Two part question:
1. Once Vick is healthy, does he start? In other words, who is your starter for 2010?
2. Assuming both QB's get through the season alive, do you let Vick's contract expire or do you re-sign him and trade Kolb? In other words, who is your starter for 2011?
I'm on the record:
2010 - VICK
2011 - VICK
I think Kolb is pretty good and could end up really good, so you don't trade him within the division, or even the conference, if possible. But if Kolb plays another great game or two this season, he will command a 1st rounder (and possibly more), so even if you think that Kolb is equal or slightly better than Vick long-term, the team would be better keeping Vick. Right?
I'd keep Kolb and trade Vick.
I've always said that Vick is immensely overrated. Kolb is my choice.
trading vick for anything less than a #1 would be incredibly stupid
cobb should be the starter...as he should have been when he looked zesty and vick was the league mvp after three weeks...yesterdays game should not have changed anyones mind
I say Kolb for both but the truth is that as long as we never see the Wildcat or rotating QBs intra-game ever again I'll be happy.
Quote from: rjs246 on October 18, 2010, 11:00:47 AM
as long as we never see the Wildcat or rotating QBs intra-game ever again I'll be happy.
Definitely agree 100% with that.
I guess depends on what we see the rest of the season. If this was Kolb's last outing, Vick comes back, and plays the rest of the season and plays well you have to with Vick. I'd like to say Vick but someone can always argue we still haven't seen enough games with Kolb and they would be right.
They just better not let Vick walk away for nothing. Resign him and trade Kolb to Cleveland.
2010 - kolb
2011 - kolb
Smallwood makes an interesting argument (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/105158129.html)
Basically, the whole reason Vick was named starter was to ride the hot streak and try to win some football games. But now Kolb's the hot hand and Vick could be very rusty coming back from injury. So, if Reid really wants to give the team the best chance to win, he sticks with Kolb. Hoo boy.
Anyway, here is the correct answer:
Kolb starts at Tennessee no matter what.
Whoever is going to start after the bye is your guy. At this point an answer of 2010 Vick and 2011 Kolb doesn't make a lick of sense.
I don't buy into that theory. You prepare the whole off-season, hell you had this guy drafted in 07, to turn over the franchise to him and you bench him just to ride a hot streak till it fizzles out?
Reid is extremely stubborn and I doubt he would bench Kolb just for that. Injury yes. Bad play? No. Never did with McNabb. My opinion is that going into the season they thought that Kolb would pick up from where they left off and possibly be better so this team would not skip a beat offensively. That had to be it because otherwise you are completely rebuilding and you don't care if he has a bad half or two and in fact thats part of the learning process.
His job was never on the line when McNabb was in there. Reid isn't going to get a chance to start over with another draft pick, so he's going to go with the quarterback that keeps him employed. When Kolb was struggling and Vick wasn't, it was Vick. Now that Kolb isn't struggling so much, that's the guy he'll go with.
Of course, there's still a good chance that Reid will farg it all up again by putting Vick in at random.
Quote from: General_Failure on October 18, 2010, 11:50:58 AM
His job was never on the line when McNabb was in there. Reid isn't going to get a chance to start over with another draft pick, so he's going to go with the quarterback that keeps him employed. When Kolb was struggling and Vick wasn't, it was Vick. Now that Kolb isn't struggling so much, that's the guy he'll go with.
Of course, there's still a good chance that Reid will farg it all up again by putting Vick in at random.
You honestly think that if Kolb is a failure, Reid's job is on the line? He would need to fail with/on Kolb and have 2-3 seasons of below .500 record for his job to even be in danger.
I see him retiring before he ever gets fired from here.
Quote from: Magical_Retard on October 18, 2010, 11:45:43 AM
I don't buy into that theory. You prepare the whole off-season, hell you had this guy drafted in 07, to turn over the franchise to him and you bench him just to ride a hot streak till it fizzles out?
Reid is extremely stubborn and I doubt he would bench Kolb just for that. Injury yes. Bad play? No. Never did with McNabb. My opinion is that going into the season they thought that Kolb would pick up from where they left off and possibly be better so this team would not skip a beat offensively. That had to be it because otherwise you are completely rebuilding and you don't care if he has a bad half or two and in fact thats part of the learning process.
Well, he benched him thinking that Vick's hot streak wouldn't be interrupted by an injury and a Kolb hot streak. Your logic is kind of circuitous and generally makes less sense than most anything here after everything we've seen. Essentially, you are making a week 3 argument after week 6. Nice job.
Ok going with what you are saying if Vick's hot streak lasted all the way to the end of the season and possibly playoffs, what then? You let him go?
My point was that I don't think Reid would benched Kolb, the new franchise, simply because he had a bad half and wanted to ride the hot streak with Vick.
like gf said andy will go with whoever he thinks gives them the best chance to win...and really no matter who you think should be in there can you argue with that?
Kolb for both, and not just for my pure hatred of Vick
1) He is younger
2) I still dont buy Vick as a good QB for our system (or the NFL)
3) He should get a fair chance to prove he can be our starter, something he was robbed of due to a concussion.
This next game will be big for Kolb. He beats/plays well against Tennessee & Vick not having played for a month you stick with Kolb. Kolb stinks up the joint and starting Vick the next game is a no-brainer.
Really like what we're seeing from Kolb.
Kolb is my starter like I thought he was going into the season before he was hurt, and when he was ready to come back and Reid started Vick anyway. You won't find out if he's for real if he's on the bench like he's been the last two years. The longer that this team keeps shuffling Vick and Kolb back and forth, is the longer we have to wait to see if Kolb is the qb for the future or not.
I like Vick as a backup, and thats all. In the NFL, it pays to have a more than capable backup, especially with this o-line. Kolb has already gotten' knocked out and we aren't halfway through the season yet.
Quote from: Magical_Retard on October 18, 2010, 11:57:15 AM
You honestly think that if Kolb is a failure, Reid's job is on the line? He would need to fail with/on Kolb and have 2-3 seasons of below .500 record for his job to even be in danger.
I see him retiring before he ever gets fired from here.
I think going 0-3 against Dallas, particularly the back to back losses to end the season, changed things. If Reid can bumble his way through this season and not make the playoffs, or lose in the first round again, he might want to start making some calls.
If there's going to be no season next year, maybe they keep him around. I don't know how hiring coaches works when there's no games.
I'd go with Vick for this season. I give him a slight edge at this point because he's a bit more dynamic. If Andy decided to go with Kolb I'd have no problem with it.
Depending on how he does for the rest of the season would determine what I did for the future. It's impossible to give a concrete answer of what should be done for the future at this point.
This is a copout but I honestly have no problem going with either at this point. I wasn't in favor of pulling Kolb for Vick, but I do think Vick can be successful in this offense. I still think Vick gives them a slightly better chance to win this year, and with how zesty the NFC is, that might be enough to roll the dice and see what happens.
I think what's going to happen is Kolb is going to get another game. He'll start vs Tenn without Jackson, and if he plays well against a pretty good Titans team, on the road, without pimp, then he's going to get the job back. If he plays poorly, Vick will play after the bye.
The question will be what happens when he goes 15-24 for 165 yards 1 TD 1 INT and the team wins 17-13?
Kolb
Kolb
We don't know the ceiling for Kolb and we haven't seen the basement although I hope it was the GreenBay game
Still not sold on Vick's decision making - like to see 2 or more games with him to make an opinion
Right now..KOLB for both
im all in on kolb and have been
2010-Vick
He's more exciting to watch and when the offensive line crumbles like it eventually will because it's not very good, he gives them a better chance to win than Kolb
2011 I think depends on just how good Vick plays for the rest of the year. If he plays like he did for the fest of the year, then he's an elite QB and how do you just let that go? Kolb looks good when he gets good protection but can't throw with guys in his face...and yet you could still get a 1st rounder for that, AND still have a great QB? Trade immediately.
If Vick looks meh for the rest of the year, then you let him go (or trade him if you can) and go with Kolb next year. Try to fix the offensive line, get a good compliment to Shady, and don't get Kolb killed again.
so vick's long TD to d-jax was much more exciting than kolb's throw to maclin ?
So Mike Vick is not more exciting to watch than Kevin Kolb?
Kolb
Kolb
Quote from: Munson on October 18, 2010, 03:21:14 PM
So Mike Vick is not more exciting to watch than Kevin Kolb?
Who cares about "more exciting?" You win, or you don't, style points don't count.
They're def NOT winning this year.
Quote from: Munson on October 18, 2010, 03:39:11 PM
They're def NOT winning this year.
so then start the guy who is more exciting as opposed to letting the so-called "future" develope.
