Everyone who follows Phillies baseball knows that there is a large portion of the fanbase who dislike Abreu and say that he is worthless in the clutch situations and a complete bonehead in the field.
Then there is a minority of fans (I am in this group) that say the "haters" are entirely off base with the negativity that surrounds Bobby A and that he isn't as bad as people make him out to be.
We've all pulled out the batting average, home runs, RBI's, SLG%, OPS, OBP and every other stat known to man to help out whichever side of the Abreu fence we're on. And most often the person who is being presented with these facts turns around the presentation of facts and says "well, its hard to track these accurately because the situation of the game (score, inning, runners on base, etc) aren't documented.
Sun_Mo is one who is on the "Abreu is not clutch" side. I am on the opposite side of the debate. We agreed a few months ago and agreed to start a thread at the beginning of the season that will be kept updated each day for what Bobby does. We will document the inning, who is on base, what the score is and any other pertinent factors and post them in this thread to track what Bobby Abreu does throughout the season.
We ask that you not use the thread for a lot of back and forth banter so the posts with the game updates do not become hard to find. We will use the Phillies Season thread to discuss what Bobby did that night/day and this thread to keep track of the numbers. And at the end of the season we will see who is right and who is wrong.
Each AB will be documented. The most important thing is to track the score of the game situations when he gets hits or drives in runs. So no more of the "well he hit a 3R HR in the 8th inning of a 10-2 blowout" stuff.
SEASON STATS UPDATED
Average: .300 (9/30)
Runs: 3
Home Runs: 1
RBI: 7
BB: 4
K: 4
SB: 1
April 3rd vs. St. Louis - Game #1
1st AB
Score: 1-0 Cards
0 runners on base w/ 2 outs
Pitcher: Chris Carpenter (RH)
Singles to CF
2nd AB
Score: 2-0 Cards
Runner on 2B w/ 2 outs
Pitcher: Carpenter
Lined out to 1B
3rd AB
Score: 13-1 Cards
0 runners on base w/ 2 outs
Pitcher: Carpenter
Singles to LCF
Scored on Utley's double
4th AB
Score: 13-4 Cards
0 runners on base w/ 0 outs
Pitcher: Randy Flores (LH)
Struck out looking
5th AB
Score: 13-5 Cards
0 runners on base w/ 0 outs
Pitcher: Brad Thompson (RH)
Grounded out to 2B
Totals: 2/5 0 HR 0 RBI 1 R 0 BB 1 K
i think the best way to analyze this is to take each game he plays and figure out if he had either a negative impact, positive impact, or no impact on the outcome of the game.
for this one, i'd give him a no impact. although, down 2-0 with a runner on 2nd, he didn't get him in, but he did hit the ball hard, just at somebody, that happens.
Agreed. He had no impact on yesterday's game. The only real shot he had to make a play in the field was on the throw home on a SAC fly and Howard cut it off. And on Edmonds' double he hit the cutouff man and Utley threw home which allowed Edmonds to take 3rd on the throw.
Starting tomorrow I will post impact, no impact or bad impact in the final line.
what happened to my banter?
jay gibbons wouldve held pujols at 3rd and hit 4 homers today.
He just choked on it with a 3-1 count in the bottom of the 9th.
so did utley
the good: knocked in the 1st run of the game
the bad: should've had the ball in RF, didn't get a hit with 2 outs and man on 2nd, couldn't get on base to start the 9th.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 05, 2006, 10:26:37 PM
the good: knocked in the 1st run of the game
the bad: should've had the ball in RF, didn't get a hit with 2 outs and man on 2nd, couldn't get on base to start the 9th.
I think the 9th inning was crucial. Anyone who's made the argument that Abreu isn't a "clutch" player got some fuel for their fire after that AB.
not a good day for bobby a!
I don't mind Abreu not getting the catch. What I mind is seeing him ease up on the ball rather than diving for it.
$13.5M should buy you more than that guy.
I'm sorry but that's how I feel. If that makes me a "hater" then so be it.
he didn't even really need to dive for it. he just needed to not pull up, slide, and put his glove out.
i'm not a bobby basher.. i was one of the few that didn't want him traded until they knew what they were going to do with RF afterwards, but shtein dude. your definitely not catching the ball when you pull up like that. at least don't make the catch making a slide for it.
Hey geniuses...guess what? If he dives for it the run scores anyways. And if he dives for it and misses and it gets by him then you have runners on 2nd and 3rd and the run still scores. In that situation you play it like he did and hold the guy to a single.
April 5th vs. St. Louis - Game #2
1st AB
Score: 0-0
Runner on 3rd w/ 1 out
Pitcher: Mark Mulder (LHP)
Sacrifice Fly to LF
2nd AB
Score: 1-1
Runner on 2nd w/ 2 outs
Pitcher: Mulder
Ground out to 1B
3rd AB
Score: 3-1 STL
0 runners on base w/ 2 outs
Pitcher: Mulder
Ground out to 2B
4th AB
Score: 4-3 STL
0 runners on base w/ 0 outs
Pitcher: Jason Isringhausen (RHP)
Ground out to SS
Totals: 0-3 0 HR 1 RBI 0 R 0 BB 0 K - minor impact
Did you even see the play?
It was a short pop fly just over Utley's head, Jay. I'm not saying he had to lay himself out flat to make the catch either. All he had to do was hustle a bit and slide to make it. He didn't even do that.
I told you before I'm not a crazy basher like some of the other fools out there. But that play could have and should have been made. Had he made a better break on the ball and gave it an all-out effort, he could have made the catch and if he jumped up immediately, with the gun he has, he could have held the runner at third.
Of course, we'll never know that now, will we?
Yep, I saw it. And I saw him calling "I got it" on the replay. Then he realized he couldn't get to it and played it on the hop. I had no beef with it falling in because if he dives, the runs still scores.
This is what bothers me about the Abreu stuff. He makes a play that you see happen a lot in the course of a day in the bigs and people act like he is just this lazy bum out there who doesn't care about shtein. That ain't the case. And the whole Bobby hate thing (not on this MB necessarily) has gone to the point where people incessantly bash him for stupid shtein like he's just out there collecting a paycheck and doesn't give two shteins about winning.
Calm down and realize that I simply said that I was disappointed in his effort on that play. He could have and should have made the catch there. That's how I saw it. If you think that's me bashing him irrationally then you're wrong, amigo.
