Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[ATV]

[ice grillin you]

I'm not a military strategist, but it seems to me that unilateral cross border attacks would cost way too many lives, and the better strategy would be to go in full force with a whole battalion. But I really don't know and I don't think Obama does either.

i was pointing that apparently he doesnt care about being friends with everyone

[shorebird]

Then why would he be willing to sit down with just about anyone unconditionally? That might not mean that he wants to be friends, but it doesn't look very good towards that end.

[ice grillin you]

why wouldnt you sit down with anyone unconditionally...just because you sit doesnt mean you have to acquiesce to them...in fact nothing says you cant reach across the table and choke them out...but to just up and say you will not meet with people is ignorant imo and i see no negatives in sitting down with anyone

[rjs246]

Reagan sat down with Gorbachev several times. I don't see any problem at all with agreeing to speak to your 'enemies'. Diplomacy is always a preferable first step. This notion that meeting without pre-condition being a bad thing confuses me.

[ice grillin you]

all it is is a republican talking point to try and portray dems as bleeding heart pussified hippies

[Father Demon]

That's not right, IGY.

The idea is that by the President of the US sitting down with an enemy, it legitimizes their complaints, actions, and status.  Then they can go back to their people and claim some sort of victory because the US knows how important they are and how strong they are.  By sitting down without preconditions, you make their cause or their actions stronger to the people that support it.

[SD_Eagle5]

The nut job can put it on his/her car, and the other nut jobs can put Palin is a C##t on their t-shirt. There are a couple of issues I cannot get over with Obama to vote for him, healthcare and his record of voting.

I don't have a problem with Obama's health care plan as long as it's subsidised and affordable. What scares me about him, and it's the only thing really, is his foreign policy. He acts like he wants to be friends with everyone, and thats just not possible.

Isn't diplomacy a better first step then an ultimatium which is what Republicans do?

As far as Health Care goes the United States is the only industrialized country in the world that does not guarantee Health Care for it's citizen. Ri-farging-diculous that my girlfriend and I have to pay almost $500 a month for herself and my daughter and that my only coverage is through the VA since I can't work full time being a college student. The system isn't broke it's completely farged up. And yes I believe health care is a right not a priveledge.

[ice grillin you]

That's not right, IGY.

The idea is that by the President of the US sitting down with an enemy, it legitimizes their complaints, actions, and status.  Then they can go back to their people and claim some sort of victory because the US knows how important they are and how strong they are.  By sitting down without preconditions, you make their cause or their actions stronger to the people that support it.

dont believe the hype...its all propaganda to try and make you scared of dying in a terrorist attack if a dem becomes president

if anything you directly confront thier cause and shoot it down if thats what it means

keep your friends close and your enemies closer

[shorebird]

That's not right, IGY.

The idea is that by the President of the US sitting down with an enemy, it legitimizes their complaints, actions, and status.  Then they can go back to their people and claim some sort of victory because the US knows how important they are and how strong they are.  By sitting down without preconditions, you make their cause or their actions stronger to the people that support it.

Exactly.^^^

No one is saying don't have talks, but to sit down without pre-conditions is a sign of weakness to the rest of the world.

[rjs246]

It's two ways of looking at things. Demon has a point, and if you feel that way, fine. But I believe that Reagan did a lot to stave off full on nuclear war by being civil with the Soviets and I think that more diplomacy and less unilateral invasion and chest pounding would serve us well in the Middle East.

And shore, getting your knickers in a twist about the phrase 'without preconditions' is ridiculous. It's splitting hairs. The POTUS is not going to sit down with ANYONE without some conditions. Clinging to that phrase is a desperate attempt to scare people. Nothing more or less.

[Phanatic]

From the supposedly useless debate I liked Obama's health plan better then McCain's actually.

Obama will not change company provided health care and offer tax credits and things like that to businesses large and small so they can provide affordable health care to their workers. There is already an infrastructire there so it stays the same for the most part. For people who can not afford health care or who do not get company health care he wants to start a health care plan where the US government pools people together to create a health care plan simular to what your company provides. One reason companies can provide healthcare is because they have a large pool of people paying smaller amounts into a larger pool. The insurance companies can make money and so it goes. It's not exactly socialized medicine. He does want to mandate that all kids should have health care and thinks that it is as important as the mandate that all kids go to school.

McCain wants to give everyone a $2500 - $5000 tax credit and let the insurance companies compete for that money. I don't know if your required to spend your tax credit on health care or if there's an idiot clause mandating it. This would effectivly eliminate healthcare through your job and every person would have to manage this themselves. The idea is that the free market would compete for this money and become more consumer freindly to compete for your $$. Not a bad thought on the whole either.

That's how I see the two plans and I think Obama's is actually more conservative then McCain's in this case. Conservative in the literal sense.

[Father Demon]

It's two ways of looking at things. Demon has a point, and if you feel that way, fine.

FTR, I didn't offer my opinion on the issue.  I was trying to answer a question based on the Republican policy.

[Phanatic]

Again to the debate I liked Obama's response to the question of direct talks. He said he could sit down and have direct talks with Iran's leader and let them know that we will not tolerate nuclear weapons and whatever else directly. Setting conditions on a meeting means that you are avoiding the meeting. If you don't want to meet with a world leader don't meet with them. Don't hide behind preconditions knowing full well they'll never meet them and use the preconditions to strengthen their position at home anyway.

[ice grillin you]

Again to the debate I liked Obama's response to the question of direct talks. He said he could sit down and have direct talks with Iran's leader and let them know that we will not tolerate nuclear weapons and whatever else directly. Setting conditions on a meeting means that you are avoiding the meeting. If you don't want to meet with a world leader don't meet with them. Don't hide behind preconditions knowing full well they'll never meet them and use the preconditions to strengthen their position at home anyway.

bingo