. Trade Thome to anyone- ANYONE- that will take him and give something back. Thanks, Jim, and good-bye. Ryan's taking first base.
I think they're going to try the Howard to LF experiment again instead of trading Thome.
Does that mean Burrell's gone? Howard+Thome+Burrell+Abreu+Utley= many, many K's- one of the main reason that the Phils' offense is so inconsistent.
Burrell BACK to third.
GREAT! Then the Phils can set all sorts of records!
1. Most strikeouts in a season (and some lucky power pitcher will obliterate Clemens/Johnson by striking out 24 batters in a game).
2. Most games, 10+ runs followed by shutouts.
3. Most errors in a season.
4. Most unearned runs given up in a season.
5. Worst team average against LHP
What a lineup! :o :-D
1. Rollins SS (Because we know Manuel ain't putting Lofton or Michaels here)
2. Lofton/Michaels CF
3. Abreu RF
4. Burrell 3B
5. Thome 1B
6. Howard LF
7. Utley 2B
8. Lieberthal 2B
9. Whatever pitcher is brave/stupid enough to pitch for this Frankenstine monster in the field.
Players and management that have to be gone for me to think about liking them again:
Burrell
Abreu
Lofton
Thome
Bell
Padilla
Lidle
Urbina
Cormier
Lieberthal
Wade
Manuel
Bill Dancy
out of those, which are realistically gone if Wade is here? None
If Wade is gone which of those could possibly go?
Burrell, Abreu, Cormier, Lofton, Padilla, Thome, Manuel, Dancy, and Lieberthal(contracts are easy to move in baseball).
Still not enough for me to care.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 03, 2005, 05:47:32 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 03, 2005, 06:31:07 AM
Burrell or Abreu must be traded to free up salary and to add a #1 pitcher.
But before I get into my wishes...they must fire the dope first.
Hah! Which dope? :-D
Wade.
I thought Charlie got way too much heat this year. Was he perfect? No. But I didn't think he was as bad as everyone made him out to be.
Quote from: stillupfront on October 03, 2005, 10:09:31 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 03, 2005, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 03, 2005, 12:36:10 AM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 02, 2005, 11:46:28 PM
7. Trade Thome to anyone- ANYONE- that will take him and give something back. Thanks, Jim, and good-bye. Ryan's taking first base.
I think they're going to try the Howard to LF experiment again instead of trading Thome.
Does that mean Burrell's gone? Howard+Thome+Burrell+Abreu+Utley= many, many K's- one of the main reason that the Phils' offense is so inconsistent.
Burrell BACK to third.
No way.
I'm fine with everything offensivley except 3B and C. It's the SP, bullpen and bench that need fixing.
Hey, sorta 1/4 aint bad.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 03, 2005, 10:15:57 PM
Quote from: stillupfront on October 03, 2005, 10:09:31 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 03, 2005, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 03, 2005, 12:36:10 AM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 02, 2005, 11:46:28 PM
7. Trade Thome to anyone- ANYONE- that will take him and give something back. Thanks, Jim, and good-bye. Ryan's taking first base.
I think they're going to try the Howard to LF experiment again instead of trading Thome.
I count one bad glove.
Does that mean Burrell's gone? Howard+Thome+Burrell+Abreu+Utley= many, many K's- one of the main reason that the Phils' offense is so inconsistent.
Burrell BACK to third.
GREAT! Then the Phils can set all sorts of records!
1. Most strikeouts in a season (and some lucky power pitcher will obliterate Clemens/Johnson by striking out 24 batters in a game).
2. Most games, 10+ runs followed by shutouts.
3. Most errors in a season.
4. Most unearned runs given up in a season.
5. Worst team average against LHP
What a lineup! :o :-D
1. Rollins SS (Because we know Manuel ain't putting Lofton or Michaels here)
2. Lofton/Michaels CF
3. Abreu RF
4. Burrell 3B
5. Thome 1B
6. Howard LF
7. Utley 2B
8. Lieberthal 2B
9. Whatever pitcher is brave/stupid enough to pitch for this Frankenstine monster in the field.
Marcus Hayes is an idiot (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/12811789.htm)
David Bell gets a C-, Bobby Abreu gets a B. One guy started the all-star game, the other was the worst third baseman in baseball.
Quote from: MDS on October 04, 2005, 10:22:24 AM
Marcus Hayes is an idiot (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/12811789.htm)
David Bell gets a C-, Bobby Abreu gets a B. One guy started the all-star game, the other was the worst third baseman in baseball.
also one of them didnt do a goddamn thing the last month of the season
But he totally ruled the home run derby! And that's all the fans really care about these days anyway.
Quote from: Wingspan on October 04, 2005, 10:35:31 AM
Quote from: MDS on October 04, 2005, 10:22:24 AM
Marcus Hayes is an idiot (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/12811789.htm)
David Bell gets a C-, Bobby Abreu gets a B. One guy started the all-star game, the other was the worst third baseman in baseball.
also one of them didnt do a goddamn thing the last month of the season
Gutting it out with a bad hamstring and bad shoulder.
He should've been on the DL. Thome sucked ass when he was hurt, but no one complained.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 04, 2005, 10:40:05 AM
Quote from: Wingspan on October 04, 2005, 10:35:31 AM
Quote from: MDS on October 04, 2005, 10:22:24 AM
Marcus Hayes is an idiot (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/12811789.htm)
David Bell gets a C-, Bobby Abreu gets a B. One guy started the all-star game, the other was the worst third baseman in baseball.
also one of them didnt do a goddamn thing the last month of the season
Gutting it out with a bad hamstring and bad shoulder.
he didnt gut anything out. he just fell flat on his ass.
Quote from: MDS on October 04, 2005, 10:45:03 AM
He should've been on the DL. Thome sucked ass when he was hurt, but no one complained.
they were booing him this year, i think that counts as complaining
Not really. A hurt Abreu still hit .250 and walked a bunch. Grant it he should've been changed with Howard in the lineup, he still played hurt better than Thome.
Quote from: MDS on October 04, 2005, 10:22:24 AM
Marcus Hayes is an idiot (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/12811789.htm)
David Bell gets a C-, Bobby Abreu gets a B. One guy started the all-star game, the other was the worst third baseman in baseball.
You're right. Hayes is an idiot.
Abreu didn't deserve a B. He deserved worse. He took the second half of the season off. Whether or not his horrendous play was injury-related or not is immaterial. He deserved a C because his first half was an A and his second half was an F. Bell deserved a D at best.
One of the best Philly insiders(Howard) reported that the Phillies are bringing back everyone on the coaching staff.
Since we can assume this is true since Howard reported it, if you people go back to them for keeping Wade, Manuel, and Dancy around, you have NO right to complain after they miss the playoffs again. You buy into it, then you deserve what comes to you. This team will never make the playoffs with those 3 guys here, and we aren't even getting into the players yet.
(http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/poopy.gif)
i think they can make the playoffs with manual.
hell and even in spite of ed wade. he didnt farg up this year as much as last. other than the polanco trade, nothing else really backfired. leiber came as advertised. and we did need urbina (i just wouldnt have given polanco up).
but dancy is the worst 3rd bas coach i have ever seen. i really think he has no depth perception.
Quote from: Wingspan on October 04, 2005, 08:52:56 PM
i think they can make the playoffs with manual.
hell and even in spite of ed wade. he didnt farg up this year as much as last. other than the polanco trade, nothing else really backfired. leiber came as advertised. and we did need urbina (i just wouldnt have given polanco up).
but dancy is the worst 3rd bas coach i have ever seen. i really think he has no depth perception.
Who would you have given up?
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 04, 2005, 08:54:40 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on October 04, 2005, 08:52:56 PM
i think they can make the playoffs with manual.
hell and even in spite of ed wade. he didnt farg up this year as much as last. other than the polanco trade, nothing else really backfired. leiber came as advertised. and we did need urbina (i just wouldnt have given polanco up).
but dancy is the worst 3rd bas coach i have ever seen. i really think he has no depth perception.
Who would you have given up?
good question. i dont know if bell would have been an option. but if they had asked for gavin floyd, i would have done it.
at the time, was urbina needed all that much to give up polanco? who would have been better at third the rest of the season, bell or polanco?
i know you have to give up talent to get talent, though. so it's a tough situation. and i was okay with the trade at the time, figuring there was something else in the making to sure up the 3rd base spot.
Quote from: Avenger on October 04, 2005, 07:33:04 PM
One of the best Philly insiders(Howard) reported that the Phillies are bringing back everyone on the coaching staff.
Since we can assume this is true since Howard reported it
You're joking, right? Sarcasm....right?
Did he really just call that 'tard Eskin one of the best Philly Insiders? Cause I heard Billy Wagner wasn't coming here.......
The last scoop Wolfboy got right was Moses Malone.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 04, 2005, 10:52:09 PM
Quote from: Avenger on October 04, 2005, 07:33:04 PM
One of the best Philly insiders(Howard) reported that the Phillies are bringing back everyone on the coaching staff.
Since we can assume this is true since Howard reported it
You're joking, right? Sarcasm....right?
Somebody drank the Eskin Kool-Aid.
On a Friday early evening (rush hour drive home) the following call took place on Eskin's show.
Caller: I've heard rumors that Billy Wagner might be coming to Philadelphia.
ESkin: That's wrong, tell the one telling you those rumors that I told you it won't happen.
Caller: Why do you say that? I have heard these rumors for a few days now.
Eskin: You're a nitwit. There is no way, and I have the inside information on this, that Billy Wagner will ever be a Phillie.
Caller: But....
Eskin: What don't you understand? The Phillies will NOT be getting Billy Wagner, so enough!
(CLICK...ESKIN HANGS UP)
The next Monday, the Phillies announce Billy Wagner had been signed...and the deal was done on FRIDAY, but they waited until Monday to announce it.
Yeah, he's a real baseball insider.
I guess that is the first time any insider got anything incorrect, right? :-D
Yeah, because that's the only time he's been quoted as having the inside source on something and been wrong.
right.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 04, 2005, 11:11:52 PM
On a Friday early evening (rush hour drive home) the following call took place on Eskin's show.
Caller: I've heard rumors that Billy Wagner might be coming to Philadelphia.
ESkin: That's wrong, tell the one telling you those rumors that I told you it won't happen.
Caller: Why do you say that? I have heard these rumors for a few days now.
Eskin: You're a nitwit. There is no way, and I have the inside information on this, that Billy Wagner will ever be a Phillie.
Caller: But....
Eskin: What don't you understand? The Phillies will NOT be getting Billy Wagner, so enough!
(CLICK...ESKIN HANGS UP)
The next Monday, the Phillies announce Billy Wagner had been signed...and the deal was done on FRIDAY, but they waited until Monday to announce it.
Yeah, he's a real baseball insider.
He swore we getting Miguel Tejada. He is really no different than Eckel.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 04, 2005, 11:19:14 PM
Yeah, because that's the only time he's been quoted as having the inside source on something and been wrong.
right.
I'm not a Howard lover or a hater, but I'm just telling it like it is. For every story he gets wrong he'll get 2 or 3 correct, and on top of that, looking at the local media, there are very few people who break stories that aren't on CSN. CSN has far more resources than Howard does so I value their inside the most, but other than them Howard is the next best.
John Clark doesn't break stories, Vai doesn't break stories, Glen Macnow doesn't break stories, Angelo doesn't break stories, Beasley Reece doesn't break stories.
While he isn't right 100% of the time, he does well as a radio guy breaking stories, and the only reason you don't give him credit is because his arrogance gets to you. The sooner you stop lying to yourself, the better things will become. The constant hating is can get a little irritating after a while.
blah blah go suck on Eskin taint a little more.
Quote from: Avenger on October 05, 2005, 12:56:41 AM
While he isn't right 100% of the time, he does well as a radio guy breaking stories, and the only reason you don't give him credit is because his arrogance gets to you. The sooner you stop lying to yourself, the better things will become. The constant hating is can get a little irritating after a while.
He gets to me? No, I want actual news. He breaks stories? He's on during the perfect time to break stories. End of the day, when deals get done, trades get made, practices are over, games are about to start, etc.
And for you to even mention the word "irritating" without putting "I Know I am" before it is preposterous.
(http://gallery.image4free.com/albums/userpics/11154/image_274780.jpg)
anyone else hear about bobby cox?
apparently he did what he could to kind of "throw" the games against the phillies in the final weeks of the season. not switching when he usually does, or not bringing in the relievers he usually does, or left an inneffective guy in a little "too long"
his thinking was to get the phils to the wild card, so the braves wouldnt have to go up against the astros in round 1. they would have gone vs the padres.
i can see it happening. the only problem was that the phils lost 2 games in sept vs the braves.
well i guess not pinch hitting for tim hudson in the 8th with a guy on 3rd and 1 out now makes sense. But, he couldn't help Manuel takin out Lidle at 60 pitches for Cormier. Thats pure Phillies baseball, baby.
Ed Wade still has a job. :'(
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 05, 2005, 08:22:09 PM
Ed Wade still has a job. :'(
David Montgomery still owns a team :-[
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 05, 2005, 08:22:09 PM
Ed Wade still has a job. :'(
And you guys almost had me convinced that they would fire him. >:(
not from me.
the phils just dont eat contracts. wade's was renewed in august.
there was no reason to think wade wasnt going to be GM through at least the beginning of next year
Good news:
The Phillies will be meeting Billy Wags and his agent, the one and only Bean Stringfellow, next week to start discussions on a contract offer. They hold his rights until 15 days after teh Series.
Bad news:
Edward Wade is the guy doing the negotiating.
Goddammit. Dammit all to hell. I hope that NO ONE renews their season tix so that David Montgomery gets the farging idea.
ed's either going to offer him a 2 year deal at 3 million per year or a 15 year deal at 20 million per year with a no-trade clause
Why the hell has he not been fired yet, or at least Monty saying he's not getting fired so the neccesary Monty goes on DNL and says more things to alianate the fans show happens.
Quote from: MURP on October 05, 2005, 08:52:49 AM
blah blah go suck on Eskin taint a little more.
I just threw up.
A lot.
Thanks.
BTW: If you guys are really busted up about Wade being back, do something about it.
Start calling the Phillies executive offices and ask to speak to Monty. They won't put you through so ask to leave a message. Give him the message. Do the same thing everyday until they fire him. Don't be disrespectful. Don't be an icehole. Simply keep leaving the same message everyday. Also - write letters to the local papers. Send e-mails to Conlin and the other idiots at Philly.com.
If you don't get involved and use the powers of the pen and your voice, you have no reason to bitch about the situation.
PS: Cancelling your season tickets or not going to games is up to you. I think that's stupid because I enjoy going to Phillies games whether they win or lose. But that's up to you.
Edited...
Here is the link to the Phillies e-mail. Use it at will. (http://phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/help/email.jsp?c_id=phi&primarySubject=Other&secondarySubject=None&dest=fanfeedback@phillies.mlb.com)
Also:
Executive Offices (215) 463-6000
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 06, 2005, 11:52:03 AM
BTW: If you guys are really busted up about Wade being back, do something about it.
Start calling the Phillies executive offices and ask to speak to Monty. They won't put you through so ask to leave a message. Give him the message. Do the same thing everyday until they fire him. Don't be disrespectful. Don't be an icehole. Simply keep leaving the same message everyday. Also - write letters to the local papers. Send e-mails to Conlin and the other idiots at Philly.com.
If you don't get involved and use the powers of the pen and your voice, you have no reason to bitch about the situation.
PS: Cancelling your season tickets or not going to games is up to you. I think that's stupid because I enjoy going to Phillies games whether they win or lose. But that's up to you.
i speak by not giving the team any money anymore.
my thoughts are if you give money to the organization willingly, while they are like this, you have no reason to bitch. wallets speak louder than keyboards.
I'm a Phillies fan. Idiotic management aside, I like going to the games. That's the bottom line for me.
BTW: I held my own little protest this year. For the first time in 15 years, I didn't go to a spring training game in Clearwater. Somehow, they got along without me. Imagine that.
;D
Ok thats it. I've pretty much settled on the fact that Ed Wade will be the GM next year. And because of that, I am hereby endorsing that he not make any trades. Why? Because he'll farg it up. Thats why. Abreu, Burrell, Thome, whoever. Whatever he does, even if it looks great on paper (i.e Urbina, ugy and Millwood, Kevin), it'll turn out bad cause Wade just sucks. The solution: Howard in left, Abreu in center, Burrell in right. Sure it sucks defensivley, but half the games are played in a bandbox. The shortstop is a gold glover, he can cover plenty of ground. And, since we play in a little league field, the possiblity of having 5 guys hit 30 homers is too good to pass on. Victorino and Michaels will be on the bench. They can sub in during the late innings. You can give them both starts and move the other players around, giving everyone a chance to stay fresh and healthy for the last two months.
Check out this lineup: Abreu/Rollins/Utley/Thome/Burrell/Howard/3b or c/3b or c
Yea it kicks ass. You put a guy with a .400+ obp batting leadoff, Jimmy in a spot where his free swinging ways wont be as frusturating and then sit back and watch the middle of the order hit a shtein load of homers, and at the same time strikeout a lot. Whatever. Offense first. Defense is for pansies in Oakland. Look how for they go. Nowhere. Boston had crappy defense and they won the world series. They had good pitching, which we need to improve. But that has nothing to do with the lineup. We need to sign one guy to make this a really good rotation. It can be another Lieber. That'll do, probably for another 87 win season. But whatever. Chicks ding the longball. Long live homers and strikeouts. Go Phillies.
Howard "The King" Eskin said today, that league sources told him the reason the Phillies are so quiet about Wade's job is that they are quietly looking for another GM. He said some sources told him a big reason might be that they heard 30% of Phillies season ticket holders sent in letters to not renew if Wade is still the GM next season.
Quote from: Avenger on October 07, 2005, 08:56:52 PM
Howard "The King" Eskin said today, that league sources told him.....
shut the farg up.
You are so cute when you get annoyed
I love you, PhillyGirl :-*
MURP's gonna kick your ass for flirtin with his wife.
He's currently buried in my vomit...don't worry.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 07, 2005, 11:05:15 PM
He's currently buried in my vomit...don't worry.
Huh? What? Ew.
I threw up a lot...from Avenger's post.
Wait, did PG make a joke that someone else didn't get?
Whay hasn't the space time continuum reversed itself?
Down is up! Dogs are marrying cats! Mayday! Mayday!
Wade Fired (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/12866913.htm)
No joke. It happened.
YES!
you should get cash-man.
So, let me get this straight. They fired Wade yet are keeping the bumblefarg manager and his entire staff?
LOL.
Unreal.
Still, good news about Wade. He had to go. Hopefully, they'll ship the rest of the dead wood off along with him.
thank god.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 10, 2005, 02:38:43 PM
So, let me get this straight. They fired Wade yet are keeping the bumblefarg manager and his entire staff?
his hillbilly-speak cracks me up...gotta keep manuel around. :-D
I wonder if PG & MURP are going to re-up their season tickets now?
:-D
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no.
Quote from: MDS on October 10, 2005, 02:35:30 PM
Wade Fired (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/12866913.htm)
No joke. It happened.
YES!
OH MY!
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get that icehole outta here, baby!
they better not make this just a cosmetic move by then giving Wade some consulting job on the side.
If they promote Ruben Amaro Jr, then you know it's just a cosmetic move.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 06, 2005, 11:52:03 AM
BTW: If you guys are really busted up about Wade being back, do something about it.
Start calling the Phillies executive offices and ask to speak to Monty. They won't put you through so ask to leave a message. Give him the message. Do the same thing everyday until they fire him. Don't be disrespectful. Don't be an icehole. Simply keep leaving the same message everyday. Also - write letters to the local papers. Send e-mails to Conlin and the other idiots at Philly.com.
If you don't get involved and use the powers of the pen and your voice, you have no reason to bitch about the situation.
PS: Cancelling your season tickets or not going to games is up to you. I think that's stupid because I enjoy going to Phillies games whether they win or lose. But that's up to you.
Edited...
Here is the link to the Phillies e-mail. Use it at will. (http://phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/help/email.jsp?c_id=phi&primarySubject=Other&secondarySubject=None&dest=fanfeedback@phillies.mlb.com)
I guess it worked.
:-D
now find out how we can get Monty fired.
After yesterdays debacle the firing of Wade was about the only thing that could cheer me up :yay
Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead!
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30/dawkinsdarthcore/wicked20witch20west.jpg)
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 10, 2005, 03:10:12 PM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 06, 2005, 11:52:03 AM
BTW: If you guys are really busted up about Wade being back, do something about it.
Start calling the Phillies executive offices and ask to speak to Monty. They won't put you through so ask to leave a message. Give him the message. Do the same thing everyday until they fire him. Don't be disrespectful. Don't be an icehole. Simply keep leaving the same message everyday. Also - write letters to the local papers. Send e-mails to Conlin and the other idiots at Philly.com.
If you don't get involved and use the powers of the pen and your voice, you have no reason to bitch about the situation.
PS: Cancelling your season tickets or not going to games is up to you. I think that's stupid because I enjoy going to Phillies games whether they win or lose. But that's up to you.
Edited...
Here is the link to the Phillies e-mail. Use it at will. (http://phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/help/email.jsp?c_id=phi&primarySubject=Other&secondarySubject=None&dest=fanfeedback@phillies.mlb.com)
I guess it worked.
:-D
Gargano said that the Phillies received about 10,000 actual letters demanding Wade's head on a stick.
7,438 of them were from MDS.
I sent the pipe bomb.
Press conference at 4pm
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :poison :poison :poison
Romey...lets see who the new GM is and what they do when they get here before making any crazy decisions. ;)
If Monty tries to shove Ruben Amaro Jr. or Mike Arbuckle down our throats I will scream.
Go OUTSIDE the organization, Monty.
Gerry Hunsicker, Brian Cashman or Theo Epstein (if he's not brought back).
Someone other than Amaro or Arbuckle. Please.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 10, 2005, 03:45:01 PM
Romey...lets see who the new GM is and what they do when they get here before making any crazy decisions. ;)
Ahahaha. You heard your husband... no chance.
:-D
I wonder how this affects the Wagner deal? They need to do something quickly before they lose him.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 10, 2005, 03:47:08 PM
If Monty tries to shove Ruben Amaro Jr. or Mike Arbuckle down our throats I will scream.
Go OUTSIDE the organization, Monty.
Gerry Hunsicker, Brian Cashman or Theo Epstein (if he's not brought back).
Someone other than Amaro or Arbuckle. Please.
A band aid simply won't do, Jay. He's going to have to do something spectacular or else he'll look forward to losing another 600,000 (or more) in attendance next year.
It's do or die time.
And we pray...
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 10, 2005, 03:49:30 PM
I wonder how this affects the Wagner deal? They need to do something quickly before they lose him.
Good point. I thought about that too.
They have exclusive rights to him until 15 days after the World Series.
Obviously Pink Slip Eddie can't go meet with Bean & Billy Wednesday now. So I hope ol' Monty called up Wags and told him "Hey, we're shteincanning this loser but we want you to stay".
I love this! Totally put me back in a good mood.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 10, 2005, 03:49:36 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 10, 2005, 03:47:08 PM
If Monty tries to shove Ruben Amaro Jr. or Mike Arbuckle down our throats I will scream.
Go OUTSIDE the organization, Monty.
Gerry Hunsicker, Brian Cashman or Theo Epstein (if he's not brought back).
Someone other than Amaro or Arbuckle. Please.
A band aid simply won't do, Jay. He's going to have to do something spectacular or else he'll look forward to losing another 600,000 (or more) in attendance next year.
It's do or die time.
And we pray...
Hope you're right, bro. Hope you're right.
I agree it is major change time, but I just hope that Monty sees it that way too.
Blow this shtein up! Woohoo!
Is anyone streaming this live?
I know Phillies.com won't. Their multimedia set-up is about as weak as it comes...
WIP will have it, bro.
I'm about to go watch it on CSN..be back in a bit
Some highlights from Montgomery:
- Said that even if they made the playoffs it was not certain that Ed would've been back. He said that he knows he wouldn't have made the decision today obviously but even if they had made it there was no guarantee that Ed would be back.
- Said that the new GM will be able to hire his won manager if he thinks he needs one. Charlie is still the manager until the new GM decides otherwise.
- The new GM will have full control over manager, coaches, players...just like a GM should.
- Said that he (Monty) and Ruben Amaro Jr will still go to Virginia to meet with Billy Wags and try to get him signed.
- Said that the payroll will be "about the same".
- Said that he did listen to the fans because fans are their customers and the input they have does play a part in how he does his job.
- Said Wade took it well and that he will NOT be back with the organization in an ancilliary role. Said that did not seem appropriate.
- He made the decsion this weekend after thinking about it for several weeks.
Quote"We have a manager who did a great job last season."
David Montgomery.
I mean, what else needs to be said about a comment like that? If he really, truly feels that way, then why even bother firing Wade?
Just unbelievable. :-\
Now Wade is talking....
Nothing much but one thing did catch my attention...
He said "I will be back at work tomorrow trying to get ready for the 2006 season".
Huh? If Monty said he will not be in the organization why is he coming back to work?
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 10, 2005, 04:17:39 PM
Quote"We have a manager who did a great job last season."
David Montgomery.
I mean, what else needs to be said about a comment like that? If he really, truly feels that way, then why even bother firing Wade?
Just unbelievable. :-\
Obviously he's not going to blast Manuel publicly.
And I maintain that Charlie has gotten too much heat this year. He's not perfect but he's not the dope that some have made him out to be
He cost them the playoffs. Period.
Wade is an arrogant pissbag who still doesn't get it. You sucked. You didn't get the job done.
GET THE farg OUT OF HERE, icehole.
:boom
Ahahahahahahah!!
Wade is getting all pissy.
"I've earned this job. I earned my 8 years as GM. The sacrifices me and my family made earned me these 8 years".
Scram, jerkoff. Get out of this town, icehole.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 10, 2005, 04:24:39 PM
He cost them the playoffs. Period.
Wade is an arrogant pissbag who still doesn't get it. You sucked. You didn't get the job done.
GET THE farg OUT OF HERE, icehole.
:boom
Just like with the Bowa situation....the players cost them the playoffs, bro. Like I said, Charlie ain't perfect, but if the players win some games against Houston or NY then they are in.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 10, 2005, 03:47:08 PM
Gerry Hunsicker, Brian Cashman or Theo Epstein (if he's not brought back).
I liked Hunsicker when he was the Astros GM.
Quote from: Dillen37 on October 10, 2005, 04:34:37 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 10, 2005, 03:47:08 PM
Gerry Hunsicker, Brian Cashman or Theo Epstein (if he's not brought back).
I liked Hunsicker when he was the Astros GM.
So did I. He made a lot of good moves.
I hope it is him.
I know I said I way back that I wouldn't want Cashman, but I'll take him now. Anyone not named Ed Wade, Ruben Amaro or Mike Arbuckle is who I want. I'm also not too high on this Jim Duquette guy that they were talking about earlier on the radio.
Happy happy joy!!
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 10, 2005, 04:29:20 PM
Ahahahahahahah!!
Wade is getting all pissy.
"I've earned this job. I earned my 8 years as GM. The sacrifices me and my family made earned me these 8 years".
Scram, jerkoff. Get out of this town, icehole.
Sacrifices?
Yeah, you're a regular Mother Theresa, ass munch.
God, I would like to punch him in the ear a lot.
Quote"I think public perception is a big part when you talk about selling," Wade said. "In order to move things forward, if the decision was based on the performance of the club, obviously not getting into postseason is a big role in that, but I also think the fact that I became a lightning rod for criticism for the organization, with me out of the picture, it makes things easier from that respect."
Wah.
Eat. shtein.
This is all on the fans. If it hadn't been for fan pressure I'm pretty sure the team would have stuck with Wade. Monty probably came close to keeping him as it was.
I love how petty the little bookworm got in the press conference.
It's a dead bang axiom that you never, ever, burn bridges on the way out the door, yet that's exactly what that pipsqueak did.
I love it! Let's talk about selling insurance, Ed, because you're fargin done in MLB.
:flipoff (http://www.fireedwade.com/images/edwade.jpg) :flipoff
Wade's a bitch. Shut up. You sucked at your job for 8 years. Go away.
The next GM will be Ruben Amaro Jr. Get used to the idea.
Wade is a terrible GM, but he seems like a nice guy to me. Wade will kick all your asses if you keep talking shtein on him.
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 10, 2005, 07:17:06 PM
The next GM will be Ruben Amaro Jr. Get used to the idea.
I'm in favor of hiring Joe Paterno.
Who's with me?
Marzano on Cataldi's TV show says he's hearing:
Thome & Bell to Seattle
-for-
Adrian Beltre
And that Bobby Abreu will be traded too.
Did he say where Abreu was going?
how exactly does that work out with no GM?
Wait a second... strike that.
Why would they be planning any big moves now? They don't have a GM selected yet. One would think that the new GM would probably like to have a say in the structuring of the club.
*** Unless ***
Amaro, Jr.'s already been given the job.
If that's the case, Bin Laden would be safer in Philly than Dave Montgomery would be at this point...
He said that he was hearing this before Wade got fired. But obviously if Seattle wants Thome and Bell they'll still call back regardless who is the GM. Actually, I think it is more of Seattle wanting to dump that fatass salary of Beltre's. Scott Boras pulled the wool over the eyes of another club.
He didn't say where he heard Abreu was being shopped to. But I think they realize that they need to move either him or Burrell to free up salary to get pitching, C and 3B.
Thome
Bell
Abreu
If those 3 are gone...that is some SERIOUS cash that they will have freed up, guys.
I'd much rather see them move Loserthal than Abreu but I think I'm just stating the obvious on that one.
Maybe Abreu can start playing catcher.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 10, 2005, 07:44:05 PM
He said that he was hearing this before Wade got fired. But obviously if Seattle wants Thome and Bell they'll still call back regardless who is the GM. Actually, I think it is more of Seattle wanting to dump that fatass salary of Beltre's. Scott Boras pulled the wool over the eyes of another club.
He didn't say where he heard Abreu was being shopped to. But I think they realize that they need to move either him or Burrell to free up salary to get pitching, C and 3B.
Thome
Bell
Abreu
If those 3 are gone...that is some SERIOUS cash that they will have freed up, guys.
Thome and Bell for Beltre? I'd do it. I'm not confident that Thome will come back from the back injury to be nearly as productive as his salary commands. And Bell sucks.
Beltre? He's not as good as 2004, but he'll hit 25-35 HRs (probably 25-30) if he can hit 19 at the canyon called Safeco. Can't take a walk to save his life, though (38 BB, 108 Ks, .303 OBP)
First off John Marzano has no connections. He's a dolt.
Second off, the Beltre trade is fine. He is much better than David Bell, and there is no possible way to avoid paying Thome's salary or a salary equal to that.
Third off, as I said, trading Abreu would be extreamly detremental to this team, unless its for an ace.
Beltre would be the #5 RBI option in this lineup. Figure him batting 7th or 6th. In Seattle, he was right up there Sexson. Less pressure, better pitches to hit, smaller ballpark.....he could quite effective, or at least a billion times better than Bell. This would also free up some salary. I'm for the deal, I think its pretty good (a chance to get a superstar if he mirrors what he did in 04, or at worst a .260 hitting 3b that frees up Bells contract and solves the 1b problem).
Again, Marzano=douche with no connections.
Quote from: MDS on October 10, 2005, 08:23:05 PM
First off John Marzano has no connections. He's a dolt.
Second off, the Beltre trade is fine. He is much better than David Bell, and there is no possible way to avoid paying Thome's salary or a salary equal to that.
Third off, as I said, trading Abreu would be extreamly detremental to this team, unless its for an ace.
Beltre would be the #5 RBI option in this lineup. Figure him batting 7th or 6th. In Seattle, he was right up there Sexson. Less pressure, better pitches to hit, smaller ballpark.....he could quite effective, or at least a billion times better than Bell. This would also free up some salary. I'm for the deal, I think its pretty good (a chance to get a superstar if he mirrors what he did in 04, or at worst a .260 hitting 3b that frees up Bells contract and solves the 1b problem).
Again, Marzano=douche with no connections.
how do you know he has no connections? chances are, you don't have a clue.
either way, i don't care, he knows baseball and can talk baseball better than anybody else on tv or radio
What? Are you kidding? Is this an Avenger with Eskin situation or are you just joking?
Quote from: MDS on October 10, 2005, 02:35:30 PM
Wade Fired (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/12866913.htm)
No joke. It happened.
YES!
(http://secrivalsstore.com/hitchcovers/Specialty/Praise%20The%20Lord.jpg)
Johnny Marz annoys me sometimes, but I think he knows a little bit since he hangs around CBP so much.
Best at talking baseball in Philly or overall? In Philly, I would agree. Although Dennis Deitch and Randy Miller are very good too.
Nationally I like Ken Rosenthal and Buster Olney.
MDS,
I was against trading Bobby A, but if there is a market for him, then I do it. I really like him and want him to stay here, but we need an ace and he can fetch you an ace on the market I think.
1. Victorino/Rollins
2. Rollins/ Victorino
3. Utley
4. Burrell
5. Howard
6. Beltre
7. RF
8. C
Quote from: Sgt PSN on October 10, 2005, 08:05:00 PM
I'd much rather see them move Loserthal than Abreu but I think I'm just stating the obvious on that one.
We couldn't trade Mike Lieberthal to the Yomiyuri Giants for a bag of rotten fish guts.
Also, Marz has Seattle connections too. He used to play there and he likes to talk about it all the time when he's name dropping Griffey or ARod into a conversation.
Yea I said that. Abreu for an ace I do. Keep Lofton/Michaels/Victorino sorta platoon for two positions, split up at bats that way. I like it, fine. But thats it. Abreu is so good. Like, can be MVP good. So I want to keep him.
My best best:
1. Victorino
2. Rollins
3. Utley
4. Abreu
5. Burrell
6. Howard
7. Beltre
8. Catcher
Sick lineup.
Thome would never agree to a trade to the northwest...
We'll make him agree.
what's with all the Victorino nob-hobbing? they got the guy via rule 5 draft. that basically means they have the guy's rights if he can make the major league club, if not he goes back to the team that they took him from. well, he couldn't make the big league club out of spring training (Jose Offerman anyone) and then the team who had him (Dodgers i think) didn't even want him back.
he's a september call up and hits one big home run and everybody thinks he can play full-time at the big league level.
for shame....
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 10, 2005, 09:39:47 PM
Thome would never agree to a trade to the northwest...
Maybe he would -- his best friend Richie Sexson plays on the M's.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 10, 2005, 10:53:57 PM
what's with all the Victorino nob-hobbing? they got the guy via rule 5 draft. that basically means they have the guy's rights if he can make the major league club, if not he goes back to the team that they took him from. well, he couldn't make the big league club out of spring training (Jose Offerman anyone) and then the team who had him (Dodgers i think) didn't even want him back.
he's a september call up and hits one big home run and everybody thinks he can play full-time at the big league level.
for shame....
2 big pinch hits and being the player of the year in the international league help his cause turdburgler
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 10, 2005, 10:53:57 PM
what's with all the Victorino nob-hobbing? they got the guy via rule 5 draft. that basically means they have the guy's rights if he can make the major league club, if not he goes back to the team that they took him from. well, he couldn't make the big league club out of spring training (Jose Offerman anyone) and then the team who had him (Dodgers i think) didn't even want him back.
he's a september call up and hits one big home run and everybody thinks he can play full-time at the big league level.
for shame....
Not really suckin him off, but he's going to have a shot to win that CF job and he very well might do that. I don't see Lofton coming back, do you?
It's either Victorino or Roberson. One of them is going to win the job, IMO.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 10, 2005, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on October 10, 2005, 08:05:00 PM
I'd much rather see them move Loserthal than Abreu but I think I'm just stating the obvious on that one.
We couldn't trade Mike Lieberthal to the Yomiyuri Giants for a bag of rotten fish guts.
Have the tried? Because that would be a steal.......
....for the Phillies. ;D
From the Inquirer today:
I want Gerry Hunsicker as the top choice. I hope its him.
QuotePossible candidates to replace Ed Wade
Jim Duquette (Mets)
Duquette is senior vice president of baseball operations for the Mets, after a one-year stint as their general manager in 2003-04 after Steve Phillips was fired in 2003, following several years as an assistant GM. The Mets hired Omar Minaya as GM on Sept. 30, 2004. The Mets went 71-91 in Duquette's only season at the helm.
Gerry Hunsicker (last with Astros)
Gerry Hunsicker, a Mongomery County native and St. Joseph's graduate, was the Houston Astos general manager from November 1995 to November 2004, and was voted The Sporting News Executive of the Year in 1998. Hunsicker helped the Astros win division titles in 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2001 and a wild card berth in 2004.
Theo Epstein (Red Sox)
Epstein, 31, was the youngest GM in baseball history when he was named to that position at age 28 by the Boston Red Sox in November 2002. His contract expires this year, but don't hold your breath. Red Sox ownership is expected to begin negotiations with Epstein as early as today on a new contract, the Boston Herald reported today. Epstein helped assemble rosters that qualified for postseason play in three consecutive seasons for the first time in franchise history.
Brian Cashman (Yankees)
Cashman, the Yankees' GM since 1998, has said little about his plans, but his contract expires at the end of the season. He also is likely to be pursued by other teams such as Baltimore and, perhaps, Washington. But Cashman also was 19 when he joined the Yankees as an intern in their minor league and scouting department in 1986 and he's never worked for another organization.
Mike Arbuckle (Phillies)
Arbuckle is the Asst. GM for scouting and player development. He entered professional baseball as a scout in 1979, took over as the Phillies' scouting director in 1992 before being promoted to his current role in 2000. In January, he finished third in an ESPN.com poll of baseball executives about potential GM candidates.
Ruben Amaro, Jr. (Phillies)
The Phillies Asst. GM is considered a potential candidate for the vacant GM position in Arizona. The Philadelphia native went to Stanford before an eight-year major league career as a utility outfielder, including five years with the Philles.
Chris Antonetti (Indians)
Antonelli, 31, has degrees from Georgetown and UMass and currently is an assistant GM in Cleveland. Another well-educated, well-prepped assistant GM, Antonetti has assisted Mark Shapiro for a couple years, overseeing a rebuilding program that's beginning to bear fruit. The Indians, like the Phillies, were eliminated from postseason consideration on the final day of the season.
Josh Byrnes (Red Sox)
Byrnes, 33, is an Epstein protege in Boston who graduated from Haverford College. he's worked for three different organizations — Cleveland, Colorado and Boston — and was Cleveland's scouting director. He'll be on the short list for a lot of teams.
Wayne Krivsky (Twins)
A strong candidate for the Reds GM job in 2003, Krivsky, 51, has 28 years of professional experience and still is considered top-shelf executive material after negotiating contracts for young stars like Johan Santana, Doug Mientkiewicz and Torii Hunter with the small-market Twins. He previously was the scouting director for the Texas Rangers.
If we can't get Epstein, then Hunsicker is the best alternative.
After last night, Cashman might be available after all. Unbelievable but true. That said, he had resources no one else did and still couldn't buy a Series. :sly
QuotePosted on Tue, Oct. 11, 2005
Bill Conlin | Fans had a voice, and it was heard
THE CUSTOMER is not
always right. But when 580,000 customers all speak with one voice, even wrong
becomes right.
The Ed Wade Era ended
yesterday and the only number that matters is the 580,000-and-change slip in Citizens Bank Park attendance in just the
expensive ballpark's second
season. All that matters is a
significant number of restive fans - said to be in the thousands - who had already
informed the Phillies they were bailing out on 2006.
If money talks, Dave Montgomery just got a $25 million earful and a grim foreshadowing of
another megahit.
The Ed Wade Era ended with limited general partner Montgomery coming down from the mountaintop with a reluctant pink slip for his handpicked
general manager of 8 years,
red-rimmed eyes and a seemingly contradictory, "I believe he has done a good job... ''
The Ed Wade Era ended with the onetime Phillies public-relations department intern lashing out at critics during a bitter rant where he all but said he had been lynched by a small segment of a hostile media.
Asked about the criticism, Wade responded: "I think the personal attacks, obviously... anybody who is in my position and received some of the personal attacks from people who never came to the ballpark, never asked a question, never did an
interview, but yet seemed to know the pulse of the ballclub and have a feel for what I do in my job, people whose frame of reference goes back into the
early '80s and before, and think they know what a 21st century general manager's responsibilities are, obviously that created an environment where attacks became personal, and I did not appreciate it.''
I looked around the media
conference room in the bowels
of the Money Pit. The only one I could find there who went back to the "early '80s and before''
besides me was Phillies PR vice president Larry Shenk. I don't think Wade meant The Baron.
The pulse of the fans came to me unsolicited. After the Phillies folded for the second straight season and Wade fired manager Larry Bowa, I started getting a new kind of e-mail. These were not mindless rants filled with bad grammar and obscenities. These were complaints from a broad spectrum of literate fans upset by the general direction of the ballclub under Wade. Many said they would not renew their season tickets in the wake of Bowa's firing. I began forwarding this long laundry list of
grievances to Shenk and
Montgomery.
Others, involving personnel matters, I sent to Wade. As the offseason lengthened into winter, the e-mail volume increased.
I found myself responding to
upwards of 200 a week. I could no longer keep up with the
avalanche after the interviewing process to hire a new manager ended in the Charlie Manuel
dog-and-pony show. Fans were outraged that ready, willing and able candidate Jim Leyland was passed over for the likable but hardly high-profile batting coach who came to the Phils as an obvious pot-sweetener when Indians protege Jim Thome was signed.
The Phillies never indicated they took this steady drumbeat of fan outrage seriously, choosing to regard it as a small but loud percentage of WIP callers and Internet forum yahoos. But the e-mails never let up. They continued through the season, peaking around the July 31 trade deadline. I did not start the FireEdWade.com Web site, by the way. Nor have I ever visited it. Since Oct. 1, I have answered more than 100 Phillies-related e-mails and was in the process
of replying to a fan dropping out as a season ticketholder after 19 years when word of the 4 p.m. news conference clicked into my mailbox.
Attendance figures backed up the groundswell of fan displeasure, despite a better and healthier team than 2004 and exciting new stars in Chase Utley and
Ryan Howard. The weather was never better for baseball.
For one of the few times in my career, what I wound up writing in many cases was what the fans were all but begging me to write. Anybody with a media forum is vain enough to believe they can influence things. This was one case where the opposite was true. The tail of a very large,
angry dog wagged me.
Ed Wade can make of that
anything he wishes.
The job Montgomery now must fill is a big-time, desirable plum in a major media market. There is a strong nucleus in place and an urgent need to
fine-tune that nucleus with some creative and informed thinking. Montgomery says there is no timetable because he wants to get the right person.
Naturally, there is a built-in Catch-22. Wade plunged into the offseason with the energy and work ethic that marked his stewardship. Nobody ever accused the man of taking a day or a play off. The day after the Phils' elimination from the wild-card race, he announced manager Charlie Manuel and his entire staff will be back. Wade also set up a meeting with closer Billy Wagner for tomorrow in Richmond, Va. Montgomery said he and acting GMs Ruben Amaro Jr. and Mike Arbuckle (both candidates
themselves) would keep the
appointment.
Montgomery gave Manuel a strong endorsement yesterday, adding a shaky caveat that the new GM will have final say on his field staff.
It is hard to imagine a circumstance where possible high-profile candidates such as former Astros GM Gerry Hunsicker
or current Yankees GM Brian
Cashman would agree to inherit somebody else's manager.
Despite Montgomery's assertions that the most difficult decision of his career was prompted by nothing more than eight
seasons without a postseason
appearance, this was a business decision. It was impelled by the specter of a continued money hemorrhage in the Money Pit,
a costly slippage bracketed by
a shaky economy and mutinous fans.
To those giddy over Wade's
firing, I would caution that the new GM will have the Jim
Thome/Ryan Howard dilemma to solve, $70 million in guaranteed contracts next season and one little legacy the outgoing GM failed to mention:
The only team with a higher payroll than the 2005 Phillies to not make the postseason is the Mets.
You got what you asked for. Just don't expect a quick fix.
:-D
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 11, 2005, 07:36:48 AM
Asked about the criticism, Wade responded: "I think the personal attacks, obviously... anybody who is in my position and received some of the personal attacks from people who never came to the ballpark, never asked a question, never did an interview, but yet seemed to know the pulse of the ballclub and have a feel for what I do in my job, people whose frame of reference goes back into the early '80s and before, and think they know what a 21st century general manager's responsibilities are, obviously that created an environment where attacks became personal, and I did not appreciate it.''
Yeah, like...um....
winning?? ::)
Exactly what I thought. Wade was pleased with simply making this team competitive, and thought that he could justify keeping his job from the total crap that was on the field before he got here. The only reason Montgomery made this move was because of the fan pressure. He loves Ed, and didn't think he should be fired after the Phillies missed the playoffs by a game, and the 2nd best record in the NL by 2. But since so many fans, and especially season ticket holders, threatened to jump ship of Slick Ed came back.....he grew a back bone and a set of balls and made the move.
I have no clue who would make the best GM, but figure Hunsicker and Cashman (i presume will be top options) have to be better than Wade. At least they can come in here, size up the roster and realize that Tomas P. sucks and has no business playing major league ball. I hope. Nobody but Wade can be that dumb, even Manuel got the memo by september.
I gave him a pass for the first 4 years because the Phillies were horrendous. However, he was partly responsible for that mess because he worked directly under Lee Thomas as his assistant GM.
That said, when the payroll was increased in 2001 and he was given another three years to get to the playoffs and didn't make it, his excuses ran out.
Given the fact that he's now whining about being picked on by the media and fans, it's pretty clear he was never up to the task of running a major league team, much less one in a major market like Philly.
Good luck running the A.C. Surf because that's about the extent of his future in baseball.
the Twins and Athletics managed to have playoff ballclubs with low payrolls, i don't give Wade a pass on that...
as for the new GM, I'm almost tempted to go with one of the young guys. Hunsicker sounds promising, but he's just another recycled GM. it might be beneficial to just get a young guy with fresh ideas
I vote for MDS. Or Antonetti, anyone with such a successful farm program intrigues me.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/BellaDaisy22/350onlyretards.gif)
At first I thought that was something about Billy Wagner.
http://www.fireedwade.com/
lololol
thats farging great
they shouldve done they celebrate good times song
Why did Hunsicker leave the Astros?
From what I recall him and McClain had issues over payroll.
Haha!! Howard wants Piniella. ::)
Quote from: The Waco Kid on October 11, 2005, 05:09:16 PM
Haha!! Howard wants Piniella. ::)
You listen, you deserve to hear his idiocy.
whats wrong with pinella...he would be great...hes larry bowa except with the ability to manage the game properly
hes worse than bowa. the players are total vadges. burrell would cry home to mommy when big bad lou gets in his face.
If they get a real GM in there, and a player starts crying about Piniella, then send him packing his bags. I hate Burrell anyway. Everyone talks about how unclutch Abreu is, Burrell is that ten fold. On top of that Burrell is a sensitive nancy boy. I remember last year when Burrell made a nice play and Bowa wanted to congratulate him and Burrell snubbed him.
Poor Pat, were you feelings hurt?
Wagner to meet with Mony and Amaro Jr tomorrow at Bean Stringfellow's office.
Thats an awsome name.
Get Wagner!!
Randy Miller says that Gerry Hunsicker is the front-runner and Burrell & Bell to ARZ for Glaus?!? (http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/102-10122005-554046.html)
QuotePhillies president David Montgomery drove to work Tuesday morning to begin a general manager search that figures to last several weeks even though former Houston Astros GM Gerry Hunsicker has emerged as a strong favorite to land Ed Wade's old job.
Phillies insiders say Montgomery is nervous about his own security for the first time and thus is intent on hiring a big name.
Hunsicker fits the mold as he built five playoff teams in nine seasons as Astros GM from 1996-2004. Better yet, the Phillies often operate like they're a family, and Hunsicker is a Collegeville native and Saint Joseph's alum.
Reached at his suburban Houston home on Tuesday, Hunsicker declined to comment on his chances. However, he is believed to be as interested in working for the Phillies as they are in him replacing Wade, who was fired on Monday after eight non-playoff seasons
QuoteA Yankees source said Cashman is interested in the Phillies' job, but prefers to land in Washington, which is expected to be in the market for a GM after the expected sale of the team this offseason.
QuoteToday, Montgomery and Amaro will head to Richmond to meet with Wagner and agent Bean Stringfellow, and it appears the Phillies finally are prepared to do everything it takes to work out a deal this week because they fear more fan backlash if the sides part ways
QuoteAlso, Montgomery, Amaro and Arbuckle may have preliminary talks about possibly dealing left fielder Pat Burrell and/or right fielder Bobby Abreu before spring training. The new GM ultimately will work out any deal, but some higher-ups believe the time is right to break up the core of the team. Early speculation has the Phillies eventually offering Burrell and third baseman David Bell to Arizona for a package that includes star third baseman Troy Glaus
QuoteIf the Phillies opt to deal Thome, who has a no-trade clause, they seem aware that they'll get little in return and be forced to eat about $30 million of the guaranteed $45 million remaining on his contract
Burrell & Bell for Glaus? Hmmm.....I kinda like that.
And GET HUNSICKER!!
Just say NO to Jim Duquette! He's the MORON who traded Scott Kazmir to TB for Victor f'ing Zambrano.
Burrell & Bell for Glaus? Hmmm.....I kinda like that
i love it...glaus and burrell are the same age as well...i always thought glaus was older
don't Burrell and Abreu have no-trades as well?
Wade was giving them out like candy at Halloween
yeah they do...but burrell would give up his first born to get out of city like philly into a milquetropolis like phoenix...
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 12, 2005, 09:24:56 AM
yeah they do...but burrell would give up his first born to get out of city like philly into a milquetropolis like phoenix...
teriffic
milquetropolis?
Funney.
:yay
Burrell would kill himself out in AZ. He loves the city life here.
But he might have screwed just about every girl in the city, so it might be time for him to leave anyway.
Burrell would kill himself out in AZ. He loves the city life here.
But he might have screwed just about every girl in the city, so it might be time for him to leave anyway.
im pretty sure its pink on the inside in arizona too...anyway theres more hot girls in one dorm at UA than in the entire delaware valley
I think Pat has a house in Arizona though.
My only concern about Glaus is that, if I recall correctly, he essentially quit on the Angels a couple of years ago. He hurt his shoulder and put himself out for the season and that rankled a lot of people in Anaheim.
he'd fit right in here then.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 12, 2005, 09:32:11 AM
Burrell would kill himself out in AZ. He loves the city life here.
But he might have screwed just about every girl in the city, so it might be time for him to leave anyway.
im pretty sure its pink on the inside in arizona too...anyway theres more hot girls in one dorm at UA than in the entire delaware valley
Truth. And I haven't even been to UA, I'm basing my opinion entirely on the Delaware Valley.
Glaus is okay, but I figure this trade is to free up Ryan Howard to play left?
Burrell's former agent is now the D'Backs owner...
Quote from: MDS on October 12, 2005, 10:08:10 AM
Glaus is okay, but I figure this trade is to free up Ryan Howard to play left?
yup
SS Rollins
2B Utley
RF Abreu
3B Glaus
LF Howard
1B Thome
CF Michaels/Victorino
C Lieberthal
:evil
please eat Lieberthals contract and get rid of him. thanks.
please someone just eat leiberthal
Let's throw him into the sun.
rather than his 200 pancakes with a side of cow perhaps hollis' next pre game meal could just be lieby
Why not? It has the added value of being 100% approved Kosher, in case Hollis ever wants to convert.
QuotePosted on Sun, Oct. 09, 2005
Inqlings | Phillie facing civil suit in fight
By Michael Klein
Inquirer Columnist
A civil lawsuit is in the works against Phillies outfielder Jason Michaels by the Philly cop he's accused of beating up three months ago after a night on the town.
A lawyer for Officer Timothy Taylor, 25, has filed a writ in Common Pleas Court, an indication that an assault-and-battery suit is forthcoming against Michaels, 29.
Michaels, whose off-season home is in Tampa, Fla., also faces a Dec. 15 hearing on criminal charges related to the incident.
About 3 a.m. on July 3, police said, Michaels and other people near the nightclub 32º were asked to disperse. Michaels, a burly 6-footer, refused. Police said he went after Taylor, wrestling him to the ground and ripping his shirt. Michaels, subdued by other officers, spent nine hours in custody. He was charged with aggravated assault on a police officer, simple assault, and reckless endangerment.
Taylor, a four-year vet assigned to the Fifth District in Northwest Philly, suffered unspecified injuries and has not worked since the incident, a police spokesman said. He is due back soon and is expected to be on restricted duty, police said.
Michaels reported to the ballpark for that day's game but did not play. In his next game, July 4, he went 2-for-4 against the Pirates. For the rest of the season, Michaels endured cold stares from police working at Citizens Bank Park.
Michaels, whose bio lists his interests as working out, bottle-cap baseball, and spear fishing, made $825,000 last season, his fifth as a big-leaguer.
Taylor's lawyer, James E. Colleran, did not return a call seeking elaboration or a description of the lawsuit. Michaels' lawyer, Barnaby Wittels, declined comment.
It's not unusual for a cop to file a civil suit over an on-the-job incident. Philly officer Thomas K. O'Neill sued radio station WIOQ-FM (102.1) in 2003 concerning a prank in which O'Neill's voice was heard on the air as he questioned morning-show jokester Diego Ramos, who'd skipped out on his bill at an IHOP. The District Attorney's Office decided not to file criminal charges, but O'Neill was awarded an undisclosed out-of-court settlement from station owner Clear Channel Communications.
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 12, 2005, 10:11:54 AM
Quote from: MDS on October 12, 2005, 10:08:10 AM
Glaus is okay, but I figure this trade is to free up Ryan Howard to play left?
yup
SS Rollins
2B Utley
RF Abreu
3B Glaus
LF Howard
1B Thome
CF Michaels/Victorino
C Lieberthal
:evil
eww that sucks, glaus hits like .260
abreu-rollins-utley-thome-glaus-howard-victorino-loser
In my grandfather's day, if someone laid a hand on a Philly cop, they'd either end up in a hospital or cemetary.
Instead of handling it like that, this guy takes Michaels to court for money.
How sweet.
:puke
glaus was 5th in the NL in striking out...don't the sils already have enough of those guys?
Quote from: mhunt on October 12, 2005, 12:22:35 PM
glaus was 5th in the NL in striking out...don't the sils already have enough of those guys?
we could just up the payroll to $205 million
Quote from: MDS on October 12, 2005, 12:29:19 PM
Quote from: mhunt on October 12, 2005, 12:22:35 PM
glaus was 5th in the NL in striking out...don't the sils already have enough of those guys?
we could just up the payroll to $205 million
well, the sils are already the 2nd highest payroll in the NL... :-D
and we had the 2nd most strikeouts in baseball.....but the top 10 teams for strikeouts in baseball were the 8 playoff teams, the phillies and some other team i forget. but striking out doesnt matter.
Getting Glaus and dumping Burrell? Any Phillies fan should adore that rumor. No one needs Burrell's bitching, whining and choking anymore.
Phillies should go after Manny in a trade with Abreu. Get a real hitter in this town.
Glaus hasn't been healthy 2 of the past 3 years. That would give significant health concers at third and first. But when healthy, Glaus is going to hit .255 with 30 homers and 100 rbis. He's been piss poor with RISP and with runners on. Burrell, on the other hand, had 120 rbis for a reason.
I am not for making a move just for the sake of making a move. I don't know why everyone is clammering for a change in the lineup, when scoring runs was not this teams problem. Yes, the lack of clutch hits was. But who are you going to find that can make up for Burrell's or Abreu's production and at the same time hit in the clutch. Yea, no one. Utley and Howard are our money guys in the clutch. Abreu looks for walks. Burrell just invents ways to get out. But Burrell did have a fantastic season, and somehow, that has been forgetten because he had a bad two games against the Mets.
This team didn't make the playoffs because of the everyday lineup. Well, at least the middle of the order. Jimmy Rollins inconsistency, David Bell and Mike Liberthal didn't help, but overall the lineup was fine. It was getting to Billy Wagner, the bench and the constant problems with starting pitching (enigma known as Padilla, Lieber being awful for two months, Brito and Floyd having to start games). Many of those things could have been fixed with proper managing and smart general managing. Well, we didnt have either.
But that can change with getting someone with half a brain in here. If Manuel stays or goes, whatever. There are too many guaranteed unmoveable contracts on this team, so the core of whiny soft douches will remain. Manuel worked well with them. So keep him. Manuel's game moves did improve as the year went on, maybe he learned. Bringing someone else in here, and we could start all over again with the awful in game decisions.
As I said, this team isnt too far away. A change at third or catcher (can live with one of them, not both), another quality start pitcher, and then overhauls to the bullpen and bench. Thats it. With that, this team can win. They dont need to trade Abreu or Burrell just for the sake of changing things up. While it could spark something, I dont think its a must.
Utley is God...that's all you need to say about this offseason.
(http://images.art.com/images/products/regular/10103000/10103647.jpg)
:'(
Mitch Fargin Williams! :boom :'(
Quote from: The Waco Kid on October 12, 2005, 08:34:30 PM
Mitch Fargin Williams! :boom :'(
I think we've discussed this on here before, but that was all on Fregosi. Williams was so obviously out of gas that he was throwing batting practice. He should not have been used at that point- he just had nothing left. Instead of 95+, he was throwing about 85.
Now, the harder question may have been: who to put in that situation instead.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on October 12, 2005, 08:36:16 PM
Quote from: The Waco Kid on October 12, 2005, 08:34:30 PM
Mitch Fargin Williams! :boom :'(
I think we've discussed this on here before, but that was all on Fregosi. Williams was so obviously out of gas that he was throwing batting practice. He should not have been used at that point- he just had nothing left. Instead of 95+, he was throwing about 85.
Now, the harder question may have been: who to put in that situation instead.
I know Williams was the logical choice since he had been our closer all year, so I won't second guess Fregosi's decision (even over a decade later). However, Roger Mason came in as middle relief and was mowing 'em down. I think he had two consecutive 3 up and 3 down innings followed by the West/Anderson duo who also pitched scoreless innings. :)
It's still nice to have Mitch Fargin Williams as the scapegoat. It's kinda like Aaron Fargin Boone.
Quote from: The Waco Kid on October 12, 2005, 09:19:14 PM
It's still nice to have Mitch Fargin Williams as the scapegoat. It's kinda like Aaron Fargin Boone.
That was one of the most painful sports moments of my life. Thinking that the Phils would force game 7, have a real chance of actually winning the Series outright, and BAM! Game, series, season over.
I was just glad that if it had to happen, it was Joe Carter. If it was Rickey Henderson, we'd still be hearing him go on about it.
hunt...how did it feel blowing a 3-0 lead in the ALCS to the Red Sox?
stfu.
QuotePhils determined to close Wagner deal
Daily News Staff Reports
David Montgomery and Ruben Amaro Jr. brought this back from Richmond, Va.:
Billy Wagner is serious.
Their message to their fans: So are we.
Wagner, who can become a free agent next month, wants $29 million over three seasons with a no-trade clause. It is believed that the Phillies' best offer before they arranged yesterday's meeting in the offices of Wagner's agent was 2 years with a team option for a third, a deal whose maximum value would be $24 million, with limited no-trade provisions.
"We made a proposal," said Amaro, the Phillies' assistant general manager who is handling negotiations after Montgomery, the team president, fired GM Ed Wade on Monday.
Wagner's response?
"Billy's a confident guy," Amaro said, then allowed, "We have some ground to cover, as far as what Billy wants. We'll be proactive in doing that."
Which means, it appears, that Wagner hasn't budged but the Phillies have. And they know they might have to budge some more. Wagner has been insistent that he needs to make at least as much per year as the $9 million he made last season in order to return to hitter-friendly Citizens Bank Park. Before Montgomery fired Wade, the Phillies told Wagner he was overvaluing himself.
Wagner, 34, and Bean Stringfellow, his agent, did not return messages left yesterday by the Daily News but, in an interview with Comcast SportsNet, Wagner described the meeting as "kind of refreshing.''
"We got to sit down with no stress of a game to play that day,'' he said.
"I think it's definitely going to be an ongoing process, but it was a positive start.
"Both sides were listening. They did a lot more listening, which is good. It's obvious they want to do the best they can, and there's give and take on both sides.
"I think today was a good move forward.''
One of the possible issues with Wagner is the team's lack of a general manager, which could affect the manager, coaching staff and composition of the club. Asked if that was a point of contention for Wagner, Amaro replied, "We didn't glean that."
What they did glean is that Wagner is willing to test the market, especially with the well-heeled Red Sox, Mets and Braves possibly needing closers in 2006. Which is why the Phillies don't want him hitting that market.
Amaro stressed this more than anything else: "This remains a priority for us."
Hunsicker update
League sources indicated that heavyweight GM candidate Gerry Hunsicker was scheduled to interview today for a front-office spot in Tampa Bay. Hunsicker is considered a favorite for the Phillies' vacant position.
The Phillies are expected to begin winnowing their candidate list today when their remaining brain trust meets with David Montgomery. However, the team is believed to have contacted Hunsicker to indicate its interest in the Collegeville, Pa., native, who built the Astros team that began its second straight NLCS last night.
Transactions
The Phillies have announced the following player transactions:
• Righthanded pitchers Keith Bucktrot, Francisco Butto and Edwin Moreno and catcher A.J. Hinch have been outrighted to Triple A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Hinch has opted for free agency.
• Righthanded pitcher Yoel Hernandez had his contract purchased from Scranton/Wilkes-Barre and has been added to the 40-man roster.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 13, 2005, 08:05:29 AM
hunt...how did it feel blowing a 3-0 lead in the ALCS to the Red Sox?
stfu.
i didn't blow the lead...i'm not on the team...duh. ::)
make the playoffs...PLEASE! :-D
The more I read about Troy Glaus, the more I change my mind on wanting him. I read in SportsWeekly that the reason ARZ is looking to dump him is because he has poor work ethic and has a poor attitude.
Sounds like he'll fit right in.
The more I read about Troy Glaus, the more I change my mind on wanting him. I read in SportsWeekly that the reason ARZ is looking to dump him is because he has poor work ethic and has a poor attitude
so hes burrell at third
i want burrell out for no other reason than if i see him strike out looking one more time i might go back on dust....and i dont wanna start smoking dust again
I'd almost prefer to see them trade Abreu for a starting pitcher. I love Bobby A, but they've got to shake it up. And not trade a RH for another RH. They need to get rid of some of the LH heavy lineup. And they need a #1 SP.
I like the Thome/Bell to SEA for Beltre deal better - if true.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 13, 2005, 08:43:53 AM
The more I read about Troy Glaus, the more I change my mind on wanting him. I read in SportsWeekly that the reason ARZ is looking to dump him is because he has poor work ethic and has a poor attitude
so hes burrell at third
i want burrell out for no other reason than if i see him strike out looking one more time i might go back on dust....and i dont wanna start smoking dust again
i agree completely. maybe once in awhile, instead of trying to buy a walk by lifting his arms at any pitch near the inside corner, he could turn on one of those babies be the slugger he's paid to be.
And they need a #1 SP
thats by far number one...it would put everyone is their rightful slots as far as the rotation goes...i almost wanna say they would have won the divison with a legit #1 this year...but they absolutely would have won the wc
Yep...I like Lieber, but he's a #2. But he's clutch, which is good.
1. what we need
2. Lieber
3. Myers
4. Wolf (when healthy)
5. Lidle
And if they do get that #1 then they can either experiment with Padilla as a reliever again or trade him and Gavin Floyd for a 3B or C.
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1129282654204760.xml&coll=2
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spyanks144468936oct14,0,1115397.story?coll=ny-sports-print
QuoteHunsicker may have other offers
By: RANDY MILLER (Fri, Oct/14/2005)
Gerry Hunsicker spent his Thursday afternoon on the links. Golf has a way of making one forget more important matters of the mind.
In the coming days, the highly respected former Houston Astros general manager could have one whale of a decision to make.
It's believed following Ed Wade as Phillies GM would be a dream job for Hunsicker, but the interviewing process isn't expected to begin until next week - around the same time he'll be in St. Petersburg, Fla., selling himself to the Tampa Bay Devils Rays.
Even the Devil Rays aren't sure yet whether Hunsicker will interview next Tuesday for their open GM job or a senior front office position that would make him a mentor to Andrew Friedman, a 28-year-old Rays baseball operations chief who has no baseball background but is close to new owner Stuart Sternberg.
What does Hunsicker do if the Devil Rays offer the GM job next week?
For now, he doesn't have to make that decision.
On Thursday, Hunsicker again politely refused comment, possibly because he doesn't want to say anything that will hurt his chances to land the Phillies' job.
According to team sources, Phillies president David Montgomery still is sorting through candidates with a small brass group that is headed by special GM assistant John Vukovich.
Montgomery and Vukovich are believed to have met on Thursday to discuss filling a position that became vacant when Wade was fired last Monday.
Montgomery received a strong vote of confidence for Hunsicker while having contract negotiations Wednesday in Richmond, Va., with All-Star closer Billy Wagner.
Wagner repeatedly endorsed Hunsicker, his GM in Houston from 1996-2003.
"I think Gerry is very good," Wagner said. "He's approachable, and I think he'll do what it takes. I think if you don't tie his hands :-D, he'll put a playoff team out there in Philly. I hope he gets the job."
Montgomery isn't providing clues, but it's believed he's desperate to find a big name with a strong track record.
Besides Hunsicker, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman and possibly former Mets GM Jim Duquette could be good fits.
Cashman, however, has yet to prove he can win with a budget, and he has no background in farm systems like Hunsicker. Duquette has some success in New York, but nowhere near that of Hunsicker, who led Houston to five playoff appearances in nine seasons.
Another name that has surfaced is former Boston GM Dan Duquette, Jim's cousin. A published report mentioned Dan Duquette recently having lunch with fellow Amherst alum and Phillies minority owner John Middleton.
It's believed that Dan Duquette asked to be considered for GM when and if Wade was canned, but a team source says that's very unlikely. However, it is possible that he could join the Phillies in a significant capacity down the road.
Wags might hate us fans, but I luv me sum him.
yeah..i just loooved when wagner went and cried about the fans on television and then immediately followed up with 2 9th inning collapses vs the astros. yay!
I'll never understand that when a players gives the fans a shot back some people are incredulous that an athlete will talk back. It's like an "oh, how dare he say that about us" attitude that I find interesting.
I don't deny that some players deserved the boos. But when a guy speaks his mind about it he's ripped for speaking his mind.
What about the incident where Utley went after a fan in the front row behind the dugout because the fan was riding Bobby Abreu all game and being totally ridiculous? I like that. And especially coming from Utley, the golden boy here.
Like Wags, Utley was sticking up for his teammate(s).
Utley is one of us, Phreak.
Wagner's one of them.
Simple as that.
I'm confused. Who's them? :paranoid
I'm confused. Who's them?
those guys with the funny hats in the 'loyal order of the buffalos'
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 14, 2005, 09:40:43 AM
I'll never understand that when a players gives the fans a shot back some people are incredulous that an athlete will talk back. It's like an "oh, how dare he say that about us" attitude that I find interesting.
