Phillies Offseason Talk

[PhillyGirl]

I can't believe you all actually support this team. You people are so sad it's pathetic. It's almost like that pathetic girlfriend who gets beat up by her boyfriend and is afraid to leave him because she thinks she loves him.

In life you only love who loves you back. The Phillies don't care about you. Just leave them already enough is enough.

Then get the farg off the thread, you idiot.

[PhillyPhreak54]

i may be speaking out of turn here...but what if this guy works out?

He very well could. But I wanted Hunsicker.

Gillick was over .500 in each of his 3 stops and has won a WS.

But I don't like the whole "sources say he said this team needs little to no tinkering" and the suggestion that Ed Wade Jr. will take over for him in 2-3 years.

If I was Hunsicker I'd be pissed too. I cannot wait for the article that someone will surely write that goes more in depth with what TOisGod said Miller said on the radio. It'll be just like last year with Leyland. Hunsicker will tell us that he told Monty The Moron the team needed change and that doomed him.

I bet on it.

Farg David Montgomery.

[Rome]

I've had about 12 hours to digest this latest development and here's what the new sunrise has wrought:

First - Gillick is definitely qualified.  He's a solid baseball guy with a resume that is laudible.  That said, he's the wrong guy, IMO, and this decision will cast a pall over baseball in Philly for years to come.  I hope I'm wrong, but I just know in my heart and mind that I'm right.

Second - Monty hired him as a stop-gap.  There is simply no other plausible explanation when you have a guy like Hunsicker available.  This is precisely the same thing that happened last year with Leyland.  He didn't kiss Monty's ass, and as a result, he didn't get the job.  I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that Gillick was pre-interviewed to determine whether Monty's vision would be carried out.

Third - No way in Hell does Theo Epstein come to Philly.  Based on what I heard Jayson Stark relate, he's either totally out of baseball for this year or he'll take the gig in Washington.  The ownership there is said to be hands-off, so he'd have the ability to build it from the foundation up without idiots like Larry Lucchino or Dave Montgomery standing behind him with a red-hot cattle prod.

Finally - I have no confidence whatsoever that a sea change is coming for the Phillies any time soon.  Manuel and his staff of castoffs will be retained and the Phillies will continue to tinker with a flawed roster in the deluded hope that a move here or there will put them over the top.  It won't.   They have too many guys who strike out and they have too few pitchers who can get them into the 8th inning.  Wagner's gone for good as well.  There's another effect of not signing Hunsicker.  Monty dragged his feet and utlimately picked someone who the general public would buy.  He's already lost the core fans anyway with his idiotic decision making, and all he really cares about is putting asses in seats at the Bank anyway.

Good for you, Monty.  You've accomplished what you set out to do.  I hope you enjoy mediocrity because that's what this move will guarantee.

[PhillyGirl]

Phreak, Miller is good friends with Hunsicker and his comments were EXTREMELY biased.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Gillick brings impressive resume

By PAUL HAGEN
hagenp@phillynews.com

PAT GILLICK has been general manager of the Toronto Blue Jays, Baltimore Orioles and Seattle Mariners. At each stop, his team went to the playoffs.

Phillies president Dave Montgomery is gambling he still has a few tricks up his 68-year-old sleeve.

A team that has visited the postseason just once since 1983 will announce today that Gillick has been hired to replace Ed Wade, who was fired Oct. 10, multiple baseball sources confirmed last night.

It had been apparent for days that the decision would come down to Gillick or former Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker, who has strong Philadelphia ties and an impressive resume of his own. Under his guidance, Houston made the playoffs five times in 9 years.

He walked away after the 2004 season, reportedly weary of front-office meddling, and the team he had built reached the World Series for the first time in franchise history.

As much as Hunsicker might have seemed to be a natural fit, a high-ranking club official said last night that the Phillies had heard "bad things" about him. It's considered likely, however, that these were sour-grapes comments made by executives in Houston who felt spurned when he walked away. That also could be a way of saying that Hunsicker, 54, might have been inclined to tell his bosses unpleasant truths.

He is expected to shortly accept a position as a senior baseball executive with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

It also has been speculated that Gillick's age might have been an advantage. According to this theory, the expectation is that he will hold the post for a relatively short period of time and then the job will be handed off to Ruben Amaro Jr., an assistant GM under Wade.

Amaro, assistant general manager for scouting and player development Mike Arbuckle and Indians assistant general manager Chris Antonetti also were interviewed.

No matter how Machiavellian the behind-the-scenes maneuverings may have been, the Phillies hardly have to apologize for hiring Gillick.

