Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[rjs246]

First, history says that the Democrats will lose seats no matter how the President is doing.
Second, the Stimulus is likely to 'work' no matter how effective its provisions actually are. There is a certain amount of natural correction (due to the drastic failures we've seen) that will happen and there are in fact jobs that are being created by the bill. Which could easily lead to greater Dem gains.

In other words, it's ridiculous to start making predictions 4 weeks into Obama's presidency.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Second, the Stimulus is likely to 'work' no matter how effective its provisions actually are. There is a certain amount of natural correction (due to the drastic failures we've seen) that will happen and there are in fact jobs that are being created by the bill. Which could easily lead to greater Dem gains.

Exactly.  But all of you "centrist" guys that aren't wildly upset about spending all this money that doesn't exist are the real bafflers.

[Diomedes]

And the other option is?

Enough already.

[rjs246]

Second, the Stimulus is likely to 'work' no matter how effective its provisions actually are. There is a certain amount of natural correction (due to the drastic failures we've seen) that will happen and there are in fact jobs that are being created by the bill. Which could easily lead to greater Dem gains.

Exactly.  But all of you "centrist" guys that aren't wildly upset about spending all this money that doesn't exist are the real bafflers.

Look I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only other option is to do nothing. Since that isn't realistic, you have to understand that money is going to be spent one way or the other. Dems and Reps can argue over how its spent but the only other option is to do nothing because raising taxes to balance the budget is not an option.

Bill Clinton raised taxes to balance the budget amid a strong economy. It worked, but people still raised holy hell about it. Balancing the budget by raising taxes while the economy is shtein and people are losing their jobs will never fly. So what is the alternative to a government stimulus?

After it gets turned around you can argue about what caused the turnaround and then everyone can discuss the best way to balance the budget, but in the mean time I don't think that inaction is a solution.

[Rome]

Exactly.  But all of you "centrist" guys that aren't wildly upset about spending all this money that doesn't exist are the real bafflers.

What's the alternative?  The economy is in free fall and the only way to get it going again is to inject activity into it.

I despise wasteful spending, but Jesus Christ, man... there's nothing else they can do at this point.

[rjs246]

By the way, I am still not supportive of the various bailout plans. If you can't turn a profit with your company, the government shouldn't be asked to step in and save your ass. You should be allowed to fail. But I am very much in support of a government driven stimulus.

[shorebird]

I think it's too much government spending in the bill, and not enough put towards the infastructure.

"I think everyone in this chamber on both sides of the aisle understands we need to act," said House Minority Leader John Boehner, an Ohio Republican. "But a bill that's supposed to be about jobs, jobs, jobs has turned into a bill that's all about spending, spending and spending."

link

This bill won't create the jobs that it's being said it will, imo.

The stimulus plan provides a half-trillion dollars for jobless benefits, renewable energy projects, highway construction, food stamps, broadband, Pell college tuition grants, high-speed rail projects and scores of other programs. It raises the nation's debt limit to about $12 trillion.

[rjs246]

So renewable energy projects and highway construction won't create jobs? That doesn't even make any sense. You've been saying that you don't believe it will create jobs but you have yet to coherently explain why.

[shorebird]

So renewable energy projects and highway construction won't create jobs?

Those might, more than likely it will provide work for people who already have jobs. What I'm saying is that money for things like Food Stamps, Broadband, and Tuition Grants, and the billions that will be put towards government programs won't create jobs. Imo, any economic stimulus plan shouldn't have any money at all put towards the government. Thats what our tax money is for.

Some people see only what they want to see and read only what they want to read, and for those reasons can't have anything explained to them. But maybe you can explain to me what jobs this bill will create.

[shorebird]

I know the final details haven't come out yet, and the damn thing is 1,000 pages long, but I'll be interested to see it.

[rjs246]

What I'm saying is that money for things like Food Stamps, Broadband, and Tuition Grants, and the billions that will be put towards government programs won't create jobs.

Increasing broadband availability and coverage requires infrastructure work as well. Both sides agreed that increases in unemployment benefits would be immediately stimulative.

You can argue that education spending isn't stimulative, but you can also argue that the long-term economic health of our country is helped exponentially by making higher education more easily available to people.

Look, no one knows whether everything in the bill will work. I would love to have changed some details here and there and I would love even more for everyone to to be whopping and hollering in support of the ideas in the bill. But that isn't the way it is, and to make blanket statements like 'I don't think this will will create jobs' is just ridiculous. The damn thing hasn't even been signed yet.

[rjs246]

Here's how I look at it in a nutshell:

The last eight years were spent spending money hand over fist in ways that few people agree with in hindsight. Simultaneously, there were three industry bubbles building. A popular end to support of the government's line of spending coincided with the bursting of all of those bubbles (and the subsequent worldwide economic shteinstorm).

Without the bursting of those bubbles, Obama (or anyone else) could step into the presidency and go through the budget and cut cut cut, reform reform reform until our budget was balanced and everyone jerked themselves off over how great america was again. But he can't just slash and burn now because those bubbles did burst and jobs are needed. Confidence is needed. Direction is needed. This bill provides those things in varying doses. It isn't perfect and I would rather see him in there reforming entitlements and cutting wasteful government projects, but priorities dictate that he act as he has.

[mpmcgraw]

Plus inflation is slowing down.  We might as well take advantage of it and spend the money we dont have now rather than later.

[shorebird]

to make blanket statements like 'I don't think this will will create jobs' is just ridiculous.

How is that a blanket statement? It's how I genuinely see it. A stimulus bill that has billions upon billions put towards government programs. That kind of spending isn't needed and that money could go towards creating jobs in the infastructure. I'm not saying that something doesn't have to be done, it does. But not just because of that. It's like saying let's do something even if it's wrong. Just do it because, the other option is??

Imo, it could use some trimming or more extensive restructuring, but whatever, the proof will be in the pudding. Either way, with the money being spent our grandchildrens children will be paying for it long after we are gone.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

So, a massive government expansion/spending package is the only way to stave off a worsening of the economic "crisis?"

Sure.  It was damn near bottom already.  So, like rjs said, now it will appear that this worked... and we will have programs on top of programs that our children won't be able to pay for.  Great.