I don't deny that some players deserved the boos. But when a guy speaks his mind about it he's ripped for speaking his mind.
What about the incident where Utley went after a fan in the front row behind the dugout because the fan was riding Bobby Abreu all game and being totally ridiculous? I like that. And especially coming from Utley, the golden boy here.
Like Wags, Utley was sticking up for his teammate(s).
hey now, i agreed with what wagner said. but it isnt gonna stop me from booing. but it would have helped wagners case had he backed up his own words.
What I meant was, Utley is a scrapper, he's a home-grown product, he's blue collar down to the three day scruff on his face. He's Philly and when he talks shtein to the fans as he did, it's like a member of your own family getting on your ass over something.
Conversely, Wagner is a mercenary who was brought in from Houston talking shtein for big bucks. He's never taken to Philly or its fans, IMO, and I'm frankly shocked that he'd even consider re-signing with the Phillies.
That's just my impression from watching him play and listening to the asinine comments he's made over the past two years concerning the fans, the ballpark and the city in general.
when did Utely talk shtein, i don't remember that.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 14, 2005, 10:01:53 AM
What I meant was, Utley is a scrapper, he's a home-grown product, he's blue collar down to the three day scruff on his face. He's Philly and when he talks shtein to the fans as he did, it's like a member of your own family getting on your ass over something.
Conversely, Wagner is a mercenary who was brought in from Houston talking shtein for big bucks. He's never taken to Philly or its fans, IMO, and I'm frankly shocked that he'd even consider re-signing with the Phillies.
That's just my impression from watching him play and listening to the asinine comments he's made over the past two years concerning the fans, the ballpark and the city in general.
hes from california
hes from california
lol...exactly...i never associate philly with so cal
i love utley but hes not philly and i dont just mean from philly because i realize romey is saying his style of play is philly...but hes no more philly than david bell or randy wolf...hes just a better player than either so people like him...david bell busts his ass just as much if not more than utley the difference is he sucks...utley is a great player and thats why people like him...not cause hes 'philly'
the philly media for some reason created this rocky like image for utley one day and since then the fans...looking for soemthing to grasp onto with the phils...have run with it...
The Philly media is desirous to see a white 2nd baseman succeed.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 14, 2005, 10:04:03 AM
when did Utely talk shtein, i don't remember that.
A couple of fans brought it up on WIP one night right after a game and then I think a beat writer or two caught on to it. I believe it was Randy Miller I heard mention it again the other day. Apparently a fan was riding Bobby A all game long and after he made an out the fan was still chirping at him ala Eskin. So Utley goes over to the fan and has a few choice words with him and another player (don't recall who) had to go tell Utley to chill.
I'm in the stairway today, and as this kid is walking down, he says "yea, they gotta trade abreu. or burrell" I just wanted to yell "you idiot, we cant trade abreu unless its for an ace!!!!"
i are awsum
Way to lay the smack down, bro. Keep up the good work. :yay
Quote from: MDS on October 14, 2005, 07:30:32 PM
I'm in the stairway today, and as this kid is walking down, he says "yea, they gotta trade abreu. or burrell" I just wanted to yell "you idiot, we cant trade abreu unless its for an ace!!!!"
i are awsum
yeah, you don't want to give up bad defense, .300 average and 120+ strikeouts unless it's for Sandy Koufax
you are the wrong
Quote from: MDS on October 14, 2005, 07:30:32 PM
I just wanted to yell "you idiot, we cant trade abreu unless its for an ace!!!!"
i are awsum
So, you stood there and kept your Hoyda mouth closed, right?
u are teh ghey
QuotePhillies Notes Amaro will interview with O's
By Todd Zolecki
Inquirer Staff Writer
HOUSTON - Houston Astros general manager Tim Purpura said Thursday that Ruben Amaro Jr. should be a candidate for every general manager's vacancy in baseball.
Well, he's a candidate for at least two jobs so far.
Amaro is a candidate for the Phillies' job, and a baseball source said yesterday that he will interview for a senior front-office position with the Baltimore Orioles today. It's unclear exactly what the position will be, but it clearly would be a promotion for Amaro, who has been assistant GM with the Phillies since 1998.
The Orioles have had a dual-GM partnership in recent seasons with Jim Beattie and Mike Flanagan. But Beattie is no longer with the organization, and Flanagan replaced Beattie as the executive vice president of baseball operations. New York Mets senior vice president Jim Duquette, also considered a potential candidate for the Phillies' job, interviewed with Flanagan on Thursday.
Amaro couldn't be reached for comment.
Bringing back Billy. Billy Wagner's agent, Bean Stringfellow, said yesterday that, while he was encouraged with their meeting with the Phillies on Wednesday, ground still needs to be made up in a few areas, not just in the total compensation for the deal.
Wagner is believed to be seeking a three-year deal for at least $27 million and a complete no-trade clause. The Phillies have upped their offer to three years but have come up short in terms of dollars.
Stringfellow said Wagner is curious to see what the free-agent market might hold for him. Several East Coast teams could be looking for closers, including Boston, Atlanta and the New York Mets - and they are prepared to wait. But they also expect the Phillies to make another offer in the near future.
So not only does Monty do the stupid thing in trying to re-sign Wagner before he hires a GM, he gets turned down again?
If it wasn't so tragic it would be comical.
:'( :-D
the only ass busting David Bell does is a stinky fart.
Randy Miller = NOT an Ed Wade fan....lmfao :-D :-D :-D :-D
QuoteBehind the scenes with Ed Wade
Ed Wade screamed and cursed for several minutes, then picked up a chair in Charlie Manuel's office and whipped it across the room.
BAM!
The chair smashed into a wall halfway between the ceiling and the floor. Two legs and chunks of wood littered the area.
Manuel watched the scene and kind of nodded his head as if to say, "OK, now what?"
This fit being thrown by a grown man was aimed toward to the scribe sitting across from Manuel's desk. I quietly watched in stunned amazement when the Phillies' since-ousted general manager showed off a hot temper that some team insiders suggest is legendary.
His reason for such behavior following a 6-3 Phillies victory over Atlanta on July 2?
Wade blamed it on hearing that I had told assistant GM Mike Arbuckle that pitching prospect Cole Hamels would be coming up from Class-A Clearwater to replace injured starter Randy Wolf in the rotation.
Not true, I told Wade.
That morning, Manuel did mention Hamels was an option. I phoned Arbuckle about something else, mentioned Manuel's comments and Arbuckle later called Wade to say: "If Charlie is thinking about Hamels coming up, we need to remind him that he's still in A-ball."
In a recurring theme from an eight-year tenure that had a forced ending last Monday, Wade somehow got the facts all wrong.
Manuel acknowledged talking about Hamels, Arbuckle was called, but Wade couldn't admit a mistake ... because what he really was mad about was a story that ran in the Courier Times two months earlier, one that mentioned Wade's job security not being so good and highly respected former Houston GM Gerry Hunsicker being on the Phillies' radar.
I never said another word to Wade since that unprofessional blowup, which was no one-time tantrum.
Late this summer, Wade repeatedly chewed out closer Billy Wagner - sometimes in person, sometimes over the phone - for comments he read in the newspaper and during contract negotiations. Wagner took this verbal abuse for a while, then got fed up and began hanging up on Wade.
Years earlier, Wade called a team meeting to scream at players. One pitcher said everyone buried their heads in their arms so Wade couldn't see them laughing at him.
Two springs ago, Wade was furious at Phillies beat writers, called a morning meeting and cursed for about 20 minutes. I still have the tape from that one. You should hear it. It's something else, right out of the Lee Elia school of bleeps. He got personal. Ask Philadelphia Daily News baseball writer Marcus Hayes, who remained calm as his character was assassinated and he was being called an officious [bleep]."
On a Sunday in July 2004, the day Eric Milton flirted with a no-hitter, Wade lost it in front of the Phillies dugout when Philadelphia Inquirer reporter Sam Carchidi asked him if "there were any trade developments." Carchidi, who does not cover the team regularly, was told with anger: "If you were here everyday, you would know." Wade ended the shouting match by saying, "Kiss my [bleeping bleep], Sam."
Dozens of early arriving children watched the entire incident from behind the Phillies dugout.
When announcing the firing, team president David Montgomery called Wade a man of character. Talk to others in the organization with the tape reporters off and notebooks away and you'll hear more stories of Wade's hot temper and how he often big-leagued team employees.
Wade couldn't even go out in style. While speaking to the media following his dismissal, he constantly vented. Without naming names, he blasted Daily News columnist Bill Conlin and other media members who didn't deserve his respect.
Right back at you, Ed.
This isn't about kicking a man when he's down. It's about shedding some truth about the Wade era.
No one doubts that Wade was a workaholic. He put in his time and was prepared.
But people inside and outside the organization talked about his smug personality, which is surprising considering he began his baseball career in public relations.
In short, the legions of fans who despised Wade not just because of his GM ability were on to something. Trust me, some Phillies employees and many media members grew sick of his antics long ago.
That's why when Wade made enough baseball mistakes to warrant a firing, the local media went after him.
But, Wade deserved his firing. For all his hard work, he was accused of not knowing his own team, let alone the 29 others in baseball.
One time when Wade made a judgment on a young Phillies player, a uniformed employee called writers over and said, "Did you hear, Eddie thinks he's a baseball guy now?" Everyone laughed.
When third baseman Scott Rolen was telling teammates, opposing players and Phillies beat writers there was no way he'd sign a contract extension with the team, Wade was out of the loop. A good GM finds out the real deal.
Wade also misread Curt Schilling, Placido Polanco, Larry Bowa ... the list goes on and on.
One of the worst-kept secrets in baseball was the work habits of a longtime Phillies major-league scout who had a reputation for leaving games in the seventh and eighth inning. Advance scouts are the eyes and ears of general managers. They feed info when trade talks start up. If Wade knew about the in-house problem, he didn't address it - not until making a change after the 2005 season, when his own job wasn't safe.
Wade is gone, and Phillies fans are right on when saying, "Good riddance."
(http://www.sanjuanislander.com/images/fire/orcas/10-29-02/elan/roof.jpg)
:-D
:-D Awsome article. Screw you Wade!!
Holy shtein, I knew he was a freak but I didn't realize the extent of it :-D
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 16, 2005, 11:13:50 AM
Holy shtein, I knew he was a freak but I didn't realize the extent of it :-D
Tell me about it. I always thought he was a smug and arrogant s.o.b but after reading that article I'm convinced that I've grossly underestimated him.
Harry K and Randy Miller were on Angelo's TV show tonight and both said Hunsicker will probably be the new GM. Randarino says "the fans will like him"... :-\
Yay Hunsicker. :yay
I want no part of either of the Duquettes being mentioned. Both of them are nitwits.
The fans would like Hillary Clinton as the GM if she brought us a friggen World Series title.
Well, okay... bad example but you get the idea.
:D
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 18, 2005, 12:31:52 AM
Harry K and Randy Miller were on Angelo's TV show tonight and both said Hunsicker will probably be the new GM. Randarino says "the fans will like him"... :-\
why the :-\ face?
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 18, 2005, 08:21:17 AM
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 18, 2005, 12:31:52 AM
Harry K and Randy Miller were on Angelo's TV show tonight and both said Hunsicker will probably be the new GM. Randarino says "the fans will like him"... :-\
why the :-\ face?
biged has no smiley etiquette, i think he just randomly clicks them :poison
:-D
Nah, I guess I'm hoping for Cashman or Epstein or something, but Hunsicker is OK. It's too much like Manuel last year where they said "oh yeah...we'll explore all possible angles" then they ended up taking the guy we figured all along that will do what Montgomery/Dallas Green says...
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 18, 2005, 10:09:48 AM
:-D
Nah, I guess I'm hoping for Cashman or Epstein or something, but Hunsicker is OK. It's too much like Manuel last year where they said "oh yeah...we'll explore all possible angles" then they ended up taking the guy we figured all along that will do what Montgomery/Dallas Green says...
Epstein is not even a possibility. They'll keep him in Boston. And Cashman would come here still crying over losing his dream job. No thanks.
Whoever is hired as the GM must have full autonomy over the organization. Montgomery and the ownership stooges have to agree to that otherwise no one worth his salt is going to take the job.
If they're interested in winning the World Series, they have to make a fundamental change.
If not, all this is window-dressing. Sadly, I think that's all Wade's firing was. Window dressing. I hope not for the sake of Phillies fans everywhere but that's what I expect from that group of losers.
Cashman is not that great a GM. He put together 1 WS championship team in the last 7-8 years with an open checkbook at his disposal and one of the best farm systems in baseball (if not the best).
i agree...people need to get off cashmans nuts...
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 18, 2005, 11:39:26 AM
Cashman is not that great a GM. He put together 1 WS championship team in the last 7-8 years with an open checkbook at his disposal and one of the best farm systems in baseball (if not the best).
i agree, but i'm not sure anyone knows how many of the decisions he made were truly his and how many were "influenced" by big George.
i think he has definitley done enough good to warrant getting a shot to do it all on his own somewhere, if not here.
Uhhh... the Yankees farm system is in tatters because of idiotic trades that Steinbrenner insisted on making.
Cashman is an excellent executive, guys. Also - I disagree with PG about him mooning over the Yankees job. I think he'd jump at the chance to prove he could win despite having Georgie's absurd payroll.
After all, a lot of the bone-headed signings and trades that the Yankme's have made during his tenure were done at the insistence of Steinbrenner and over the objections of Cashman.
Just sayin'...
Edited - good God, I just realized I agreed with Mo on this. :-X
Edited again - whew. Ed agrees with me too. :-D
Cashman said in an article last year that he wasn't interested in trading for Randy Johnson or most of the high-priced talent, and that he'd actually be interested in developing a farm system, but George gave him strict orders of 'YOU'RE DOING THIS". The article said that George had this guy wound so tight that he had to schedule his wife's C-section on an off day so he wouldn't miss any work!
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on October 18, 2005, 12:10:14 PM
Edited - good God, I just realized I agreed with Mo on this. :-X
you'd be better off in life if you were able to say that more often :evil
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 18, 2005, 11:40:44 AM
i agree...people need to get off cashmans nuts...
Hey...he pays well for it.
OK, so if Cashman was just a Steinbrenner puppet in NY, then he's simply an unknown commodity anywhere else.
Hunsicker's a hell of a GM. I think he'd be a huge asset to the Phillies.
He probably would be, especially with the way Houston has contended consistently for the last 10+ years, but there's negatives with that move. Is he desperate enough to get back into MLB that he'll accept what Montgomery/Green/Vukovich tell him to do (especially with Miller saying today that they're going to cave into Wagner's demands for $30M and FNTC without hiring a GM first! :boom )? Is he committed to several years of rebuilding the farm system? Is he committed to being here for the next 5 years or more? With his local ties (St. Joseph's, home in the area, etc.), will the fans see this as once again taking the easy option and hiring a friend/acquaintance (like they did with Manuel) instead of going after one of the bigger names or taking a chance on one of the up-and-coming 30-somethings?
OK, so if Cashman was just a Steinbrenner puppet in NY, then he's simply an unknown commodity anywhere else
thats all im saying...i dont know if hes a good gm or not...and i wouldnt even be opposed to them bringing him in...but lets not put him in the hall of fame
I would like more of a proven commodity here. It'd be nice to stumble upon the next Epstein and all, but what are the chances that'll happen? We could end up with the next DePodesta who farged up the Dodgers pretty bad.
I don't have the patience to wait while a young dude learns the ropes and feels his way.
I'm not sold on Cashman either. I know that Steinbrenner was pulling his strings like a puppet, but he still had a huge budget to operate with. How will he do with a budget that's half of the NYY one?
And I'm cool with them giving in to Billy Wagner. He is a MUST sign. Yeah the contract is a big one and it has a FNTC, but we need him. I do not miss the Jose Mesa days and if they let Wags walk (to New York is where he'd go) then it would be a double farging.
They'll have to get rid of one/two of Thome/Burrell/Abreu though for salary relief.
They could have had him for $24M 3 months ago if they didn't F around... :boom
Yeah...another thing to be pissed at Wade for. :boo
He screwed the negotiations up too, the farg.
What a colossal loser that guy is.
Signing Wagner to a deal like that just goes to show you the mindset of the group of assclowns who are running things at the moment.
And who would be your closer, Romey?
Ryan Madson?
Vicente Padilla?
Sign a free agent who is not good or older than Wags like Trevor Hoffman?
i just heard on the radio that Cashman has said that whereever he may go in the offseason, that Joe Kerrigan would have a spot with him. :-D
ha
QuoteBill Conlin | They never change, do they?
More than 150 full-time employees work for the Phillies in the Money Pit. They work in administration, marketing and ticket sales, baseball administration, public relations and stadium operations, medical personnel, clubhouse personnel and Florida operations.
Yet, only one of those full-time employees was fired by Phils CEO and Grand Pooh-bah Dave Montgomery 8 days ago.
Vice president and general manager Ed Wade was thrown under the team bus, a victim of 580,000 fans disguised as empty seats.
A few days before the ax fell, Wade rehired manager Charlie Manuel's coaching staff for 2006. Manuel is under contract through the 2007 season. Wade also announced that veteran special-assignment scout Jim Stewart would not be retained and several low-level Dominican summer league staffers are history.
Is that all there is?
An organization in disarray addresses a massive fan repudiation of its way of doing business by firing one GM, an anonymous scout and a couple of Dominican Republic fungo hitters and all problems are solved?
What in the Wade, Wade World of Sports is going on here, Monty?
How much comfort are you getting from the dry rot around you? If the Phillies were a building instead of a ballclub, they would be condemned for mold. They would have a tent over them and the men in charge would wear contamination-proof jumpsuits as they moved in with their chemicals.
In the 24 years since Bill Giles induced a group of kindred spirits to buy the Phillies from the Carpenter family, there have been just three titled general managers. Giles replaced GM Paul Owens with a committee chaired by himself and finally relinquished the job, if not the title, to Woody Woodward. Woody, a contrarian, lasted about as long as the average World Series game. An exhaustive search for a man who would fit the Phillies insistence on "comfort" (spelled c-o-m-p-l-i-a-n-c-e) ended with Lee Thomas, whose front-office career had risen only to the level of Cardinals traveling secretary. To help field man Thomas through the computer maze of modern baseball administration, Giles brought in Wade, a toy pit bull from Larry Shenk's '70s PR Department litter who had gone from PR in Pittsburgh and Houston to nuts and bolts for the consulting firm of Tal Smith, his Astros boss.
Through the entire Giles/Montgomery quarter century the Phillies management approach has changed little. Arrogant and smug are two adjectives that come to mind. There are lifers like Shenk whose tenure with the ballclub began in Connie Mack Stadium. Many date to the early days of Veterans Stadium. Two happy youngsters who reveled in the Phillies' 1980 championship, Joe Giles, son of Bill, and David Buck, son of a limited partner, are now high on the front-office masthead.
The young Buck's presence as vice president of advertising sales and Giles' title of director, business development, tell me this ownership is in for the long haul. Joe Giles is a limited partner, as well, part of Bill Giles' family partnership.
Be very afraid...
When the Soviet Union purged Josef Stalin, more than his statues were toppled and more was done than to remove his name from cities, schools and factories. The dictator's secret police and the state apparatus he ruled with a bloody fist went down as well.
But the Phillies not only don't sweep clean with a new broom, they apparently have no interest in sweeping at all.
In addition to all the Money Pit workers who will survive the boss they obviously helped put at risk, the organization employs more than 65 full-time minor league managers, coaches, instructors, administrators and scouts. They also served under Wade, and if you go by Baseball America's latest evaluation of the Phillies minor league system, they didn't serve him or assistant GM Mike Arbuckle particularly well. A No. 30 ranking out of 30 major league teams is not particularly flattering - even if you factor in the number of minor leaguers Wade traded away to acquire help for his little engine that couldn't.
Dave Montgomery and a blue-ribbon panel of aides will soon start interviewing GM candidates. Let the candidates beware, however...
It is common knowledge that if a high-profile candidate is serious, he will eliminate himself with the following statements:
• "Of course, I would want to hire the manager and coaching staff of my choosing."
• "I would like the courtesy of hiring my own scouting and minor league directors and evaluate the entire baseball operation."
Status quo is the Phillies' language, and loyalty counts. While the Phillies have made amazingly few front-office personnel changes over the years, those choosing to leave are required to sign a lengthy affidavit prohibiting them from disclosing anything remotely "out of school."
Oh, now you understand why a loose cannon like Larry Bowa has never gone off on the organization - even though he has a media forum to do so?
Just a few questions a GM candidate might ask:
• Somewhere during Jimmy Rollins' 577 minor league games, did anybody ever suggest that he take a pitch? Did any manager or coach tell him he might be asked to work counts and lay down a bunt?
• When Jim Thome was signed before the 2003 season, first baseman Ryan Howard had just led all Phillies minor leaguers in homers. Why wasn't he handed an outfield glove then and there?
• Is the guy who gave $2 million to those two South Korean stiffs still employed?
• Any reasons why your ballyhooed Latin-American renaissance has failed to produce a single projectable position player?
• Did your scouts not realize that every team must have a third baseman and a catcher?
Oh, by the way... Jim Leyland just called and said to pass this on: If you asked any of those questions, you didn't get the job.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 18, 2005, 01:51:48 PM
And who would be your closer, Romey?
Ryan Madson?
Vicente Padilla?
Sign a free agent who is not good or older than Wags like Trevor Hoffman?
IMO, the starting rotation is more important than the closer, Jay. I would use the money being slated for Wagner on a front line starter (A.J. Burnett?) or use an asset already on the team to acquire an ace.
If the money was still there to sign Wagner after all was said and done, I'd do what I could to sign him.
I think philosophically, they're approaching personnel decisions in an ass backwards way.
You build from the rotation outward rather than the other way around. That's all I'm saying.
BTW: As much as it pains me to say it, there really isn't a viable closer out there other than a Mantei, Ugie or Looper. None of those dudes are worth spit in comparison to Wagner but sometimes you have to sacrifice one position to improve an even more important one. In this case, I think that cliche applies.
The problem is that the FA market is weak as hell this year. I want no part of AJ Burnett because he's a fraud who will be asking for $12M a year. There are no other SP's out there worth a shtein, bro.
The back end of the bullpen is a must have. You have to have a lights out closer. And the dearth of talent that is available is what is driving the market price up. Just like some dumbas team is going to pay $12M for AJ Burnett some dumbass team is going to pay out the ass to sign a closer like Bob Wickman or Trevor Hoffman.
BJ Ryan is the only other good option out there as far as closers go. And he'll be asking for what Billy Wags is asking for too.
You can have the greatest SP's in the league but if you have a shoddy bullpen then it doesn't mean spit, bro. They need a badass closer. And Wags is that guy.
If they want a stud SP, which we all know they need, they better not sign Burnett. They need to use Burrell or Abreu to get him.
No team would be stupid enough to give BJ Ryan $10M a year......not even the Mets...
Meh. Agree to disagree, I guess.
I'd rather have four front-line starters and a mediocre closer than what the Phillies have now (and will apparently have again next year).
:-\
the wagner fntc isnt a big deal because if the phillies are ever out of contention, he will demand a trade and will be willing to go just about anywhere. and usually there are plenty of teams in the playoff race who need bullpen help. the only thing is the money, which won't be a huge deal if the phillies can get some salary relief for thome.
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/12938740.htm
Good. Get him signed ASAP. And another thing about the money -- there's no cap in baseball. They'll up their payroll or they'll deal Thome/Burrell or Abreu to compensate for the salary increase.
They're going to have to trade one of those guys anyways to get a good SP. The ones available on the market are pure garbage.
hey would you mind posting that article? i copied the link but i can't read the article because my work filter blocks anything with "sports" or "football" or "philadelphia eagles" :-D
They'd BETTER get Wagner signed.....QuotePosted on Wed, Oct. 19, 2005
Urbina investigated for fight in Venezuela
By MARCUS HAYES
hayesm@phillynews.com
The Phillies' Plan B might have just hit a snag.
The Phillies have considered setup man Ugueth Urbina as a possible closer if they don't re-sign Billy Wagner, who, like Urbina, can become a free agent next month.
However, Urbina might be embroiled in controversy again.
He was briefly questioned by police in Venezuela, then released as authorities investigated accusations that he assaulted several men after a party at his family's home.
Police said the incident occurred early Sunday after a welcome-home party for the major league player, when a dispute broke out between him and two of his workers about the whereabouts of a firearm.
"Under confusing circumstances, five workers were injured... one of them suffering back burns and on the right arm," said a statement from local investigators.
The incident occurred in the house of Urbina's mother, Maura Villareal, in the town of Ocumare del Tuy, about 26 miles south of Caracas, the capital.
"He hit us, threatened us with machetes, poured gasoline on us, and it was only by chance that he didn't burn us all," Argenis Farias, one of five laborers hurt in the incident, said Tuesday.
Police released Urbina after questioning, but the investigation continues. He was unavailable for immediate comment.
In September 2004, Urbina's mother was kidnapped from her home by drug traffickers and held for $6 million ransom. She was rescued 5 ½ months later in a mountainous zone in southern Venezuela. Urbina, then with the Detroit Tigers, left the team in the final weeks of the 2004 season and returned to Venezuela. He returned to them in the spring after they picked up his $4 million option. The Phillies acquired him in June.
Urbina has a record of 44-49 with 237 saves and a 3.45 ERA in 11 seasons. With the Phillies, Urbina was 4-3, with a 4.13 ERA and one save in 52 innings, but he also blew six saves.
The Phillies did not return messages left by the Daily News last night.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 19, 2005, 09:11:32 AM
hey would you mind posting that article? i copied the link but i can't read the article because my work filter blocks anything with "sports" or "football" or "philadelphia eagles" :-D
Your IT guy must be a stinkin Cowboys fan. Or the bosses know that productivity would be in the shteinter if they allowed you guys to read sports stuff all day long. :-D
QuotePhils make new Wagner offer
Ruben Amaro Jr. wasn't joking when he said the Phillies would aggressively pursue closer Billy Wagner through their organizational meetings.
At 9 a.m. yesterday, they began to map out their plans for the offseason and next year. They also delivered their latest proposal to Bean Stringfellow, Wagner's agent.
Amaro, an assistant general manager who is acting as the team's negotiator after the first last week of GM Ed Wade, said the Phillies believe Wagner, who can become a free agent next month, will see the proposal today. Stringfellow, who is based in Richmond, Va., is scheduled to visit Wagner's alpaca farm outside of Charlottesville, Va.
The Phils' latest best offer, delivered by Amaro and team president David Montgomery last week when they met Wagner and Stringfellow in Richmond, reportedly had a maximum guaranteed value of just under $22 million for three seasons.
Wagner has said he wants as much as 3 years for $30 million with a full no-trade clause.
thanks, PG.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 19, 2005, 09:14:04 AM
Your IT guy must be a stinkin Cowboys fan. Or the bosses know that productivity would be in the shteinter if they allowed you guys to read sports stuff all day long. :-D
we're a small business, so we don't have a full-time IT guy, my dad is the owner and he just has a guy come in to do stuff when we need it. but yeah, i think they put some sort of spy on my machine that allows them to see where i go. one day, all the sudden, I couldn't access anything. sucks for me. but I do get more work done in a day. >:D
I am a full time slacker from August to February. My boss knows and accepts this. Now if I only could get him to give me 6 months off a year while getting paid I'll be in heaven. But it won't happen so I'll continue to analyze my fantasy teams, the Eagles and the NFL in general on the clock. :D
yeah, that's what gets me, my fantasy teams, i used to be able to do all the research i needed but now, i have to try to do it at home and with 3 kids who need bathes and bedtimes that doesn't allow alot of computer time.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 19, 2005, 09:22:53 AM
I am a full time slacker from August to February. My boss knows and accepts this. Now if I only could get him to give me 6 months off a year while getting paid I'll be in heaven. But it won't happen so I'll continue to analyze my fantasy teams, the Eagles and the NFL in general on the clock. :D
Your fantasy league teams suck.
I own you.
Biatch.
:-D
I own both of you. 1st place, bishes.
Not for long, Shaggy.
One of these weeks, Trent Green is gonna light it up. Same for Deshaun Foster. And when that happens...
TA-DOW!
:yay
Update on Urbina (http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/12938611.htm) (Link requires registration)
Quote
Phillies relief pitcher Ugueth Urbina has been questioned about his role in a bloody brawl Sunday on family property in Venezuela, according to newspaper reports.
The incident occurred after a welcome-home party for the pitcher. Urbina went out to eat, then returned about 2 a.m. with several people to the farm in the town of Ocumare del Tuy, about 25 miles south of Caracas, several Venezuelan newspapers reported.
According to one of the farmworkers, Urbina started asking about a firearm that had disappeared. The worker, 21-year-old Ricardo Osal, told police that Urbina and others rounded up the workers, beat them, attacked them with a machete, then splattered gasoline and paint thinner on them and burned them.
At least five people were injured in the incident.
Urbina said that he was not involved, and that he was sleeping at the time, the newspapers reported. He has not been arrested.
Urbina, 31, voluntarily visited local authorities for questioning.
The Phillies said last night they had not heard about the incident and declined to comment until they knew more. Urbina's agent, Peter Greenberg, did not have any details but said Urbina is all right.
"I've been trying to find out a little more about that," Greenberg said. "I've left him a message, but right now I don't know much."
Osal reportedly suffered machete wounds on his hands and back, while another worker, Tony Rodriguez, was burned on his back and right arm.
Venezuela can be a dangerous place for wealthy athletes and their families.
Urbina's mother was kidnapped in September 2004 and held for ransom before finally being rescued in February after a police raid. Phillies rightfielder Bobby Abreu, also a native Venezuelan, and other high-profile athletes have armed guards at their homes and almost never leave without them.
Urbina, whom the Phillies acquired from the Detroit Tigers in a trade for Placido Polanco on June 8, is expected to become a free agent, and his future with the club is uncertain.
The Phillies are trying hard to re-sign closer Billy Wagner, to whom they made another contract offer yesterday. Urbina has said he would like to return to the closer's role.
Although it remains to be seen how potential legal problems in Venezuela may affect Urbina, the Phillies could look at him as an alternative if Wagner is not re-signed.
"We really haven't talked that through," Greenberg said. "I know he really liked playing in Philadelphia. Bobby [Abreu] is his best friend, and he loved being in that environment. Even though he wasn't a closer, he was happy."
As the Phillies' setup man, Urbina went 4-3 with a 4.13 ERA with one save in 56 appearances. He allowed four runs in one-third of an inning in his first Phillies appearance June 9, but had a 3.46 ERA after that.
Dayummmmm....
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 19, 2005, 09:12:59 AM
They'd BETTER get Wagner signed.....
QuotePosted on Wed, Oct. 19, 2005
Urbina investigated for fight in Venezuela
By MARCUS HAYES
hayesm@phillynews.com
The Phillies' Plan B might have just hit a snag.
The Phillies have considered setup man Ugueth Urbina as a possible closer if they don't re-sign Billy Wagner, who, like Urbina, can become a free agent next month.
However, Urbina might be embroiled in controversy again.
He was briefly questioned by police in Venezuela, then released as authorities investigated accusations that he assaulted several men after a party at his family's home.
Police said the incident occurred early Sunday after a welcome-home party for the major league player, when a dispute broke out between him and two of his workers about the whereabouts of a firearm.
"Under confusing circumstances, five workers were injured... one of them suffering back burns and on the right arm," said a statement from local investigators.
The incident occurred in the house of Urbina's mother, Maura Villareal, in the town of Ocumare del Tuy, about 26 miles south of Caracas, the capital.
"He hit us, threatened us with machetes, poured gasoline on us, and it was only by chance that he didn't burn us all," Argenis Farias, one of five laborers hurt in the incident, said Tuesday.
Police released Urbina after questioning, but the investigation continues. He was unavailable for immediate comment.
In September 2004, Urbina's mother was kidnapped from her home by drug traffickers and held for $6 million ransom. She was rescued 5 ½ months later in a mountainous zone in southern Venezuela. Urbina, then with the Detroit Tigers, left the team in the final weeks of the 2004 season and returned to Venezuela. He returned to them in the spring after they picked up his $4 million option. The Phillies acquired him in June.
Urbina has a record of 44-49 with 237 saves and a 3.45 ERA in 11 seasons. With the Phillies, Urbina was 4-3, with a 4.13 ERA and one save in 52 innings, but he also blew six saves.
The Phillies did not return messages left by the Daily News last night.
Thought the newer version had a few more details in case anyone cared.
Demon you should be ashamed of yourself for being late on posting a story.
I will banish myself to my own personal hell for 21 minutes and 18 seconds as my penance.
Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on October 19, 2005, 05:31:52 PM
I will banish myself to my own personal hell for 21 minutes and 18 seconds as my penance.
:P ;)
(http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/phi/images/email/y2005/monty_160x156.jpg)
I'm a douche
QuoteWe know that we have work to do this offseason. Getting the right person as the General Manager is step No. 1. From there, we need to make the necessary improvements to get our win total over 90 games, capture the division title, and play in the postseason.
How 'bout we just need to win the world series? You suck. Quit.
Quote from: MDS on October 19, 2005, 08:15:11 PM
(http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/phi/images/email/y2005/monty_160x156.jpg)
I'm a douche
I think you need a new avatar and under-avatar catchphrase.
tisk, its football season
QuotePhillies up ante for Wagner
BILLY SAYS NEW OFFER WORTH MULLING, BUT SO IS FREE AGENCY
By MARCUS HAYES
hayesm@phillynews.com
NOW, THEY'RE talking.
Billy Wagner received the Phillies' latest, best offer yesterday when agent Bean Stringfellow drove from Richmond to visit Wagner's alpaca farm outside Charlottesville, Va.
Wagner liked it.
He wouldn't say exactly what it was, but acknowledged that it met or came close to most of his current demands: 3 years for $30 million, all guaranteed money, with a full no-trade clause.
"They made a nice offer. It's the one we expected would be the first offer," said Wagner, whose price tag went from $24 million at the All-Star break to $27 million after the break, then rose to $30 million when the season ended.
The Phillies' previous offer, delivered in person by president David Montgomery and assistant general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. 7 days before, was thought to be less than $22 million of guaranteed money; Wagner wasn't interested.
"This time, they made a legitimate offer," Wagner said. "It's one you definitely look at. Sarah [his wife] and I will take a few days and look at it."
He also won't jump at it. Why?
He wants to test free agency. He wants to know who the Phillies' new general manager will be, and be assured that the new GM will bolster the bullpen in front of Wagner. And he'd love it if the new GM turns out to be former Astros GM Gerry Hunsicker, who traded Wagner to the Phillies after the 2003 season.
"This is a positive step, but I've never been a free agent. You finally get to pick a place you want to go," said Wagner, 34, the best of a glut of closers hitting the market next month - a market rife with rich buyers such as the Red Sox, Mets and Phillies. Not that Wagner plans on auctioning himself, exactly: "I just want to see what's out there."
He wants to see exactly who will be back in Philadelphia, too. The Phillies gave him pedigreed setup men the last two seasons in Tim Worrell and Ugueth Urbina, both of whom were complemented by Ryan Madson.
Worrell is gone. Urbina is under investigation in his native Venezuela for an altercation after a party held in his honor last weekend. Amaro yesterday said the Phillies, who are interested in re-signing Urbina if they don't re-sign Wagner, would have no comment until they knew more about the incident. Regardless, Urbina, who usually is a closer, has said he won't return to the Phillies as a setup man.
League sources indicate that the Phillies plan to move Madson from the bullpen, where he has spent his first two seasons, and make him a starter, most likely to replace enigmatic talent Vicente Padilla. The Phillies are not expected to offer arbitration to Padilla. Madson probably would join 2001 first-round pick Gavin Floyd in the back of the rotation.
Wagner wants to make sure that he likes that rotation and, more important, that he has bullpen protection. He figures Hunsicker would supply that if the Phillies hire him.
"I love Gerry. That would encourage me," said Wagner, who acknowledged that he and Hunsicker "butted heads" when Wagner was an Astro. Wagner, however, has always maintained that Houston owner Drayton McLane, not Hunsicker, was the reason Wagner complained. Hunsicker reportedly left the Astros after last season because of McLane, too.
"I know what he's about," Wagner said of Hunsicker. "The respect I hold for him is more than I hold for a lot of people. Gerry would address the needs. He would do it the right way. That Astros team there in St. Louis [for the NL Championship Series] - they're there because of Gerry. You give him the freedom to make the right trades, he'll win for you."
Wagner offered no opinion about Brian Cashman, who might leave the Yankees at the end of the month and find himself on top of the Phillies' list, alongside Hunsicker. He just wants to make sure he likes the new boss.
Montgomery was not available for comment last night. Amaro called Wagner the team's "top priority" after 2 days of organizational meetings - top priority, of course, along with securing a new GM.
"It's comforting to know who they have in a GM," Wagner said.
Then again, if the Phillies make another, better offer, maybe that issue dissolves, too. Or maybe not.
"It was good," Wagner said. "We're in no hurry."
Reading between the lines
The Phillies aren't issuing missives containing the minutes of the lion's share of their organizational meetings Tuesday and yesterday, but president David Montgomery issued an e-mail to ticket buyers that gave plenty of clues as to what went on.
First, Ryan Howard isn't going anywhere. He was listed as Exhibit C in the list of "positive signs for the future," essentially enticing fans to buy a bunch of ducats to see the kid who took over for Jim Thome and made a rookie of the year run.
Second, the general manager who replaces Ed Wade had better get to the playoffs, but you probably won't know who he is for a few weeks. Interviews might not even start until after the World Series. WTF are they waiting for!
League sources indicate that the Phillies haven't officially contacted anyone yet - not Gerry Hunsicker, and not Brian Cashman, whom they would have to ask permission to talk to. Cashman's contract with the Yankees expires at the end of this month, at which point the Phillies likely will pounce on him if he is interested in the job.
As for the playoffs issue, Montgomery reiterated his comments offered the day Wade was fired last week. The new GM's job will be to "get our win total over 90 games, capture the division title, and play in the postseason."
Montgomery left his office for a family function soon after issuing the e-mail yesterday evening. He was not available for comment.
wagner would be doing himself a huge disservice if he didnt go to free agency...especially when you have some huge money teams like the red sox looking for a closer
League sources from Marcus Hayes is like League sources from Mark Eckel.
i don't like giving Wagner a full no trade on a guarentee 3 year 30 million dollar deal
too much
i wouldnt have a problem with it if they were going to improve the team elsewhere and give it a legit shot to make the playoffs...but throwing that kind of money at wagner just to appease the fan base and help attendance without improving other aspects of the team is wasting money
A friend and I at work last night got into a debate over this Wagner situation...
I'll ask you guys what I asked him...
Do you remember the days of Ricky Bottalico and Jose Mesa and the other clowns the Phils trotted out there as a closer before we got Billy Wags?
I do. And I do not want to re-live those days. Wags is a stud.
What's $30 million over 3 years in the grand scheme of things? You have to remember...this is going to be a team that is run by a REAL GM (assuming Hunsicker is hired) who will make the right moves.
They'll obviously dump salary in other places (Burrell? Abreu? Thome? Bell? Lieby?) so giving him this fat deal will not be bad.
We NEED a stud closer.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 20, 2005, 09:01:13 AM
A friend and I at work last night got into a debate over this Wagner situation...
I'll ask you guys what I asked him...
Do you remember the days of Ricky Bottalico and Jose Mesa and the other clowns the Phils trotted out there as a closer before we got Billy Wags?
I do. And I do not want to re-live those days. Wags is a stud.
What's $30 million over 3 years in the grand scheme of things? You have to remember...this is going to be a team that is run by a REAL GM (assuming Hunsicker is hired) who will make the right moves.
They'll obviously dump salary in other places (Burrell? Abreu? Thome? Bell? Lieby?) so giving him this fat deal will not be bad.
We NEED a stud closer.
I have to agree wtih this 100%. I can't deal with another season like the Blowtalico and Mesa days. And back then, EVERYONE was screaming for a stud closer. Now, he's expendable?
Exactly.
Trade one of the corner OFs. Not only will you get a SP in return, but you'll be dumping salary in the process. They Phils have trading chips to use and subsequently dump salary at the same time.
If they get a #1 SP, re-sign Wags, dump salary and sign a few role players then I am happy.
id rather have urbina a couple starters than just wagner...or urbina and a real third baseman and/or catcher than wagner
whats the point of giving wagner 30 mil and doing nothing else
The fact that they are thinking about re-signing Urbina as the closer if they can't sign Wags should be enough to scare any Phillies fan into wanting the team to give Billy his full asking price PRONTO.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 20, 2005, 09:05:31 AM
id rather have urbina a couple starters than just wagner...or urbina and a real third baseman and/or catcher than wagner
whats the point of giving wagner 30 mil and doing nothing else
But you're not going to get "a couple starters". And I'd prefer one stud over a couple of bums, ya know?
1. #1 dude
2. Lieber
3. Myers
4. Madson/Lidle
5. Madson/Lidle/Floyd
Thats the rotation I'm lookin at.
And if Ugie is indeed in trouble for doing that stuff no way they bring him back. I like Ugie, but I like him as a set-up guy whch he will not do here.
Hunsicker can find a good 3B out there. There's role players to be had. We've got power elsewhere. Just need a high average/good defense guy. Something a real GM can find.
i want wagner dont get me wrong...but what good is he at 30 mil with a no trade if he limits what they can do for the next three years...if they can keep him and it not effect what they do elsewhere then im all for it
I don't want Ugie here, not as a setup man or a closer. Let him bitch about the way he's used and blow games elsewhere.
the only reason i have a problem with the money is that it makes it tougher to trade Wagner if they need too.
my main problem is giving a guarenteed, full no-trade to a 34 year old power pitcher with history of injuries.
what happens if the Phils make some nice moves over the next year or so and they are rounding into a true contendor in 2 years and Wagner is just plain done at 36? they won't be able to trade him with that contract and if he has a full no-trade, any trade you are able to make would have to be approved by him. just something to think about.
i think you go balls out to sign wags if you think you can win next year. i don't think they can, the rotation is in shambles and the lineup is not good enough. maybe they can make enough moves to make themselves a contender next year, but I doubt it.
i would be more willing to go with a younger, proven guy like B.J. Ryan. someone you has a better chance of being around and effective when the Phillies can be a true contender
I know closers are a valuable commodity, but Wags is crazy if he thinks he's going to get a $30 million guaranteed deal with a NTC from anywhere.
They need to get their choice as GM in place immediately.
lidle and floyd suck.
and will continue to do so until proven otherwise.
Quote from: Wingspan on October 20, 2005, 09:24:49 AM
lidle and floyd suck.
and will continue to do so until proven otherwise.
Lidle doesn't suck. ???
Link (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/12948516.htm)
QuoteLeague sources indicate that the Phillies plan to move Madson from the bullpen, where he has spent his first two seasons, and make him a starter, most likely to replace enigmatic talent Vicente Padilla. The Phillies are not expected to offer arbitration to Padilla. Madson probably would join 2001 first-round pick Gavin Floyd in the back of the rotation.
Lidle doesn't suck
for a number 5 he doesnt...in fact hes pretty damn good in that slot
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 20, 2005, 09:27:04 AM
Link (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/12948516.htm)
QuoteLeague sources indicate that the Phillies plan to move Madson from the bullpen, where he has spent his first two seasons, and make him a starter, most likely to replace enigmatic talent Vicente Padilla. The Phillies are not expected to offer arbitration to Padilla. Madson probably would join 2001 first-round pick Gavin Floyd in the back of the rotation.
i could so totally go PG on you right now, but I won't
I'm gonna delete it before she sees it :-D
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 20, 2005, 09:28:55 AM
I'm gonna delete it before she sees it :-D
I had already seen it. No worries.
yeah...a 4.5+ era is really really not suck worthy
he only went past the 6th inning 4 times since july 4th.
where is the new GM.
there going to wait for the all star break to hire one
Quote from: Wingspan on October 20, 2005, 09:30:22 AM
yeah...a 4.5+ era is really really not suck worthy
he only went past the 6th inning 4 times since july 4th.
Nice to look up the stats and pull THAT out. How many times did we all SCREAM at Manuel for taking the SP out before they should have come out?
When Lidle was needed to be clutch, he was. Look at his September. Saying he sucks is ridiculous.
havent we learned yet that games before september count?
how about july/august where he lost 6 of 7 starts?
lidle may not completly suck...but he is nothing more than a #5 guy. and thats a stetch for any decent staff.
QuoteDear icehole:
On behalf of the entire Phillies organization, I want you to know that we appreciate your passion and loyalty. We know full well that without our fans there would be no Phillies baseball. I am writing to give you a brief update on ballclub matters.
As I am sure you are aware, a search for a new General Manager is underway. Our intent is to conduct a thorough and intensive search in order to select a General Manager who will get us to the postseason and bring a championship to Philadelphia.
We know that we have work to do this offseason. Getting the right person as the General Manager is step No. 1. From there, we need to make the necessary improvements to get our win total over 90 games, capture the division title, and play in the postseason.
Looking back on the 2005 season, although we didn't achieve our goals, we believe that there were very positive signs for the future. The players played hard to the very last day in Washington. They never gave up and battled to the end for a postseason spot. Some individual performances were outstanding. Jimmy Rollins' 36-game hitting streak during the pressure of a pennant race was a remarkable feat. Chase Utley and Ryan Howard -- two young players who excelled in clutch situations and fed off the energy of our passionate fans -- provided great excitement. Many other achievements and strengths could be mentioned, but we recognize there is more to do and we intend to do it.
Thank you for your support throughout the 2005 season and past seasons. Our entire organization is very appreciative of the dedication exhibited by Phillies fans. We will not take that for granted and we will work hard each and every day to earn and keep your support.
We look forward to providing you with further updates as we proceed during the offseason.
Sincerely,
David Montgomery
President
Awe... I didn't know he cared.
:-[
I got that yesterday too. :-D
I'll bet hunt didn't get one of those from Steinbrenner.
Ha!
wagner says he wants to see what happens with the bullpen, with the rotation and with the new gm before he signs. he is favoring signing with the phillies (they offered what we wanted), but wont just sign based on money.
So, the Phillies have to improve the rest of the pitching staff. Sounds like a fair deal to me.
It would seem Billy wants to be the closer AND the new GM.
Billy The GM > Ed The GM
rjs > ed wade
The terd that just clogged my toilet > Ed Wade
wagner says he wants to see what happens with the bullpen, with the rotation and with the new gm before he signs. he is favoring signing with the phillies (they offered what we wanted), but wont just sign based on money
sounds a lot like a certain third baseman for the cardinals
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 21, 2005, 08:16:53 AM
wagner says he wants to see what happens with the bullpen, with the rotation and with the new gm before he signs. he is favoring signing with the phillies (they offered what we wanted), but wont just sign based on money
sounds a lot like a certain third baseman for the cardinals
no it doesn't.
so two bad months in the pen from madson and they want to move him to the rotation? we need a proven pitcher to go along with lieber, lidle and myers. add floyd in there and thats the 5. im fine with madson and someone else out of the pen to set up wags. get gordon or farnsworth, a lower level closer option that will probably choose being a setup man on a playoff contender over being a closer on a zesty team.
rumor has it cashman is back with the yankees, and that bowa has agreed to be the 3rd base coach.
why are these idiots twidling their thumbs. get hundsicker in here.
Hunsicker is apparently the front runner for the job in Tampa.
Glad to see the Phils doing something about this situation.
:boom :boom :boom :boom :boom
glad to see them interview someone, too.
I hate to break up the party, but Hunsicker is not necessarily the only possible missing piece of the puzzle.
ILK from PhilliesPhans no longer has ties to insider information now that Wade is gone. hmmmmmmmmm :sly
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 24, 2005, 03:52:32 PM
ILK from PhilliesPhans no longer has ties to insider information now that Wade is gone. hmmmmmmmmm :sly
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
meanwhile, they still haven't interviewed anyone yet
None that we know of that is....
Well other than Amaro and Arbuckle. :-\
There will be a full-scale riot if they hire Arbuckle or Amaro, Phreak.
I'll personally fill the soda bottles with jet fuel and tie the rags to the tops of the bottles myself if that happens.
And I'll light and throw the fargin things.
I like riots.
Just hire Hunsicker already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i think they forgot they need a new GM, they just keep wondering why that corner office has no one working in it anymore
all the talk and such has said they will definatley go outside the organization. easy to believe if they got off their asses and got a move on the hiring a gm thing
Someone called in WIP and said the NYpost reported Cashman re-signed. Hunsicker should be the guy then I guess if the caller was right.
Good.
I'm not sold on Cashman anyways.
Get Hunsicker in here now, fargo's.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 26, 2005, 08:53:55 AM
Good.
I'm not sold on Cashman anyways.
Get Hunsicker in here now, fargo's.
this whole thing is starting to piss me off.
seriously...the miniscule amount of excitement created by the wade firing is already long gone...its back to expect the worst and hope for the best
if someone called wip and said it, it must be true.
Meanwhile, without a GM, they hired John Russell to coach the Red Barons... :boom
Quote from: MDS on October 26, 2005, 10:03:02 AM
if someone called wip and said it, it must be true.
Link (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/baseball/12996687.htm)
Meanwhile, up in Boston:
Epstein rejects the latest offer (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/10/26/epstein_rejects_upgraded_offer_from_sox/)
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 26, 2005, 10:30:19 AM
Meanwhile, without a GM, they hired John Russell to coach the Red Barons... :boom
Why doesn't Monty just take the farging job himself? It's pretty clear that this search is nothing but a repeat of the managerial farce from last season and Monty apparently orchestrated that as well.
farg the Phillies. farg the Phillies in a steaming pile of puke/urine/shtein in Hell for all eternity.
:-D
Yeah, Monty needs to stop >:( , but looking on the bright side, Russell has been considered for managerial jobs the last few years and it's nice to see him get a shot. I don't have a problem with that.
schedule a farging interview with someone
Everyday I wake up hoping to see they've hired a GM. I've given up hope.
Monty = general partner, shareholder, president, GM, scout and farm director.
monty=idiot douche
Phillies pitchers and catchers will report on Feb. 16, and the first full-squad workout is scheduled for Feb. 21.
Boston is coming for the two game preseason series at CBP before the actual season opens. I have no idea why they do this. Cold, wet meaningless baseball for the same price as normal baseball that counts just doesnt seem to add up. It was a good idea last year when city bank opened, or if they made it free to attend or reduced price for schools and youth organizations etc. It just seems like a pretty dumb business move. But thats the Phillies.
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 26, 2005, 10:35:16 AM
Meanwhile, up in Boston:
Epstein rejects the latest offer (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/10/26/epstein_rejects_upgraded_offer_from_sox/)
Soooo, anyone else think Monty might be waiting till Nov. 1st to see if Epstein is still available?
hes not smart enough to hatch a scheme like that
I just puked:
QuotePosted on Thu, Oct. 27, 2005
Phillies interview Arbuckle for vacant GM slot
Astros Gerry Hunsicker has not been contacted. The team set its spring training schedule.
By Todd Zolecki and Jim Salisbury
Inquirer Staff Writers
There is movement in the Phillies' search for a general manager.
Team president David Montgomery interviewed assistant general manager Mike Arbuckle for the vacancy yesterday at Citizens Bank Park, while there is evidence that Montgomery has not contacted former Houston Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker about the job.
"It was a very thorough and a very good discussion," Arbuckle said.
Before Game 4 of the World Series last night in Houston, Astros president Tal Smith said Hunsicker remained under contract with the team until early next month. That means the Phillies would need to receive permission from the Astros to speak with Hunsicker.
So, have the Phillies asked?
"To my knowledge, they have not," Smith said. "And if they did, I think I would know."
Smith said the Astros would grant Montgomery permission to speak with Hunsicker if asked.
Hunsicker did not return phone calls yesterday seeking comment. But if he is a candidate for the Phillies job (and major-league sources have said that he is), the Phils might need to contact him soon. He is a candidate for a senior front-office position with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.
Former Toronto, Baltimore and Seattle general manager Pat Gillick also is a potential candidate to become Phillies GM. There has been speculation that Washington Nationals general manager Jim Bowden might be a candidate, but that will not happen. The Nationals are working on a contract extension with Bowden that is expected to be announced after the World Series.
Former Cleveland Indians and Texas Rangers general manager John Hart also has been rumored as a candidate.
Arbuckle and Phillies assistant general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. are the team's in-house candidates. Amaro is expected to interview in the next few days, possibly over the weekend.
Montgomery is turning down interview requests from reporters.
:fire
:fire (http://media.phillyburbs.com/2004/09/02/0902davemontgomery.jpg)
I farging told you guys this was going to happen.
Nothing but window dressing from those corksuckers.
Burn 'em all. :boom
what a bunch of dopes
i really want to be patient and see how this plays out. but we are all 90% how it's going to play out already and that really pisses me off.
i may be the only one but i like arbuckle a lot...not more than cashman or hunsicker but i think he has potential....if hes left alone to run a team as he see fits...problem is that isnt going to happen with the phillies which is why they wont get a cashman or hunsicker in the first place...
all you need to know about this whole farce is what happened with duquette....he supposedly was a candidate yet he signed on to be an assistant somethin somethin with the friggin orioles rather than even wait for an interview with the phils
this whole this is a effin joke
Your cynicism is well founded, Mo.
The real nightmare scenario would be if Monty conducted his "exhaustive" search and decided upon hiring Wade back.
If that happened, I seriously think there'd be death threats issued. Still, considering what little we know, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility.
:-\
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 27, 2005, 08:42:21 AM
i may be the only one but i like arbuckle a lot...not more than cashman or hunsicker but i think he has potential....if hes left alone to run a team as he see fits...problem is that isnt going to happen with the phillies which is why they wont get a cashman or hunsicker in the first place...
i did like Arbuckle a couple years ago, and when he interviewed in Boston i was hoping he didn't get the job so he could succed Wade. but the Phils farm system is one of the worst in baseball. now, i'm not sure that's all on Arbuckle, but he is the director of the farm system so he has responsibility there.
i don't understand the Hunsicker thing, he wants to be here, the fans want him here, he's a proven GM that only left his job because of a dispute with the owners. the fact that he hasn't even been contacted yet is absolutely absurd.
Why are you guys shocked that Arbuckle got interviewed?
Seriously. Monty said it on October 10th when he fired that little prick that Arbuckle and Amaro were going to be interviewed. But in every article since then they say that Monty KNOWS he has to go outside the organization or else feel the wrath. Monty is the next to go, folks. He has to get this right.
I wish he'd shtein or get off the pot and get Hunsicker in here as much as anyone. But I just cannot see how he'd hire either one of the assistant GMs.
And Pat Gillick's name is in the mix now. He'd be my #2 choice behind Hunsicker. I want no part of John Hart. I'm glad Duquette is in Baltimore. He farged the Mets hard. And Jim Bowden is a wheeler & dealer, but I'm not sold on him either.
get someone who has no affiliation with the phillies, because once you become a member of that organization, you automatically become a loser.
Bowden is getting an extension with Washington, so he's out...
The asst. GM in Boston, Josh Byrnes, will be the new GM in Arizona, so he's out...
The names continue to dwindle...
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 27, 2005, 02:53:40 PM
Bowden is getting an extension with Washington, so he's out...
The asst. GM in Boston, Josh Byrnes, will be the new GM in Arizona, so he's out...
The names continue to dwindle...
Bowden could get screwed on that one, unless he's being paid a king's ransom. His extension is only until April.
hooray for sitting around and doing noting but interveiwing our two indept in house candidates
Arbuckle interviewed today, someone else may interview tomorrow, and Monty will update us tomorrow afternoon... ::)
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 27, 2005, 09:18:27 PM
Arbuckle interviewed today, someone else Amaro, Jr. may interview tomorrow, and Monty will update us tomorrow afternoon... ::)
Fixadent. :puke
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 27, 2005, 08:48:31 AM
but the Phils farm system is one of the worst in baseball.
That's very debatable.
Hunsicker was in town yesterday along with Arbuckle. No link or anything, they just said it on WIP, right before I was about to head to bed too.
Lucky I caught it, but by the time you all wake up it will already be old news.
Story:
QuotePosted on Fri, Oct. 28, 2005
Phils talk to Hunsicker about GM post
By MARCUS HAYES
hayesm@phillynews.com
ONE OF Billy Wagner's main concerns as he perused the Phillies' latest offer was: Who will succeed Ed Wade as the team's general manager? That was one big reason he has left the Phillies' latest offer on the table and filed for free agency yesterday.
Wagner stumped hard for former aggressive, creative Astros GM Gerry Hunsicker to replace Wade. He got a step closer to that wish yesterday.
Hunsicker, a Collegeville native, interviewed with team president David Montgomery. He is the first candidate from outside the organization to be given an interview. Assistant GM Mike Arbuckle had his interview Wednesday, and assistant GM Ruben Amaro Jr. might get his today or tomorrow.
With a fan base howling for a big name from outside of the Phillies' family to succeed Wade, Hunsicker's interview should be a welcome development.
"I thought it was a productive meeting," said Hunsicker, who had not heard from the Phillies as of early this week.
He is a top candidate to join the restructured front office in Tampa Bay in a more advisory role, a top aide to new baseball operations director Andrew Friedman, who is 28. Hunsicker and Friedman met Tuesday in Houston for a second interview.
And then, suddenly, Hunsicker was contacted by the Phillies and rushed to town to meet Montgomery, who maintained his 2 weeks of media silence.
As he exited his flight from Philadelphia back to Houston last night, Hunsicker offered no further comment than to confirm that he and Montgomery met and that he hadn't been contacted "very long ago."
Hunsicker appears to be the first out-of-towner the Phillies have interviewed, though league sources said the Phils hoped to get a shot at Brian Cashman before he decided to stay with the Yankees and Jim Duquette, who will remain with the Nationals through the offseason.
However, the Phils remain interested in Seattle adviser Pat Gillick, who was the GM there, in Baltimore and, of course, in Toronto, where his Blue Jays won consecutive World Series - the second over the Phillies in 1993. The Phils also might be interested in former Rangers and Indians GM John Hart, assuming Hart wants to remain in a front-line role.
With Cashman staying in New York, Hunsicker appears to be the front-runner among the remaining candidates - with good reason. With a budget about $20 million shy of the $95 million level at which the Phillies seem destined to stay, Hunsicker built the Astros teams that took from the Phillies the last two NL wild-card berths. He stepped down after last season because of clashes with ownership.
The Astros have reached the playoffs six times in the 10 years since Hunsicker joined them, in part because of aggressive deals he brokered to obtain Randy Johnson in 1998 and Carlos Beltran last season.
For now, simply re-signing Wagner would be enough of an accomplishment for Hunsicker to endear himself to the local fan base.
Wagner yesterday joined 61 other players and filed for free agency on the first day he was able to do so. Eligible players may file for the next 14 days, but, at 34 and coming off perhaps the best of his nine seasons, Wagner might be the cream of the free-agency crop.
The Mets and Red Sox are expected to be his most aggressive suitors. Clubs are allowed to contact Wagner and other free agents who have filed and express their interest, but clubs cannot begin negotiations with free agents for 2 more weeks.
The Phillies knew this was coming, of course. Wagner told the Daily News last week that he was going to file, right when the Phillies made their best offer to date - thought to be 3 years and $24 million, about $6 million shy of his latest demands. Which include a full no-trade clause. They got their own confirmation shortly thereafter from Bean Stringfellow, Wagner's agent, neither of whom returned messages from the Daily News yesterday.
"They told us they were going to declare [yesterday], to not be alarmed by it," Amaro said.
It appears that the team's latest offer will remain on the table for the time being: "We haven't discussed it," Amaro said.
He and Arbuckle are filling the club's GM duties while Montgomery conducts his search for Wade's replacement. Arbuckle confirmed yesterday that he interviewed for the post Wednesday with Montgomery.
Until the past year or so, Arbuckle, a noted talent evaluator, seemed to be Wade's replacement-in-waiting. Now, it appears the Phillies are eager to hire from outside the organization - not that Arbuckle considered his interview anything but substantial.
"It was a very lengthy, thorough interview," said Arbuckle, who returned to his home in Missouri yesterday.
Amaro's should be, too, though he essentially has been auditioning for the job since Wade was fired Oct. 10.
"I don't think of it as an audition," said Amaro, pointing to his 7 years as assistant GM and the corresponding duties - duties he has simply continued. "The things I'm doing now [without Wade] are the things I've done in my current position. I'm just going about my business."
"We are going to continue running the show," Arbuckle said. "Any initial contact we make will have to be prefaced with the understanding of our situation."
That didn't keep them from fielding calls and making a few, too. With Wagner's status uncertain, and with the bullpen needing an arm or two, closers such as Cleveland's Bob Wickman, who declared yesterday, should be attractive amid a glut of veteran bullpen arms expected to land on the market.
"We've already had contact, reached out to a couple of players' agents," Amaro said. "Just kicking some tires."
Just in case their Ferrari winds up in someone else's garage before a new GM is hired.
Should've hired his ass on the spot. But nice to see some movement...
Inky says that they're thinking about moving the LF fence back or raising it higher.
Inky says that they're thinking about moving the LF fence back or raising it higher.
eskin reported this yesterday as a done deal
i was shocked to hear it...these guys giving up money...especially after the losses this year is pretty amazing to me
Shoot...if its a done deal then color me shocked as well.
I'm shocked that the Phillies notoriously stubborn brass has not only fired the dope but they're listening to the fans and players about their crown jewel park being a joke.
Good job, Monty (if he hires Gerry and goes through with the changes, that is).
Shoot...if its a done deal then color me shocked as well
again it was eskin so take it with a salt mine...but he came off as if there was no question about it
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 28, 2005, 08:42:53 AM
Inky says that they're thinking about moving the LF fence back or raising it higher.
eskin reported this yesterday as a done deal
i was shocked to hear it...these guys giving up money...especially after the losses this year is pretty amazing to me
I reported it almost 2 months ago. Eskin can suck my balls. Give me a cookie.
Quote from: MURP on September 11, 2005, 11:10:53 AM
Anyone else hear the rumor that the Phillies are going to knock out the flowers and maybe a couple rows of seats in Left field to make it deeper?
people been talking about it since june...no one truly believed there was a chance it would ever happen tho
no cookie for you
howard>our lives
boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Epstein close to new 3-year deal with Red Sox (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/10/28/epstein_sox_are_closing_in_on_new_deal/) :-\
Well, I guess it's Hunsicker....
just keep the mediocrity in order and give amaro the job
TO is God just let one loose (http://610wip.com/petition/index.php)
:puke
I'd rather put Ed Wade back in office.
Shoot yourselves.
the worst part is that he is totally serious. he claims that because he covered sports for 30 years it makes him qualified for the job.
i hope Jodi eventually takes him over in the ratings.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 28, 2005, 04:03:02 PM
the worst part is that he is totally serious. he claims that because he covered sports for 30 years it makes him qualified for the job.
i hope Jodi eventually takes him over in the ratings.
I hope Jodi kills him.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 28, 2005, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 28, 2005, 04:03:02 PM
the worst part is that he is totally serious. he claims that because he covered sports for 30 years it makes him qualified for the job.
i hope Jodi eventually takes him over in the ratings.
I hope Jodi kills him.
for real kill him, or just in the ratings. because i don't think Jodi is smart enough to kills someone and not get caught. so, if he gets caught, he will be in jail and we won't be able to hear him anyway.
For real kill him.
Or one of Eskin's furs would come to live and eat him whole....a la the snake and the kangaroo.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 28, 2005, 04:07:46 PM
For real kill him.
Or one of Eskin's furs would come to live and eat him whole....a la the snake and the kangaroo.
you need to learn to let the hate go, for it is a path to the dark side.
I can take all of the hate and just focus it on one person. Eskin.
What better person could I focus it on?
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 28, 2005, 04:07:46 PM
one of Eskin's furs would come to live and eat him whole....a la the snake and the kangaroo.
igy?
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 28, 2005, 04:11:41 PM
I can take all of the hate and just focus it on one person. Eskin.
What better person could I focus it on?
i would say Satan, but i think you'd respond with Eskin > Satan
Eskin = Satan
I signed the petition.
Quote from: TO is GOD on October 28, 2005, 04:37:56 PM
I signed the petition.
in other shocking news, jews have money.
Quote from: TO is GOD on October 28, 2005, 04:37:56 PM
I signed the petition.
Proving what we all already knew.
That I know whats right for the Phillies? Yes we already knew that.
LF fence changes now official (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051028&content_id=1262133&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi)
Sweet. :yay
QuoteThough he didn't list specifics, Phillies team president David Montgomery confirmed on Friday that he intends to move the fences back at Citizens Bank Park.
Can anyone else picture Monty with pickaxe and shovel? :-D
Damn, Howard was right on the money on that too. He talked about it on wednesday. He said it was gonna be moved back 20-25 feet.
that's because Howard is The One, and will eventually free all of us from the slavery of The Matrix
hey to is god, how did howards dong taste tonight?
Damn, you didn't get saved yet? He saved me way back.
More love from Big Dave:
QuoteDear Phillies Fan:
Late this afternoon, a conference call with the media was held to update them on the search for a new General Manager. I wanted to take this opportunity to give you a summary of the conference call.
During the past two weeks, more than 40 candidates have either been identified by us or have directly or indirectly expressed interest in the position. After reviewing and evaluating this list, we have selected a group of individuals for one-on-one interviews.
Thus far, I have conducted three interviews: Mike Arbuckle, our Assistant GM, Scouting & Player Development, on Wednesday; Gerry Hunsicker, former GM of the Houston Astros, on Thursday and Pat Gillick, former GM of the Toronto Blue Jays, Baltimore Orioles and Seattle Mariners and the current Special Consultant in Seattle, today.
I expect to continue this process through the weekend, including interviewing Ruben Amaro, Jr. on Sunday, followed by one or two more interviews early next week and more, if necessary, with the hopes of identifying our new GM as soon as possible. As I've indicated, getting the right person is of the utmost importance.
On another matter, a question arose concerning the dimensions of Citizens Bank Park. We have always wanted to have a ballpark that plays fair. After extensive study and charting every home run the past two seasons, we have decided to make changes to the existing left field wall. Details on this project will be forthcoming.
As always, thank you for your interest in the Phillies.
Sincerely,
David Montgomery
:-*
manny ramirez wants to be traded again.
thome and burrell for ramirez and schilling. boom.
Quote from: MDS on October 29, 2005, 11:25:00 AM
manny ramirez wants to be traded again.
thome and burrell for ramirez and schilling. boom.
Why would the Sawx need Thome?
make up for mannys bat? he and ortiz could split first/dh duties. i dont know, just a tip off my ass thought. its not like its an actual rumor.
Per Zolecki today, the Phils will interview Indians asst. GM Chris Antonetti, who is considered one of the up-and-coming GMs in baseball...
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 29, 2005, 02:35:13 PM
Per Zolecki today, the Phils will interview Indians asst. GM Chris Antonetti, who is considered one of the up-and-coming GMs in baseball...
Up and coming GM's are great for up and coming teams. This team isn't an up and coming team. Unless there is a plan to blow up the entire roster and only keep a couple of the young guys around to build around then I'd prefer to see an established GM brought in. Of course, damn near anyone would be better than Wade.
bring back wade
After the 20 minutes of Eagles coverage to open CSN SportsNite, there will be a Matt Yallof interview with Monty. Not expecting anything newsworthy, but hey...
but hey what did he say, okay?