Sorry. :-[
I got 14 messages from my boys at work saying "ooooh, your boy is a bum" and then I log on and see the hate on the Phils MBs too.
are people really blaming this game on bobby? not the pitching, not loserthal, not the offense as a whole accounting for 3 runs? damn this town and their stupidity.
Yes. Because if Bobby makes that catch and holds the runner and doesn't ground out with a runner on 2nd and draws a walk in the 9th we win. At least thats the way some of the nitwits see it, including my ignorant boys.
I could make the obligatory joke about who your "boys" are, but you know, it's too easy.
Bobby still rules!!
My boys = friends.
Something you don't have, jerky.
MDS has to solicit friends with offers of fellatio apparently.
Also - Loserthal handed that game to the Cruds tonight. His throwing error started it and his stillupfronty weak ass ground out to end the game sealed the deal.
I'm all for pitching his ass over the side on the next space shuttle mission.
this is why im depressed. my self-esteem is so low. :(
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on April 05, 2006, 10:42:24 PM
I don't mind Abreu not getting the catch. What I mind is seeing him ease up on the ball rather than diving for it.
$13.5M should buy you more than that guy.
I'm sorry but that's how I feel. If that makes me a "hater" then so be it.
Hater. ;)
I wasn't pleased with that effort, either. To me, it was indecision or uncertainty about making the catch after calling for it.
That being said, that is a play that happens with a fair amount of regularity in MLB. The ball was hit in just the right spot. There isn't an RF that's played regularly that hasn't muffed a play like that several times in the course of a season. Abreu has the Philly spotlight, though, so he gets railed for it more.
Maybe he gets railed for it because he rarely, if ever, gets his fricken uniform dirty playing the position?
I mean, really, how many times have you seen Abreu give up himself to try and make a catch?
Like I said, Geo, for the kind of dough the motherfarger makes, it would be nice to see him play balls-out just once. But you get what you get with him so pulling one's hair out over it is pointless.
while Bobby didn't do much to help them win, he most certainly wasn't at fault for the loss.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 06, 2006, 07:47:19 AM
while Bobby didn't do much to help them win, he most certainly wasn't at fault for the loss.
exactly.
Holy shtein, I can't even believe what I am reading? lmfao.
Pathetic.
Last night's loss was Brett Myers fault. Guess what, folks? He's still not an ace.
I'd go more Lieberthal/Gordon. Myers, his poor performance notwithstanding, only gave up 3 runs.
if anyone gets blamed for last night it was the lack of clutch hitting by utley bell and lieberthal in the 9th...you gotta get a run or two home there...but really no one is at fault....they simply lost to a superior team
The lack of clutch hitting was the bottom line on that game, exactly.
There was plenty of blame to go around last night.
0-13 in the first two games with risp is a bad sign. Walking six batters is worse. Having Loserthal in there at all is inexcusable at this point. He's clearly done so why he's still in the line-up is a question that Manuel had better be prepared to start answering pretty soon.
He's making comments about David Bell's job being "his to lose" so why isn't he saying the same thing about Lieberthal?
you realize that sal fasano is the back up
you really want him starting?
i realize your message board thing is now to hate on leiberthal no matter what but the fact is
they dont have another option right now
Are you honestly suggesting that Fasano isn't a better option than Lieberthal at this point?
:-D
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on April 06, 2006, 09:30:21 AM
Are you honestly suggesting that Fasano isn't a better option than Lieberthal at this point?
:-D
Fasano is a better option, as is the guy they just sent back down Coste.
Agreed.
A platoon of Fasano & Chris Coste would be a much better option than a completely spent Lieberthal, PG.
Fasano and Lieberthal are going to give you the same offensively, maybe Lieberthal gives you a little more, but not much.
Fasano is going to give you so much more defensively, which is what they need. Fasano should play at least 3 times a week.
I think Sun_Mo would be a better option than Lieberthal at this point.
my knees are shot man.
but this is the Bobby A. tracker thread.
take this conversatoin over to the Phillies thread, yo.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on April 06, 2006, 07:30:40 AM
Maybe he gets railed for it because he rarely, if ever, gets his fricken uniform dirty playing the position?
looks like we need to keep an abreu stain count too.
i mean really i've seen him literally napping in RF. and there has been innings at a time where he's sipping some sangria on a lawn chair. lazy bum.
I chuckled at that. Snorted, actually.
Are you honestly suggesting that Fasano isn't a better option than Lieberthal at this point?
absolutely 100% NOT...leiberthal stinks but sal fasano is not even a major leaguer
Okay, IGY.
:-D
fasano has had 38 rbi in the last five years
bottom line is that the Cardinals are a better team than the Phillies and that is why they are 0-2 right now.
Well, Pat Gillick seemed to think that he had something to offer. I'll take Pat Gillick's personnel decision-making skills over yours any day, IGY.
Lieberthal is shot. He's done. He was done last year and would have been sent packing if not for the $7.5M he was owed. Besides, he's always been a favorite of Giles & Monty and loyalty to used-up hacks has always been more important to those idiots than finding players who can actually produce.
look lieberthal sucks...im not defending him...but stop getting all ignant and being like charlie manuel is going to have to answer for not playing sal fasano...SAL FRIGGIN FASANO!...not only is he done but he never was...he is brutal and cannot start in the major leagues
we all know lieberthal sucks...welcome to earth rome...but sal fasano is not the answer....youre going to have to live with lieby for one more year and then move on...so just settle down
Lieberthal is shot. Fasano is better than him. You'd be better than Loserthal at this point.
I don't care if Fasano starts three times a week and Gillick gets someone else in there to start the other three. The bottom line is, Lieberthal is done and has to go.
Fasano can't be worse defensively than Lieberthal, it's scientifically impossible.
Abreu should play catcher and bat eighth.
You'd be better than Loserthal at this point.
i get it...leiberthal is soooooo bad that i would start over him...zzzzzzzzzzzz
but heres the thing you have no idea who sal fasano is...he wasnt even in the majors for two years before last...i repeat: he could not make a major league roster for two years...not even an emergency call up!!
so no matter how much hyperbole you throw out their regarding liebys suckiness he will never be worse than sal fasano
the catching situation is brutal right now...but you must live with it for six more months...six months romey...its a hockey season
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 06, 2006, 10:41:21 AM
the catching situation is brutal right now...but you must live with it for six more months...six months romey...its a hockey season
'cept it's just about everyday for 6 months.
they are an average team...they are going to have a zesty position or two...theyve always had zesty players...leiby is no different...the drama over him is old...he sucks we all get it...
its not like the flyers goaltending where its keeping them from a potential championship...the phillies cant even make the playoffs but we are gonna go ape poopy over the catcher?...they need a #1 pitcher infinitely more than they need a catcher
get esche
as bad as he is at goalie, hed be a better catcher than loserthal
im better than lieberthal
a thread ripping the best player on your horrible team...niiiiiiiiiiiiiice. :yay
best player, nice one.
