Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[phillymic2000]

same reason people hate Obama's rise to power, plus Barry is Black

So far nothing about Obama is as slippery and back-room as Clinton. Ultimately we may learn of more similarities eventually, but for now it's not really a fair comparison.

THe Chicago political machine that the President was part of and brought with him is more slippery then Clinton could ever be.

[rjs246]

Clinton was a personal slimeball who was driven by questionable motives but was a great leader and politician.

Obama seems to be a very good person. Family oriented. Well educated. Etc.
Obama seems to be driven by a desire to help the less fortunate. You can agree or disagree with his methods and politics but I wouldn't hold that against him on a personal level.
We don't know how effective he will be as a leader or politician yet.

The comparisons to Clinton don't really hold up as far as I'm concerned. They're both Democrats. The end.

[rjs246]

right winger crazies hated the clintons from the get go...it started long before his blowjob...they cant really explain why but they all did and were out to get them before he was even elected in 92

I think it's pretty easy to explain, actually. The long-standing assumption was that public figures were basically flag-waving, family-loving, church-going boy scout types. Clinton-the-man represented the polar opposite of that. He smoked weed, dodged the draft and cheated on his wife.

Conservatives hated him for that, but it was made even worse that Clinton-the-politician had incredibly appealing, rational and bi-partisan policies that by-and-large worked the way they were supposed to and led to the greatest economic expansion in US history.

They hated him because he ushered in an era of new politicians that could admit to breaking laws and doing drugs and still be elected to office. But even more they hated him because he was successful despite his flaws as a person. Everyone prefers to respect their leaders even if they don't agree with them.

[Sgt PSN]

Clinton was a personal slimeball who was driven by questionable motives but was a great leader and politician.

i'm not trying to argue clinton's effectiveness as pres because he did a lot of great things while in office.  and even though i'm basically arguing semantics here, i gotta say that clinton was a terrible leader if you actually put stock in true meaning of leadership. 

people make mistakes.  people sometimes do the wrong thing.  but leaders have the integrity to own those mistakes, accept responsibility for their actions and do everything they can to regain the trust of the people that they lead.  and imo, all of the great things that clinton was able to acomplish as president lost all value the moment he lied to congress and to the american people.  i don't care about clinton getting a bj from some fat skank in the oval office.  i don't think anyone did except for those on the right who take marriage seriously.  but i do care when my president can't own up to a mistake and lies to the very people who put him in office. 

true leadership is more than just being successful at your job.  it's about doing the right thing, both professionally and personally and setting the example.  those are some of the things that inspire people to follow. 

and given the true nature of politics, it's almost impossible to be both a great politician and a great leader.  because chances are, in order to be successful in politics, you're going to have to lie, cheat and steal your way to the top.  and those are things that a truly great leader doesn't have to do and has the integrity not to do. 

clinton - great politician, terrible leader. 

[rjs246]

Yes, you are arguing semantics.

[Seabiscuit36]

anti semite!

[Sgt PSN]

Yes, you are arguing semantics.

thanks for the confirmation, sweet cheeks. 

[ice grillin you]

right winger crazies hated the clintons from the get go...it started long before his blowjob...they cant really explain why but they all did and were out to get them before he was even elected in 92

Clinton-the-man represented the polar opposite of that. He smoked weed, dodged the draft and cheated on his wife.

replace weed with coke and you have george bush who they loved

[rjs246]

Bush was made possible by Clinton. Slick Willy broke down the barrier that said former drug users and conscientious objectors cannot be Commander in Chief. Now we've had two straight Presidents who have admitted to doing coke. Not possible pre-1992.

Besides, I don't think there's any evidence of W cheating on his wife. Unless I somehow missed that. And he did what all rich boys who's daddy hold office do. He didn't dodge the draft, he joined the National Guard and served when he felt like it. That isn't a far cry from dodging but technically he did serve.

[ice grillin you]

no theres no clear cut evidence of philandering by w...but its pretty well known his wife told him to stop the drugs booze and women or she was leaving...however the point is there was no evidence of clinton having done it before lewinski and again they had it out for clinton before he was even elected in 92

i was being serious when i say i dont think even the pubs know why they initially hated clinton so much....and why they went after him so much harder than any other dem

my best guess would be that they

a) knew how good of a politician he was and how likeable he was and that he was pretty much guaranteed 8 years if he got in

b) the late 80's (after reagan had already let the christian right in the white house and into politics in a huge way) began the politics of personal destruction and by 92 it was in full effect and clinton just happened to be the first dem to fly into the shteinstorm

[rjs246]

Jennifer Flowers.

[ice grillin you]

that was during the 92 campaign and was not believed by anyone

hindsight tells everyone that it probably was true but at the time it was taken as a total smear

[Father Demon]

Maybe I'm late to the party, but now that I've seen the Health Plan Org Chart I'm on board.

[rjs246]

1. Health care is currently on pace to bankrupt the federal government.
2. Health care is currently on pace to bankrupt the state governments.
3. Health care already bankrupts individuals and families.
4. Health care currently allows insurance companies to drop people from coverage when they get sick, which as far as I can tell negates the purpose of health insurance.
5. In addition to these unbelievable facts, health care currently does not cover about 50,000,000 people in our country.

It definitely doesn't need to be reformed. Definitely.

[Father Demon]

And with that kind of oversight shown in the org chart, this is exactly the way to reform it.