MDS already saw what I posted on PP, but for those that don't go there:
QuoteIt was Lieberthal's annual Halloween party for the Children's Hospital, and Yallof interviewed Monty, Amaro and Lieberthal on a few items.
-- Monty maintains that Amaro and Arbuckle do not have any advantages over an outsider, and that their ideas don't necessarily agree with what Wade's ideas were. Amaro later agreed with this.
-- When asked if a new GM would agree to less control than what they've had in the past, Monty said that "off the top of his head" that wouldn't be the case, but countered that both Hunsicker and Gillick were highly interested in the position, so it must mean that the Phillies are attractive right now. ::)
-- Monty says that it isn't important to have a GM by the winter meetings next week in California....it's more important to have the right GM.
-- Amaro says that working on a new deal for Wagner will continue to be his job because he's been the point man on new deals for the last 7 years and that's what he does, and he said it's the #1 priority for the team whether he's there or he leaves. When Monty was asked if the contract stuff gives Amaro an advantage for the new GM spot, he said it didn't and that Amaro would likely continue to be an assistant GM even if a new GM was here.
-- Lieberthal is happy that the fences are going to be moved because he was tired of seeing popups land in the 1st or 2nd row....it was deflating...sad....
i saw it after i posted here. ;)
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 31, 2005, 12:18:51 AM
-- Lieberthal is happy that the fences are going to be moved because he was tired of seeing popups land in the 1st or 2nd row....it was deflating...sad....
But the popups that he saw land in the 1st or 2nd row were all his.
but the crappy pitches that he called that landed there were all his
Both papers are saying that Monty could hire a guy by Wednesday because the Dodgers are going to start looking at people. They have interest in Gillick.
Just hire Hunsicker already, dammit!
im still leaning towards this ed wade fellow
during the WIP update, Rob Charry said that reports are the Phillies are close to hiring Gillick.
i'll guarentee you that in their interviews Gillick said he wanted to keep Manuel and Hunsicker said he wanted to get rid of him.
The LA Times is saying that, but nothing is set yet. If they do hire him, it'll be a 2-year deal max, with Amaro taking over. You can't trust 'em...
Quote from: BigEd76 on October 31, 2005, 11:42:32 AM
You can't trust 'em...
who? the Phillies or the LA Times?
The Phillies.
that would be an awful, yet typical phillies, move.
:-D :boom :-D :boom :-D :boom :-D :boom :-D :boom
Phillies.com mentions that Burrell might be moved to 3B and Howard moved to OF next year.
That team might suck pretty hard defensively.
QuoteTheo walks away from Sox
By Michael Silverman
Monday, October 31, 2005 - Updated: 05:42 PM EST
Theo Epstein stunned the Red Sox and the baseball world this afternoon by walking away from his job as general manager.
Just hours before his deal was set to expire at midnight, Epstein told his bosses and associates at the Red Sox' Yawkey Way offices that he had decided not to accept a three-year deal worth $1.5 million a year, an extension for the contract he signed on Nov. 25, 2002.
Epstein had done some agonizing soul-searching the past few days, torn between staying at the job he had always coveted since his childhood days in Brookline and leaving because of intra-organizational politics and power struggles that he ultimately decided he could not live with any longer.
Money and length of the contract were not issues in the past few days for Epstein, who had lobbied hard for an annual salary of more than $1 million a year.
Epstein had come close to agreeing to a deal Saturday evening but had not officially conveyed acceptance of it. On Sunday, he began having serious misgivings about staying on. A leading contributing factor, according to sources close to the situation, was a column in Sunday's Boston Globe in which too much inside information about the relationship between Epstein and his mentor, team president and CEO Larry Lucchino, was revealed -- in a manner slanted too much in Lucchino's favor. Epstein, according to these sources, had several reasons to believe Lucchino was a primary source behind the column and came to the realization that if this information were leaked hours before Epstein was going to agree to a new long-term deal, it signaled excessive bad faith between him and Lucchino.
Epstein had not made up his mind about accepting the job before going to bed Sunday night, this despite a report in the Boston Globe, citing multiple major-league sources, that Epstein and the Red Sox had agreed to a contract extension.
The Globe's parent company, the New York Times, holds a 17 percent ownership stake in the Red Sox.
A next step for Epstein, 31, remains unknown, although he has told associates that he may leave baseball and look for another line of work. The Dodgers, Phillies and Devil Rays currently have GM vacancies but it is believed that Epstein is likely to take a year off from baseball before considering a return.
Besides dealing with the likely public relations fallout from Epstein's departure, the Red Sox will also have to replace him as well.
Veteran general managers Pat Gillick and Gerry Hunsicker have been interviewing for some of the current openings and will likely be at least considered for this one. Current San Diego general manager Kevin Towers recently interviewed for the vacant Arizona Diamondbacks GM vacancy, which has since been filled by Epstein's former assistant, Josh Byrnes, late last week. Towers worked for Lucchino and with Epstein in San Diego before Lucchino became part of the ownership group of the Red Sox.
San Francisco general manager Brian Sabean, a graduate of Concord (N.H.) High School, has also been mentioned as a possibility.
Internally, the Red Sox will likely take a look at some of Epstein's top assistants, including Peter Woodfork, director of baseball operations; Jed Hoyer, assistant to the GM; and Ben Cherington, director of player development.
Epstein was a leading force in assembling the Red Sox 2004 World Series championship squad. Two of his most notable acquisitions in his tenure was the trade for Curt Schilling three Novembers ago and the free agent signing of David Ortiz in 2003. He traded shortstop Nomar Garciaparra for Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz in the midst of the 2004 season, plus he also signed free agent closer Keith Foulke before the championship season.
A year ago, Epstein was at the helm when the club could not come to terms with free agent Pedro Martinez and would not re-sign pitcher Derek Lowe. Instead, the club signed free agent starters David Wells and Matt Clement.
Some deals backfired for Epstein, including Ramiro Mendoza and Jeremy Giambi, but on the whole his winning percentage was rated quite highly around the game.
When he was hired on Nov. 25, 2002, Epstein was the youngest GM in history at 28 years, 11 months. Epstein is a graduate of Brookline High School, Yale University and the University of San Diego Law School.
wip saying gillick has the job. talk was he gets it for 2 years and paves the way for amaro. that still sucks on top of epstein now being out there.
Quote from: MDS on October 31, 2005, 05:52:16 PM
wip saying gillick has the job. talk was he gets it for 2 years and paves the way for amaro. that still sucks on top of epstein now being out there.
thats just goddamned retarded
So it's official that Gillick is the guy?
Even if it ain't official and it turns out to be true, I'm going to cry. >:(
Nope, not official. WIP has been running with the LA Times story all day...
Well...thats good. I haven't listened to the radio today at all.
And how is the LA Times scooping the local papers?
I mean, c'mon.
LOL! If that's a rhetorical question, it's a doozie, Jay.
:-D
Theo sez:
QuoteFirst, I want to thank John Henry, Tom Werner, and Larry Lucchino for the opportunity to serve as General Manager for the last three seasons. Their support and friendship mean a lot to me, and I wish them all well. I also owe a debt of gratitude to the players, Terry Francona, the coaching staff, the front office, the baseball operations staff, and the fans for making my Red Sox experience so meaningful.
Growing up in the shadow of Fenway Park, I never dreamed of having the chance to work for my hometown team during such an historic period.
My decision not to return as General Manager of the Red Sox is an extremely difficult one. I will always cherish the relationships I developed here and am proud to have worked side-by-side with so many great people, in and out of uniform, as together we brought a World Championship to Boston.
In my time as General Manager, I gave my entire heart and soul to the organization. During the process leading up to today's decision, I came to the conclusion that I can no longer do so. In the end, my choice is the right one not only for me but for the Red Sox.
My affection for the Red Sox did not begin four years ago when I started working here, and it does not end today. I will remain on the job for several days as we finalize preparation for next week's general managers meetings. Thereafter, I will make myself available to the organization to ensure a smooth and stable transition.
My passion for and dedication to the game of baseball remain strong. Although I have no immediate plans, I will embrace this change in my life and look forward with excitement to the future.
Gammons and others in Boston think that he might take a year off from baseball to get away from the atmosphere and pressure. He could also end up in LA (f you bionic)...
why would he want to sign here?
Quote from: MDS on October 31, 2005, 08:00:15 PM
why would he want to sign here?
He wants to go to a city where the fans are so jaded that all his team has to do is make the playoffs to make him a big-time success.
Having been living in the Boston area since 2003, I think Theo likes the spotlight on himself alot. He liked to play the Boston clubs with his band etc...
I think he's headed to LA, where he can pretend to be Guns-n-Roses on the Sunset Strip instead of the Dead Milkmen at the Trocadero.
LA just got rid of a Moneyball guy. Why would they get another? They probably want Lasorda to take over... ;D
dallas green. ive changed my mind. give him the job.
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 31, 2005, 08:43:35 PM
He wants to go to a city where the fans are so jaded that all his team has to do is make the playoffs to make him a big-time success.
So.....he's probably coming to Philly? Sweet.
QuotePosted on Tue, Nov. 01, 2005
2d Hall nod for Ashburn?
Baseball Notable
The late Richie Ashburn, who is in the Hall of Fame as a player, is among 182 baseball broadcasters on the fan ballot as nominees for the Ford C. Frick Award.
The former Phillies centerfielder was elected to the Hall in 1995. Other Hall of Fame players nominated for the broadcasting award are Dizzy Dean, Joe Morgan, Pee Wee Reese, Phil Rizzuto and Waite Hoyt.
Fan voting for up to three slots begins today, and each person can vote once daily during November. The award is given annually during Hall of Fame induction ceremonies for excellence in broadcasting.
The list includes Tim McCarver, Tony Kubek, Tom Cheek, Ned Martin, Dave Niehaus, Joe Nuxhall, Ross Porter, Ron Santo, Herb Score and Mike Shannon.
The 10 finalists for the 2006 award, including the three fan winners and seven broadcasters chosen by the Hall of Fame staff, will be announced Dec. 5. Twenty people will vote for the award, including the Phillies' Harry Kalas and 13 other living Frick Award winners. The winner will be announced in February.
Whitey! :yay
You know HK will be there doing his speech for him that day. :yay
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 01, 2005, 07:38:29 AM
You know HK will be there doing his speech for him that day. :yay
If lung cancer or emphysema doesn't kill him first...
hayes says monty could announce the new gm as soon as today. all rumors point to pat gillick. :(
gillick just turned down the dodgers job according to eskin and will be the next phillies gm
Looks like he's gonna be the Phils next GM.
Pat Gillick = Dave Montgomery hand-puppet
typical awful move. what a shock.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5044354 :boom
Gotta love how the Phillies stay hip. Their announcer, GM, senior advisor and manager are all over the age of 60... :boom :boom
what a loser franchise. i cant say enough at how i wish i had the strength to stop following them.
Quote from: MDS on November 01, 2005, 05:53:52 PM
what a loser franchise. i cant say enough at how i wish i had the strength to stop following them.
It's really quite simple. I did it when I was 16.
That link doesn't sound official on anything.....??
all signs point to him.....
Quote from: MDS on November 01, 2005, 05:59:28 PM
all signs point to him.....
Did your magic 8 ball tell you that?
Quote from: rjs246 on November 01, 2005, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: MDS on November 01, 2005, 05:53:52 PM
what a loser franchise. i cant say enough at how i wish i had the strength to stop following them.
It's really quite simple. I did it when I was 16.
You beat me. I did when I was 19.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/13054681.htm
haha
Here's the text of a letter that I wrote to Monty. I'm sure there's inaccuracies & whatever but I wrote it and shot it off to him:
QuoteDear Mr. Montgomery,
I am writing today to express my feelings of disgust, outrage, and utter dismay at the news that the Phillies have settled on hiring Pat Gillick as the General Manager of the team.
It is inconceivable to me that a team with a history that is as wretched as the Phillies would continue to make blunder after blunder concerning the direction of the franchise. Of course, considering the Phillies are the losingest franchise in the history of professional sport, I suppose it really shouldn't surprise me at all.
First, let me acknowledge that I understand the qualifications of Pat Gillick. He is a veteran baseball man with a couple of World's Championships to his credit. That's great. What's sad is, there are qualified candidates out there who aren't approaching the mandatory retirement age, yet somehow, you view him as the best candidate available to lead the Phillies over the hump. Color me confused. How is this possible, Mr. Montgomery? How can a 68 year-old man be expected to make the decisions necessary to bring a championship to Philadelphia for the next 10 years when it's entirely fair to assume he'll be out the door in a maximum of 2?
The answer is, he won't. Your machinations are all too obvious. Your intent was to hire an interim general manager to groom either Mike Arbuckle or Ruben Amaro, Jr. to succeed him, right? To quote a phrase - say it ain't so, Dave.
But to be fair, let's assume that your plan is sound and that both gentlemen are qualified to assume the position [if you'll forgive the off-color pun] when Mr. Gillick is sent out to pasture. Let's examine those two candidates for a moment and consider what the future holds if they take over:
First - Mike Arbuckle. The Phillies have the absolute worst minor league system in professional baseball. In point of fact, they are the laughingstock of the major leagues in that regard. Who was charged with "building" the talent level in the minors to its current state? Yep - you guessed it. Mike Arbuckle.
Strike One.
Second - Ruben Amaro, Jr. I'm curious - who was the assistant General Manager during the Ed Wade era? Yep - you guessed it again, Dave. None other than Mr. Ruben Amaro, Jr. But wait, didn't you just fire Mr. Wade a few weeks ago because his tenure ended as a colossal failure? Yep, I'm pretty sure I read that in a newspaper somewhere.
Strike Two.
You can see where I'm going here, can't you, Dave? This move you're about to make is steeped in the rich tradition of idiocy that is Phillies baseball history. Whenever there's been a chance to make a turn for the better, remarkably, they've succeeded in doing the exact opposite. After nearly 125 years of futility, isn't it time to stop the insanity and get this thing on the right track? No, you say? Well, maybe you're the problem, Dave.
From hiring Ed Wade to losing Scott Rolen & Curt Schilling for next to nothing to firing Larry Bowa to giving us that ridiculous sideshow of a managerial search last year, you've been at the top of the heap making the big decisions. In my humble opinion, you are the one who should be tendering his resignation at this point. If you can't see that there are numerous candidates out there who are better for the long-term future of the Phillies, then you are the problem here, sir, not a poor patsy like Ed Wade.
It's time for you to look in the mirror, Sir. The problem is you. Fire yourself and save Phillies fans from another 10 years of abject futility. If you had an ounce of compassion for us long-suffering fans, you'd do exactly that. You'd remove yourself from the equation and allow a real baseball man to take over the reigns of our beloved and bedraggled franchise.
Of course, that's not going to happen. Nope - you'll hire Gillick and have a fancy press conference and try and sell the sheep on the pretense that the Phillies have found their man, and are finally on the road to glory.
Sorry, Dave. I ain't buyin' it this time. Until I see you finally being shown the door, I have no interest in following the Phillies any longer. You had this one last chance to make things right, and you fricken blew it.
Thanks for the memories.
Sincerely yours,
A 40-Year Phillies Phan
They can suck my meatcicle with this move. farg the Phillies to hell and back.
Didn't Gillick win titles before?
Hunsicker hasn't won shtein if I'm correct. Why is this movie so hated?
He's 68 years old and won't be the GM past 2007.
He's an interim GM when a legitimate long-term solution was available.
im going to wait and see what chris wheeler has to say about this before i come to any conclusions.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 01, 2005, 08:27:40 PM
He's 68 years old and won't be the GM past 2007.
He's an interim GM when a legitimate long-term solution was available.
How do you know he won't be here past 2007? Age has nothing to do with his term.
Do you expect the man to survive longer running this team?
great, hire the old farg who wants to stay in farging Toronto to run the team. real nice.
romey - great letter.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Farg David Montgomery. I hope he chokes on his caviar, the effin main line prick.
QuoteAnother source close to the situation confirmed that the choice was Gillick, who last week said he believed the Phillies didn't need a whole lot of tinkering to get to the next level.
I could almost laugh at this. Almost.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Stand Pat Gillick is here and the only reason is because he sucked on Monty's nuts. Farg him, the loser.
Hunsicker....rub Monty's face in it and go build a winner.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 01, 2005, 10:13:34 PM
QuoteAnother source close to the situation confirmed that the choice was Gillick, who last week said he believed the Phillies didn't need a whole lot of tinkering to get to the next level.
I could almost laugh at this. Almost.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Stand Pat Gillick is here and the only reason is because he sucked on Monty's nuts. Farg him, the loser.
Hunsicker....rub Monty's face in it and go build a winner.
it's pathetic really. i'll just about guarentee you that he told Montgomery that he would keep Manuel on and I'm sure Hunsicker would give no such guarentee, thus one of the major deciding factors
nothing says "starting fresh" like a bunch of social security-collecting re-treads
If that's true then please stop rooting for the team guys. Please.
From CSN.com:
QuoteGillick told Montgomery that he would likely spend a majority of his time in Philadelphia if he got the job.
Quotea team source said, Gillick reportedly believes that the Phillies already have a solid nucleus, to which the new GM praised his predecessor. If anything, Montgomery and the Phillies' brass like to be told that they are on the right track and preside over a team that needs just a scant bit of tinkering. Just ask new Detroit manager Jim Leyland, who during an interview for the manager's job last year informed the team's bosses that the Phils needed a sizable overhaul in order to reach the post-season.
Reportedly, Gillick sang all of the right notes to Montgomery's chorus.
:poison
Still Done with the Phils. Step one was getting rid of Wade they did that but then they screw up step 2 and get the wrong person for this team. At this point just blow up the new stadium and hope the TB Devil rays relocate, they have a much better future.
Randy Miller on WIP said Hunsicker was very angry with the Phillies, and like most of you probably think, he thinks they hired him because he'll do what the Phillies tell him.
:-D
I can't believe you all actually support this team. You people are so sad it's pathetic. It's almost like that pathetic girlfriend who gets beat up by her boyfriend and is afraid to leave him because she thinks she loves him.
In life you only love who loves you back. The Phillies don't care about you. Just leave them already enough is enough.
:-D oh man this is so predictable. what a loser franchise!
i may be speaking out of turn here...but what if this guy works out?
Then they will do good?
Quote from: Wingspan on November 01, 2005, 11:20:46 PM
i may be speaking out of turn here...but what if this guy works out?
We've been saying
what if for the past 12 years with the Phils. It's the same old shtein with them, we want Leyland, they hire Manuel. We want Hunsicker, they hire Gillick.
all the season ticket holders and fans that whined about wade should do the same thing about monty
Quote from: TO is GOD on November 01, 2005, 10:52:04 PM
I can't believe you all actually support this team. You people are so sad it's pathetic. It's almost like that pathetic girlfriend who gets beat up by her boyfriend and is afraid to leave him because she thinks she loves him.
In life you only love who loves you back. The Phillies don't care about you. Just leave them already enough is enough.
Then get the farg off the thread, you idiot.
Quote from: Wingspan on November 01, 2005, 11:20:46 PM
i may be speaking out of turn here...but what if this guy works out?
He very well could. But I wanted Hunsicker.
Gillick was over .500 in each of his 3 stops and has won a WS.
But I don't like the whole "sources say he said this team needs little to no tinkering" and the suggestion that Ed Wade Jr. will take over for him in 2-3 years.
If I was Hunsicker I'd be pissed too. I cannot wait for the article that someone will surely write that goes more in depth with what TOisGod said Miller said on the radio. It'll be just like last year with Leyland. Hunsicker will tell us that he told Monty The Moron the team needed change and that doomed him.
I bet on it.
Farg David Montgomery.
I've had about 12 hours to digest this latest development and here's what the new sunrise has wrought:
First - Gillick is definitely qualified. He's a solid baseball guy with a resume that is laudible. That said, he's the wrong guy, IMO, and this decision will cast a pall over baseball in Philly for years to come. I hope I'm wrong, but I just know in my heart and mind that I'm right.
Second - Monty hired him as a stop-gap. There is simply no other plausible explanation when you have a guy like Hunsicker available. This is precisely the same thing that happened last year with Leyland. He didn't kiss Monty's ass, and as a result, he didn't get the job. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that Gillick was pre-interviewed to determine whether Monty's vision would be carried out.
Third - No way in Hell does Theo Epstein come to Philly. Based on what I heard Jayson Stark relate, he's either totally out of baseball for this year or he'll take the gig in Washington. The ownership there is said to be hands-off, so he'd have the ability to build it from the foundation up without idiots like Larry Lucchino or Dave Montgomery standing behind him with a red-hot cattle prod.
Finally - I have no confidence whatsoever that a sea change is coming for the Phillies any time soon. Manuel and his staff of castoffs will be retained and the Phillies will continue to tinker with a flawed roster in the deluded hope that a move here or there will put them over the top. It won't. They have too many guys who strike out and they have too few pitchers who can get them into the 8th inning. Wagner's gone for good as well. There's another effect of not signing Hunsicker. Monty dragged his feet and utlimately picked someone who the general public would buy. He's already lost the core fans anyway with his idiotic decision making, and all he really cares about is putting asses in seats at the Bank anyway.
Good for you, Monty. You've accomplished what you set out to do. I hope you enjoy mediocrity because that's what this move will guarantee.
Phreak, Miller is good friends with Hunsicker and his comments were EXTREMELY biased.
(http://pdn.philly.com/sport.jpg)
QuoteGillick brings impressive resume
By PAUL HAGEN
hagenp@phillynews.com
PAT GILLICK has been general manager of the Toronto Blue Jays, Baltimore Orioles and Seattle Mariners. At each stop, his team went to the playoffs.
Phillies president Dave Montgomery is gambling he still has a few tricks up his 68-year-old sleeve.
A team that has visited the postseason just once since 1983 will announce today that Gillick has been hired to replace Ed Wade, who was fired Oct. 10, multiple baseball sources confirmed last night.
It had been apparent for days that the decision would come down to Gillick or former Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker, who has strong Philadelphia ties and an impressive resume of his own. Under his guidance, Houston made the playoffs five times in 9 years.
He walked away after the 2004 season, reportedly weary of front-office meddling, and the team he had built reached the World Series for the first time in franchise history.
As much as Hunsicker might have seemed to be a natural fit, a high-ranking club official said last night that the Phillies had heard "bad things" about him. It's considered likely, however, that these were sour-grapes comments made by executives in Houston who felt spurned when he walked away. That also could be a way of saying that Hunsicker, 54, might have been inclined to tell his bosses unpleasant truths.
He is expected to shortly accept a position as a senior baseball executive with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.
It also has been speculated that Gillick's age might have been an advantage. According to this theory, the expectation is that he will hold the post for a relatively short period of time and then the job will be handed off to Ruben Amaro Jr., an assistant GM under Wade.
Amaro, assistant general manager for scouting and player development Mike Arbuckle and Indians assistant general manager Chris Antonetti also were interviewed.
No matter how Machiavellian the behind-the-scenes maneuverings may have been, the Phillies hardly have to apologize for hiring Gillick.
While he will face unique challenges in Philadelphia - including but not limited to the fact that he inherits a team that had a $96 million payroll last season and appears locked in to several large and virtually untradable contracts - he has a proven track record over the years.
He became general manager of the expansion Blue Jays in their second year, 1978. In 17 years he helped build a powerful franchise that won division championships in 1985, 1989, 1991, 1992 and 1993, winning the World Series in the latter two seasons.
Still, by the end of the 1994 season, he was one of the lower-paid general managers in baseball. When he didn't get the raise he was looking for, he retired.
Gillick resurfaced with the Orioles, where he was the general manager from 1996-1998. Baltimore made the playoffs the first 2 years after a 13-year playoff absence. He left when his contract was up, reportedly because he had tired of clashing with hands-on owner Peter Angelos.
His next stop was Seattle. In his 4 years (2000-2003) the Mariners had a 393-255 record, the best in baseball during that span.
In a sport increasingly divided between the old-school method of building through scouting and player development and the new-school theories that stress statistical analysis, Gillick has a reputation for being a solid traditionalist.
He also has had a reputation as a general manager who is reluctant to pull the trigger on major deals, despite acquiring David Cone before the trading deadline in 1992 and getting Rickey Henderson a year later.
In July 2003, Gillick was characterized as follows in The Sporting News: "Some GMs express frustrations over Gillick's cautious manner in trade negotiations. Gillick hoards young pitching. He values team chemistry. And even though the Mariners' resources [at the time were] second only to the Yankees', he operates with limited resources - an issue that helped drive away former manager Lou Piniella."
Others who were close to Gillick at the time paint a different picture, saying Gillick was as frustrated as Piniella by ownership's unwillingness to up the ante to add a piece that could have put the team over the top.
And, in the same story, Gillick indicated that he realizes the importance of deadline deals. "At this time of year there's so much hype and emphasis on July 31 [that making a trade] gives a psychological lift to the players, to the fans, to everyone," he was quoted as saying. "It basically validates that you've got a good team. You're saying, 'Hey, we're going to make a run for it.' "
It is believed that Montgomery settled on Gillick late Monday. He then informed the partners, negotiated the details of Gillick's contract and informed the other candidates that he'd decided to go in a different direction.
Gillick is expected to maintain his full-time home in Toronto.
The fact that the Dodgers expressed a late interest doesn't appear to have delayed the process. While Gillick is a native of Southern California, he was supposedly miffed when new Dodgers owner Frank McCourt all but begged him to interview 2 years ago and then bragged that he'd hired the best man possible when he gave the job to unproven Paul DePodesta.
He also told friends after leaving the Mariners that the long commute between Toronto and Seattle had become tiresome. There are more than 60 nonstop flights daily between Toronto and Philadelphia and the time in the air is just over an hour.
He will have to hit the ground running. Among the issues on his plate: Trying to re-sign closer Billy Wagner, who already has filed for free agency; figuring out how to deal with the Jim Thome-Ryan Howard logjam at first base; determining the short-term futures of catcher Mike Lieberthal, third baseman David Bell and centerfielder Kenny Lofton; and finding ways to strengthen the rotation, the bullpen (even if Wagner returns) and the bench.
He's succeeded before. And Montgomery, who may be staking his own future on this move, is clearly hoping he can do it again.
QuoteAs much as Hunsicker might have seemed to be a natural fit, a high-ranking club official said last night that the Phillies had heard "bad things" about him. It's considered likely, however, that these were sour-grapes comments made by executives in Houston who felt spurned when he walked away. That also could be a way of saying that Hunsicker, 54, might have been inclined to tell his bosses unpleasant truths.
QuoteIt also has been speculated that Gillick's age might have been an advantage. According to this theory, the expectation is that he will hold the post for a relatively short period of time and then the job will be handed off to Ruben Amaro Jr., an assistant GM under Wade.
QuoteHe also has had a reputation as a general manager who is reluctant to pull the trigger on major deals, despite acquiring David Cone before the trading deadline in 1992 and getting Rickey Henderson a year later.
These 3 things are what I hate about this.. :-\
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 02, 2005, 09:02:54 AM
Phreak, Miller is good friends with Hunsicker and his comments were EXTREMELY biased.
Ah, I see. I didn't know they were boys. I didn't hear the interview only went off of what was said here.
I still am not excited by this though. :(
i agree with others, if Gillick was hired on his qualifications alone, there wouldn't be as much as a problem with this. but the fact you are hearing all this peripheral stuff is what makes this just another phillies move. hiring Gillick so Amaro can take over, Gillick telling monty that the team doesn't need any changes, etc...
Rome, Nice letter. Almost makes me wish I cared about something enough to write a letter about it.
yeah that doesnt sound good to me. He may be ok short term, but it all seems to add up to a stop gap GM who might get lucky with this young nucleus of Phillies. Doesnt seem like an overhaul of any sort and its no suprise that Monty got a half-puppet to play around until the next yes man is hired for the long term.
QuoteAbreu a Gold Glove winner
It will be announced today that Phillies rightfielder Bobby Abreu is a Rawlings Gold Glove winner for 2005.
While that may surprise some people who have criticized Abreu's fielding over the years, it's worth remembering that this award is voted on by managers and coaches who frequently appear to allow offensive numbers to influence their selections for what is supposed to be a defensive award.
In other news, three more Phillies have joined closer Billy Wagner in filing for free agency: righthanders Ugueth Urbina and Terry Adams and backup catcher Todd Pratt.
Oh boy, the Abreu haters are going to have a field day with this. I think SunMo, Eskin and Macnow's heads might explode. :-D
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 02, 2005, 09:09:19 AM
QuoteAbreu a Gold Glove winner
It will be announced today that Phillies rightfielder Bobby Abreu is a Rawlings Gold Glove winner for 2005.
While that may surprise some people who have criticized Abreu's fielding over the years, it's worth remembering that this award is voted on by managers and coaches who frequently appear to allow offensive numbers to influence their selections for what is supposed to be a defensive award.
In other news, three more Phillies have joined closer Billy Wagner in filing for free agency: righthanders Ugueth Urbina and Terry Adams and backup catcher Todd Pratt.
Oh boy, the Abreu haters are going to have a field day with this. I think SunMo, Eskin and Macnow's heads might explode. :-D
:boom :-D
i never thought I'd see the day that Abreu had a gold glove and Rollins didn't. that tells you all you need to know about how the choose the award.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 02, 2005, 08:57:12 AM
Quote from: Wingspan on November 01, 2005, 11:20:46 PM
i may be speaking out of turn here...but what if this guy works out?
He very well could. But I wanted Hunsicker.
Gillick was over .500 in each of his 3 stops and has won a WS.
But I don't like the whole "sources say he said this team needs little to no tinkering" and the suggestion that Ed Wade Jr. will take over for him in 2-3 years.
If I was Hunsicker I'd be pissed too. I cannot wait for the article that someone will surely write that goes more in depth with what TOisGod said Miller said on the radio. It'll be just like last year with Leyland. Hunsicker will tell us that he told Monty The Moron the team needed change and that doomed him.
I bet on it.
Farg David Montgomery.
along the tinkering part. just going by the record of the phils the past few years, why would you blow up the entire team? in reality, it just needs some tinkering. (albeit, the tinkering should be in the form of an ace, etc...)...but they are not that far off.
everyone wanted huntzinger from houston....but i never really understood why. just because he told the owner to farg off? who let billy wagner go? who let abreu go? who willingly took on brandon duckworth? to my knowledge. the astros still havent won a world series.
gillick has a very good track record, with latin, japanese, and american scouting...his teams have won a world series. i dont know how good he is, or if he is the answer, but to me he seems pretty qualified for the job.
and on top of that, hunsinger quit on the 'stros because of owner interaction and/or restrictions, what leads you to beleive that the phillies would just let him have free reign?
to me this just seems like a lot of bitching about a guy who actually has a better tack record. sure he may be a little older. but everyone now assumes the team is worse off. i just dont get it.
this team needs more than tinkering, i'm sick of hearing that.
C - huge problem
1B - problem, who are you keeping, you are sending off
2B - fine
SS - fine
3B - huge problem
OF - need CF, Burrell and Abreu cannot continue to be in the same lineup
SP - Lieber is ok, Meyers is ok, Lidle is a decent 5th, that's all they have
Bullpen - who's the closer? who's the setup man? who's the lefty specialist
This club needs changes, Wing. They've tried to win with this nucleus for 3 years and it hasn't happened. And you're talking to a Phillies homer here.
Too many strikeouts, no team speed, shoddy pitching, no bench and several other little complaints I have.
I want Hunsicker because he knows how to build a team. I don't care that he told Drayton McClain to go farg himself. But I do like that he wasn't willing to be a puppet and made bold moves.
Like I said, I'm not totally hating on Gillick, I'm more pissed at Monty because he pulled the same shtein as last year. He took the path of least resistance like a spineless farg that he is.
I'm rooting for Gillick, but I don't like the stuff about Amaro being the next guy and the fact that Monty doesn't like to hear that his floundering franchise only needs tinkering so he chooses that person instead of the guy who said they need changes.
I don't hate Abreu. He's a serviceable player.
That said, awarding him a gold glove is utterly preposterous.
:-D
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 02, 2005, 09:27:45 AM
I don't hate Abreu. He's a serviceable player.
That said, awarding him a gold glove is utterly preposterous.
:-D
I agree completely.
P.S. Gillick blows goats.
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 02, 2005, 09:56:32 AM
P.S. Gillick blows goats.
See that makes no sense.
He OBVIOUSLY doesn't blow goats. The one reason people are upset is because he's only a short term guy....to be replaced by another yes man like Amaro Jr or Arbuckle. But to say he blow goats is completely moronic. The guy DOES have a great resume. ignoring that fact is ridiculous. If he were 10 years younger, he'd be a great choice.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 02, 2005, 09:58:45 AM
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 02, 2005, 09:56:32 AM
P.S. Gillick blows goats.
See that makes no sense.
He OBVIOUSLY doesn't blow goats. The one reason people are upset is because he's only a short term guy....to be replaced by another yes man like Amaro Jr or Arbuckle. But to say he blow goats is completely moronic. The guy DOES have a great resume. ignoring that fact is ridiculous. If he were 10 years younger, he'd be a great choice.
i agree. but right now everybody is pretty pissed off because the Phillies made another "phillies-type" move.
He blows goats because of all the surrounding information and because it's obvious that Monty wanted to hire someone that wouldn't "shake things up" too much before he gets to hand the reins to little Wade.
This team will suck next year. I'm talking uncompetitive, not just barely missing playoffs again.
abreu won a gold glove? and rollins didnt? abreu should give his to rollins. thats a joke. the guy is a mediocre defensive outfielder, but a spectacular hitter. jimmy appears to have been shafted for the the 3rd year in a row.
Jimmy better get his. Cesar Izturis robbed him last year.
On the other hand...when will David Bell get his silvers slugger award? He's long overdue on that.
Speaking of David Bell...
Didn't Gillick ship his ass outta Seattle?
Maybe there is some hope here too!!
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 02, 2005, 10:00:22 AM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 02, 2005, 09:58:45 AM
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 02, 2005, 09:56:32 AM
P.S. Gillick blows goats.
See that makes no sense.
He OBVIOUSLY doesn't blow goats. The one reason people are upset is because he's only a short term guy....to be replaced by another yes man like Amaro Jr or Arbuckle. But to say he blow goats is completely moronic. The guy DOES have a great resume. ignoring that fact is ridiculous. If he were 10 years younger, he'd be a great choice.
i agree. but right now everybody is pretty pissed off because the Phillies made another "phillies-type" move.
LOL...which is exactly what I said.
And FF, Randy Miller is the guy who said that. Randy Miller is FURIOUS about Hunsicker not coming here because the 2 of them are good friends.
Phreak....I like the idea of Bell going bye bye.
Randarino (http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/102-11022005-563895.html)
Quote"I ain't talking," said Hunsicker, a Philadelphia native who badly wanted the job. "What can I say? It wasn't meant to be."
Quote"It was very quick," Arbuckle said. "David said he wanted to give an update on what's happening. He said, 'I think you're qualified, but we're doing something else.' He used the line 'We're going with experience.' "
QuoteAs for Manuel, his job is safe at least for another year.
"I used to run into Pat all the time, and I feel like I know him," Manuel said. "Hopefully, I'll get to know him better. He's a winner."
Randy Miller = GOOD FRIENDS WITH HUNSICKER
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 02, 2005, 10:24:43 AM
Randy Miller = GOOD FRIENDS WITH HUNSICKER
agreed, but that really doesn't have anything to do with those quotes, they seem pretty straightforward to me.
Gillick's old and past his time. There is no way he will be as aggressive as this team needs right now.
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 02, 2005, 10:50:02 AM
Gillick's old and past his time.
Based on what? I'm sure you've been following his career yearly. :-D
His last WS title was...???
the red sox should hire bucky dent as their gm.
noon press conference. will be on phillies.com, maybe comcast?
Quote from: MDS on November 02, 2005, 11:45:59 AM
noon press conference. will be on phillies.com, maybe comcast?
and WIP
yea its on comcast
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 02, 2005, 10:50:02 AM
Gillick's old and past his time. There is no way he will be as aggressive as this team needs right now.
you do realize he doesnt actually have to play, right?
PC is on now...
Monty's full of hope and energy :puke
I think I'm just numb at this point. I'm numb because the Eagles appear to be crumbling before my eyes and because yet again, the Phillies had a rare opportunity to radically change their fortunes and they blew it.
Go Flyers, I guess?
:'(
he started off telling these stupid stories :-D
Alright, let's start with predictions on how many games the Phils will win this season. I'm gonna go ahead and have to say 88.
62
Mr. Gillick sez:
-the challenge is to win 5 more games than last year
-Ed Wade has put together a good nucleus here
-we've got a great team here
-telling some inane story from the '93 series (great memory to bring up dummy)
-rambling on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.....
-the Phillies are a team with holes that need to be filled
-won't make any changes to the FO or coaches
-concerned about the farm system
-won't make changes just to make changes, he will make moves he feels are good for the team
-Jim Thome/Ryan Howard situation - thinks he's blessed to have to quality players like them, it's a blessing because they can both be starters and you can trade one of them to get something you need. Probably not a good situation to have them both here next year.
-talked to Billy Wagner this morning, top priority for them
-there is sufficient money available to make moves, but they have to be smart with it
-thinks they have to add at least one starter, ideally a #1 or #2
-the Phillies are more attractive than the Dodgers because they have a better team
-Burrell and Abreu are 2 of the better corner players in the game ???
-there are no untouchables on this team
-it's part of his job to establish a better connection with the fans
WIP cut it off
"sufficient"
hmmmmm
pretty much said bell is coming back. i love this cat already.
David Bell would be fine if he never had to hit a righty.
someone needs to take him out. i vote rjs. itll get him back into the baseball life.
what they did was hire a known and established baseball name to appease the fan base...but they hired a 68 year old one because they knew that he wouldnt turn down the job or ask any hard questions regarding his role in the position...because at 68 you are just happy to have a job...i fully expect amaro to be co-gm while gillick is there...which will last about 2-3 years where upon gillick will retire and amaro will become the sole gm
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 02, 2005, 02:24:18 PM
what they did was hire a known and established baseball name to appease the fan base...but they hired a 68 year old one because they knew that he wouldnt turn down the job or ask any hard questions regarding his role in the position...because at 68 you are just happy to have a job...i fully expect amaro to be co-gm while gillick is there...which will last about 2-3 years where upon gillick will retire and amaro will become the sole gm
they probably won't make Amaro an official co-gm, but Gillick already said in his PC that he likes to have multiple opinons when making a decision. translation = me and amaro are going to make decisions holding hands.
No way Gillick lasts three full years.
No way, no how. Two years, max. If the Phillies make the playoffs next year by some miracle, then Amaro steps in and Gillick gets bounced upstairs to fluff Monty's corn cob.
In any case, judging from what I've read and heard from Gillick thus far, there's really not going to be any substantive changes made whatsoever.
He's reluctant to trade Burrell or Abreu for a #1 (idiotic), Manuel and his pals are staying (moronic), Bell is a gamer (laughable), and his stated goal is to win 5 more games. Yes, that's right, I said five more games. Not 10. Not getting to 100 wins and winning the division going away. No. Just win five more games and the season is a success.
Just infuriating.
1. how do you know burrell and abreu can get you a 1?
2. manuel and his staff did a good job. they werent the reason this team didnt make the playoffs.
3. bell rules. dont diss.
Quote from: MDS on November 02, 2005, 03:24:30 PM
2. manuel and his staff did a good job. they were the reason this team didnt make the playoffs.
Freudian slip?
maybe.....maybe....
Quote from: MDS on November 02, 2005, 03:24:30 PM
1. how do you know burrell and abreu can get you a 1?
2. manuel and his staff did a good job. they werent the reason this team didnt make the playoffs.
3. bell rules. dont diss.
1. I don't. The question was posed hypothetically and he answered that he'd be "reluctant" to do so.
2. Don't make me laugh.
3. Concur.
manuel was fine overall. really. its not his fault urbina blew a bunch of games, that he never got a better 3b or c option, that the bench was awful.
Abreu won a farging gold glove.
Quote from: MDS on November 02, 2005, 05:05:04 PM
manuel was fine overall. really. its not his fault urbina blew a bunch of games, that he never got a better 3b or c option, that the bench was awful.
Ummm... did you read what you wrote? Judging from the paragraph above, the Phillies are not in good shape as Gillick suggested.
They have no 3B, no catcher, no everyday CF, they have two 1B's neither of which can play the outfield. They have no bullpen to speak of, their starting pitching is the very definition of mediocre, their bench players are a joke and their manager and coaching staff are woefully over-matched almost on a nightly basis.
Add to those facts the idea that the remainder of the starting line-up strikes out more often than Pete Incaviglia on a bender, and you've got massive trouble.
Thinks are not alright. Things are zesty beyond belief and we have this assclown coming in here saying things are honkydory.
Yeah, things are great. :-D
I like that he said he wants more pitchers.
I don't like the "we only need a little tweaking" schtick.
Oh well. This is what we've got so its time to hope he helps.
He can't be worse that Wade, right?
no one can. well, unless eskin was the gm.
Source says that Ryan Howard will be named Rookie of the year:
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15506102&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18170&rfi=6
QuotePHILADELPHIA - The National League Rookie of the Year Award won't be handed out until Monday. However, a league source delivered a strong hint that Phillies first baseman Ryan Howard will be named the winner of the award in honor of his powerful performance over the final three months of the season.
Howard hit .288 with 22 home runs and 63 RBIs in just 312 at-bats and set an all-time rookie record with 10 homers in September. That performance has created one of the biggest conundrums new general manager Pat Gillick will encounter this winter: Who will be the Phils' Opening Day first baseman in 2006, Jim Thome, or Howard?
That's farging awesome! :yay :yay :yay
QuotePhils deserve a Pat on the back
(Thu, Nov/03/2005)
PHILADELPHIA - Pat Gillick didn't wear his 1993 World Series ring Wednesday, smartly deciding not to taunt the very people who had just hired him as their general manager.
It was a subtle move for his first day with the Phillies, and that is Gillick. He is subtle, and his words Wednesday were less revelatory than his 26-year history as one of baseball's best executives.
At first, to listen to Gillick at his introductory press conference was to think Phillies president David Montgomery had given him a list of Ed Wade platitudes to memorize and recite. The Phillies, Gillick said, "have a great team here. ... You're usually coming to a club that needs major rebuilding, reconstructing. I don't think that's the case here."
So surely, there were Phillies fans - specifically those who wanted a GM willing to take a flamethrower to the entire roster, sparing only Chase Utley and Ryan Howard - who went into apoplexy when they heard Gillick speak. Twelve years without the playoffs, one World Series in 123 years, and he's telling us how good the Phillies are? Oh, no, another yes man.
Which, of course, is wrong. In the choice between Gillick and former Houston GM Gerry Hunsicker, the Phillies could hardly go wrong. They cannot be blamed for hiring an executive who, with Toronto, Baltimore and Seattle, built nine playoff teams and the 1992 and '93 Blue Jays, winners of back-to-back World Series, by making big trades for big players: Joe Carter, Roberto Alomar, David Cone, Rickey Henderson.
And, truth be told, the Phillies should be credited for hiring someone with the background and backbone to tell them what they might not want to hear, even if he'll do so subtly.
It has been suggested that the Phillies were fearful of hiring Hunsicker because of his outspokenness. While with the Astros, he didn't hesitate to take on owner Drayton McLane and fight their battles about baseball philosophy out in the open. The Phillies abhor such public messiness, and maybe Gillick, from that perspective, was the less threatening of their two candidates.
But the man Montgomery hired is no wallflower, and he never has been. Make no mistake: Regardless of what he said Wednesday, Gillick won't stand for Montgomery or anyone else in the organization meddling with his vision for his new team's future. He never has.
In Baltimore, he clashed with owner Peter Angelos, leaving one year after Angelos fired manager Davey Johnson, and the Orioles haven't been back to the postseason since. In Seattle, with the Mariners leading the AL West in 2000 and 2001, he was lambasted for his purported reluctance to make deals at the trading deadline - the same sin for which Wade was rightly criticized. So someone asked him Wednesday: Did he want to make deadline moves in Seattle, and did ownership there prevent him from doing so?
"Hmmm..." he said, oh-so coyly. "We needed a little injection."
That conflict ultimately forced Gillick, 68, out as Seattle's GM and into the "special consulting" position he held for two years, until Montgomery came calling.
"I tried to convince the people to go in my direction, and I couldn't convince them to do it," Gillick said. "Consequently, you either stay put and accept that fact or move on."
For his eight years as the Phillies' GM, Wade proved he was willing to accept everything. He was a good solider, mostly because he had to be. He didn't have the cachet Gillick has, didn't have the reputation or the experience or the jewelry to justify telling Montgomery and his silent partners what needed to be done to win a world championship.
Gillick has those qualities, and he has the luxury of knowing that, if he walks away, the Phillies will be the ones worse for it. He has more power here than Wade ever did. Already on Wednesday morning, he telephoned Billy Wagner, hoping to coax the free-agent closer back to the Phillies.
Gillick said the team had to add, at a minimum, another starting pitcher, and that was how it went all afternoon - Gillick subtly suggesting that he would take a good, hard look at who the Phillies are, and what must be done.
"I think change is good," he said. "But you don't want to go off half-cocked and make changes. If you make any changes, you've got to evaluate the people and give them an opportunity and be fair with it. But after you give a person enough time, you may have to make a change."
Would the Phillies be willing to make those tough choices?
"I know they're committed to go to the playoffs, and if it means making a change, I think they would make changes."
Finally, too, they have a man you'd trust to make them.
If he's given full autonomy over the organization, I have no problem with his selection as G.M.
He won't and that's the problem in a nutshell.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 03, 2005, 03:06:15 PM
If he's given full autonomy over the organization, I have no problem with his selection as G.M.
He won't and that's the problem in a nutshell.
in reality, if gillick wont...than neither would have anyone else. and this is all for naught
im shocked that chris wheelers love child jeff francouer didnt get it. well good job ryan howard. but seriously, how funny would it be to see the rookie of the year sent to scranton because they could trade thome? id die of pain and laughter.
minnesota paper says twins and phils have been talking thome deal. boom.,
Quote from: MDS on November 04, 2005, 06:31:03 PM
minnesota paper says twins and phils have been talking thome deal. boom.,
:o Phils would have to eat a large chunk of Thome's contract to make that work, I would think.
Did the paper speculate who the Twins would be sending in the trade?
A Mr. Hunter, perhaps? :paranoid
It's been rumored that the Phils would have to eat $36M of the contract. Yeah, that'll happen....
your kinda gambling with making a deal. if thome comes to spring training (dont think itll be a disraction because everyone will know hes just there to audition for a trade) and gets hurt, then youre farged. If he proves hes the old jim thome, his trade value will sore. So, well see what kind of gambler Gillick is.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on November 04, 2005, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: MDS on November 04, 2005, 06:31:03 PM
minnesota paper says twins and phils have been talking thome deal. boom.,
:o Phils would have to eat a large chunk of Thome's contract to make that work, I would think.
Did the paper speculate who the Twins would be sending in the trade?
A Mr. Hunter, perhaps? :paranoid
Dude...if they got Torii Hunter I think I'd urinate myself with glee.
I love Hunter.
But hey'll probably get Nick Punto back.
Gotta link, MDS?
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 04, 2005, 08:28:24 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on November 04, 2005, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: MDS on November 04, 2005, 06:31:03 PM
minnesota paper says twins and phils have been talking thome deal. boom.,
:o Phils would have to eat a large chunk of Thome's contract to make that work, I would think.
Did the paper speculate who the Twins would be sending in the trade?
A Mr. Hunter, perhaps? :paranoid
Dude...if they got Torii Hunter I think I'd urinate myself with glee.
I love Hunter.
But hey'll probably get Nick Punto back.
Gotta link, MDS?
Torii's one of my favorite players, bar none. He would definitely make the outfield defense 100% better.
Not sure if he solves many of the problems that plague the Phils' lineup (too many K's, lack of scoring consistency, etc), though.
I wouldn't care. Just gimme #48 in CF and I'm happy.
Then trade Abreu or Burrell for a SP.
Re-sign Wags too.
hunter= injury waiting to happen. i dont want him. hes a fantastic defensive outfielder, a decent hitter, but we have other viable cf options. no sense to committing to a non-elite cf (and hes not) with the likes of victorino, roberson and bourn waiting.
QuoteThe Twins have verified that they have had conversations with Philadelphia management regarding a possible transaction for first baseman Jim Thome, where the Phillies would have to pick up a good share of Thome's contract. The deal has a balance of $43.5 million remaining for three years.
Shut up and stop raining on my wishes. :evil
:-D hey he would be the only guy who could make the defense okay with howard in left. but obviously that makes no sense with thome being involved in the deal.
seriously, that would be setting the team back. hunter is nothing special, and he'll just reputre his shoulder crashing into the wall or something.
Phreak has liquid explosion
QuoteThe Twins have had discussions with the Phillies about Jim Thome, who is owed $43.5 million over the next three years.
The Phillies would probably have to eat a bigger portion of the contract that they'd like in order to send Thome to Minnesota, and even if something is agreed to, Thome would have to waive his no-trade clause. A deal is unlikely, but the talks could get very interesting if expanded to include Torii Hunter and Jason Michaels
Quote from: MDS on November 04, 2005, 07:43:44 PM
If he proves hes the old jim thome, his trade value will sore.
Jeezus. Go Temple academics!
Quote from: MDS on November 04, 2005, 10:22:35 PM
Phreak has liquid explosion
QuoteThe Twins have had discussions with the Phillies about Jim Thome, who is owed $43.5 million over the next three years.
The Phillies would probably have to eat a bigger portion of the contract that they'd like in order to send Thome to Minnesota, and even if something is agreed to, Thome would have to waive his no-trade clause. A deal is unlikely, but the talks could get very interesting if expanded to include Torii Hunter and Jason Michaels
Oh my...I just shat myself a little.
Where'd you get that?
Make the deal, Gillick!
This is the Phillies we're talking about, right fellas? :-D
No way this happens. Sorry, Jay. You'll just have to urinate and defecate on yourself for your own pleasure instead.
:-[
QuoteThe Twins have had discussions with the Phillies about Jim Thome, who is owed $43.5 million over the next three years.
The Phillies would probably have to eat a bigger portion of the contract that they'd like in order to send Thome to Minnesota, and even if something is agreed to, Thome would have to waive his no-trade clause. A deal is unlikely, but the talks could get very interesting if expanded to include Torii Hunter and Jason Michaels
why do some of the WIP jackoffs keep throwing this $85M number around?
Quote from: Wingspan on November 05, 2005, 12:29:43 PM
why do some of the WIP jackoffs keep throwing this $85M number around?
LOL, isn't that just a loaded question
if hunter has 1-2 years left on his deal, and we can keep an insurence policy like victorino or michaels, i would do it. but anything longer than that will kill roberson chances of making it here.
Quote from: Wingspan on November 05, 2005, 12:29:43 PM
QuoteThe Twins have had discussions with the Phillies about Jim Thome, who is owed $43.5 million over the next three years.
The Phillies would probably have to eat a bigger portion of the contract that they'd like in order to send Thome to Minnesota, and even if something is agreed to, Thome would have to waive his no-trade clause. A deal is unlikely, but the talks could get very interesting if expanded to include Torii Hunter and Jason Michaels
why do some of the WIP jackoffs keep throwing this $85M number around?
The $85 was the total guaranteed worth of the contract (2003-2008). He's got three guaranteed years left, plus a club option for 2009 (either $12 M or $3 M buyout.
QuoteHoward's end. One of the topics Gillick discussed was the first-base situation with Ryan Howard and Jim Thome. There was talk that Howard could try the outfield again, either in winter ball or spring training.
"I don't think anybody really can say with any type of certainty right now that he can play another position," Gillick said.
Does that mean they keep looking at him as a first baseman?
"Right," he said.
Ticket prices. Richard Deats, the Phillies' vice president of ticket sales, said the price of season tickets next year will not increase. He said the Phillies are still evaluating what they will do with single-game tickets.
He said he expects to know those prices early next month.
Invoices to season-ticket holders could be mailed as early as next week.
Howard can't play the outfield. For the one billionth time.
is his contract longer than 3 years maybe? i really don't know. but all you hear on the radio is how thome signed a bigillion dollar contract that is for the next 30 years or so...
its actually 5.5 billion for the next 2300 years. get it right
Quote from: Geowhizzer on November 05, 2005, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on November 05, 2005, 12:29:43 PM
QuoteThe Twins have had discussions with the Phillies about Jim Thome, who is owed $43.5 million over the next three years.
The Phillies would probably have to eat a bigger portion of the contract that they'd like in order to send Thome to Minnesota, and even if something is agreed to, Thome would have to waive his no-trade clause. A deal is unlikely, but the talks could get very interesting if expanded to include Torii Hunter and Jason Michaels
why do some of the WIP jackoffs keep throwing this $85M number around?
The $85 was the total guaranteed worth of the contract (2003-2008). He's got three guaranteed years left, plus a club option for 2009 (either $12 M or $3 M buyout.
oh...ok. makes sense...eskin, among others (i have heard macnow and gar-gag-me) talk about a 85M buyout, repeatedly.
Wingspan, you're shocked by this?
nope, not at all.
just looking for some factual clarification.
The best facts you can get are those not found on WIP. :-D
$43.5 mill is still a lot of cake.
they still won't make the playoffs....................ever.
http://www.firepatgillick.com :-D
before he even does anything. wow.
Why I hate Philadelphia fans.
Fire the guy hired after Pat Gillick is fired!!
Quote from: MURP on November 05, 2005, 03:28:09 PM
Fire the guy hired after Pat Gillick is fired!!
amaro?
Indeed, Hunter has one left on his deal. Gotta get something more than him, but he could work as a rent-a-player situation until Roberson is ready next year.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 05, 2005, 03:24:47 PM
Why I hate Philadelphia fans.
Surely, you can see that this is tongue-in-cheek and at least attempt to chuckle with us... ??
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 05, 2005, 03:24:47 PM
Why I hate Philadelphia fans.
i actually think this is a parody. reading the front page it's really tough to take seriously.
QuoteNovember 2, 2005:
Day 1 of the Pat Gillick reign of incompetence!!
This fiasco has gone on long enough.
:-D
someone start up trademikecostanzo.com
Ryan Howard won Rookie of the Year. :yay
:yay
Devil Taveras second, Wheelers love child Francouer third. Huston Street won the AL one.
But i think its time to send him to Scranton for some at bats.
Now Gillick has more ammo to trade him!
Nah.
Now that he has a little bit of a resume Ted Lilly isn't enough.
Now we'll get Ted Lilly and Shea Hillebrand! :D
If Gillick trades away Howard before this season, I'm finding a new team until the Phillies get new ownership.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 07, 2005, 04:02:52 PM
Nah.
Now that he has a little bit of a resume Ted Lilly isn't enough.
Now we'll get Ted Lilly and Shea Hillebrand! :D
:-D
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 07, 2005, 04:04:30 PM
If Gillick trades away Howard before this season, I'm finding a new team until the Phillies get new ownership.
here here. I'm with ya.
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 07, 2005, 04:04:30 PM
If Gillick trades away Howard before this season, I'm finding a new team until the Phillies get new ownership.
You DO know that's not happening, right? LOL...Gillick is in love with this kid.
I guess you and Gillick are buddies then?
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 07, 2005, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 07, 2005, 04:04:30 PM
If Gillick trades away Howard before this season, I'm finding a new team until the Phillies get new ownership.
You DO know that's not happening, right? LOL...Gillick is in love with this kid.
I'm pretty sure it's not happening, yes. But I'm just drawing the line in the sand... just in case.
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 07, 2005, 08:15:30 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 07, 2005, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 07, 2005, 04:04:30 PM
If Gillick trades away Howard before this season, I'm finding a new team until the Phillies get new ownership.
You DO know that's not happening, right? LOL...Gillick is in love with this kid.
I'm pretty sure it's not happening, yes. But I'm just drawing the line in the sand... just in case.
:-D
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 07, 2005, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 07, 2005, 04:04:30 PM
If Gillick trades away Howard before this season, I'm finding a new team until the Phillies get new ownership.
You DO know that's not happening, right? LOL...Gillick is in love with this kid.
Who isn't?
:paranoid
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 07, 2005, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 07, 2005, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 07, 2005, 04:04:30 PM
If Gillick trades away Howard before this season, I'm finding a new team until the Phillies get new ownership.
You DO know that's not happening, right? LOL...Gillick is in love with this kid.
Who isn't?
:paranoid
Ed Wade. ;)
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 07, 2005, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 07, 2005, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 07, 2005, 04:04:30 PM
If Gillick trades away Howard before this season, I'm finding a new team until the Phillies get new ownership.
You DO know that's not happening, right? LOL...Gillick is in love with this kid.
Who isn't?
:paranoid
Jim Thome?
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 07, 2005, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 07, 2005, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 07, 2005, 04:04:30 PM
If Gillick trades away Howard before this season, I'm finding a new team until the Phillies get new ownership.
You DO know that's not happening, right? LOL...Gillick is in love with this kid.
Who isn't?
:paranoid
Larry Bowa?
quotes n stuff (http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content_1p_box.asp?ID=18795)
Even Scott Rolen offered congratulations... :o
That article had a lot of words and stuff. Didn't like it.
you can always count on windmill dancy for something thought-provoking
Quote"I think with the numbers he put up and the year he had, he definitely deserves this honor."
Brilliant.
Quote"I thought he did a great job. He definitely deserves the award and I feel he kept the Phillies in the race the whole time Thome was out."
-- Larry Bowa, Yankees third base coach
Something tells me that L-Bo had a frown on his face and they cut his quote short. I imagine he also said:
"The only reason he hit that many HRs was because of that joke of a ballpark. Oh yeah, and thank Ed Wade too. If he knew how to dial a telephone like normal humans Howard would've been a Blue Jay".
Urbina charged with attemped murder (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/11/08/urbina.charges.ap/index.html?cnn=yes)
If it was a murder charge, he could play MLB for the Ravens. Those guys gotta stay the hell outta third world countries after they become multi-millionaires.
he murders as well as he saves.
I like his technique. Sick him on TO.
From the 'No shtein, Sherlock" file...
Quote"This of course can in some way hurt his career as a professional ballplayer, and all will depend on the way in which he is brought before justice," said defense lawyer Jose Luis Tamayo.
:-D
he sucked this year. but if he goes to jail, the whole arbitration thing wont work out.
If OJ can buy a not guilty verdict in the US, I'm sure Urbina won't have a problem doing it in freaking Venezuela.
so a sillies player is accused of attempted murder....nice!
Quote from: mhunt on November 09, 2005, 08:20:45 AM
so a sillies player is accused of attempted murder....nice!
He's not a Phillies player.
Wagner (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/13116853.htm)
Quote"The longer it takes, the more chance there is of them being overtaken by another team," Wagner said. "Starting Friday, it's going to be harder and harder for the Phillies to have my ear.
"I think it's only right that I hear what other teams have to say - especially a great situation like the Mets. And I'm still hoping the Braves and Washington will call."
.
.
.
"It comes down to the team that is prepared to win," Wagner said. "What the Mets don't have is that I played in Philly and I'm comfortable there. That's a big part of my decision."
But comfort won't trump the chance to win, and Wagner wonders whether the Phillies, as currently constructed, can win.
"I enjoyed Philly, but there are huge holes that need to be filled, and they're dealing with a tight budget," he said. "It's awful hard for me to see how they can afford me and make the necessary adjustments they need to get better. It'll be interesting what Pat says."
Gillick says the Phillies need to improve their starting pitching and bullpen. He will have to be creative to do that with $78 million committed to 11 players and a big offer on the table to Wagner.
"We need help in the bullpen," Wagner said. "Madson's going in the rotation. We need a second closer for the eighth inning. We need power pitching for the sixth and seventh.
"My goal is to play in the playoffs and win a championship. I don't want to be in a situation where I'm sitting there saying, 'Well, we could have used another pitcher, but we didn't have the budget.' "
blah blah blah he doesnt shut up
Quote from: MDS on November 09, 2005, 10:00:00 AM
blah blah blah he doesnt shut up
Is he WRONG? No. He's dead on with everything he said.
yea but its all the time. im not defending phillies managment, but he's whining and blabing gets annoying. i still want him signed. he's very good.
he is kinda scummy. he said he would give them a hometown discount and then went back on it.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 09, 2005, 10:29:10 AM
he is kinda scummy. he said he would give them a hometown discount and then went back on it.
He wants 3 years. He's never wavered from that.
how can the same people bash and bash brian westbrook's contract negotiations, then come around and not do the same with wagner?
neither were technically anything they said (or are saying)...
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 10:48:08 AM
how can the same people bash and bash brian westbrook's contract negotiations, then come around and not do the same with wagner?
neither were technically anything they said (or are saying)...
Because Westbrook already HAD A 1.43 MILLION DOLLAR ONE YEAR CONTRACT
THAT HE SIGNED.Wagner is free to go where ever he wants.
He's trying to hold the Phillies hostage. Look at the 3 teams he mentioned. All divisional rivals...
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 09, 2005, 10:37:49 AM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 09, 2005, 10:29:10 AM
he is kinda scummy. he said he would give them a hometown discount and then went back on it.
He wants 3 years. He's never wavered from that.
yeah, but the money has gone up from 24 million to now what? 30?
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 09, 2005, 10:49:36 AM
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 10:48:08 AM
how can the same people bash and bash brian westbrook's contract negotiations, then come around and not do the same with wagner?
neither were technically anything they said (or are saying)...
Because Westbrook already HAD A 1.43 MILLION DOLLAR ONE YEAR CONTRACT THAT HE SIGNED.
Wagner is free to go where ever he wants.
you know he wanted a long term deal before that, and you know that he was pretty much forced into signing that in order to meet a deadline which is slipping my mind.
westbrook and wagner's situation are pretty close to being the same as each other. they both know what they want, and if the philly teams did not, or will not give him what he wants, he knows someone else will. (westbrook got what he wanted, and wagner will get what he wants).
wagner is not holding the phillies hostage, he simply wants the most he can get, and he isnt stupid, he knows the phillies will not give him what he wants.
He told the Phils that if they don't give him the 3/$30M that he wants, he's going to walk to a divisional rival. He knows he has them by the balls because they have no other great solutions for a plan B. Urbina isn't coming back, Madson isn't a closer, Padilla isn't a closer, there's no one in the farm system, B.J. Ryan is headed to the Yankees or Red Sox, Hoffman wants the same amount and is more injury prone than Wagner, and the best of the rest is fatass Bob Wickman. How is that not holding them hostage?
how can an UFA hold someone hostage? If the Phillies want him they pony up the money. If they dont want to give him the money they dont have too. Its pretty cut and dry.
Quote from: MURP on November 09, 2005, 11:15:30 AM
how can an UFA hold someone hostage? If the Phillies want him they pony up the money. If they dont want to give him the money they dont have too. Its pretty cut and dry.
what he said.
Just get his ass signed.
No Wagner = no playoffs
PAY THE fargING GUY AND GET IT DONE!!
His remarks about the Mets are BS. They blow. They are no closer to the playoffs than the Phils.
he knows the mets suck but they will out bid the phillies for wagner. so, he is simply forcing the phillies to get better and spend more money so he win a championship. his talk gets irratating, but maybe this will work.
urbina would come back if he was the closer. but i think teams are gonna attempt to distance themselves from a guy who was just arrested for attempted murder. yea, that doesnt sound too good.
get gordon as an 8th inning guy. wagner would accept that as his set-up man.
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 09, 2005, 11:00:57 AM
He told the Phils that if they don't give him the 3/$30M that he wants, he's going to walk to a divisional rival. He knows he has them by the balls because they have no other great solutions for a plan B. Urbina isn't coming back, Madson isn't a closer, Padilla isn't a closer, there's no one in the farm system, B.J. Ryan is headed to the Yankees or Red Sox, Hoffman wants the same amount and is more injury prone than Wagner, and the best of the rest is fatass Bob Wickman. How is that not holding them hostage?
because it's not like the phillies offered him the 3/$30 he is asking and then refused to sign it.
they just wont offer it, right or wrong, they won't do it. wagner is free to do whatever...and so are the phillies.
Quote from: MDS on November 09, 2005, 11:58:04 AM
he knows the mets suck but they will out bid the phillies for wagner. so, he is simply forcing the phillies to get better and spend more money so he win a championship. his talk gets irratating, but maybe this will work.
urbina would come back if he was the closer. but i think teams are gonna attempt to distance themselves from a guy who was just arrested for attempted murder. yea, that doesnt sound too good.
get gordon as an 8th inning guy. wagner would accept that as his set-up man.
But that punches a hole in his argument to play for a playoff team. If the Braves get involved, then he would be correct.
the braves wont go as high as the mets or phillies. their cheap and cocky douches who think they can win with anybody. which they do and can.
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 12:03:38 PM
they just wont offer it, right or wrong, they won't do it. wagner is free to do whatever...and so are the phillies.
You don't know what GILLICK and Co will offer. You only know what WADE was offering.
they should have ugie douse wagner with gasoline & threaten him with a machete..........he'll sign then.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 09, 2005, 12:16:11 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 12:03:38 PM
they just wont offer it, right or wrong, they won't do it. wagner is free to do whatever...and so are the phillies.
You don't know what GILLICK and Co will offer. You only know what WADE was offering.
Sign Wagner!!
They weren't gonna make the playoffs in 2006 anyway. The Phillies are a doomed team and stuck with the Braves in their division. :boo :boo
Can T.O. close games out?
Mad Dog on WFAN said something to the effect of (paraphrasing): " I think Wagner turned down 3 years for 27 million from the Phillies because he knows he can get 4 years at 40 million from the Mets"
i can see it now. wags signs for $40M...and he'll blow about 4 saves next year, while saving 45....but after those 4 saves we will see this posted here "SEE I TOLD YOU HE WASNT WORTH IT".
Give him 5 years and 45 Million. Get it over with. We more than need Wagner. We will draw less than 2mil fans without him.
The Mets are always dumb enough to go one year extra.
just bring back mesa. come on.
charles manuel got 5 points (1 2nd place vote, 2 3rd places) in the NL manager of the year voting.
Quote from: MDS on November 09, 2005, 03:00:26 PM
charles manuel got 5 points (1 2nd place vote, 2 3rd places) in the NL manager of the year voting.
Glad it wasn't CHARLIE Manuel of the Phillies.
Get Manny!
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 09, 2005, 02:37:17 PM
The Mets are always dumb enough to go one year extra.
Not only that, but it seems no matter who they sign, they STILL FINISH NEAR THE BOTTOM OF THE DIVISION. Three years ago, they signed Glavine--who went on to have his worst season; then last year, they got Beltran--still no playoffs.
LOL, dating back to when they broke the bank on Mo Vaughn.
if they get manny and wagner, i find it hard to believe they won't be good.
gammons just said he thinks wagner will stick here. schedule the press conference, that old sly cat is never wrong.
(http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/images/2004/11/02/sym8LOAN.jpg) (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051107&content_id=1265384&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi)
CLICK ON PHOTO ABOVE!