Okay, I get it. He's black and you don't want him running around making plays. My bad.
not sure how anyone who isn't purposely trying to stir the pot or is a retard could think kolb's play hasn't been exciting to watch the last couple of weeks.
which do you fall under ?
So, again, are you saying that Kevin Kolb is more exciting to watch play than Mike Vick? especially with the way Vick played as a starter?
If you're getting more big plays made (which Vick was doing/what he probably will still do) and still winning....then you go with Vick. But if he shows that it was just a mirage and he's actually Vick from the Falcons, tell him it's over. It's not that hard.
2010 Kolb
2011 Kolb
2012 MCNABB! [\phillyphreak]
Too tough to say at this point. Both guys need more games under their belts before any fair judgment can be given out. The Oline showed up yesterday and Kolb shined. The Oline plays like shtein, it's pretty much Vick's position. I vote for whatever gets Reid fired quicker.
Wtf munson? So if some of us want Kolb then were racist against the bnrother man? Kolb went 23-29 362 yds! Vick led the Eagles to 2 straight wins and they benched the cracker. So now that the cracker is lighting it up, without Pimp for a whole half. How do u sit him!!! Kolb for 2010,2011,2012 etc.
This is a really tough question. I guess I go with Kolb because he is likely your future. Either way they better Franchise Vick in the off season and get something for him.
lol holy shtein phillymic calm down broseph. It was just a smartass comment.
Quote from: Tomahawk on October 18, 2010, 05:00:53 PM
2010 Kolb
2011 Kolb
2012 MCNABB! [\phillyphreak]
I laughed. But McNabb is a FA after this season, so it would be much more accurate if you slotted Donnie Mac for 2011.
He'll have to sit on the bench of a year to relearn the system.
I believe Vick is a short term solution. You know pretty much what you got, and can sign him to 2-3 year contract at the end of the season IF.....
Kolb sucks. However, you'll only know that if you give the kid a try. That was the plan, and Reid uncharacteristically didn't stick to it. Kolb looked lost against GB and hide your eyes awful against Washington. Better against SF and Atlanta. But I believe he needs a season to prove it. Hopefully, he does and you get some for trading Vick. If not, hang onto Vick, show Kolb the door, and draft another guy for the future.
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 18, 2010, 06:31:08 PM
Quote from: Tomahawk on October 18, 2010, 05:00:53 PM
2010 Kolb
2011 Kolb
2012 MCNABB! [\phillyphreak]
I laughed. But McNabb is a FA after this season, so it would be much more accurate if you slotted Donnie Mac for 2011.
As did I. :-D
Vick
TBD
I can't call it for 2011 yet. I have been pleasantly surprised by what Kolb has shown these last two weeks. Because after the pre-season, Packers quarter and taterskins game I was doubting more than ever.
However, with the state of this OL I would continue to start Vick based on that and some of the defensive lines/pass rushers they have coming up.
It is a good problem to have and I think both are handling it perfectly.
everybody loves everybody!
Quote from: Diomedes on October 18, 2010, 08:35:21 PM
everybody loves everybodyRaymond!
That show is funnier than King of Queens
Here's the deal.
A couple weeks ago, I would have told you Vick for 2010 and beyond. Based on the last 2 weeks though, now I say Kolb -2010, Kolb - 2011. It's not because of me flip-flopping, it's because of how I think Andy operates. I think these Niners and Falcons games sealed Vick's long term future here much like the Chiefs/Saints game sealed the deal with McNabb last year. Those games just solidified Andy's belief in Kolb going forward and now I don't see Andy turning away from his hand-picked QB of the future in order to extend Vick, who's still a bit of an unknown. That being said, if Kolb will be your QB in 2011, which I think he will...then he should be your QB in 2010. As exciting as it is to watch Vick, it's just a waste of time to play him over Kolb if you've got no future plans for him. Besides the fact that playing him more would likely decrease his trade value because it really can't get much higher.
There's a lot of talk about the upcoming trade deadline and the Eagles QBs. Hypothetically a team makes you an offer for Vick or Kolb. So my question is: What would you take - right now - for Kolb?
Same question but for Vick.
The Eagles stance is they're happy with both guys so any team that's going to get either QB is going to have to give good compensation. Honestly I wouldn't take anything lower than a 2nd for Vick, and wouldn't take anything other than a mid first and maybe a later round pick for Kolb.
two numbers ones for either and id do it....which is to say i wouldnt trade either of them
I wouldn't make a trade, they'll need both. They have a chance of bumbling their way into the playoffs but neither qb is likely to stay healthy even through the next 5 games much less the rest of the season. For an unpossible deal like 2 number 1s I'd do it though.
Any team desperate for a QB mid-season is likely to have a pretty high draft pick come April. I take a #1 for either, preferably Vick.
Quote from: rjs246 on October 19, 2010, 01:33:21 PM
Any team desperate for a QB mid-season is likely to have a pretty high draft pick come April. I take a #1 for either, preferably Vick.
this
Isn't the trade deadline today?
Missanelli was basically brow beating Bruno because Bruno thought they could get a #1 pick for one of them yesterday.
I'm not sure they could get one for Vick with him having a year left on his deal, but I think with how many horrendous QB situations there are out there, they could most likely get a #1 for Kolb from someone.
aj feely went for a second
exactly.
Jason Campbell, Matt Moore, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Alex Smith, and David Gerrard are all starting with no real viable alternatives. Colt McCoy is going to blow too.
A #1, even a high one, would be justified if any of those teams thought Kolb or Vick (if they could sign him), were legitimate options as their future. Obviously Kolb would probably be preferable for those teams since none of them are close to winning now, so presumably it'll take a few years, though with how zesty the NFL is in general right now, you never know.
vick is ideal for a place like carolina or jacksonville that dont draw and need a qb....he would pay for himself in attention and attendance alone
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on October 19, 2010, 03:10:14 PM
Missanelli was basically brow beating Bruno because Bruno thought they could get a #1 pick for one of them yesterday.
I'm not sure they could get one for Vick with him having a year left on his deal, but I think with how many horrendous QB situations there are out there, they could most likely get a #1 for Kolb from someone.
I'd never question Roseman again if he could get a #1 for Vick. I honestly think he's worth it, he's playing at a borderline Pro Bowl/MVP level, and has at least 4 or 5 good seasons left in him. I would have taken a 2nd and been happy. Maybe try to flip that for Logan Mankins. For Kolb I'd hold out for a 1st and maybe a 3rd, just because he's a little younger.
trade deadline passed 120 seconds ago...
thank god
Top-rated passers in the NFC (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/league/nfc)
Ha.
the impressive number is the 11-2 td int ratio
donny boy anchoring the 11th spot.
Quote from: smeags on October 21, 2010, 12:01:52 PM
donny boy anchoring the 11th spot.
24th in the NFL (Vick is 1st and Kolb is 7th)
haaaa, 24th, has mama mcnabb blogged about lil d's season so far ?
fargin offense! Top 2 QB's, 2 receivers in the top 10, Shady top 10 RB. Beautiful.
Yeah I can't say I expected the offense to be as good as it's been, whether it was Kolb OR Vick. The line just looked so putrid...but they're finding ways to get it done
Playing against mediocore to horrible defenses probably helps
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 21, 2010, 11:47:54 AM
the impressive number is the 11-2 td int ratio
Word...and even one of those was just thrown up for grabs to end a game. Hell, you can even make an argument for the tip drill vs the Falcons. Point is...neither one of them is putting the ball right in the gut of any DB's. Pleasant surprise to this point.
Quote from: EagleFeva on October 21, 2010, 06:26:24 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 21, 2010, 11:47:54 AM
the impressive number is the 11-2 td int ratio
Word...and even one of those was just thrown up for grabs to end a game. Hell, you can even make an argument for the tip drill vs the Falcons. Point is...neither one of them is putting the ball right in the gut of any DB's. Pleasant surprise to this point.
i mentioned this last week in another thread but this is extra important this year because of the line play...giving up minus yardage via the sack doesnt sting nearly as much if you are always winning the TO battle
I don't think you can make the call now. You need to see if Vick can play at a high level for the rest of the season. Especially against tough defenses. If Vick shows that he truly has transformed his game and is now a pass first passer and an accurate one at that then I go with Vick. Michael Vick with those legs and that cannon of an arm with accuracy is a top 5 QB in the NFL and one of the most dangerous players this league has ever seen.
But if he reverts somewhat back to the Atlanta Vick with 50% completion percentage games and missing routine throws then I go with Kolb in 2011. Either way I think you need to see what Vick gives you the rest of the season.
So 2010 - Vick no matter what
2011 - Vick if he continues great play, and Kolb if Vick doesn't.
