Flyers Season thread

[PhillyGirl]

The NHL should start over with 20-24 teams.  That would rawk.

Hockey was never better than it was back then. When the Flyers went to the Finals in the mid-late 80s, there was just enough competition to keep it exciting.

Taking the teams out of places like Winnepeg and Quebec...hockey havens...and getting teams like Carolina, Florida, Atlanta, Tampa, Dallas, Phoenix, Anaheim, Columbus and San Jose....it just killed the sport.

[BigEd76]

The NHL should start over with 20-24 teams.  That would rawk.

Bring back the Whalers! 

[Wingspan]

The NHL should start over with 20-24 teams.  That would rawk.

Hockey was never better than it was back then. When the Flyers went to the Finals in the mid-late 80s, there was just enough competition to keep it exciting.

Taking the teams out of places like Winnepeg and Quebec...hockey havens...and getting teams like Carolina, Florida, Tampa, Dallas, Phoenix, Anaheim, Columbus and San Jose....it just killed the sport.

over the past 10 years, havent about half, if not more, of those teams win a cup? or at least make it to the cup finals that i am sure of.

[PhillyGirl]

The NHL should start over with 20-24 teams.  That would rawk.

Hockey was never better than it was back then. When the Flyers went to the Finals in the mid-late 80s, there was just enough competition to keep it exciting.

Taking the teams out of places like Winnepeg and Quebec...hockey havens...and getting teams like Carolina, Florida, Tampa, Dallas, Phoenix, Anaheim, Columbus and San Jose....it just killed the sport.

over the past 10 years, havent about half, if not more, of those teams win a cup? or at least make it to the cup finals that i am sure of.

What is your point? Those arenas had thousands of tickets available on gameday for the Finals games. No one gives a shtein about those teams. They don't bring in fans, they dont' bring any excitement. The Devils have won how many Cups and they still can't sell out a friggin playoff/Finals game.

[MDS]

That's why Bettman is a fool. He put hockey in places that don't embrace or even care about hockey. It would be like NASCAR putting a track on Broad and Olney. Sure they'd get a few thousand area fans and some hicks traveling in their pick up trucks, but it would still be a financial failure. Hockey isnt basketball, baseball or football. It's a niche sport. I still don't think the NHL and its players understand this.

[Wingspan]

The NHL should start over with 20-24 teams.  That would rawk.

Hockey was never better than it was back then. When the Flyers went to the Finals in the mid-late 80s, there was just enough competition to keep it exciting.

Taking the teams out of places like Winnepeg and Quebec...hockey havens...and getting teams like Carolina, Florida, Tampa, Dallas, Phoenix, Anaheim, Columbus and San Jose....it just killed the sport.

over the past 10 years, havent about half, if not more, of those teams win a cup? or at least make it to the cup finals that i am sure of.

What is your point? Those arenas had thousands of tickets available on gameday for the Finals games. No one gives a shtein about those teams. They don't bring in fans, they dont' bring any excitement. The Devils have won how many Cups and they still can't sell out a friggin playoff/Finals game.

MDS made my point for me (thanks)

the NHL tried to put itself as a big time sport. of all the major sports hockey is by far the worst in translating to television.

the NHL players wanted to be paid like the NBA and the NFL, and the owners caved. but the NHL never had the fan base to carry that kind of pay roll.

i love the sport of hockey. and i have actually enjoyed the occasional europe game on espn2 more than i thought i would. the NHL will not work the way it tried to work in the past. but however much i like the sport, or you...the rest of the country does not feel the same way. nor will they ever.

the NHL has been around for decades, and they still don't have a fan base, i don't see that changing.

the entire NHL is getting exactly what they deserve here. while the remaining fans are screwed out of it. it's player /management battles like this that should show the rest of the fans that they are ONLY in it for the money, nothing more nothing less...they don't give a shtein about the game, or it's history, and they don't give a shtein about the fan. it's been like that for years now.

the NHL is best just to accept what it is, a small market sport, it will never take press or fans or attention away from the NBA, MLB, or the NFL. as soon as they accept what they are, they can make an attempt to become successful again.

funny, more people are talking about hockey now then they would have been if they had actually played. but it's for the wrong reason.