:yay
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 09, 2005, 08:11:36 PM
(http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/images/2004/11/02/sym8LOAN.jpg) (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051107&content_id=1265384&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi)
CLICK ON PHOTO ABOVE!
:yay
if chris wheeler gets the award. i think i would kill the next person i saw.
I voted for Whitey, Andy Musser & Ralph Kiner.
UPDATE
The Phillies and Blue Jays were talking trade yesterday per the Inquirer.
The player being discussed?
Gold Glove RF Bobby Abreu
But sources close to the situation said "No match" and then said it was because of Bobby's contract ($31M left).
Who would Trader Pat be looking for from his old squad? No way they give up Halladay.
Maybe Pat has a raging boner for Ted Lilly like Ed Wade did?
Is $31M really a lot of dough for a guy like Abreu?
I don't know, man. That seems like chump change to me. The guy, for all his shortcomings, is an all-star caliber player. They pay middle-infielders hitting .270 $31M these days, so paying a guy who hits 30 hr's, steals 30 bases and drives in 100 runs every year that kind of dough seems like a bargain to me.
:-\
abreu has a fntc. veto anything bobby! unless its for some really good pitcher
And with Ugie doing time for trying to motivate ranch workers with machetes and gasoline Bobby might be sober enough to play both halves of the season.
A few notes from the Inky:
1. The player the Phils were talking trade about with Toronto was CF-Vernon Wells
2. The Phils have touched base with the agent for AJ Burnett
3. WFAN said last night that Tom Gordon could be on the Phils radar if they lose Wags
4. Inky said yesterday that BJ Ryan could also be on the radar if Wags bolts
5. Phils have had a few nibbles on Jim Thome but nothing serious yet. Mariners, White Sox and Twins were named.
6. Another blurb in SportsWeekly said that one GM they talked to said it sounded like they're going to keep him.
I like Vernon Wells. I HATE AJ Burnett...he's overrated. Sign Billy Wagner.
Sign Johnny Damon and let Wagner take his choker act to the Dead Sox where he belongs.
Damon = overrated
Someone's going to have the wool pulled over their eyes when they sign that dude. They'll have to give him 4 years and in year 3 & 4 of the year Damon will be like a Yugo...broke down.
Overrated?
And Wagner isn't?
Come on, Slappy.
:-D
Please fight me, Jay!
the problem with the Wells move is that they would make that trade and put Wells in center and put Howard in right :o
howard cant play outfield. why cant people understand that.
Quote from: MDS on November 11, 2005, 12:03:44 PM
howard cant play outfield. why cant people understand that.
Because baseball is WAY too complicated. I mean, what a thinking man's game!
or he's just a big dude with no range, no arm and no idea how to judge a flyball.
Quote from: MDS on November 11, 2005, 12:22:28 PM
or he's just a big dude with no range, no arm and no idea how to judge a flyball.
you must be right. in probably 2 decades of playing baseball, there is not a chance in hell ryan howard ever had to catch a fly ball. no way....it's just too uncommon!
fine. put him out there. if you think abreu sucks, just wait till you see a first basemen try and play. its like manny ramirez x1000.
I think the Phillies should just get the 8 best hitters they can find and let the fielding sort itself out.
Maybe they can trade for Manny and play him at 3rd.
Lets sign Bonds and put him at short.
Jayson Stark:
QuoteClubs that have spoken to the Phillies say they're more interested in moving Bobby Abreu than they're letting on.One reason is Abreu could be at the peak of his value these days,now that he's a gold glove-winning homerun derby champ.And "who wouldn't want one of those"laughs one nl executive.
A second reason is dealing Pat Burrell,while an option,would leave the Phillies' lineup way too left-handed.
And a third is if the Phillies ever do decide to give Ryan Howard another audition in the outfield,manager Charlie Manuel thinks Howard would have a better shot at playing right field than left-if only because he has spent his whole life playing on that side of the diamond.
The big reason why an Abreu deal is a long shot,though,is (what else)money.He's guaranteed at least $30 million over the next two years($13 million in 2006,$15 million in 2007and a $2 million buyout of his 2008 option year).
There are all sorts of reasons it will be tough for Pat Gillick to trade away Jim Thome any time soon.But here's another:
A friend of Thome says the only place he's ready to waive his no-trade clause for right now is Cleveland.And the Indians would figure to want the Phillies to pay somewhere in the range of 75 percent of the 46 million or so Thome has left on his contract
But one reason Thome might be open to other destinations,according to the same friend,is he was hurt by the boo's and disrespect heaped on him in Philadelphia this summer-just because he had the nerve to be A)injured and B)not named Ryan Howard.
who was booing thome? is he hurt that we want the younger, better version of him?
I would have boo'ed that raging steroid monkey in a heartbeat.
he never did steroids. burrell maybe. abreu probably. dykstra definatley.
QuoteHow about Philadelphia?
New Phillies GM Pat Gillick said there's no room for the 33-year-old Ramirez in his outfield, which has Bobby Abreu in right and Pat Burrell in left.
"Our corners are pretty good," Gillick said. "In high school he played center, but I don't think he can play center anymore."
Well, there goes my dream of Manny being our 3rd baseman next year.
Quote from: MDS on November 11, 2005, 03:26:31 PM
he never did steroids. burrell maybe. abreu probably. dykstra definatley.
You're farging dreaming. Take a look at him when he was a rookie. And look at him last year. Night and day. Get your head out of the sand.
RJS luvs him sum roids.
Quote from: rjs246 on November 11, 2005, 03:35:19 PM
Quote from: MDS on November 11, 2005, 03:26:31 PM
he never did steroids. burrell maybe. abreu probably. dykstra definatley.
You're farging dreaming. Take a look at him when he was a rookie. And look at him last year. Night and day. Get your head out of the sand.
jims the last i would see takin roids. but anythings possible.
Quote from: MDS on November 11, 2005, 03:00:33 PM
who was booing thome? is he hurt that we want the younger, better version of him?
Thome was getting booed like crazy. And it was the morning show and Macnow who were advocating those boos.
I never understood it. Two years before that the city was eating out of his hand and then he gets hurt and the boos start raining down.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 11, 2005, 09:43:46 AM
Overrated?
And Wagner isn't?
Come on, Slappy.
:-D
Please fight me, Jay!
:-D
Bring it!
Seriously...Johnny Damon in 3 years will be just like Bernie Williams was this year. He'll be good the next two years but if he keeps slamming into walls he'll be broke down in the 3rd and 4th years of that fat money deal he's sure to receive.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 11, 2005, 08:18:47 PM
Quote from: MDS on November 11, 2005, 03:00:33 PM
who was booing thome? is he hurt that we want the younger, better version of him?
Thome was getting booed like crazy. And it was the morning show and Macnow who were advocating those boos.
I never understood it. Two years before that the city was eating out of his hand and then he gets hurt and the boos start raining down.
i was away. i guess i missed it. well he was sucking, i can advocate booing him for not taking himself out of the lineup. but, come on. the guy shouldnt have been booed. loser philadelphia fans. well, i doubt he waives his fntc. maybe he can learn how to play third base. let jimmy cover all the ground.
in case you haven't noticed its what have you done for me lately. last year it was K after K after K. he wasn't moved anywhere else in the lineup except 5th for a little bit. it was obvious he wasn't in shape to help the team but his stubborn ass wouldn't give it up. great, try it out for a little bit maybe, i respect the fact your not milking it like some other professional sports players i know. but when your hurting the team, get off the field.
i posted earlier why they wouldn't give fat slow humongous howard a chance at catcher instead of the outfield. i think he would be less of a liability there. i think i had some non important "lol" posts or something, but no one really gave me a good reason why it would be a bad idea. big target, first base is more comparable to catcher then right field, and we could then concentrate on third base and center field if thome isn't garbage again this year.
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on November 12, 2005, 03:31:29 PM
in case you haven't noticed its what have you done for me lately. last year it was K after K after K. he wasn't moved anywhere else in the lineup except 5th for a little bit. it was obvious he wasn't in shape to help the team but his stubborn ass wouldn't give it up. great, try it out for a little bit maybe, i respect the fact your not milking it like some other professional sports players i know. but when your hurting the team, get off the field.
i posted earlier why they wouldn't give fat slow humongous howard a chance at catcher instead of the outfield. i think he would be less of a liability there. i think i had some non important "lol" posts or something, but no one really gave me a good reason why it would be a bad idea. big target, first base is more comparable to catcher then right field, and we could then concentrate on third base and center field if thome isn't garbage again this year.
Have you ever been a catcher? As big as Howard is, he'd be done by about July.
The strain of catching over a season saps almost every catcher's stats once the summer heat kicks in. It would be that much worse for someone the size of Howard (6'4", 260 lbs).
Here are some catchers, their size, and their September stats:
1. Mike Piazza (6'3", 215): .209, 5 HR, 7 RBI
2. Jason Varitek (6'2", 230): .173, 1 HR, 7 RBI
3. Javy Lopez (6'3", 230): .237, 3 HR, 12 RBI
4. A.J. Pierzynski (6'3", 240): .224, 1 HR, 8 RBI
5. Jorge Posada (6'2", 205): .294, 4 HR, 16 RBI
6. Ivan Rodriguez (5'9", 210): .200, 1 HR, 3 RBI
7. Mike Lieberthal (6'0", 200): .303, 1 HR, 10 RBI
Ryan Howard (6'4", 260): .278, 10 HR, 22 RBI
The largest was Pierzynski at 6'3" and 240. Howard is
at least an inch taller and 20 pounds heavier. These were the seven I looked up: Lieberthal because he's a Phil and the rest because they're considered the best at their position. The only two who hit above .250 for September were Posada and Lieberthal; the only one to hit 5 HR was Piazza; the only three with 10 or more RBI were Lieberthal (10), Lopez (12) and Posada (16).
Posada and Lieberthal are both on the smaller side, and Posada had a rough August (.253, 2, 9). Lieberthal, the lightest of the "top catchers," had by far the best overall stats for August and September.
Make of it what you want, I am no Lieberthal fan at this point in his career. But if you want to put Howard behind the plate, expect to lose at least half of those power stats for the last two months of the season. Catching has too much wear and tear over the season for Howard to pull 10 HR and 22 RBI in September.
and howard throws left handed...pretty easy decision there.
whatever happens, we need bell. hes awsome.
Quote from: Dillen37 on November 12, 2005, 05:46:57 PM
and howard throws left handed...pretty easy decision there.
(http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgMP0163.jpg)
Jesus Christ, somebody suggesting a left handed catcher, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard
Like I said, I don't understand why we don't just let the defense fall into place naturally. Get the best offensive lineup, and just let them figure out where to play. For example, we could always move Howard to right and move recent-Gold Glove-winner Bobby Abreu behind the dish. They could even switch off. That is totally the way to get to 100+ wins.
Don Burke, Newark Star-Ledger (http://www.nj.com/mets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1131952046320750.xml&coll=1)
QuoteThe Mets are prepared to outbid the Philadelphia Phillies -- and every other team, for that matter -- in their pursuit of free-agent closer Billy Wagner. Whether they land him or not will depend on whether Wagner, who makes his home in gentile Charlottesville, Va., would rather pitch in Philadelphia, where he has comfortably spent the last two seasons, or relocate to New York. It surely won't, the Mets believe, come down to money.
.
.
The Mets are willing to guarantee three years at $10 million each and, if necessary, throw in a fourth.
whatever. let the mets overpay for him. bring back mesa.
Coming in February. Too bad it's not realistic....there's grass stains on the jersey.... :P
(http://www.spawn.com/toys/baseball/mlb14/babreu/images/mlb14_babreu_photo_01_dp.jpg)
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/05top10s/phillies.html
Phillies top 10 prospects according to Baseball America
The Mets are willing to guarantee three years at $10 million each and, if necessary, throw in a fourth.
holy ish!
bye bye billy
nice article sun
The first priority for Gillick has to be building up the farm system. Those guys suck.
Four years/$40M for Wagner?
Ahahahahaha!
See ya. :-D
Yeah, that's just great. So who is gonna close next year?
bj ryan, tom gordon, trevor hoffman, ryan madson, robinson tejeda, ugy urbina live via sattelite from jail
Gee, those are all wonderful options. :boo
yea well if wagner runs to the money in queens, thats whats left.
i would take Ryan, it sounds like the Yanks are going to give him huge money to set up, but I wonder if he'd take less for an opportunity to be the man on the Phillies
Quote from: The Waco Kid on November 15, 2005, 04:55:15 PM
Gee, those are all wonderful options. :boo
Overpaying for talent who will quite probably break down long before the contract runs out is retarded.
Reference the Jim Thome signing for proof of that.
As for who I would acquire in free agency, that all depends. Personally, I don't think a guy who pitches an inning a night is as important as a guy who pitches at least seven innings 35 times a season. I'd rather spend take the money I'd be saving by not re-acquiring Wagner and use it on an ace. They can be had for the right price either via free agency (not likely this year) or by trade. Considering the type of talent the Phillies have on the roster, surely some team is looking to trade a top pitcher for a top hitter, right?
IMO, closers are overrated as an asset. Guys can be found to pitch one inning per night. Hell, you can usually get them off the scrap heap without spending tens of millions of dollars.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 15, 2005, 05:50:15 PM
i would take Ryan, it sounds like the Yanks are going to give him huge money to set up, but I wonder if he'd take less for an opportunity to be the man on the Phillies
Yep. He's basically just a younger Wagner imo. Hard throwing lefty. I'd rather see Wagner back but if he heads off to greener pastures then BJ Ryan is the guy I'd like the see the Phils bring in to replace him.
Wagner will tour New York next week (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051115&content_id=1268447&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym)
According to CSN, he told the Phillies and Mets that he'll move his family from Virginia to whatever city he signs with...
oh he does throw left handed.. i wont pretend i knew that.. could've sworn he threw righty.
thanks for the stats geo. i still think having him behind the plate would be less of a defensive liability then having his big ol' ass whomping around the outfield. yah he's left handed but its not like he's playing 3b or something.
he's big, he's not quick and it gets thome and howard in the line-up while not sacraficing anyone elses position.
and for whoever asked, yes i've played catcher. mainly first base.. and coincidently i am left handed. obviously not anything comparable to MLB but while more difficult.. not impossible to be a left handed catcher. its comparable to being a right handed 1B. i still find it awkward looking and quite stupid to see pitchers attempting a pick-off with a right handed first basemen.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 15, 2005, 05:50:15 PM
i would take Ryan, it sounds like the Yanks are going to give him huge money to set up, but I wonder if he'd take less for an opportunity to be the man on the Phillies
Ryan said he wants to close. However he said there is only one team that he would go to to be a set-up guy and that team is the Yankees.
And they're reportedly going to pay him $30M to be a set-up guy.
So if they do offer him that much coin my guess is that he bolts to the Big Apple to take the $30M and set-up for Mariano.
You just do not and will not see a LH catcher in the ML's. One of the reasons is because the majority of the hitters are RH and that leaves the catchers throwing hand exposed to the RH batters.
I remember one guy catching in the majors and he was LH but he only caught a game or two and that was Benny Distefano back in the late 80's with the Pirates.
If you're LH you play 1B, OF or P. That's it.
As for Billy Wags....Gillick is meeting with him today.
If I am Gillick I offer him 3 years $33-$36M to help make up for that 4th year the Mets are offering. Maybe he'd still go for the guaranteed 4th year but the Phillies MUST retain him. If they let him walk there is nothing out there.
I do not want Trevor Hoffman. I do not want Braden Looper or Bob Wickman or any of the other junk that is available in FA.
Give Wags the money.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 16, 2005, 09:05:35 AM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 15, 2005, 05:50:15 PM
i would take Ryan, it sounds like the Yanks are going to give him huge money to set up, but I wonder if he'd take less for an opportunity to be the man on the Phillies
Ryan said he wants to close. However he said there is only one team that he would go to to be a set-up guy and that team is the Yankees.
And they're reportedly going to pay him $30M to be a set-up guy.
So if they do offer him that much coin my guess is that he bolts to the Big Apple to take the $30M and set-up for Mariano.
So, you think if the Phillies offered him similar money to close he would close instead of set-up?
Would the Phillies go 3 years, $30 million for Ryan? They seem willing to do it for Wagner.
I don't know if they would go that high since Ryan doesn't have a proven track record of being a closer. Last year was his first year as a closer so maybe they'd be hesitant to pull the trigger because of that.
Either way, they've got to get one or the other. My preferance is getting Billy Wags back.
Billy said in an interview that Madson is going to the rotation too, so they need BP help in a bad way.
And to help relieve the payroll a bit if they re-sign Wags they'll just have to trade Bobby Abreu or pat Burrell.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 16, 2005, 09:10:27 AM
As for Billy Wags....Gillick is meeting with him today.
If I am Gillick I offer him 3 years $33-$36M to help make up for that 4th year the Mets are offering. Maybe he'd still go for the guaranteed 4th year but the Phillies MUST retain him. If they let him walk there is nothing out there.
That's a really stupid idea. We'd regret that contract as early as this season.
A better deal would be to offer him $27-$28m over 3 years, with a team option for $8-9m in the 4th year. If the team chooses to release him, about a $3 million buyout would be activated. You're looking at a deal that gives Wagner the $30 million guaranteed he wants and manages to squeeze in a quasi-4th year also.
$11m+/year is just too much.
Or we could watch Vicente Padilla/Robinson Tejada/random FA slopballer blow leads all year long.
Which is more stupid? Sign a great closer or pay less and go back to the days of Joe Table?
How bout the Phils just take a year off and not play. That might be better. ::)
Quote from: The Waco Kid on November 16, 2005, 10:00:25 AM
How bout the Phils just take a year off and not play. That might be better.
Finally! Someone else has gotten on board.
You're assuming that the rag-tag bunch of bitches they have starting and setting up will get them to leads in the 9th, Jay.
I don't see that happening. They have to get the starting staff straightened out first, then concern themselves with set-up men, and then worry about a closer.
Closers can be had for less than Wagner is asking and if they don't have leads going into the 8th and 9th innings because of zesty starting and middle relief pitching, what good does it do to have an $11M/year closer?
There's no way I'd give him $12M a year. Closers break down. Even Gagne...
Overpaying for guys has worked so far for this team, right?
3 years 30 mil is my limit for wags. if he wants to walk to new york for me years and money, so be it.
QuoteFrom Bob Nightengale in USA Today:
High-ranking club officials revealed that the White Sox have informed the Phillies that they want first baseman Jim Thome.
And, yes, the Phillies replied, Thome is very much available. Trading Thome would clear room for Rookie of the Year Ryan Howard.
The Phillies have several suitors for Thome, but with $43.5 remaining in his contract, they will likely have to swallow nearly half of his salary. The Phillies also realize that their offseason options could be severely limited by Thome, who has a no-trade clause.
And guess where he'd love to play next year? On the South Side of Chicago.
The White Sox believe that Thome can help bring them another World Series championship. He not only provides insurance in case free agent first baseman Paul Konerko flees for a potential five-year, $65 million contract offer from the Angels, but he becomes the finest DH in the game if Konerko returns.
White Sox GM Kenny Williams refused to confirm or deny his team's interest in Thome, but Williams vows the White Sox will be aggressive this offseason.
"Sometimes, you have to be creative, go a little out of the box to get it done," Williams says. "We'll figure this out just like we figured things out last year when Magglio (Ordonez) was gone, Carlos (Lee) was gone. The whole of the team is more important than any individual piece. We want Paul back, and I'm optimistic something will work out.
"But we have to make plans to protect ourselves. And if we can get Paul back, too, it'll make us that much stronger."
Steroids are yummy.
Quote from: rjs246 on November 16, 2005, 03:32:25 PM
Steroids are yummy.
stop being mean, you're making me sad.
I would love to see Thome in a White Sox uniform next year.
id give them thome for a sack of dog crap if they take his contract off our hands.
Get Brandon McCarthy for him.
McCarthy + Damaso Marte
Billy Wags says that the meeting went well and that the Phils have his ear. DOn't know how much of that is truth and how much of that is bullshteintin to play both sides of the fence but I hope they get him signed soon.
Sign Wags
Trade Thome
Trade Abreu or Burrell
i dont think their gonna end up trading abreu. burrell wont be because he is their only rh bat. abreu has a job, likes where he is, and would have to go to the perfect situation (probably somewhere more south, and with a chance to win) to waive his fntc. like i dont know why gillick was talking to toronto, abreu isnt accepting a trade out there. florida, atlanta, dc, new yorks, etc. thats probably his limit. since the yankees dont need him and since the phillies wont trade him in division, hes not going anywhere (fine by me).
thome will probably wind up in chicago at this point. they need a new dh and some insurence if konerko walks, and with their series win they can obviously increase payroll a bit, so they would be willing to pick up more of thomes salary than some other teams. the offense on this team isnt the problem, we need starting pitching. heck, if we significantley improve the starting pitching id led wagner walk. but nobody that special out there, and nobody that special in here now (were gonna wind up a pack of 2's and 3's), having a lights out boy like wags helps.
gillick said lofton wont come back and that victorino is the starter right now. omg omg omg omg.
Quote from: MDS on November 17, 2005, 06:12:01 PM
gillick said lofton wont come back and that victorino is the starter right now. omg omg omg omg.
Time to print these, BAY-BEE!
(http://www.sportsartifacts.com/t1980wsgm3.JPG)
Quote from: MDS on November 17, 2005, 06:12:01 PM
gillick said lofton wont come back and that victorino is the starter right now. omg omg omg omg.
Wasn't Lofton one of the only guys who played consistently well last year?
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 18, 2005, 08:02:14 AM
Quote from: MDS on November 17, 2005, 06:12:01 PM
gillick said lofton wont come back and that victorino is the starter right now. omg omg omg omg.
Wasn't Lofton one of the only guys who played consistently well last year?
Yep. I thought he played very well last year. I wonder if it's the team's decision not to bring Lofton back or if it's a lack of desire on Lofton's part.
The latter could be it. The guy has always been a headcase, but a farging talented one. He and JRoll worked really well together.
I'm not shocked that Lofton isn't coming back.
Not only do they have Victorino but they could also acquire a CF via trade or they could dip into the minors and see what Roberson can do or Bourn as well.
Oh, goodie. Wagner is "interested" now. ::)
Excuse me while I vomit until it leaks out of my ass and ears.
:puke
lofton was also due to make 3 mil this season. thats probably the major reason. he didnt have any major blowups cause charlie handles him well. plus, his stats looked better than normal due to not playing against lhp and having more rest. if any player did that, their stats would be better.
he actually hit higher vs lefties than vs rhp
granted there was a major discrepencie in the number of ABs.
Victorino is tearing up the Olympic qualifying right now... :yay
you'll have to excuse me while i mess my pants 3 ways in sheer excitement
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 18, 2005, 10:58:32 AM
Oh, goodie. Wagner is "interested" now. ::)
Excuse me while I vomit until it leaks out of my ass and ears.
:puke
Save that vomit, bro. You'll need it for when a bum like Braden Looper is attempting to close games for the Phils this year if they don't re-sign Wags.
Either that or you'll need it for when you watch your Orlando Magic play. :o :P
i pulled this of PhilliesPhans, from someone who pulled it off Rotoworld:
QuoteFree agent B.J. Ryan recently told a friend he does not want to deal with the "stress" of pitching for the Yankees. He's expected to take a closer's job elsewhere.
GET RYAN!
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 19, 2005, 04:34:15 AM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 18, 2005, 10:58:32 AM
Oh, goodie. Wagner is "interested" now. ::)
Excuse me while I vomit until it leaks out of my ass and ears.
:puke
Save that vomit, bro. You'll need it for when a bum like Braden Looper is attempting to close games for the Phils this year if they don't re-sign Wags.
Either that or you'll need it for when you watch your Orlando Magic play. :o :P
Or maybe when I watch the Flyers blow two goal leads in less than a minute?
:-D
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 19, 2005, 08:25:08 AM
i pulled this of PhilliesPhans, from someone who pulled it off Rotoworld:
QuoteFree agent B.J. Ryan recently told a friend he does not want to deal with the "stress" of pitching for the Yankees. He's expected to take a closer's job elsewhere.
GET RYAN!
[PG]Those aren't real sources. That's preposterous.[/PG] :P
sounds good, i guess. hes gotta be option #2.
There's a Salisbury interview with Thome in tomorrow's Inquirer. Here's the main quotes/points from it:
-- "I know how baseball works. I understand that, hey, it might be time for me to move on. That doesn't mean I want to. But that's just the reality of it."
-- "Ryan's a good player and I'm a good player. I'm sure it's difficult on the organization. But there needs to be resolution. It's not fair to Ryan Howard's party. It's not fair to our party."
-- "I'm a man. You're not going to hurt my feelings one way or another. If you think I'm older and my best years are behind me, that's OK. If you want to play Ryan Howard, that's OK. You don't win the rookie of the year without being a good player. I understand the business side of baseball."
-- "At the time I signed with the Phillies, I never even thought about the no-trade clause. I signed a six-year deal, and I honestly thought it would take me to retirement. But I am thinking about it now because my name is out there and they haven't said 'Jim Thome is our first baseman'."
-- Thome says he will only accept a trade to a midwest American League team with a shot at winning a title.
-- "I can't pinpoint a team yet, but it would have to be close to home. Cleveland would be a place. Would it be the only place? No. Chicago would be there."
-- If the Phils eat over half of Thome's salary, Cleveland could be interested again. Shapiro declined comment.
-- Thome won't make excuses for his performance, but he admitted that he was hurt from day one, saying he didn't give his back enough time to heal coming out of spring training. He doesn't know how he hurt the elbow, but he couldn't stand the pain of throwing anymore.
-- He's heard people talk about how he can't turn on a fastball anymore and how he's experiencing steroid withdrawal. "I never doubted my ability. It was just frustrating that I didn't have my true ability because I was hurt."
-- On the steroid accusations: "Laughable. I've heard all that stuff and people have asked me about it. Here's what I tell them --- go look at my family photo. Everyone in my family is big. If I ever took a steroid, I'd blow up so much I wouldn't be able to swing a bat. I've never even taken a supplement in my life."
-- Despite the uncertain future, he has no regrets coming here. "Philly has been great to me. If I have to leave, hopefully I'd be lucky enough to go to another city that would treat me as well as Philly has."
:(
hes got some roid rage, no?
I loved the Thome signing at the time.
However, in retrospect, the Thome signing was probably a mistake- not because of Thome, but because they already had a potential stud first baseman ready to come up, even at the time of the signing. Howard had potentially two years wasted being Thome's understudy.
Also, the Phils could have used that money to try to get the stud ace that they are presently lacking.
Not sure who they could get from the White Sox or Indians. Love to see that young stud White Sox pitcher in the Phils' rotation, but that's a pipe dream.
At least Ed Wade isn't making the decisions anymore. :boom
Thome's much too humble for this city. He needs to criticze the fans and/or management to fit in.
Goddamned Roid monkey.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on November 19, 2005, 04:01:56 PM
Thome's much too humble for this city. He needs to criticze the fans and/or management to fit in.
True. True. :-D
I like Thome. I wish there was a way to keep 'em both. Too bad Howard is a certified butcher in the OF.
Newsday is saying that Wagner's going to hold a late morning news comference at Shea Stadium today.
I don't think it's to announce a signing though, he is probably just going to answer questions about his visit.
Linky (http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets224523866nov22,0,3946132.story?coll=ny-mets-bigpix)
let them overpay for him.
somebody on PhilliesPhans posted this...
QuoteAccording to the White Sox official site board,espn radio 1000 in Chicago is reporting that the Phillies and White Sox are in serious discussions about a deal that sends Thome to the White Sox,for Rowand and either Contreras or Brandon Mcarthy.
hmmm. well, um, conteras would be prett-ay nice. rowand is good player. he can hit 2nd or 6th (probably better off 6th). mccarthy is a young guy, i think we'd be much better off with a proven guy in conteras.
the big part of this deal is obviously how much of thomes salary will be picked up. considering conteras makes upwards of 8 mil a year, id say they are taking on a large sum of it if he is part of the deal.
Good riddance to Wagner and his zesty attitude.
They're better off using the money elsewhere.
They need a starter, a third baseman, a catcher, a centerfielder, middle relief and they need to resolve the Thome/Howard situation, yet their primary focus has been on re-signing a guy who has publically torched the team and its fans ever since he got here?
Now he's using the Phillies for leverage with the Mets to get a better contract.
Wonderful.
It's wholly fricken ridiculous that we're even discussing that bum at this point.
Move on, Pat. MOVE ON.
Get BJ Ryan!
Romey, you gotta help me out here. Why the hate for Billy Wagner? He's just playing the wine & dine FA game. Everyone uses other teams for leverage. Remember the Eagles about to sign Fred Thomas and he literally snuck out a back door to go back to NO for more money?
As for the Thome news....GET IT DONE.
Aaron Rowand is a very nice player and I'd take McCarthy or Contreras.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Rowan just be another .270-.290 hitter who strikes out way too much and doesn't ever walk? Prototypical Phillie!
Rowand is a younger guy (28) who is a career .283 hitter. He did strike out 116 times last year but he has some speed and he is a very good CF.
Pat Gillick puts a lot on stock into defense and Rowand can cover some big time ground out there. Plus he is the ideal 2 or 6 hole hitter, something the Phils need.
Jayson Stark was just on ESPNews and had a Wagner update...
Said that he knows Billy Wags and he is not a NY kind of guy. He said that the Mets offered or will offer him a 3-year $30M deal today and the Phillies will match that. He did say that the Mets will not hesitate to go for the 4th year because he is their #1 target and that the union will pressure him to take the big time contract but he just doesn't know if Wags will go to NY.
The more I think about giving Wags a 4th year, the more I feel ill.
If the Mets go to 4 years the Phils will not match that I'm pretty sure. I wouldn't give him 4 either. I give him 3 at $30 thats it.
If he goes to NY for 4-40 then we go after Ryan.
Jay,
I can't stand Wagner because he's yet another in a long line of players who have a big mouth but who seem to fail when the pressure is the greatest.
My biggest problem with signing Wagner has nothing to do with him in all honesty. I simply think the Phillies have other area of concern where the 10 million could go to improve the club. If the Phillies have a legitimate third baseman and centerfielder playing instead of a hack like Bell and a nobody like Jason Michaels, their chances to compete in 2006 are far greater than they would be if they chose to spend it on a guy like Wagner who is one pitch away from ripping his arm to shreds.
The guy will be 34 years old in July. Do you really want to invest upwards of forty million dollars over four seasons on a 34 year-old closer with a bad attitude and a history of arm trouble?
Not this fool, I assure you.
(Edited - I said 11 million, meant 10- sorry.) :deion
BTW: I would go after Ryan regardless. No way it takes 40M to sign him but even if he did, I'd rather go with a guy who will be 30 next year instead of 34.
Ok, I understand where you're coming from. But truthfully, what he says doesn't bother me. He's only been here 2 years and he's obviously not from Philly. I don't think he quite knew what the deal was here and how frustrated the fan base was. I think this year opened his eyes a little. And I'm sure he knows that in NY the pressure is 100 times than what it is in Philly.
And they can address the other areas of need without worrying about the money given to Wags.
Once they trade Thome and if they trade Abreu that frees up about $26M this year (roughly $13M for each guy in 2005).
So if they sign Wags for $10M this year they'll have money to play with. And they'll also be getting players in return when they trade Thome and Abreu.
I wouldn't give him $40M over 4. But I'd give him 3 years 30M.
If they trade Thome, they'll still have to pay the lionshare of his contract, right? Although the payroll budget will go down significantly in terms of base numbers, they'll still be paying Thome's contract out of pocket, so effectively, they won't be saving anything on him.
Trading Abreu is wishful thinking, IMO. Yes, he's a good player and yes he's relatively affordable considering the idiotic contracts they're paying professionals these days but scouts aren't stupid. They're going to see the same kind of lazy ass effort on the field from Abreu as we do. They'll see the strikeouts and the crappy production from him in innings 7-9, so getting anyone of merit for him is a longshot.
Patricia, on the other hand, might bring equal talent. He certainly would bring more than Abreu, but even so, the salaries would have to wash, right? Well, whatever he's making this year wouldn't equate to a frontline starter in this market. A combination of him and a Gavin Floyd might bring you an ace but considering how tight-fisted the Phillies are about giving up mediocre former first round draft choices, I wouldn't bet on them doing that deal either.
Look, I'm fine with Abreu and Patsy sticking here. I'm fine with Rollins, Howard, and Chase too but that leaves three everyday players plus an ace to come up with. IMO, getting guys who play everyday instead of an inning every second or third day is way more important. Getting a front-line, no-doubt-about-it ace who can carry the team and provide the other starters with a model with which to follow is equally as important.
The team simply has too many question marks @ more important positions than closer to piss all that money away on one guy, especially someone who isn't sold on being here in the first place. If he were, this conversation would be moot.
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051122/capt.nyff10411221917.mets_wagner_nyff104.jpg) (http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051122/capt.nyff10111221855.mets_wagner_nyff101.jpg)
hmm
Well, the rumor was if the Phillies take Jose Contreras then the White Sox will pick up 2/3rd's of Thome's contract.
And I still say that regardless of who you sign if you do not have a closer then you might as well just pack it in. You can have studs in the field, studs at the plate and a stud starting staff but if your back end of the BP is garbage you're done. You need a good closer.
QuoteTrading Abreu is wishful thinking, IMO. Yes, he's a good player and yes he's relatively affordable considering the idiotic contracts they're paying professionals these days but scouts aren't stupid. They're going to see the same kind of lazy ass effort on the field from Abreu as we do. They'll see the strikeouts and the crappy production from him in innings 7-9, so getting anyone of merit for him is a longshot.
See this is where the Abreu haters are wrong. The scouts see a good ballplayer and a guy who is a very good hitter. When you read national articles or listen to national radio and analysts they all sing the praises of Bobby because he is a good ballplayer. But in Philadelphia he is regarded as a lazy bum who sucks. The guy is widely regarded as a top notch player, Romey. Regardless of what is said about him in this town, he is a guy that many teams will take. That's why the Phils are discussing trading him...because he is a commodity on the open market.
Patty Cakes, while I wouldn't be opposed to trading him or Abreu, I think has a better shot of sticking around because he is a RH hitter. Their line-up is way to olH Heavy as it is now so they wouldn't trade him unless they got another RH power bat in return.
And how do you know he isn't sold on being here. I've heard him say numerous times that he loves his teammates and wants to stay in Philadelphia. You cannot fault the guy for playing the free agency game. The union puts pressure on the players to do that.
As for getting that top-of-the-line-ace.....there ain't too many of those guys out there, Romey. And there is not any of them available in free agency. A.J Burnett? Please. He's a fraud. He is the only guy out there in free agency. SO if you want an ace, it'll have to be acquired via blockbuster trade.
Bottom line...Wagner needs to be here.
And Comcast just said that the Mets will go after BJ Ryan if Wags comes back to PHL. And they said that even if the Mets sign Wags they will go after Ryan to be Wags' set-up guy.
Ryan was visiting Cleveland today, by the way.
One more point on Wags...you have to look at more than just this year salary-wise. This year they are handcuffed because Bell and Lieberthal are still on the payroll. Next year those losers are gone. So the Phillies can afford him and still address other spots.
I know what I see every time I watch Abreu, Jay.
You seem to forget that I watch almost every single Phillies game on the computer. I've seen him play hundreds of times in my life, and my opinion is, he's a good player, period.
We differ there. So be it.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 22, 2005, 06:39:06 PM
See this is where the Abreu haters are wrong. The scouts see a good ballplayer and a guy who is a very good hitter. When you read national articles or listen to national radio and analysts they all sing the praises of Bobby because he is a good ballplayer. But in Philadelphia he is regarded as a lazy bum who sucks. The guy is widely regarded as a top notch player, Romey. Regardless of what is said about him in this town, he is a guy that many teams will take. That's why the Phils are discussing trading him...because he is a commodity on the open market.
He is a good all around ballplayer but
at times it looks like he lacks hustle. I've never had a problem with Abreu aside from his lack of clutch hits. It's hard to imagine a team not wanting a 290.-300.BA, 25-30 HR, 100 RBI, 900.OPS guy with speed and a great arm. His 2005 salary ($13,100,000) is steep but his stats are pretty consistent so teams know they're not getting a bum.
Quote from: MDS on November 22, 2005, 12:35:33 PM
hmmm. well, um, conteras would be prett-ay nice. rowand is good player. he can hit 2nd or 6th (probably better off 6th). mccarthy is a young guy, i think we'd be much better off with a proven guy in conteras.
the big part of this deal is obviously how much of thomes salary will be picked up. considering conteras makes upwards of 8 mil a year, id say they are taking on a large sum of it if he is part of the deal.
I actually would go the other way. McCarthy is a young stud with a world of potential. Contreras finally had one decent year (15-7, 3.61), and I'd be afriad that he'd flop in Philly ala Millwood, and ala Contreras in New York.
I've been known to be wrong before, though! :D
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 22, 2005, 07:22:20 PM
I know what I see every time I watch Abreu, Jay.
You seem to forget that I watch almost every single Phillies game on the computer. I've seen him play hundreds of times in my life, and my opinion is, he's a good player, period.
We differ there. So be it.
But I think he is a good player too. So we agree on that then. :paranoid
I think he is ripped on too much.
I think he's a good player, not a great player, and certainly not the type of player who would bring a-list talent in a trade. Especially with a $13M salary for 2005.
BTW: I got another letter from Pat Gillick again. This guy is starting to creep me out over here...
:paranoid
QuoteDear Asshat:
I wanted to take a moment to thank you for the very positive response I've gotten since joining the Phillies last month. :-D Through all my years in baseball, I always heard about how passionate the Philadelphia sports fans are and it's been fun to see it up close and personal. Sometime soon, I will be part of a chat session on phillies.com to answer some of your questions.
I would also like to bring you up to speed on what I've been doing the past few weeks. Two weeks ago, Ruben Amaro Jr., Mike Arbuckle and I attended the General Managers meetings in Palm Springs, California. I feel the meetings we had with agents and other teams were very positive and productive. While I can't talk about specific conversations we had, I can tell you that we are exploring various ways to improve the team. Despite having the fourth-best record in the National League last season, it wasn't good enough to get us to the playoffs.
As we've stated before, retaining Billy Wagner as our closer remains our top priority this winter. Last week, Ruben, Charlie Manuel and I visited Billy and his wife, Sarah, at their home in Virginia. We had a very candid back-and-forth discussion. In my opinion, I think all of us left the meeting feeling good.
Another topic I wanted to cover was my staff. While I have retained Ruben and Mike as Assistant General Managers and Charlie as the field manager, I have added Don Welke, a baseball scout for the last 40 years. He joins the organization as one of my Special Assistants. Don has worked with me before in both Toronto and Baltimore and I couldn't be happier that he's now part of our team. He, Gordon Lakey, our Major League Scout, and John Vukovich, another Special Assistant, will be my eyes and ears around Major League Baseball.
With Ruben, Mike, Charlie, Don, Vuke, Gordon and Dallas Green, I feel we have an excellent, seasoned baseball staff. They are a group of experienced baseball men who will not be shy about giving their opinions on whatever topic I throw at them.
Two weeks from today, most of us will be in Dallas, Texas, for the Winter Meetings. Again, we will be there for the sole purpose of improving our team any way we can.
Finally, I'd like to wish you and your family a very happy and safe Thanksgiving.
Happy Holidays!
Pat
Pat Gillick
General Manager
The Phillies
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 22, 2005, 06:39:06 PM
And Comcast just said that the Mets will go after BJ Ryan if Wags comes back to PHL. And they said that even if the Mets sign Wags they will go after Ryan to be Wags' set-up guy.
Ryan was visiting Cleveland today, by the way.
last night on the radio, Jody Mac said that Ryan doesn't want to set-up anywhere because he's already been the man and wants to stay the man.
if they can get Wagner for 2 years with an option for a 3rd, I would take Wagner, if they have to guarentee him 3 years up front I would prefer to go after the younger Ryan.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 23, 2005, 08:33:27 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 22, 2005, 06:39:06 PM
And Comcast just said that the Mets will go after BJ Ryan if Wags comes back to PHL. And they said that even if the Mets sign Wags they will go after Ryan to be Wags' set-up guy.
Ryan was visiting Cleveland today, by the way.
last night on the radio, Jody Mac said that Ryan doesn't want to set-up anywhere because he's already been the man and wants to stay the man.
if they can get Wagner for 2 years with an option for a 3rd, I would take Wagner, if they have to guarentee him 3 years up front I would prefer to go after the younger Ryan.
Yeah, I had heard that too about Ryan. The only difference from what I heard was that the only place he was willing to s/u was in The Bronx for Rivera. But then Neil Hartman said on CSN last night the Mets will go after him too. But I'll trust Jody Mac over Hartman anyday.
Supposedly the Phils are willing to give Wags that 3rd year and FNTC and $30M to match the Mets offer.
i think they are setting themselves up for trouble if they give him 3 years guarenteed with a FNTC. he's a little guy that throws hard, he's had injury problems before, i just think the risk is too high. they aren't built to win next year IMO. i would give him that contract if I felt they could win the WS next year or the year after, but I think they have some major work to do to be a WS contender.
I'm willing to give it to him.
If it was Ed Wade doing the building I would totally agree that they cannot contend. But I'm going to give ol' Pat a shot to see what he can do. Maybe he can work some magic.
The NL is pretty weak so they've got a shot.
I was reading that Wags essentially told Minaya that the Mets would have to give him 4 years at 40+ and a FNTC to get him to bolt Philly.
Sounds as if he wants to be here and he's shooting for the pie in the sky in NY to see if they'd jump.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 23, 2005, 09:23:09 AM
I was reading that Wags essentially told Minaya that the Mets would have to give him 4 years at 40+ and a FNTC to get him to bolt Philly.
Sounds as if he wants to be here and he's shooting for the pie in the sky in NY to see if they'd jump.
they said they wouldn't lose him because of financial reasons, so they'll probably give that to him. if he gets that, God bless him.
Yeah, really. I'm down with giving him the 3-30. But no shot at 4-40.
But I think if the Mets find out that Ryan comes a little cheaper or isn't trying to rob them they might scoop him up instead.
We'll see though....
Ryan isn't going to be that much cheaper. He'll probably get at least $7M/yr, and he's not much younger than Wagner...
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 23, 2005, 10:26:36 AM
Ryan isn't going to be that much cheaper. He'll probably get at least $7M/yr, and he's not much younger than Wagner...
4 years, $30 million is cheaper than 3 years, $30 million. Did you get that memo?
hey wagner is just using the mets as bait, he really wants to come back here. and its a good thing too, if the mets got home they would be real good. but it looks like their still not gonna have any pitching. haha.
Thome to the Sox is apparantley offical, but not sure who its for and the deal with his contract.
QuoteBreaking News
Sources: Thome Deal In Works
Jim Thome's big bat might be launching home runs on the South Side next season. The White Sox and the Phillies are on the verge of a deal that would send Aaron Rowand to Philly for Thome, Buster Olney is reporting.
ESPN.com
Thome + $24M (out of $43M left) for Rowand. It's been speculated that Rowand may then be traded to the Yankees (Pavano?) or Red Sox (??) for pitching....
You can DO IT
i like it. rowand is okay hitter with good glove. if he brings us pitching, we'll see.
The White Sox are getting a steal if Thome ever plays like he's healthy again.
thats why its a gamble. if thome still sucks ass, gillick is king. if thome kicks ass, then we can demand wade and his lack of moves to return.
Well, I'll go on the record now as being in support of this deal. Very important to let Howard know without doubt that he is the man at 1B and will be for quite some time.
Update: the Phils are also getting 2 decent lefty pitching prospects in the deal....Gio Gonzalez (2004 #1 pick) and Daniel Haigwood...
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 23, 2005, 04:26:25 PM
Update: the Phils are also getting 2 decent lefty pitching prospects in the deal....Gio Gonzalez (2004 #1 pick) and Daniel Haigwood...
Cool. Didn't expect them to be able to get this much.
It's probably because they're going to still pay a lot of Thome's salary.
good. now we have 2 more prospects to mis-handle and eventually trade away for mediocre relief pitching.
You gotta give the Gillick regime a chance to do some mishandling before you assume that.
Now wtf am I gonna do with my Thome jersey?
First T.O. and now Thome.
Godammn motherfarging icehole bastiches!
:boom
:D
There doesn't seem to be a point in buying jerseys anymore.......
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 23, 2005, 04:45:27 PM
There doesn't seem to be a point in buying jerseys anymore.......
You, specifically, should have a jersey with "BIG ED" and the # 76 on it for each Philly team, and be done with it.
Others, like me, may have to get more creative.
I've always thought custom jerseys were lame...
anybody know whats left on howards deal?
might want to extend him now that he's the man. i was kind of looking forward to seeing what a howard and a thome in the lineup would do. wishful thinking obviously.
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 23, 2005, 05:12:27 PM
I've always thought custom jerseys were lame...
I'm starting to think they're less lame than actual player jerseys. Duce, Freddie, Corey, and Terrell agree with me. :boom
vincent.. taylor....... blaine bishop :paranoid
Oh, I was just talking about the ones I still actually own.
We are planning a T.O. bonfire next week, though.
sweet.. ill stop playing tug of war with my dog with it.
I like the trade.
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on November 23, 2005, 05:25:01 PM
sweet.. ill stop playing tug of war with my dog with it.
Unless you want to visit North Carolina next week, go ahead and do what you want with your own jersey.
Update: the Phils are sending $22M, not $24M. Woohoo...more cash for a 40-year old reliever....oh wait...Wade isn't here... ;D
so, is thome walking into the chi-sox offices right now with a burlap sack embedded with a dollar sign?
I Love Chase Utley!
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 23, 2005, 05:29:07 PM
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on November 23, 2005, 05:25:01 PM
sweet.. ill stop playing tug of war with my dog with it.
Unless you want to visit North Carolina next week, go ahead and do what you want with your own jersey.
no matter. there's not a whole lot of pieces left to contribute.
My prediction is Thome's going to hit 30-40 HRs this year and be back to his old self. But no less, this was a move that had to be made.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on November 23, 2005, 06:04:48 PM
My prediction is Thome's going to hit 30-40 HRs this year and be back to his old self. But no less, this was a move that had to be made.
Exactly...because Howard is going to hit 50 HR's and smoke 150 RBI's!!
Quote from: The Waco Kid on November 23, 2005, 06:15:08 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on November 23, 2005, 06:04:48 PM
My prediction is Thome's going to hit 30-40 HRs this year and be back to his old self. But no less, this was a move that had to be made.
Exactly...because Howard is going to hit 50 HR's and smoke 150 RBI's!!
And 200 strike outs :P
Quote from: SD_Eagle on November 23, 2005, 06:37:31 PM
Quote from: The Waco Kid on November 23, 2005, 06:15:08 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on November 23, 2005, 06:04:48 PM
My prediction is Thome's going to hit 30-40 HRs this year and be back to his old self. But no less, this was a move that had to be made.
Exactly...because Howard is going to hit 50 HR's and smoke 150 RBI's!!
And 200 strike outs :P
Reducing strike outs can be learned ;D
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on November 23, 2005, 05:14:14 PManybody know whats left on howards deal?
might want to extend him now that he's the man.
2 more minimum contracts, then 3 arbitration years, so he'll be here for at least 5 more years unless he's traded....
Don't you think the Phillies would lock him up to a longer contract if he has another year like last year?
Do any of you space cases actually think that Howard will hit 50 HRs next year? I mean, seriously. give me a break.
Quote from: rjs246 on November 23, 2005, 07:25:57 PM
Do any of you space cases actually think that Howard will hit 50 HRs next year? I mean, seriously. give me a break.
Of course not.
He's going to hit
60! :deion
Quote from: rjs246 on November 23, 2005, 07:25:57 PM
Do any of you space cases actually think that Howard will hit 50 HRs next year? I mean, seriously. give me a break.
I don't think 40-45 is outside the realm of possibility.
Quote from: NGM on November 23, 2005, 07:29:25 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on November 23, 2005, 07:25:57 PM
Do any of you space cases actually think that Howard will hit 50 HRs next year? I mean, seriously. give me a break.
I don't think 40-45 is outside the realm of possibility.
Ditto. Far more upside than Thome (and I am a HUGE Thome fan). This kid has the potential to do this for years to come, Thome doesn't. I wish him the best, but we're done with his contract and now have some room to maneuver.
Barring injury, Howard will be the Phillies first baseman for the next 10 years or more.
Man... Howard, Rollins, Utley for 10 or more years together.
Just think of that.
:yay
I already like Gillick.
Wade would have never have had the balls to make the trade. We all know this.
If Gillick keeps this shtein up, I'm going to have to write him a letter of apology.
:-*
Quote from: NGM on November 23, 2005, 07:09:59 PM
Don't you think the Phillies would lock him up to a longer contract if he has another year like last year?
It's not like the NFL. They don't need to give him a long-term deal for at least 2 more years. They might give him one in 3 years to cover his arbitration years, but they don't need to do anything now. That's why it's not a big deal to pay as much as they did in the Thome deal. That's money that would have been used on a $6M-$8M first baseman each year anyway, but instead, they only have to pay Howard about $500K....
1. I'm sad to see Thome go because he was a classy dude. I'll never forget when we signed him and the whole hoopla associated with it.
2. I hope he goes to Chicago and tears it up so the morons who blasted him in this city and turned their backs on him feel like a buncha iceholes. Thome is another star who was turned on in Philadelphia. Add him to the list.
3. I like the trade. I do not want Rowand traded for some loser like Carl Pavano.
4. I like that they're only paying half of his salary.
5. The fact that they got 2 LHP prospects and a great defensive CF is nice.
6. Ryan Howard's presence is what keeps me from hating this trade. He's going to be a stud.
I'll miss Thome. He's a good player, and a good guy.
At least we'll have someone in CF that can go get the ball. Bobby won't have to risk breaking a nail going "all out" for some of those balls anymore. :paranoid
Love the fact that we got two young pitchers in the deal. Can't have enough of those. :yay
Why would anyone hate Jim Thome in Philly?
Seriously.
:paranoid
Gio Gonzalez's stats (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Giovany%20Gonzalez&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=461829)
Daniel Haighwood's stats (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Daniel%20Haigwood&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=452624)
Rowand + Gonzalez + Haighwood + Howard full time = Phreak likey even more.
Now they can use Abreu & Hamels/Floyd/one of these dudes to get a veteran SP.
QuoteJim Thome is going home.
The Phillies confirmed today that they have agreed on a deal with the White Sox that would send the slugging first baseman back to his home state of Illinois. The Phillies would receive centerfielder Aaron Rowand and two prospects from the White Sox, who have agreed to pay slightly more than half the remaining $46 million on Thome's contract.
Thome has agreed to waive his no-trade clause to join the White Sox, but the deal is contingent on Thome passing a physical Friday in Chicago.
Phillies general manager Pat Gillick declined comment.
Thome grew up in Peoria, Ill. His family still lives in the area, and he spends time there in the off-season at his hunting lodge outside town. Thome, who has 430 career home runs, spent 12 seasons with the Cleveland Indians before signing a six-year, $85 million contract with the Phillies in Dec. 2002.
The signing was an exciting moment for the Phillies. Some called it the return of baseball to a city that hadn't enjoyed a playoff berth since 1993, and hadn't won a championship since 1980.
Thome hit 89 homers in his first two seasons with the Phillies, and fans loved him. But he suffered through an injury-plagued season this year, and hit just .207 with seven homers and 30 RBIs in 59 games. He had back problems early, then needed season-ending surgery on his right elbow in July. First baseman Ryan Howard stepped in and hit 22 homers in 88 games and eventually won the National League rookie of the year.
It created an interesting dilemma for Gillick, who said at his introductory news conference earlier this month that he doubted the two could co-exist next season.
So with Thome moving to Chicago, the first base job has officially been handed over to Howard.
Rowand, who made $2 million this year, hit .270 with 13 homers and 69 RBIs for the world champion White Sox.
He will receive $3.25 million next year, with a club option in 2007 for $5 million. Rowand has a player option of $3.25 million for 2007.
It's uncertain who the two prospects are, but the fact the Sox have agreed to take on slightly more than half of Thome's remaining contract is huge. The Phillies had almost $78 million committed to just 11 players next season, and they're still trying to re-sign closer Billy Wagner.
It's not believed they could have afforded Wagner without moving some significant salary, so this might allow the Phillies to sweeten the pot for him. It also could allow the Phillies to improve elsewhere on the pitching staff, which Wagner has said he would like to see in order to return.
The New York Mets already have offered Wagner a three-year, $30 million-plus contract with an option for a fourth season. The Phillies will have to come relatively close to that to have a shot. They were expected to make another offer yesterday.
Thome will make $15 million next season, which includes the final $2.5 million of a $10 million signing bonus. He will make $14 million in both 2007 and 2008, and has an option that automatically vests based on plate appearances in 2009. If that option kicks in, Thome will be paid $13 million in 2009.
If not, he is paid $3 million.
The Phillies also had been talking with the Cleveland Indians about Thome. One potential deal had the Indians shipping outfielder Coco Crisp (.300, 16 homers, 69 RBIs) and relief pitcher David Riske (3-4, 3.10 ERA in 58 appearances) to the Phillies for Thome and outfielder Jason Michaels.
Those who know say Gillick has been working the phones hard since he started his job. He has several irons in the fire, but none have been as big as Thome and Wagner. Still, keep an eye on free agent third baseman Abraham Nunez, who filled in nicely for St. Louis Cardinals third baseman Scott Rolen this season. Nunez, a switch-hitter, hit .285 with five homers and 44 RBIs last season. If the Phillies bring him to their bench, he could take some at-bats from David Bell.
Bell, who hits righthanded, hit .248 with 10 homers and 61 RBIs. He hit just .199 against righthanders, but .400 against lefthanders.
The Phillies also could be close to signing some bullpen help. Wagner has said he wants to see who will be his set-up man with Ugueth Urbina facing serious legal problems in Venezuela and righthander Ryan Madson possibly moving into the rotation.
Those things will sort themselves out.
Right now, Howard is in. Thome is out.
Three years ago, that would have been impossible to imagine. The Phillies expected Thome to help deliver the franchise a trip to the playoffs. He did his part his first two seasons, but injuries helped bring his Phillies career to an unceremonious end. There are some with the Phillies who think Thome, who has been said to be in incredible shape, will be a force next season - a man with something to prove, and still the hitter who hit 89 homers in 2003 and 2004.
He just might be.
It just won't be for the Phillies.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 23, 2005, 08:28:40 PM
Why would anyone hate Jim Thome in Philly?
Seriously.
:paranoid
Because our fans are iceholes
QuoteBy Mike Downey
Chicago Tribune
CHICAGO — I don't know about you, but I admire guts.
And guts is what it took for the White Sox to part ways Wednesday with one of their most valuable players, Aaron Rowand, 28 days after the World Series.
Just as it took guts for the Florida Marlins to trade Derrek Lee to the Cubs on Nov. 25, 2003, exactly a month after that year's World Series.
And just as it took guts for the Boston Red Sox to let Pedro Martinez walk away, less than two months after they finally won a World Series.
Sometimes these things don't work out. And, OK, some teams do have no place to go but down. But executives need to execute. And I know Sox general manager Ken Williams goes by the book as well as by his gut, following a few general rules of thumb:
Don't be afraid to take risks.
Don't be swayed by sentiment.
And don't go by what a guy did last year.
Williams told me during the season: "I wouldn't have been able to get a Scott Podsednik or a Juan Uribe if they were coming off their best seasons. Their teams would have been a lot more desperate to keep them."
So when a Jim Thome suddenly becomes expendable in Philadelphia, sidetracked by a bad back and elbow after 430 home runs, you use your best judgment, calculate the risks, weigh the Phillies' asking price and then—in a kind of flesh-and-blood eBay—you place your bid.
Second-guess Williams if you must, but guess what? You don't get something for nothing.
And this city has a World Series winner today because to get Podsednik, the GM was willing to sacrifice Carlos Lee, a proven slugger. And to get Uribe, he parted with Aaron Miles, a top prospect.
And to get Freddy Garcia, he parted with Miguel Olivo and Jeremy Reed, his starting catcher and best minor-league outfielder. And to get Jose Contreras, he gave up Esteban Loaiza, a pitcher who had just made back-to-back All-Star teams.
Anybody sorry he did?
I appreciate how awkward it is shaking up a championship team this way. A third of the Sox's nine-man batting order could be gone for good.
The Houston Astros and the parade confetti on LaSalle Street barely had been swept when the Sox cut ties with their World Series designated hitter, Carl Everett, and saw their first baseman, Paul Konerko, leave town, possibly to return in a different uniform.
No one embodied the "Win or Die Trying" battle cry of the 2005 season more than the center fielder.
Rowand crashed into a fence Aug. 7 to catch a Richie Sexson fly and save a game for Jon Garland.
In New York a day later, he made a spectacular diving catch at the wall to cost Derek Jeter extra bases, then followed it immediately with an over-the-shoulder grab that robbed Robinson Cano.
No wonder manager Ozzie Guillen raved that Rowand was "better than anyone I've ever seen, and I've seen some good ones."
And no wonder the Yankees were rumored to be in hot pursuit of Rowand ever since the World Series came to an end.
It was just Sunday that Rowand had come to a game of his second-favorite team, the Bears, and had been treated like royalty by Soldier Field fans. And then came Monday night, when Rowand came to the Esquire Theater to help promote a new 2005 World Series DVD.
Asked about rampant trade rumors, Rowand said life was perfect and "I want to spend the rest of my life here."
He lasted less than two more days.
I don't know who are the 10 men I like best in baseball, but I believe Aaron Rowand would make the cut. What's interesting to me about this trade is that Jim Thome is a guy who might make the top 10 as well.
He is a great fit for the Sox, not only as an Illinois boy but as a left-handed power hitter who can play first base (if Konerko doesn't) or be the DH (if Frank Thomas isn't).
Philly fans do get a little mean. In a crash involving Rowand and a fence, they probably will root for the fence. But this is a guy who plays the game with everything he has, so much so that even in a college alumni game with old teammates, Rowand went after a ball so hard that he, yes, crashed into a fence.
Pain comes with this game. And he must be feeling some today, as are many of his fans seeing him leave. Just remember that the Sox got a very good man in return and that a lot of fans felt they would rue the day they traded Lee for Podsednik too.
They did not.
Nice obligatory shot at the Phils fans, pal.
I'm glad that there are rumors that would take at-bats away from David Bell vs. RHP's.
QuoteAnd just as it took guts for the Boston Red Sox to let Pedro Martinez walk away, less than two months after they finally won a World Series.
Uhhhh... yeah.
:sly
Rowand's reaction (http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/media/audio/phillies/112305-rowand.wma) (audio only)
Howard and Johnny Marz! give their thoughts (http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/media/video/phillies/112305-howard.wmv)
Wagner phone interview with Yallof (http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/media/audio/phillies/112305-wags.wma) (audio only)
"The alpaca says 'hi'." :P
rowand sounds pissed. oh well. youll get even more pissed when the sox make it back to the playoffs and the phillies win 88 games and miss them by 1 game again. :-D
apparantley wagner wasnt too happy about thome being traded.
Thome on the trade and his future:
Quote"When I leave the game of baseball someday, I want people to recognize that I always put my teams first," Thome, 35, said in a telephone interview tonight. "That's what I love about the game - being part of the team. I see in Ryan Howard what someone saw in me when I broke into the big leagues. And now it's time for both of us to seize the opportunity ahead of us. It's a win-win situation.
"I really enjoyed my time in Philadelphia, and I want to thank my teammates and the fans for a heck of a ride."
For crying out loud Jim, call us morons, say we're a bunch of idiots in South Philly who sleep with our Sisters...something!
i hate that classy, likeable man. so much.
Quote from: MDS on November 23, 2005, 11:36:39 PM
rowand sounds pissed.
Not really. He sounds like a jilted lover. He'll play this year to try to show the Whiteys that they made a mistake.
Quote from: MDS on November 23, 2005, 11:36:39 PM
apparantley wagner wasnt too happy about thome being traded.
From where did you "hear" that? They freed up money to spend on SP and whatnot. If anything, he should be happy.
And Rowland is a die hard Bears fan. Eats, sleeps and breathes them. When he was drafted by the Sox, he didn't even think about the team he was going to....he thought, "I'm going to be in Chicago! The Bears!"
I heard that the Phils are now shopping Cop Killa to the Yanks.
I like what Gillick is doing.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 24, 2005, 08:27:58 AM
Quote from: MDS on November 23, 2005, 11:36:39 PM
apparantley wagner wasnt too happy about thome being traded.
From where did you "hear" that?
probably in the link above the post, where i heard it.
Urbina, im assuming.
I'm thinking Michaels.
Quote from: MDS on November 23, 2005, 11:36:39 PMapparantley wagner wasnt too happy about thome being traded.
Who cares. It seems Wagner was never happen in Philly to begin with. I hope the Phils don't overpay for him.
Cop Killa = Jason Michaels.
He likes to fight the po's when he's drunk.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 24, 2005, 02:31:23 PM
Cop Killa = Jason Michaels.
He likes to fight the po's when he's drunk.
Well who doesn't :paranoid
michaels is a goner. utley and burrell will have find someone new to hang out with and pick up bimbo's at the clubs.
Quote from: MDS on November 24, 2005, 03:13:53 PM
utley and burrell will have find someone new to hang out with and pick up bimbo's at the clubs.
Right here dude ;D
Quote from: SD_Eagle on November 24, 2005, 05:19:43 PM
Quote from: MDS on November 24, 2005, 03:13:53 PM
utley and burrell will have find someone new to hang out with and pick up bimbo's at the clubs.
Right here dude ;D
:-D
Quote from: MDS on November 24, 2005, 03:13:53 PM
michaels is a goner. utley and burrell will have find someone new to hang out with and pick up bimbo's at the clubs.
There's always IGY...
:yay
IGY doesn't pick up bimbos, he picks up bitches. And he doesn't go to the bars either.
You can find him in da club, bottle full of bub
Look mami I got the X if you into taking drugs
I'm into having sex, I ain't into making love
So come give me a hug if you into to getting rubbed
QuotePosted on Fri, Nov. 25, 2005
Appealing and dealing
Thome trade could be good for both teams
By PAUL HAGEN
hagenp@phillynews.com
JIM THOME will have a big year for the White Sox.
Wanna bet?
If Thome - just 3 years ago the honored guest at Philadelphia's baseball banquet, now seemingly regarded by the same fans as the picked-over turkey carcass the day after Thanksgiving - doesn't hit at least 35 home runs next season, I'll eat this page on the steps of City Hall.
In fact, it wouldn't be a surprise if he doesn't put up bigger numbers than Ryan Howard, the 2005 National League Rookie of the Year whose emergence forced the Phillies to make a move that otherwise would have been almost unthinkable: Thome and $22 million to the White Sox for centerfielder Aaron Rowand and two well-regarded pitching prospects.
The tentative deal, announced Wednesday, is subject to both players passing physicals and approval from the commissioner's office.
The White Sox made a heckuva trade. Howard showed immense promise last year when back and elbow injuries sidelined Thome, batting .288 with 22 homers and 63 RBI in just 88 games.
Thome, however, is a proven difference-maker. And the White Sox, essentially, picked him up for half-price.
It also remains to be seen how free-agent closer Billy Wagner, who is being wooed by the Mets and Phillies, will view a transaction that became public on the same day that the Mets let it be known they have reached a conditional deal to acquire slugging first baseman Carlos Delgado from the Marlins.
All that said, it's hard not to view new Phillies general manager Pat Gillick as a baseball Houdini in all this, miraculously escaping a locked steamer trunk that was wrapped in chains and placed in the middle of the Schuykill Expressway during rush hour.
They said it couldn't be done.
They said the Phillies wouldn't be able to trade Thome because he's 35 years old and coming off an injury-plagued season and due at least $46 million the next 3 years.
Certainly not without eating most of the remaining contract. Certainly not before spring training, after interested clubs had a chance to see him swing following elbow surgery that ended his season. And, most certainly, they would get nothing of value in return.
Well...
White Sox general manager Kenny Williams said it best during the season when he pointed out to a reporter that he couldn't have gotten Scott Podsednik or Jose Uribe if they had been coming off their best seasons. "Their teams would have been a lot more desperate to keep them," he explained.
The Phillies paid $22 million to the White Sox, and that's a lot of money to shell out for a guy to hit homers for another team. Don't forget, though, that they also saved $24 million.
This got done before the winter meetings even started. That gives Gillick a better idea of how much money he has to spend the rest of the winter and also erased an issue that would have hung like a toxic smog over this team until it was resolved.
And the Phillies got significant talent in return. Rowand is the sort of pedal-to-the-metal ballplayer who should not only be popular in Philadelphia but will add a bit of grit to the clubhouse.
The two lefthanders who reportedly will be coming to the Phillies, Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Haigwood, were poised to be named among the White Sox' top pitching prospects by Baseball America.
And, don't forget, Gillick had to find a destination that Thome, who has a complete no-trade clause, would be willing to go. Thome wanted a place where he would be comfortable and a team that had a chance to win. Chicago is close to Thome's Peoria, Ill., boyhood home and his current offseason hunting preserve. And the White Sox are the defending world champions.
So Gillick did pretty doggone well for a guy who wasn't exactly bargaining from a position of strength.
It's clear that he had no choice. He had to trade one of his two lefthanded, power-hitting first basemen. And, realistically, it had to be Thome who was sent packing.
But don't forget that Howard is still, to some extent, an unproven commodity. Jerome Walton, Todd Hollandsworth and Scott Williamson have been NL Rookies of the Year in the last two decades. In that same span, Ben Grieve, Bob Hamelin and Marty Cordova were similarly honored in the American League.
Bruce Ruffin was hailed as the next Steve Carlton when he showed up in Clearwater for spring training in 1987.
He only came up 269 career wins and one Hall of Fame plaque short.
In short, there are no guarantees.
It's not hard to imagine Howard helping the Phillies make it to the playoffs one of these days.
It's even easier to imagine Thome doing it for the White Sox in 2006.
Does anyone else get terribly confused whenever you read one of Paul Hagen's columns? :paranoid
After reading this, I can't figure out whether he thinks the Thome trade was good for the Phillies or disasterous.
I think the Phillies did what they had to. They found a team who was willing to pay nearly half of Thome's contract and that's a miracle in itself. Add to the fact that they addressed a glaring need in center and got not one but TWO highly regarded pitching prospects in return... well, I can't see how Gillick could have done much better.
Am I wrong here or is Hagen deliberately playing devil's advocate where doing so isn't warranted?
Dayn Perry (foxsports.com) thinks Phillies got better end of Thome trade (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5111062?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49)
Granted, Dayn Perry's an idiot...
Quote from: Geowhizzer on November 25, 2005, 07:44:20 AM
Dayn Perry (foxsports.com) thinks Phillies got better end of Thome trade (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5111062?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49)
Granted, Dayn Perry's an idiot...
Idiot or not, at least he didn't straddle the fence like Hagen while writing his column.
Like I said, Thome pretty much had to go. Do you bench the reigning ROY, or do you bench a $15M/year player with over 400 career HRs? That would be a no-win situation, and neither can play another position.