While he will face unique challenges in Philadelphia - including but not limited to the fact that he inherits a team that had a $96 million payroll last season and appears locked in to several large and virtually untradable contracts - he has a proven track record over the years.

He became general manager of the expansion Blue Jays in their second year, 1978. In 17 years he helped build a powerful franchise that won division championships in 1985, 1989, 1991, 1992 and 1993, winning the World Series in the latter two seasons.

Still, by the end of the 1994 season, he was one of the lower-paid general managers in baseball. When he didn't get the raise he was looking for, he retired.

Gillick resurfaced with the Orioles, where he was the general manager from 1996-1998. Baltimore made the playoffs the first 2 years after a 13-year playoff absence. He left when his contract was up, reportedly because he had tired of clashing with hands-on owner Peter Angelos.

His next stop was Seattle. In his 4 years (2000-2003) the Mariners had a 393-255 record, the best in baseball during that span.

In a sport increasingly divided between the old-school method of building through scouting and player development and the new-school theories that stress statistical analysis, Gillick has a reputation for being a solid traditionalist.

He also has had a reputation as a general manager who is reluctant to pull the trigger on major deals, despite acquiring David Cone before the trading deadline in 1992 and getting Rickey Henderson a year later.

In July 2003, Gillick was characterized as follows in The Sporting News: "Some GMs express frustrations over Gillick's cautious manner in trade negotiations. Gillick hoards young pitching. He values team chemistry. And even though the Mariners' resources [at the time were] second only to the Yankees', he operates with limited resources - an issue that helped drive away former manager Lou Piniella."

Others who were close to Gillick at the time paint a different picture, saying Gillick was as frustrated as Piniella by ownership's unwillingness to up the ante to add a piece that could have put the team over the top.

And, in the same story, Gillick indicated that he realizes the importance of deadline deals. "At this time of year there's so much hype and emphasis on July 31 [that making a trade] gives a psychological lift to the players, to the fans, to everyone," he was quoted as saying. "It basically validates that you've got a good team. You're saying, 'Hey, we're going to make a run for it.' "

It is believed that Montgomery settled on Gillick late Monday. He then informed the partners, negotiated the details of Gillick's contract and informed the other candidates that he'd decided to go in a different direction.

Gillick is expected to maintain his full-time home in Toronto.

The fact that the Dodgers expressed a late interest doesn't appear to have delayed the process. While Gillick is a native of Southern California, he was supposedly miffed when new Dodgers owner Frank McCourt all but begged him to interview 2 years ago and then bragged that he'd hired the best man possible when he gave the job to unproven Paul DePodesta.

He also told friends after leaving the Mariners that the long commute between Toronto and Seattle had become tiresome. There are more than 60 nonstop flights daily between Toronto and Philadelphia and the time in the air is just over an hour.

He will have to hit the ground running. Among the issues on his plate: Trying to re-sign closer Billy Wagner, who already has filed for free agency; figuring out how to deal with the Jim Thome-Ryan Howard logjam at first base; determining the short-term futures of catcher Mike Lieberthal, third baseman David Bell and centerfielder Kenny Lofton; and finding ways to strengthen the rotation, the bullpen (even if Wagner returns) and the bench.

He's succeeded before. And Montgomery, who may be staking his own future on this move, is clearly hoping he can do it again.

[PhillyPhreak54]

As much as Hunsicker might have seemed to be a natural fit, a high-ranking club official said last night that the Phillies had heard "bad things" about him. It's considered likely, however, that these were sour-grapes comments made by executives in Houston who felt spurned when he walked away. That also could be a way of saying that Hunsicker, 54, might have been inclined to tell his bosses unpleasant truths.

It also has been speculated that Gillick's age might have been an advantage. According to this theory, the expectation is that he will hold the post for a relatively short period of time and then the job will be handed off to Ruben Amaro Jr., an assistant GM under Wade.

He also has had a reputation as a general manager who is reluctant to pull the trigger on major deals, despite acquiring David Cone before the trading deadline in 1992 and getting Rickey Henderson a year later.

These 3 things are what I hate about this..

[PhillyPhreak54]

Phreak, Miller is good friends with Hunsicker and his comments were EXTREMELY biased.

Ah, I see. I didn't know they were boys. I didn't hear the interview only went off of what was said here.

I still am not excited by this though.

[SunMo]

i agree with others, if Gillick was hired on his qualifications alone, there wouldn't be as much as a problem with this.  but the fact you are hearing all this peripheral stuff is what makes this just another phillies move.  hiring Gillick so Amaro can take over, Gillick telling monty that the team doesn't need any changes, etc...