[rjs246]

The NHL DOES have a fan base, let's not kid ourselves, but the fan base ISN'T in Florida, Texas or Phoenix and that's the point. Sure the players and owners love being there, but the league was stupid to get away from its roots and its true fans? Will their fan base ever be as large as MLB's or even the NBA's? Probably not, but the league made a MASSIVE mistake in moving its teams away from established markets and into the sun belt. Hockey was a novelty in the south that has long since worn off, thanks in large part to the disgusting emergence of NASCAR to distract all of the hicks.

Anyway, its' stupid to claim that hockey has no fan base, but it was stupider for the NHL to think that it could dictate where the fans would be.

[Wingspan]

The NHL DOES have a fan base, let's not kid ourselves, but the fan base ISN'T in Florida, Texas or Phoenix and that's the point. Sure the players and owners love being there, but the league was stupid to get away from its roots and its true fans? Will their fan base ever be as large as MLB's or even the NBA's? Probably not, but the league made a MASSIVE mistake in moving its teams away from established markets and into the sun belt. Hockey was a novelty in the south that has long since worn off, thanks in large part to the disgusting emergence of NASCAR to distract all of the hicks.

Anyway, its' stupid to claim that hockey has no fan base, but it was stupider for the NHL to think that it could dictate where the fans would be.

okay. well the number don't lie. but i will amend what i said to say that the NHL does not have a signifigant enough fan base to sustation the deliusions of the players or the greed of the owners.

hockey is a great sport ruined by the NHL

[Geowhizzer]

The NHL DOES have a fan base, let's not kid ourselves, but the fan base ISN'T in Florida, Texas or Phoenix and that's the point. Sure the players and owners love being there, but the league was stupid to get away from its roots and its true fans? Will their fan base ever be as large as MLB's or even the NBA's? Probably not, but the league made a MASSIVE mistake in moving its teams away from established markets and into the sun belt. Hockey was a novelty in the south that has long since worn off, thanks in large part to the disgusting emergence of NASCAR to distract all of the hicks.

Anyway, its' stupid to claim that hockey has no fan base, but it was stupider for the NHL to think that it could dictate where the fans would be.

I still don't get that people talk about Florida not having a fan base.  Last season, Tampa Bay placed 12th in attendance, with an average crowd of 17,820.  Florida was 17th at 15,904.  The season before Tampa was 16th, and Florida 20th.  Both seasons, the two Florida teams were ahead of Original Six cities Boston and Chicago, not to mention the New York Islanders, New Jersey Devils, Washington Capitals and Buffalo Sabres, not to mention the AHL-level Pittsburgh Penguins.

I will grant that often the crowd is not necessarily going to root for the home team, at least not in the game that I attend (I've been taking the 3-hour drive to see the Flyers play in both cities in the past several years, and there are a ton of Flyers fans), but to say that there is not a hockey crowd in Florida is ridiculous.  There's too many of us darned Yankees down here. 

Besides, I want my live Flyers fix three or four times a year... 

[Rome]

I think this thread should be locked out.

[Geowhizzer]

I think this thread should be locked out.

Shhhhh... Don't say "locked out" in here! 

[PhillyGirl]

I still don't get that people talk about Florida not having a fan base.  Last season, Tampa Bay placed 12th in attendance, with an average crowd of 17,820.  Florida was 17th at 15,904.  The season before Tampa was 16th, and Florida 20th.  Both seasons, the two Florida teams were ahead of Original Six cities Boston and Chicago, not to mention the New York Islanders, New Jersey Devils, Washington Capitals and Buffalo Sabres, not to mention the AHL-level Pittsburgh Penguins.

I will grant that often the crowd is not necessarily going to root for the home team, at least not in the game that I attend (I've been taking the 3-hour drive to see the Flyers play in both cities in the past several years, and there are a ton of Flyers fans), but to say that there is not a hockey crowd in Florida is ridiculous.  There's too many of us darned Yankees down here. 

Besides, I want my live Flyers fix three or four times a year... 

Tampa had thousands of tickets left on the DAYS OF PLAYOFF GAMES...including the Finals. Please don't try to convince me or anyone else that they have FANS down there. IF hockey left there for good, sure they'd be a few fans that missed it, but not to the same level as "hockey" cities.

And those cities had higher attendance due to the HIGH number of northeast transplants down there. It was the same in LA. They sold out how? Well, whenever I was there for Flyers games, there were 75% Philly fans.