As it was, Gillick made a pretty good deal with the limitations he had (Thome's FNTC, salary, and coming off a poor, injury-plagued season at age 34) in getting Rowand and two good pitching prospects, and parting with only $22M. I actually though teams would demand more $$$ for Thome.
Wagner: It's a 'one-horse race' (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/story/368560p-313577c.html)
that's the headline but I can't read the article due to work filters. If anybody would be so kind as to post the article, I would appreciate it.
hagen sucks and has always sucked
that's the headline but I can't read the article due to work filters. If anybody would be so kind as to post the article, I would appreciate it.
Billy Wagner criticized the Phillies' efforts to retain him, telling the Mets' Web site his current team is "taking one step back to take one step forward" and calling the Mets' pursuit a "one-horse race."
The Phillies were believed to have upped their offer yesterday, guaranteeing a third year at roughly $30 million, but seem reluctant to trump Mariano Rivera's $10.5 million salary. The Mets initially offered three years at more than $30 million with an '09 option.
fwiw gammons said this morning that mets will sign wagner and the phillies will sign bj ryan for something like 4 years 36 million
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 25, 2005, 10:39:32 AM
fwiw gammons said this morning that mets will sign wagner and the phillies will sign bj ryan for something like 4 years 36 million
that's the way I'd prefer them to go anyway.
Ditto, Mo.
Wagner's an asshat and his miserable defeatist attitude won't be missed by this observer. Not one damn bit, in fact.
i dont think ryan is a closer...hes a one year wonder at that position imo...hes a lot closer to buddy groom than he is billy wagner
it scares me to give a guy with 42 career saves in seven years that kind of money
that said it scares me to give wagner four years at his age
gammons was saying that wagner wasnt able to get batters out in the 8th inning this year cause he couldnt come out there in the 8th then sit down for a half inning and get back up for the 9th...he just wasnt physically able to do it.....yikes
I wanted Wagner back but oh well. 4 years (or 3 with an option) at his asking price with his age is absurd.
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 25, 2005, 10:49:47 AM
imo i dont think ryan is a closer...hes a one year wonder at that position imo...hes a lot closer to buddy groom than he is billy wagner
it scares me to give a guy with 42 career saves in seven years that kind of money
36 of those saves were last season though. Sometimes it takes pitchers some time to find their niche, they're not starter material so they do the middle relief thing for a while and take advantage of the closer role when it's available. 4 years $36 million is a bit much, but that's the going rate for relief pitching. I like the Thome trade and am willing to give Gillick the benefit of the doubt (if this is true) for the time being.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 25, 2005, 10:45:28 AM
Ditto, Mo.
Wagner's an asshat and his miserable defeatist attitude won't be missed by this observer. Not one damn bit, in fact.
My thoughts exactly. I originally liked his "firey" attitude until I realized he was actually just being a whiny bitc#.
Wagner's being ridiculous. Getting Ryan is the only available and reasonable option. Let's hope.
I'm wondering how Wagner's agent (aka PhillyPhreak54) is feeling about him now?
:-D
I understand Phreak's point of view, but even he doesn't want the Phillies to go 4 years on Wags.
If Billy can pull down 4 years, $40 mill from the Mets with a full NTC, more power to him.
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 25, 2005, 10:49:47 AMit scares me to give a guy with 42 career saves in seven years that kind of money
Under that thinking, Eric Gagne only had 52 saves in 4 years after the 2002 season....
thats why we need proven closers like tim worrell and jose mesa back.
Under that thinking, Eric Gagne only had 52 saves in 4 years after the 2002 season
not sure what eric gagne has to do with bj ryan...but fine im on board... throw the money at bj...hell what do i care it aint my money and theres no cap
but just remember i told you...the guy is NOT a closer
This was Ryan's first year as a closer. Of course he didn't have many in his first 6 years. Same thing with Gagne. His first 3 years, he was a starter, not a closer....
If Ryan is the 2nd best available, and the best available is charging way beyond market value, then you get Ryan.
Or, they could just say out loud, "We suck and we know it," and go ahead and make Madsen or Padilla the closer.
Thome and Rowand passed physicals...trade became official at 5pm...
goodie!
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 25, 2005, 10:39:32 AM
that's the headline but I can't read the article due to work filters. If anybody would be so kind as to post the article, I would appreciate it.
Billy Wagner criticized the Phillies' efforts to retain him, telling the Mets' Web site his current team is "taking one step back to take one step forward" and calling the Mets' pursuit a "one-horse race."
The Phillies were believed to have upped their offer yesterday, guaranteeing a third year at roughly $30 million, but seem reluctant to trump Mariano Rivera's $10.5 million salary. The Mets initially offered three years at more than $30 million with an '09 option.
fwiw gammons said this morning that mets will sign wagner and the phillies will sign bj ryan for something like 4 years 36 million
The Jays just signed BJ Ryan--5 years, 47M.
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_...1p-313970c.html
Crap.
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051126/capt.pxs10311260010.phillies_white_sox_trade_pxs103.jpg) (http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051125/capt.pxs10111252356.phillies_white_sox_trade_pxs101.jpg)
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051126/capt.pxs10211260002.phillies_white_sox_trade_pxs102.jpg) (http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051126/capt.pxs10711260050.phillies_white_sox_trade_pxs107.jpg)
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051126/capt.pxs10411260045.phillies_white_sox_trade_pxs104.jpg)
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 25, 2005, 12:35:26 PM
I'm wondering how Wagner's agent (aka PhillyPhreak54) is feeling about him now?
:-D
:-D :-D
Its obvious to me that Wags is still playing the FA game and some of y'all can't see through the mist of BS he's spewing.
To the NY media he pimps the Mets and dismisses the Phils
To the PHL media he pimps the Phils and dismisses the Mets by saying he doesn't know if he is suited for NY.
But like I've said before and FF pointed out - i do not want them giving him 4 years at all. I would give him 3 years $33M and a FNTC. Top the Rivera salary and get it done.
Trevor Hoffman - 38 year old slopballer
Bob Wickman - 37 year old slopballer
Jose Mesa - 109 year old loser
Bobby Howry is off the market (going to the Cubs)
BJ Ryan is off the market
And the guy who the Marlins tossed into the Beckett-Lowell deal, Guillermo Mota, is a guy who I thought the Phils could pursue as a plan B. But now he's in Boston.
Who's left?
Billy Wagner. Sign him.
Free agent RP's for your viewing pleasure (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?positionId=0)
Take note of the age and who is on that list and get back to me.
The only options under age 30 were Kyle Farnsworth and BJ Ryan.
Farnsworth is still out there but he is far from being a lights out closer.
Quote from: bobbyinlondon on November 25, 2005, 07:52:49 PM
The Jays just signed BJ Ryan--5 years, 47M.
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_...1p-313970c.html
Absolutely ridiculous contract. And here I thought the Phils deal was high. Wowsers.
Love to get Farnsworth in the primary set-up/ back-up closer role, and re-sign Wagner.
That would be an awesome 1-2 punch to end the game.
Is anyone else surprised that Felix Heredia is only listed as 30 years of age? I would've pegged him at close to 40 at this point.
I wouldn't mind Farnsworth (who reminds me of Jason Short - crazy and likes to hit guys) as the set-up guy.
But I don't want him as the closer.
Rowand looks like he's adjusted to the deal. I give Gillick credit for addressing two fairly major needs (young farm system pitching talent and starting CF) with only a redundant injury-plagued 35-year-old.
The closer issue is big now, though. Unless he can pull a trade out of his arse, he may have to give Wagner slightly over $30 mill and a full NTC. Frikkin' sucks, but the Ryan deal set the market value.
If they're giving B.J. Ryan five years and forty seven million dollars, then I wouldn't even bother with free agency any longer.
Clearly other MLB clubs are insane again with the free agency spending sprees.
Get Crazy Vicente warmed up in the pen, baby!
(http://www.weitzelworld.com/pad.gif)
:-D
being in the bullpen will give vince a chance to catch up on some of his drinking. wouldnt shock me if he hides a bottle of jack somewhere in the pen.
Obviously he'll be doing shots with the fans out there. Maybe I'll go join ol' Crazy V for a shot or two of vodka.
Billy Wags still needs to be option number one, two and three.
Padilla is the final, last ditch option.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 26, 2005, 08:08:19 AM
Obviously he'll be doing shots with the fans out there. Maybe I'll go join ol' Crazy V for a shot or two of vodka.
Dude, I am sooooo coming up for a game with you this year. Just remember the bail money.
:yay
I always take extra cash with me to games. Never know when a good ol' bail bondsman will be needed. :deion :D
Also - I think Gillick might package Abreu for a closer. I don't know why but after reading through his post-Rowand press conference comments, I think he's done with Fagner. Pat's old skool and I don't think he appreciates being punked the way he's been in this situation.
The hick is a Met. Let's come to grips with that and move on. The Phils will have plenty of chances to make him regret that decision, and personally, I can't wait to see them farg him up the ass every chance they get.
As his agent,I Mr. Bean Phreakfellow, I ask you to refrain from calling my client Fagner or I might have to hurt you. Thanks.
If Abreu goes I bet its for a starter.
From today's Daily News:
QuoteGillick said the Phillies made offers to two setup relievers who signed with the Cubs, Scott Eyre and Bobby Howry.
Looks like Pat wanted them to be the set-up guys for Wags...
Eyre (Cormier's replacement)
Howry - 8th inning guy
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 26, 2005, 08:54:02 AM
As his agent,I Mr. Bean Phreakfellow, I ask you to refrain from calling my client Fagner or I might have to hurt you. Thanks.
:-D
I have only just heard about the A-Row/Thome trade. My initial thoughts ... BOOOOOOOOOOOO! Hopefully, Rowand's not as thirsty now he has drank from the cup, vice-versa with Thome! ;) However it now seems set in stone that Paulie/Big Frank/both are/is gone. :'( Crash is tremendous, best of luck with the Phillies!
The Phillies have emerged as the most aggressive suitor for free-agent reliever Tom Gordon (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5116520)
As a setup man for Wags or as a closer if Wags leaves.
hooray for almost 40 year old releivers! :yay
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 28, 2005, 09:47:22 AM
The Phillies have emerged as the most aggressive suitor for free-agent reliever Tom Gordon (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5116520)
Two first names! :yay
get Turk Wendell!
Turk Wendell + Dennis Cook + Tom Gordon = World Series
Gordon would cost us a 1st round pick :P
who cares. draft picks are for homos.
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 28, 2005, 01:18:00 PM
Gordon would cost us a 1st round pick :P
The board administrators should strongly consider a suspension from posting for you for smilie abuse.
Smilies are the most non-hetero thing about posting on a message board, and the list of non-hetero things is pretty damn long.
bleh
Anyway, the Braves are now interested in Wagner too. So are the Red Sox. Joy.
I say let Wags go (because you'd have to give him 4 years IMO) and acquire another closer via trade.
Quote from: rjs246 on November 28, 2005, 02:18:42 PM
Smilies are the most non-hetero thing about posting on a message board, and the list of non-hetero things is pretty damn long.
:-D :D ;D ;) :o 8) :P :-* :evil :sly :-o :) :-D :paranoid
Coming out on a message board is also pretty weak.
Touche. R3d5k1nz Lu\/r.
You're just running the gamut, aren't you.
QuoteALERT Mets land closer Wagner
The Mets have landed coveted closer Billy Wagner in a four-year deal, Ken Rosenthal reports.
foxsports.com
Not shocked, not in the least. :deion
FoxSports Link (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5117698)
QuoteMets land closer Wagner
Story Tools: Print Email XML
Ken Rosenthal / FOXSports.com
Posted: 2 minutes ago
The Mets have landed coveted closer Billy Wagner in a four-year deal worth $43 million.
The deal could be worth as much as $50 million as it includes a fifth-year option for the Mets worth $10 million. But if the team declines the option, Wagner gets a $3 million buyout which is considered part of the original $43 million deal.
Two of the Mets' NL East rivals, the Phillies and Braves, also were trying to sign Wagner.
Wagner was 4-3 with 38 saves and a 1.51 ERA last season for Philadelphia, which wanted to re-sign him. After spending most of his career with Houston, his two seasons with the Phillies showed the left-hander he could handle pitching in a tough city.
"I think if I had an opportunity to play in New York four or five years ago, I probably wouldn't have been as receptive to it," Wagner said last week. "After the trade of going to Philadelphia and playing there, I believe that's made it that much easier to handle the media, the pressures."
In recent days, the Phillies have become the most aggressive suitor for free-agent right-hander Tom Gordon, whom they now could target as their closer.
What a douche.
The Mets will be regretting this deal no later than mid-season 2007.
The 18th pick is ours. Yay Tom Gordon.
4 years 43 mil guaranteed. haha. what a dumb move.
The BJ Ryan deal ended up forcing the Mets to go higher. 4 years at $43M with a $10M option for the 5th year is way too much. As much as I wanted Billy back, I did not want him back at that price. Now its time to root against him and hope he breaks down and the Mets get the shaft.
Tom Gordon doesn't get me all warm and fuzzy, but he'll likely be signed.
Another option...
Danys Baez from Tamp Bay
The Rays hve been trying to deal him and Aubrey Huff. If I were Gillick I would acquire him and if TB insists on the two as a package I would spin Huff off to an AL team that wants him (Boston).
Now use that earmarked Billy Wags money and go get Bengie Molina or Ramon Hernandez!
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051128/capt.cx10111282138.white_sox_thome_cx101.jpg)
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051128/capt.cx10211282133.white_sox_thome_cx102.jpg)
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051128/capt.cx10311282137.white_sox_thome_cx103.jpg)
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051128/capt.cx10411282137.white_sox_thome_cx104.jpg)
:(
I wish Jim Thome had been a jerk when he was in Philly so I could say something mean about him. I can say Billy Wagner is a toolshed though.
i wonder if he ran out of the press conference crying about his hot wife like he did here. loser!!
He was crying because Ed Wade was trying to fondle him.
dont try to cover up for jim thome being a giant classy, likeable vagina. thats what he is.
I told you Fagner was a fleshpophead.
4 years/$43Million... ahahahaha!
Absolutely ridiculous. Good riddance, asswipe.
Thome likes Konerko (http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/media/video/whitesox/Thome1_16x9.wmv)
Thome will be ready for spring training (http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/media/video/whitesox/Thome2_16x9.wmv)
Thome likes playing in Chicago (http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/media/video/whitesox/Thome3_16x9.wmv)
Why's he the d-head? He just took the keys to the Mets vault.
Minaya should be the guy who you're laughing at, Romey Rome. :P
wagner sucks. thome sucks. booooooooo.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 28, 2005, 06:10:09 PM
Why's he the d-head? He just took the keys to the Mets vault.
Minaya should be the guy who you're laughing at, Romey Rome. :P
He's a farging loser, bro. And at $43M for four years, he's a gallactically overpaid loser at that.
The Mets just got farged up the ass by signing that puke. Other than the Yankees, I can't think of a better team for him to end up with. Their fans are big mouth iceholes and he'll fit right in with the lot of them.
Seriously, this is a good thing for the Phillies. Now they can concentrate on improving the rest of the team instead of just one position.
Kyle Farnsworth
Tom Gordon
Bob "half a finger" Wickman
Trevor Hoffman
Danys Baez
Who do you guys want?
robinson tejeda. spend the money on catcher.
Hmmm...I like Tejeda and all but having a closer who cannot throw strikes with regularity isn't a good thing.
If they trade Abreu they'll have a wad o' cash to use on a catcher, 3B and bench help.
Abreu money gone
Thome money gone (some of it)
Wags money gone
I'd still go Farnsworth.
not much can be done at third. bell is untradeable, and there is nobody that good out there that i want starting against lhp over bell (ha, not a joke.)
with catcher, i think they seriously need to get hernandez or molina. with lieberthal, they could then trade him and pick up about 95% of his contract. even freeing up 1 mil is better than not at all. get loserthal out of here.
this could also free up a little more money for starting pitching. matt morris, aj burnett....maybe.
the bullpen, i would be fine with gordon, madson, tejeda, brito, fultz....then, you add someone mid-year if you need to.
Thome's CSN Chicago appearance will be shown on CSN Philly in 30 mins...
The Phillies found someone to take Jim Thome and still get real value in return.
If they can accomplish that, then getting rid of a piece of flotsam like David Bell shouldn't be a herculean task.
At the very least, get a kid in here that Bell can help groom for 2007. If he's half the "team player" they say he is, he'll jump at the chance. Trade Abreu for a starter and a legitimate 3rd base prospect and I'd be happier than Michael Irvin in Amsterdam.
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 28, 2005, 07:34:33 PM
Thome's CSN Chicago appearance will be shown on CSN Philly in 30 mins...
blast from the past! its pat boyle and dan pleasac.
"My elbow's healing nice, but I can't seem to get rid of these hemorrhoids."
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051128/capt.cx10311282137.white_sox_thome_cx103.jpg)
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Mets Fans
P.S - gift basket is in the mail
see if you're thanking us in a year and a half when Wagner pitches 35 innings due to injury and he still has 2 years guarenteed on that contract.
They don't care about three years from now. They care about now. When you're in the same town as the yankees you can't go too many years without winning something. So if it takes giving wagner a four year deal thats really only going to benefit the Mets for two years, then yeah, they're all for it.
Plus its baseball, where money doesnt matter. Thats why football is better.
Quote from: thrillhouse on November 28, 2005, 09:31:52 PM
They don't care about three years from now. They care about now. When you're in the same town as the yankees you can't go too many years without winning something. So if it takes giving wagner a four year deal thats really only going to benefit the Mets for two years, then yeah, they're all for it.
Plus its baseball, where money doesnt matter. Thats why football is better.
It's been nearly 20 years since the Mets won anything, Chief. ;)
Better to get it right now than 10 years from now because you overspent on someone like Wagner.
Well they got there in 2000, but they were beat by a team that threw more money at more players then them.
....and it was the least likable World Series ever...
and one of the least watched. cause no one outside of new york gave a shtein.
Quote from: thrillhouse on November 28, 2005, 09:31:52 PM
They don't care about three years from now. They care about now. When you're in the same town as the yankees you can't go too many years without winning something. So if it takes giving wagner a four year deal thats really only going to benefit the Mets for two years, then yeah, they're all for it.
Plus its baseball, where money doesnt matter. Thats why football is better.
Interesting--they threw money at Beltran and Martinez and didn't win. And what if he has a recurrence of the injuries he had in 2004?
Quote from: bobbyinlondon on November 28, 2005, 11:13:01 PM
Quote from: thrillhouse on November 28, 2005, 09:31:52 PM
They don't care about three years from now. They care about now. When you're in the same town as the yankees you can't go too many years without winning something. So if it takes giving wagner a four year deal thats really only going to benefit the Mets for two years, then yeah, they're all for it.
Plus its baseball, where money doesnt matter. Thats why football is better.
Interesting--they threw money at Beltran and Martinez and didn't win. And what if he has a recurrence of the injuries he had in 2004?
Yeah but they went from 20 games under .500 to 4 games above it in one year so it helped. So the same goes for this offseason with Delgado and Wagner and whoever else they sign. Mets desperately needed a first baseman and a real closer.
Jayson Stark (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2239894)
QuoteThe Phillies have stepped up their efforts to sign Gordon in recent days, according to two sources who have spoken with them. What is still unclear is whether they are willing to give Gordon the three-year contract he is looking for at age 38.
It's believed the Phillies have an offer on the table for Gordon, but indications are that it's for less than three years. And GM Pat Gillick expressed reluctance Monday to give contracts that long to 38-year-old pitchers like Gordon and Trevor Hoffman, who have now moved to the top of the free-agent closer heap.
QuoteIn fact, that somebody might just get that deal from the Phillies. They've kicked the tires on nearly all the available closers -- from Gordon and Hoffman to Bob Wickman and Kyle Farnsworth. But every indication is that they've been the most aggressive team in the market in pursuit of Gordon, whom they've tried to sign on two previous occasions in the past.
Gordon -- who spent the last two seasons as Mariano Rivera's primary setup man in The Bronx -- hasn't been a full-time closer since 2001. But aside from saves, his stats the last two years were as close to Wagner's as any free agent out there.
Opposing hitters batted .180 and .203, respectively, with microscopic on-base percentages of .237 and .272, against Gordon over the last two seasons. That's not quite up there with Wagner's .181 and .165 batting averages, and .218 and .229 on-base percentages. But at this point, the Phillies can't be too picky.
QuoteAnd since the Phillies need to add setup men in addition to a closer, that would free up money to reel in both. And the Phillies are also actively chasing setup men. They'd been interested in Gordon whether they signed Wagner or not. And they made a run at Bobby Howry before he agreed to a three-year, $13-million deal with the Cubs.
They're now believed to be honing in on deals with Wagner's predecessor with the Mets, Braden Looper, and former Brewers righthander Rafael Santana -- both of whom would be used to set up.
But the top priority, Gillick said, is a proven closer -- especially now.
"You'd rather have ... someone who has done it," he said. "So certainly, you've got to have somebody who can handle that situation. If you're talking about a club that is out of contention, maybe they can take a chance on a young guy. But it's different for a team that's trying to contend."
Julio Santana stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5755)
I believe Stark was talking about Julio Santana and not Rafael Santana.
And the last quote by Gillick basically shuts down the "move Madson or Padilla or Tejeda" to closer crowd.
i like farnsworth and gordon together doing whatever. combined wont cost as much as wagner.
LOL, Mets "fans" thanking Phillies fans.
Classic.
Overpay much?
It's funny to hear Mets fans whining about the Yankees buying a team.
Overpay much?
who cares its not the fans money and theres no cap
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2005, 09:29:16 AM
Overpay much?
who cares its not the fans money and theres no cap
but their are budgets, for most teams anyway
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2005, 09:29:16 AM
Overpay much?
who cares its not the fans money and theres no cap
i agree with that. the budgets are set by the team.
and losing wagner is a big loss. there is no closer on this team, the one bright spot of the bullpen is gone. and they're looking at OLDER pitchers?
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2005, 09:29:16 AM
Overpay much?
who cares its not the fans money and theres no cap
It will become the fans' money as the team raises ticket prices to pay the bills.
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 29, 2005, 10:21:05 AM
It will become the fans' money as the team raises ticket prices to pay the bills.
Luckily not enough people care about the Phillies so when they raise prices attendance will plummet.
It will become the fans' money as the team raises ticket prices to pay the bills
the mets are spending money because they have that tv network not because ticket prices are going up
regardless if they go up you can choose whether you want to buy them or not...no one is forcing you to go to games...id rather watch a winner on TV than a loser in person
baseball tickets are cheap anyway
At least the Phillies are the best team in their home city...
The Mets will open CSN New York next year. That's why they have a bunch of money to play with....
[who cares] Quick clarification of the supplemental pick at the end of the 1st round: they don't get #31. If other teams worse than the Phils continue to lose "Type A" players, the Phils' pick moves down. Right now the Orioles get #31 for Ryan and the Phils get #32 for Wagner. [/wc]
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2005, 10:28:55 AM
It will become the fans' money as the team raises ticket prices to pay the bills
the mets are spending money because they have that tv network not because ticket prices are going up
regardless if they go up you can choose whether you want to buy them or not...no one is forcing you to go to games...id rather watch a winner on TV than a loser in person
baseball tickets are cheap anyway
Exactly.
I hardly go to Shea to see any games. Its a dump. I watch the mets in philly as much as in Flushing.
mlb draft picks are so valuable ::)
thats why they have 40+ rounds
Quote from: thrillhouse on November 29, 2005, 01:32:49 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2005, 10:28:55 AM
It will become the fans' money as the team raises ticket prices to pay the bills
the mets are spending money because they have that tv network not because ticket prices are going up
regardless if they go up you can choose whether you want to buy them or not...no one is forcing you to go to games...id rather watch a winner on TV than a loser in person
baseball tickets are cheap anyway
Exactly.
I hardly go to Shea to see any games. Its a dump. I watch the mets in philly as much as in Flushing.
thats the problem. all those stupid nj mets fans refuse to go the shea and instead come down here smelling of booze.
They don't smell any more like booze than we do.
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 29, 2005, 01:41:07 PM
They don't smell any more like booze than we do.
I would submit that no one smells more like booze than Philadelphia fans.
i just hate people from new jersey, thats all.
phils signed nunez today
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2005, 02:04:28 PM
phils signed nunez today
Is he the guy that can play 3rd
and hit right-handed pitching?
that would be him
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2005, 02:26:30 PM
that would be him
Cool. Just found this link (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2240915).
Small signing, but I think it really improves the lineup.
if it means even one less at bat for bell then yes it is an improvement
Nunez = Placido Polanco at about 1/2 the price.
Nice signing. Definitely gives the Phils insurance for when Bell inevitably breaks down again.
In other news, Wagner was offered no less than $31 million over 3 years to stay here (higher than his initial demands). Not that I blame him, but he really can't argue that he left for any reason other than money. If Wade had given him the 3/$30 offer months ago, the Phillies wouldn't have a big question mark at closer.
it is a good signing but....
polanco>>>>>>>nunez
nunez is much closer to martinez than he is polanco
Nunez has the rep as a clutch player... a guy whose stats aren't as good as his skills. Let's hope it stays that way.
I think Polanco is a borderline starter in the major leagues who the Tigers grossly overpaid. IMO, Nunez is roughly equivalent in terms of talent and production to Polanco.
If you look at their combined stats, they're roughly the same in most regards.
Whatever, though. Good signing none the less.
not if you listen to all the baseball geniuses over at PhilliesPhans. those guys make TATErs look like Stephen Hawking, sans wheelchair and voice thing.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 29, 2005, 03:36:16 PM
not if you listen to all the baseball geniuses over at PhilliesPhans. those guys make TATErs look like Stephen Hawking, sans wheelchair and voice thing.
Pfft... I can't remember the last time I visited that forum. I think it was when the Phillies hired Gillick. I went in there and carpet-bombed the place.
I think I was banned, actually.
:-D
i dont really understand how you could get excitable about this either way...its a solid signing....there isnt one bad thing you can say about it nor is there anything overly positive about it either
Pfft... I can't remember the last time I visited that forum. I think it was when the Phillies hired Gillick. I went in there and carpet-bombed the place.
I think I was banned, actually.
i never even heard about that board
is it philliesphans.com
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 29, 2005, 03:40:52 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 29, 2005, 03:36:16 PM
not if you listen to all the baseball geniuses over at PhilliesPhans. those guys make TATErs look like Stephen Hawking, sans wheelchair and voice thing.
Pfft... I can't remember the last time I visited that forum. I think it was when the Phillies hired Gillick. I went in there and carpet-bombed the place.
I think I was banned, actually.
:-D
i was on my way to being banned yesterday but I stopped just short. but everyone there is really pompus and arrogant, it's kinda sad.
IGY, i'm with you. but the Abner Doubleday Jr's over there would disagree (http://www.philliesphans.com/phorum/viewtopic.php?t=30982)
"I'm willing to call out Gillick and this was a positively Wade-ish move"
lololol
think ill stay away from that place
Thomefan25 is laying it out step by step and is being torn to shreds because he agrees with the signing.
Yet somehow, if you utter even a mild curseword on that forum, the Mods are on you faster than a fly on shtein.
:puke
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2005, 03:47:37 PM
"I'm willing to call out Gillick and this was a positively Wade-ish move"
lololol
think ill stay away from that place
you would go crazy, their logic is more twisted than the most homerific TATEr
the way they talk about the current team, they've won the past 5 WS
are you kidding??
at least there is somewhat of a foundation for eagle fans being homers...the phillies havent won ish
im confused tho if they are all homertastic why are they ripping the nunez move
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051129/capt.ny15911292012.phillies_nunez_ny159.jpg)
Glamour shot
:-D
(http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/mlb/photo/photogallery/2003_firsthalf_byteam/pit/03.jpg)
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2005, 03:52:44 PM
are you kidding??
at least there is somewhat of a foundation for eagle fans being homers...the phillies havent won ish
im confused tho if they are all homertastic why are they ripping the nunez move
because they don't think he's an upgrade to either Thomas Perez or David Bell
oh and the fact that there is a thread suggesting Randy Wolf as a closer, and it's not a joke, should be proof enough that the internet needs to be destroyed.
goodbye tomas perez.
thank you.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 29, 2005, 04:00:06 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2005, 03:52:44 PM
are you kidding??
at least there is somewhat of a foundation for eagle fans being homers...the phillies havent won ish
im confused tho if they are all homertastic why are they ripping the nunez move
because they don't think he's an upgrade to either Thomas Perez or David Bell
Anyone is an upgrade over Bell. Perez sucks and I'd be happy if they cut his pie-throwing ass.
Nunez is a utility player, period. He's not the 3B of the future by any means, yet they're treating his signing as if Brooks Robinson in his prime is available yet the Phillies chose Nunez instead.
Still, it's entertaining reading over there... :-D
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 29, 2005, 04:04:06 PM
oh and the fact that there is a thread suggesting Randy Wolf as a closer, and it's not a joke, should be proof enough that the internet needs to be destroyed.
What would Big Ed do then?
:'(
oh and the fact that there is a thread suggesting Randy Wolf as a closer, and it's not a joke
holy farg
i take it back...i think i may have to go there for the entertainment value...just to lurk as i have a feeling if i were to post id be banned in a cocaine heartbeat
ballparking the lineups:
RHP: Rollins-Utley-Abreu-Burrell-Howard-Rowand-Nunez-Loserthal
LHP: Rollins-Rowand-Abreu-Burrell-Utley-Bell-Howard/Michaels-Loserthal
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 29, 2005, 04:08:15 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 29, 2005, 04:04:06 PM
oh and the fact that there is a thread suggesting Randy Wolf as a closer, and it's not a joke, should be proof enough that the internet needs to be destroyed.
What would Big Ed do then?
:'(
go outside for the 1st time since 1989?
This just in: Wagner claiming that the full NTC was his main reason for leaving.
QuoteWhile the Mets offered a no-trade clause, he said Philadelphia was willing to include it for only the first two years of a contract.
"It came down to the no-trade," he said. "To me that played a very important role."
Um... I don't believe him.
go away billy.
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051129/capt.nyff10511292127.mets_wagner_nyff105.jpg) (http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051129/capt.nyff10611292127.mets_wagner_nyff106.jpg)
Pay me!
i hope his arm falls off.
i hope his penis falls off
i hope a million dollars fall off, while he walks near me and doesnt see it.
I like this quote from today:
Quote"I talked to a lot of guys on Philadelphia. I think they all understand it's not about them. It's about trying to be on the best team and trying to win a World Series."
"Sorry guys....I like you, but you suck." :flipoff
I like this lineup:
Rollins
Howard
Utley
Burrell
Abreu
Rowand
Bell
Lieberthal
pitcher
:paranoid
Billy Wags looks like that little kid from the movie Little Big League...
Billy Haywood!
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 29, 2005, 05:51:31 PM
I like this lineup:
Rollins
Howard
Utley
Burrell
Abreu
Rowand
Bell
Lieberthal
pitcher
:paranoid
howard second!! youre nuts!!!!
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 29, 2005, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 29, 2005, 04:08:15 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 29, 2005, 04:04:06 PM
oh and the fact that there is a thread suggesting Randy Wolf as a closer, and it's not a joke, should be proof enough that the internet needs to be destroyed.
What would Big Ed do then?
:'(
go outside for the 1st time since 1989?
hurtful :'(
I like the Nunez signing though. I give it a thumbs up. :yay Why would anyone hate it? At worst the guy allows them to get rid of Perez
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 29, 2005, 06:13:16 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 29, 2005, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 29, 2005, 04:08:15 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 29, 2005, 04:04:06 PM
oh and the fact that there is a thread suggesting Randy Wolf as a closer, and it's not a joke, should be proof enough that the internet needs to be destroyed.
What would Big Ed do then?
:'(
go outside for the 1st time since 1989?
hurtful :'(
i'm sorry fella, i take it back.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 29, 2005, 06:36:10 PM
I like the Nunez signing though. I give it a thumbs up. :yay Why would anyone hate it? At worst the guy allows them to get rid of Perez
Like I said, some "experts" ::) hate it because Nunez isn't the second-coming of Brooks Robinson.
They see the Mutts making big splashes in free agency and expect the Phillies to do likewise. The Phillies line-up is basically set unless Gillick pulls a miracle out of his ass and gets an all-star caliber 3B for Abreu.
Other than that, the line-up is set for 2006, so we all better get used to it.
Rollins
Utley
Abreu
Howard
Burrell
Rowand
Lieberthal
Bell
Pitcher
Like it or not, that's it, folks.
I'm guessing that Howard and Burrell are switched in the order to the the LRL that managers seem to love so much.
Rollins
Utley
Abreu
Burrell
Howard
Rowand
Bell
Lieberthal
pitcher
That's the lineup as of now...
Meanwhile, it looks like we got a new pitcher.....J. Santana! :D
Nope, not Johan. Julio.
awsome
More from Wagner--doesn't surprise me:
Posted on Wed, Nov. 30, 2005
Burning Bridges, Mending Fences
Wagner: Phils not committed fully to winning
By Jim Salisbury
Inquirer Staff Writer
NEW YORK - On his first day as New York Mets closer, Billy Wagner came out throwing heat at his old team.
He trashed the Phillies' commitment to winning, wondered about their plan for this season, and said he'd likely still be with the club if it had been willing to give him a three-year, $24 million contract in July.
Instead, he officially became a Met yesterday, signing a four-year, $43 million contract that, according to agent Bean Stringfellow, easily topped the Phillies' best offer.
"The Mets are trying to win a World Series," Wagner said at Shea Stadium. "I felt like this was the right place to be."
And about the team 100 miles down the road?
"There's a difference between winning and being competitive," Wagner said. "In the end, I thought [the Phillies] were more interested in being competitive than winning.
"My goal is to get to the Hall of Fame and win a World Series. There's no doubt [Mets] ownership has resources and a competitive edge. They'll do whatever it takes to win. That's a huge plus."
Wagner, 34, leaned heavily toward the Mets after receiving a three-year, $30.25 million offer during a red-carpet visit to New York last week.
He became convinced that the Mets were his team when they guaranteed a fourth year, added an option for a fifth, and gave him a full no-trade clause Monday morning.
"We heard the Phillies had scheduled a conference call with Billy for [Monday] afternoon and that ownership was ready to review its offer," said Jeff Wilpon, the Mets' chief operating officer. "That's when we added a fourth year."
Wagner was so impressed with the Mets' offer that he had Stringfellow cancel the conference call with the Phillies, who, sources say, were ready to raise their offer and add a fourth-year option.
"I knew they wouldn't match all the Mets had done," Wagner said of his decision not to speak one last time with the Phillies. "They were still worried about age and all that stuff organizations worry about."
According to Stringfellow, the Phillies' best offer was three years and $25.5 million. Stringfellow said the value of the contract could have risen to just over $30 million with incentives based on games finished.
Wagner was not surprised that the Phillies weren't more aggressive.
"Not considering I gave them three for 24 [three years and $24 million] at the trade deadline and they laughed at me," he said.
Phillies assistant general manager Ruben Amaro took umbrage with that comment.
"That's untrue," he said by telephone from Philadelphia. "No one laughed. The reason we were taken aback was that his original asking price was two years and $16 million. When we offered that, the asking price changed to three years at $24 million."
The Phillies were unwilling to offer three years in July because Wagner turned 34 that month and the team had concerns about the long-term health of his left shoulder. Wagner had spent time on the disabled list with a strained shoulder in 2004.
Like his predecessor, Ed Wade, new general manager Pat Gillick made keeping Wagner a top priority. Gillick improved the Phillies' offer to three years and was willing to add a fourth-year option, but it wasn't enough.
"If Pat had gotten there earlier, I think he could have gotten something done," Wagner said. "He didn't have much time."
Gillick and Wagner had one face-to-face meeting and the pitcher, at the time, said he was impressed with the new GM's plan.
Yesterday, Wagner made an about-face.
"For me, the question I had all along was I wanted to know their plan for getting relief and starting pitching and they really didn't have answers because Pat just got there," Wagner said.
"While the Phillies were getting rid of one guy, the Mets were buying up talent, and that's hard to overlook."
The "talent" Wagner referred to is slugger Carlos Delgado, whom the Mets picked up the same day the Phillies traded Jim Thome to the White Sox last week.
Wagner has 284 career saves, 59 of which came with the Phillies in the last two years. His legacy in Philadelphia may end up being the left-field wall at Citizens Bank Park. He frequently complained about it being too close. This week, construction crews will begin moving the wall back.
Wagner, at times, also complained about how close fans were allowed to get to the bullpens in Philadelphia, and how they would deride relievers during the game.
As a Met, he will play three series a year in Philadelphia.
"I'm sure I'll be treated the same way everyone else is," Wagner said. "I'll be heckled. The fans there are passionate. They're going to think I ran to the money - which I guess they would have passed up - but I get heckled in every park. It's part of the game."
To date the Mets haven't been able to gel as a team.
Will be interesting to see how Wagner fits in with the group of Egomaniacs the Mets have...
farg Wagner, now I have another reason to hate the farging Mets. While he may be right, keep your comments to yourself asswipe.
Well, Stark was right about getting Santana. Let's see if the Flash Gordon shoe drops soon too.
I still think they should go after Flash as a s/u guy and trade for Danys Baez from TB.
Julio Santana:
42 IP, 21 ER, 34H, 4.50 ERA, 1.26 WHIP
Very average indeed.
Maybe they see something they can work with. Or Gillick is assembling a group of guys and may the best ones win. Thats what he said he wanted to do with the starters.
By the way...if any of you guys get the Inky today, they have a diagram on the front page of the sports section of the changes at CBP.
LF wall is going back 5 feet (329 to 334) and it is going to be 2.5 feet higher from 8 feet to 10.5 feet.
Monty said that they watched every HR hit to LF the last two years that that about 18-22 of them per year would not go out in the new LF. They are taking out 2 rows of seats, about 194-198 total.
the height increase will make a big difference....seemed like every third homer to left was a line drive that just barely cleared the fence and went into the flower beds
Quote from: bobbyinlondon on November 30, 2005, 05:27:01 AM
"I'm sure I'll be treated the same way everyone else is," Wagner said. "I'll be heckled. The fans there are passionate. They're going to think I ran to the money - which I guess they would have passed up - but I get heckled in every park. It's part of the game."
He's absolutely right. Fans will and should heckle him... but it's not like they would have taken less $$$ to stay.
Yay Julio!
the fact that Bell and Lieberthal are still on the team makes me want to puke.
Gillick was on WIP about an hour ago...
-- He does not believe in FNTCs, and he doesn't seem to be a fan of 10/5s either.
-- He says he doesn't watch press conferences for players leaving his teams unless they're on in the background....said he saw Wagner's PC yesterday.
-- Disagrees with Wagner that they're not trying to win, but he's not going to spend like crazy like the New York teams....he likes to be more creative.
-- He says he got reports from the medical staff that Wagner may have about 2 years left tops. They were willing to go to a 3rd year on a deal, but they were never going to touch a 4th or 5th year.
-- When asked why it's OK to let Wagner walk because of his age but they're looking into closers older than him, he said the guys like Gordon and Hoffman pitch on location and "use their brains, not just their arm". :evil He said when Wagner's velocity falls to the mid-90s as expected, he's pretty much screwed.
-- Reiterated that they're going outside the organization for a closer.
-- No big trades are on the table right now....they're looking at depth and "back of the rotation" starters instead.
-- Says it's up to Charlie to decide how much Bell and Nunez are used.....he's just providing the players.
-- He says Rowand and Nunez will be great for team chemistry, then he added the usual cliches about winning attitude, blue collar, etc...
-- Despite Morganti's protests, he came right out and said we are not signing Bengie Molina. :-D
damnit. the catcher on this team is total garbage. i hate ed wade.
Quote-- When asked why it's OK to let Wagner walk because of his age but they're looking into closers older than him, he said the guys like Gordon and Hoffman pitch on location and "use their brains, not just their arm". evil He said when Wagner's velocity falls to the mid-90s as expected, he's pretty much screwed.
Im happy Gilick said it because that was my fear with Wags. He's all speed and when you take that away he's Terry Adams
They're stuck with Loserthal one more year at least. Oh well.
Santana signing official....1 year, $800K plus incentives (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2242107)
Quote-- Says it's up to Charlie to decide how much Bell and Nunez are used.....he's just providing the players.
Whew. I feel much better now.
:-D
hot stove rumor wip (and probably elsewhere) is reporting:
abreu for jason schmidt
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 30, 2005, 03:58:36 PM
hot stove rumor wip (and probably elsewhere) is reporting:
abreu for jason schmidt
whoa. just now you heard it, did they give the source?
theyve been doing it on their ticker all day...never heard the source till this latest one just a second ago.."howard eskin reports"...maybe it isnt on other outlets
Abreu for Jason Schmidt?
INCONCEIVABLE!
(http://www.movieprop.com/tvandmovie/reviews/princessbridegenuis.jpg)
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 30, 2005, 03:58:36 PM
hot stove rumor wip (and probably elsewhere) is reporting:
abreu for jason schmidt
Hmmmm...nothing about this on PP yet.
Only way I'd trade Bobby is for an ace, and Schmidt is an ace.
The A's are looking for a right handed slugger for Barry Zito.
If the Phils could get Zito to agree to an extension, Burrell would seem to fit the bill.
Just talkin' here, btw. :paranoid
Zito's not an ace. Schmidt > Zito.
i would do burrell zito way before abreu schmidt
in fact i dont want any part of schmidt...hes old(er) and is on the verge of breaking down
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 30, 2005, 04:24:03 PM
i would do burrell zito way before abreu schmidt
in fact i dont want any part of schmidt...hes old(er) and is on the verge of breaking down
He's only 1 year older than Abreu and has been pretty durable throughout his career.
I didn't factor age or players to be given up into it. I just don't want any part of Zito. Seems like the type of guy who would suck if he came to Philly.
BTW, you like feeling your head explode? Try this rumor out:
QuoteHere is the latest on a trade rumor involving the Cardinals
Phillies get: P Barry Zito, catching prospect Kurt Suzuki
Cardinals get: RF Bobby Abreu
A's get: pitching prospect Anthony Reyes, 2B Alfonso Soriano
Rangers get: P Jason Marquis
im not saying i would definitely go for zito...i just DO NOT want schmidt...not for abreu or burrel anyway
where did that rumor come from?
suzuki was at one time a big time prospect but last i heard he had really slipped...barely cracking the a's top ten prospects
me thinks the rumor makes no sense. giants have alou, bonds and winn in the outfield. abreu, alou and bonds cant play cf. so.....unless were getting alou in return too (doubt it with the 7 mil hes owed), this deal is just made up.
What about that blockbuster 4-team deal? Ha. Ha.
Ha.
where'd you get that from?
I found that little gem on philliesphans, so it must be true.
yeah, i just saw it there. i've been going back and forth with a couple of those pompus asses all afternoon.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 30, 2005, 06:10:05 PM
yeah, i just saw it there. i've been going back and forth with a couple of those pompus asses all afternoon.
who are you there? i choose to laugh and ignore many a conversation there.
I promise to never register for that site unless they make it so you can't read without being registered.
unless they make it so you can't read without being registered.
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 30, 2005, 04:21:40 PM
Zito's not an ace. Schmidt > Zito.
Zito isn't an ace? So, he didn't win the Cy Young award in 2002??
I must be thinking of another Barry. Barry White, perhaps? Nope. He's dead. Rick Barry? Nope. Basketball player. Barry Melrose? Nah... hockey farg.
Yep... it's Barry Zito I'm thinking of.
:-D
Quote from: MDS on November 30, 2005, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 30, 2005, 06:10:05 PM
yeah, i just saw it there. i've been going back and forth with a couple of those pompus asses all afternoon.
who are you there? i choose to laugh and ignore many a conversation there.
same name as here, i try to laugh, but sometimes the arrogance chokes me through my computer and i must respond.
BTW: Schmidt will be 33 when the season starts. Zito will be 28.
:P
btw: schmidt blew last year and the rumor is made up
No Bengie Molina? :'( :'(
I didn't want Barry Zito last year and I don't really want him this year either. Even though he rebounded from a horrific start last year to pitch very well something about him I don't like. I think he wouldn't do well in an east coast environment.
Santana? Meh. Depth.
Schimdt? I like him, but he has to show he's healthy.
Even though I like Billy Wags, I also like that Gillick threw some darts back at him. Ed Wade wouldn't say anything at all.
I believe that Philly would literally eat Zito alive. I just don't believe that he would have the mental toughness to succeed in Philadelphia.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 30, 2005, 06:15:32 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 30, 2005, 04:21:40 PM
Zito's not an ace. Schmidt > Zito.
Zito isn't an ace? So, he didn't win the Cy Young award in 2002??
so steve bedrosian was an ace?
i like the move keeping loserthal. the phillies just arent the phillies without the worst defensive/game calling catcher in the mlb :yay
the sils spent $$$ and brought in thome & wags to fill the new ballpark. now that it's no longer new, they're back to business as usual.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 30, 2005, 06:19:38 PM
Quote from: MDS on November 30, 2005, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 30, 2005, 06:10:05 PM
yeah, i just saw it there. i've been going back and forth with a couple of those pompus asses all afternoon.
who are you there? i choose to laugh and ignore many a conversation there.
same name as here, i try to laugh, but sometimes the arrogance chokes me through my computer and i must respond.
You mean like DiscoStu and tools like that? (Saw you and him going back and forth earlier :-D) Loved the baseball talk but couldn't stand the superciliousness of some of their posters. Now I'm just a reader
About the Wagner $$$ comment that he made today, I agree with him. Anyone would take all that guarenteed money. And I'm glad he brought that up, because I don't think he can hide behind "I just want to win" mantra. All he has to admit is that he left for more cash. More power to him. I just had when athletes leave and act all noble for leaving - like winning is the only thought in their mind.
Santana is an OK pickup. Anyone would can get Cormier off this team is fine with me.
I wouldn't trade Abreu for Schmidt. Bobby is any everyday player who can still put up great numbers. Schmidt contributes one every five days and is probably on the tail end of his career. Unless the Phils can get a stud starter and maybe some bullpen help I'd stay put.
Quote from: Wingspan on November 30, 2005, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on November 30, 2005, 06:15:32 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 30, 2005, 04:21:40 PM
Zito's not an ace. Schmidt > Zito.
Zito isn't an ace? So, he didn't win the Cy Young award in 2002??
so steve bedrosian was an ace?
Yes, he was an ace. He was an ace reliever. And you're an acehole.
:=)
Bobby for Manny? (http://www.nypost.com/sports/58697.htm)
6.9M for an apartment?
Ramirez and Burrell in the same outfield?
One of two things will happen:
1. Aaron Rowand will die around August 1.
2. Phil's ERA tops 6.00 because of all the doubles and triples.
i am holding out hope that gillick finds a way to trade every player on the roster. give a whole new team from top to bottom. remove all losers
QuotePhils may make pitch for Rays closer
By RANDY MILLER
phillyBurbs.com
The Phillies are poised to make a run at replacing one All-Star closer with another.
With free agent Billy Wagner leaving for the New York Mets this week, the Phillies are expected to take a stab at prying Cuban right-hander Danys Baez from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.
Meantime, the Phils remain very interested in signing free agent reliever Tom Gordon, preferably as a setup man to Baez or as a backup plan to close games.
To get Baez, who converted 41 of 49 save opportunities and was a first-time All-Star in 2005, the Phillies are willing to part with one or two of their top minor league pitchers. Word is they are considering offering 22-year-old right-hander Gavin Floyd, a 2001 first-round draft pick whose status as elite prospect slipped some this past season.
Baez is young at age 28 and signed for 2006 at a reasonable $4 million, but the risk is he's only a year away from free agency.
Coming off a 95-loss season, the perennially struggling Rays are receptive to dealing Baez and expect several teams to make good offers during next week's winter meetings.
The Phillies have been after Baez for years. They tried to sign the 6-3, 225 pounder after he first escaped Cuba, then later attempted to land him from Tampa Bay in a trade.
Baez has a Philadelphia tie in that he was managed his first two big-league seasons from 2001-2002 by Phillies manager Charlie Manuel. Baez moved from starter to closer in 2003 and converted 96 of 117 save opportunities over the last three seasons, the first two with the Indians and the last two with the Rays.
Gordon and Manuel never have been on the same team, but both own homes in the Winter Haven, Fla., area, and just last week they dined together.
"It was just lunch, but I like Tom," Manuel said. "I always liked him."
Gordon, 38, was a setup reliever the last two seasons for the New York Yankees and prefers to find work as a closer, which he did previously for Boston, the Chicago White Sox and Chicago Cubs. Baltimore is interested after losing closer B.J. Ryan to Toronto, and both New York teams are looking at Gordon for a setup role.
<A TARGET="_top" HREF="http://ad.doubleclick.net/click%3Bh=v5|3341|3|0|%2a|m%3B14167398%3B0-0%3B0%3B10929594%3B4307-300|250%3B13472747|13490643|1%3B%3B%7Esscs%3D%3fhttp://www.delawarevalleyvolvodealers.com/offer.aspx?aditemid=221"><IMG SRC="http://m.2mdn.net/690332/300x250_2006holiday_XC90449.jpg" BORDER=0></A>
Because Wagner and Ryan received lucrative deals, Gordon is expected to begin his asking price at three years and $15 million-to-$18 million after earning $3.75 million in 2005 while going 5-4 with a 2.57 ERA in 79 games. His age, however, could stop teams from offering three years.
With Wagner signing with the Mets for $43 million over four years and free agent Ugueth Urbina recently arrested in Venezuela for attempted murder, the Phils are looking to make sweeping changes to their bullpen this winter.
Free agent relievers Bob Wickman and Trevor Hoffman remain closing options, but the Phillies likely will shy away from hard-throwing right-hander Kyle Farnsworth, who had a breakout second half in Atlanta this season but comes with baggage.
Wickman, 36, has been closing since 1998 and saved a career-high 45 games for Cleveland in 2005.
"Bob was my closer in Cleveland, and he has guts," Manuel said. "He can do the job."
Depending on what the Phillies do before spring training, right-hander Ryan Madson may stay in the bullpen or get his wish and move to the starting rotation after spending his first two big-league seasons as a late-inning reliever.
"We have to wait and see what happens," Manuel said.
On Wednesday, the Phillies found a middle reliever by signing free agent right-hander Julio Santana to a one-year, $800,000 contract.
"Santana did a solid job in Milwaukee's bullpen, and he gives us some more options there," Phillies general manager Pat Gillick said.
Santana, 31, was 3-5 with a 4.50 ERA in 41 relief appearances for Milwaukee in 2005. He pitched in the Phillies' system in 2003 for Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, then turned his career around while pitching in Japan in 2004.
"Since coming back from Japan, Santana has been much better," said Manuel. "He's commanding his pitches now. He's a guy who can pitch in the sixth or seventh inning for us."
Baez would be a great addition.
If he can make it to the all-star game in a wasteland like Tampa Bay, imagine what he can do with a real team playing behind him.
I'd still go after Flash, though. Set-up man or closer, he's still a great pitcher to have on the staff.
the one thing about Baez you have to worry about is the no pressure thing in Tampa. would he pitch differently on a team with playoff expectations? possibly, but it's worth a shot.
Well, you can never tell how someone is going to handle the strain of playing in a major market like Philly.
I suppose you'd have to trust that his talent would rule the day.
:-\
manny said he doesnt want to come here. why do people make up stupid rumors. the least they could say is something this is possible.
baez is not worth floyd. the phillies have invested too much time and money into this kid to see him go somewhere else for a middle of the run closer. however, floyd was wades move. not gillicks. he probably doesnt care as much about them.
S>A>S proves he's even more of an ignorant imbecile when it comes to the Phillies than when he's talking about the Sixers:
QuotePosted on Thu, Dec. 01, 2005
Stephen A. Smith | Phillies again lead league in ineptitude
By Stephen A. Smith
Inquirer Columnist
Here's all anyone in Philadelphia needs to know: After 429 home runs were hit at Citizens Bank Park over the last two seasons, the Phillies, looking to provide some much-needed assistance for their pitching staff, did not make sure they re-signed Billy Wagner. Instead, they're changing the dimensions in left field.
The fence will be moved back 5 feet. It will be raised from 8 feet to 101/2 feet. The only thing standing in the team's way is an approval from Major League Baseball.
So why isn't anyone laughing?
Probably because the Phillies regressed from comical to sad quite a long time ago.
Just to get matters straight: To stop opponents from smacking homers all over South Philadelphia, the Phillies are depending on construction workers instead of pitchers. At the moment, I'm wondering why they elected to stop there. Why not just go out and buy some binoculars for everybody?
To say the Phillies are a perpetually disheartening bunch doesn't begin to describe this organization. Even with general manager Pat Gillick in the mix - clearly astute at what he's doing - the organization's mere presence is enough to invoke a state of depression.
Time and again, the Phils are a day late and a dollar short. Time and again, they leave you exasperated, wondering what they're doing, perplexed over what they're thinking and feeling. You find it almost impossible to care any longer.
That's why no one should be surprised or take issue with Wagner's piercing words upon his arrival at Shea Stadium to don a New York Mets uniform on Tuesday afternoon, fresh off signing a four-year, $43 million deal.
"There's a difference between winning and being competitive," Wagner said, explaining the malady that plagues these Phillies. "In the end, I thought [the Phillies] were more interested in being competitive than winning."
Stop if you're about to applaud and say "Amen."
Wagner was absolutely correct in his assessment. And contrary to popular belief, it isn't just because of monetary concerns.
Gillick was on point when he intimated that five-year deals don't hold up. Wagner, 34, probably won't be as effective as he was with his 38 saves last season. But the issue here is Philadelphia's approach, not the veracity of Gillick's words.
The Phillies, committing their latest exercise in stupidity, put themselves behind the proverbial eight-ball just days after the Oct. 10 firing of GM Ed Wade when team president David Montgomery attempted to negotiate with Wagner - before Gillick was even hired.
Now, mind you, Montgomery did this one year after the Phillies were in position to re-sign Wagner at less than half the price he agreed to with the Mets on Monday. A closer known for throwing 100-m.p.h. fastballs, blessed with a nasty slider as well, could have been had for $20 million.
The Phillies didn't do it. Then Montgomery had the nerve to actually sit in front of Wagner and expect him to take anything he had to say seriously.
I'd love to imitate Forrest Gump by saying, "Stupid is as stupid does." Or mention that if the Phillies had been aggressive in signing Wagner last season, they would not have been in this situation. But what would be the point?
By now, it has become common practice with this bunch, along with the results.
Gillick goes out and pulls off a trade that sends Jim Thome to Chicago for centerfielder Aaron Rowand. He also gets a lefthanded pitcher in the process, and he nabs utility infielder Abraham Nuñez for $3.35 million over two years, sparing us from having to watch David Bell bat against righthanded pitching.
Yet, still, the Phillies manage to steal his thunder with the same ineptitude that has sullied their image for years.
They're not about winning, just claiming they tried. The Phillies are more about lip service than anything else, and Wagner called them out on it.
They may have a quality general manager now. They might even win because of him. But make no mistake, it will be in spite of the Phillies, who continually fail to live up to supposed lofty expectations.
"I like the position this team is in right now," Nunez told reporters after he signed. "I think [the Phillies] are going to be in the race. I just want to help this team win ball games. It's a good fit for me because I can help the team in many different ways. What's going on here is a great thing."
The stadium workers are probably saying the same thing.
Especially if there's some overtime involved in raising that fence.
No one but the Mets were going to give Wagner a four year deal with an option for a fifth.
NO ONE.
Someone should really call that icehole on his bullshtein columns once and for all.
I called SAS on his baseball drivel 2-3 years ago when he was talking about how the Phillies have NO catchers to back up Lieberthal and they'd have to go find a backup. That they were stupid and inept for going into a season without a backup catcher.
Um. He forgot about Todd Pratt and I called him on it.
He said he didn't follow baseball and (and I am not paraphrasing here) "a friend of his gave him that information."
I remember posting about it on the board when it happened. Really, REALLY pathetic.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 01, 2005, 10:32:04 AM
I called SAS on his baseball drivel 2-3 years ago when he was talking about how the Phillies have NO catchers to back up Lieberthal and they'd have to go find a backup. That they were stupid and inept for going into a season without a backup catcher.
Um. He forgot about Todd Pratt and I called him on it.
He said he didn't follow baseball and (and I am not paraphrasing here) "a friend of his gave him that information."
I remember posting about it on the board when it happened. Really, REALLY pathetic.
wow, that's embarassing for a columnist to say that. but for SAS, it's not even his most embarassing moment.
remember the playoffs last year, when the Jets beat the Chargers. SAS was ripping Marty Schottenheimer (sp?) because he did have his kicker kick the potential game winning FG on 3rd down. his explanation for that, "if you miss on 3rd down, you get to try again of 4th down"
just, wow.
QuoteManny-for-Abreu 'highly unlikely'
Dec 1 - ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports that a swap of Bobby Abreu for Manny Ramirez is "highly unlikely," according to a baseball official who has spoken with both clubs.
The deal was proposed by the Red Sox but quickly shot down, the official said, for several reasons. The primary reason is that the Phillies have been telling teams they are only interested in trading Abreu for top-of-the-rotation starting pitching. The second is that there is a major money imbalance. Ramirez has $57 million coming over the next three years. Abreu has two years, $30 million left on his deal. Both players can veto any trades.
The only way this trade could happen, then, is if the Red Sox were interested in trading a starting pitcher along with Ramirez, AND evening out all the money.
Meanwhile, Ramirez officially has put his $6.9 million condominium in Boston on the market, the Boston Globe reports. Ramirez wants to be traded, and his wish is to play for the Angels or the Mariners, the Boston Herald reports.
Teammate David Ortiz thinks Ramirez won't be in left field for the Red Sox come Opening Day. "Manny is not returning to Boston," Ortiz said recently. "Manny lives a difficult situation that only he and his family know about, and he does not want to play there."
Burrell for Manny, Clement, and $20 mill. Get it done!
Does it really matter what the Phils do anymore, cuz they sure as hell aren't gonna challenge the Braves for the division. You might as well just hope for 2006 NFL training camp...especially if you are worried about some dumb article written by Screamin Stephen.
Bye Bye Pratt
Press Release (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20051201&content_id=1274669&vkey=pr_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi)
QuoteCatcher Sal Fasano has agreed to a contract with the Phillies, Assistant General Manager Ruben Amaro, Jr. announced this afternoon. He signed a one-year deal for $425,000 plus performance bonuses.
"Fasano has always been a quality receiver with a lot of energy," said Amaro. "He will be a good complement to Mike Lieberthal. :boo He's a winning player which is the kind of character we are trying to bring to our big club."
Fasano, a free agent, played the majority of the 2005 season with the Baltimore Orioles after beginning the season at triple-A Ottawa. A career back-up catcher, he appeared in more major league games with the Orioles last year (64) than he had in any season since a career-best 74 in 1998. He also hit a career-best 11 home runs last year in just 160 at-bats.
The 35-year-old began his career in 1993 with the Kansas City Royals organization. He has played in the majors in parts of eight seasons with the Royals (1996-99, 2001), Oakland Athletics (2000-01), Colorado Rockies (2001), Anaheim Angels (2002) and Orioles (2005). He did not play professionally in 2003.
Fasano, a Chicago native, has a career .988 fielding percentage at catcher and has caught 31 percent of runners attempting to steal (53-173) in his career.
With the addition of Fasano, the Phillies' 40-man winter roster stands at 39 players
i love me sum fassano
Sal Fasano = Championship
according to jayson stark, phils are close to signing tom gordon. probably 3 years 18 mil.
NL East blurb from ESPN.com's Jayson StarkQuotePhiladelphia Phillies
First, the good news: Other clubs have been amazed by what a good deal Gillick was able to make for Thome -- without even having to take him to spring training to prove he's healthy.
"To not even pay half of Thome's money [$22 million of his $46 million], to get a good player like [Aaron] Rowand and to get two good left-handed prospects [Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Haigwood], I don't blame Pat for not hesitating in taking that deal," an official of one AL team said. "He didn't call the Twins back. He didn't call any other teams back. He had to do this deal before [White Sox GM] Kenny Williams changed his mind. I still can't believe Kenny threw in those two left-handers. He must have had blinders on with Thome."
OK, but now the bad news: The Phillies lost more than just two big names with the exits of Thome and Wagner. They lost two guys who, only a couple of years ago, were throwing electric bolts into their fan base unlike any players who have passed through Philadelphia since Leonard K. Dykstra and Darren Daulton.
So although the Phillies might have emerged with much more financial flexibility than they'd have had if they had tied up $24 million in Thome and Wagner, and though Gillick is inventive enough to fill many a hole, how do they replace the buzz, the magnetism of the players they've lost?
Thome's replacement, Ryan Howard, might bring that aura. But Wagner, in almost every way, is irreplaceable.
"They made a serious misjudgment not being more aggressive in signing Wagner before he hit the market," one front-office man said. "If [team president] Dave Montgomery didn't let them go three years on him in the summer, he was making a big, big mistake. If Billy Wagner was really saying, 'I'll sign for three years and $24 million,' their answer should have been, 'Where do we sign?'"
is it any surprise monty and wade farged that one up?
Bullshtein. No way did Wagner say he'd sign for 3 years & 24 million.
:-D
No farging way. Where do these nonsensical rumors start anyway?
Quote from: MDS on December 01, 2005, 06:37:31 PM
according to jayson stark, phils are close to signing tom gordon. probably 3 years 18 mil.
So, they won't sign a 34-year-old to a 4-year deal, but they'll sign a 38-year-old to a 3-year deal. w0ot.
As for Wagner, he did CLAIM that he would have signed for 3/$24m in the summer, but the Phillies are claiming that as soon as they offered it, he upped his demands to 3/$27m. Then, they offered that, and he upped them again. He wanted to be a free agent all along. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
Either way, you can't blame Gillick for losing Wagner. You can blame Monty/Wade/Amaro/Wagner/Stringfellow...
...but not Gillick.
nobody blames gillick, well except for mishandling of the catcher situation. loserthal=teh suck
It's not as if Bengie Molina or Ramon Hernandez are the hard-core shtein, though.
BTW, I forgot... Gordon also has location, and Wagner only has velocity. That's why Gordon will still be sittin' 'em down in the top of the 9th at CBP at the ripe age of 41. HA!
Quote from: MDS on December 01, 2005, 09:17:58 PM
nobody blames gillick, well except for mishandling of the catcher situation. loserthal=teh suck
Didn't have a choice with Lieberthal. The option was vested. Who would take him at 7 or 8 or whatever millions the year is for?
well also, gordon comes cheaper than wagner. and there was no way the phillies were matching a deal like wagner got. gordon will probably still be effective at 41, just not worth 6 million. however, gillick is desperate to get a closer at this point. in fact, these guys left are the only decent relievers on the market. so even if gillick went into the season with madson or tejeda as the closer, he would need to get a proven arm somewhere in there. gordon, hoffman and wickman are the only ones left. if you get one of those guys, you might as well give them the closers job. and, you have to overpay.
Quote from: MDS on December 01, 2005, 09:22:53 PM
and, you have to overpay.
Yeah, no one's really going to ignore that the record contract for a closer was eclipsed twice in the last couple weeks.
Oh well. I still think we need another good
starting pitcher, somehow, and also another quality reliever.
thats why i dont think we need to get one of those guys. let the other teams dish out 6 and 8 mil for 40 year old relievers. we can trade for a middle of the run capable reliever (like another aaron fultz) to get some consistancy in the pen. give madson and tejeda and maybe even padilla a shot to win the job. spend the time and money on starting pitching, like getting matt morris. adding morris would give the phillies 4 quality starters, and one open spot (i presume its time gavin floyd, despite is awful year last year, got a shot) for battle.
Cant blame Gillick for Lieberdouche... but I can blame Monty for Lieberdouche. farg you Monty.
Wagner is a gigantic lying bag of puss.
I hope he dies bloody and screaming.
:)
I created a sexy p-chop of Gordon in a retro Phillies jersey, but my FTP server is down. Drat!
oh man that would have been super cool!
done deal. 3 years, between 18-21 mil for thomas gordon. meh.
Wagner sucks/Gordon Rulez! (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2244420)
3 Years/$18M per ESPN...
:-\
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 01, 2005, 09:41:12 PM
I created a sexy p-chop of Gordon in a retro Phillies jersey, but my FTP server is down. Drat!
Pork Chop?
:o
While I have some reservations about signing Gordon to the 3/18 deal, the fact of the matter was that is market value. Ryan's and Wagner's deals drove the closers market sky high, boys. And the Spanks gave Farnsworth 3/17 to be a set-up guy. In baseball age doesn't really play a lot in negotiations. Look no further than people still willing to sign Jamie Moyer, Kenny Rogers are other senior citizens to big money deals.
Gordon still has some nice heat and his hook is very nice.
Sal Fasano? The only thing I can say about him is he is a very good defensive catcher. I watched several O's games last year when he was catching and he has a nice glove.
Gillick isn't done. I believe we'll see a SP, another bench player and 2 more relievers. Winter meetings will heat up the hot stove.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 02, 2005, 06:52:49 AM
While I have some reservations about signing Gordon to the 3/18 deal, the fact of the matter was that is market value. Ryan's and Wagner's deals drove the closers market sky high, boys. And the Spanks gave Farnsworth 3/17 to be a set-up guy. In baseball age doesn't really play a lot in negotiations. Look no further than people still willing to sign Jamie Moyer, Kenny Rogers are other senior citizens to big money deals.
Gordon still has some nice heat and his hook is very nice.
Sal Fasano? The only thing I can say about him is he is a very good defensive catcher. I watched several O's games last year when he was catching and he has a nice glove.
Gillick isn't done. I believe we'll see a SP, another bench player and 2 more relievers. Winter meetings will heat up the hot stove.
Freak---have the Yankees positively signed Farnsworth? I've been reading that they are now not the only team involved.
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 01, 2005, 09:14:25 PM
Quote from: MDS on December 01, 2005, 06:37:31 PM
according to jayson stark, phils are close to signing tom gordon. probably 3 years 18 mil.
So, they won't sign a 34-year-old to a 4-year deal, but they'll sign a 38-year-old to a 3-year deal. w0ot.
As for Wagner, he did CLAIM that he would have signed for 3/$24m in the summer, but the Phillies are claiming that as soon as they offered it, he upped his demands to 3/$27m. Then, they offered that, and he upped them again. He wanted to be a free agent all along. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
Either way, you can't blame Gillick for losing Wagner. You can blame Monty/Wade/Amaro/Wagner/Stringfellow...
...but not Gillick.
I seem to remember reading that first, Wagner DIDN'T WANT TO TALK contract with the Phils, because he said it would have been a distraction. Then, just AFTER the All-Star break, he was making noise about why didn't they talk to him? In mid-August, it was written that they had previously upped their offer from 2 years, 24M to the 3 year 24M deal, then he revised his needs to 27M. The Phils waited until October to offer him the 3 year 27M deal, then he upped it to 30M. That's when I realized he never wanted to saty in Philly. How about him telling everyone who would listen that "the money is not going to be important. It's where I'm going to be living with my family". Then, in the Mets news conference, he utters things like, "the NTC was the big decider" and "it was the Mets' offer to lose all along". When he said those things, it was plain to see what was on his mind. I'll be laughing my gonads off if the Phils finish with a playoff spot ahead of the Mets.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 02, 2005, 06:52:49 AM
Winter meetings will heat up the hot stove.