Vick might be studying the playbook more, and he might be thinking pass first, but none of that is going to all of a sudden make him accurate. And there is no way he's going to be as accurate a passer as Kolb has now shown us he can be. Against Atlanta he was 23-29 and over 300 yds. On the year he's 71 outta' 105 for a 67.6% record. And he's only started what, 5 games in the NFL? Look really close at that completion %. No way in hell does Vick ever approach that mark. I was sceptical about Kolb, but he's making a believer outta' me quick, fast and in a hurry. I've been watching the Eagles for a long time and I can't remember if any qb I've ever seen has been this accurate. I'd bet no. I can't believe that, after all thats been invested in Kolb, and what he's shown, that anyone out there actually still wants Vick to start. He's a backup, nothing more.
I forgot to mention this, do you sit the offensive player of the week?? How would that go over?? imo, that'd be a serious Kolb mind farg.
pump your brakes homie
Yeah, I know, I'm getting excited, but I can'ts helps it.
I don't know, the throws Vick has been making in his starts were ridiculous. The two throws against the Jags to Jackson and Maclin were simply perfect. In stride, between defenders, perfect spiral and right in the arms. Made some ridiculous throws against the Lions too.
Quote from: King Cole on October 22, 2010, 03:20:11 PM
I don't know, the throws Vick has been making in his starts were ridiculous. The two throws against the Jags to Jackson and Maclin were simply perfect. In stride, between defenders, perfect spiral and right in the arms. Made some ridiculous throws against the Lions too.
arm strength
grit
Choke dawg?
He still made the throws though and against Atlanta he wasn't making those kinds of throws against bad teams. But that is why I said we need to find out if he can do it against good defenses too. If he still makes those plays against good defenses then he should keep the job.
You're talking about Vick^? Atlanta? Anyway, I feel the same about Kolb. How do you sit him now? He's supposed to be the future. Vick is not.
Vick
Vick
Vick.
His arm is so strong!
He got hit you farging retard and wasn't able to follow through. Dumb pass yes.
lol he didn't get hit. He just didn't step into the throw.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on October 24, 2010, 02:02:34 PM
He got hit you farging retard and wasn't able to follow through. Dumb pass yes.
AFFLACK
Matt......Damunnn
Rewound and watched the replay again. He didn't step up because he was already being pushed back. Now shut it.
Quote from: Munson on October 24, 2010, 02:04:53 PM
lol he didn't get hit. He just didn't step into the throw.
Then explain why he was on the ground? It was a retarded pass absolutely. Don't know why you act like he has a Danny Weurfel arm.
He got hit after he threw. If he's gonna play behind this oline he needs to know he's going to get hit and step into his throws and take the hit. Don't try and launch one with just your arm when you don't have the arm to do so. It tends to lead to INTs.
There r very few people on the planet that can do that.
Very few?
The eagles had two of them on the same team last year.
Even so, it's a stupid throw to make if you'er not going to step into it.
Idiot.
Quote from: Munson on October 24, 2010, 02:17:21 PM
Very few?
The eagles had two of them on the same team last year.
Even so, it's a stupid throw to make if you'er not going to step into it.
Yeah and they are two of a very few. There aren't many qbs in the NFL that can do it. Seems like wind is a factor out there today as well. Stupid play yes. But quit acting like the dude has no arm whatsoever.
Where did I say that?
Kolb may be a great QB someday but looks like a backup today.
Sarcasm?
I think he looks decent today, considering the oline is back to trying to get him killed again. The deep throws into the wind though....no. I don't fault him for trying because the guys are getting open...but he just isn't getting it there
Our redzone offense sucks... time for Vick.
Quote from: Hawk on October 24, 2010, 03:56:54 PM
Our redzone offense sucks... time for Vick.
Exactly why I go to Vick. Both guys can move the ball but Vick is money in the redzone, teams have to respect his legs so they play D differently. Kolb left too many plays on the field today.
Tough first game back for Vick...gonna have to win a shoot out against Peyton Manning
well that throw wasn't good
That fumble wasn't Kolb's fault. He got hit before he could even hand it off. Hell it wasn't even McCoy's fault. That was just a great play by the Titans D.
I thought Kolb played well. Could have ran the ball a bit more but KOLB was sharp on some throws but he also could have had 1-2 more INTs on those deep throws. Don't if it was the wind or his arm strength but every deep throw was a lame duck and the one TD they scored was a result of an excellent play by Cooper.
Whatever it was as usual there was no adjustment by the coaching staff. It was as if they heard Britt was arrested and assumed he would be no part of the offensive game plan and ripped out that page in the defensive playbook. I have always said it sucks to lose but when you lose like this you really see that this coaching staff has 0 ability to adjust on the fly. Its sad. And painful.
And oh yeah VICK from here on out.
Quote from: Magical_Retard on October 24, 2010, 05:02:25 PM
That fumble wasn't Kolb's fault. He got hit before he could even hand it off. Hell it wasn't even McCoy's fault. That was just a great play by the Titans D.
no it wasnt...it was a complete matador play by max jean
btw has anyone seen more offensive linemen blown off the ball than the eagles ol today...its was a joke
Kolbsy let Reid off the hook BIG TIME today. Now he can nonchalantly start Vick after the bye as if he never considered going back to Kolb, which is obviously a total lie. He can hope Vick wins a few games and drives up his value so that trading his franchise rights will be enough to warrant doing so and going back to Kolb in 2011.
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 24, 2010, 06:00:56 PM
Kolbsy let Reid off the hook BIG TIME today. Now he can nonchalantly start Vick after the bye as if he never considered going back to Kolb, which is obviously a total lie. He can hope Vick wins a few games and drives up his value so that trading his franchise rights will be enough to warrant doing so and going back to Kolb in 2011.
id say jorrick randall calvin let andy off the hook....if he doesnt fumble cobb has a chance to be the hero and make andys life miserable this week
Yeah, but the way that was going, I don't see Kolb getting it done.
I think the loss was squarely on the offensive line and the defensive backfield. Kolb was good enough to win but barely. Calvin's and other mistakes (like all the 3rd down penalties on D) would not have been a big deal if the OL and DB's were getting the job done. But this is for another thread.
Bottom line: VICK is the starter against Indy (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5723872).
EDIT: Link included, because Andy said so.
The Colts defense sucks. Assuming Vick is in good playing condition I bet you he cuts up the Colts and I think it could be a long awaited W against that team.
yeah by no means was the loss anywhere close to being on cobb...but he wasnt that good and left numerous plays out on the field....the obvious one being the hideous celek overthrow....that one really hurt
basically he did nothing to prevent vick from starting next week
I think Vick will have a good game but it's hard to imagine a guy coming off a 4 week hiatus because of injury coming in and out-dueling the GOAT QB.
Andy Reid's undefeated after the bye week streak is probably about to be done.
Vick came off basically a 2 year hiatus and dominated in his first significant in-game action back against GB.
That's why i said he'd have a good game, but it's hard to see him beating Peyton Manning in a shoot out
But the Eagles D is.... HahahahaaAaaaa, no.
Starting Vick makes no sense. Who starts at qb is not the friggen' problem with this team. Vick might win one, two more games with his legs while Kolb sits on the bench and we are left to wonder, again, who will be the qb next year. Johnny Unitas could start for this team and they'd lose to the Colts. You have to let Kolb play. He didn't look good yesterday, but that could have been the product of the rest of the team looking like crap, especially the oline and d. Why do people want to axe him after one mediocre performance? He has to start if we are ever gonna' know if he can really play. If he sucks, the you draft another qb this year and hopefully if he's gonna' suck it's bad enough that the Eagles end up picking in the top ten.
Don't fall into the 'Win Now' mode. With this D and oline, Eagles go nowere even if they get lucky enough to get in the tourney. Starting Vick does nothing to help the future of this team.
Quote from: shorebird on October 25, 2010, 07:39:44 AM
Starting Vick makes no sense.
Quote from: shorebird on October 25, 2010, 07:39:44 AM
Don't fall into the 'Win Now' mode.
So you readily admit that starting Vick gives the team a better chance to win but still think it makes no sense. You're neat.
Look, I get the whole rebuilding argument and all, but the division, conference, and whole league are way too wide open to pack it in and expect to lose. Kolb needs to work on his pocket presence and watch more film of QB's who do it well. He DOES HAVE A STRONG ARM but when he's constantly throwing off his back foot into a stiff wind, he's going to have to get lucky to complete passes (like he did on the Cooper bomb). It is encouraging that he can pick apart a defense when the OL holds up but downright pathetic to watch him when the pressure comes.
The trade deadline being past without Vick going away makes this question more of a sticky wicket. So does the fact that the division and conference are so apparently weak. (The AFC is much more solid as a whole than the NFC and I don't see the Eagles doing much against the Ravens or Steelers or Patriots or Chargers, etc.)