[Geowhizzer]

I still don't get that people talk about Florida not having a fan base.  Last season, Tampa Bay placed 12th in attendance, with an average crowd of 17,820.  Florida was 17th at 15,904.  The season before Tampa was 16th, and Florida 20th.  Both seasons, the two Florida teams were ahead of Original Six cities Boston and Chicago, not to mention the New York Islanders, New Jersey Devils, Washington Capitals and Buffalo Sabres, not to mention the AHL-level Pittsburgh Penguins.

I will grant that often the crowd is not necessarily going to root for the home team, at least not in the game that I attend (I've been taking the 3-hour drive to see the Flyers play in both cities in the past several years, and there are a ton of Flyers fans), but to say that there is not a hockey crowd in Florida is ridiculous.  There's too many of us darned Yankees down here. 

Besides, I want my live Flyers fix three or four times a year... 

Tampa had thousands of tickets left on the DAYS OF PLAYOFF GAMES...including the Finals. Please don't try to convince me or anyone else that they have FANS down there. IF hockey left there for good, sure they'd be a few fans that missed it, but not to the same level as "hockey" cities.

And those cities had higher attendance due to the HIGH number of northeast transplants down there. It was the same in LA. They sold out how? Well, whenever I was there for Flyers games, there were 75% Philly fans.

Apparently Boston and Chicago wouldn't miss it too much, as they can't be bothered to show up to the games.  Heck, Chicago didn't even sell 65% of their tickets last season.  Boston had a slightly higher percentage of seats sold than Florida (85.8% to 82.6%), but much less than Tampa 90.2%).

Also, I said that the games that I went to (when the home teams were playing the Flyers) that the crowd was heavily (though not a majority) rooting for the Flyers.  We were louder, too. 

The worst four in attendance (#27-30) were Chicago, Nashville, Carolina and Pittsburgh.  Knowing that the NHL would never dream of eliminating an Original Six city, those other three would probably be the place to start the talks of contraction.  Then possibly target the redundant teams in the NYC metropolitan area (Islanders- 26 and New Jersey- 24).

To me, the data shows a different story than the "Please don't try to convince me or anyone else that they have FANS down there."  Again, the tradition for the home teams may not be there yet (remember, there was a failed NHL team in Philly prior to the Flyers), but the two teams down here are doing as well, and even better, than the traditional "hockey towns" of Boston and Chicago.

[PhillyGirl]

geo, you're missing the point. The fans have lost interest. Fans of the Original Six, fans in Philly, fans in all hockey cities.

No one CARES when the Florida Panthers or the Atlanta Thrashers come to town and they sure as hell aren't going to spend 300 bucks to bring a family of 4 to a game to watch it.

20-24 teams...divisional games mean more, conference games mean more. The excitement comes back and the fans want to come back. The draft means more, the talent doesn't get diluted, the games become more exciting. The clutching and grabbing isn't a necessity anymore because there is actual pure TALENT on teams instead of being the 29th pick in an already weak draft and getting nothing.

[Geowhizzer]

geo, you're missing the point. The fans have lost interest. Fans of the Original Six, fans in Philly, fans in all hockey cities.

No one CARES when the Florida Panthers or the Atlanta Thrashers come to town and they sure as hell aren't going to spend 300 bucks to bring a family of 4 to a game to watch it.

20-24 teams...divisional games mean more, conference games mean more. The excitement comes back and the fans want to come back. The draft means more, the talent doesn't get diluted, the games become more exciting. The clutching and grabbing isn't a necessity anymore because there is actual pure TALENT on teams instead of being the 29th pick in an already weak draft and getting nothing.

I don't disagree that fewer teams would make the rivalries mean more, or even each individual game.  I just believe that it wouldn't be in the best interest of the sport to abandon Florida, which while geographically in the south, culturally it is more aligned with the Northeast and Midwest.  I firmly believe that there are teams, maybe even more established teams, that would be better contraction candidates than either Florida team.

Now Carolina (as much as I love it when they train in Ft. Myers)- that is a classic contraction case.  They should have never left Hartford.

And I can't speak for the Philly fans towards the Lightning, but I know that the Lightning see the Flyers as a big rival.  I took a lot of crap when the Bulbs beat the Flyers in the playoffs last season.