See ya Tookie

[henchmanUK]

The State has no right to execute one of its citizens ... if he didn't deserve the needle for these crimes, he most likely did for others.

I believe this is known as a contradiction.

[Butchers Bill]

I'm all four long prison sentences, hard labor etc... but murder is murder no matter who gets killed.

Henchman, don't take this personally but I would like to ask you the same question that someone once asked a US Presidential candidate who was against the death penalty.

Would you support the execution of a man who raped and murdered your wife or daughter?

[henchmanUK]

I'm all four long prison sentences, hard labor etc... but murder is murder no matter who gets killed.

Henchman, don't take this personally but I would like to ask you the same question that someone once asked a US Presidential candidate who was against the death penalty.

Would you support the execution of a man who raped and murdered your wife or daughter?

No. I'd want his freedom robbed and for him to toil for the rest of his life. His death wouldn't bring my wife, daughter or sister back.

[Diomedes]

The death penalty is one of the great ugly smears of shame on America's very dirty face.  I do not support it.  It's a matter of social law/civil rights to me: no truly free state kills it's own citizens by policy, ever.  Ever.  It's one thing for a criminal to kill someone, it's another thing entirely for the state to do it.  The one is unavoidable, heinous human nature, the other is tyranny (a brand of human governement which can be eliminated).  This guy isn't the issue.  Nor are his victims.  The issue is that the government is deciding who lives and who dies.  That's wrong.  It can be stopped.  As a society, we can ensure that we never make the mistake of killing an innocent person simply by stopping to kill any.

Ancillary points that can be well argued:  It's too expensive.  It doesn't deter anyone from committing crimes.  It's unfairly applied.  It puts our nation in the company of the worst goverments in the world. 

Just my thoughts.  Not going to argue with you fools.  Those of you with the Vengence Boners: when you drop the money shot on Jesus' chest, don't forget to shout "Who's your Dio!?!"

[Butchers Bill]

No. I'd want his freedom robbed and for him to toil for the rest of his life. His death wouldn't bring my wife, daughter or sister back.

Well, you answered it much better than he did!   

If it were me, the guy would be lucky to get the death penalty because he would not like what I had in store for him.

[Diomedes]

Would you support the execution of a man who raped and murdered your wife or daughter?

Pro-killing arguments always degenerate to arguments like this.  It's a moot question.  We have juries of our peers, instead of juries of the injured parties, because we civilized people recognize that an injured party cannot administer justice. 

You'll also argue about how evil this guy was.  And shouldn't he die?  And the point isn't this particular guy.  The point is that the government is killing people by policy.   A free people can never allow their own government to kill them.  That's just plain logic.  If you say the government can kill citizens, then you are saying that the government can kill you.  But no one can truly divest himself of sovereignity over himself. 

Or you'll focus on how innocent the victims were.  And you know what, they were.  And it was horrible.  But they're dead.  And we can't stop individual people from killing people.  We can however stop the government from doing it in our name.

Damn.  I said I wasn't going to argue with you fools.  I am teh Suck.

[PhillyGirl]

Has there been any research into what the cost difference is between keeping an animal like that locked up for life vs. the death penalty?

My ultimate feelings are that I'd rather see scumbags like Scott Peterson in a jail cell being ass raped for life, rather than put to death.

But i am just curious about the costs of both.

[Butchers Bill]

Damn.  I said I wasn't going to argue with you fools.  I am teh Suck.

You beat me to it.   

[Butchers Bill]

Has there been any research into what the cost difference is between keeping an animal like that locked up for life vs. the death penalty?

My ultimate feelings are that I'd rather see scumbags like Scott Peterson in a jail cell being ass raped for life, rather than put to death.

But i am just curious about the costs of both.

Its a lot more expensive to execute than to jail for life.  A lot of that cost is the endless appeals process and other legal "hoops" the state has to go through to make it happen.  Tookie was on death row for 24 years and had at least a dozen appeals.

[Rome]

The State has no right to execute one of its citizens ... if he didn't deserve the needle for these crimes, he most likely did for others.

I believe this is known as a contradiction.

I was speaking hypothetically, hench.  Personally, I don't believe that the death penalty acts as a deterrent to crime, violent or otherwise.  However, hypothetically speaking, if someone DID deserve to die, then a guy like Williams would certainly be a prime candidate for it.

[PhillyGirl]

If that is indeed the case, I'd rather not see the death penalty.

Regardless of the appeals and years Tookie went through, it was still an easy out. Much too easy for someone who killed 4 people.

[4and26]

Has there been any research into what the cost difference is between keeping an animal like that locked up for life vs. the death penalty?

My ultimate feelings are that I'd rather see scumbags like Scott Peterson in a jail cell being ass raped for life, rather than put to death.

But i am just curious about the costs of both.

You can base this on the cost of housing a prisoner but this article (http://www.amnesty.ca/deathpenalty/canada.php) shows that in Canada the murder rate declined after the death penalty was abolished:

Contrary to predictions by death penalty supporters, the homicide rate in Canada did not increase after abolition in 1976. In fact, the Canadian murder rate declined slightly the following year (from 2.8 per 100,000 to 2.7). Over the next 20 years the homicide rate fluctuated (between 2.2 and 2.8 per 100,000), but the general trend was clearly downwards. It reached a 30-year low in 1995 (1.98) -- the fourth consecutive year-to-year decrease and a full one-third lower than in the year before abolition. In 1998, the homicide rate dipped below 1.9 per 100,000, the lowest rate since the 1960s.

[henchmanUK]

The State has no right to execute one of its citizens ... if he didn't deserve the needle for these crimes, he most likely did for others.

I believe this is known as a contradiction.

I was speaking hypothetically, hench.  Personally, I don't believe that the death penalty acts as a deterrent to crime, violent or otherwise.  However, hypothetically speaking, if someone DID deserve to die, then a guy like Williams would certainly be a prime candidate for it.

Fair does.

[ice grillin you]

the bottom line is other than revenge there is no real reason to have the death penalty...and if the death penalty proponents would just admit that theyd be better off

[henchmanUK]

No. I'd want his freedom robbed and for him to toil for the rest of his life. His death wouldn't bring my wife, daughter or sister back.

Well, you answered it much better than he did!   

If it were me, the guy would be lucky to get the death penalty because he would not like what I had in store for him.

If he showed some remorse while behind bars that would give me some comfort, not much comfort mind, too.