But the fact is, Vick is not the future. Kolb has to play to develop. He's gone as far as he can riding the bench and eating up film.
If I were coach, Kolb would start.
I guess it all boils down to if the coaches think they can build around Vick, meaning if he can be the future. So to them its also important to see Vick play out the season, see if his transformation both on and off the field is real, and if they more confident with him leading the team.
All other discussion falls under who you are rooting for. Let just hope Reid gets this one right cause otherwise its failure at QB, drafting a QB, and then another 50/50 shot of that working out.
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 25, 2010, 09:12:03 AM
Quote from: shorebird on October 25, 2010, 07:39:44 AM
Starting Vick makes no sense.
Quote from: shorebird on October 25, 2010, 07:39:44 AM
Don't fall into the 'Win Now' mode.
So you readily admit that starting Vick gives the team a better chance to win but still think it makes no sense. You're neat.
Again,
if you're looking towards the future of this team, startng Vick makes no sense!!You think it gives them a better chance to win, well...win what?!? What exactly do you think they'll win, one, two more games at the most? Playoffs, Superbowl?? Are you guys that friggen' desperate to win now that you're talking about building around Mike Vick!?!?
C'MON!!
It only makes no sense if you're damn sure that Kolb has a higher ceiling than Vick. The team is young, yes, but offensive skill players (especially RB's) lose a step after ~5 years, so that's really the window with this current group. If the team thinks that Vick gives them a better chance for a parade than Kolb does over that time frame, how is that so unbelievable?
what you say makes sense about the future and is a valid argument...but you dismiss the other side way too emphatically. ..as if there is no other option but to play for the future
raheem morris said yesetrday that the tampa bay buccanneers are the best team in the nfc...the fact that they probably arent is of no meaning but the fact that the word probably is used tells you all you need to know about the nfc...the farging buccanneers are 4-2 for god sakes
if the eagles lose their next four games then fine go with the future...but until that happens you pretty much have to go with the guy who gives you the best chance to win...because as of right now there is nothing that says the eagles dont have as good a chance to make the supeowl as anyone else in the conference...my god the defending superbowl champs just got routed at home by the cleveland browns
how do you just dismiss all that?
I don't see this team, with this defense, or this offensive line, winning in the playoffs, if the even make them. I've seen too many years of being good enough to get there and then blowing it when it counts most. I don't want to just make the playoffs. I want to build a team that you know will defiantly make the playoffs and one that we can all see being good enough to win the Superbowl, and I'd like the Eagles to work towards that. Vick, to me, is just a band aid that will put meat in the seats and keep the money train on the track. I might be wrong, but thats the way I see it.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 25, 2010, 12:21:44 PM
what you say makes sense about the future and is a valid argument...but you dismiss the other side way too emphatically. ..as if there is no other option but to play for the future
raheem morris said yesetrday that the tampa bay buccanneers are the best team in the nfc...the fact that they probably arent is of no meaning but the fact that the word probably is used tells you all you need to know about the nfc...the farging buccanneers are 4-2 for god sakes
if the eagles lose their next four games then fine go with the future...but until that happens you pretty much have to go with the guy who gives you the best chance to win...because as of right now there is nothing that says the eagles dont have as good a chance to make the supeowl as anyone else in the conference...my god the defending superbowl champs just got routed at home by the cleveland browns
how do you just dismiss all that?
That is the thing the NFL is so jacked up this year you might as well take a shot. I wouldn't mind seeing Kolb be the guy. In reality though there are no dominate teams in the NFL right now. The Steelers are probably the closest thing to it. Give it a shot farg it.
Quote from: shorebird on October 25, 2010, 12:31:53 PM
I don't see this team, with this defense, or this offensive line, winning in the playoffs, if the even make them.
it doesnt matter what you or i think...all that matters is the current reality...and that reality is that they are one of the better teams in the nfc and they have a legit shot at the playoffs...you cant give up on a season less than half way thru it...that just wouldnt ever happen nor should it...can you imagine what the fanbase and media would do if they quit on this year right now because they want to see what kevin cobb has....its laughable to even think about it
It's laughable that as soon as the game was over, people are wanting Vick, Vick, Vick. He's had no more good games than Kolb has. Kolb was great against Atlanta, and not so good against the Titans. Ya' gotta' give the guy a chance. Vick had a couple good games and now it's all about him. What happens when Vick gets trashed playing Indy? You go back to Kolb?
I went on the record after the Atlanta game and said that Vick was my still my starter for 2010. I did qualify that by saying Kolb could change all that by having another ridiculous game against Tennessee, but that didn't happen, so Vick's the guy.
Basically, Kolb seems to be downright special when he can stay in rhythm and when things are going well, and he seems to be middle-of-the-road when he has to improvise. I wouldn't go as far as to say that a healthy Vick beats Tennessee, but I certainly feel the makeup of the team with him at QB would have been better than it was with Kolb. He had a 3-game stretch that went from good to great to under average, and that step backwards makes Vick a no-brainer decision coming off the bye.
True, but good to great to average is normal for a guy who hasn't even gotten' a full season under his belt. All this in and out, start Vick stuff can't be doing anything but hurting him after he was more or less told he was the man only to have the rug pulled out from under him.
If nothing else, Kolb has proved that he's not mentally soft. All this shtein about proverbial rugs being pulled out only matters if he's bitchmade. We're so used to that because of McNabb's weak psyche, but that's not going on here. So, Kolb has another 3 1/2 games of experience under his belt and has a lot more to work on behind the scenes before being a truly special QB. In the mean time, Vick can run for his life as needed and unleash some truly sick throws. Will keeping him in there be difficult if he struggles against Indy? Yes, but he will have that chance to either make it difficult or step up and keep the job. Or, he'll get crushed again and we'll see Kolb sooner than expected.
fire reid.
problem solved.
Quote from: Rome on October 25, 2010, 02:12:10 PM
fire reid.
problem solved.
Promote Banner's pet coach in line?
To comply with NFL rules, they would first interview this guy:
(http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/files/2010/06/5-steve-urkel.jpg)
Then they would hire someone like this guy:
(http://www.eetasia.com/ARTICLES/2004AUG/B/SHIH.JPG)
Quote from: shorebird on October 25, 2010, 01:25:54 PM
It's laughable that as soon as the game was over, people are wanting Vick, Vick, Vick. He's had no more good games than Kolb has. Kolb was great against Atlanta, and not so good against the Titans. Ya' gotta' give the guy a chance. Vick had a couple good games and now it's all about him. What happens when Vick gets trashed playing Indy? You go back to Kolb?
why is it laughable that people would want a guy who played at a crazy high level before he was hurt to come back and start
seems pretty reasonable to me
because we are so concerned about the future of this team! bring on 2014!
ok, remember that awesome post when they don't make the playoffs this year and Vick is gone and we're all saying, "why didn't they just let kolb play this year and see what he had?"
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 25, 2010, 03:53:48 PM
Quote from: shorebird on October 25, 2010, 01:25:54 PM
It's laughable that as soon as the game was over, people are wanting Vick, Vick, Vick. He's had no more good games than Kolb has. Kolb was great against Atlanta, and not so good against the Titans. Ya' gotta' give the guy a chance. Vick had a couple good games and now it's all about him. What happens when Vick gets trashed playing Indy? You go back to Kolb?
why is it laughable that people would want a guy who played at a crazy high level before he was hurt to come back and start
seems pretty reasonable to me
I laugh at the thought of Vick continuing to consistently play at that crazy high level, or any level other than the one he was on when starting for Atlanta.
Quote from: SunMo on October 25, 2010, 04:19:04 PM
ok, remember that awesome post when they don't make the playoffs this year and Vick is gone and we're all saying, "why didn't they just let kolb play this year and see what he had?"
and if they do make the playoffs? still the "damn we should of played Kolb?"
you will never hear that comment from my ass...ever. I dont get excited to watch Kevin Kolb play football like some of the heads in here. I want the best qb on the roster that gives the team the best chance to win every sunday regardless. I'll worry about the 2011 lockout season later.
I think we've seen what he has. When he's got time he's accurate, puts his whole body into throws and gets it to wherever he wants to get it. He's got a little Eli problem with the wind, but that's up to the coach to call a better game plan per the weather conditions. When he's pressured, he seems to get scared and throw off of his back foot and make some mistakes.
He's going to learn to stand in there and take the hit when he learns it, a few extra games played this year isn't going to speed that process up. There are guys who never learn that over their entire careers. Has Romo even learned that yet? That's been the formula for him...get in his face and rattle him and you can beat him.
my last word on this subject, because I'm tired of it...farg it, they do what they do:
I'm glad the QB isn't McNabb.