Who, Lieberthal?
it's almost like killing AI every game, eh Hunt?
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 06, 2006, 12:20:36 PM
it's almost like killing AI every game, eh Hunt?
actually, totally different....baseball isn't nearly the team game basketball is.
Quote from: hunt on April 06, 2006, 12:23:08 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 06, 2006, 12:20:36 PM
it's almost like killing AI every game, eh Hunt?
actually, totally different....baseball isn't nearly the team game basketball is.
Quotea thread ripping the best player on your horrible team...niiiiiiiiiiiiiice. thumbs up
oh yeah, i can see how that's different.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 06, 2006, 12:24:00 PM
Quote from: hunt on April 06, 2006, 12:23:08 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 06, 2006, 12:20:36 PM
it's almost like killing AI every game, eh Hunt?
actually, totally different....baseball isn't nearly the team game basketball is.
Quotea thread ripping the best player on your horrible team...niiiiiiiiiiiiiice. thumbs up
oh yeah, i can see how that's different.
i guess you wouldn't understand.
anyway, where's the iverson tracker thread?...i'd like to mention something about his 35% shooting and 7 turnovers in the biggest game of the season last night.
yowza!
Quote from: hunt on April 06, 2006, 12:34:58 PM
anyway, where's the iverson tracker thread?
It's right here. (http://www.concretefield.com/forum/index.php?topic=15619.0)
a thread ripping the best player on your horrible team...niiiiiiiiiiiiiice. thumbs up
worst post EVAHHHHHHHHHH
Abreu with a 2 out double....Chase knocks him in.
yeah but abreu didnt hustle home
i saw it
on the espn.com gamecast
LOL, I almost put that at the end of my post too....that he didn't run fast enough across the plate. :-D
April 6th vs. St. Louis - Game #3
1st AB
Score: 0-0
0 runners on base w/ 2 outs
Pitcher: Jason Marquis (RH)
Struck out swinging
2nd AB
Score: 1-0 PHL
0 runners on base w/ 2 outs
Pitcher: Marquis
Doubled to LF
3rd AB
Score: 4-2 STL
0 runners on base w/ 0 outs
Pitcher: Marquis
Singled to CF
4th AB
Score: 4-2 STL
0 runners on base w/ 0 outs
Pitcher: Randy Flores (LH)
Grounded out to 2B
Totals: 2/4 0 HR 0 RBI 1 R 0 BB 1 K -no impact
That'd be 2 for 4, Phreak.
My bad. Thanks :yay
Quote from: PhillyGirl on April 06, 2006, 09:32:53 AM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on April 06, 2006, 09:30:21 AM
Are you honestly suggesting that Fasano isn't a better option than Lieberthal at this point?
:-D
Fasano is a better option, as is the guy they just sent back down Coste.
exactly what I was thinking. I don't care if they'd cut Leiby and have to pay his entire salary.
As for Abreu, I didn't see the play everybody is getting so excited about, but I'm used to seeing it too often for an outfielder with "Gold Glove" capabilities. One play that irks me is during the one game when Abreu scored easily and failed to move the bat away from home plate before Utley scored on the same play. I know it seems stupid, but if Utley would have rolled his ankle, we all would be killing Abreu.
The same things we've been saying for years, they don't play as a team, they don't play small ball, their leadoff hitter saw 5 pitches in 3 of his ABs that I saw..... it goes on and on.
Their offense will win them alot of games, their whole season depends on the development on Floyd, Madsen and Myers.
Quote from: troyhstewart on April 07, 2006, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on April 06, 2006, 09:32:53 AM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on April 06, 2006, 09:30:21 AM
Are you honestly suggesting that Fasano isn't a better option than Lieberthal at this point?
:-D
Fasano is a better option, as is the guy they just sent back down Coste.
exactly what I was thinking. I don't care if they'd cut Leiby and have to pay his entire salary.
As for Abreu, I didn't see the play everybody is getting so excited about, but I'm used to seeing it too often for an outfielder with "Gold Glove" capabilities. One play that irks me is during the one game when Abreu scored easily and failed to move the bat away from home plate before Utley scored on the same play. I know it seems stupid, but if Utley would have rolled his ankle, we all would be killing Abreu.
The same things we've been saying for years, they don't play as a team, they don't play small ball, their leadoff hitter saw 5 pitches in 3 of his ABs that I saw..... it goes on and on.
Their offense will win them alot of games, their whole season depends on the development on Floyd, Madsen and Myers.
wheww...thats tough to chew......but I do like Madsen alot soley based on his curveball. He gets the other pitches going he could be big time
Quote from: reese125 on April 07, 2006, 05:05:29 PM
wheww...thats tough to chew......but I do like Madsen alot soley based on his curveball. He gets the other pitches going he could be big time
his curveball is the wild card. it's his change up that's his money pitch.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 07, 2006, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: reese125 on April 07, 2006, 05:05:29 PM
wheww...thats tough to chew......but I do like Madsen alot soley based on his curveball. He gets the other pitches going he could be big time
his curveball is the wild card. it's his change up that's his money pitch.
He's got an awesome high-low on that pitch. If he can produce this year on that pitch, look out because he will be dangerous. He did get ripped last year on that curve though....
did someone say a 12 to 6 curve??
April 7th vs. Los Angeles - Game #4
1st AB
Score: 2-0 LA
Pitcher: Brett Tomko (RH)
Runner on 2nd w/ 1 out
Lined out to LF
2nd AB
Score: 5-0 LA
Pitcher: Tomko
Runner on 1st w/ 1 out
Singled to RF
3rd AB
Score: 5-3 LA
Pitcher: Tomko
0 runners on base w/ 0 outs
Grounded out to 2B
4th AB
Score: 5-3 LA
Pitcher: Hung-Do Kou (LH)
0 runners on base w/ 0 outs
Struck out swinging
Totals: 1/4 0 HR 0 RBI 0 R 0 BB 1 K - no impact
No impact.
::) ::) ::)
;)
You DO know that I wrote that after the HR, right?