[rjs246]

Rome, Nice letter. Almost makes me wish I cared about something enough to write a letter about it.

[MURP]

yeah that doesnt sound good to me.   He may be ok short term, but it all seems to add up to a stop gap GM who might get lucky with this young nucleus of Phillies.  Doesnt seem like an overhaul of any sort and its no suprise that Monty got a half-puppet to play around until the next yes man is hired for the long term. 

[PhillyPhreak54]

Abreu a Gold Glove winner


It will be announced today that Phillies rightfielder Bobby Abreu is a Rawlings Gold Glove winner for 2005.

While that may surprise some people who have criticized Abreu's fielding over the years, it's worth remembering that this award is voted on by managers and coaches who frequently appear to allow offensive numbers to influence their selections for what is supposed to be a defensive award.

In other news, three more Phillies have joined closer Billy Wagner in filing for free agency: righthanders Ugueth Urbina and Terry Adams and backup catcher Todd Pratt.

Oh boy, the Abreu haters are going to have a field day with this. I think SunMo, Eskin and Macnow's heads might explode.

[SunMo]

Abreu a Gold Glove winner


It will be announced today that Phillies rightfielder Bobby Abreu is a Rawlings Gold Glove winner for 2005.

While that may surprise some people who have criticized Abreu's fielding over the years, it's worth remembering that this award is voted on by managers and coaches who frequently appear to allow offensive numbers to influence their selections for what is supposed to be a defensive award.

In other news, three more Phillies have joined closer Billy Wagner in filing for free agency: righthanders Ugueth Urbina and Terry Adams and backup catcher Todd Pratt.

Oh boy, the Abreu haters are going to have a field day with this. I think SunMo, Eskin and Macnow's heads might explode.

i never thought I'd see the day that Abreu had a gold glove and Rollins didn't.  that tells you all you need to know about how the choose the award.

[Wingspan]

i may be speaking out of turn here...but what if this guy works out?

He very well could. But I wanted Hunsicker.

Gillick was over .500 in each of his 3 stops and has won a WS.

But I don't like the whole "sources say he said this team needs little to no tinkering" and the suggestion that Ed Wade Jr. will take over for him in 2-3 years.

If I was Hunsicker I'd be pissed too. I cannot wait for the article that someone will surely write that goes more in depth with what TOisGod said Miller said on the radio. It'll be just like last year with Leyland. Hunsicker will tell us that he told Monty The Moron the team needed change and that doomed him.

I bet on it.

Farg David Montgomery.

along the tinkering part. just going by the record of the phils the past few years, why would you blow up the entire team? in reality, it just needs some tinkering. (albeit, the tinkering should be in the form of an ace, etc...)...but they are not that far off.

everyone wanted huntzinger from houston....but i never really understood why. just because he told the owner to farg off? who let billy wagner go? who let abreu go? who willingly took on brandon duckworth? to my knowledge. the astros still havent won a world series.

gillick has a very good track record, with latin, japanese, and american scouting...his teams have won a world series. i dont know how good he is, or if he is the answer, but to me he seems pretty qualified for the job.

and on top of that, hunsinger quit on the 'stros because of owner interaction and/or restrictions, what leads you to beleive that the phillies would just let him have free reign?

to me this just seems like a lot of bitching about a guy who actually has a better tack record. sure he may be a little older. but everyone now assumes the team is worse off. i just dont get it.

[SunMo]

this team needs more than tinkering, i'm sick of hearing that.

C - huge problem
1B - problem, who are you keeping, you are sending off
2B - fine
SS - fine
3B - huge problem
OF - need CF, Burrell and Abreu cannot continue to be in the same lineup
SP - Lieber is ok, Meyers is ok, Lidle is a decent 5th, that's all they have
Bullpen - who's the closer?  who's the setup man?  who's the lefty specialist

[PhillyPhreak54]

This club needs changes, Wing. They've tried to win with this nucleus for 3 years and it hasn't happened. And you're talking to a Phillies homer here.

Too many strikeouts, no team speed, shoddy pitching, no bench and several other little complaints I have.

I want Hunsicker because he knows how to build a team. I don't care that he told Drayton McClain to go farg himself. But I do like that he wasn't willing to be a puppet and made bold moves.

Like I said, I'm not totally hating on Gillick, I'm more pissed at Monty because he pulled the same shtein as last year. He took the path of least resistance like a spineless farg that he is.

I'm rooting for Gillick, but I don't like the stuff about Amaro being the next guy and the fact that Monty doesn't like to hear that his floundering franchise only needs tinkering so he chooses that person instead of the guy who said they need changes.