People say Vick isn't the future, but if he plays great down the stretch I guarantee you they extend him and he is the future. Andy Reid is clearly enamored with his talents and is basically giving him a chance to win the QB of the future job in the last 9 games of the season.
Vick has 5 good years left, so why can't he be the future?
Quote from: Munson on October 25, 2010, 04:37:49 PM
I think we've seen what he has. When he's got time he's accurate, puts his whole body into throws and gets it to wherever he wants to get it. He's got a little Eli problem with the wind, but that's up to the coach to call a better game plan per the weather conditions. When he's pressured, he seems to get scared and throw off of his back foot and make some mistakes.
He's going to learn to stand in there and take the hit when he learns it, a few extra games played this year isn't going to speed that process up. There are guys who never learn that over their entire careers. Has Romo even learned that yet? That's been the formula for him...get in his face and rattle him and you can beat him.
Pretty sure that formula works on every QB to have ever played
Quote from: reese125 on October 25, 2010, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: SunMo on October 25, 2010, 04:19:04 PM
ok, remember that awesome post when they don't make the playoffs this year and Vick is gone and we're all saying, "why didn't they just let kolb play this year and see what he had?"
and if they do make the playoffs? still the "damn we should of played Kolb?"
you will never hear that comment from my ass...ever. I dont get excited to watch Kevin Kolb play football like some of the heads in here. I want the best qb on the roster that gives the team the best chance to win every sunday regardless. I'll worry about the 2011 lockout season later.
What good does making the playoffs do if there's no chance either player is going to lead them to a super bowl victory this year?
Quote from: General_Failure on October 25, 2010, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: reese125 on October 25, 2010, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: SunMo on October 25, 2010, 04:19:04 PM
ok, remember that awesome post when they don't make the playoffs this year and Vick is gone and we're all saying, "why didn't they just let kolb play this year and see what he had?"
and if they do make the playoffs? still the "damn we should of played Kolb?"
you will never hear that comment from my ass...ever. I dont get excited to watch Kevin Kolb play football like some of the heads in here. I want the best qb on the roster that gives the team the best chance to win every sunday regardless. I'll worry about the 2011 lockout season later.
What good does making the playoffs do if there's no chance either player is going to lead them to a super bowl victory this year?
Since its already concluded they won't make or win the SB this year, why can't they develop a 30 year old qb who could be the future for the next 4-5 years?
Maybe we do get a parade and Vick rides in the front by himself with his dog like Pat Burrell.
Quote from: reese125 on October 25, 2010, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: SunMo on October 25, 2010, 04:19:04 PM
ok, remember that awesome post when they don't make the playoffs this year and Vick is gone and we're all saying, "why didn't they just let kolb play this year and see what he had?"
and if they do make the playoffs? still the "damn we should of played Kolb?"
you will never hear that comment from my ass...ever. I dont get excited to watch Kevin Kolb play football like some of the heads in here. I want the best qb on the roster that gives the team the best chance to win every sunday regardless. I'll worry about the 2011 lockout season later.
the eagles love fans like you.
10-6 and make the playoffs...YAY!
no..fans like you love kevin kolb.
and Ill be damn impressed if they go 10-6 with the remaining schedule. If they do pull that off they are much better than I thought
If the Eagles go 10-6 they might finish with the best record in the NFC.
Quote from: reese125 on October 25, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
no..fans like you love kevin kolb.
and Ill be damn impressed if they go 10-6 with the remaining schedule. If they do pull that off they are much better than I thought
i don't love or hate kevin kolb, but i'm smart enough to know that this team ain't doing shtein with the defense and oline they have, so i am willing to take a step back to see if their 2nd round draft pick can be a quarterback.
but you'd rather put a band-aid on it and delay the inevitable, cool.
Quote from: SunMo on October 25, 2010, 05:13:15 PM
Quote from: reese125 on October 25, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
no..fans like you love kevin kolb.
and Ill be damn impressed if they go 10-6 with the remaining schedule. If they do pull that off they are much better than I thought
i don't love or hate kevin kolb, but i'm smart enough to know that this team ain't doing shtein with the defense and oline they have, so i am willing to take a step back to see if their 2nd round draft pick can be a quarterback.
but you'd rather put a band-aid on it and delay the inevitable, cool.
Exactly
Retard brings up a good point though....maybe they are considering Vick as the future. Unlike your nonchalant attitude toward Kolb though, I hate Vick
Quote from: SunMo on October 25, 2010, 05:13:15 PM
Quote from: reese125 on October 25, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
no..fans like you love kevin kolb.
and Ill be damn impressed if they go 10-6 with the remaining schedule. If they do pull that off they are much better than I thought
i don't love or hate kevin kolb, but i'm smart enough to know that this team ain't doing shtein with the defense and oline they have, so i am willing to take a step back to see if their 2nd round draft pick can be a quarterback.
but you'd rather put a band-aid on it and delay the inevitable, cool.
hey you like to go backwards and I like to move forward....thats cool too.
That's really not going backwards, unless you're saying you've seen enough to realize Kolb blows
Kolb definitely does not blow. But Vick has more physical ability to play the position and is not old enough to 100% certainly NOT be the QB of the future. If he reverts to 50% completion, runner-only Vick, then you have a problem. But he's been playing QB at a high level AND adding the threat of breaking the big one on the ground.
Keep bringing up the o-line....
The o-line is the reason the Eagles should go with Vick..
I'm pretty sure we are not going to be able to evaluate Kolb effectively if he's constantly under pressure.... atleast Vick can scramble and make the games exciting.. the NFC sucks... so making the super bowl is a possibility even with this defense.
Atlanta, the same team the Eagles dominated with ease last week, is once again generally thought to be the best team in the NFC. All the people bitching like inbred schoolgirls about the OL and defense not being good enough to do anything in the playoffs must not have seen that game. In fact this was the first game the Eagles lost by more than a TD, and the game was much closer than that in truth - even with piss poor offense.
So, it is not time to automatically pack it in for next year, and it is stupid to assume that Vick can't be the starter in 2011 and beyond. He's 30 and didn't play for 2 seasons. Kolb may be a pretty good QB for 10-12 more seasons, and Vick may be a great one for 5 for all we know.
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 25, 2010, 05:38:28 PM
Kolb definitely does not blow. But Vick has more physical ability to play the position and is not old enough to 100% certainly NOT be the QB of the future. If he reverts to 50% completion, runner-only Vick, then you have a problem. But he's been playing QB at a high level AND adding the threat of breaking the big one on the ground.
Yep. If he reverts back to that then they'll go to Kolb in 2011 I think. But if he continues to play like he did against the Lions and Jags, then he certainly deserves a new contract. An accurate passer that has a strong arm with that scrambling ability is something special to have at QB. Kolb looks impressive and all, but he simply doesn't have the talent Vick does, and Vick on the field changes the way defenses play you. They have to spy him or else he can take off for 20 yards and kill you. That helps especially in the red zone, where coincidentally this team had the best red zone % in the league with Vick. Small sample size, but certainly better than the last couple seasons with McGut.
the defense is completely atrocious. they have absolutely no chance of winning anything with that collection of douchebags.
So is the defense for every team in the NFC...
I'm confident Vick and company can put up more points on those lousy defenses, than they can put up on the eagles terrible defense.
Quote from: reese125 on October 25, 2010, 05:26:25 PM
Quote from: SunMo on October 25, 2010, 05:13:15 PM
Quote from: reese125 on October 25, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
no..fans like you love kevin kolb.
and Ill be damn impressed if they go 10-6 with the remaining schedule. If they do pull that off they are much better than I thought
i don't love or hate kevin kolb, but i'm smart enough to know that this team ain't doing shtein with the defense and oline they have, so i am willing to take a step back to see if their 2nd round draft pick can be a quarterback.
but you'd rather put a band-aid on it and delay the inevitable, cool.
hey you like to go backwards and I like to move forward....thats cool too.
you're not this dumb right?
take one step back to take 2 forward? never heard that phrase? guess not.
Quote from: SunMo on October 25, 2010, 06:05:59 PM
Quote from: reese125 on October 25, 2010, 05:26:25 PM
Quote from: SunMo on October 25, 2010, 05:13:15 PM
Quote from: reese125 on October 25, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
no..fans like you love kevin kolb.
and Ill be damn impressed if they go 10-6 with the remaining schedule. If they do pull that off they are much better than I thought
i don't love or hate kevin kolb, but i'm smart enough to know that this team ain't doing shtein with the defense and oline they have, so i am willing to take a step back to see if their 2nd round draft pick can be a quarterback.
but you'd rather put a band-aid on it and delay the inevitable, cool.
hey you like to go backwards and I like to move forward....thats cool too.
you're not this dumb right?
take one step back to take 2 forward? never heard that phrase? guess not.