April 9th vs. Los Angeles - Game #5
1st AB
Score: 2-0 LA
Pitcher: Derek Lowe (RH)
0 runners on w/ 2 outs
Walk
2nd AB
Score: 3-0 LA
Pitcher: Lowe
Runners on 1st & 2nd w/ 1 out
Walk
3rd AB
Score: 3-2 LA
Pitcher: Lowe
Runner on 1st w/ 1 out
Flied to LF
4th AB
Score: 3-3
Pitcher: Hong-Chi Kuo (LH)
Runner on 1st w/ 2 outs
Pop out to SS in shallow LF
5th AB
Score: 3-3
Pitcher: Tim Hamulack (LH)
Runners on 1st & 2nd w/ 2 outs
WALK OFF 3R HR TO LF!
Totals: 1/3 1 HR 3 RBI 1 R 2 BB 0 K -MAJOR impact
Quote from: PhillyGirl on April 09, 2006, 04:17:43 PM
;)
You DO know that I wrote that after the HR, right?
Yep. Just being equally sarcastic.
Too happy to care, though. The Phils finally won their first!
April 9th vs. Los Angeles - Game #6
1st AB
Score: 0-0
Pitcher: Brad Penny (RH)
Runner on 3rd w/ 1 out
RBI Single to RCF
2nd AB
Score: 1-1
Pitcher: Penny
0 runners on base w/ 0 outs
Walk & then stole 2B
3rd AB
Score: 2-1 LA
Pitcher: Penny
0 runners on base w/ 1 out
Singled off of Penny's leg
4th AB
Score: 5-1 LA
Pitcher: Lance Carter (RH)
Runner on 2nd w/ 1 out
RBI Double to RF
Totals: 3/3 0 HR 2 RBI 0 R 1 BB 0 K 1 SB -Impact
April 10th at Atlanta
1st AB
Score: 0-0
Pitcher: John Thomson (RH)
Runner on 1st w/ 1 out
Struck out swinging
2nd AB
Score:
Pitcher: Thomson
Runners:
Grounded out
3rd AB
Score: 2-1 ATL
Pitcher: Thomson
Runner on 2nd w/ 2 outs
Lined out to SS
4th AB
Score: 3-2 ATL
Pitcher: Oscar Villareal (RH)
Runners on 1st & 3rd w/ 0 outs
SAC FLY TO LF
5th AB
Score: 5-3 ATL
Pitcher: Chris Reitsma (RH)
0 runners on w/ 2 outs
Grounded out to 1st
Totals: 0/4 0 HR 1 RBI 0 R 0 BB 1 K -no impact
Yeah I am two days late with it and missed the 2nd AB because I was sleeping...wanna fight about it?
April 12th at Atlanta - Game #8
1st AB
Score: 0-0
Pitcher: Jorge Sosa (RH)
0 runners on w/ 2 outs
Struck out swinging
2nd AB
Score: 4-0 PHL
Pitcher: Sosa
1st & 3rd w/ 2 outs
WALK
3rd AB
Score: 4-3 PHL
Pitcher: Chuck James (LH)
0 runners on w/ 0 outs
Flied out to LF
4th AB
Score: 6-3 PHL
Pitcher: James
0 runners on w/ 1 out
grounded out to 1st
5th AB
Score: 7-5 PHL
Pitcher: Mike Remlinger (LH)
0 runners on w/ 2 outs
grounded out to 1B
Totals: 0/4 0 HR 0 RBI 0 R 1 BB 1 K -no impact
Bobby had some key hits and scored the winning run after a great at-bat in which he fought off a ton of fouls before drawing a walk. In case anyone's keeping track, that's 2 out of 3 wins he's majorly contributed to.
hes the best player on the team
why hes under a microscope ill never understand
because he shinks like ocean water schlong when the pressure's on.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 07:57:26 AM
hes the best player on the team
why hes under a microscope ill never understand
Utley is IMO
Utley may be some day, but he needs to become more consistent. And I love the kid- he'll be a good one.
Right now (and for the past 6 years or so), Abreu is by far the best overall player on the team.
Quote from: jms246 on April 14, 2006, 08:01:48 AM
because he shinks like ocean water schlong when the pressure's on.
interesting
and your a poet :yay
Quote from: Geowhizzer on April 14, 2006, 08:04:32 AM
Utley may be some day, but he needs to become more consistent. And I love the kid- he'll be a good one.
Right now (and for the past 6 years or so), Abreu is by far the best overall player on the team.
define best?
Utley became the one player that every fan wanted to see hit in a key situation. He's everything that most of the veterans on the Phillies lack: ability, clutch performance, heart and some form of leadership
abreu has four career walk offs...he cant be that bad under pressure
utley is nice but im not ready to say hes better than abreu...abreu just does so much offensively...keep in mind being the phillies best player should come with an asterik and abreu isnt a hall of famer or anything...but the scrutiny and criticism he gets is way over the top
he also had some nice catches in the 3rd...but lets face it, he should have been able to leap 50 feet in the air and not catch them so close to the ground. lazy bum.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 08:12:25 AM
abreu has four career walk offs...he cant be that bad under pressure
three
and for those three walkoffs, theres a number of times when all he needed to do was make contact with the ball to drive in a run and he couldn't do it.
Quote from: jms246 on April 14, 2006, 08:16:51 AM
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 08:12:25 AM
abreu has four career walk offs...he cant be that bad under pressure
three
and for those three walkoffs, theres a number of times when all he needed to do was make contact with the ball to drive in a run and he couldn't do it.
keep in mind when someone is hitting .350 with RISP....that means 65% of the time he misses
and for those three walkoffs, theres a number of times when all he needed to do was make contact with the ball to drive in a run and he couldn't do it.
as there are with all players...some are better than abreu at it and some are worse...there is no real reason other than king going on the radio about it ad nauseum last year that anyone would be talking about it...in fact it was never ever brought up before he did that...as its not being brought up this year...its a non issue
i've been bringing it up for years, because people can't leave it alone that he's a good player, they take it too farging far, they make him out to be Willie Mayes Jr.
There is a reason, he is harassed. Its so hard not to scrutinize someone that is consistently lazy when playing their position. Even worse, Abreu cant see his own flaws. That would be a sign of truly great player, but its called heart
Im not questioning his skills and his batting resume, I just think that when you define somone as the BEST player, its overall. But, its everyones opinion so whatever
Quote from: reese125 on April 14, 2006, 08:22:56 AM
There is a reason, he is harassed. Its so hard not to scrutinize someone that is consistently lazy when playing their position. Even worse, Abreu cant see his own flaws. That would be a sign of truly great player, but its called heart
Im not questioning his skills and his batting resume, I just think that when you define somone as the BEST player, its overall. But, its everyones opinion so whatever
I can remember that same argument being used on one Michael Jack Schmidt.