Yay for trite ESPN lingo!
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 02, 2005, 08:06:48 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 02, 2005, 06:52:49 AM
Winter meetings will heat up the hot stove.
Yay for trite ESPN lingo!
c'mon, he's got a motor that doesn't stop, he's always giving 110%
gordon is going to be a nightmare of a closer...at this point in his career he cannot handle that
imo he is being brought in as a multi use late inning reliever...they dont want him to be the closer but he will be if all else fails...it wouldnt surprise me to see someone else have the job out of camp...and if not...definitely by the end of the year
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 02, 2005, 08:27:05 AM
gordon is going to be a nightmare of a closer...at this point in his career he cannot handle that
imo he is being brought in as a multi use late inning reliever...they dont want him to be the closer but he will be if all else fails...it wouldnt surprise me to see someone else have the job out of camp...and if not...definitely by the end of the year
First, I hope you're wrong and I think you are, actually.
Gordon pitched extremely well in the biggest pressure cooker in professional sports, so it's not as if the strain of pitching the ninth inning for the Phillies will make much difference to him.
The guy still has great stuff. By all accounts, he's healthy and ready to go.
I honestly can't see a downside to his signing unless he breaks down physically. Of course, any pitcher at any time is susceptible to breaking down, so...
i like him overall...i think he would be a fantastic piece to rebuiding the bullpen...i just question him as a closer...he was way less than a strikeout per inning last year...not exactly closer stuff...
i suppose he could be another todd jones...but that would be really rare
well see
well if Gordon does end up sucking his contract is not a back breaker, which I find to be a big positive on a team that pays Lieberdouche 7 million +.
Gordon's contract is, however, quite large for a non-closer. I think he definitely is the go-to guy for the next couple of years at minimum. No one else on the roster is MORE suited for closing, even if Gordon isn't perfect.
Goodbye "Enter Sandman".
Hello to THIS (http://members.aol.com/t6fannings/flash.mid)!
130 press conference will be comcast
amaro said abreu isnt going anywhere (unless they get an ace). duh.
tom gordon as closer :-D
you guys are gonna absolutely love him! :-D
Ehhh...I wanted Gordon but more as a setup man for Wagner. So we refuse to give a 34 year old pitcher a 4 year deal but will give a 38 year old pitcher a 3 year deal? That makes perfect sense :boom
We've gotten worse. :boo
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 01, 2005, 09:14:25 PM
Quote from: MDS on December 01, 2005, 06:37:31 PM
according to jayson stark, phils are close to signing tom gordon. probably 3 years 18 mil.
So, they won't sign a 34-year-old to a 4-year deal, but they'll sign a 38-year-old to a 3-year deal. w0ot.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on December 02, 2005, 03:09:21 PM
Ehhh...I wanted Gordon but more as a setup man for Wagner. So we refuse to give a 34 year old pitcher a 4 year deal but will give a 38 year old pitcher a 3 year deal? That makes perfect sense :boom
Echo!
Echo!Echo!Echo!Echo!Echo!Echo!Echo!Echo!
So, they won't sign a 34-year-old to a 4-year deal, but they'll sign a 38-year-old to a 3-year deal
do you guys not understand that the wagner contract is for way more dollars..both per year and overall...this has nothing to do with the length of the deals
i did come up with another positive on gordon tho...hes terrible in the playoffs but thats a plus since with the phils hell never have to pitch in them
2006 = $4.5M
2007 = $7M
2008 = $5.5M
2009 = $4.5M option or $1M buyout
They also apparently released Pedro Liriano and Franklin Perez, though the source KFFL supposedly got it from doesn't say anything about it.... ???
Edit: AP confirmed it
Quote from: SD_Eagle on December 02, 2005, 03:09:21 PM
Ehhh...I wanted Gordon but more as a setup man for Wagner. So we refuse to give a 34 year old pitcher a 4 year deal but will give a 38 year old pitcher a 3 year deal? That makes perfect sense :boom
We've gotten worse. :boo
4 years = $43M
3 years = $18M
Yes they are close in terms of length, but in no way are they close in cash. Everyone knows I wanted Wags back, but not at that money.
And they had to give Tom Gordon a 3 year deal because of what Wags and Ryan got. Trevor Hoffman, Bob Wickman and all of the others out there will likely get 3 years too.
The way I look at it is...we had to get someone.
I would still go after Baez too.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 02, 2005, 08:47:09 PM
The way I look at it is...we had to get someone.
They went the cheap route -- again. We free'd up enough cash when we traded Thome to re-sign Wagner. Now we've got an older, unproven relief pitcher at a lesser price. Great. From what Gillick's saying we're not going to sign anyone else, so we've cut a ton of payroll and have gotten worse doing so.
:boo
you wanted to match 4 years 43 mil?
Quote from: MDS on December 02, 2005, 10:39:16 PM
you wanted to match 4 years 43 mil?
I wasn't in favor of it at first, but seeing what the markets dictating for closers why not? Wagner will be Gordon's age once the deals up. He's one of the top 3 closers in the game. Where else is that money going to be spent? *Nowhere*
next year towards a catcher and third basemen. more starting pitching.
Wah! Why didn't "we" ::) sign Wagner for 4/43?? Wah! :'(
Guys... you're forgetting one small detail: He never intended to re-sign with the Phillies!
If he had any intention of re-signing in Philly, he would have done so in the summer instead of jerking them off repeatedly.
Jesus... :-D
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on December 03, 2005, 04:05:05 AM
Wah! Why didn't "we" ::) sign Wagner for 4/43?? Wah! :'(
Guys... you're forgetting one small detail: He never intended to re-sign with the Phillies!
If he had any intention of re-signing in Philly, he would have done so in the summer instead of jerking them off repeatedly.
Jesus... :-D
Exactly.
June: "I don't want to talk about my contract--it'll be a distraction to the team".
July: "Well, I hope they make me an offer soon."
August: The Phils offered him a 2 year deal, with a 3rd year option at 24M--HE WANTS 3 YEARS GUARANTEED AND A FULL NTC.
Sept: The Phils finally offer him a 3 year deal, but now instead of 24M, he wants 27M.
Oct: The Phils offer him what he wants, except now his price is at 30M.
Gillick is hired, then goes to meet Wagner fact to face. Wagner then tells the press, "I'm excited with the plans they have for the team."
When he signs for the Mets, then he comes out with: "They're not interested in winning, just competing." or, "The NTC is the thing that swung this in the Mets' favor." or "This was the Mets' deal to lose".
I have no problem with a player going for money. But, you should have enough guts to say, "I'm going to the team that offers me the most." End of story. And to tell the press that you're excited about the Phillies' plans, especially since you indicated that you're meeting with Gillick was very positive, and then turn around and trash him when you sign with a new team--well, I just think that's classless--as is telling the press money isn't going to be the thing that swings the deal--it's more about living where you're comfortable--and then going for the money anyway.
That's like Reggie White saying he wanted to play for a contender, then turning down deals from two teams that won the next two SBs to sign with a GB team that wasn't even a contender yet, because they made you the highest paid defensive player in the league. If you're going for the money--SAY IT!
Quote from: MDS on December 03, 2005, 12:29:28 AM
next year towards a catcher and third basemen. more starting pitching.
We'll have free'd up plenty of money when rid ourselves of Lieby and Bells deal.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on December 03, 2005, 04:05:05 AM
Wah! Why didn't "we" ::) sign Wagner for 4/43?? Wah! :'(
Guys... you're forgetting one small detail: He never intended to re-sign with the Phillies!
How do you know he never intended to re-sign with the Phils? He played the game, who cares how he went about it? Was our reported deal anywhere even close to the one the Mets gave him? Nope.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on December 03, 2005, 04:05:05 AM
If he had any intention of re-signing in Philly, he would have done so in the summer instead of jerking them off repeatedly.
Jesus... :-D
What? Oooooh, you mean when they were insulting him with their 3 year $24 million deal or whatever it was? [4 years $43 million hindsight later] Yeah he was real stupid to stand his ground and test free agency :-D
With the current market for relief pitchers a guy as dominant as him got fair value. Bottom line is: We're now worse than we were last season.
Quote from: bobbyinlondon on December 03, 2005, 04:34:06 AM
I have no problem with a player going for money. But, you should have enough guts to say, "I'm going to the team that offers me the most." End of story. And to tell the press that you're excited about the Phillies' plans, especially since you indicated that you're meeting with Gillick was very positive, and then turn around and trash him when you sign with a new team--well, I just think that's classless--as is telling the press money isn't going to be the thing that swings the deal--it's more about living where you're comfortable--and then going for the money anyway.
That's like Reggie White saying he wanted to play for a contender, then turning down deals from two teams that won the next two SBs to sign with a GB team that wasn't even a contender yet, because they made you the highest paid defensive player in the league. If you're going for the money--SAY IT!
Wagner played the game - sorry if you don't like the way he played it - but guess what? He got a fair deal. Regardless of if his intentions were to sell to the highest bidder or go to a team where he thought he had the best chance of winning the World Series, he did what he had to to get the type of deal he wanted. The way professional sports works, would it have made good business sense for Billy Wags to come right out and say: "I could care less about winning or losing, show me the money"? Probably not.
the sils are back to being cheap...they spent some $$$ for a couple years to drive up interest because of the new ballpark but now they're back to their old tricks.
they lost their top 2 marquee players & replaced them with less talented (and cheaper) players.
Thome is not more talented than Ryan Howard. More proven? Yes. More talented or likely to be more productive? No.
As for Wagner, he's a 34-year-old power pitcher. As soon as he loses 3 or 4 MPH on his fastball, he's through.
I wanted Wagner back, but not for $43 million.
Quote from: mhunt on December 03, 2005, 10:36:46 AM
the sils are back to being cheap...they spent some $$$ for a couple years to drive up interest because of the new ballpark but now they're back to their old tricks.
they lost their top 2 marquee players & replaced them with less talented (and cheaper) players.
I'm fine with the Thome trade, in fact, I thought Gillick made a great deal getting a solid CF, 2 prospects, and cut more cash than I thought he would.
But for the most part you're right. I can't see how our fans aren't a little more upset that Wagner got a fair deal and we replaced him with Gordon.
$11M for a closer is crazy....especially one that's in his mid-30s, had groin and shoulder problems recently and has nothing else except "here...I'm going to throw it really hard. Try to hit it." I'm not excited about having Gordon, but he makes less than half (almost 1/3 depending on incentives) of Wagner's deal and gives the team flexibility to do other things....unlike a certain basketball team in this town that is stuck
i hate the Phillies front office and have no problem with the Thome trade or not re-signing Wagner. Now they still need to get rid of Lieberdouche and Bell and trade Burrell.
Bell switched to #25 :-\
Nunez gets #3
Fasano takes Wagner's #13
Santana gets #48
Ruiz switched to #51
Bourn gets #76
Hernandez gets #77
Mathieson gets #78
Haigwood gets #79
bell=thome
Gordon will wear #45 in honor of Tug McGraw.
Quote"This is truly an honor for me to wear his number on the field and to be in the bullpen with this team in this organization," Gordon said. "I've never met Tug McGraw. I just always have one story that my dad said to me once. This is years ago. I couldn't have been 9 or 10 years old. He said, 'Son, that's Tug McGraw pitching.' I was like, 'Dad, his name is Tug?' I thought that was kind of funny that his name was Tug.
"I guess it is funny because my name is Flash now. ... Just getting an opportunity to wear his jersey and his number where he really stood out as a pitcher and a reliever, it's an honor."
Ah damn, we can't hate the guy now... :)
Any talk of having the Tuggers # retired?
no, phils only do it for hall of fame type players
Quote from: MDS on December 03, 2005, 09:19:23 PM
no, phils only do it for hall of fame type players
I think they'd make an exception for Tug, he was a local celebrity forever and footage of him getting the last out in the WS is the highlight of the franchise.
so should the eagles do it for chad lewis and his tds in the nfccg?
Quote from: MDS on December 03, 2005, 09:29:18 PM
so should the eagles do it for chad lewis and his tds in the nfccg?
If Chad Lewis had caught the game winning TD in the SuperBowl then went on to become a local news celebrity then I'd consider. Two totally different circumstances.
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 03, 2005, 06:44:30 PM
Bell switched to #25 :-\
Nunez gets #3
Fasano takes Wagner's #13
Santana gets #48
Ruiz switched to #51
Bourn gets #76
Hernandez gets #77
Mathieson gets #78
Haigwood gets #79
i was just thinking if i didnt find out those guys uniform numbers, i was going to go balistic.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on December 03, 2005, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: MDS on December 03, 2005, 09:29:18 PM
so should the eagles do it for chad lewis and his tds in the nfccg?
If Chad Lewis had caught the game winning TD in the SuperBowl then went on to become a local news celebrity then I'd consider. Two totally different circumstances.
local celebrity shouldnt factor in. play on the field is all that matters. tug was good, but not great. its pretty sad that the phillies have had 6 "great" players in over 120 years of baseball.
Quote from: MDS on December 03, 2005, 10:09:50 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on December 03, 2005, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: MDS on December 03, 2005, 09:29:18 PM
so should the eagles do it for chad lewis and his tds in the nfccg?
If Chad Lewis had caught the game winning TD in the SuperBowl then went on to become a local news celebrity then I'd consider. Two totally different circumstances.
local celebrity shouldnt factor in. play on the field is all that matters. tug was good, but not great. its pretty sad that the phillies have had 6 "great" players in over 120 years of baseball.
You're entitled to your opinion, but Milauwkee retired Uekers #50 (had next to nothing to do with his play on the field because he was very mediocre at best) so I don't see why retiring the Tuggers #45 is that big a deal.
i dont care if they do it. frankley, im still miffed at how jose mesa's #49 is not retired
#24 will be retired very soon.
I would've retired #45 too. But I also like that Gordon is wearing it to honor him. Cool move.
And the fact that Bell switched to #25 makes me feel much better about him on this team. He just needed a number change...thats all. Now he'll be blasting HRs and making highlight reel plays all year at 3rd.
Milwaukee retired Mr. Belvedere's boss' number because they have no one other than Robin Yount and Paul Molitor to honor in Beer Town.
As for the Billy Wags discussion....like I said before, I wanted him back. But I didn't want him back at $43M for 4 years and a 5th option year. Like Ed said, if they invested that much and he does blow out a rotator cuff in year 2, then they're effed for the final 2 years.
Gordon, Farnsworth, Baez, Wickman, Hoffman and any other closer not names BJ Ryan and/or Billy Wagner would be considered going on the cheap.
ricardo rincon is probably gonna be a free agent, or maybe he is already. either way....i know they had some interest in this guy before (almost had him), so heres the chance. Get him.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 04, 2005, 02:13:54 AM
Milwaukee retired Mr. Belvedere's boss' number because they have no one other than Robin Yount and Paul Molitor to honor in Beer Town.
What about Hank Aaron?
:paranoid
Quote from: MDS on December 03, 2005, 09:19:23 PM
no, phils only do it for hall of fame type players
For what it's worth, Ashburn's number was retired long before he was inducted. I know, he should have been long before he was.
Another trade rumor to ponder: revisiting the Abreu-to-Toronto-for-Vernon-Wells rumor, but adding LHP Gustavo Chacin to it...
No thanks.
no
I'd do it.
I like Abreu, but I also like Wells and Chacin.
More to the latest rumor:
Abreu + minor leaguer TBNL
for
Wells, Chacin and RHP Vince Perkins
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on December 04, 2005, 08:15:25 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 04, 2005, 02:13:54 AM
Milwaukee retired Mr. Belvedere's boss' number because they have no one other than Robin Yount and Paul Molitor to honor in Beer Town.
What about Hank Aaron?
:paranoid
They all played in Milwaukee but 2 different franchises. The Brewers didn't retire Aaron's # did they?
I think the Brewers did retire his number...but I think of him as an Atlanta Brave. I don't know how long he was in Milwaukee before they left to ATL thats why I didn't mention him.
Ed, whats the word on that Perkins dude? A throw in type guy or is he any good?
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 05, 2005, 08:41:19 PM
I think the Brewers did retire his number...but I think of him as an Atlanta Brave. I don't know how long he was in Milwaukee before they left to ATL thats why I didn't mention him.
Ed, whats the word on that Perkins dude? A throw in type guy or is he any good?
Aaron played for the Milwaukee Braves for 12 seasons (1954-1965), for the Atlanta Braves for 9 seasons (1966-1974) and for the Milwaukee Brewers for 2 (1975-1976).
Quote from: Geowhizzer on December 05, 2005, 08:58:39 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 05, 2005, 08:41:19 PM
I think the Brewers did retire his number...but I think of him as an Atlanta Brave. I don't know how long he was in Milwaukee before they left to ATL thats why I didn't mention him.
Ed, whats the word on that Perkins dude? A throw in type guy or is he any good?
Aaron played for the Milwaukee Braves for 12 seasons (1954-1965), for the Atlanta Braves for 9 seasons (1966-1974) and for the Milwaukee Brewers for 2 (1975-1976).
I knew he finished his career with the Brewers but I wasn't aware that they retired his #. I guess it kind of makes sense if they did though simply for the fact that he spent well over half of his career playing for Milwaukee.
Just checked: Brewers did retire Aaron's number. (http://www.all-baseball.com/ref/retired.html)
QuotePhils, Cubs talk Abreu-for-Prior swap
By MARCUS HAYES
hayesm@phillynews.com
DALLAS - Pat Gillick and Charlie Manuel want pitching for their team. They're not bashful about asking for it.
According to National League sources at the winter meetings here, the Cubs asked the Phillies yesterday what it would take to pry away two-time All-Star rightfielder, Gold Glove winner and reigning Home Run Derby champion Bobby Abreu.
The answer: Mark Prior.
The Cubs didn't say yes.
But they didn't say no, either; at least, they haven't so far.
The Cubs did say they would not consider dealing Carlos Zambrano, who is taking his turn atop their pecking order of promising young pitchers, following Kerry Wood and Prior, who is 25.
The session with the Cubs was one of several meetings conducted by Gillick, the Phillies' new general manager, and his brain trust, including Manuel. Gillick doesn't comment on specific ongoing negotiations, though he has said he thinks the Phillies need a top-of-the-line starter.
Yesterday, he said he and his entourage picked up with several teams where they left off during the GM meetings a month ago in Palm Springs, Calif.
"We're trying to get a feel for where people are now," Gillick explained on a relatively quiet first day of the meetings. That said, when the Phillies talk to teams now, they're getting down to business.
"We're past the generalities stage," Gillick said.
Making a deal such as Abreu-for-Prior would require more than just buying airplane tickets for the principals.
Abreu, 31, would have to waive his full no-trade clause, and, as of yesterday, the Phillies have not approached Abreu's camp about that, sources said. Of course, that doesn't preclude the Phillies from shopping first and asking later.
Also, the Phillies owe Abreu $31 million for the next two seasons. Prior, who has spent part of each of his three full seasons on the disabled list, has 1 year worth $3.1 million left on his contract, after which he is arbitration-eligible.
Prior, a righthander, is 41-23 with a 3.24 earned run average since hitting the big leagues in 2002. He finished third in Cy Young Award voting in 2003, his first full season. In his last 10 starts last season, Prior was 4-3, 3.73, with 76 strikeouts in 60 1/3 innings. Eight of those starts were quality starts, and none was appreciably awful.
If the Prior deal doesn't work out, the Phillies might try one that includes Abreu and Cubs workman starter Jerome Williams - but with serious sweeteners that could include lefty prospect Rich Hill, 25. Hill's status could be shifting from untouchable to movable. He went 11-4 with a 3.31 ERA and 194 strikeouts in 130 2/3 minor league innings last season, though he was 0-2 with a 9.13 ERA in 10 big-league appearances.
If nothing works out with the Cubs, the Phils could look elsewhere to trade for starting pitching, perhaps moving outfielder Jason Michaels to Pittsburgh for Mark Redman. Reportedly, interested parties include the Red Sox, who are willing to part with Matt Clement, and the Astros might deal Brandon Backe and setup man Chad Qualls.
While they're here, the Phillies - eager to include a lefty starter in their rotation - can at least ask the fire-selling Marlins if they will change their mind about trading Dontrelle Willis for prospects; inquire if the Orioles' Erik Bedard is truly unattainable for Abreu; and find out if the Oakland A's Barry Zito is available to them at all.
This rotation improvement is necessary mainly because enigmatic talent Vicente Padilla has not become a top-of-the-rotation starter. After an organizational meeting in October, the Phillies determined they would offer Padilla arbitration by Dec. 20. However, since Gillick came aboard last month, that evaluation has changed.
"It's too early to tell," Gillick said. "We've had a lot of discussions about Padilla."
Padilla, 28, who made $3.2 million last season, would likely command about $4 million in 2006, despite a second consecutive injury-marred campaign in which he was an inconsistent 9-12 with a 4.71 ERA. If the Phils retain him, he could be moved to the bullpen to compete for the setup job.
That job also could fall to Ryan Madson.
Manuel also said Madson would have a chance to join the starting rotation if the Phillies acquire significant bullpen help and don't flesh out their rotation.
For what it's worth, Manuel also said he'd consider Gavin Floyd for the back end of the rotation if Floyd earns it in spring training.
So, after Day 1 of baseball's annual jocular commingling, the Phillies remained aggressive with other teams while avoiding a free-agent talent pool Gillick characterized as tepid.
Phillers
Tomorrow is the deadline for teams to offer salary arbitration to players who declared for free agency. The Phils won't offer it to reliever Ugueth Urbina, who frequently struggled after the Phillies acquired him from Detroit for Placido Polanco on June 9. Urbina has since been arrested in his native Venezuela on attempted murder charges stemming from his alleged actions at a party in October. The Phillies also don't plan to offer centerfielder Kenny Lofton arbitration.
I would schtein my pants if that went thru
Prior can't stay healthy for a full season, but you wonder how much of that is because of Dusty Baker's abuse of pitchers...
No doubt the injury bug hits Prior early and often. Not sure how I would feel about that.
I would jizz my pants if they could pry away the D-Train from the Marlins, but I doubt that is a real possibility.
Yeah, get Mark Prior. His team are Chicago's attendance champs, therefore, they must be the bestest. :-D
Quote from: henchmanUK on December 06, 2005, 10:44:06 AM
Yeah, get Mark Prior. His team are Chicago's attendance champs, therefore, they must be the bestest. :-D
that makes no sense, and I know your a White Sox fan, but you went a long way to take a swipe at the Cubs and it still made no sense.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 06, 2005, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: henchmanUK on December 06, 2005, 10:44:06 AM
Yeah, get Mark Prior. His team are Chicago's attendance champs, therefore, they must be the bestest. :-D
that makes no sense, and I know your a White Sox fan, but you went a long way to take a swipe at the Cubs and it still made no sense.
Fair does. I guess the point I was trying to make was that I wouldn't get over-excited about Prior. Frankly I'd rather have Aaron Rowand. ;)
its quite a risk to get injury lover like prior. but as this point, its worth it. id do it.
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 10:37:23 AM
No doubt the injury bug hits Prior early and often. Not sure how I would feel about that.
I would jizz my pants if they could pry away the D-Train from the Marlins, but I doubt that is a real possibility.
I know the Marlins are having a Liquidation sale but is D-Train even avaible?
nope. hes not going anywhere. unless we offer utley, madson, myers, howard, floyd, hammells, bourn and golson.
I'd do Abreu for Prior in a heartbeat. Hell I'd even throw in a marginal prospect or two to get it done. Trading a 31 year old RF for a 25 year old future Cy Young winner is worth the gamble.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on December 06, 2005, 12:52:13 PM
I'd do Abreu for Prior in a heartbeat. Hell I'd even throw in a marginal prospect or two to get it done. Trading a 31 year old RF for a 25 year old future Cy Young winner is worth the gamble.
If they knew that for a fact, it wouldn't be much of a gamble.
looks like i was probably wrong, again: from newsday
QuoteWhile the cost-cutting Marlins still are refusing to lower their asking price of Robinson Cano for Juan Pierre, they have begun to tell teams that every player on their roster - including Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera - is available for the right price.
lineup boners. i have lineup boners.
willis, lieber, myers, lidle, who cares
or
rollins, utley, cabrera, abreu, burrell, howard, rowand, loserthal
boners.
I think I just fainted.
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Dontrelle Willis. I HATE, HATE, HATE him as a Marlin, but the guy is just so much fun you can't hate him. I love watching his interviews and seeing him out and about on camera. And of course, he's a farging ACE.
If Gillick could get him here, I'd start a petition to get a statue of him bronzed outside of the Park.
It would take a lot, definatley. Like Hammels and Floyd a lot. But Floyd sucks and Hammels hasnt pitched a full season in like 3 years of being a Phillie. And Willis is young and a freakin Cy Young winner, so um, I would do it. But again, the Marlins would probably need to be swept off their feet to trade both guys. If they go, that team they have might not win 30 games or draw 500,000 fans.
I can't think of too many things the Marlins would ask for in return for Willis that I wouldn't be willing to give.
He's exactly what this team needs for 2006 and beyond.
If they asked for Utley or Howard I'd say no.
But anyone else they can have.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 06, 2005, 02:20:26 PM
If they asked for Utley or Howard I'd say no.
But anyone else they can have.
Right. I said I can't think of "too many things". I didn't say "I can't think of anything". Big difference.
Let's just ship them Victorino, Abreu, and Hamels or Floyd and be done with it. That should do it. Maybe.
We could always throw in DaBell or Lieby to sweeten the pot. Ha!
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 06, 2005, 02:20:26 PM
If they asked for Utley or Howard I'd say no.
But anyone else they can have.
i would trade utely or howard (not both) for dontrelle willis. no doubt about it.
take out the sentimental value of howard or utley....it's a no brainer.
LOL, I know. I was just sayin'. :P
QuotePrior For Abreu: Forget It
One of the hot rumors at the moment is that the Cubs "didn't say no" when the Phillies asked for Mark Prior in return for Bobby Abreu. This Philadelphia Daily News article only fueled the fire, adding that the Cubs would consider dealing Carlos Zambrano if not Prior.
Hopefully putting the rumor to bed, Bruce Levine quoted Jim Hendry recently on ESPN Radio 1000 as saying Prior for Abreu is not an option. According to Levine, Carlos Zambrano is off the table as well.
While the Cubs need a shakeup and Abreu is a star, dealing one of their young, cheap ace pitchers isn't the solution. Prior had home run and walk problems in 2005. Add in some injury concerns, and his value may be at an all-time low. Given his career 10.5 K/9 mark over 613 innings, Prior still has the chance to take back his spot as one of the best pitchers in the league.
The fact that Prior isn't available only fuels my hopes for Dontrelle.
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 02:33:07 PM
The fact that Prior isn't available only fuels my hopes for Dontrelle.
Ditto.
they dont want abreu. hes older, has a fntc and wouldnt accept a trade to a team that stinks and most of all has 30 mil coming his way the next two years.
they also dont want howard, or would have to give us mike jacobs in return.
utley for willis....lets hold out for 2 more days as the yankees will give rob cano for pierre (imagine if wade was still around, there is no doubt in my mind he would give up the farm for pierre). then utley becomes of no use to them.
take any of those pitchers, bourn or roberson...whatever. if they are interested in trading willis, get on the ball right now before someone else does.
There's zero chance of us landing Willis. No way the Marlins ship him here and if they did we'd have to part ways with a combination of Utley/Howard/Hammels/Floyd. No way Gillick ships Howard off after he traded Thome. The Marlins are trying to cut payroll so they're not going to take an Abreu or Burrell.
Sucks Prior is an untouchable, I'd of shipped Bobby ass out of here in a heartbeat to land him.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on December 06, 2005, 04:40:24 PM
There's zero chance of us landing Willis. No way the Marlins ship him here and if they did we'd have to part ways with a combination of Utley/Howard/Hammels/Floyd. No way Gillick ships Howard off after he traded Thome. The Marlins are trying to cut payroll so they're not going to take an Abreu or Burrell.
Don't shatter my dreams, ass.
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 04:41:21 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on December 06, 2005, 04:40:24 PM
There's zero chance of us landing Willis. No way the Marlins ship him here and if they did we'd have to part ways with a combination of Utley/Howard/Hammels/Floyd. No way Gillick ships Howard off after he traded Thome. The Marlins are trying to cut payroll so they're not going to take an Abreu or Burrell.
Don't shatter my dreams, ass.
It's fun to ponder in imaginery land but someone needed to bring you guys back to reality.
SD you know that about as much as I know what its like to have a penis.
You are aware of what the Marlins are doing right now, so how you can say that makes no sense whatsoever.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 06, 2005, 04:44:56 PM
You are aware of what the Marlins are doing right now, so how you can say that makes no sense whatsoever.
Because he's only 23, is dominant, and most important, is cheap.
1. Hamels had a recurrance of his back trouble and it is now supposedly going to affect him throughout his career.
2. The Phils, per the Inky and DN, are "trying like crazy" to trade David Bell and might have to pick up some of the $4.5M.
3. There are heated talks with the Dodgers where the Phils would get either Derek Lowe or Brad Penny or BOTH in a blockbuster type deal involving Abreu, David Bell and others.
4. Gillick said he has a major trade on the table and maybe a smaller one as well.
Hopefully we get some news today.
Oh, and there's this;
The Phils are still in heavy man-love with that loser Kip Wells and might send the Buccos Cop Killa for him. WHAT DO THEY SEE IN THAT NO GOOD PIECE OF TRASH PITCHER?!?!?!?
They are also interested in Mark Redman.
penny is doing alyssa milano so that would be a good deal, imo.
Has she boned Dontrelle and Josh Beckett yet? Maybe Beckett had a little Milano-Tweeden sammich action goin on.
She's been nailed by Pavano and Penny. Must've been moving from hotel room to hotel room in Miami a few years ago.
the marlins have made it pretty well known that willis and cabrara are untouchable
trade Hamels, Bell, Burrell, Lieberthal and Abreu for Willis. nice.
We should make a move on Conine, just so he can't kick our ass anymore. I hate that old bastich.
Please get rid of Bell.
It's sad that I care about this off-season, but I do. What's wrong with me!?! Why can't I just chalk this team up to the bunch of underachieving losers they are and move on my merry way?
Because you have a secret man-crush on Pat Gillick. Duh.
Quote from: MDS on December 07, 2005, 10:06:13 AM
Because you have a secret man-crush on Pat Gillick. Duh.
Maybe, but it's not as strong as your's on Bell and Lieby.
Shhh. They are so awsome, they need to stay. Mikey is so worth the 8+ mil he gets.
Love Prior's ability, but not sure if he'll ever stay healthy enough to get that Cy Young he seemed destined for not long ago.
I can't imagine Willis being available (that would make the Marlins AAA again), but I will put nothing past those loser owners in North Dade.
Trade Bell for a used banana cup for all I care. Just get rid of him.
QuoteDodgers join Abreu talks
Dec 7 - The Phillies and Dodgers have discussed a deal that would send Bobby Abreu and possibly third baseman David Bell to L.A. for pitcher Derek Lowe or pitcher Brad Penny, The Philadelphia Inquirer reports. The two teams are expected to meet again Wednesday.
According to ESPN.com's Jayson Stark, the Phillies and Blue Jays explored a potential Abreu-for-Vernon Wells swap at the GM meetings, and those discussions have resumed at the winter meetings. But since the Phillies want pitching if they trade Abreu, the names of Miguel Batista and Gustavo Chacin also might have to be tossed into the conversation.
The Red Sox (possibly for Matt Clement and Trot Nixon) and Astros (potentially for Brandon Backe and Chad Qualls) also are showing renewed interest in Abreu.
The Philadelphia Daily News reports that the Cubs learned Monday that they would need to include pitcher Mark Prior in any deal for Abreu.
I see a lot of non-number 1 pitchers in those rumors.
Clement? Yikes. He's had a decent year or two, but is it just a flash in the pan?
Backe and Qualls? No thanks.
Batista, Chacin, and Wells? Barf.
Prior? Sure, I suppose.
I just don't see them likely to get the value for Abreu we'd all hope for.
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 02:07:07 PM
I see a lot of non-number 1 pitchers in those rumors.
Clement? Yikes. He's had a decent year or two, but is it just a flash in the pan?
Backe and Qualls? No thanks.
Batista, Chacin, and Wells? Barf.
Prior? Sure, I suppose.
I just don't see them likely to get the value for Abreu we'd all hope for.
everyone in philly thinks he stinks...so this is potentially a lot of extra value using their train of thought.
Yeah, but he doesn't.
In fact, I can guarantee we won't have anyone nearly as good playing RF next year if he's traded.
P.S. Brad Penny or Derek Lowe? Is that a joke also?
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 02:12:00 PM
Yeah, but he doesn't.
In fact, I can guarantee we won't have anyone nearly as good playing RF next year if he's traded.
P.S. Brad Penny or Derek Lowe? Is that a joke also?
A number three starter for a 30/30/100/100 guy? That is a joke.
yeah, yeah, yeah, Abreu puts up great numbers, what has that gotten them in the past 3 years? nothing, if you can get value pitching for him, deal him. Lowe is a very good groundball pitcher and is money in tough situations.
Abreu for Lowe would make Dodger fans very happy.
Well another day and no new Phils news.
Anyone else a little pissed that Gillick isn't even looking to upgrade the catcher position? I mean, the Braves dealt him for 2 goddamn RP's!!
Molina and Hernandez are still out there chillin' while we have Loserthal.
Get rid of Bell and get another catcher.
Read on another board that if the Phils trade Bell then they might look towards Nomah to take over 3B....
Cant trade Loser. He has an unmoveable contract. Nobody wants him. As much as I would like to see him go, I've pretty much accepted the fact that hes gonna have his last hurrah this year as Phillies catcher.
I know he can't be dealt. But they could at least get a guy here and sit Lieby. The LIeby-Sal Fasano doesn't exactly bring me the warm and fuzzies.
Like Todd Pratt was any better? You can't pay Loser $9 mil to sit on the bench or play for someone else. So, you're stuck with a typical backup liek Fasano to complement him. It sucks, but blame Wade for giving Loser the contract extension back in 2002. It's his fault we've reached this point.
There was also a rumor that if the Cardinals do not offer Matt Morris arbitration, he will sign with a 2 year deal with the Phillies. Can't see that seals the deal on the pitching staff, but he is an uprgrade over El Loco (who it appears is done here).
No arbitration offered to Urbina, Lofton, Pratt, Martinez and Tucker, which means they can't re-sign with the Phils until May 1...
They're also not interested in Matt Morris or Jarrod Washburn. BUT....they're interested in Braden Looper as a setup guy... :puke
as long as looper isnt the last guy out the pen, im okay. hes not total garbage, but im not paying much for him
i guess the report on morris was wrong, anyway, no sense in getting in a bidding war for two guys that arent that good. hold out for dontrelle!!
This is from http://www.philadelphiaphillies.com, in the Braden Looper story:
The Phillies will try to do that too, for the time being. Rumors again flew, including a mega swap with the A's that would have dealt Bobby Abreu, Mike Lieberthal and Gavin Floyd for Barry Zito and Jason Kendall. But that would've added a total of $8.6 million to Oakland's payroll over the next two seasons, and the A's won't add salary.
There was also talk of shipping Jason Michaels to SD for Scott Linebrink, but the Padres shot that down. They're now talking about either Tim Stauffer or Adam Eaton, an ex-No.1 pick for the Phils.
What's the word on Wolf's elbow? If I remember correctly, he was "scheduled" to rejoin the team closer to the AS Break than Opening Day. Is he still on track for that? Anyone heard any reports about how his rehab/therapy is going?
No info on Wolfie other than he;s supposed to re-join them around the break and carry a nice $9M salary this year.
I am in "meh" territory on that A's deal.
Linebrink sucks.
Tim Stauffer? No.
I would be interested in Eaton for Cop Killa though.
why wouldn't they be interested in Washburn?
did they offer Padilla arbitration?
Oh, and I hope Looper doesn't sign here. The ONLY silver lining in this is that he reportedly had a shoulder injury last year which he pitched through.
Also...
Today is the Rule 5 draft. You can bet your bottom dollar that Gillick will draft a guy. He loves the Rule 5 (He stole George Bell from the Phils years ago).
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 08, 2005, 08:33:33 AM
Today is the Rule 5 draft. You can bet your bottom dollar that Gillick will draft a guy. He loves the Rule 5 (He stole George Bell from the Phils years ago).
Wasn't it
Jorge Bell back then? ;D
Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 08, 2005, 08:32:21 AMdid they offer Padilla arbitration?
They don't have to decide until the 20th of this month. Today's deadline was for unrestricted FAs....
there's some major news right now about a potential trade with Oakland...
there's different versions but one is Abreu/Hammels for Zito, but there would have to more pieces coming back, I would think
another version is Bobby Abreu, Mike Lieberthal and Gavin Floyd for Barry Zito and catcher Jason Kendall
the hammels trade would most likely contain one of the a's catching prospects
i like the second deal much better
actually thinking about it i dont particularly like either...why would you have to give up abreu and a top pitching prospect for zito...abreu alone is plenty
kendall isnt very good, and has a few years left on his deal. id rather just get though loser this year and start fresh.
from a Phillies MB:
QuoteStark was on ESPN radio @ 9 o'clock this morning and it was more than specualtion. The EXACT rumor was:
Abreu, Hamels, AND Bourn
FOR
Zito, Duchscherer, and around $10 million cash
Stark then stated that the Phillies would try to sign Jacques Jones to replace Abreu in right.
Who's Bourn?
Who's Duchscherer?
google.com
duchscherer is in their pen...im assuming hed take over the set up role
bourn is an outfielder at reading...a very good (not great) prospect who i personally love...unreal speed and someone i think could develop into a real good leadoff guy one day...id compare him to juan pierre
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 08, 2005, 11:57:55 AM
duchscherer is in their pen...im assuming hed take over the set up role
bourn is an outfielder at reading...a very good (not great) prospect who i personally love...unreal speed and someone i think could develop into a real good leadoff guy one day...id compare him to juan pierre
Thanks dook.
Duke had a save against the Phils on the Saturday FOX game when they were out there in June....
Bourn is basically Juan Pierre with a better arm....
I like that idea. Even though I like Bourn, I would like to get Ducshererererer and sign Jacque Jones. I will then hope that Barry Zito can pitch well and not wilt under pressure.
Jones sucks. Were better off with Victorino/Michaels.
Give up Michael Bourn?
Uhhh... wait. This is from Baseball_America.com...
Best Hitter for Average Michael Bourn
Best Power Hitter Ryan Howard
Best Strike-Zone Discipline Michael Bourn
Fastest Baserunner Michael Bourn
Best Athlete Greg Golson
Best Fastball Eude Brito
Best Curveball Gavin Floyd
Best Slider Zach Segovia
Best Changeup Cole Hamels
Best Control Cole Hamels
Best Defensive Catcher Jason Jaramillo
Best Defensive Infielder Brad Harman
Best Infield Arm Welinson Baez
Best Defensive Outfielder Michael Bourn
Best Outfield Arm Greg Golson
When will the Phillies learn that giving away their best prospects isn't necessarily in the best interests of your franchise?
:-X
First off, there have been conflicting reports on the trade. Some say its close, others say its not close to happening. So, lets not think that this thing is a few days away from going down.
One thing I heard from Gammons that was shot down (probably been said here):
Phillies get: Trot Nixon, Brad Penny
Dodgers get: Manny Ramirez
Red Sawx get: Bobby Abreu, JD Drew
Thats the kind of crap going around. Nothing is worth trading. Either we trade Bobby and get shtein in return, or package Bobby with top prospects from a questionable ace. I give up the farm for guys like Dontrelle and Santana, not Zito.
I'd do the Zito deal and then hope to sign Jones.
I don't get why they wouldn't offer Urbina arbitration though. I'd rather have him than Looper.
Also, why is that bum Rheal Cormier still in town? Can't we just tell him to get lost?
Cormier has $2 mil coming his way. Theres no sense in cutting an untradeable guaranteed contract like that. You might as well bring him to ST and see what happens.
Urbina is in jail, or awaiting trail. He's a mess. Nobody is signing this guy. Why lock into money with him when could be behind bars come April? I doubt he plays el basebol this year.
Jones has some interesting splits. He was pretty bad in 04 and 05, but most of that was because he was not batting leadoff or 6th. Last year, he was hitting around .270 in the 6 hole. When he hit 4th or 5th (had some significant at bats there), his strikeout numbers soared and his average dipped, an obvious sign him of swinging for the fences. But when 6th, he was a much better hitter. He would not be hitting in the middle of the order here. In fact, his best numbers came out of the leadoff spot, but he hasnt hit there in a few years. And I don't see how you can knock Rollins out of that spot after his September. He has to be a confident cocky douche with all the attention he got for the hitting streak. Just let him ride it and hopefully he picks up where he left off, thought I doubt it cause he has sucked ass in April.
Quote from: Eaglez on December 08, 2005, 10:08:24 PM
I'd do the Zito deal and then hope to sign Jones.
I don't get why they wouldn't offer Urbina arbitration though. I'd rather have him than Looper.
Also, why is that bum Rheal Cormier still in town? Can't we just tell him to get lost?
Two words: attempted murder.
I heard Gammons say something the other day about the Phils trading for Manny and then sending him off to another team. He didn't mention any names at the time though so I didn't bother mentioning it since it wasn't really news worthy. It still isn't news worthy but at least now it's somewhat relevant.
Miggy Tejeda wants to be traded (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252946)
Move him or Rollins to 3rd. Break the bank for this guy!
Quote from: MDS on December 08, 2005, 10:55:56 PM
Miggy Tejeda wants to be traded (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252946)
Move him or Rollins to 3rd. Break the bank for this guy!
Hells yes.
Get er done, Gillick.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on December 08, 2005, 09:58:11 PM
Give up Michael Bourn?
Uhhh... wait. This is from Baseball_America.com...
Best Hitter for Average Michael Bourn
Best Power Hitter Ryan Howard
Best Strike-Zone Discipline Michael Bourn
Fastest Baserunner Michael Bourn
Best Athlete Greg Golson
Best Fastball Eude Brito
Best Curveball Gavin Floyd
Best Slider Zach Segovia
Best Changeup Cole Hamels
Best Control Cole Hamels
Best Defensive Catcher Jason Jaramillo
Best Defensive Infielder Brad Harman
Best Infield Arm Welinson Baez
Best Defensive Outfielder Michael Bourn
Best Outfield Arm Greg Golson
When will the Phillies learn that giving away their best prospects isn't necessarily in the best interests of your franchise?
:-X
Well, if Bourn was in the Angels or Dodgers system and was recognized that much in the evaluations then it would be good. But in the Phillies barren wasteland of a minor league system its kind of like being the tallest midget in the circus.
I like the dude and I also like Golson and Roberson too. But one thing we used to rip Wade for was the reluctance to give up a prospect or two to get players.
Quote from: MDS on December 08, 2005, 10:55:56 PM
Miggy Tejeda wants to be traded (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252946)
Move him or Rollins to 3rd. Break the bank for this guy!
I couldn't see JRoll at 3rd, but maybe Tejada.
I think this has no shot of happening. In fact if I had to make odds on where he'd end up my money would be on him going to Beantown to replace Edgar Renteria
True. But we can always dream.
Odds are the Orioles tell him to shut the farg up.
Definatley. There are better odds of bionic waking up with a women in his bed tomorrow than the Phils landing Tejada. But just like Chuggie tells me about him wanting to be the only bar of soap in a prison shower........it's never going to happen but it's nice to dream.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on December 08, 2005, 10:29:47 PM
Quote from: Eaglez on December 08, 2005, 10:08:24 PM
I'd do the Zito deal and then hope to sign Jones.
I don't get why they wouldn't offer Urbina arbitration though. I'd rather have him than Looper.
Also, why is that bum Rheal Cormier still in town? Can't we just tell him to get lost?
Two words: attempted murder.
thats almost as bad as what terrell owens did. almost.
FYI...
Tom McCarthy is on the verge of going to the Mets to do broadcasting for them.
Why couldn't MDS' boy Wheels be going?!?!
If Tejada is available, why not simply send Rollins to Baltimore straight up for him?
I'd do that deal in a New York minute.
As for Bourn, I'd have no problem trading him but if they did, I would want more than what that package seemed to be offering. And just because the Phillies farm system sucks ass, that doesn't mean his being the best of the bunch makes his zesty either.
nobody touches wheels. wheels bleeds phillies red. he stays.
Hayes:
-Phillies are still in the running for Braden Looper. Oh goodie.
-They wanted Elmer Dessens, but he signed with the freakin Royals. Ha.
-Chris Booker was their main pick in the Rule 5 Draft, he could be on the team this year.
-They never seriously talked trade for Abreu. His name was obviously thrown around, but no teams would part with their ace, and thats what Gillick wanted for Bobby.
-Michaels name has been thrown around, too. But nothing has come back that is close to a fair deal.
-Phillies are leaning towards carrying 12 pitchers next year. That would leave their bench need at 1 (michaels, victorino, bell, fasano, xxxx).
Quote from: MDS on December 09, 2005, 11:38:54 AM-Chris Booker was their main pick in the Rule 5 Draft, he could be on the team this year.
He has to be or else he goes back to Cincinnati...
Quote from: MDS on December 09, 2005, 11:38:54 AM
Hayes:
-Phillies are still in the running for Braden Looper. Oh goodie.
-They wanted Elmer Dessens, but he signed with the freakin Royals. Ha.
-Chris Booker was their main pick in the Rule 5 Draft, he could be on the team this year.
-They never seriously talked trade for Abreu. His name was obviously thrown around, but no teams would part with their ace, and thats what Gillick wanted for Bobby.
-Michaels name has been thrown around, too. But nothing has come back that is close to a fair deal.
-Phillies are leaning towards carrying 12 pitchers next year. That would leave their bench need at 1 (michaels, victorino, bell, fasano, xxxx).
why do you have bell on the bench, are you figuring Nunez as the starter?
plus, don't forget about the pie-thrower, he's still on the squad.
Giving Marcus Hayes any shred of credibility is like giving Mark Eckel the same.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 09, 2005, 11:51:44 AM
Giving Marcus Hayes any shred of credibility is like giving Mark Eckel the same.
but wait, Marcus knows everything, just ask him.
Perez is going to be cut. Manuel wants him out after the incident in Florida and also the fact that HE SUCKS.
Nunez and Bell should be in a L/R platoon. You face more RHP than LHP, so I assume we will see more Nunez than Bell.
until they get rid of Lieberthal they are not serious about winning anything. He cant call a good game, cant hit, cant run, cant throw, cant even keep his mouth shut.
Quote from: MURP on December 09, 2005, 12:13:19 PM
until they get rid of Lieberthal they are not serious about winning anything. He cant call a good game, cant hit, cant run, cant throw, cant even keep his mouth shut.
It's just impossible to do for 2006. Thankfully, this is probably the last season of it.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on December 08, 2005, 10:29:47 PM
Quote from: Eaglez on December 08, 2005, 10:08:24 PM
I'd do the Zito deal and then hope to sign Jones.
I don't get why they wouldn't offer Urbina arbitration though. I'd rather have him than Looper.
Also, why is that bum Rheal Cormier still in town? Can't we just tell him to get lost?
Two words: attempted murder.
Yikes. I wasn't privy to that news. After knowing that I'd concur that it would probably be a bad investment to offer him arbitration. :paranoid
Marzano said that Todd Pratt and Kenny Lofton were not brought back because they were extremely negative influences in the clubhouse and Gillick doesn't want that.
FYI...
Lofton I'm not surprised, but I always thought Pratt was a goooooooooood guy. Hmm, interesting.
So did I. But he is a little tense with the media. I remember when he told Leslie Gudel to buzz off when she asked him about his playing time in ST last year. And I also remember one night on WIP when Steve Fredericks was still on there he called in and blasted Steve for ripping the Phils.
Maybe he can tear Atlanta apart at the seams now.
From the New York Post:
QuoteMeanwhile, the price of obtaining Jason Michaels from the Phillies has gone down but probably not enough to make a deal. After hearing "no" for two weeks, the Phillies no longer are demanding Chien-Ming Wang in return. Instead, the Phillies like reliever Tanyon Sturtze and left-handed prospect Sean Henn for Michaels, who would play center. The Yankees have asked the Phillies about Michaels, 29, for two years but were told he wasn't available. With the acquisition of Aaron Rowand, Michaels has been shopped.
But the inclusion of Henn, 25, has some in the Yankees organization wary because Michaels has never been a regular player.
I really hope this one gets done.
I'd take Strutze. :yay
oh christ...i hope they don't give up a good prospect like henn for that scrub michaels.
you can have sturtze though.
the post is also reporting that the sils expressed interest in pavano during the winter meetings.
So... the Phils are really making things happen...
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 12, 2005, 11:10:05 AM
So... the Phils are really making things happen...
They are making some things happen.
Mostly this: :puke
Quote from: Geowhizzer on December 12, 2005, 11:55:13 AM
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 12, 2005, 11:10:05 AM
So... the Phils are really making things happen...
They are making some things happen.
Mostly this: :puke
Or this: :-o
Or this: ???
But mostly :boom and :'(
I don't care enough about the Phillies to scour this thread, but here's the front page of the Houston Chronicle's sports page:
(http://images.chron.com/photos/2002/05/10/722762/342xSectionMain.jpg) (http://www.chron.com/sports/astros/)
Phillies outfielder Bobby Abreu is high on the Astros' wish list this winter.
blurb in the inky said today the dodgers have interest in david bell. i kid you not. if this is true, gillick has to get on the phone and trade him for anything. anything at all.
Quote from: MDS on December 12, 2005, 01:31:53 PM
blurb in the inky said today the dodgers have interest in david bell. i kid you not. if this is true, gillick has to get on the phone and trade him for anything. anything at all.
Sportscenter did a nice piece on some dude who's a peanut vendor for the Dodgers. He would be a trememdous asset to the Phils. In fact, the Phils may need to throw in a prospect or 2 in order to even things out and make the deal fair for both teams.
id welcome him with open arms.
Padilla traded to Texas for PTBNL (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2256742)
Saw that one coming. Good riddance...
Yes, because the Phils have a lot of quality starting pitchers who were being held back by Vicente being here.
Wouldn't it be funny if Padilla went on to win 20 games next year for the Rangers?
Man, I would lauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh!
PS: Nice to see the Schilling trade finally pay off. :yay
I'd like for the PTBNL to be Gerald Laird, a catching prospect.
Well, Crazy Vicente is gone so who takes over for him? When he's healthy he's not a bad pitcher.
I honestly believe Gillick has something up his sleeve. I think that the PTBNL isn't going to be much, but I think something else will be going down soon. He wouldn't send Padilla packing otherwise.
JMO.
Mostly it is a cost cutting move, IMO. He's arbitration eligible and this is the Phillies way of getting something for a guy who they had no plans on keeping. These PTBNL deals rarely amount to much but I sure do hope it is Laird.
He made $3.2M this year and would be getting a raise via the arb. so Gillick deals him to knock off some cash.
Now if he can deal Bell and his $4.5M to Los Angeles and then sign another 3B then I'll be happy.
Yup, that's what I mean. Cash saving for a specific reason.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 12, 2005, 03:46:41 PM
I honestly believe Gillick has something up his sleeve. I think that the PTBNL isn't going to be much, but I think something else will be going down soon. He wouldn't send Padilla packing otherwise.
JMO.
i think you're right. i hope so anyway. otherwise, they just traded a pitcher from a staff that was looking to add, not subtract.
no more flotilla
Thank god. Good luck keeping him off the bottle, Texas.
I'll miss Padilla ;D
Chris Wheeler won't miss him. He hates Latin people with talent...
I will miss Bell. I miss Glanville. Not Padilla.
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 12, 2005, 04:15:00 PM
Chris Wheeler won't miss him. He hates Latin people with talent...
Man, he used to rip on Padilla constantly. Harry would get so pissed. I would love it when he'd be ripping on Padilla's stance or the way he'd switch hit....and then Padilla would hit a double off the wall and HK would just laugh at Wheeler.
"Vicente looks awesome tonight."
*single to left*
"Ah geez....here we go again.....look how slow he is in the stretch....look how distracted he is....I sense a big inning now...*whine*"
*another single*
"Oh brother...GET HIM OUT OF THERE...Whitey hated you, Harry...geez...*sigh*...*whine*..."
Couldn't they have sent Wheeler to the Mets instead of McCarthy?
Speaking of which, I have to email McCarthy to tell him how utterly disappointed I am in him for being such a traitor. ;D
He lives in Jersey, the Mets had an opening for a radio guy, and he was blocked by Kalas and Graham, so I can see why he did it...
He would have been great with Harry instead of Wheeler, was my point.
A block of cheese and Whitney Houston all coked up would be better than Wheeler.
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 12, 2005, 04:26:41 PM
He lives in Jersey, the Mets had an opening for a radio guy, and he was blocked by Kalas and Graham, so I can see why he did it...
i'd take McCarthy over Graham anyday. i can't stand that pretentious, hackey fake radio voice.
Ditto.
(http://espn.go.com/media/mlb/2005/1212/photo/jail1.jpg)
Ugie
(http://espn.go.com/media/mlb/2005/1212/photo/accuser.jpg)
Guy who said he burned him
(http://espn.go.com/media/mlb/2005/1212/photo/jail2.jpg)
Ugie says he's being extorted
ESPN article (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2256632)
What a crazy farging story this is. I'm a little surprised this isn't a bigger topic locally. (or from what I've seen, so far)
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 12, 2005, 04:23:57 PM
"Vicente looks awesome tonight."
*single to left*
"Ah geez....here we go again.....look how slow he is in the stretch....look how distracted he is....I sense a big inning now...*whine*"
*another single*
"Oh brother...GET HIM OUT OF THERE...Whitey hated you, Harry...geez...*sigh*...*whine*..."
:-D :-D
Don't forget the refernces to him being a basket case and a nutjob. What'd he used to say all the time? Something about 'Look at this...what planet is he on?"
I think Ugie is being framed for money too. His home country is crazy....
It was a blip on the radar here when it first happened but Philadelphia sports scene has become nothing but the "piss and moan about Donovan McNabb" show. Thats all they talk about on the radio.
The only thing they said about it was "Oh look, our backup plan at closer is in jail accused of attempted murder....so anyways, that bum McNabb has to go!"
Also...
The guy rumored to be involved in the David Bell deal is Duaner Sanchez.
This trade needs to get done. I wanted Sanchez last year when the Polanco rumors started flying. He'd be a great 7th innning guy.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 13, 2005, 01:12:31 AM
Also...
The guy rumored to be involved in the David Bell deal is Duaner Sanchez.
This trade needs to get done. I wanted Sanchez last year when the Polanco rumors started flying. He'd be a great 7th innning guy.
Just getting rid of Bell will be a plus. I hope PG is right and they have something in mind for SP since Padilla could hold his own.
How about these trade suggestions? I don't know if they've been posted before:
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15742241&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18170&rfi=6
Basically, the idea was floated by Marzano--The Phils send Abreu to the Orioles straight up for Tejada. Then they turn around and send Rollins, Pat Burrell, and Gavin Floyd to Boston for Ramirez and Matt Clement. Total hit to the payroll would be 6M.
I stopped reading the post when I saw Marzano made them up.
There is as much credit in that as if one of us thought them up.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 13, 2005, 08:53:40 AM
I stopped reading the post when I saw Marzano made them up.
There is as much credit in that as if one of us thought them up.
What's wrong with Marzano? IMO, he's a great baseball anaylist.
He's extremely biased towards players he likes and doesn't. His trade scenarios almost ALWAYS include guys he wants out of town.
His scenarios are not coming from leaks or possibilities...they are coming from his mind and what HE would do if he were the GM.
I didn't say there was anything WRONG with him, but his trade scenarios hold no credit whatsoever.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 13, 2005, 09:02:02 AM
He's extremely biased towards players he likes and doesn't. His trade scenarios almost ALWAYS include guys he wants out of town.
His scenarios are not coming from leaks or possibilities...they are coming from his mind and what HE would do if he were the GM.
I didn't say there was anything WRONG with him, but his trade scenarios hold no credit whatsoever.
oh, ok. i thought you didn't like anything he did. i agree about the trade scenarios, they are usually pipe dreams.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 13, 2005, 08:53:40 AMI stopped reading the post when I saw Marzano made them up.
I stopped reading at "Jack McCaffery"
LOL, I meant the post. I didn;t even read the article. :-D
So... the Phillies are staring 3rd place in the face next year.
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 13, 2005, 02:38:23 PM
So... the Phillies are staring 3rd place in the face next year.
Mediocrity would be a gigantic step forward for this franchise.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on December 13, 2005, 04:30:48 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 13, 2005, 02:38:23 PM
So... the Phillies are staring 3rd place in the face next year.
Mediocrity would be a gigantic step forward for this franchise.
I thought we achieved that with our consecutive string of 85 win seasons.
I think one more would make it a trend rather than a fluke.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 13, 2005, 08:53:40 AM
I stopped reading the post when I saw Marzano made them up.
There is as much credit in that as if one of us thought them up.
Ummm... he is one of us.
:-D
Hey now, we won 88 games last season and were in the WC hunt the final day by virtue of the NL being extreamly mediocre.
so... like, whos gonna play RF if we trade abreu.. michaels? victorino? or do we trade for a RF as well.
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on December 13, 2005, 06:17:39 PM
so... like, whos gonna play RF if we trade abreu.. michaels? victorino? or do we trade for a RF as well.
IGY! :D
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051213/capt.arl10412131739.new_rangers_arl104.jpg)
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051213/capt.arl10312131745.new_rangers_arl103.jpg)
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051213/capt.arl10112131746.new_rangers_arl101.jpg)
Those bloodshot eyes of Vicente? Did he already hit up a bar in Arlington? Jeez.
He's sad that he's not in Philly anymore and has to play for Sgt. Showalter.
Whats shocking is he actually spoke to the media. All the years hes been here and I never heard his voice once.
Quote from: MDS on December 14, 2005, 01:58:34 AM
Those bloodshot eyes of Vicente? Did he already hit up a bar in Arlington? Jeez.
It would appear so, most definitely.
I was reading an article in the Ft.Worth papers....
1. Padilla is expected to be their #1 starter
2. Gillick refused to deal him to an NL team
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 14, 2005, 09:21:18 AM
I was reading an article in the Ft.Worth papers....
1. Padilla is expected to be their #1 starter
2. Gillick refused to deal him to an NL team
#1? Jeezus. And all we could get was a PTBNL?
I know the Rangers aren't known for great pitching, but still...
if hes their #1, then they really suck.
Quote from: MDS on December 14, 2005, 10:44:44 AM
if hes their #1, then they really suck.
Who's our #1 again?
jon lieber, whose really a #2
padilla is like a 4
so while they really suck, we just plain suck. big difference, jack.
Quote from: MDS on December 14, 2005, 11:11:08 AM
jon lieber, whose really a #2
padilla is like a 4
so while they really suck, we just plain suck. big difference, jack.
I disagree with this. I see Myers as the Phils' 1 at the moment with Leiber being 1-A.
if i had a game i had to win leiber is getting the start over myers everytime
myers has better stuff but has no idea how to pitch
therefore leiber = #1
what a great discussion. which non #1 is actually our #1. awsome.
Myers has the stuff to be a #1. If you can't see that, I suggest picking up a pair of bifocals at your local drugstore.
;)
PS: I'm hoping Gillick somehow manages to pull a rabbit out of his hat and brings a true "ace" to sit atop the rotation. I'm not betting on it, though, because the Phillies really don't have much to offer in return to get one at this point. If he doesn't, then Myers and Leiber will have to do.
Quote from: MDS on December 14, 2005, 12:29:52 PM
what a great discussion. which non #1 is actually our #1. awsome.
It's not as if Gillick is giving us anything else to talk about.
I guess we can rule out Bell to the Dodgers for Sanchez and prospects. Mueller just signed for 2 years with them.
Updated: Dec. 14, 2005, 2:26 PM ET
Report: Dodgers, 3B Mueller reach two-year dealESPN.com news services
The Los Angeles Dodgers have reportedly filled the left side of their infield, signing free agent third baseman Bill Mueller.
The Los Angeles Times and Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported on their Web sites Wednesday that Mueller will get a two-year contract, which is conditional upon him passing a physical exam. The Pirates had also been pursuing Mueller.
Mueller hit .295 with 10 home runs and 62 RBI for the Boston Red Sox last season. He joins shortstop Rafael Furcal, who signed with the Dodgers last week.
They are expected to bat 1-2 in the lineup.
Over his 10-year career, Mueller has a .292 average and a .373 on-base percentage with 82 homers and 478 RBI. The 34-year-old switch hitter set career highs in 2003, batting .326 with 45 doubles, 19 homers and 85 RBI under Grady Little, who was hired last week by general manager Ned Colletti to manage the Dodgers.
Los Angeles used seven players at the "hot corner" this past season, with Oscar Robles leading the way with 40 games played.
The Dodgers have an All-Star shortstop in Cesar Izturis, but he underwent reconstructive surgery on his throwing elbow late last season and isn't expected to play until July.
Izturis could be shifted to second base when he returns, with All-Star second baseman Jeff Kent moving to first.
crap
I've never been more pissed about another team signing a player I didn't care about. :boom
maybe the red sox or pirates want bell......maybe...
Send him to the Pirates for Zach Duke!
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 14, 2005, 10:07:20 PM
Send him to the Pirates for Zach Duke!
only if they include Oliver Perez
Dodgers about to sign Kenny Lofton.
Lofton's choices are Dodgers, DBacks or Orioles.
on PhilliesPhans they posted some highlights from Reuben Amaro on with Jodi Mac...
QuoteI just heard the tail end of an interview with Amaro on Jody Mac's show. Random memories from the call:
- Padilla was not part of the Phillies larger plan, and there was little interest in him from other teams at the Winter Meetings. Amaro cited his inconsistancy over the past few years as a reason, despite his talent. Texas was a team interested, and as such, they persued a deal. He said that Padilla wasn't doing things the team needed him to on the mound, and "other reasons".
- The Philles are not waiting on other trades to decide who they whould pick in the PTBNL. They like the list they have from the Rangers, they just haven't decided who would work best in the Phillies plans yet.
- Philadelphia is on Vasquez's no-trade list, but the Phillies are having talks with the Diamondbacks about other things.
- The Phillies are working with the Dodgers on something.
- Trade/deal activity is still hot, he commented that they are constantly getting involved with new talks, and received several calls today.
- Commented that there are many irons in the fire for bullpen help, starting pitching help, and "other opportunities"
- Any starter that comes to the Phils will be via a trade at this point.
- Nomar is not a fit for the Phillies. He said that we don't need a shortstop, and while many people think he can play 3B, the Phillies believe he's going "backward", and that there just isn't a fit in Philadelphia fo rhim.
- Mac asked if the Phillies work a deal first, then contact a player - or contact a player and feel them out before attempting to set up a deal. Amaro said it depends on the player and the situation.
- On that note, Mac asked if the Phillies have had discussions with Lieberthal about moving him, Amaro said that it was policy not to comment.
There was more, but that's all I can remember with any accuracy.
Thanks, Mo.
I read on PhilaPhans that Eskin reported today that Bell was heading to PIttsburgh for AAA C prospect Ronny Paulino.
Get it done!
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 14, 2005, 10:20:43 PM
Thanks, Mo.
I read on PhilaPhans that Eskin reported today that Bell was heading to PIttsburgh for AAA C prospect Ronny Paulino.
Get it done!
C as in C-level or C as in catcher?
Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 14, 2005, 10:23:54 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 14, 2005, 10:20:43 PM
Thanks, Mo.
I read on PhilaPhans that Eskin reported today that Bell was heading to PIttsburgh for AAA C prospect Ronny Paulino.
Get it done!
C as in C-level or C as in catcher?
Catcher. Here's last season's stats:
AA 6 HR, 20 RBI, .292 (43 games)
AAA 13 HR, 42 RBI, .315 (77 games)
MAJ 0, 0, .500 (just 4 ABs)
He's behind both Ryan Doumit and Humberto Cota in Pittsburgh's catching plans.
Pittsburgh's #1 prospect is a catcher too (Neil Walker)...
i dont care if its for testicular cancer, get rid of david bell
Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 14, 2005, 10:10:18 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 14, 2005, 10:07:20 PM
Send him to the Pirates for Zach Duke!
only if they include Oliver Perez
:paranoid
Randy Miller yesterday (http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/102-12132005-583474.html)
QuoteAt this point, the Phillies are convinced they won't get full value for Abreu, so the new focus will be to deal spare outfielder Jason Michaels. Pittsburgh has interest in Michaels, but talks broke off when the Phillies asked for left-hander starter Oliver Perez.
Quote"I'm not real comfortable with it, but at this point we'll have to do the best we can," Gillick said. "I can't see us getting somebody outside to fill the fifth spot right now. We're still up in the air on a setup guy and looking at what's on the free-agent market (for starting pitchers) and where we want to be (in payroll), I don't think there are people out there that can fill that role in our rotation. We're not paying $9 million for a pitcher."
they are really overvaluing Abreu, i don't really care if they keep him, but to think they can get an ace for him is just silly.
whens the last time an established really good outfielder...or any position player with a salary...was traded for a number one pitcher...fact is number one guys dont get moved that often unless its for money cutting purposes...and in return prospects are dealt...so i dont know if its that they are overvaluing bobby or its just really hard to get a number one in a trade
Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 15, 2005, 08:26:09 AM
they are really overvaluing Abreu, i don't really care if they keep him, but to think they can get an ace for him is just silly.
I don't think they can get an ace for Abreu. I think they can get an ace for Abreu and a combination of prospects and/or other assets.
JMike gets probation, no trial (http://kyw.com/topstories/local_story_349114304.html)
thanks for the info, B-Ed
Signed,
W-Span
tool
QuoteGrossman says ARD is not unusual in police-assault cases.
interesting. because I have a hard time believing the average Joe gets probration for assualting a police officer.
Yay! :yay
Braden Looper signed with Heaven for 3 years $13.5M.
Now we don't have to see that loser come here.
Nice. Have fun with him.
:-D
I didn't know heaven was located in St. Louis.
:-D
I can't believe they blew that much dough on that loser. Unreal.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 15, 2005, 08:49:16 PM
Yay! :yay
Braden Looper signed with Heaven for 3 years $13.5M.
Now we don't have to see that loser come here.
:yay
Looper wasn't horrible, and you can be happy he isn't here, but who's going to setup games with Madson in the rotation?
Mo... Looper sucked, plain and simple. Just because there isn't a set-up man in place now doesn't mean Gillick won't get it done before Spring Training starts.
Have patience, my young apprentice...
looper is a fine set up man...he just isnt a closer...i would have taken him in a heartbeat
:-D
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on December 16, 2005, 08:54:04 AM
Mo... Looper sucked, plain and simple. Just because there isn't a set-up man in place now doesn't mean Gillick won't get it done before Spring Training starts.
Have patience, my young apprentice...
he didn't suck for a setup role, i think you trash him a little too much. but hey, it's a moot point now.
I saw enough of him last year to know he blew. I realize he was alright for FLA, but he was a steaming pile of garbage last year.