No never.
Shut the farg up literal boy.
lol what?
yikes.
Does anyone pay attention to other teams around the NFC??? Every team in this conference sucks.. so yes... if starting Vick behind this miserable oline means we make a playoff run, then I am all for it.
This defense absolutely does blow, but this team could easily make it to the Superbowl unless the Saints just start going on a tear and revert back to their 2009 form. Otherwise, what team in the NFC is clearly better than the Eagles with Vick as QB? Giants may be better right now, but are they clearly better? If they lose tonight to Dallas, they are 4-3 just like the Eagles and the Eagles will probably split with the Giants. The Packers are good, but have a million injuries. The Seahawks have a good record, but everyone knows they aren't for real. The only other team is Atlanta and the Eagles already smoked them and the game wasn't even that close because Akers missed 3 FGs.
Once you get to the Superbowl any team can win it. The Jets right now look like the best AFC team, but the Ryan family are proven playoff losers and Mark Sanchez sucks.
Before the season I was 100% for this being a test run year, but the way the NFL looks has absolutely changed things. The Lombardi is completely up for grabs this season. You could name about 7 or 8 teams who have a legit shot at winning it.
Quote from: King Cole on October 25, 2010, 06:11:31 PM
This defense absolutely does blow, but this team could easily make it to the Superbowl unless the Saints just start going on a tear and revert back to their 2009 form. Otherwise, what team in the NFC is clearly better than the Eagles with Vick as QB? Giants may be better right now, but are they clearly better? If they lose tonight to Dallas, they are 4-3 just like the Eagles and the Eagles will probably split with the Giants. The Packers are good, but have a million injuries. The Seahawks have a good record, but everyone knows they aren't for real. The only other team is Atlanta and the Eagles already smoked them and the game wasn't even that close because Akers missed 3 FGs.
Once you get to the Superbowl any team can win it. The Jets right now look like the best AFC team, but the Ryan family are proven playoff losers and Mark Sanchez sucks.
Before the season I was 100% for this being a test run year, but the way the NFL looks has absolutely changed things. The Lombardi is completely up for grabs this season. You could name about 7 or 8 teams who have a legit shot at winning it.
:yay :yay
It's simple. Vick is on my fantasy team. So start him, please.
lmao at this team winning the super bowl.
wtf is wrong with you retards?
No one said Super Bowl. We talkin' 'bout the playoffs.
<jimmorasr>PLAYOFFS?!?</jimmorasr>
Quote from: Rome on October 25, 2010, 06:38:30 PM
lmao at this team winning the super bowl.
wtf is wrong with you retards?
they sure aren't magical.
Kolb, trade Vick while his value is high
Quote from: phillymic2000 on October 25, 2010, 07:42:53 PM
Kolb, trade Vick while his value is high
The trade deadline already passed
details, details.
it doesnt matter if you think they cant win the superbowl...you cant bail on a team that right now is in the thick of things in the conference...its just amazing to me that people can honestly say play the worse player in game 8 because they cant win...when the conference says they can win
theres also nothing that says vick cant play this year out then leave in the offseason and have cobb start in 2011...theres your future right there...what is the monster rush to know next week about kevin cobb
if you think vick is better right now and still want to start kevin cobb then you should be shot...this team has had too many instances in the past of not playing the best guys on the roster because of off the field reasons...its actually refreshing for once to see andy play the person who he thinks is best
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 25, 2010, 08:09:06 PM
it doesnt matter if you think they cant win the superbowl...you cant bail on a team that right now is in the thick of things in the conference...its just amazing to me that people can honestly say play the worse player in game 8 because they cant win...when the conference says they can win
theres also nothing that says vick cant play this year out then leave in the offseason and have cobb start in 2011...theres your future right there...what is the monster rush to know next week about kevin cobb
if you think vick is better right now and still want to start kevin cobb then you should be shot...this team has had too many instances in the past of not playing the best guys on the roster because of off the field reasons...its actually refreshing for once to see andy play the person who he thinks is best
Huh? :-\ really? why waste the year with Vick, it's like still believing Mike Tyson could win the Heavyweight title. Kolb was Andy's pick, the reason they traded #5. If he can't lead this team, then farg Andy and lets move on with another head coach. As much as I was happy about #5 departure, I was equally unhappy at The Big Fat Ass staying put on the sideline with his dumb ass looks and Horrible game management. This is a tell all year, either he pulls it together and "gets the guys in the right position" or it's here's a dozen Tony Luke cheesesteaks for your flight to Jacksonville, and say hi to Considine when you get there, you worthless piece of 345 lbs of lard.
Go with Vick.
As previously mentioned, he very well could be the guy for the future.
And you do not throw in the towel. The NFC is wide open and they have to take their best shot. Mike Vick is the guy who gives them the best shot
dear cf,
did you watch the fourth quarter of that debacle yesterday?
hugs & kisses,
reality.
Quote from: Rome on October 25, 2010, 09:30:05 PM
dear cf,
did you watch the fourth quarter of that debacle yesterday?
hugs & kisses,
reality.
Yes, I did... and perhaps if Vick was at qb, then we wouldn't be failing in the redzone time and time again. In fact, I guarantee we would have put that game away and it wouldn't have mattered if Kenny Britt was using an invisible cheat.
Money back guarantee?
It's not like Vick makes the offensive line block. His career average is to be sacked once every 6 dropbacks
And on another one or two of those 6 drop backs he turns it into morale-crushing first down run.
He also would have been able to muscle that one deep ball sure touchdown to Maclin that the wind knocked down.
I don't get how everyone thinks Mike Vick, after two games were he played lights out, is expected to play over and above how he's played for his career. Igy, you think that he's now realizing his true potential? I'm serious, because I never thought he did, after seeing the talent he had. He was never a disciplined player, you think two years in lockup and a new outlook on life will make him the quarterback everyone thought he was coming out of college? That would be great for the Eagles, but it's asking a lot imo. He might be a different person, might be looking at playbooks, studying film, but to do it on the field is another thing entirely.
Man, I shake my head listening to you guys who are thinking that "the NFC is wide open", "get to the Superbowl and anyone has a chance", "there are 7-8 teams that have a legitimate shot at the Lombardi." Hahahaha! You sound like taterskin fans for Christ sakes. There are 7-8 teams with a shot, but guess what, the Eagles are NOT one of 'em!
...stop drinking the kool aid...
...put down that blunt...
...pump those brakes, take a chill pill, anything with three letters ending in cet, ene.
...take off the midnight green colored glasses...(or in igy's case, kelly green....wait a minute, he never said anything about winning a superbowl...)
Quote from: shorebird on October 26, 2010, 07:09:58 AM
I don't get how everyone thinks Mike Vick, after two games were he played lights out, is expected to play over and above how he's played for his career. Igy, you think that he's now realizing his true potential? I'm serious, because I never thought he did, after seeing the talent he had. He was never a disciplined player, you think two years in lockup and a new outlook on life will make him the quarterback everyone thought he was coming out of college? That would be great for the Eagles, but it's asking a lot imo. He might be a different person, might be looking at playbooks, studying film, but to do it on the field is another thing entirely.
Man, I shake my head listening to you guys who are thinking that "the NFC is wide open", "get to the Superbowl and anyone has a chance", "there are 7-8 teams that have a legitimate shot at the Lombardi." Hahahaha! You sound like taterskin fans for Christ sakes. There are 7-8 teams with a shot, but guess what, the Eagles are NOT one of 'em!
...stop drinking the kool aid...
...put down that blunt...
...pump those brakes, take a chill pill, anything with three letters ending in cet, ene.
...take off the midnight green colored glasses...(or in igy's case, kelly green....wait a minute, he never said anything about winning a superbowl...)
hot peeeanuts.....craaaackerjacks here.....get your....
Quote from: shorebird on October 26, 2010, 07:09:58 AM
I don't get how everyone thinks Mike Vick, after two games were he played lights out, is expected to play over and above how he's played for his career. Igy, you think that he's now realizing his true potential? I'm serious, because I never thought he did, after seeing the talent he had. He was never a disciplined player, you think two years in lockup and a new outlook on life will make him the quarterback everyone thought he was coming out of college? That would be great for the Eagles, but it's asking a lot imo. He might be a different person, might be looking at playbooks, studying film, but to do it on the field is another thing entirely.
earlier in the thread you said vick was the better qb....but now it seems all you are doing is trying to denegrate him
if you believe that cobb is the better qb then your mindless ramblings have merit...but if you want cobb to start because you think somehow over the next five games the state of the franchise rests on finding out if he is a nfl qb or not then you are very misguided
just keep kolb ready because vick is going to get hurt again.