"He doesn't care. He's too cool. He doesn't play hard/dirty/etc."
Problem was that Schmidt was so damn good he made it look easy.
And NO, I am not comparing Abreu the player with Schmidt. Schmidt was the best 3B ever to play the game. Abreu is a really good player.
IGY, I remember reading an article last season that said that Abreu could be an outside chance at the HOF (I quickly tried to find it, but the internet being what it is, I couldn't find a year old article). But, looking at Abreu's stats at age 31, I don't think he's even close (less than 200 career HRs, 2 seasons 30+ HR, 4 seasons 100+ RBI, 240+ SB, .303 career average, 2 All-Star appearances). He's been a good player, perhaps even a very good player, but not a HOF player.
It's telling that, accoring to baseball-reference.com (http://www.baseballreference.com/a/abreubo01.shtml), Abreu is most similar to Brian Giles as a hitter.
Im not questioning his skills and his batting resume, I just think that when you define somone as the BEST player, its overall.
but he IS the best all around player...like i said its with an asterik as the phils dont have any great players but he is the best...that doesnt mean hes willie mays...i dont know whos saying that...ive never heard it...hes a borderline all-star nothing more nothing less
if you want to say hes not the best player on the team and utley is im not gonna argue but thats irrelevant...it still doesnt warrant the scrutiny abreu gets...i could start a chase utley watch and the results are going to essentially be the same...hes going to get some big hits and hes gonna get out in some big spots
Schmidt was the best 3B ever to play the game.
Brooks Robinson was IMO, and it is highly debateable. Just dont feel like writing 3 pgs on it
Brooks Robinson was IMO, and it is highly debateable
its really not tho
as a fielder
brooks>>schmidt
as a hitter
schmidt>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone
unless you are 60 years old...you have not see either player play on an every day basis at all. so all your speculation of robinson, and schmidt is based on highlight reels and 2nd, sometimes 3rd generation recaps of what they did.
i saw schmidt play on a almost daily basis for about ten years...robinson no but ive seen plent of highlites and i live outside of baltimore now where hes a hero and even most oriole fans admit schmidt was better
in this case tho you dont need to have seen either player...the discrepency in the stats is so enormous that only a retarded crack addict would say brooks robinson was a better player than mike schmidt
do you know how farged up your life is if you are addicted to crack and retarded? yikes.
in this case tho you dont need to have seen either player...the discrepency in the stats is so enormous that only a retarded crack addict would say brooks robinson was a better player than mike schmidt
go check ALL those stats again slick
and before you go and Google for 15 minutes and throw out 90 stats for me IGY, remember that just because you think Schmidt was the best of 3rd baseman of all-time, doesnt mean your word is gold my man. Its an opinion and there is supporting evidence on Brooks and Hall of Famers who agree.
trust me ive done it many times...its not close...schmidt destroys brooks in some categories and would in EVERY category were it not for the fact that brooks has like 3000 more at bats than schmitty
you have no argument...belee dat
Quote from: reese125 on April 14, 2006, 09:43:01 AM
and before you go and Google for 15 minutes and throw out 90 stats for me IGY, remember that just because you think Schmidt was the best of 3rd baseman of all-time, doesnt mean your word is gold my man. Its an opinion and there is supporting evidence on Brooks and Hall of Famers who agree.
career average
schmidt = .267
robinson = .267
high/low average, min 81 games
schmidt = .316 (1981)/.196 (first full year, 1973)
robinson = .317 (1964)/.201(last full year, 1975)
career HR
schmidt = 548
robinson = 268
Career Feilding
schmidt = .961 feilding %, 328 errors
robinson = .971 feilding %, 264 errors
high/low career errors (100+games)
schmidt = 27 E 1980 / 8 E 1986
robinson = 22 E 1957 / 11 E 1962
career awards
schmidt = 12 All Star, 8x HR leader, 4x RBI leader, 3x MVP, 10x Gold Glove, 1980 WS MVP
robinson = 15 All Star, rbi leader 1964, 1964 AL MVP, 1970 World Series MVP, 16x Gold Glove
thats the thing Wing, I never proclaimed it to be so with such conviction like IGY. I could care less, but when you get put on blast that "you have to be a crack addict and retarded" to believe Brooks is better, then there is a debate....as your stats prove there
yeah if you chose fielding % as one of your numbers
weve already said he was a better fielder...but not by miles...where as schmidt was so much better offensively it wasnt even funny
schmidt was the best hr hitter of his time and still hit for average as well as brooks
youre actually posting some numbers that hurt your case
again schimdt has some offensive numbers that were better than brooks in 3000 less at bats...thats like five six seasons worth
brooks wasnt even as good as eddie mathews or george brett much less mike schmidt...brooks was more on par with a buddy bell or wade boggs
brooks wasnt even as good as eddie mathews or george brett much less mike schmidt...brooks was more on par with a buddy bell or wade boggs
You looooooove Google....hahaha
google told me mike schmidt was better than brooks robinson??
basically your argument is blown out of the water so you flip mo...i dont blame you
trust me ive been in theis argument with many orioles fans over the years more times than i can count...and i get most of them seeing the truth by the end just as you are now
Quote from: reese125 on April 14, 2006, 09:57:13 AM
brooks wasnt even as good as eddie mathews or george brett much less mike schmidt...brooks was more on par with a buddy bell or wade boggs
You looooooove Google....hahaha
research is not a bad thing.
research is not a bad thing.
precisely...thats what makes baseball so great...comparing numbers...its what these discussions are all about...and like i said ive researched this along long time ago after the first time it came up
We're heading to 3 pages anyway. >:D
Here is my summarization:
FieldingBrooks Robinson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/robinbr01.shtml):
- Best fielding 3rd baseman ever
- 16 gold gloves
- Lifetime Fielding %: .971 (League Avg. .953)
- Range Factor: 3.10 (League Avg. 2.74)
Mike Schmidt (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/schmimi01.shtml):
- 2nd best fielding 3rd baseman ever
- 10 gold gloves
- Fielding %: .955 (League Avg. .949
- Range Factor: 3.00 (League Avg. 2.45)
Note: Scott Rolen is probably also entering this argument (better fielding percentage but less range than Schmidt).