QuoteJose Contreras and Jon Garland will be shopped by the White Sox to various teams, including the Phillies. The Sox will want pitching prospects in any deal, and may ask the Phils for one or both of the prospects they dealt to the Phillies in the Jim Thome trade.
Found this on PhilaPhans...
I would take Garland for sure and I would even take Contreras but Garland would be choice #1. Plus his wife is hot.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 16, 2005, 09:26:07 AM
I saw enough of him last year to know he blew. I realize he was alright for FLA, but he was a steaming pile of garbage last year.
Ding! :yay
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on December 16, 2005, 10:02:36 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 16, 2005, 09:26:07 AM
I saw enough of him last year to know he blew. I realize he was alright for FLA, but he was a steaming pile of garbage last year.
Ding! :yay
so he was good for Florida (as a setup man) and garbage for the Mets (as a closer)
why wouldn't he have been a good setup man again?
Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 16, 2005, 10:08:06 AM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on December 16, 2005, 10:02:36 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 16, 2005, 09:26:07 AM
I saw enough of him last year to know he blew. I realize he was alright for FLA, but he was a steaming pile of garbage last year.
Ding! :yay
so he was good for Florida (as a setup man) and garbage for the Mets (as a closer)
why wouldn't he have been a good setup man again?
Maybe because he played in front of 534 people a night in Florida and choked like a chicken under the hot lights of New York?
Playing in Philly is different than Florida, Mo. And it's not as if pitchers sustain greatness or even proficiency from year to year.
Like Phreak said, he was good in Florida and was horrendous last year in New York. Amazingly, the Cardinals are going to pay $4.5M per year for a guy who was pretty bad last year. Better them than the Phils.
Just my opinion, of course.
ok, you make a fair point, but the choking dog theory may also apply to closer vs setup roles.
i just don't want to hear any complaining when the Phillies are giving up leads like a hooker gives up STDs in the 7th and 8th innings ;)
You're assuming that Looper was the only option available to the Phillies.
It's December 16th, bro. Pitchers & catchers don't even report for another two months. Gillick is far from finished putting the club together.
I'll take a wait and see approach until then.
wasnt looper pitching hurt in the 2nd half of last season?
Pre-All Star 3.41
Post-All Star 4.68
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 15, 2005, 01:13:46 PM
JMike gets probation, no trial (http://kyw.com/topstories/local_story_349114304.html)
Burrell was with him and didn't get charged because he swung and missed three times.
Quote from: stillupfront on December 16, 2005, 11:13:45 AM
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 15, 2005, 01:13:46 PM
JMike gets probation, no trial (http://kyw.com/topstories/local_story_349114304.html)
Burrell was with him and didn't get charged because he swung and missed three times.
i dont think i like you.
but that was a laugher.
I hope they can move Bell. I'd take any pitcher the Pirates are offering, but I would like someone to stick in right now at the bottom of the rotation.
As for Abreu, he did have a crappy last half of the season but he is still a very good everyday player. I'm not going to get rid of a guy who can put in 160 solid games a season for someone that isn't going to give me production until a few years from now if even that prospect gives production at all. And the only way that you should trade a good, all-star everyday player is if you get a solid pitcher who will go out there 30-35 games and get you 15-17 wins plus keep you in games late to give you the opportunity to win.
That is all.
Aaron Fultz re-upped! (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051216&content_id=1283249&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi)
Holla! :yay
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 16, 2005, 09:33:49 AM
QuoteJose Contreras and Jon Garland will be shopped by the White Sox to various teams, including the Phillies. The Sox will want pitching prospects in any deal, and may ask the Phils for one or both of the prospects they dealt to the Phillies in the Jim Thome trade.
Found this on PhilaPhans...
I would take Garland for sure and I would even take Contreras but Garland would be choice #1. Plus his wife is hot.
Don't want Contreras, but I would love Garland.
QuoteHamels to get his shot
Manuel: Youngster to compete for starting job
By MARCUS HAYES
hayesm@phillynews.com
Despite their best efforts, the Phillies have failed to add a starter this offseason. What's more, they probably won't have a lefthander in the rotation.
Both issues could be resolved if they consider letting Cole Hamels compete for a spot in the rotation. As of now, that is an option.
Manager Charlie Manuel last night said that Hamels, the club's 2002 first-round pick, will get a chance to compete with 2001 first-rounder Gavin Floyd and 2005 rookie righthander Rob Tejeda for the fifth starter's spot.
"If he's as cool a customer as we think he is, I think he could handle it," Manuel said on Comcast SportsNet's "Daily News Live."
"It depends on how he'd do in spring training."
Manuel acknowledged that the Phillies' brass would rather let Hamels, 21, who has a devastating changeup, accrue more starts in the minors. Injuries have limited him to 28 outings, but he is a spectacular 11-3 with a 1.54 earned run average and 208 strikeouts in 152 innings. Nonetheless, he hasn't pitched above Double A, and was shut down with a chronic back issue after three starts there last season. Manuel said Hamels is recovering nicely after a scare 2 weeks ago during his rehab sent him to a specialist.
That relieved Manuel, who compared Hamels to C.C. Sabathia, whom Manuel helped push onto the Indians' roster when he managed in Cleveland. Hamels, Manuel contended, could be the sort of young pitcher who excels without a ton of time in the minors, "as long as he's healthy and throwing strikes."
In other news, the Phillies signed a veteran reliever, but not the one they hope will set up for new closer Tom Gordon.
Lefthander Aaron Fultz and the Phillies yesterday avoided arbitration when Fultz agreed to a $1.2 million contract, twice as much as his previous biggest contract. Fultz, 32, posted a 4-0 record and 2.24 ERA in 72 1/3 innings, all career bests.
He made $550,000 the last two seasons, spent with Minnesota and Philadelphia. He made $600,000 in 2003 with Texas.
Fultz had never before finished a major league season with an ERA under 4.56.
why the hell not, he can't be worse than anybody else they've got. if he's really going to be a stud, like they think he will, he should be able to compete whether he has a lot of minor leagues starts or not. look at Dontrelle.
barring any trades, the rotation appears to be: lieber, myers, lidle, madson, tejeda/floyd/hammels.
floyd and hammels would have the inside track because tejeda can be extreamly effective out of the bullpen. wont the be embarassing for gavin floyd, having a kid who has barely pitched in the majors and not even above AA beat you out for a spot on the big league team?
Quote from: MDS on December 17, 2005, 11:14:13 AM
barring any trades, the rotation appears to be: lieber, myers, lidle, madson, tejeda/floyd/hammels.
floyd and hammels would have the inside track because tejeda can be extreamly effective out of the bullpen. wont the be embarassing for gavin floyd, having a kid who has barely pitched in the majors and not even above AA beat you out for a spot on the big league team?
You mean, barring anyone coming to their senses.
The PTBNL in the Padilla trade is.....Ricardo Rodriguez, a starter/reliever mix that sucks... :boom
Yay. :boo
Well it was either him non-tendering Padilla and letting him walk. So, I guess the chance on the guy who sucks is worth a shot? Cholly isn't Bowa, plus he knows he has a short leash and that he has to win now. So, if this guy sucks ass, don't expect to see him around a lot.
yeah what did you expect to get for padilla?
a dozen prime-grade T-bones?
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 20, 2005, 08:42:51 AM
yeah what did you expect to get for padilla?
Blalock AND Teixeira. :paranoid
Scott Palmer was on WIP this morning and said that he always wanted to grow a goatee, but WPVI wouldn't let him. ;D He also said that he loves being on the inside of trade rumors and discussions and finds it hard to keep from spilling the beans about stuff that's been talked about. When asked why the Phils haven't made any major moves to get fans excited, he said that there's still plenty of time until the season starts and there might be something brewing... :paranoid
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 20, 2005, 01:55:38 PM
Scott Palmer was on WIP this morning and said that he always wanted to grow a goatee, but WPVI wouldn't let him. ;D
you're that happy about scott palmer growing a beard?
seriously...go take a smilie class or something.
Quote from: FFatPatt on December 20, 2005, 09:02:06 AM
a dozen prime-grade T-bones?
I don't think Texas can trade away Kansas City's farm system.
(http://nlfan.com/kansascity/guides/kck03guide.jpg)
Did Angelo ask Palmer how Monty's balls taste?
Quote from: Wingspan on December 20, 2005, 01:57:58 PM
seriously...go take a smilie class or something.
I've been saying all along that BigEd has a severe smilie addiction.
He overuses and misuses them more often than not.
We really should ban him.
Jacque Jones signed with the Cubs, so throw out the made up trade rumors with Burrell and Abreu
There's still hope! The Phillies/Eagles and Cubs/Bears could make a deal incolving Abreu, Prior, Jacque Jones, and URLAKKERRR!! GET URHLACHKERRR!!!
QuoteWhat's the deal with the penny-pinching all of a sudden? With just a little more money/years, we'd still have Billy Wagner instead of Tom Gordon. Now Gillick lets Braden Looper get away. What's the deal and where's this starter he keeps saying they're looking to get?
-- Nick D., Jackson, Miss.
The difference between Wagner and Gordon was pretty vast in terms of dollars and years, about $22 million and at least one more guaranteed season. The most Gordon will make is $21.5 million, and that's if the Phillies pick up the 2009 option. Wagner will pocket that much after his second season. Given that, Gillick had no choice but to let Wagner take New York's money and hope for the best from Gordon. Gordon's salary is more symptomatic of the market exploding on the Phillies, and could win up being a bargain.
The same argument is made of Looper, even though his decision put the Phillies in a bind. It's tough to describe a team with an expected $94 million payroll as penny-pinching, but Gillick is working within a budget and is striving for roster flexibility. As for the starter, it looks like that's going to end up being Ryan Madson, which could be a very good thing.
Do you think Chase Utley will start at second? Also, is Pat Burrell going to be in left? And any more information about Madson being a starting pitcher?
-- Kim K., Glassboro, N.J.
Ah, Glassboro, the town which houses my alma mater. Of course, it used to be called Glassboro State College then, which gives you an idea of how old I am. Anyway, I digress. Utley and Burrell are guaranteed starting spots next season. Utley will likely hit third, with Burrell fourth or fifth.
As for Madson, my money is on him being in the starting rotation. Manuel likes him there, and Gillick is open to the possibility. Sure, the Phillies would have liked to have traded for a starter, but Madson is a fantastic option. Plus, a bona fide ace would have likely cost Bobby Abreu.
OK, I'll bite. If Madson is going to be a starter, along with Lieber, Myers, Lidle, and Floyd, who in the hell is supposed to be the setup man?
This team has more holes than an English Muffin.
No more Chavez :yay
Huzzah!!!
This blurb was in Philly.com this morning and made me laugh quite a bit...
QuoteThat the Phillies have held on to Michaels is related to the fact that the Padres yesterday traded starter Adam Eaton and reliever Akinori Otsuka to the Rangers. The Phillies are believed to have offered Michaels and righthander Rob Tejeda for Eaton and Otsuka.
Yeah, like the Padres were going to give up Adam Eaton for a fifth outfielder and the 10th pitcher on the Phillies staff.
:-D
Did you see what they traded them for? A 6'11" back-of-the-rotation pitcher, a #1 overall bust that was acquired from Florida for Urbina in 2003, and a 5th OF acquired in the Soriano deal...
They should've taken Tomas Perez. In fact, I would give the Phillies $5 if they toss him in the dumpster behind Citty Bank Park.
I'm starting to like the idea of Madson in the rotation. I realize it weakens the back end of the BP but guys like that are easier to acquire via trade than a starting pitcher. So I would be more confident in Gillick being able to acquire a setup man or two via trade.
Phillies leaving Scranton/Wilkes-Barre for Allentown after '06 season (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/baseball/13471694.htm)
Nice. Less of a drive than heading up to the New York border...
Boooo. My camp goes to SWB game every year, even though I've been on day off the past two years and missed them. But still, I always kinda looked foward to seeing them. Oh well.
The Mets signed Endy Chavez to a minor-league deal
Quote from: MDS on December 23, 2005, 02:01:08 PM
Boooo. My camp goes to SWB game every year, even though I've been on day off the past two years and missed them. But still, I always kinda looked foward to seeing them. Oh well.
You still go to Day Camp?
You're a child.
Overnight camp, crackhead. And am I still a kid, so yea.
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 23, 2005, 01:55:47 PM
Phillies leaving Scranton/Wilkes-Barre for Allentown after '06 season (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/baseball/13471694.htm)
Nice. Less of a drive than heading up to the New York border...
boo...i live 15 minutes from the stadium.
granted, i only go to 1 game a year but still... :boo
well.. lidle enjoyed x-mas in cali. so yah, thats neat and all. :-D
Quote from: mhunt on December 28, 2005, 08:33:28 AM
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 23, 2005, 01:55:47 PM
Phillies leaving Scranton/Wilkes-Barre for Allentown after '06 season (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/baseball/13471694.htm)
Nice. Less of a drive than heading up to the New York border...
boo...i live 15 minutes from the stadium.
granted, i only go to 1 game a year but still... :boo
Baltimore is moving its AAA team out of Ottawa and could end up there, so the Columbus Clippers will still come to the area once a year...
As always take this for what its worth...
I found this on PhilaPhans MB...
Houston Astros MB moderator says that a one-for-one Abreu deal is in place with his salary being the only obstacle (http://mb3.scout.com/fhoustonastrosfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=2341.topic&start=1&stop=20)
QuoteActually, a deal is in place for Bobby Abreu to come back home to Houston. It's a one-for-one deal and the sticking point is money. Philly doesn't want to pick up any of Abreu's contract and Houston does not want to make a deal with that much money committed to one player given the need to pay *other* Astros next season.
Believe it or not, the deal in principle is agreed to already. But the deal may fall apart if the money difference isn't settled soon. I won't mention the player the Astros would trade to Philly, because it wouldn't be fair if in case that players winds up staying with the team.
If this is indeed true, I wonder who the player is? It obviously has to be a pitcher and if Gillick is to be believed then it would be a "ace".
Would Houston really give up Oswalt or Pettitte? Or is Houston going to unload Lidge?
i would crap myself with joy if it was oswalt
Houston would be absolutely stupid to deal any of those three, especially losing Clemens (and even if Clemens comes back in May).
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 30, 2005, 08:11:59 PM
Would Houston really give up Oswalt or Pettitte? Or is Houston going to unload Lidge?
I'd take any of those three.
Maybe it's Morgan Ensberg?
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on January 02, 2006, 08:12:53 AM
Maybe it's Morgan Ensberg?
I wouldn't trade Abreu for him. Fix one hole and open up a larger one. Ensberg's too inconsistent.
If it were Wade, I'd bet it was Duckworth. >:D
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 30, 2005, 08:11:59 PM
As always take this for what its worth...
I found this on PhilaPhans MB...
Houston Astros MB moderator says that a one-for-one Abreu deal is in place with his salary being the only obstacle (http://mb3.scout.com/fhoustonastrosfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=2341.topic&start=1&stop=20)
QuoteActually, a deal is in place for Bobby Abreu to come back home to Houston. It's a one-for-one deal and the sticking point is money. Philly doesn't want to pick up any of Abreu's contract and Houston does not want to make a deal with that much money committed to one player given the need to pay *other* Astros next season.
Believe it or not, the deal in principle is agreed to already. But the deal may fall apart if the money difference isn't settled soon. I won't mention the player the Astros would trade to Philly, because it wouldn't be fair if in case that players winds up staying with the team.
If this is indeed true, I wonder who the player is? It obviously has to be a pitcher and if Gillick is to be believed then it would be a "ace".
Would Houston really give up Oswalt or Pettitte? Or is Houston going to unload Lidge?
There is no way we trade Oswalt, I guess it's possible we trade Pettitte just to re-sign him this year again. If we trade Oswalt or Lidge to the Phillies, im becoming a Phillies fan.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on January 02, 2006, 08:12:53 AM
Maybe it's Morgan Ensberg?
If we trade him I will be incredibly pissed off. Lamb is a horrible fielder and a really streaky hitter.
i'm still wondering who he plans on bringing in to play RF if he does trade abreu.
sure we need an ace. but taking 30 SB's 30HR's and 100+RBI's out of the lineup for a pitcher that may only be here a year sounds pretty ed wadish to me. im not an abreu knobber slobber, but he is our right fielder, and if howard hits some sort of sophomore slump, we'd be dead in the water this year, then next year if its pettitte and he's gone in 2007.
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on January 03, 2006, 05:15:05 AM
i'm still wondering who he plans on bringing in to play RF if he does trade abreu.
sure we need an ace. but taking 30 SB's 30HR's and 100+RBI's out of the lineup for a pitcher that may only be here a year sounds pretty ed wadish to me. im not an abreu knobber slobber, but he is our right fielder, and if howard hits some sort of sophomore slump, we'd be dead in the water this year, then next year if its pettitte and he's gone in 2007.
they already are
after the eagles season this year i have no choice but to get hopelessly optimistic about the phils again. i think if they stay healthy they can make a run at the playoffs. im not holding onto some hopeless day dream their going to finally bring some sort of championship to philly, but im expecting some post season play this year.
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on January 03, 2006, 12:19:31 PM
after the eagles season this year i have no choice but to get hopelessly optimistic about the phils again. i think if they stay healthy they can make a run at the playoffs. im not holding onto some hopeless day dream their going to finally bring some sort of championship to philly, but im expecting some post season play this year.
i wouldn't, if you look at the team, they are worse than last year, and that team couldn't make the Wild Card in a year when the number of wins required to win the Wild Card was lower than normal.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on January 02, 2006, 09:49:06 AM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on January 02, 2006, 08:12:53 AM
Maybe it's Morgan Ensberg?
I wouldn't trade Abreu for him. Fix one hole and open up a larger one. Ensberg's too inconsistent.
CRACKHEAD! :-D
MLB.com's 20 Questions of 2006 (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051222&content_id=1286694&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)
Quote5. Will the Braves win another division title? Another question that asks itself. And this one is actually taking on a new life of its own. First you ask, "Will the Braves make it 15 consecutive division titles?" Now you have to add, "And can they do more with it this time?" For this is a club that is becoming legendary for its division flags, making that one World Championship (1995) flag at Turner look lonelier and lonelier. Will Leo Mazzone's move to Baltimore as pitching coach have a measurable effect? After all, Atlanta gave you the "Baby Braves" last year, and there is no reason to think the Braves won't be right there in October again.
.
.
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8. Will the White Sox repeat? ...Trading Aaron Rowand to Philadelphia meant giving up a player coming into his own, but the White Sox got Jim Thome in return to be their designated hitter....
.
.
.
9. Will Barry Zito be traded? ...The A's have fielded a number of inquiries about Zito, and the Phillies even reportedly offered Bobby Abreu in a package that would include him...
.
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.
18. Will Pat Gillick build another winner in Philly? The architect of those World Series champs in Toronto (1992-93) and a powerhouse in Seattle (116 wins in 2001), he has made some key moves (i.e. Rowand, Tom Gordon, Abraham Nunez, Julio Santana) for the Phillies since taking over as GM there. But there are still some challenges, namely finding a frontline starter and an established setup man.
Tomas Perez starting pitcher campaign has begun
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on January 03, 2006, 01:06:36 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on January 02, 2006, 09:49:06 AM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on January 02, 2006, 08:12:53 AM
Maybe it's Morgan Ensberg?
I wouldn't trade Abreu for him. Fix one hole and open up a larger one. Ensberg's too inconsistent.
CRACKHEAD!
:-D
Is he going to hit the 36 home runs of last year, or the TEN of 2004? Will he have 101 RBI like last year, or the 66 of 2004?
Is he better than Bell? Definitely. Is he as good/ better than Abreu? Hardly.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on January 03, 2006, 06:13:28 PM
Is he going to hit the 36 home runs of last year, or the TEN of 2004? Will he have 101 RBI like last year, or the 66 of 2004?
Is he better than Bell? Definitely. Is he as good/ better than Abreu? Hardly.
He changed his stance. And in 2004 he changed it with like 2 months left in the season and got the majority of his HRs and RBIs then. Plus he split time in 2004...
Quote from: Dillen37 on January 03, 2006, 06:42:35 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on January 03, 2006, 06:13:28 PM
Is he going to hit the 36 home runs of last year, or the TEN of 2004? Will he have 101 RBI like last year, or the 66 of 2004?
Is he better than Bell? Definitely. Is he as good/ better than Abreu? Hardly.
He changed his stance. And in 2004 he changed it with like 2 months left in the season and got the majority of his HRs and RBIs then. Plus he split time in 2004...
I don't doubt you, Dillen, but he's still had one good season. Is it possible that he's turned a corner and will put those type of numbers for the next 5 years? Sure.
However, he's had ONE season with 30+ homers, ONE more with 20+ and he's already 30 years old, 31 in August. Abreu will be 32 in March, and has two 30+ homer seasons, four with 100+ RBI, plus an OBP of .400+ consistently (Last year was Ensberg's best at .388). Not to mention the ability to steal the occasional base (31-6 in favor of Abreu last year).
Depending on what else is involved, an Abreu-Ensberg straight up deal is
bad for the Phillies, IMO.
I think we can forget about these trade rumors:
Wilson agrees to one-year deal with Astros (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-astros-wilson&prov=ap&type=lgns)
If we trade Taveras I am going to be extremely pissed off.
They won't. Lane or Lamb will go, and Berkman will play first. Unless Bagwell is coming back...but isnt he like 100?
Bagwell is only :-D 37 and he should come back...he said he's felt better than he has since 2000.
Oh, well then then who knows. But Abreu is going there now.
He will be traded for a bag of balls and some rectal cream, because thats what he's worth. Screw his high on base percentage.
World Series, here we come! (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2281263)
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 05, 2006, 09:59:46 AM
World Series, here we come! (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2281263)
Did the Phils re-hire Wade because this move has Wade written all over it.
:puke
i can't read that... what is it?
*nevermind - Ryan Franklin whoo hoo
I don't see how the Phils can be stopped now. They're move for move with the Mets. They just picked up their juice-head in Bretty B, and now the Phils have theirs in Ryan "no better than a 5 ERA in CBP" Franklin.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 05, 2006, 10:07:54 AM
I don't see how the Phils can be stopped now. They're move for move with the Mets. They just picked up their juice-head in Bretty B, and now the Phils have theirs in Ryan "no better than a 5 ERA in CBP" Franklin.
Probably more like 6.00+ ERA
What a zesty move, also a clear sign of desperation. What a crappy offseason, we've gotten much worse. :boo
ryan franklin is corey lidle
why not go with the kids in that spot...they cant be worse it will give them needed experience and youll be able to find out what you have
Quote from: SD_Eagle on January 05, 2006, 10:25:28 AM
What a zesty move, also a clear sign of desperation. What a crappy offseason, we've gotten much worse. :boo
This offseason is as good as could have been expected, sadly. With Lieberthal, Bell, and Thome (Phils are still paying about half of his salary) still getting paid a combined total of somewhere in the $20 million vicinity, going out and acquiring top-notch talent is downright tricky.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 05, 2006, 10:31:18 AM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on January 05, 2006, 10:25:28 AM
What a zesty move, also a clear sign of desperation. What a crappy offseason, we've gotten much worse. :boo
This offseason is as good as could have been expected, sadly. With Lieberthal, Bell, and Thome (Phils are still paying about half of his salary) still getting paid a combined total of somewhere in the $20 million vicinity, going out and acquiring top-notch talent is downright tricky.
Actually, I'd rather the Phils make no moves at all and use the kids, rather than shell out even more money to bring in retreads and bad players.
Bring up Hamels, Floyd and the like, give them their shot. They need to get it at some point.
The only positives out of this move is that its low cost, high reward and that Gillick still has not committed to any crippling contracts. While this years team looks pretty much like the bunch that choked things away last year, I say am I pumped for the inevitable 87 win season!!
Quote from: MDS on January 05, 2006, 10:36:20 AM
The only positives out of this move is that its low cost, high reward and that Gillick still has not committed to any crippling contracts. While this years team looks pretty much like the bunch that choked things away last year, I say am I pumped for the inevitable 87 win season!!
Not quite the same: No Wagner.
A .500 season would in some ways be surprising to me. I'd say more like 75-80 wins.
i agree...80 wins would be an accomplishment
Baseball-Reference.com bio (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/frankry01.shtml)
QuoteTelling the world how glad I am that you won't be a part of the 2006 Mariners cost me $15. It's the best purchase I've ever made.
:-D :'(
This guy freaking stinks.
This farging guy has been in the top ten in losses 3 consecutive years!
The guy has been #1, #5 and #9 in HR allowed the past three years, with half his games in SAFECO FIELD (390 ft. LF power alley). He could give up 50+ in CBP.
Quote from: MDS on January 04, 2006, 09:30:48 PM
He will be traded for a bag of balls and some rectal cream, because thats what he's worth. Screw his high on base percentage.
Should we also screw the 25-30 homers, 100+ RBI's, 30+ steals, 100+ walks, 100+ runs? How many other Major League players put up those kind of numbers?
You're an ass, sonny.
why did we seriously just sign that scrub. so now we have a #2 two #3's and a #7 pitcher.
and i retract my previous pipedream of us making post season play. lets here it for another 80 win season!! lets go flyers..
After careful review of the stats, I have proclaimed this to be an awful signing. Sure it won't be that big of a deal if he flames up and is cast away by May, but we could be in for a few bad weeks of pitching from this scrub. He sucks. By thank god its a one year deal.
He's making $2.6 million. 2.6 freaking million dollars.
That's about 40 times more than at least 90% of the people on this board.
i would be more then happy to suck at baseball for half that.
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on January 05, 2006, 06:34:25 PM
i would be more then happy to suck at baseball for half that.
Half that? I'd take 1/10th of it.
Meh.
I said in the offseason thread that I would like them to give this dude a look. It's a 1-year deal so if he does eat ass then he's gone.
But if he does turn it around then it is a good signing.
What this tells me is that they do not want to put Madson in the rotation because they would not be able to fill his set-up role.
The kids will still have a shot at a spot in the rotation.
If you all recall Gillick said that he wanted "several guys to fight it out" for rotation spots. So he is assembling bodies to compete.
Wouldn't it be refreshing, though, if he was assembling bodies who had actually won consistently at the Major League level?
This move is just more tightfisted horseshtein from the Phillies and I'm sick of it.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on January 05, 2006, 09:49:43 PM
This move is just more tightfisted horseshtein from the Phillies and I'm sick of it.
Gillick has no choice but to be tight-fisted, because of all the money locked up in dumb contracts by Wade.
Their payroll will still be top-5 this year, and Gillick is doing a good job of not getting them in trouble for next year and beyond, when he'll actually be able to make the moves HE wants to make with the budget.
Here's something that could make you happy--posted 6 minutes ago on Foxsports.com
Ramirez deal still possible; Phillies eye Tejada
Ken Rosenthal / FOXSports.com
Posted: 6 minutes ago
While the agent for Red Sox left fielder Manny Ramirez says that Ramirez remains open to a trade, the Orioles instead could deal shortstop Miguel Tejada for Phillies outfielder Bobby Abreu, FOXSports.com has learned.
The Phillies have proposed an Abreu-for-Tejada exchange with the intention of playing Tejada at third base. The Orioles want pitching in addition to Abreu, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations, raising the possibility of an expanded deal.
The good news is that the Phillies have pitching!
They don't have good pitching, but the article just says the O's want "pitching". Sweet.
I heard Pat Gillick on WIP on the way ome this morning and that is where I first heard about the Abreu-Tejada deal.
Cataldi: "Pat, there is a rumor out there from Ken Rosenthal on FOX Sports that says you're discussing a deal with the O's for a one-on-one deal involving Abreu for Tejada".
Gillick: "Angelo, I don't comment on rumors".
Cataldi: "Wow! That sounds like it might be good for us!"
Cataldi: " One more question...will there be any blockbuster deals in the near future? Say...before spring training?"
Gillick: " Probably not. I'd say the likelihood is slim".
So my elation in hearing about the rumor quickly subsided. :(
He's just playing it down. It's going to happen, baby. TEJADA! w0ot!
Yeah because general managers are always honest and direct with radio talk show hosts...
:-D
I'm pre-ordering a Miguel Tejada Phillies jersey. Who's with me?
:paranoid
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on January 06, 2006, 09:45:57 AM
I'm pre-ordering a Miguel Tejada Phillies jersey. Who's with me?
Hells yeah, daddy-O.
BTW: I think this rumor is laughable. If Baltimore trades Tejada for Abreu plus whatever, they're insane. Not even Peter Angelos is that reckless and stupid.
But...but...what will happen to David Bell? No! Can't do it.
If Tejeda is included in the deal, editors will go crazy... ;D
Abreu would be a perennial MVP candidate in Baltimore. Tejada would fade into oblivion in Philly. Sounds perfect.
Josh Kroeger was claimed off waivers. Yes. Were going so far now.
Are we POSITIVE Wade's gone?
Quote from: MDS on January 06, 2006, 06:02:22 PM
Josh Kroeger was claimed off waivers. Yes. Were going so far now.
Who?
The only Kroeger's I know are grocery stores in Texas.
Some guy. He plays outfield. He was in AAA last year for whatever team he came from. I don't know why, but this guy is the kind of guy that makes the difference between 78 wins and 79 wins. God bless this organization.
From Jim Salisbury:
The Phillies have offered Abreu for Tejeda, with the possiblity that LaTroy Hawkins would get thrown in for either Rob Tejada (am I doing the tejeda/tejada thing right?) or Gavin Floyd. Two things, besides Baltimore not wanting to do it, could stop this. First, Abreu has a FNTC. I don't blame him for not wanting to go down there, that franchise is a bigger joke than the Phillies. Second, Miguel was contacted about going to the Phillies due to the rumors. Good thing is he apparantley had no problem with coming here, bad thing is he has zero interest in playing third base (Phillies have no plans to move Rollins). Now if the trade is made, Miguel has no choice but to come here and play 3B next year. But, he can opt out of his contract after the season, and surley Gillick isn't making this trade if he is going to lose Miguel after one year. So....we wait.
The Phillies are also "lukewarm" about Mark Prior, due to his health problems. Don't blame them on that one, he's not worth much until he can consistantley stay off the DL. Phillies also tried to talk about Carlos Zambrano, but were shot down. No shot there.
Boston had some interest in Rob Tejada. They offered Matt Clement. Phillies aren't high on Clement and his contract. So no there.
The reason Octavio Dotel isn't a Phillie: Jeff Cooper. Yankees got him for 1 year, $2 mil. But, the Phillies trainer took a look at his injury report or xrays and what not and concluded that it was a no go.
THEY DON'T CALL HIM STAND PAT FOR NOTHIN!
No, you did not get the Tejeda/Tejada thing right.
Robinson Tejeda
Miguel Tejada
Now go punch yourself in the ear 40 times.
I'll make it 41.
Quote from: MDS on January 07, 2006, 03:24:06 AM
I'll make it 41.
You can't count that high. You go to Temple.
I can count up till 49. So ha.
FoxSports.com is slow on the uptake. (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5224028?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49)
not happening and we would then not have a RF. or pitching.
[duh]We could just sign Sammy Sosa[/duh] :paranoid
um....holla?
There goes that rumor.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2284081
Oh well. Maybe Schilling will start hinting at a trade and that'll take up some time until pitchers and catchers report.
Quote from: NGM on January 07, 2006, 09:36:03 PM
There goes that rumor.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2284081
Tejada: "Sh*t, you're going to trade me to the PHILLIES?!? Nevermind!"
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 08, 2006, 09:27:55 AM
Quote from: NGM on January 07, 2006, 09:36:03 PM
There goes that rumor.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2284081
Tejada: "Sh*t, you're going to trade me to the PHILLIES?!? Nevermind!"
:-D That is exactly what I thought when I saw that. On second thought that is probably the actual truth and I should be crying.
Have no fear, folks, because Franklin can turn it around (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/baseball/13562008.htm?source=rss&channel=philly_baseball)
QuoteThe Orioles also had been in talks with other clubs regarding Tejada, including the Chicago Cubs, who reportedly were prepared to deal pitcher Mark Prior, and the Philadelphia Phillies, who offered outfielder Bobby Abreu.
Published reports had the Phillies proposing that Tejada would play third base alongside shortstop Jimmy Rollins and then learning he was not keen on the idea, but one major league source said last night that the Phillies had spoken with the Red Sox about flipping Tejada to Boston for Manny Ramirez and a pitcher, presumably Matt Clement.
Philadelphia's willingness to explore a Tejada-Ramirez deal would suggest they might be persuaded to consider taking on Ramirez in another deal, perhaps one featuring Abreu.
The Philadelphia Inquirer has reported that as far back as the trading deadline last July, the Phillies - whose manager, Charlie Manuel, has enjoyed a long association with Ramirez dating to their time together in Cleveland - had sniffed around about a Ramirez deal, and did so again during the GM meetings. They came away with the idea that Ramirez, who has veto power over any deal, wasn't keen on playing for the Phillies, but perhaps, with the start of spring training just five weeks away, they have reason to believe Ramirez would reconsider.
Trading Abreu is not without complications, however. He is guaranteed $31 million over the next two years, and there is an $18 million club option for the 2008 season that Abreu presumably would like to see exercised in exchange for waiving his no-trade clause.
From the Boston Globe....
Abreu will be a Phillie for the entire 2006 season. The rest is smoke and mirrors.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 09, 2006, 08:56:44 AM
Abreu will be a Phillie for the entire 2006 season. The rest is smoke and mirrors.
That's my guess as well.
Any of you that are in Philly full-time, why is there so much talk about trading Abreu this winter? Who wants to get rid of a high-OPS player that has power and speed?
Why are the Phils so apparently anxious to get rid of him?
I think the reason the Phils are dangling him is becuse they know they need pitching and other than Rollins, Howard and Utley Abreu is their best piece to offer in trade. I assume they figure they'll get enough offense without him that they can afford to trade him for pitching.
I am an Abreu fan, but this guy is hated here. I don't get it.
i don't hate the guy, and if they can't get an ace for him, i don't want to move him. but he makes a ton of money and puts up great numbers, but he isn't very good in the clutch and seems to play his best ball when there is no pressure on him. he also doesn't hustle a lot.
How Abreu is treated reminds alot of the Schmidt days. None of us realize how great the guy actually is. He looks like he isn't hustling but he really is. There is something to be said for his fluidity of motion which translates into looking like he is jogging. He is worth at least a frontline starter and should be here if we can't land one.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 09, 2006, 10:03:20 AM
I am an Abreu fan, but this guy is hated here. I don't get it.
philly fans have a tendency to be complete morons
Quote from: stillupfront on January 09, 2006, 10:31:27 AM
He is worth at least a frontline starter and should be here if we can't land one.
obviously he's not, or they would have traded him by now. they've tried like crazy to get a pitcher for him all winter and they can't get it done, so obviously he's not worth a frontline starter.
stop with the Schmidt comparisons, Schmidt was the best 3B to play the game. Abreu is a good RF who has had and will have a nice career. to compare the two is the very sentiment that brings me to point out the negatives of a nice player. people think i hate the guy, i don't, i hate the constant overrating he gets.
Good point about the Schmidt comparison Sun Mo. What I was inferring is our lack of appreciation of his talent. We didn't fully appreciate number 20 til he retired.
there's a poster on philliesphans that just posted this...
QuoteI'm back. I had to come out of retirement to post this.
This is basically a done deal with some minor issues to iron out. I would anticipate a press conference later this week.
Abreu will be involved.
when i asked about this poster's credibility, i was surprised to find out that this guy has some sort of source in the Phillies and he predicted the Milton and Wagner deals, and usually when he says a player is coming to the Phillies is happens, so take it for what it's worth.
which deal is basically a done deal? Schmidt?
ha! i forgot the trade was in the title of the thread...
Manny to the Phils
Quote from: Sun_Mo on January 10, 2006, 01:09:57 PM
ha! i forgot the trade was in the title of the thread...
Manny to the Phils
No shtein?
Was that source 'ilk' Sun?
Yea its him. Who knows if he's pulling this out of his ass. He said his sources went away when Wade was canned, and his last big trade post was in the infamous Nomar to the Phillies thing. But.....I'm still excited nonetheless.
Quote from: MDS on January 10, 2006, 01:12:41 PM
Yea its him.
Hmmm...despite the Nomar thing his other stuff has been spot on.
Where's Ed when you need him? ;D
Quote from: SD_Eagle on January 10, 2006, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on January 10, 2006, 01:09:57 PM
ha! i forgot the trade was in the title of the thread...
Manny to the Phils
No shtein?
Was that source 'ilk' Sun?
indeed
hi
Like others said, ILK has been correct about 90% of the time except for the Nomar thing, but he left PP when Wade was fired, saying he had no sources anymore. Someone over there said that Gillick was at a PAL luncheon, so maybe it was an off-the-record thing that came up...I dunno... ???
As good as Manny is at the plate, a defensive outfield of Manny/Rowand/Burrell (out of position) is pretty friggin bad. With that said, it is possible that both Burrell and Abreu are invovled in this deal (and maybe Matt Clement). Don't have enough information to speculate, but I presume Gillick is staying within the budget and would not make any crippling moves to the defense of this team.
Manny would play RF
maybe Manny will be our #1 pitcher.
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 10, 2006, 01:18:41 PM
Manny would play RF
He would be about a billion times worse in RF than Abreu was. Him jogging towards balls in the corners while the batter can coast in with a triple instead of a double? Man as good as he is at the plate.....somewhere along the line you have to wonder how much his lack of interest/skill in the field matters. The way the Phillies look at this is purley from a market standpoint. This is the kind of move that will put people in the seats. Thats really all the main line snob owners care about.
Would he throw a tantrum over not getting #24 away from the best catcher in Phillies history? ;D
:-D God I hope Manny hits him over the head with his bat.
Abreu never hustles for the ball, he's got an outstanding arm but his fielding skills are only ok. Manny's clutch hitting would be a welcome and needed addition to this lineup. 3-Ramirez, 4-Howard, 5-Burrell :drool
Rollins
Utley
Manny
Howard
Burrell
Rowand
Bell
Lieberthal
OR
Rollins
Rowand
Utley
Manny
Howard
Burrell
Bell
Lieberthal
Been looking around on some Sox boards but haven't found anything aside from the rumors a few weeks ago. Wonder if there are any 'throw ins' involved like Cop Beater.
No way Gillick takes on Manny's contract. No way.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 10, 2006, 01:49:05 PM
No way Gillick takes on Manny's contract. No way.
Why not? He's only due $7million more than Abreu next season and we've already cut a ton of payroll. Attendance dropped bigtime last season and Manny will fill the seats.
Ha, awesome. Boston will shtein their collective pants when manny leaves. They're gonna be last in the East this year. I love it.
Quote from: rjs246 on January 10, 2006, 01:55:41 PM
Ha, awesome. Boston will shtein their collective pants when manny leaves. They're gonna be last in the East this year. I love it.
you should just wear a Manny Ramirez jersey every day
I'd have to layer it with Damon, Martinez and Renteria jerseys for full effect.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on January 10, 2006, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 10, 2006, 01:49:05 PM
No way Gillick takes on Manny's contract. No way.
Why not? He's only due $7million more than Abreu next season and we've already cut a ton of payroll. Attendance dropped bigtime last season and Manny will fill the seats.
$7 million is a huge chunk of change, and the Phillies really haven't cut THAT much payroll at all this year. Plus, it's not just this year they'd have to worry about... Manny's contract is nice and hefty for years to come.
Just realize now that this will not happen.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 10, 2006, 02:46:57 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on January 10, 2006, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 10, 2006, 01:49:05 PM
No way Gillick takes on Manny's contract. No way.
Why not? He's only due $7million more than Abreu next season and we've already cut a ton of payroll. Attendance dropped bigtime last season and Manny will fill the seats.
$7 million is a huge chunk of change, and the Phillies really haven't cut THAT much payroll at all this year. Plus, it's not just this year they'd have to worry about... Manny's contract is nice and hefty for years to come.
Just realize now that this will not happen.
his contract runs through 2008 i beleive. not all that long.
When ILK has said something "will" happen, then it has. So...believe what you want.
Remember, Boston might be picking up a nice chunk of the contract.
Yup, and Abreu's deal goes up substantially the next 2 seasons. They cut Thome's contract and didn't re-sign Wagner. They added Gordon, there should be money to add a player of Manny's caliber.
Quote from: MDS on January 10, 2006, 02:52:16 PM
When ILK has said something "will" happen, then it has. So...believe what you want.
Remember, Boston might be picking up a nice chunk of the contract.
Exactly, when he says things like 'this deal has a chance' it doesn't come true. When he's said it 'will' happen it does.
You guys sound like taterskins fans. Stop it.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 10, 2006, 03:43:35 PM
You guys sound like taterskins fans. Stop it.
Maybe if we talked more about winning the World Series every year.
Yea, we blindly support the team and teabag our idiot coach who has obviously no idea what hes doing
I was referring to turning a faint hope of something positive happening into a justification that it is likely to happen.
Liar
Anyone who says the Phillies are getting Manny Ramirez is a liar.
You calling me liar?
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 10, 2006, 04:17:28 PM
Anyone who says the Phillies are getting Manny Ramirez is a liar.
You're calling Ed a liar? :o
Quote from: stillupfront on January 09, 2006, 11:10:46 AM
Good point about the Schmidt comparison Sun Mo. What I was inferring is our lack of appreciation of his talent. We didn't fully appreciate number 20 til he retired.
Speak for yourself, pipe-hitter.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on January 10, 2006, 04:23:33 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 10, 2006, 04:17:28 PM
Anyone who says the Phillies are getting Manny Ramirez is a liar.
You're calling Ed a liar? :o
If the shoe fits...
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 10, 2006, 01:28:05 PM
Would he throw a tantrum over not getting #24 away from the best catcher in Phillies history? ;D
Ed, Ed, Ed... Bob Boone wore #8, not #24. ;)
Quote from: MDS on January 10, 2006, 04:21:40 PM
You calling me liar?
Want some chocolate cake?
I will take a wait and see approach on this. But I cannot wait to hear the anti-Abreu crowd on the radio when Manny is loafing it up in the OF.
I would love Manny to come here.
And Boston would pick up some of his $$$$ most likely.
ILK updated saying the hangup was the Phillies wanting $5 mil and Boston wanting to give $3 mil..........
Quote from: SD_Eagle on January 10, 2006, 04:23:33 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 10, 2006, 04:17:28 PM
Anyone who says the Phillies are getting Manny Ramirez is a liar.
You're calling Ed a liar? :o
How did I get dragged into this? ???
Maybe because you lie and lie and lie
Quote from: MDS on January 10, 2006, 09:48:23 PM
ILK updated saying the hangup was the Phillies wanting $5 mil and Boston wanting to give $3 mil..........
Is that all? I bet if you asked J. Whyatt Mondesire, he'd say that McNabb should pay the difference.
Quote from: MDS on January 10, 2006, 03:51:24 PM
Yea, we blindly support the team and teabag our idiot coach who has obviously no idea what hes doing
Do you mean Gibbs?
Quote from: Geowhizzer on January 10, 2006, 09:18:16 PM
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 10, 2006, 01:28:05 PM
Would he throw a tantrum over not getting #24 away from the best catcher in Phillies history? ;D
Ed, Ed, Ed... Bob Boone wore #8, not #24. ;)
Bob Boone=Bill Buckner if not for Pete Rose.
(http://www.concretefield.net/YaBBImages/avatars/coaches/childress.gif)
Time for an "aviator" change for someone...
:-D
Quote from: stillupfront on January 10, 2006, 11:31:34 PM
Quote from: MDS on January 10, 2006, 03:51:24 PM
Yea, we blindly support the team and teabag our idiot coach who has obviously no idea what hes doing
Do you mean Gibbs?
ding ding archie bunker
so we'd downgrade RF defensively, but upgrade it offensively. sounds like pure PR to me. can't wait to see how many 13-10 , 12-11 games we lose cuz not only can't we keep the other team from scoring, but even when we have a lead, we can't close out the game. god help us if the pitching staff gets any sort of injury what so ever.
Update from ILK 10 minutes ago: Clement and Michaels are involved in the deal, and the $2M per year difference of what the Phils want Boston to pay is the main holdup...
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 11, 2006, 12:59:57 PM
Update from ILK 10 minutes ago: Clement and Michaels are involved in the deal, and the $2M per year difference of what the Phils want Boston to pay is the main holdup...
So it's Abreu/Michaels for Clement/Manny?
Unless they've got a more useful plan for that $2M they need to anti up and get this deal done.
Boston has to be paying some of Clements contract, too. The Phillies didnt trade Tejeda for him because they didnt think he was worth it.
Just a guess, but they're probably trying to determine which of the following will also be included:
Tejeda to the Sox and $5M/yr to the Phils
OR
AAA/AA pitcher to the Sox and only $3M/yr to the Phils
yeah right...two million dollars is holding up a major league baseball deal of this size
per year, so it's actually a difference of about $10M apart ($25M vs $15M)
ah ha
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 11, 2006, 01:27:53 PM
per year, so it's actually a difference of about $10M apart ($25M vs $15M)
Ok, well that makes a lot more sense then. I was thinking it was a total of $2M and that was totally pissing me off.
OK, if this is really going to happen, who wants to bet Manny misses at least 40-50 games next year?
Go Phils.
Quote from: MDS on January 11, 2006, 03:28:54 AM
Quote from: stillupfront on January 10, 2006, 11:31:34 PM
Quote from: MDS on January 10, 2006, 03:51:24 PM
Yea, we blindly support the team and teabag our idiot coach who has obviously no idea what hes doing
Do you mean Gibbs?
ding ding archie bunker
So you are saying that Gibbs obviously has no idea what he is doing?
edit: phillies thread
Leave it to the Phillies to have a deal scuttled because of a few million dollars.
farging putrid organization...
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on January 11, 2006, 05:12:14 AM
so we'd downgrade RF defensively, but upgrade it offensively. sounds like pure PR to me. can't wait to see how many 13-10 , 12-11 games we lose cuz not only can't we keep the other team from scoring, but even when we have a lead, we can't close out the game. god help us if the pitching staff gets any sort of injury what so ever.
not really, whether it's manny in left and burrell in right, or manny in right, the preceived defensive downgrade you claim would be slight when compared to the offensive upgrade
i disagree with that...manny is worse than burrell and thats saying something...i dont think people are really comprehending just how bad the outfield would be with manny and burrell playing pinball in the corners all year
i wouldnt trade abreu for any position player outside of a young third baseman...in fact id trade him for a good number 2 pitcher over manny anyday
manny's bad in the outfield, i'm not denying that, but Bobby isn't much better. he has a good arm, but Manny was among league leader in assists the past few years. Manny makes some mind boggling plays in the outfield, but those aren't any worse than Bobby not being able to (or not wanting to) go back on a fly ball.
as for Burrell, he's made himself a serviceable LF, nothing great, but not terrible. if the CF of this outfeild next year was Michaels or Lofton, i'd not like it, but Rowand's going to be able to make up a lot of ground out there and should help keep the outfield defense from hurting the team beyond the it's offensive output.
manny gets assists because when the ball goes his way second base doesnt exist...the fans even try for third when the ball goes to left field in fenway
as for abreu hes not a gold glover by any means but hes far and away better than manny...it goes something like this
gold glover
abreu
rob deer
manny
I'm in no mood to argue with you today, IGY.
I have more pressing concerns not to mention a heavy heart, so I'll save it for another day.
Needless to say, I disagree with your commentary regarding Manny. Enjoy your solitary circle jerk.
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 11, 2006, 03:43:27 PM
manny gets assists because when the ball goes his way second base doesnt exist...the fans even try for third when the ball goes to left field in fenway
as for abreu hes not a gold glover by any means but hes far and away better than manny...it goes something like this
gold glover
abreu
rob deer
manny
no
No fly balls stay in CBP anyway.
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 11, 2006, 12:59:57 PM
Update from ILK 10 minutes ago: Clement and Michaels are involved in the deal, and the $2M per year difference of what the Phils want Boston to pay is the main holdup...
If that's the deal than Gillick deserves some credit. Clement was the Padres #1 pitching prospect before coming up. He has good stuff and would look great at the back of the order.
Clement>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ryan Franklin
Abreu has a great arm but his fielding skills have never impressed me. Name me the last time he's hustled for a ball hit to the corner in right?
if clement is involved then yes you absolutely 100% do it
if it were manny for bobby i wouldnt hate on it but it wouldnt improve the team in the least...for some reason a lot of people think manny is the answer to all
Adding Manny would at least give the fans of lesser knowledge another false reason to think the Phils will make the playoffs, only to have them miss by a handful of games again. So, they'd have THAT going for them... which is nice.
Manny's maybe the top righthanded hitter in the game. His clutch hits are where it's at. Abreu hits a lot of meaningless HRs and 2Bs. His bat in the middle of this lineup would be huge.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on January 11, 2006, 04:53:23 PMManny's maybe the top righthanded hitter in the game.
Some guy named Pujols would disagree... :)
And that guy named Bell.
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 11, 2006, 05:54:11 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on January 11, 2006, 04:53:23 PMManny's maybe the top righthanded hitter in the game.
Some guy named Pujols would disagree... :)
Keyword: 'maybe' :)
First thing I did when I woke up was put on ESPNews to see the bottomline.
Get it done already, Gillick.
[grain of salt] ILK reappeared less than an hour ago and said the money situation was resolved....now they're trying to figure out which prospect(s) are going to be involved... [/salt]
This is the same toolbag who predicted that Nomar was going to be a Phillie.
:-D
We'll see, though. I hope it's right. Manny & Clement for Abreu & Michaels = baseball wood.
Actually he never guaranteed that. He said it was being discussed...
Please let this happen. :yay
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 11, 2006, 08:39:41 PM
Actually he never guaranteed that. He said it was being discussed...
LOL. I know. I just thought a rumor like that causing an 88 page thread was funny.
If he's fishing, he's got my respect, I'll tell you that.
Man I just can't buy this. I want to, but I can't.
You can and you will!
yes sir
Never! Temple basketball rules beyotch.
IGY, technically Abreu is a gold glover.
2005 NL Gold Gloves (http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/gold_glove_nl_alt.shtml#2005)
Prior to 2005 Abreu was atrocious in the outfield. Last year he did show a lot of hustle and effort so I gotta give him that. Even prior to last year, he was still a better OF than Manny. But I think Manny's bat makes up for his lack of defense much more than Abreu's bat makes up for his d.
who is ILK?
Guy who has some connections within the Phillies....we think.
in other words hes you or me
yup its me
He's broken four or five Phillies stories he past 2 years, but he claimed his source was gone when Wade was outted, making all of this very sketchy.
I wonder if it was Ed Wade himself posting? That would be funny.
I remember he broke the Milton and Wagner trades on there way before anyone else did.
If it's Ed Wade, what does ILK stand for? Discuss.
ILK = 'ILuvKruk'
ILK is a poster on philliesphans.com who has broken the news on many Phillies moves before they happened, i.e. Milton, Wagner, Lieber, and others.
Today is the day. :paranoid
i dunno, i was optimistic earlier, but this has 'epic disappointment' written all over it.
the one thing i can't get my head around is the fact that anytime Boston, Baltimore, or the Phils sneezed in the direction of another team regarding thier big players ESPN and Comcast were all over it. if this deal is only a few prospects away from being done, why does no one have it?
Uh, can't Manny veto any trade anyway? Even if this 'gets done' it won't get done.
Agreed. It's kind of like Tejada. As soon as he got wind that the Phillies were talking about him, he rescinded his trade request. And he doesn't even play for a team that won a WS in the last 2 years.
Not that this is news, but Manny couldn't care less about winning anything.
Both Manny and Abreu can veto trades...so I'm not holding my breath.
This is from Mr. Excitement, Marcus Hayes...
QuoteLANCASTER, Pa. - Pat Gillick said he would continue to shop for pitching. Apparently, he meant it.
The new Phillies general manager said at a media luncheon here yesterday that a deal that would have brought the Phillies a No. 1 or No. 2 starter fell through yesterday morning because the other team backed out.
"They fell out," Gillick said. "Could the deal eventually happen? I'm not optimistic."
Gillick, as has been his policy, didn't name the other team or the players involved, but one of the piitchers they've pursued hardest this offseason has been Orioles lefthander Erik Bedard.
Essentially every deal for a top pitcher the Phillies have been involved with has included rightfielder Bobby Abreu.
Abreu would have to waive his no-trade clause, which the Phils have yet to ask him to do. Calls to Abreu's agent were not returned yesterday.
And so was squelched Gillick's latest attempt to fulfill his stated goal of putting a team on the field that will win at least five more games than the 88 games the 2005 version won - a task made all the more daunting considering the improvements made by the Mets.
Asked if he still considered the "Five More Wins" platform possible, Gillick said, "I do. It is realistic."
He allowed that the pitching staff isn't as good, with the loss of closer Billy Wagner, Ugueth Urbina and Vicente Padilla, but that even with the loss of Jim Thome and Kenny Lofton the Phils can get those five more wins.
Why?
"The position players might be the best in the division. As a team - defensively and offensively - I think they could be the best," Gillick said.
Better, said Gillick, than the Mets, who added Paul Lo Duca, Carlos Delgado and stole Wagner - moves that prompted Gillick to say, "Their club is the most improved in the division."
So, the Phils' lineup could be better?
"On paper, they're not," admitted Gillick, allowing that the likes of Carlos Beltran and Cliff Floyd might give the Mets an offensive advantage. But that's only half of the equation: "Defensively, I think we're a much better team than the Mets."
Remarkably, Gillick pointed to the right side of the infield - young offensive standouts Ryan Howard and Chase Utley - as being appreciably better than the Mets' duo of Delgado and Kaz Matsui.
Gillick also included Abreu in his evaluation, even citing Abreu having won his first Gold Glove after the 2005 season. Safe to say, though, that the suitors aren't after Abreu for his defense.
"When we talk with other teams about players, they want to know if he is available," manager Charlie Manuel said.
Such talks led to the Phillies asking for Cubs starter Mark Prior at the winter meetings, which the Cubs, according to several sources, briefly considered. Abreu also was the subject of trade talks for Orioles shortstop Miguel Tejada and Red Sox slugger Manny Ramirez, though both of those prospective deals quickly died.
Yesterday's faded inquiries were the latest in a series of talks that have included Abreu, who is not exactly a fan favorite despite his consistent offensive production - production that Gillick and Manuel are reluctant to lose, considering he is the crux of the Phillies' lineup.
"He's ideal for what we want," said Manuel, who will hit Abreu third in front of Pat Burrell, with Utley occasionally hitting fourth against a righthander. "[Abreu] hit a streak last year when he carried us."
Indeed, Abreu's scorching bat helped the Phillies go 15-13 after a 10-14 April put them in jeopardy of falling out of the race before the All-Star break. Abreu's mystifyingly poor July, followed by an injury-aided dropoff in September, didn't help his already-tarnished profile among the Phillies' fan base. Judging from call-in shows and e-mails, many of those fans wouldn't mind seeing him traded for less than the Phillies want.
Those fans shouldn't hold their breath. Gillick looks at Abreu's career .411 on-base percentage, .303 batting average, his average of 97 RBI and 31 steals since 2000 and he considers Abreu too precious to the lineup to lose for so little.
"Any time you think about somebody with those credentials, you've got to think about what it does to your team" to lose him, Gillick said.
For the time being, Abreu will remain the fulcrum of a team that, in its current composition, will need Gavin Floyd or Rob Tejeda to fill the fifth starter spot and will need Ryan Madson to occupy the setup role. Which means Manuel will have a lot of evaluation to do when pitchers and catcher report to spring training in 5 weeks.
"That's one of Charlie's strong points," Gillick said of the oft-criticized manager he inherited, though, "You might not get the fans or the media to believe it."
Then again, Manuel never has been opposed to trading any Phillie - even Thome, his protégé since Thome was drafted.
Moving Abreu would be easier had Gillick negotiated his extension in 2002 instead of fired GM Ed Wade.
Gillick said he does not believe in no-trade clauses, which, he asserted, players want in order to make sure they don't get traded to a loser. A high enough salary, he contended, essentially eliminates small-market (and, theoretically, less competitive) teams from the equation, anyway, essentially ensuring that a big-money player will be traded to big-market (and, theoretically, more competitive) teams.
Like Wade, however, Gillick doesn't like multiteam trades.
"I'd rather do the one-on-one. A three- or four-way, somebody always gets screwed," Gillick said. "Three ways - if you don't come out on the short end, you're fine."
Phillers
Hall of Fame third baseman Mike Schmidt, who flamed out as the manager of Class A Clearwater in 2004, will return to spring training for his fifth season as a special hitting instructor... Keep an eye on spring invitee Shawn Garrett, 27, an outfielder/first baseman who hit .295 with 17 homers and 82 RBI at Triple A Sacramento last season.
email thisprint thisreprint or license this
Hmm...Bedard is a nice pitcher but I wouldn't trade Bobby straight up for him. And Hayes says the Manny deal is dea but he's obviously not referring to this latest bout of rumors since the ILK one hasn't hit the media.
manny aint coming to philly
that thread over there is getting sad...
QuoteManny will be a Phillie
[ Goto pageGoto page: 1 ... 124, 125, 126 ] 1880 IloveKruk 141278
the red number is replies the blue number is views. wow.
Is that the Phillies board that takes themselves WAY too seriously?
oh yeah
I'm convinced this is all made up.
Guess they're saying now the mods over there changed ilk's password and emailed it to him to see if he was legit. Supposedly he was.
Well it is later in the week......and we've heard nothing of the sort.
seamheads make me sick
I'm sure, just like every other wannabe "inside" source, he will come up with some bogus excuse about why it's not happening, possibly even attempting to explain why we'll never hear publicly that it was even attempted.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on January 12, 2006, 01:14:52 PM
Is that the Phillies board that takes themselves WAY too seriously?
Go ahead and curse even mildly there. I dare you. Hell, I double-dog dare you.
:paranoid
Crap boobs crap.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 12, 2006, 01:59:39 PM
I'm sure, just like every other wannabe "inside" source, he will come up with some bogus excuse about why it's not happening, possibly even attempting to explain why we'll never hear publicly that it was even attempted.
Not saying I'm buying it, but his track record of calling stuff days before they happen is impressive. We'll see, don't know if he did post since the Mods changed his password.
if the name of the guy was iluvkruk...it was obviously either a hot dog vendor or a testicle collector. neither of which i would put much credence in when it comes to baseball news.
i guess it's a good thing that i don't put credence into what you put credence into
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000000XB9.01._PE52_.Creedence-Clearwater-Revival-Chronicle-Vol-1-The-20-Greatest-Hits._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
holla
Quote from: Sun_Mo on January 12, 2006, 02:17:45 PM
i guess it's a good thing that i don't put credence into what you put credence into
that would rip a hole in the universe
If this goes down, I say we build a bronze statue of Pat Gillick and place it where Robin Roberts was at CBP. Anybody who saw him pitch is almost dead or has Alzheimers, so there won't be any tears if he knock down the old farts statue.
i really hope the Cubs trade Mark Prior. When he's healthy, he's un-friggin believeable. That, and i'd love to see him out of that uniform so i could actually enjoy watching him pitch in another division.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 12, 2006, 02:30:31 PM
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000000XB9.01._PE52_.Creedence-Clearwater-Revival-Chronicle-Vol-1-The-20-Greatest-Hits._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
holla
Left a good job in the city
Workin' for the man every night and day
Haven't ever lost one minute of sleeping
Worried about the way things might have been
Been a lot of places down in memphis
I umped a lot of babes down in new orleans
Had a lot of shots at good times in the city
Till I hitched a ride on a river bout queen
A big wheel keeps on turnin'
Proud mary keeps on burnin', rollin', rollin'
Rollin' on a river
Rollin, rollin, rollin on a river
If you come down to the river
I betcha you're gonna find some people who live
You don't have to worry
'cause you have no money
People along the river are happy to give
I said a big wheel keeps on turnin'
Proud mary keeps on burnin', rollin', rollin'
Rollin' on a river
Rollin', rollin', rollin' on a river
From the mlb.com board regarding ILK:
QuoteHe actually used to be an advance scout in the Ed Wade regime, but has been since replaced by Gillick's friend from Toronto and Seattle -- I forget his name. However, ilovekruk still has contacts, including Ruben Amaro, Jr.and Arbuckle still in place -- so he isn't blowing smoke so to speak.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on January 12, 2006, 03:18:25 PM
From the mlb.com board regarding ILK:
QuoteHe actually used to be an advance scout in the Ed Wade regime, but has been since replaced by Gillick's friend from Toronto and Seattle -- I forget his name. However, ilovekruk still has contacts, including Ruben Amaro, Jr.and Arbuckle still in place -- so he isn't blowing smoke so to speak.
I still say he's full of kruk.
A Kruk of shtein?
* Rimshot *
The mere fact that this appears to be a load of shtein tells me ilovekruk is made up
New 'insider' from the Phils official board...enjoy :-D
QuoteThanks for the vote of confidence whomever posted that....
I have verified this with people I know, and yes Mike Costanzo is my first cousin. People can say what they will what would a Phillies 2nd round darft pick know about the inner-workings of the Phils front office, I respond -- he is slated to play 3B for this team in two years..... Once Nunez's contract is up, he will be the opening day 3B. In fact, he will start the season in 2006 at Clearwater and then be moved to Reading my mid-season (if all goes well)...
Regardless, I also am pretty close with Johnny Marz (we both are Central HS baseball Alumni) and I work with him at his indoor camp in South Philly at Murphy Recreation Center from time to time as I am a HS Varsity coach. Despite what some "intelligent" posters here may think, John has A LOT of contacts in baseball in general and not just with SOME of the Phillies people.
Anyway, in regard to ilovekruk's post, this is legitimate, and MAY be ironed out by tomorrow. There is a 72-hour window for these things b/c of contracts and such, and you're dealing with two VERY high profile players with BIG contracts and COMPLEX langauge. So it's not as easy as people would think/hope -- and also the agents will want to have their say. Nonething seems to be a deal-breaker right now, other than the exact amount of money to be exchanged b/c of the option years. The Phillies want 5 million per year for the life of Manny's deal, and the BoSox only want to giver 3 million -- that is why there is still haggling over the prospects.
As to the sanity of this all, you can debate it all you want, but the deal makes the BoSox better with Michaels in CF and potentially Tejada at SS (if Abreu is flipped, but is VERY unlikley)... Regardless, the BoSox covet OBP much like the A's and this deal clearly helps them in that regard. Secondly, from the Phils side of it -- Ramirez replaces Abreu's offense and
Clement fills a SP need. Gillick has said all along if he could not get a LHP
to fill out the rotation, he wants an accomplished RHP in the rotation and Madson is not it. He obviuosly goes to the set-up role, which he has already done.
Bottom line, that is why I don't get in on these rumor discussions too much, but this one was just too juicy to shy away from. Hope people feel better right now.... Just be patient. Good things come to those who wait.....
He lost me at Marzano having contacts
can someone blow up the internet in the next 72hrs?
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 12, 2006, 05:04:03 PM
can someone blow up the internet in the next 72hrs?
Bush is working on it, give it time.
Ha now a mod over there says a co worker logged onto his name and thats its a big hoax. :-D
Quote from: MDS on January 12, 2006, 05:26:52 PM
Ha now a mod over there says a co worker logged onto his name and thats its a big hoax. :-D
Just saw that, oh well, was fun while it lasted :-D
Once it was discovered that his password was easy to guess, I kinda figured it was a hoax. Ah well....
what was it...Kruk?
Wasn't a total loss, one of the Boston fans gave me a great recipe for Clam Chowder:
QuoteChowder recipe
Three 8-oz bottles of clam juice
One pound russet potatoes, peeled and cut into 1/2 inch chunks (resist the urge to use Yukon Gold potatoes)
Two tablespoons (1/4 stick) butter
Three slices bacon, finely chopped (I use thick, hammy deli bacon -- use six slices of bacon if you're using the thin, pre-packaged stuff)
Two cups chopped onions (about one large yellow onion)
Three stalks (about 1-1/4 cups) of celery with leaves, chopped
Five garlic cloves, minced
One bay leaf
1/4 cup all-purpose flour
Six 6-1/2 oz cans minced clams, drained, juices reserved (chopped clams are fine -- I use minced because Kris doesn't like large, rubbery clam chunks)
1-1/2 cups half-and-half
One teaspoon hot pepper sauce (we use Tapatío, but you might prefer Tabasco)
Optional: 1/2 teaspoon hickory smoke salt (hard-to-find, but great flavor!)
At the top of my recipe card I've written, in bold: NOTE: Prepare ingredients before starting! Experienced, or quick, cooks can ignore this advice. I'm neither experienced nor quick. If I don't prepare the ingredients before starting the chowder, it's a disaster.
Three 8-oz bottles of clam juice
One pound russet potatoes, peeled and cut into 1/2 inch chunks (resist the urge to use Yukon Gold potatoes)
Two tablespoons (1/4 stick) butter
Three slices bacon, finely chopped (I use thick, hammy deli bacon -- use six slices of bacon if you're using the thin, pre-packaged stuff)
Two cups chopped onions (about one large yellow onion)
Three stalks (about 1-1/4 cups) of celery with leaves, chopped
Five garlic cloves, minced
One bay leaf
1/4 cup all-purpose flour
Six 6-1/2 oz cans minced clams, drained, juices reserved (chopped clams are fine -- I use minced because Kris doesn't like large, rubbery clam chunks)
1-1/2 cups half-and-half
One teaspoon hot pepper sauce (we use Tapatío, but you might prefer Tabasco)
Optional: 1/2 teaspoon hickory smoke salt (hard-to-find, but great flavor!)
At the top of my recipe card I've written, in bold: NOTE: Prepare ingredients before starting! Experienced, or quick, cooks can ignore this advice. I'm neither experienced nor quick. If I don't prepare the ingredients before starting the chowder, it's a disaster.
Bring the bottled clam juice and potatoes to a boil in a medium saucepan over high heat. Reduce heat to medium-low. Cover and simmer until potatoes are tender (about ten minutes). Remove from heat.
Melt butter in heavy large pot over medium heat. Add bacon and cook until bacon begins to brown (about 8-10 minutes). Add onions, celery, garlic, and bay leaf. Sauté until vegetables soften, about six minutes.
Stir in flour and cook two minutes. Do not allow flour to brown.
Gradually whisk in reserved juices from clams. Add potato mixture, calms, half-and-half, hickory smoke salt, and hot pepper sauce. Simmer chowder to blend flavors, stirring frequently.
Season to taste with salt and pepper.
Chowder can be served after as few as ten minutes of simmering, or it can sit on the stove contentedly for hours
Quote from: MDS on January 12, 2006, 06:18:25 PM
what was it...Kruk?
I wasn't one of the ones that tried to hack him... :)
I told you all. Worship me.
:-D :'(
Oh well.
I'm kinda happy. I love watching Abreu play.
Maybe we should have started a Manny Karma thread. :paranoid
Thanks, Earl Hickey.
Didn't see it mentioned, but Myers avoided arbitration and will get $3.3M this season...
to celebrate, he gave up 5 hits
Wasn't a total loss, one of the Boston fans gave me a great recipe for Clam Chowder:
is it me or does that recipe not call for enough liquid/broth...only about five cups in the whole pot??...and that doesnt include reduction
igy wants some more white creamy stuff in his mouth
For those of you wondering where Ed Wade ended up:
QuoteLook for former Phils general manager Ed Wade to join the Padres soon as a consultant and major league scout. Wade will be working out of his Pennsylvania home.