Probably. But they will ride that horse until he's ready for the glue factory.
I dont think so...hes been working with ricky henderson on his slide.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 26, 2010, 10:18:57 AM
earlier in the thread you said vick was the better qb
No, I did not. I've said all along that Kolb needs to start. I've never said Vick was the better qb.
unless vick somehow learned how to play cornerback over the weekend there's nothing his presence would have made in terms of a difference on sunday.
Quote from: shorebird on October 26, 2010, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 26, 2010, 10:18:57 AM
earlier in the thread you said vick was the better qb
No, I did not. I've said all along that Kolb needs to start. I've never said Vick was the better qb.
then theres no argument...you think cobb is better and thats why he should start
Quote from: Rome on October 26, 2010, 02:09:27 PM
unless vick somehow learned how to play cornerback over the weekend there's nothing his presence would have made in terms of a difference on sunday.
Right, because the offense was a point-scoring juggernaut and basically lost a shootout. That's totally what happened.
Quote from: Rome on October 26, 2010, 02:09:27 PM
unless vick somehow learned how to play cornerback over the weekend there's nothing his presence would have made in terms of a difference on sunday.
I disagree, he's a better redzone QB. The Eagles could have had a bigger lead. With a half ass effort the Eagles could have held their points to the mid 20's and Vick could have easily lead the O to TDs instead of Akers FGs.
Quote from: SD on October 26, 2010, 02:31:11 PM
Quote from: Rome on October 26, 2010, 02:09:27 PM
unless vick somehow learned how to play cornerback over the weekend there's nothing his presence would have made in terms of a difference on sunday.
I disagree, he's a better redzone QB. The Eagles could have had a bigger lead. With a half ass effort the Eagles could have held their points to the mid 20's and Vick could have easily lead the O to TDs instead of Akers FGs.
truth
maybe with vick in the game instead of running shady they roll vick out and he throws or runs it in instead of a turnover
Quote from: Rome on October 26, 2010, 02:09:27 PM
unless vick somehow learned how to play cornerback over the weekend there's nothing his presence would have made in terms of a difference on sunday.
+7 points on the deep ball to Maclin that the wind knocked down
+4 points most likely on any one of those field goals where Vick could have used his legs to get a 1st down
No they're not sure htings, but Vick would have given them a better chance to do either one of those, and it very easily could have kept the game from getting to where it got
Or Vick would have thrown an interception in the Red Zone. Or fumbled it. It's not like the guy is a guaranteed touchdown machine
Well of course he could have thrown a pick or fumbled. But if we are to base his performance off of this season, he has been pretty good with protecting the ball (fumbles), good with not throwing picks, and lucky that his bad passes have not been picked off. You can believe Kolb is better or not or that he needs to be the starter for future reasons, but cmon Vick is a better QB in the red-zone at least. The threat to run it in scares the defenses.
Quote from: Tomahawk on October 26, 2010, 02:54:19 PM
Or Vick would have thrown an interception in the Red Zone. Or fumbled it. It's not like the guy is a guaranteed touchdown machine
Absolutely. But to say that a different QB would not have made any difference because the defense opened the flood gates is obtuse.
seven for eight in the red zone for vick
not scores....touchdowns
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 26, 2010, 03:04:05 PM
seven for eight in the red zone for vick
not scores....touchdowns
But per the naysayers, those were against inferior and/or unprepared opponents and have absolutely no bearing on his play against good opponents. By the way except for maybe the Giants, the critics will claim that every defense the Eagles face for the rest of the season sucks. So get used to it.
maybe im wrong but i seem to recall the eagles having red zone problems against every defense over the last years
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 26, 2010, 03:04:05 PM
seven for eight in the red zone for vick
not scores....touchdowns
And no picks, red zone or not.
The Titans were there for the taking, someone needed to step up and take it, Kolb didn't. I don't think he played poorly - especially since he had no Jackson, the O-line was awful for half the game, and Celek is terrible this year - but Vick has shown the ability to extend plays, take them in using his legs etc. He does what he needs to to score TDs. Kolb reminds me too much of McNabb last season in the red zone.
Speaking of McNabb, he is still generally playing like absolute ass.
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 26, 2010, 03:13:52 PM
Speaking of McNabb, he is still generally playing like absolute ass.
he was so awful yesterday
17/32, 200 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT, 2 fumbles (neither lost)
Also, he tacked on -2 yards rushing on 5 carries
So, my analysis at this time is...
Vick > Kolb >>>>>> McNabb
Just to be sure I double checked the Bears roster, Ronde Barber doesn't play for them.
-2 yards on 5 carries sounds like a couple kneel downs to me, but i didn't watch
otherwise, what a horrible line. How the farg did they win that game?
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 26, 2010, 03:19:00 PM
17/32, 200 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT, 2 fumbles (neither lost)
Also, he tacked on -2 yards rushing on 5 carries
So, my analysis at this time is...
Vick > Kolb >>>>>>K. Detmer>>>> McNabb
Quote from: SD on October 26, 2010, 03:20:13 PM
Just to be sure I double checked the Bears roster, Ronde Barber doesn't play for them.
Check for Ricky Manning Jr.
Vick has been consistent. Kolb on the other hand has shown once this year that he can be dominant and in the other games, pretty much looked sub par or plain bad. Most of this has to do with what the oline is doing that game and of course the defense. I'm not saying Vick isn't going to have a bad game, I can pretty much bet he's going to suck it up bad at least once in the future. So will Kolb and he'll have great games...It just silly to try and predict the future on this one. Vick is starting so deal with it. I never thought for a minute Vick would amount to anything but he has and I'd much rather watch him make plays than see Kolb running for his life. The team needs a god damn online before Kolb can amount to anything. Let Vick play, I'm all for it, he's entertaining me at this point.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 26, 2010, 03:14:38 PM
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 26, 2010, 03:13:52 PM
Speaking of McNabb, he is still generally playing like absolute ass.
he was so awful yesterday
wait, are you talking shtein about a game the skins won ?
Quote from: smeags on October 26, 2010, 05:15:30 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 26, 2010, 03:14:38 PM
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 26, 2010, 03:13:52 PM
Speaking of McNabb, he is still generally playing like absolute ass.
he was so awful yesterday
wait, are you talking shtein about a game the skins won ?
no....talkin bout the qb
but you knew this
where are the 5 people who were begging for an extension and crying that the sky was falling cause their precious little bitchface mommas boy qb was traded now?
show yourselves. your boy is finished as if we didnt know that 2 years ago.
Phreak, Retard, PG
There. That's the list.
Quote from: mussa on October 26, 2010, 03:56:57 PM
Vick has been consistent.
Vick was consistently good against Detroit, Jacksonville, and down 17 points to the Packers. He was less than great against the taterskins before he got hurt. I'm not ready to hand him the MVP based on that resumé.
Kolb has likewise been good sometimes, and questionable otherwise.
I have no idea which one gives the Eagles a better chance of winning. Vick has more experience and thus probably makes better NFL decisions, but maybe Kolb has a higher ceiling than Vick because he is still adjusting to the game. Who the hell knows?
I'm fine going with either of them, because I find them both more exciting to watch than McNabb. The *worst* we've seen out of Kolb (post-GB jitters) is basically equivalent to most of the games 5 was throwing the last couple of years, only with fewer worm burners, more interceptions, and no cornballery on the sidelines.
Quote from: QB Eagles on October 26, 2010, 08:32:19 PM
Vick was consistently good against Detroit, Jacksonville, and down 17 points to the Packers. He was less than great against the taterskins before he got hurt. I'm not ready to hand him the MVP based on that resumé.
Sigh.
Quote from: MDS on October 26, 2010, 06:02:12 PM
where are the 5 people who were begging for an extension and crying that the sky was falling cause their precious little bitchface mommas boy qb was traded now?
show yourselves. your boy is finished as if we didnt know that 2 years ago.
I just posted a few posts above yours.
Quote from: QB Eagles on October 26, 2010, 08:32:19 PM
Quote from: mussa on October 26, 2010, 03:56:57 PM
Vick has been consistent.
Vick was consistently good against Detroit, Jacksonville, and down 17 points to the Packers. He was less than great against the taterskins before he got hurt. I'm not ready to hand him the MVP based on that resumé.