TELLING STAT: Schmidt had two seasons (at 3B) where his fielding average was better than Robinson's career average. While their range was comparable, Robinson was much more consistent.
OffenseRobinson:
- Above average power (268 HRS)
- 1357 RBI in 23 season (19 full)
- .267 lifetime average
- .322 OBP / .401 SLG / .723 OPS
- was not the centerpiece of the lineup (Frank Robinson, arguably Boog Powell both ahead of him offensively)
- 2 100+ RBI seasons
- ZERO seasons 30+ HR
- 6 seasons 20+ HR
- 15 Time All-Star
- 1 MVP
- Top 3 similar hitters: Rusty Staub, Budy Bell, Robin Yount
Schmidt:
- Great power (548 HR)
- 1595 RBI in 18 seasons (16 full)
- .267 lifetime average
- .380 OBP / .527 SLG / .908 OPS
- was THE centerpiece of the lineup 1979-1988 (From 1974-1978, Greg Luzinski above or equal)
- 9 100+ RBI seasons
- 3 seasons 40+ HR
- 10 additional seasons 30+ HR
- Only 2 full seasons less than 20 HR (18 in 1973, 12 in 1988)
- 12 time all-star
- 3 time MVP
- Top 3 similar hitters: Eddie Matthews, Sammy Sosa, Ken Griffey Jr.
Telling stat: Brooks Robinson's BEST Slugging Percentage (.521 in 1964) and BEST OPS (.889 in 1964) in any one season are both lower that Schmidt's CAREER AVERAGE (.527 and .908).
Argument Summary:
DISCLAIMER: No, Wingspan, I did not get to see Robinson play more than a couple of times (I was 6 when he retired).
If you want to argue who was the better fielding third baseman, Robinson will win hands down. He did things with the glove that no one has equalled. Schmidt approached it- he was brilliant in the field, but less consistent statistically than Robinson. However, the disparity in their fielding prowess is more than made up for by the grand canyon that separates them offensively. While their career batting averages were equal, Schmidt was on base much more often (nearly .060 difference in OBP- Schmidt walked over 500 more times than Robinson in 5 less - 3 less complete- seasons), and was much more productive (nearly 300 more runs scored, nearly 250 more RBI, more than double the number of homers). In his earlier career, Schmidt even had speed: he had more stolen bases in 1975 (29) than Robinson did in his career (28). To be completely fair, Robinson had more hits (2848 to 2234 in 2300+ additional at bats) doubles (482 to 408) and triples (68 to 59).
Robinson's superiority with the glove is more than made up for by Schmidt's dominance with the bat.
Advantage: Schmidt.
real talk
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 10:00:32 AM
google told me mike schmidt was better than brooks robinson??
basically your argument is blown out of the water so you flip mo...i dont blame you
trust me ive been in theis argument with many orioles fans over the years more times than i can count...and i get most of them seeing the truth by the end just as you are now
is that a Busta Rhymes saying? Explain please
I think Ill ask these guys and keep my very valid, opinion--regardless of defense or not, overall was the argument--it can go both ways--so no crack smoking here killer
"Brooks never asked anyone to name a candy bar after him. In Baltimore, people named their children after him." -Gordon Beard
"Brooks Robinson belongs in a higher league." -Pete Rose
"He was the best defensive player at any position. I used to stand in the outfield like a fan and watch him make play after play. I used to think WOW, I can't believe this." -Frank Robinson
"Don't hit to that fellow." -Casey Stengel
"He plays third base like he came down from another league." -Ed Hurley
"He can throw his glove out there and it will start ten double plays by itself." -Sparky Anderson
"He changed everything. He reacted as the ball was coming off the bat, sometimes as it was coming to the bat." -George Brett
"I once thought of giving his some tips but dropped the idea. He's just the best there is." -Pie Traynor
"In the future, Brooks Robinson will be the standard every third baseman will be measured by." -Jim Murray
"I'm beginning to see Brooks in my sleep. If I dropped a paper plate, he'd pick it up on one hop and throw me out at first." -Sparky Anderson
"I will become a left-handed hitter to keep the ball away from that guy." -Johnny Bench
"That guy can field a ball with a pair of pliers." -Pete Rose
"The baseball park was no place for his performances. He should have played at Carnegie Hall." -Furman Bisher
I love Google Wing
Reese, stop letting WIP form your opinion on Abreu for you. You regurgitate what those baseball challenged hosts say.
And I'll have Abreu's stuf up from last night and tonight sometime tomorrow.
like I said, Im not questioning his skills and what he does as far as hitting %, but you cant deny how he performs in the outfield. He almost shows it every night as some point. That was my argument, I could care less about what Howard or anyone else says
And here's the biggest problem with the people who bitch about the defense of Bobby. Yes, we know he isn't great. We know he avoids walls like they have spikes sticking out of them. We know he doesn't dive headfirst for balls. But the Abreu bitchers love to say its because he is lazy and doesn't care. That stuff is passed down from the clueless ones on the radio and the lemmings who follow their every word as THE TRUTH.
Here's a not-so-big-secret about MLB and some of the players...
Many players can hit like crazy but their defense is lacking in a bad way.
Have you seen what David Ortiz looks like playing 1B? Hackariffic.
Have you ever watched Mike Piazza catch in his career? Terrible.
There are quite a few other players who could be given as examples too. But you know what? They are in there because they can hit.
And when you look at Abreu's numbers - HE PRODUCES!
What more can you ask for than run production, a very good average, stolen bases and a player who works pitchers better than Ron Jeremy works over broads? Sure you'd love to have the all around player. But what we've got is a guy who is very good at one aspect of the game and average in another.
He takes way too much heat in this town. And don't even get me started on the "hollow numbers" thing. If that wa a one or two year thing maybe I would agree. But you do not accidentally put up Abreu's numbers. To do that you must be a good ballplayer.
The end.
Quote from: reese125 on April 14, 2006, 11:05:27 PM
like I said, Im not questioning his skills and what he does as far as hitting %, but you cant deny how he performs in the outfield. He almost shows it every night as some point. That was my argument, I could care less about what Howard or anyone else says
did you watch thursdays game? somehow i doubt it. he had 3 or 4 really nice plays.
and Ryan Madson had 3 hits, he must be Ted Williams.
yeah, that's something that really takes it to the house regarding abreu bashing.
the longer the abreu haters go on, the more foolish they look...and it becomes obvious that they base their perception on isolated incidents, rather than his overall play....
while not abreu related, persay....i offer this example...
