Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[rjs246]

If the Democrats are smart, which they clearly are not, they will significantly change Obama's tax plan and then pass it without making a big deal about the changes they've made. They have a chance right now to be the saviors of this country (psychologically and politically speaking, of course). All they have to do is approach these situations in a moderate fashion (for example, NOT passing a tax bill that gives refunds to people who don't pay taxes) and they will be revered as the party that righted this country's ship. I don't believe for a second that they will have the self control or self awareness to accomplish that, but this is a golden opportunity for them to cement their standing in power for a long time.

[fansince61]

If the Democrats are smart, which they clearly are not, they will significantly change Obama's tax plan and then pass it without making a big deal about the changes they've made. They have a chance right now to be the saviors of this country (psychologically and politically speaking, of course). All they have to do is approach these situations in a moderate fashion (for example, NOT passing a tax bill that gives refunds to people who don't pay taxes) and they will be revered as the party that righted this country's ship. I don't believe for a second that they will have the self control or self awareness to accomplish that, but this is a golden opportunity for them to cement their standing in power for a long time.

I agree

[ice grillin you]

if we are goin to redistribute wealth id rather it go to the have nots in society than do what this administration just did by handing over $700 billion to private companies...including buying $250 billion worth of banks...or by making war and caking off the industrial military complex

sometimes you need to do this a bit to keep societies stable....when there is too big of a gap between the haves and have nots...or there is little perceived chance for a have not to become wealthy....then the have nots will TAKE it back through democratic means (welfare...high taxes on rich...etc.) or through violent revolution...this year its thru democratic means and electing obama

[Seabiscuit36]

IGY just Caked me off

[rjs246]

I think IGY makes some good points about revolution and required change but I don't think that handing out tax money to people who don't pay taxes in the first place is the way to do it. Take that money and re-invest it in improving the educational systems. Invest it in job creation. Invest it in police support and education (like requiring police officers, the armed government employees who are supposed to protect our rights and serve the people, to have something higher than a high school education). Invest it in neighborhoods, roads, schools and housing improvements where it is most needed. Invest it in adult learning programs and daycare services for working parents.

In other words, infrastructure.

Just handing money to people accomplishes nothing.

[Phanatic]

Obama pointed out exactly all of these tax points in the last debate. This is nothing new and has been a key feature in his tax plan.

[fansince61]

Just handing money to people accomplishes nothing.

It buys votes

[rjs246]

Obama pointed out exactly all of these tax points in the last debate. This is nothing new and has been a key feature in his tax plan.

That's fine. But it's easy for people to seize on things like tax refunds for people who don't pay federal taxes and call Obama a socialist. Remove that part of the tax bill and put that money towards something useful and everyone is happy.

[Phanatic]

Though in the answering of that question he did state that he will eliminate capital gains tax for all small businesses to encourage growth which was new to me.


Interesting reversal of theories at play here. Folks that think of trickle down ecomonics label trickle up as wealth distribution but that is a misnomer really isn't it? In our consumer based society isn't it reasonable to think that putting more money into the pockets of consumers helps the economy which in turn helps corporations which in turn trickles back down. Plus his tax hikes for those making $250k and up aren't unreasonable are they. Don't they just bring taxable income precentages in line with the rest of us? Why should I pay a higher percentage of taxes just raising my family and killing brain cells? Or am I paying a higher percentage?

[ATV]

As long as you all understand the ramifications of far-reaching wealth re-distribution and think that is going to bring our country prosperity, great.  Good luck with that.

FF ~may~ have taken a college course in economics, so he feels comfortable enough to pretend he's some sort of expert on the economy by repeating Right Wing scare words like "far-reaching weath re-distrubution". As if that crap will work this time.

[rjs246]

Though in the answering of that question he did state that he will eliminate capital gains tax for all small businesses to encourage growth which was new to me.


Interesting reversal of theories at play here. Folks that think of trickle down ecomonics label trickle up as wealth distribution but that is a misnomer really isn't it? In our consumer based society isn't it reasonable to think that putting more money into the pockets of consumers helps the economy which in turn helps corporations which in turn trickles back down. Plus his tax hikes for those making $250k and up aren't unreasonable are they. Don't they just bring taxable income precentages in line with the rest of us? Why should I pay a higher percentage of taxes just raising my family and killing brain cells? Or am I paying a higher percentage?

What you're describing is the Republican viewpoint. They believe that cash in hand is better than cash being spent by the government to on various projects.

It's a defensible argument in a country where the infrastructure is strong, but becomes less so when education, transportation, housing and services are faltering. Either way there is a middle ground that makes the most sense.

[Phanatic]

Found a break down for 2008. For Head of Household.

0 - 11,450 a year paid 10% in federal taxes
11450 - 43650 a year paid 15% in federal taxes
43,650 - 112,650 a year paid 25% in federal taxes
112, 650 - 182,400 a year paid 28% in federal taxes
182,400 - 357,700 a year paid 33% in federal taxes
357,700 and up a year paid 35% in federal taxes.

So it has not been even. That means each bracket here above 250k gets a higher percentage. Not sure how I feel about it but I don't care too much as it won't effect me in any way except that I'll have more money to spend. I suspect most Americans don't make over 250k a year either.

[fansince61]

What you're describing is the Republican viewpoint. They believe that cash in hand is better than cash being spent by the government to on various projects.

As a recovering republican I can answer this question.  If you send a $1.00 to Washington you are lucky if $.10 actually makes it to where it was supposed to go.  The hogs & their bros. eat the other $.90

[rjs246]

What you're describing is the Republican viewpoint. They believe that cash in hand is better than cash being spent by the government to on various projects.

As a recovering republican I can answer this question.  If you send a $1.00 to Washington you are lucky if $.10 actually makes it to where it was supposed to go.  The hogs & their bros. eat the other $.90

This is a very standard response, and not completely without merit, but that is part of the government's responsibility. To provide for and maintain the infrastructure of this country. Do you fill the potholes on your street or deliver your own mail or design your neighborhood's sewage system or, god forbid, teach your own children every school subject they need to learn? Allof that requires money. The government will squander some of it and they need to do a better job of being efficient, but to just write it off as a lost cause is ludicrous.

[Father Demon]

When the farg did you start trying to make sense?

Knock it the hell off.  You're scaring the children.