So Wade will be evaluating talent... :-D
Speed never slups, San Diago. Speed never slumps.
Drinkin a little MD 20/20 last night, eh?
On Baseball | Abreu is hurt by rampant trade rumors, friends say
By Jim Salisbury
Inquirer Columnist
Each passing day this off-season seems to have brought another trade rumor involving Bobby Abreu.
And each one has apparently cut the Phillies' rightfielder a little deeper.
"I think he's really hurt," a friend of Abreu's who asked not to be named said the other day. "He feels rejected."
The rumors started right after the World Series. Abreu has been headed to Toronto, Boston, Houston, Chicago (Cubs), Los Angeles (Dodgers) and Baltimore.
If Manchester United had a top-of-the-rotation starter it was willing to deal, Abreu might be headed there, too.
By all accounts, new general manager Pat Gillick still has a bunch of lines in the water as he fishes for a significant starting pitcher. Abreu, a valuable offensive talent whose 291 times on base last season were topped only by MVPs Alex Rodriguezand Albert Pujols, is his best piece of bait.
But five weeks from now, when spring training begins, Abreu could be right back with the Phillies.
This could leave team officials having to deal with an unhappy camper. Don't worry: It's not Abreu's nature to be disruptive, so we're not talking about anything close to a T.O. scenario here. But if there's one thing we've learned about Abreu in his eight years here (besides the fact that he has trouble catching balls at the wall), it's that he's a moody guy.
So you have to wonder what state of mind he'll be in after hearing his name tossed about like an old rosin bag all winter.
Will these rumors - some of them baseless, some well-founded - cause him to sulk and bring down his production, which tailed off markedly in the second half last season?
Or will they motivate him to reach for the kind of monster season many think has been locked inside his bat for years?
Abreu will no doubt be asked questions like this when he reports to camp next month. For now, he's lying low, and attempts to reach him have been unsuccessful.
One thing is clear, though: People who know him well say the trade rumors have hurt him and left him feeling rejected.
"That's never been expressed to us," assistant general manager Ruben Amarosaid Friday. "If Bobby does feel that way, he shouldn't. All this is conjecture and rumor. The fact of the matter is, Bobby has a no-trade clause, and we've never approached him [about waiving it]. Bobby needs to know, and he does know, that he's one of our most important players."
Abreu was the Phillies' most important player in the first half of last season. He hit .307 with 18 home runs, 58 RBIs and a .428 on-base percentage. In the second half, he slipped to .260, 6, 44 and .376. Many observers believed his performance in the all-star home-run derby hurt his swing in the second half, but educated baseball eyes have since said that it looked as if Abreu wasn't as strong, particularly in the lower half of his body, in the second half. Down the stretch, he battled shoulder and thigh ailments but stayed in the lineup.
The Phillies have never confirmed that they have discussed Abreu in potential trades, but officials from other clubs have. And the Phils haven't just pursued pitching, which is their greatest need. They talked to Toronto about a deal for outfielder Vernon Wells early in the off-season and recently to Baltimore about a deal for infielder Miguel Tejada. Both would have involved Abreu.
The Phils have long had a policy of not commenting on potential or rumored deals. In Abreu's case, not saying anything gives them plausible deniability when they finally come face-to-face with him in spring training. Don't believe those goofy writers, Bobby. Nothing was going on. We love you, man.
Amaro has deep roots in Venezuela, Abreu's home country. The two have been teammates and remain close. Amaro believes Abreu "has been in the league long enough and is professional enough" not to let the rumors affect his play.
Still, Amaro was asked if it might be necessary to meet with Abreu early in camp, just to smooth everything out.
"Do we need to sit down and talk to him about this? Probably not," Amaro said. "Will we? We might."
That is, of course, if Abreu is still with the club. The deal with Manchester United appears dead, but there are rumblings out of Liverpool that something is going on.
You stay classy, Ed Wade.
Wah.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 15, 2006, 09:44:40 AM
Drinkin a little MD 20/20 last night, eh?
ive felt like total shtein since 11 last night. i got 2 hours of sleep cause i was throwin up and shteinting all night. good fun.
Sounds fun. :yay
STL Post-Dispatch (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/74ADF5B1726E1E2C862570F600249892?OpenDocument)
QuoteOpportunity knocks for Phillies' Howard
By Derrick Goold
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
01/15/2006
The basement walls of the Howard home in west St. Louis County still sport the bruises of a slugger's beginnings. It was down there that Ron Howard erected a tee, a soft-toss machine and a framed batting net - all to satisfy his son's hitting hunger and save the teen from plunking down $5 for six tokens at the local batting cage.
Pity the drywall.
Music on. Shoulders limber. Ryan Howard, then in his final years at Lafayette High, would cock his bat, aim to drill the ball so hard that it whipped through the overmatched net into the waiting wall, and crack!
Crack!
Crack!
The same sound would later capture a scout's attention for its "snap power," not for the head-snapping it caused by onlookers, but the sharp bark of ball hitting Howard's bat and soaring. The scout said, "Ryan's sound was different than anybody else's." His parents heard the echo early.
"You'd hear it all over the house," Ron said. "We thought it was a sweet sound."
With that sound as the catalyst, the drumbeat to his ascension, Ryan Howard swung his way from Lafayette star to college All-American to minor-league MVP to, this past summer, National League Rookie of the Year. On Monday during the 48th Annual St. Louis Baseball Writers Association of America dinner, the Philadelphia Phillies' first baseman will receive the Rookie of the Year Award, the third St. Louis-area native to win it and the first since 1950.
His is a story of pelted walls, but also of walls eclipsed. Word of his monster home runs precedes him. As do his coaches' stories of offensive binges, like the September push for the Phillies that included his 11 home runs and 27 RBIs in the crucible of a wild card race. Howard, 26, has been defined by such performances in the clutch, but also by recognizing and seizing such opportunities. Given an opening, Howard has yet to whiff. He said he was taught by his parents to practice, to be prepared, to pursue relentlessly.
To never utter the four-letter word his father literally outlawed:
Can't.
Their father "expected us and prepared us for the world, telling us, 'I will not allow you to be mediocre,'" said Ryan's older brother, Chris Howard, an associate athletic director at Louisiana State University. "The pressure we had in our home to succeed in our father's eyes, nothing can match that. Not the corporate world, not Major League Baseball. Nothing."
"My dad," Ryan Howard said, "sets the bar high for all of us."
Said Ron Howard: "Don't focus on the blockers, on the challenges, if you have a chance to be what you want to be, be the best, be the pinnacle. The door opens a little bit, you push it all the way open."
"Locked in"
After hitting a still school-record 17 career home runs at Lafayette High and graduating with his basketball-standout twin Corey in 1998, Howard found himself with several colleges courting him, but none offering what he sought. In the summer, he took another visit to Southwest Missouri State (now Missouri State). He felt right on campus, felt comfortable with the coach.
There was one catch.
"We had no money left," Bears coach Keith Guttin said last week. "I told his summer coach if I had any money, I'd be after him, I'd be offering it to him through the fence right now. . . . One thing about power, it's rare. It's hard to walk away from that kind of power. But we didn't have a (scholarship)."
What Guttin could offer was worth much more: An opportunity.
By Howard's coach's rule at Lafayette High, freshmen didn't play varsity, but the first sophomore day he could, Howard did, cranking two home runs and driving in a school-record seven RBIs. His father wouldn't allow the word "can't" and his kids didn't like hearing it. So, when colleges said he wouldn't play as a freshman, Howard looked elsewhere. Guttin said Howard would play as much as he earned.
With Howard and his parents Ron and Cheryl, Guttin then mapped out a promise that if Howard became a Bear there would be scholarships his sophomore, junior and senior years.
Howard went to work on winning at-bats first.
A rookie in a loaded lineup, Howard blasted 19 home runs that year, batted .355 with 66 RBIs, working his way into the cleanup spot and becoming a freshman All-American. Opportunity seized. The Bears visited Kansas and through the fence, KU law student Chris Howard reminded his brother that the Jayhawks didn't think he could start as a freshman.
Howard roped one over the fence.
"He's just like that," Chris Howard said. "As the challenge becomes bigger and bigger, Ryan just gets more and more locked in."
Consider this past summer. About an hour before the Phillies found out All-Star first baseman Jim Thome would have season-ending surgery, Howard, Thome's understudy, blasted his first career grand slam 453 feet and out of Dodger Stadium. As Philadelphia dueled for the wild card, Howard "wanted to be there, wanted to be the guy up there hitting when it mattered, wanted to get it done," said manager Charlie Manuel.
On Sept. 21, he entered the game in the eighth and in the 10th came up with the bases loaded, the score tied 6-6. Atlanta beckoned for a lefty. Howard hadn't hit lefties well and was called to the bench, where Manuel told him to relax, to calm down and: "I need you to hit one out because I'm out of batters."
Howard did for a 10-6 win. Opportunity crushed.
"Ryan," Chris said, "has a flair for the dramatic."
The natural
Ron Howard said he saw such a knack for hitting in a toddler Ryan, when he found the youngster watching baseball and mimicking the players by swinging a big red plastic bat. His sister, Karen, insists she started Ryan as a slugger, because it was, after all, her head he hit with the same big red plastic bat.
Jerry Lafferty, the Phillies' scout for Missouri and other Midwest states, had watched Howard since high school. He saw the "snap power" and "athletic flow" that told him Howard had "projectability." Lafferty was down in Springfield, Mo., to see other SMS players. He had them swinging wood bats and, when the upperclassmen were finished, asked Howard to take cuts.
"No offense to the other players there," Lafferty recalls, "but it was like, 'Boys step aside, little league practice is over and it's time for the big man to hit.' Ryan launched some monster shots, some monsters."
But in his junior year, Howard slumped.
He struck out a school-record 74 times in 2001, and many believed he slipped to the fifth round of that June's draft because of an off year. Lafferty encouraged the Phillies to nab him, told them Howard was a steal. In 2003, he hit 23 home runs, batted .304 and drove in 82 to win the Class A's league MVP. In 2004, he hit a franchise-record 37 home runs at Class AA Reading, and won that league's MVP.
"A lot of people, I think, gave up on me after my junior year," Howard said. "My first year in pro ball was all about me getting myself back on that track, just because a lot of people I felt backed off. It bothered me. I knew what I was capable of doing, and those first two years were about showing that."
With Thome injured, the door to the majors cracked in July, and as his dad had stressed, he pushed through. In the fashion a streaking hitter on a contending team grabs MVP attention, Howard took the Rookie of the Year Award ahead of full-season rookies with his late-season push. His 22 home runs led all rookies, 20 of his 31 September hits were for extra bases. His poise and his performance allowed the Phillies to trade Thome this winter.
Opportunity maximized.
Howard had whispered to his brother the award was a goal, and in November he dialed the man who wouldn't let him use the word "can't" to tell him he achieved it.
"Dad," Ryan said, "I'm changing my name to Roy."
"Roy? What do you mean?"
"R-O-Y. Rookie of the Year."
Eskin was on NBC10 and said he would have traded Abreu for Tejada, then Rollins for Clement/Arroyo ("both are better than Lieber") and Papelbon. He also said that if Abreu is really hurt by the trade rumors, then he needs to get over it, especially for what he's making. The Phillies have overrated him big time and he's not worth a #2 pitcher, let alone a #1. He also said that Manuel is an idiot if he thinks Gordon is the same caliber of closer as Wagner....
Thanks for the bozo update, BigEd. You have an opinion from shoulderpad Shawn you'd like to share now?
Nothing Eskin says about baseball should be paid any attention to. He hates Abreu and he knows nothing about baseball.
I think Abreu farged Eskins sister or something. Why else would he hate the guy so much? Still, even after Bowa asked him to throw Abreu under the bus....now Bowa is gone he's still railing on Bobby.
Quote from: MDS on January 16, 2006, 10:51:28 AM
I think Abreu farged Eskins sister or something. Why else would he hate the guy so much? Still, even after Bowa asked him to throw Abreu under the bus....now Bowa is gone he's still railing on Bobby.
He actually took her out for a nice seafood dinner and never called her again.
Quote from: stillupfront on January 16, 2006, 04:00:22 PM
Quote from: MDS on January 16, 2006, 10:51:28 AM
I think Abreu farged Eskins sister or something. Why else would he hate the guy so much? Still, even after Bowa asked him to throw Abreu under the bus....now Bowa is gone he's still railing on Bobby.
He actually took her out for a nice seafood dinner and never called her again.
Dorothy Mantooth is a saint. (I know its already played out but its my favorite line from the movie so I had to post it.)
Where did you get that joke, the toilet store?
Sounds like the Phils are going to sign Russell Branyan today. Joy....
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 17, 2006, 10:01:16 AM
Sounds like the Phils are going to sign Russell Branyan today. Joy....
he's ok.
funny, i traded bell for him in MVP 2005, i then got him to be NLCS MVP. 8)
Why is it that the Phillies always seem to pick up players from the dregs of MLB?
I mean, Milwaukee?!?
Come on.
:puke
BTW: Branyan struck out 80 times in 202 at-bats last season. EIGHTY!
Christ. :boom
He'd platoon with Bell, moving Nunez over to become the top backup to Utley and Rollins, which means a certain player associated with pies could be on his way out...
Quotewhich means a certain player associated with pies could be on his way out...
In that case, Branyan for President!
:-D
Oh sweet lord lets schedule the parade down Broad
I still can't get over this putrid off-season.
It started out great and has degenerated into the same old bullshtein from those clowns.
Branyan was on one of my fantasy teams briefly a few years back.
That fantasy team sucked.
Michaels avoids arbitration, signs $1.5M one-year deal (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060117&content_id=1296429&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi)
Still no links on Branyan, so nothing is definite on that...
it was some dude who said he heard something for a person he knows. in other words, its a crock of shtein.
Wow. This offseason is so bad, people are making up rumors about the team getting Russell Branyan.
Wow.
Branyan = white Pedro Cerrano
He K's too damn much. But when someone accidentally throws him a heater, he kills it.
Yes.
Now go get him a live chicken and some rum.
Hes hitting .098 as a PH the last 3 years.
Excellent. He'll fit right in.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 17, 2006, 02:34:44 PM
Excellent. He'll fit right in.
I was going to say... that almost has to rival the Phillies as a team over the last few years.
2005: .233
2004: .240
2003: .244
3 year average= .239
Where is your faith guys? :-D
I would prefer him over MDS's boy Toe-mas though.
Gillick is on WPEN now and said that there's no interest in Branyan...
and no interest in this season.
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 17, 2006, 05:16:40 PM
Gillick is on WPEN now and said that there's no interest in Branyan...
What? So we don't get Jobu?
:boom :boom :boom :boom :boom :boom :boom :boom :boom
Another falty reporting job by Ed :(
Quote from: MDS on January 17, 2006, 05:30:53 PM
Another falty reporting job by Ed :(
Actually it was Phillyforever. At this point PP has lost ALL credibility. :-D
Quote from: MDS on January 17, 2006, 05:30:53 PM
Another falty reporting job by Ed :(
Another faulty spelling job by the collar-popper :(
1 year of college tuition well spent.
Look how many spelling errors have I made over the years? I'm tired of coming up with responses for my own incompetence.
Quote from: MDS on January 17, 2006, 06:09:08 PM
Look how many spelling errors have I made over the years? I'm tired of coming up with responses for my own incompetence.
There's a punctuation error there, son.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 17, 2006, 06:28:41 PM
Quote from: MDS on January 17, 2006, 06:09:08 PM
Look how many spelling errors have I made over the years? I'm tired of coming up with responses for my own incompetence.
There's a punctuation error there, son.
Either that or he forgot to put a comma or period between Look and how. Regardless, he needs to spend a little more of mom and dad's money on getting edumacated and a little less on collar popping.
Yea I'm not sure how that got in there.
Is there anything besides basketball and violent crime at which Temple is better than Penn State?
Ummm......location, I guess. Who the hell wants to be up in the mountains? I'm right in Philly, grant it, it's the zesty part. But it's a few subway stops/10 minute drive to good stuff.
Good point. Although, "up in the mountains" there are also 20,000 chicks from which to choose.
Quote from: MDS on January 17, 2006, 06:41:38 PM
Ummm......location, I guess. Who the hell wants to be up in the mountains? I'm right in Philly, grant it, it's the zesty part. But it's a few subway stops/10 minute drive to good stuff.
You're one lucky dude.
Granted, you're an idiot. But still lucky for being able to go to school in the city.
Quote from: MDS on January 17, 2006, 06:09:08 PM
Look how many spelling errors have I made over the years? I'm tired of coming up with responses for my own incompetence.
awsome
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 17, 2006, 06:45:28 PM
Quote from: MDS on January 17, 2006, 06:41:38 PM
Ummm......location, I guess. Who the hell wants to be up in the mountains? I'm right in Philly, grant it, it's the zesty part. But it's a few subway stops/10 minute drive to good stuff.
You're one lucky dude. Granted, you're an idiot. But still lucky for being able to go to school in the city.
were all lucky to be in the positions we are.
Article on JRoll's streak going into the season (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=2291602)
QuoteHot ticket? Phils raise midseason rates
By Jim Salisbury
Inquirer Staff Writer
The Phillies are raising ticket prices for 45 of their 81 home games this season.
In becoming the latest major-league team to use variable pricing, the club announced yesterday that the price hike would apply to games played from May 19 to Aug. 20.
Tickets for home games played before May 19 and after Aug. 20 will remain at 2005 prices.
The increase applies to individual game tickets, which will go on sale Feb. 22. The price of season tickets and multigame packages has not been raised.
"The variable pricing is not based on the teams that are coming in," said Richard Deats, the club's vice president of ticket operations. "It's the time of the season when baseball is becoming more attractive and when demand is the greatest.
"We're sensitive to raising ticket prices. We agonize over this. It's not an easy thing, paying the bills and keeping seats affordable. We thought this was a fair way to do it."
Tickets for the 45 games from May 19 to Aug. 20 will cost $16 to $44. The 36 other home games will remain $15 to $40. The Phils will continue to discount up to 5,000 tickets by $3 to $6 on game day, depending on availability.
The Phillies will play 24 of their first 35 games at home, all at 2005 prices. The price increase kicks in just as the weather warms and the Boston Red Sox come to town on May 19. The New York Mets will visit for seven games and the New York Yankees for three during the time of premium pricing.
According to Deats, every National League East team uses some type of variable pricing, depending on premium dates or opponents.
Deats said sales of season-ticket packages are slightly ahead of where they were last year. He said he doesn't expect a significant drop or increase from last year's season-ticket base of 17,500.
Group sales begin Wednesday. The Phillies' ticket office can be reached at 215-463-1000.
after this offseason, they have the balls to do this? typical Phillies.
This is an awful move. There is such a small price difference in the raise, it's not really worth to go through all the negative PR. If you're gonna raise prices, raise prices. It's an extra $4 bucks or something. Big woop, huge difference. It's negative PR for a small price increase. Not worth it. Idiot Phillies.
what they need to do is put a zip code block on ticket sales to mets yankees and red sox games to limit the amount of visiting fans that come in for those games...its absolutely embarrassing
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 20, 2006, 09:32:22 AM
what they need to do is put a zip code block on ticket sales to mets yankees and red sox games to limit the amount of visiting fans that come in for those games...its absolutely embarrassing
Do you remember how many Phillies fans were at Shea and Fenway a couple of years ago? Fenway was overtaken by Phillies fans...and Shea, when empty because of the zesty Mets, had ONLY Phillies fans there.
i go to shea every year and was at fenway for the saturday game
phillie fans in shea for a weekend game dont come close to matching mets fans in philly for a wednesday night game...shea is a pain in the ass to get to thus it keeps fans away...
we had a good turnout in fenway but it still didnt match what boston did here last year...that was the worst ive ever seen in any sport in any city
We were at one of the Boston games too.
If our team won the WS after that many years, I'd travel all over the place to see them play too. If they came here again this year (Sox), there would be 1/4 the fans here to see them play.
trade the Phillies for Tomlinson.
thats not entirely true...the red sox fans took over the vet as well...anyway i dont care the reason for it...you can put a big dent in it by not selling to new england zip codes
yeah but then they are only putting a dent in their profit. I dont believe the Phillies actually care what teams the fans are rooting for in the seats, they just care aboue selling the tickets.
then lift the block a month before the game...phils fans would sell out a weekend red sox or yankee series...but if they didnt then open the tickets up to everyone when and if the phils fans proved they cant sell it on their own
plus youd also have philly area transplanted visting fans buying the tickets
Quote from: MURP on January 20, 2006, 09:47:45 AM
yeah but then they are only putting a dent in their profit. I dont believe the Phillies actually care what teams the fans are rooting for in the seats, they just care aboue selling the tickets.
exactly.
a shut out is a shut out. they'd play 81 games vs the red sox if they thought it would bring 81 sell outs.
it's a shtein organization that doesnt care about the fans...or worse yet, doesnt even pretend to.
i guess im saying they probably dont care in the first place. why even put the effort into blocking and unblocking and whatever if you dont care anyway.
agreed with that
Quote from: MURP on January 20, 2006, 09:40:54 AM
trade the Phillies for Tomlinson.
Now we're getting somewhere.
supposedly Utley is on DNL right now with a popped collar
Quote from: Sun_Mo on January 20, 2006, 05:11:39 PM
supposedly Utley is on DNL right now with a popped collar
MDS just came.
Why are you always talking about jizz?
Anyone else see Padres Super Scout Ed Wade on CSN? They showed him at a retirement ceremony for MDS'sU baseball coach. Wade spoke because he is a Temple Alum. Anyways he was up there making fun of himself and the firedwade.com site. What a loser.
Jayson Stark on ESPN.com:
QuoteFive seasons have roared by since a pitcher named Curt Schilling talked his way out of Philadelphia.
Since then, Schilling has won 20 games in a season three times. No Phillies pitcher has done it any times. Schilling also has won seven postseason games since then -- while no Phillie has thrown a postseason inning.
So from the day Pat Gillick arrived in Philadelphia as the new GM, he has made it clear exactly what the Phillies need, and exactly what he'd be shopping for -- an ace. A real ace. A Schilling-esque ace. A guy, he says, "who can strike people out ... who can stop a losing streak."
Now, with just a few weeks left before spring training, he's still rolling his shopping cart up and down those offseason aisles. But Gillick still hasn't found what he's looking for.
Using Bobby Abreu as his prime currency, Gillick has spent the winter chasing an ace collection that included Barry Zito, Jason Schmidt, Carlos Zambrano, Mark Prior, Javier Vazquez, Brad Penny, Derek Lowe, Erik Bedard and, more recently, any and every starter on the White Sox roster.
Well, it's a hell of a shopping list, anyway. But not one pitcher in that crowd went anywhere this winter -- except for Vazquez, who put the Phillies on his no-trade list. In fact, not one starting pitcher who won more than 15 games changed teams anywhere in this entire offseason, either by trade or free agency.
So if you're just going by the principle that it's tough to buy what isn't on the shelves, it's been a rough winter to go ace-hunting.
But that doesn't get the Phillies any closer to ending that 12-year playoff drought. And it's no consolation to a GM who isn't interested in any five-year renovation plans.
Gillick stunned the press corps and fans of Philadelphia the other day by announcing, bluntly, that he's "not satisfied" with the job he's done this winter. Then he topped that lightning bolt by uttering words you almost never hear a GM utter -- that his team, as its pitching staff is constructed right now, isn't good enough to win its division.
In some towns, remarks like that would get the GM fired. In Philadelphia, it actually won Gillick rave reviews from a fan base tired of hearing their favorite mutt was a threat to run off with the gold medal at the Westminster Dog Show.
But that isn't the kind of winning this GM is interested in. So he hasn't torn up that shopping list. And he won't.
The latest buzz is that Gillick has been talking to the White Sox about swapping Abreu for one of their "excess" starters. But the White Sox don't want to take on money. They're not interested in moving Mark Buehrle or Freddy Garcia. And Jon Garland and Jose Contreras don't quite fit the mold of pitcher the Phillies want back for Abreu.
So the Phillies also are attempting to move outfielder Jason Michaels for an eighth-inning setup man. (Michaels to Cleveland for Rafael Betancourt, David Riske or Arthur Rhodes apparently has been bounced around, without success.) And if that doesn't fly, a package of pitcher Robinson Tejeda and A-ball prospects is another option.
Adding a setup arm would free Ryan Madson to head for the rotation, where he went 59-34 in the minor leagues and started both the Double-A and Triple-A All-Star games. But as good as Madson could be, he's closer to Steve Trachsel than Pedro Martinez.
So Gillick now talks about making a deal in March. Or even July. For now, there are worse Opening Day options than starting Jon Lieber -- a pitcher who won more games last year (17) than any other 2004-'05 free agent. But Pat Gillick wants to get him help.
And his tenure in his new town might well be judged by whether he succeeds.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 21, 2006, 08:29:41 AM
Jayson Stark on ESPN.com:
QuoteGillick stunned the press corps and fans of Philadelphia the other day by announcing, bluntly, that he's "not satisfied" with the job he's done this winter. Then he topped that lightning bolt by uttering words you almost never hear a GM utter -- that his team, as its pitching staff is constructed right now, isn't good enough to win its division.
At least Gillick can acknowledge that we're not stupid enough to believe the party line, like Ed Wade was apparently too stupid or too arrogant (or both) to do...
This team will, as constituted, finish fourth, unless Dontrelle Willis has a Carlton vintage 1972 season- then they'll finish last.
except for Vazquez, who put the Phillies on his no-trade list
thats says it all about where this franchise is right now...a career below .500 pitcher puts the phils on his no trade list...i mean who the hell is javier vasquez to be putting any teams on a no trade list...he should just be happy to be in the majors...embarrassing
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 21, 2006, 09:44:56 AM
except for Vazquez, who put the Phillies on his no-trade list
thats says it all about where this franchise is right now...a career below .500 pitcher puts the phils on his no trade list...i mean who the hell is javier vasquez to be putting any teams on a no trade list...he should just be happy to be in the majors...embarrassing
Unfortunately, the franchise has been there for years.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 21, 2006, 08:09:46 AM
Anyone else see Padres Super Scout Ed Wade on CSN? They showed him at a retirement ceremony for MDS'sU baseball coach. Wade spoke because he is a Temple Alum. Anyways he was up there making fun of himself and the firedwade.com site. What a loser.
I knew our president is retiring, but I had no clue we even had a baseball coach. I've seen the team before, they apparantley all live in a house together.
But what a dork Wade is. I can't believe he's still showing his face around town.
Rumor has it Boston is getting Coco Crisp, and were trading Michaels to Cleveland for either Rafael Bentecourt or Arthur Rhodes.
World Series, here we come.
Rhodes would be nice if he's still got anything left. He'd replace Rheal Bad Cormier as the top LH guy. Well, we have Fultz too, but I want to see him duplicate last year first before I think he's any good.
If they trade Cop Killa then that dude they got on waivers from ARZ, Josh Kroeger, could be the 5th OF.
Just saw this on ESPN's BottomLine...
QuoteThe Boston Red Sox are nearing completion on deals that would bring them Cleveland Indians outfielder Coco Crisp and free agent shortstop Alex Gonzalez, according to published reports.
The Boston Herald, citing unnamed baseball sources, reported that the Red Sox and Indians had agreed in principle on a deal that would send Crisp to Boston along with a swap of prospects.
The Boston Globe, also citing multiple major league sources, reported the team was still working on a deal for Crisp as well as a free-agent deal with Gonzalez, formerly of the Florida Marlins. Both newspapers said the Red Sox would include third-base prospect Andy Marte, who was acquired from the Atlanta Braves in the Edgar Renteria trade, as well as reliever Guillermo Mota.
The Herald reported the deal hinged on the Indians' ability to acquire another outfielder, possibly in a trade for the Phillies' Jason Michaels or through signing free agent Jeff DaVanon, formerly of the Angels
They have dealt Crisp to the BoSox for Marte and Mota. So that opens up the door for JMike to go to Cleveland.
QuoteAccording to baseball sources, the Red Sox and Cleveland Indians have agreed in principle on a deal that will bring outfielder Crisp to the Sox in a multi-player trade. The deal was agreed upon several days ago under the condition that Cleveland be able to acquire another outfielder to replace Crisp, presumably Jason Michaels from the Philadelphia Phillies.
There was some indication that the Phillies and Indians were hoping to complete the deal for Michaels as soon as last night. Cleveland was believed to be sending one of two relievers - left-hander Arthur Rhodes or right-hander Rafael Betancourt - to the Phillies in exchange for Michaels.
From the Boston Herald...
Betancourt is another guy who tested positive for roids last year. But after looking over his and Rhodes numbers I would prefer the roid monkey. Him and Ryan Franklin can scope out the dealers in Philly now.
Only thing about this is now if Abreu is traded, we need an outfielder in return. Michaels could have been a very effective bat off the bench/spot starter against LHP, but I suppose the bullpen sucks ass and this move should make it a bit better.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 22, 2006, 12:25:33 PM
QuoteAccording to baseball sources, the Red Sox and Cleveland Indians have agreed in principle on a deal that will bring outfielder Crisp to the Sox in a multi-player trade. The deal was agreed upon several days ago under the condition that Cleveland be able to acquire another outfielder to replace Crisp, presumably Jason Michaels from the Philadelphia Phillies.
There was some indication that the Phillies and Indians were hoping to complete the deal for Michaels as soon as last night. Cleveland was believed to be sending one of two relievers - left-hander Arthur Rhodes or right-hander Rafael Betancourt - to the Phillies in exchange for Michaels.
From the Boston Herald...
Betancourt is another guy who tested positive for roids last year. But after looking over his and Rhodes numbers I would prefer the roid monkey. Him and Ryan Franklin can scope out the dealers in Philly now.
Maybe Gillick is using the "if you can't beat them, beat them up philosophy..."
Cleveland gave Philly their pick of either Betancourt or Rhodes.. Rhodes who was injured last season or Betancourt who was caught with steriods.. If Cleveland does not sign DaVanon, whom the Mets are looking at, they will try and pull the trade with Philly to replace Crisp
Cleve would get Marte who projects as a David Wright type player
Am I the only one who thinks Michaels would be of more use than either of these relievers?
They have Shane Victorino who they need to give some time to. Now that they no longer have a platoon in CF they have no reason to use 4 OF's like they did last year other than to PH and spot starts.
And they have 2 good young players in the minors who could be ready soon. Plus the guy they got on waivers from ARZ. Plus Victorino.
They have a greater need for a good RP right now.
Gimme Betancourt.
Gooooo roid-monkeys!
Franklin sucks. It wouldn't shock me if he got cut.
Quote from: MDS on January 22, 2006, 02:55:50 PM
Franklin sucks. It wouldn't shock me if he got cut.
His contract isn't guaranteed? I thought it was.
Any new ILK rumors? :P
Supposedly Betancourt isn't available, so it's Mota or Rhodes. bleh... :P
Phils asked about Riske and were turned down
the phils also asked to be allowed to participate this year.
mlb is reviewing the request.
If we can't get the roid monkey...get Mota.
Link (http://www.cleveland.com/newslogs/plaindealer/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_plaindealer/archives/2006_01.html#106958)
QuoteDepending on how right-hander Guillermo Mota's physical goes, Coco Crisp could be Boston's new center fielder sometime this week.The Indians and Boston, according to a major league source, are considering a six-player trade that would send Crisp and two low-level minor leaguers to Boston for third base prospect Andy Marte, Mota and another a minor league pitcher. The Indians would then trade Mota to Philadelphia for outfielder Jason Michaels.There's also a chance that the Indians could keep Mota, if he passes his physical, and send David Riske or Arthur Rhodes to the Phillies. If Mota doesn't pass the Indians and Phillies physical, the three-team deal could be scrubbed
enough with these sharades, either do it or dont do it
it appears if the deal goes down, the Phillies want Arthur Rhodes in return. :P
Arthur Rhodes is an excellent guy out of the bullpen.
This is 1999, right?
Rhodes in the 8th
Gordon in the 9th
GET ROB DIBBLE :D
jeff parrett in the 7th?
:-D
saw today in espn mag that wes helms declined bench offers from the phils and indians in favor of competing for the first base job in florida.
one thing ill give gillick credit for are his attempts to faze tomas perez out.
I wonder if Bedrosian is available. If not, they may have to pursue Kent Tekulve or Don Carman.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 23, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
Arthur Rhodes is an excellent guy out of the bullpen.
This is 1999, right?
:-D That's what I was thinking. Last I remember hearing him being any good was a few years back when he was with Seattle.
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 23, 2006, 04:11:18 PM
jeff parrett in the 7th?
Nice Jeff Parrett reference.
He actually won 12 games for them in '89. Then he was such a legend that they brought him back in '96.
Bring back Savin' Joe Boever and his palmball.
I wonder what old Heathcliff Slocumb is up to...
I dunno, but since Goose Gossage isn't in the HOF yet, maybe he can be lured out of retirement. If not, then I suggest a strong push for Oil Can Boyd or Lee Smith.
How about Jeff Brantley and Mark Leiter? Awsome.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 23, 2006, 07:21:05 PM
I dunno, but since Goose Gossage isn't in the HOF yet, maybe he can be lured out of retirement. If not, then I suggest a strong push for Oil Can Boyd or Lee Smith.
Isn't Oil Can dead?
I'd like to punch Jeff Brantley. He sucks on ESPN. He wears a semi-mullet too.
Oil Can was pitching in independant leagues this past year. :-D
(http://espn.starwave.com/media/mlb/2005/0525/photo/a_boyd_il.jpg)
GET OIL CAN!!!!
Quote from: bobbyinlondon on January 23, 2006, 07:46:44 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 23, 2006, 07:21:05 PM
I dunno, but since Goose Gossage isn't in the HOF yet, maybe he can be lured out of retirement. If not, then I suggest a strong push for Oil Can Boyd or Lee Smith.
Isn't Oil Can dead?
If so, he'd still be better than Cormier.
I once won a game as a pitcher in 6th grade. Sign me.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 23, 2006, 08:59:01 PM
I once won a game as a pitcher in 6th grade. Sign me.
I once hit four batters in a row in 6th grade. For some reason, it was my last outing as a pitcher.
in a 7 month span, i struck out ryan luzinski in the 5th inning of a high school baseball game...and was also knocked unconsious by him in a football game.
that is 100% true
Randy Miller says the Michaels/Rhodes trade is a done deal. Yay Gillick, what a move.
Quote from: MDS on January 24, 2006, 07:52:13 AM
Randy Miller says the Michaels/Rhodes trade is a done deal. Yay Gillick, what a move.
stop sounding like one of those queers at PhilliesPhans
Yankees don't want Piazza, but..... (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/385342p-327017c.html)
QuoteAccording to sources, Piazza, who hit .251 with 19 homers and 62 RBI with the Mets last year, has minimal offers from the Padres, Phillies and Indians to play a reserve role, but none of them are anywhere near his believed asking price of $7 million-$8 million a year.
Newsday article (http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-sppiazza244599648jan24,0,4976284.story?coll=ny-sports-print)
QuoteThe Phillies could be another surprise team in the mix for the 37-year-old...
.
.
The interest of the Phillies and at least one other NL team corroborates Lozano's original assertion from early this offseason that multiple NL teams have interest in Piazza as a catcher.
Mike Piazza?
Oh, my.
:-\
Is Piazza a better backup than Sal Fasano?
Added incentive for Piazza to be able to check in on the day-to-day at his Honda dealership.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 24, 2006, 10:51:21 AM
Is Piazza a better backup than Sal Fasano?
Added incentive for Piazza to be able to check in on the day-to-day at his Honda dealership.
He's better than Loserthal with one arm tied behind his back. Which he'd probably dig, incidentally.
Someone I know was working at a country club waiting tables a few years ago, I think Piazza is a co-owner or something, and his table had about a $200 tab. He paid it and left a $5 tip. And this was right after he signed a huge deal. I've hated him ever since.
I'd rather have Piazza starting over Loserthal, farg all this backup bullshtein. He could also sub in for Howard at first every now and then.
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 24, 2006, 10:51:21 AM
Is Piazza a better backup than Sal Fasano?
Added incentive for Piazza to be able to check in on the day-to-day at his Honda dealership.
And his zesty county club Bellewood.
QuoteSources: Phillies, Piazza have preliminary talks
By Jayson Stark
ESPN.com
The Phillies have shown interest in free-agent catcher Mike Piazza over the last few days.
Discussions between the team and Piazza's agents, the Beverly Hills Sports Council, have been "very preliminary," according to one source, and haven't specifically addressed money or Piazza's role. But Piazza could fit as a complement to Mike Lieberthal, who some of the club's decision-makers feel would be best off playing only about four days a week.
The Phillies also need to settle on a right-handed bat to play first base and give Ryan Howard days off against left-handed pitching. Piazza once had the Phillies on his no-trade list, but he is said to be interested.
Toronto, San Diego, Baltimore and Anaheim also are thought to have mild interest in Piazza. And his agents talked with the Yankees recently about a job as a backup catcher and part-time DH.
What about Sal Fasano!?!
late-inning defensive replacement?
Eskin just said Mota failed his physical so the deal is off...... :-D
...which means we can trade Michaels to Boston and get Andy Marte :evil
According to CSN:
-- Michaels is being shopped to Cleveland or Boston before the Crisp deal is revived, and at this point it's not a matter of will he be traded, but when and where
-- Victorino will be the top backup OF
-- Another OF will be signed before spring training
-- Piazza is telling people that he'll sign with an American League team
Quotephiguest:
10:59 am Pat Gillick: Hi everybody. I'm happy to be part of this chat today. So, let's get right to it.
Base_Ball_2:
10:59 am Is there still time for the Phillies to make a big trade?
phiguest:
11:00 am Gilick: There's still over 60 days to go before Opening Day and we believe we can still make a trade. I can't predict how big the trade would be, but I feel confident that there will be one prior to the opening of the season.
Base_Ball:
11:00 am Have you talked to Jeff Weaver about becoming a Phillie?
phiguest:
11:00 am Gillick: We have no interest in Jeff Weaver.
greatphan:
11:00 am Do you still envision briging in a top starter and upgrading the bullpen? Dom , Richmond VA.
phiguest:
11:01 am Gillick: Our goal is to acquire a top of the rotation starter and we'll continue with this challenge throughout the season.
Matt_Suki:
11:01 am Hi Pat, what does Ryan Franklin bring to the table that a pitcher like Cole Hamels or another young arm can't give you?
phiguest:
11:02 am Gillick: 600 innings over the past 3 seasons. So, basically, experience and a healthy arm. We have to make certain that Cole is completely healthy before we introduce him to the major leagues.
Base_Ball_2:
11:02 am do you think that j roll will break joe dimmagio's hitting steak?
phiguest:
11:02 am Gillick: I have my fingers and toes crossed that he will! It would be amazing since he has had the winter to think about the streak and if continued and broke the record it would be like calling four timeouts prior to kicking a game-winning field goal or free throw.
Base_Ball_3:
11:03 am Hello Pat, with the season coming up what is a reasonable goal for the Phillies this year?
phiguest:
11:03 am Gillick: 90 wins plus
Matt_Suki:
11:03 am Do you feel you have the foundation in place to build a winner with the phillies club?
phiguest:
11:04 am Yes, we have a strong nucleus on the field with Utley, Rollins, Howard, Burrell, Abreu, etc...
briguy423:
11:05 am How does Philadelphia, thus far, compare to your other GM jobs?
phiguest:
11:05 am Gillick: It's an interesting challenge.
Base_Ball_4:
11:05 am Pat, will the Phillies carry both Tomas Perez and Abraham Nunez on the 25-man roster?
phiguest:
11:06 am Gillick: Because of double-switches and injuries, it's always necessary to carry at least two spare infielders.
Base_Ball:
11:06 am Are reports that you have talked to Mike Piazza true, and if so, what would his role for the team be?
phiguest:
11:06 am Gillick: Mike Lieberthal is our everyday catcher and Piazza could fill a number of backup roles for us.
Base_Ball_3:
11:06 am Pat, if the season started today, who are our five starters
phiguest:
11:06 am Gillick: Lieber, Lidle, Myers, Madson and Franklin.
Base_Ball_2:
11:07 am I feel that Kenny Lofton was a great center fielder and we should have kept him. But instead we trade Jim Thome for Aaron Rowand who is probably going to be as good as Kenny was. Why didn't we keep Kenny and trade Thome for a position that we really need?
phiguest:
11:07 am Gillick: In all due respect, we have a difference of opinion on the ability of Kenny Lofton. :-D
phitinfillsin2006:
11:07 am Is there any way we can trade Bell and Liberthal and get anything in return?
phiguest:
11:08 am Gillick: At this point, MIke will probably catch 120-130 games and we are hopeful that David will return to his production of 2004.
Andrew_Chong:
11:08 am what are the chances of the Phillies signing Mike Piazza?
phiguest:
11:08 am Gillick: We have no comment on rumors.
Matt_Suki:
11:08 am Do you feel that you have the Minor League prospects it takes to land an ace or effective no. 2 pitcher?
phiguest:
11:09 am Gillick: Yes, but we'd be reluctant to give up our better prospects prior to our evalution in spring training this year.
Base_Ball_3:
11:10 am Pat, are the Phillies a world series team yet?
phiguest:
11:10 am Gillick: We are a work in progress.
Matt_Suki:
11:11 am Does cole hamels have a chance to make the club out of spring training?
phiguest:
11:11 am Gillick: No. He will probably begin the season at either Reading or Scranton.
Matt_Suki:
11:11 am When you first took of this job you mentioned that you need to find a way to gain 5 more wins. Do you feel with the subtraction of wagner and the addition of franklin,gordon and rowand is enough?
phiguest:
11:12 am Gillick: We probably have not added five more wins yet.
Matt_Suki:
11:12 am Are you comfortable with the future of third base and catcher in this organization?
phiguest:
11:12 am Gillick: I can't comment until I've seen our minor leaguers in spring training.
Andrew_Chong:
11:12 am Do the Phillies have any interest in Jeff Weaver, Josh Fogg, or Kevin Brown?
phiguest:
11:12 am Gillick: We have no interest in any of them.
Base_Ball_3:
11:13 am Pat who do you think will have a breakout year?
phiguest:
11:13 am Gillick: Brett Myers
Base_Ball_3:
11:13 am Pat, what do you expect from Ryan Franklin?
phiguest:
11:13 am Gillick: 10-12 wins
Ty_Christian:
11:14 am Are there any middle-relief pitchers you are still looking at possibly signing in the next few weeks?
phiguest:
11:14 am Gillick: We're looking for starters or back-end, rather than middle relievers.
Base_Ball_3:
11:15 am What can we expect from Tom Gordon?
phiguest:
11:15 am Gillick: 40 saves
Quoteunclemilty:
11:16 am Mr. Gillick, Thanks for the time. Given the inconsitent performance of relief pitchers from season to season, would it be more wise to stockpile numerous options instead of high priced veterans?
phiguest:
11:16 am Gillick: That is exactly what we've tried to do in the last three months. Keep players on short contracts with the exception of Tom Gordon.
Base_Ball_3:
11:17 am Who is our Ace?
phiguest:
11:17 am Gillick: Jon Lieber
Base_Ball_3:
11:17 am Pat, who is our starting third basemen?
phiguest:
11:17 am Gillick: David Bell
Chris_Springer:
11:17 am Pat, appreciate your efforts and candidness so far! Why not offer to restructure Wolf's deal, less money this year but add on one or two years?
phiguest:
11:18 am Gillick: Until Randy proves that he is healthy, I believe it is a poor decision to commit dollars.
Base_Ball_3:
11:18 am Do you think Barry Zito is a possibility?
phiguest:
11:18 am Gillick: No
Ty_Christian:
11:19 am What are your feelings on the World Baseball Classic, and having several Phillies players involved?
phiguest:
11:19 am Gillick: We're excited and very supportive of the WBC and, in fact, on the provisional rosters, we have a total of 20 players.
unclemilty:
11:19 am Mr. Gillick, thanks for the time. Russ Branyan may have been an ideal platoon partner for David Bell. Was Branyan "on your radar" at any point?
phiguest:
11:20 am Gillick: Yes, but our manager, Charlie Manuel, had Branyan in Cleveland and felt with the number of strikeouts we have at the moment that adding another 100 would not be the way to go.
Base_Ball_3:
11:20 am What player is the best available player the Phillies are interested in?
phiguest:
11:21 am Gillick: We can't comment and it wouldn't be prudent for us to that anyway.
Ty_Christian:
11:21 am Why did the Phillies not try and get Wade Miller to help with their pitching staff, he came at a relatively inexpensive asking price?
phiguest:
11:21 am Gillick: We were advised by our medical team not to sign Wade Miller.
Christopher_Huling:
11:22 am What will Carlos Ruiz's role with the team be this year?
phiguest:
11:22 am Gillick: Ruiz will be competing for the backup catcher's position in spring training and if he is not successful will be playing the season at Scranton.
phillsphan4life:
11:23 am Do you have any trick up your sleeve when it comes to trades?
phiguest:
11:23 am Gillick: Many
barryemt101943:
11:23 am What is Randy Wolf's status?
phiguest:
11:23 am Gillick: Randy should be back between the 15th of June and 1st of July.
jkkingjd:
11:23 am Do you have any interest in talking to A's about Barry Zito?
phiguest:
11:23 am Gillick: We can't comment on rumors.
carneson:
11:23 am Is Jose Contreras somebody you are considering?
phiguest:
11:24 am Gillick: Again, we can't comment on rumors.
mb198119v2:
11:24 am What is the story on [Dan] Haigwood? You mentioned a few weeks ago he may have a shot at the #5 spot in the rotation. Is he really MLB-ready?
phiguest:
11:25 am Gillick: We like Dan Haigwood's potential, but at this moment he is projected to begin the season with Scranton.
Rick_Bailey:
11:25 am How does Philadelphia compare with other cities you have worked in?
phiguest:
11:25 am Gillick: Top of the list!
lucas8381:
11:26 am Any chance of re-signing Urbina, or will he likely be out for the season with his personal problems?
phiguest:
11:26 am Gillick: Right now, Urbina is indisposed. :-D
mb198119v2:
11:26 am What positions will there be competition for in Spring Training?
phiguest:
11:26 am Gillick: Mostly on the pitching staff.
bslivka:
11:26 am Hi Pat, what role do you see Shane Victorino in? 4th or 5th outfielder?
phiguest:
11:27 am Gillick: Shane will probably be a fourth outfielder with us. (Bye JMike)
jkkingjd:
11:27 am Can you seriously contend without a left handed starter?
phiguest:
11:27 am Gillick: Yes. Charlie did it in Cleveland and took them to the playoffs.
lucas8381:
11:28 am Do you see victorino as your main sub outfielder this year at all 3 positions?
phiguest:
11:28 am Gillick: Yes.
Christopher_Huling:
11:28 am If a veteran setup man can not be acquired, will the team rely on a young pitcher like Robinson Tejada in the bullpen or will Madson revert back to the bullpen?
phiguest:
11:28 am Gillick: Madson would be back in the bullpen.
briguy423:
11:29 am Do you think Tom Gordon can handle a full season of closing, and if for some reason he can't...Who might be in line to replace him?
phiguest:
11:29 am Gillick: Tom, but we're working on a backup.
Glan_Adams:
11:29 am Pat I thought that Gio Gonzolaz was a steal in the Thome trade. What is your timeline for Gio?
phiguest:
11:29 am Gillick: Probably two years.
krickeys:
11:30 am Who is a dark horse to make the club? Josh Kroeger? Yoel Hernandez?
phiguest:
11:30 am Gillick: Probably Matt Kata.
lucas8381:
11:30 am Where does Gavin Floyd figure in to your plans for the team?.... will he be in the mix for a starting spot?
phiguest:
11:30 am Gillick: He will be competing for a spot in the rotation.
phiguest:
11:31 am Gillick: Thanks everybody. I had a good time answering your questions!
Also, according to Cleveland.com, Rhodes is in town today for a physical...
I'm relieved David Bell is still the 3B.
im surprised how forthcoming Gillick was with those answers. good stuff.
My favorite points:
QuoteBase_Ball_2:
11:07 am I feel that Kenny Lofton was a great center fielder and we should have kept him. But instead we trade Jim Thome for Aaron Rowand who is probably going to be as good as Kenny was. Why didn't we keep Kenny and trade Thome for a position that we really need?
phiguest:
11:07 am Gillick: In all due respect, we have a difference of opinion on the ability of Kenny Lofton.
Matt_Suki:
11:11 am When you first took of this job you mentioned that you need to find a way to gain 5 more wins. Do you feel with the subtraction of wagner and the addition of franklin,gordon and rowand is enough?
phiguest:
11:12 am Gillick: We probably have not added five more wins yet.
Base_Ball_3:
11:13 am Pat who do you think will have a breakout year?
phiguest:
11:13 am Gillick: Brett Myers
Ty_Christian:
11:14 am Are there any middle-relief pitchers you are still looking at possibly signing in the next few weeks?
phiguest:
11:14 am Gillick: We're looking for starters or back-end, rather than middle relievers.
unclemilty:
11:19 am Mr. Gillick, thanks for the time. Russ Branyan may have been an ideal platoon partner for David Bell. Was Branyan "on your radar" at any point?
phiguest:
11:20 am Gillick: Yes, but our manager, Charlie Manuel, had Branyan in Cleveland and felt with the number of strikeouts we have at the moment that adding another 100 would not be the way to go.
phillsphan4life:
11:23 am Do you have any trick up your sleeve when it comes to trades?
phiguest:
11:23 am Gillick: Many
Rick_Bailey:
11:25 am How does Philadelphia compare with other cities you have worked in?
phiguest:
11:25 am Gillick: Top of the list!
Quotephiguest:
11:07 am Gillick: In all due respect, we have a difference of opinion on the ability of Kenny Lofton.
Funny stuff.
Quote from: MURP on January 27, 2006, 12:44:00 PM
im surprised how forthcoming Gillick was with those answers. good stuff.
Agreed. I think he's been very honest when it comes to answering questions from both the fans and the media in regards to where he feels the team is at right now. He's not blowing smoke up anyones ass and I appreciate and respect that.
If the physical goes OK, it's a done deal (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/13728481.htm)
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 27, 2006, 02:32:03 PM
If the physical goes OK, it's a done deal (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/13728481.htm)
Great. Now instead of having an inning or 2 to blow a game, Madsen can get the first 5 instead.
So, what do we nickname the Rhodes/Gordon game-ending tandem? Chocolate Thunder II?
Geriatric Chocolate
(http://www.chico.mweb.co.za/mg/art/film/9912/991202-life.jpg)
OFFICIAL - PHILLIES.com (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060127&content_id=1302183&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi)
OFFICIAL - INDIANS.com (http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060127&content_id=1302146&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle)
Quote"Jason Michaels is a hard-nosed, tough player that complements our lineup extremely well," general manager Mark Shapiro said in a release. "He has always been a tough out while recording a high on-base percentage, and he has the ability to play all three outfield positions well."
Good interview...thanks for posting Ed. I enjoyed reading some of his answers.
I have no beef with getting Rhodes. I wasn't ever a real big fan of Michaels. I'm more interested in seeing what Victorino can do.
Do you guys remember when Arthur Rhodes almost fought a manager (was it Piniella?) who had him take his fat ass earrings off when he was pitching because the glare from the diamonds was too much? :-D
It's a meh trade. Is Michaels worth more to the bench than Rhodes means to the bullpen? Frankley, Rhodes' injury problems scare me.
Quote from: MDS on January 27, 2006, 09:40:27 PM
It's a meh trade. Is Michaels worth more to the bench than Rhodes means to the bullpen? Frankley, Rhodes' injury problems scare me.
IMO with Victorino replacing Michaels, the Phils come out ahead in this deal by getting a setup man and allowing Madson a shot at the rotation.
I like Victorino too, but he is unproven. At least we know what Michaels can do. Madson could work in the rotation....I don't know, the trade was worth the risk with this team, but I have a feeling its gonna totally backfire.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 27, 2006, 08:15:04 PM
Good interview...thanks for posting Ed. I enjoyed reading some of his answers.
I have no beef with getting Rhodes. I wasn't ever a real big fan of Michaels. I'm more interested in seeing what Victorino can do.
Do you guys remember when Arthur Rhodes almost fought a manager (was it Piniella?) who had him take his fat ass earrings off when he was pitching because the glare from the diamonds was too much? :-D
He actually wanted to fight Vizquel who complained that the glare was blinding him
phils always seem to get these pitchers at the exact point in their careers when they are about to implode....their last great year is the year before the phils aquire them
Don't forget, MDS, that if Victorino doesn't get it done then they can bring up Roberson or Bourn.
I'm cool with Rhodes coming here. That means less time for the canuck.
JMike is nothing special. I wonder if Pat mourned his loss by double teaming some easy Arizona chicks.
JMike will now have to find an Indian to pick up the scraps for on club night.
Yea, but this leaves the bench as a total question mark. Sure Victorino looked good last year, but you never what you're gonna get from a guy who has played one freakin month in the majors. The other OF is gonna be that loser we picked up off waivers. He's nothing special. Sal Fasano/Loserthal? Please. Matt Kata/Tomas Perez? Ha. Abraham Nunez could be kinda effective, but I figure David Bell is gonna be so bad against RHP Nunez will end starting most of the games anyway.
They need one more bat off the bench. Piazza? Yep, that'll do it. But, it's not gonna happen. He wants to either stay out on the West Coast and have at least a platoon job, or go be a DH somewhere. He's not coming here in a reserve role.
Padres or Phillies for Piazza (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060129/news_1s29padres.html)
Interesting. This would be a key addition to the bench, come back home ya queer!
I find it amazing that no team in the AL would give Piazza a shot.
He can't field worth a damn but he's still a balls-out hitting machine.
Something's not right about this.
You'd think the Phils would match that money, so he'd be deciding between a little more playing time and a little more action from his NY-based girl. If he picks SD, we know the girl's just a front.
From philly.com...
QuotePosted on Sun, Jan. 29, 2006
Sources: Piazza joining Padres, not Phils
By Jim Salisbury
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
Mike Piazza will not be a Phillie in 2006.
The veteran catcher has decided to sign a one-year contract with the San Diego Padres, major-league baseball sources said today.
The Phils had hoped to sign Piazza and use him as a backup catcher and first baseman. Piazza's decision apparently came down to playing time. The Padres were able to offer him a chance to compete for their starting catcher's job.
Piazza, 37, was born in Norristown and played his high school ball at Phoenixville High. The 1993 National League rookie of the year, Piazza has 397 home runs and a career batting average of .311 over 14 seasons.
The failure to land Piazza means the Phillies will continue looking for a bat off their bench.
What a little bitch ass punk he is. Given the choice to come to his hometown team and help them win a world series or go to a town with about as much baseball history as Greensboro, N.C., that homo chooses San Diego.
Lovely.
Get your Duracells ready... :-D
Don't disrepect Greensboro aka "Da Boro". I'd hate to whoop your ass country style.
Can't blame him for wanting a chance at the starting job- perhaps trying to put the finishing touches on his Hall of Fame credentials.
Besides, the Padres were actually in the playoffs last season. :paranoid
Quote from: Geowhizzer on January 29, 2006, 05:40:09 PM
Can't blame him for wanting a chance at the starting job- perhaps trying to put the finishing touches on his Hall of Fame credentials.
That's the part that really galls me. Why in God's name wouldn't the Phillies give him the chance to beat out Loserthal fair and square?
None of this shtein makes sense to me.
If the Phillies wouldn't give him the opportunity to come to camp and win the starting job, then things are even worse for this team than I ever imagined in my worst nightmares.
PS: Settle down, Sassy. No offense to the garden spot of N.C. was intended. :-D
If I were Piazza and my options were San Diego or Philly, I would retire. What a couple of pathetic franchises.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on January 29, 2006, 05:44:30 PM
PS: Settle down, Sassy. No offense to the garden spot of N.C. was intended. :-D
It's all good. I really don't know shtein about Greensboro. Never been there. I'm not even sure why I made that comment. I don't particularly care for NC to begin with.
I'm not surprised that the homo picked San Diego. He had Philadelphia on his no-trade list for several years.
Would've been nice to have his bat off the bench.
And listen, I hate Lieberthal, but he plays better defense than Piazza. Mike couldn't throw out Shawn Andrews stealing 2nd.
I call a fag drag.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on January 29, 2006, 05:44:30 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on January 29, 2006, 05:40:09 PM
Can't blame him for wanting a chance at the starting job- perhaps trying to put the finishing touches on his Hall of Fame credentials.
That's the part that really galls me. Why in God's name wouldn't the Phillies give him the chance to beat out Loserthal fair and square?
That was my initial reaction. I thought he would have been a solid pickup and he could have filled in at 1B too. He's brutal defensively.
He's even worse at 1B than he is at C. Burrell should play 1B against tough LHP, and let Victorino play LF. However, for the most part, Howard should be playing everyday. But in terms of giving guys rest, thats gonna be an option.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 29, 2006, 06:06:39 PM
And listen, I hate Lieberthal, but he plays better defense than Piazza. Mike couldn't throw out Shawn Andrews stealing 2nd.
actually, by the numbers, Lieberthal isn't much better at throwing runners out. i think he was something like 8% better in throwing guys out last year. over a hundred steal attempts, he'll throw out 8 more runners. i'll take Piazza throwing out less runners and hitting better rather than vice versa.
and at least Piazza can still do things a real catcher does, like call a game, handle a staff, and block the plate. Lieberthal can't call a game or block the plate. every throw he takes for a play at the plate is either in front of or behind the plate to avoid a collision.
According to ESPN, the Phils offered more money than San Diego, but the better opportunity to play is what clinched it...
Mo,
Piazza isn't better than Lieby at blocking balls or calling a game. He stinks all around as a catcher. The only reason he ever played was because of his offense. When Pedro cameto NY they kept Piazza away from him as amuch as possible (in regards to catching him).
This sounds like I am sticking up for the bum Lieby, but I'm not. Piazza is just terrible defensively.
Then that really doesn't make any sense. Why would the Phls offer more money but not at least give him the opportunity to compete for the starting job? Hell, even if you're dead set on Loserthal starting, at least lie to the man and tell him he has a shot. Sheesh.
Here's the list of names still available for our bench: :-\
Rafael Palmeiro
Erubiel Durazo
Dave Hansen
Tino Martinez
Jose Offerman
Greg Colbrunn
Carlos Baerga
Scott Hatteberg
Jose Hernandez
Roberto Alomar
Ramon Martinez (can't re-sign with Phils)
Rey Sanchez
Royce Clayton
Manny Alexander
Alex Gonzalez (FLA SS)
Alex S. Gonzalez (TB 3B)
Mike Mordecai
Luis Lopez
Sammy Sosa
Bobby Higginson
Juan Gonzalez
Richard Hidalgo
B.J. Surhoff
Jeffrey Hammonds
Dustan Mohr
Gerald Williams
Denny Hocking
Danny Bautista
Chris Magruder
Ruben Sierra
Bengie Molina
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 29, 2006, 04:22:02 PM
You'd think the Phils would match that money, so he'd be deciding between a little more playing time and a little more action from his NY-based girl. If he picks SD, we know the girl's just a front.
HA!
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 29, 2006, 07:06:46 PM
Mo,
Piazza isn't better than Lieby at blocking balls or calling a game. He stinks all around as a catcher. The only reason he ever played was because of his offense. When Pedro cameto NY they kept Piazza away from him as amuch as possible (in regards to catching him).
This sounds like I am sticking up for the bum Lieby, but I'm not. Piazza is just terrible defensively.
my point is though, whatever the degree that Piazza is a worse defensive catcher than Lieberthal, that is less than the degree that Piazza is a much better hitter than Lieberthal
Sun,
The last several years the offensive gap between Piazza and Lieberthal wasn't as large as you'd think.
Piazza
2004: 445 AB, 47 R, 20 HR, 54 RBI, .266 AVG, .362 OBP, .444 SLG
2005: 398 AB, 41 R, 19 HR, 62 RBI, .251 AVG, .326 OBP, .452 SLG
Lieberthal
2004: 476 AB, 58 R, 17 HR, 61 RBI, .271 AVG, .335 OBP, .447 SLG
2005: 392 AB, 48 R, 12 HR, 47 RBI, .263 AVG, .336 OBP, .418 SLG
Piazza still has more power, but I don't think that his RBI totals would be markedly different than Lieberthal's, as he wouldn't be hitting in the premier spot in the batting order as he had with the Mets. Piazza has been declining markedly since his last big year in 2002.
Plus side: Piazza stil has more power. 20 and 19 HR in Shea- add 3-5 in CBP.
Down side: Piazza's OBP and SLG have slidden dramatically and steadily since 2002.
2001: .384 OBP / .573 SLG / .957 OPS
2002: .359 OBP / .544 SLG / .903 OPS
2003: .377 OBP / .483 SLG / .860 OPS (Only 68 games)
2004: .362 OBP / .444 SLG / .806 OPS
2005: .326 OBP / .452 SLG / .778 OPS
At this point in his career, Piazza DOES NOT have enough of an advantage offensively to offset his absolutely atrocious defense. Lieberthal's throwing has been mediocre the past several seasons, but his defensive and pitch-calling skills are well above Piazza's.
While I would like to see a great local player finish his career in his hometown, I am not overly upset that Piazza didn't sign with the Phils. I am no fan of Lieberthal, but at this point in their respective careers, Lieberthal should start over Piazza. For the Phils to lie to Piazza would probably just lead to problems in the future- and I don't think that Piazza would be fooled by such rhetoric. If the Phils would sign Piazza, it would be merely for a right-handed power bat off the bench, and perhaps a spot starter at 1B for the tough left-handers and a VERY occasional starter at C.
On a side note, hopefully there is a good free agent catcher this coming offseason, as the Phils will finally be free of Lieberthal's contract, and there is NO ONE in the minors that could take his place.
(http://www.marzanobaseball.com/photo/fullsize/marzburk.jpg)
:-D
Quote from: Geowhizzer on January 29, 2006, 08:20:49 PM
For the Phils to lie to Piazza would probably just lead to problems in the future- and I don't think that Piazza would be fooled by such rhetoric.
That was the recruiter in me talking. Sorry about that. :paranoid
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 29, 2006, 10:08:19 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on January 29, 2006, 08:20:49 PM
For the Phils to lie to Piazza would probably just lead to problems in the future- and I don't think that Piazza would be fooled by such rhetoric.
That was the recruiter in me talking. Sorry about that. :paranoid
:-D The teaching as a "noble profession" is similar. Noble must have the same Latin root meaning as "poor."
According to FoxSports, Piazza is all but guaranteed to start with the Padres. (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5289794?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49)
Excerpt:
QuoteThe Padres are expected to use Piazza as their cleanup hitter and No. 1 catcher. They were preparing to go to spring training with two career backups, Doug Mirabelli and David Ross, splitting time at the position.
No amount of money the Phils were going to offer would have matched that.
The Reds announced a few hours ago that Mike Arbuckle will be interviewed for their GM spot. He's one of seven candidates...
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 29, 2006, 07:24:03 PM
Here's the list of names still available for our bench: :-\
Rafael Palmeiro
Erubiel Durazo
Dave Hansen
Tino Martinez
Jose Offerman
Greg Colbrunn
Carlos Baerga
Scott Hatteberg
Jose Hernandez
Roberto Alomar
Ramon Martinez (can't re-sign with Phils)
Rey Sanchez
Royce Clayton
Manny Alexander
Alex Gonzalez (FLA SS)
Alex S. Gonzalez (TB 3B)
Mike Mordecai
Luis Lopez
Sammy Sosa
Bobby Higginson
Juan Gonzalez
Richard Hidalgo
B.J. Surhoff
Jeffrey Hammonds
Dustan Mohr
Gerald Williams
Denny Hocking
Danny Bautista
Chris Magruder
Ruben Sierra
Bengie Molina
I am shocked that Molina doesn't have a job yet. Did he price himself out of a job? Is Boras his agent?
That list is unimpressive. Baerga was half decent in Washington. Erubiel Durazo might be OK.
Also...
Gillick will be on SportsFinal tonight
Good post, Whizzer. I didn't realize that it was even that close between the two. I still would have wanted him here to come off the bench, but oh well.
Hidalgo is the only guy on the list who seems decent as a bench option. Doubt he comes here as a 5th OF.
That is the most unimpressive list of free agents ever. EVAR!
If Palmiero goes back to B-more, I bet he can give up Viagra with Anna Benson flaunting her stuff around the clubhouse.
"No, I do not give out no trade clauses. Sometimes when you give a guy 10, 12, 15 million dollars that is enough of a no trade in itself"
-also-
"We have to get better."
-also-
--Pat Gillick
What a breath of fresh air. Even though I wanted Hunsicker, I am really starting to like Gillick.
He also said that they might be able to make a deal for a SP by spring as well as upgrade the bullpen too.
I like his attitude. He seems like he's taking the job very seriously and is dead set on winning unlike any other ass clown who's been running this franchise since the mid 80's. Then again, he's already won a couple of WS and put together a team that had 116 wins in the reg season so I think it's safe to say he knows what he's doing. What's an acceptable time table for him to really build a legit contender? Because I just don't see it happening this year. Not with all the money tied up in Bell and Loserthal along with the glaring need for a stud in the rotation. So what's he got? 2 years? 3? More? Obviously I'm not going to demand he bring a championship home this year (or even contend for one) but I do think that going into the 2007 this team should be competing for one (ala the 2000 Eagles) and by 2008 this team should be considered among the best in the league and one of the "automatic" favorites for the WS.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 29, 2006, 11:25:57 PMI am shocked that Molina doesn't have a job yet. Did he price himself out of a job? Is Boras his agent?
The teams that needed catchers have already filled those holes while Molina still believes he's worth $7M a year...
The Padres finally announced the Ed Wade hire (http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060201&content_id=1305107&vkey=pr_sd&fext=.jsp&c_id=sd)
QuoteHe will scout the Double-A Eastern League and Triple-A International League for San Diego.
So he'll be checking out our farm teams...
I like this spin:
QuoteWith Wade as the head of baseball operations, the Phillies won 86 or more games in four of eight seasons while the farm system produced 2005 National League Rookie of the Year Ryan Howard.
well my god.. get wade.
Friday night Phils games back on 1210, due to hockey being back......
Phils have now 12 candidates to replace Tom McCarthy, and Scott Palmer is not among them (or so they say).
Thank god they're off of WIP. 1210 is a much stronger signal.
Are you a candidate to replace McCarthy? You and Wheels would be a great radio team!
There have been nights that the 1210 signal reached all the way down to Florida when they had a clear channel.
The strange thing is, I could never seem to get the channel when I lived in Sea Isle.
:-D
when i lived in pittsburgh, i was able to get 1210 once in a while too.
I used to get that shtein in Kansas. Some nights I'd have to set the radio on my window sill and put tinfoil on the antenna, but I got it. I was grounded one night when I was like 10 and I was in my room and was just flipping through the stations and I heard Harry's voice. It was pretty cool.
That's nothing. I used to get 1210 when I was stationed on Mars back in the day. that is incredibly accurate.
i was on the moon once and i got 1210 from there.