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 14, 2006, 10:30:11 PM
i DVR'd the game and just watched the 1st inning, Charlie genius lineup strikes again. Howard gets intentionally walked to load the bases for Bell, not Nunez, and of course he doesn't get a hit.
farg Bell
farg charlie
final score of reffered game...
10-8
oh...an nunez sucks too...
abreu is a better fielder than howard or utley the two golden boys who can do no wrong
i dont know what the talk of a great phillies is. burrell and utley and howard are average to mediocre fielders. bell and abreu and lieberthal suck. rollins is gold glove material, and rowand is supposed to be but we havent seen it yet.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 15, 2006, 02:52:21 PM
abreu is a better fielder than howard or utley the two golden boys who can do no wrong
As much as I like Howard, I agree about his defense so far. There have been 3-4 plays that he should've made so far that he hasn't and it cost them a run or two.
Utley is OK with his fielding, but his throwing is a minor problem. That Kerry Collinsesque hitch he throws with sometimes make it hard for him when he turns a DP because he drops his arm and it takes too much time. Last night he made a bad throw that should've been a DP.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 15, 2006, 02:52:21 PM
abreu is a better fielder than howard or utley the two golden boys who can do no wrong
incorrect.
Quote from: Wingspan on April 15, 2006, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 14, 2006, 10:30:11 PM
i DVR'd the game and just watched the 1st inning, Charlie genius lineup strikes again. Howard gets intentionally walked to load the bases for Bell, not Nunez, and of course he doesn't get a hit.
farg Bell
farg charlie
final score of reffered game...
10-8
oh...an nunez sucks too...
i can understand why you follow me around in baseball threads Wing, you can learn things.
today's lesson, just because a flawed lineup puts up 10 runs on a below mediocre pitcher doesn't mean that said lineup is not flawed.
if you think that David Bell should be playing everyday and that Ryan Howard is in the correct lineup spot, more power to you. i wonder how you manage to get your pants on each day.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 17, 2006, 08:35:35 AM
Quote from: Wingspan on April 15, 2006, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 14, 2006, 10:30:11 PM
i DVR'd the game and just watched the 1st inning, Charlie genius lineup strikes again. Howard gets intentionally walked to load the bases for Bell, not Nunez, and of course he doesn't get a hit.
farg Bell
farg charlie
final score of reffered game...
10-8
oh...an nunez sucks too...
i can understand why you follow me around in baseball threads Wing, you can learn things.
today's lesson, just because a flawed lineup puts up 10 runs on a below mediocre pitcher doesn't mean that said lineup is not flawed.
if you think that David Bell should be playing everyday and that Ryan Howard is in the correct lineup spot, more power to you. i wonder how you manage to get your pants on each day.
no one said it wasn't flawed mr semantic mcliteral.
first of all, bell sucks...but so does nunez. you wont get shtein from either player, it doesnt matter which one of those two are in the lineup.
but SOMEONE has to hit 6th. and it has to be a lefty...right now the lineup looks like this
S (Rollins)
R (Rowand)
L (Abreu)
R (Burrell)
L (Utley)
L (Howard)
R (Bell) or S (Nunez)
R (either zesty catcher)
P
you simply can not have the 3-4-5 spots all lefties. it's stupid, and bad baseball.
where do you put howard if you move him? 4th? if you switch with burrell, it gives you the 6-7-8 spot all righties. which also means you cannot hit rowand in the 6 spot either.
Quote"He can throw his glove out there and it will start ten double plays by itself." -Sparky Anderson
"I'm beginning to see Brooks in my sleep. If I dropped a paper plate, he'd pick it up on one hop and throw me out at first." -Sparky Anderson
2 quality quotes from one of my favorite all time baseball personalites.
My apologies for not posting updates. I've been busy as hell. Maybe I can start again tomorrow...
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 18, 2006, 06:58:14 PM
My apologies for not posting updates. I've been busy as hell. Maybe I can start again tomorrow...
Trying to put together those mock drafts, eh?
Yes, of course. ;D
That and working like crazy.
He admitted to costing the Phils last night's game. MAJOR NEGATIVE IMPACT
2 run HR in the 8th to bring within 1
leadoff walk in the 10th, scored the winning run.
the bum should homered in the 10th. major negative impact!
Bobby's had a great start to the season, some fielding faux pas aside. He gave really good effort on the pop foul too.
Morning Bytes | Writer's plea: Stop me before I boo again
By Frank Fitzpatrick
Inquirer Columnist
My name is Frank. And I've got a problem.
I boo.
I've heard the first step in helping yourself is admitting you've got a problem.
Well, I've got a big one.
And I'm not the only one it's hurting. It's beginning to affect the teams I love.
Take the Phillies.
Bobby Abreu might be the best pure hitter they've had in my lifetime. So the guy misplays a fly ball Tuesday night and what do I do?
I boo.
Thirteen games into a 162-game season, and I boo my team's best player.
What have I become? I'm so ashamed. Can't you please help me stop?
This mad desire to boo is ruining my capacity to enjoy sporting events. It's contributing to a poisonous atmosphere in ballparks and arenas where players and less-vocal fans ought to feel at ease.
They say you've got to hit rock bottom before you can begin to pick yourself up. Well, I hit it Tuesday. And as I sat there, I realized how foolish I'd been all these years.
I'm beginning to think that maybe people like me are why no Philly team has won a championship in 23 years. Maybe players press when they know their most innocent miscue is likely to be jeered and ridiculed.
Having said all that, I don't think I need to stop cold turkey.
I mean, what's the harm in booing David Bell or Geoff Geary every now and then? Or Charlie Manuel?
But when I boo our best player, on opening day, or even in the 13th game, well, I've got to be stopped.
I know what's going to happen now. I've seen it many times before.
Abreu will slump. The boos will get louder, meaner. He'll demand a trade. We'll get three useless prospects for him. And we'll forget about him until his Hall of Fame induction.
I used to think it was my birthright as a Philadelphia fan to boo at the drop of a hat, or a pop-up. But once you start, it gets in your blood and takes over your soul. You can't stop.
Before I knew it, I was acting irrationally. I tried to live up to the image of a true Philly fan. I booed Dick Allen. I booed Mike Schmidt. I booed Ron Jaworski. My God, I even booed Wilt.
And I always had an excuse for my dark-side stupidity.
They stank in the clutch. They didn't care. They wasted their talent.
Well, maybe they disappointed me because I disappointed them.
I've been boo-free for two games now. It feels good.