Kolb has likewise been good sometimes, and questionable otherwise.
lol
vick has been consistently great not good and has clearly outplayed cobb....using a quarter against the skins to somehow put the two qb's on a level playing field is laughable....and if somehow you really wanna use the skins game as a negative against vick the cat was 5-7 in the game and had the amazing run up to the point he got hurt...i mean compare vicks partial game (skins) with cobbs partial game (gb)
say cobb is the future....say vick wont keep this up (it would almost be impossible to) but dont intimate that the two qb's have been about the same this year
If Vick plays like that the rest of the season you almost have to keep him over Kolb. This year I don't care who you are playing this any team can win. All you need to know is the Browns smoked the Saints. Hell the Bills have taken both Baltimore and NE to OT.
The good thing about having to play Kolb is if they did decide to go with Vick, Kolb's play has raised his value.
People just don't like Vick and don't want to give him credit. No one has to like Vick. Wish for him to get eaten by a pack of wild dogs if you want, but don't act like he didn't look great when he played. It is the best he's ever looked in his career. He played a couple bad teams, but he's played bad teams in Atlanta before too and never looked this good.
it would be funny if vick's name was kick and kolb's name was volb.
Kolb. For the obvious reasons.
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 27, 2010, 06:31:01 PM
Kolb. For the obvious reasons.
(http://www.philaflava.com/forum/images/smiles/dcracistemo0mp.gif)
?
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 27, 2010, 07:17:43 PM
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 27, 2010, 06:31:01 PM
Kolb. For the obvious reasons.
(http://www.philaflava.com/forum/images/smiles/dcracistemo0mp.gif) ?
No, Freddie, sorry to disappoint. Ha ha. The obvious reason is that Kolb gives the Eagles the best chance to win a SB. Not jusr games. QB's like Vick have not won the SB. Probably never will.
Black? Won a superbowl. Scrambling? Won lots of superbowls. Left handed? Won a supwerbowl. Felon? Won a superbowl. Owner of a sexually transmitted disease? Won every superbowl.
I'm out of guesses.
People named Ron Mexico, dumbass! Duh!
Tony Montana was Mexican when he was playing for the 49ers, right?
Quote from: QB Eagles on October 26, 2010, 08:32:19 PM
Quote from: mussa on October 26, 2010, 03:56:57 PM
Vick has been consistent.
Vick was consistently good against Detroit, Jacksonville, and down 17 points to the Packers. He was less than great against the taterskins before he got hurt. I'm not ready to hand him the MVP based on that resumé.
hey, how did you get that little line thing above the e? That's pretty cool. Or gay. Not sure which.
resumé!
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 27, 2010, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 27, 2010, 07:17:43 PM
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 27, 2010, 06:31:01 PM
Kolb. For the obvious reasons.
(http://www.philaflava.com/forum/images/smiles/dcracistemo0mp.gif) ?
No, Freddie, sorry to disappoint. Ha ha. The obvious reason is that Kolb gives the Eagles the best chance to win a SB. Not jusr games. QB's like Vick have not won the SB. Probably never will.
ok, what's up here ? shawn andrews avatar ? really ?
Quote from: smeags on October 28, 2010, 08:38:10 AM
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 27, 2010, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 27, 2010, 07:17:43 PM
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 27, 2010, 06:31:01 PM
Kolb. For the obvious reasons.
(http://www.philaflava.com/forum/images/smiles/dcracistemo0mp.gif) ?
No, Freddie, sorry to disappoint. Ha ha. The obvious reason is that Kolb gives the Eagles the best chance to win a SB. Not jusr games. QB's like Vick have not won the SB. Probably never will.
ok, what's up here ? shawn andrews avatar ? really ?
I think releasing Andrews is the biggest mistake of the Reid/Banner era. I will grant you that Andrews was/is a strange guy. But I also feel that the now healthy Andrews would have been the best player on the Eagles. There, I said it, THE BEST PLAYER ON THE EAGLES. My defense of that statement is that Andrews would have been the only one on the roster who could be considered "the best in the NFL" at their position. Also, I feel that great football begins upfront on the LOS. Therefore, having the best player in the most important position makes you a winner.
They've made so many mistakes that theres no way that releasing Andrews was the biggest mistake. I'd say that the release of Trotter was bigger, and the biggest in recent memory, simply because they never had a replacement that was better for that time.
The FIRST time was big Shorebird, I agree. But with JJ as d-coordinator mistakes like that were covered up
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 28, 2010, 11:43:23 AM
Quote from: smeags on October 28, 2010, 08:38:10 AM
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 27, 2010, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 27, 2010, 07:17:43 PM
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 27, 2010, 06:31:01 PM
Kolb. For the obvious reasons.
(http://www.philaflava.com/forum/images/smiles/dcracistemo0mp.gif) ?
No, Freddie, sorry to disappoint. Ha ha. The obvious reason is that Kolb gives the Eagles the best chance to win a SB. Not jusr games. QB's like Vick have not won the SB. Probably never will.
ok, what's up here ? shawn andrews avatar ? really ?
I think releasing Andrews is the biggest mistake of the Reid/Banner era. I will grant you that Andrews was/is a strange guy. But I also feel that the now healthy Andrews would have been the best player on the Eagles. There, I said it, THE BEST PLAYER ON THE EAGLES. My defense of that statement is that Andrews would have been the only one on the roster who could be considered "the best in the NFL" at their position. Also, I feel that great football begins upfront on the LOS. Therefore, having the best player in the most important position makes you a winner.
so why can't a guy who is the best in the nfl at his position claim a starting position on the giants ?
Quote from: smeags on October 28, 2010, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 28, 2010, 11:43:23 AM
Quote from: smeags on October 28, 2010, 08:38:10 AM
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 27, 2010, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: FastFreddie on October 27, 2010, 07:17:43 PM
Quote from: lurking wierdo on October 27, 2010, 06:31:01 PM
Kolb. For the obvious reasons.
(http://www.philaflava.com/forum/images/smiles/dcracistemo0mp.gif) ?
No, Freddie, sorry to disappoint. Ha ha. The obvious reason is that Kolb gives the Eagles the best chance to win a SB. Not jusr games. QB's like Vick have not won the SB. Probably never will.
ok, what's up here ? shawn andrews avatar ? really ?
I think releasing Andrews is the biggest mistake of the Reid/Banner era. I will grant you that Andrews was/is a strange guy. But I also feel that the now healthy Andrews would have been the best player on the Eagles. There, I said it, THE BEST PLAYER ON THE EAGLES. My defense of that statement is that Andrews would have been the only one on the roster who could be considered "the best in the NFL" at their position. Also, I feel that great football begins upfront on the LOS. Therefore, having the best player in the most important position makes you a winner.
so why can't a guy who is the best in the nfl at his position claim a starting position on the giants ?
Yet is the keyword you are missing.
Maybe he'll do it next season. Sometimes a guy just needs three seasons off to travel Europe, find himself, and make YouTube videos.
He's on a mission to find the best Mexican food in NYC.
Reid's starting quarterback: Kevin Vick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVJEeVAnI4&feature=player_embedded
HA! That was spot on.
happy happy joy joy (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?page=hotread08/VickKolb)
QuoteSee Michael Vick, thumbing through his cell phone, casually slumped over at his locker, which happens to sit right next to Kevin Kolb's. Last week, during the Eagles' bye, Vick received a series of text messages. They were from Kolb. One was a picture of a couple of dead turkeys that Kolb bagged during his trip back home to Texas; another featured a wild hog who met an ill fate with a bow. Check out your boy getting his hunting in, is all Kolb remembers typing in a testosterone-charged week of camouflage and reflection.
I'm sure Mike was thrilled to receive photos of animals that were slaughtered by a friend of his.
Maybe Kolb should spend two years in Leavenworth.
Maybe Vick should get a license to kill.
I'd like to change the record. Please let it show that I say:
Vick
Vick
Quote from: Diomedes on November 15, 2010, 11:13:34 PM
I'd like to change the record. Please let it show that I say:
Vick
Vick
This. After the Det and Jax games I thought it would be a good idea to shop him. This is why I don't make football decisions for a living.
I hadn't gone on record yet, but as long as this stays just between us on the message board, I'm willing to go on record for Vick.
I'll go on record as changing what I previously went on record as saying.
Kafka
Quote from: lurking wierdo on November 17, 2010, 10:32:22 AM
Kafka
When you're trying harder and failing more spectacularly than me at being funny, maybe just give up?
I can't believe how well Vick is throwing the ball. He's always had an arm but now he's hitting them in the numbers with accuracy short, medium and long. I can get used to watching him 16 weeks a year for awhile.
Quote from: mussa on November 17, 2010, 10:51:12 AM
I can't believe how well Vick is throwing the ball. He's always had an arm but now he's hitting them in the numbers with accuracy short, medium and long. I can get used to watching him 18 weeks a year for awhile.
That's still only regular season, chump.
Not if you're counting injuries.
...incredible what can change in 2 months...