Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[Susquehanna Birder]

that is not a fact.  I want the draft.  q.e.d.

I kind of think that required service, kind of the way the Israel does it, would be a good thing.

[Sgt PSN]

whatever you think james madison meant doesnt matter. the fact is its 2010 and no one wants a draft.

other than the fact that james madison didn't have anything to do with writing the constitution, jew boy is right. 

the constitution itself was an extremely short sighted document, which is why we have the bill of rights.  of the authors of the constitution deemed it flawless, then the bill of rights would have been completely uneccessary to begin with. 

when the constitution was signed, there were only a handful of states and the population of the entire union was probably less than most large cities today.  the bill of rights is what makes the constitution a "living document."  it gives this country the ability to grow and allows us the opportunity to shape our laws so that they may be appropriate for the times.  and in 2010 a draft is highly inappropriate. 

[MDS]

notice how the person who actually served doesnt think there should be a draft? and the person who would be drafted doesnt want one? yet, the two middle aged dudes who wouldnt be touched want one.

there you go.

also isnt madison considered the "godfather of the constitution"? im not a history geek but that has to count for something.

[Munson]

Jewboy is wrong for saying it's unconstitutional.


Sarge is wrong for saying that the Father of the Constitution had nothing to do with...the Constitution.


Lets all have make up buttsecks now.

[Sgt PSN]

that is not a fact.  I want the draft.  q.e.d.

I kind of think that required service, kind of the way the Israel does it, would be a good thing.

i think the way israel does it is good for israel.  and i think that what we've got going on right here is just fine for us.  in fact, i would argue that in the post-draft era our average soldier/sailor/airman/marine is stronger, smarter and more motivated than ever which in turn, gives us a stronger, smarter military as a whole.  why?  because the people in the military want to be there.  they chose to be there and as a result, they are more willing to work hard and train hard and become true professionals in their chosen field. 

i don't want a draft because i don't want someone who doesn't want to be there.  i don't want to have to babysit some snotty punk who complains all freaking day and doesn't have the motivation to get his job done because he'd rather be in college or working on a farm or sitting on the couch smoking pot.  i don't have time for that shtein.  and if we're in combat, i damn sure don't want to worry about him not wanting to be there and hiding in his fighting hole while the rest of us are getting shot at.  i need to move forward and i can't do that if some kid's got his head buried in the sand because he's there against his will. 

there should never EVER be required military service for citizens of this country.  if you get up everyday, go to work, pay your taxes and aren't a drain on society then you're more than doing your fair share imo.  and whenever the time comes for us to go to war, either grab a rifle and lay down some grazing fire or just keep your ass back in the states and do something productive. 

[MDS]

well a miserable middle aged person in baltimore who posts on a football message board even though he hates sports and hasnt even sniffed the military wants a draft so farg YOU SARGE

[Susquehanna Birder]

notice how the person who actually served doesnt think there should be a draft? and the person who would be drafted doesnt want one? yet, the two middle aged dudes who wouldnt be touched want one.

there you go.

also isnt madison considered the "godfather of the constitution"? im not a history geek but that has to count for something.

No, he's the Father of the Constitution. He's responsible for a major part of the content, including the Bill of Rights.

BTW...I signed up for selective service like anybody my age, and I would have served if called. And I have children who could also be drafted. So lets not assume that I have no interest in such things.

[Sgt PSN]

Sarge is wrong for saying that the Father of the Constitution had nothing to do with...the Constitution.

lol....i had a major brain fart there.  i saw james madison but for whatever reason, ben franklin was coming to mind and that's what i was thinking of. 

but as for the "father of our constitution" i'd contend that it's actually gouverneur morris who was in charge of assembling the committee to draft the constitution and was also the one who took all of the ideas, put them together and drafted the final product. 

[Susquehanna Birder]

Sarge, I think mandatory service would be a nightmare here, mostly because of the sheer numbers it would involve. It works better for a small country like Israel, but it would become even more of an organization clusterfarg than it is now if it got any bigger. And the cost would be even more astronomical than it is now.

Still, I like the idea of a fair system that exposes everybody to service.

[MDS]

notice how the person who actually served doesnt think there should be a draft? and the person who would be drafted doesnt want one? yet, the two middle aged dudes who wouldnt be touched want one.

there you go.

also isnt madison considered the "godfather of the constitution"? im not a history geek but that has to count for something.

No, he's the Father of the Constitution. He's responsible for a major part of the content, including the Bill of Rights.

BTW...I signed up for selective service like anybody my age, and I would have served if called. And I have children who could also be drafted. So lets not assume that I have no interest in such things.

but again you, and i, havent sniffed military service. ask most people who actually know things about the military, sarge, my roommate, whoever, and theyll tell you the draft is a terrible idea.

but lets not listen to them and pretend were israel.

[Sgt PSN]

BTW...I signed up for selective service like anybody my age, and I would have served if called. And I have children who could also be drafted. So lets not assume that I have no interest in such things.

very few people would be unaffected with the return of the draft.  almost everyone has a kid, sibling, cousin, friend, co-worker, spouse, etc, etc who would be draft eligible.  so i personally don't factor your age (or dio's age) into the argument. 

however, when it comes to fighting a war and essentially defending freedoms, would you rather it be done by people who volunteered to go or people who were voluntold?  more importantly, if one of your kids were in the military, would you want their safety to be in the hands of people who don't really want to be there? 

[Susquehanna Birder]

I'd actually rather it not have to be done at all. But I totally understand what you're saying, and based on the way things are right now, you have a valid point.

[Sgt PSN]

Still, I like the idea of a fair system that exposes everybody to service.

i can't say for certain that all branches do this, but i know the marines do......we actually offer "workshops" for civilians to spend a couple of weeks at boot camp and on active duty bases around the world to give them a closer look at what we do.  so anyone who wants a taste of the military without obligating 4 years of their life, that's the way to go. 

and the truth is, the military isn't for everyone.  it's not supposed to be.  and personally, i don't want it to be.  not because i think it makes me better than any other person but because it takes a special breed to do it for 4 years and even more special (or retarded) to make a career out of it.  it's not for the fat, slow and weak.  it's not for complainers.  it's not for people who are afraid to get their hands dirty and do some manual labor.  it's not for people who don't want knee and lower back problems for the rest of their lives.  it's not for people who are afraid of challenges....mentally, physically or emotionally.  it's not for people who want a 9 to 5 with weekends off.  it's not for people who want to buy a house and raise a family in it for the next 30 years. 

would the american population maybe have a better sense of how valuable our freedoms are if they all served?  probably.  would it make them better citizens or make our country better?  i highly doubt it.  in fact, i'd argue it would do the exact opposite.  we've already got way too many servicemen/women who literally walk around thinking they should be above the law and entitled to certain privileges just because the serve(d).  but at least that's just a small percentage of our population.  the last thing we need is for everyone to feel that way. 

[Rome]

the framers never intended for us to be an empire.  the military has grown beyond our ability to rationally maintain it or curtail it if its leaders decide to turn on us as a republic.

[Diomedes]

I don't think the U.S. would ever have a problem mustering a fine army for a just war. 

The set up we have now is perfect for conducting unjust, needless war.