Anyway, after I had my epiphany Tuesday night, I left Citizens Bank Park and walked over to see the 76ers at the Wachovia Center.
It was Fan Appreciation Night.
At least there I'd have no reason to boo.
i stopped at Abreu in the HOF, lol
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 21, 2006, 02:24:32 PM
i stopped at Abreu in the HOF, lol
i wouldnt laugh too hard....
if his career ended today...no way in hell he's a HOFer.
however if he goes another 9 years at the same pace, he'll have over 400 HRs, and 500 stolen bases...and a career .300 hitter. he has durability on his side too, he hasnt missed more than 10 games in any year since 1998.
getting into the HOF is not that exclusive anymore, and is more of a numbers game....and i would highly highly doubt he ever gets a 1st ballot shot...but 10 years or so after he retires? if he keeps his pace for the next 8 or 9 years (he'll be 38/39 years old then)...then he would totally have a shot at it.
hof is not the issue tho...its the ridiculous amount of haters he has...he isnt making the hall of fame...but the fact that it would even be brought up shows how retarded the hate is
Bobby had another late inning big hit tonight. They lost, but he lead off the 8th with a double and scored. And he was in the hole at 1-2 too because of a bad strike call.
I was listening to Eskin on the way home the other day. The day after Bobby hits the 2R HR to make it 6-5 in the b8th.
Know what the King of Abreu Hating says?
It was only the 8th and only a 2R HR. Its not like he tied it or gave them the lead. That HR meant nothing. :-D
Irrational hatred.
And the booing is out of control towards him.
Like I said...the othe night he gets booed because he can get a foul ball before it lands by the stands. He makes a good effort and slides but its one that he wasn't going to get. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Sal Fasano drops a can o' corn pop-up and Vidro singles home a run immediatley after? Cheers for Sal after he dropped the ball.
Sal throws through to 2nd tonight and a guy scores to give them a 4-0 lead. Boo? Not at all. No reaction to King Sal.
I like Sal. But jeez.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 21, 2006, 10:55:20 PM
I like Sal. But jeez.
I don't. That's two games in a row from him. Drawn and quartered.
Makes Lieberthal look like Randy Hundley.
Bobby A jumps and hits the wall to make a very nice catch tonight and save extra bases.
You want him on that wall! You need him on that wall!!
Also, he is having some quality AB's lately. Seeing a lot of pitches and picking his pitch or taking the walk and putting runners on.
He's playing well.
He is also hitting .400+ with RISP.
not clutch lazy bad rf booooooooooo
We're missing 8 years of updates. You fail Hentz.
lol....awesome re up
I just read this entire thread. It starts off well enough and Phreak seemed dedicated to tracking every Abreu at bat.....for about a week. Then a Schmidt/Robinson argument broke out for about 4 or 5 pages before sort of getting back to Abreu so it could slowly die.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 25, 2014, 12:08:14 AM
I just read this entire thread.
did you ever knooooooo that your my heeeeeeero.....
Haha holy shtein I forgot about this...nice pull.
Quote from: SD on January 24, 2014, 09:48:54 PM
We're missing 8 years of updates. You fail Hentz.
hahaha
BTW... I was reading the 2006 regular season thread. Some of the comments in that thread are pure gold. It's amazing how many regulars we've lost here since then, though. Wow.
Quote from: Rome on January 25, 2014, 08:23:27 AMIt's amazing how many regulars we've lost here have been driven away by the hippos since then, though. Wow.
Here's Abreu's career stats
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/abreubo01.shtml
His best years were clearly with the Phils. They did right by getting rid of him because it forced other players to step up. If he makes the team - which I don't think is far fetched since they need a left handed bat coming off the bench - he only needs 13 HRs to hit 300. He has 399 steals, and 2437 hits. So if he hits 13 HRs, gets 63 hits, and one steal, he could finish his career with 300 HRs, 400 SBs, and 2500 hits. Very good career numbers. Not the biggest Abreu fan but he was hitting really well in the Venezuela so these numbers might not be far fetched.
i went through this thread...the best part is rome pimping for sal fasano.
of all the stupid discussions/debate in phillies lore, fasano vs. lieberthal might top them all. SAL FASANO! who was never even a 3rd catcher that you could stash in AAA was being made into johnny bench. all because he had a vowel at the end of his last name and a stupid mustache. if his name was salvador fernandez or even sam fraiser no one would care.
white people.
tell me i didnt pimp for him
no you were saying how much he sucked
pg...sunmo...all them are all over fasano's italian italianess and greasy guido hair. it was disturbing.
i knew i didnt....he was a pos
Quote from: MDS on January 25, 2014, 07:32:54 PM
no you were saying how much he sucked
pg...sunmo...all them are all over fasano's italian italianess and greasy guido hair. it was disturbing.
nooooooooooooo!!!
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1107/memorable.mustaches/images/sal-fasano.jpg)
zero doubt in my mind he eats Hoyda
(http://hypervocal4.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/looney_cameos_ghost_thumb.jpg)
haha yep that is him...any time I'd see him on TV I think of that dude
Quote from: Rome on April 06, 2006, 10:34:19 AM
Lieberthal is shot. Fasano is better than him. You'd be better than Loserthal at this point.
I don't care if Fasano starts three times a week and Gillick gets someone else in there to start the other three. The bottom line is, Lieberthal is done and has to go.
2006 stats:
OPS
fasno - 669
lieby - .784
OPS+
faasno - 67
lieby - 94
homers
fasano - 0
lieby - 9
war
fasano - -0.0
lieby - 0.9
mds is now a bot pulling up old ass threads
for some reason i clicked on this and i read through the SAL FASANO talk and couldnt resist
i mean this place has had a ton of dumb conversations and dumb hot takes over the years, myself included most def, but romey and others pining for sal god damn fasano is special and deserve to be remembered
Quote from: MDS on January 25, 2014, 07:12:46 PM
i went through this thread...the best part is rome pimping for sal fasano.
of all the stupid discussions/debate in phillies lore, fasano vs. lieberthal might top them all. SAL FASANO! who was never even a 3rd catcher that you could stash in AAA was being made into johnny bench. all because he had a vowel at the end of his last name and a stupid mustache. if his name was salvador fernandez or even sam fraiser no one would care.
white people.
If anyone ever suggests Todd is a one trick pony repeating stream of diarrhea, just point to this as proof.
thats not bad actually
and also a sign i cant remember anything...but dont change the subject jef with one f. SAL FASANO.