Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[mussa]

i think the real problem isn't what she was saying it the millions of americans who agree with her. this has been an on going thing with bush, she is just one of the sheep on this disturbing ride. i am sick of the republicans they have their time to rape and get fat off at our expense. this shtein needs to end.

[SD_Eagle5]

Anyone catch her support of Cheney's redefining the role of the VP? I thought that would get a lot more play then it did in post debate stuff. It also will help them hang Bush-Cheney around McCain's neck.

Historically speaking on the VP's role Cheney's mad.

She did her best to not give anything of substance in that question. I also like how she kept trying to deflect the last 8 years regime by saying Biden keeps living in the past.

As far as her saying she was 'joking' about not knowing what the VP did
here's the clip (2:50). You can come to your own conclusion but to me it's fairly obvious she has no clue.

[SD_Eagle5]

From Factcheck.org:

PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama: "94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction."

THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.

___

BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."

THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the crisis today from being worse.

___

PALIN: Criticized Obama's "plan to mandate health care coverage and have universal government run program" for health care, and added: "I don't think it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the Feds."

THE FACTS: Wrong on several counts. Obama's plan does not provide for universal coverage, only mandates insurance for children and doesn't turn the system over to the government. Most people would still get private insurance through their work. Obama proposes that the government subsidize the cost of health coverage for millions who have trouble affording it and he'd set up an exchange to negotiate prices and benefits with private insurers — with one option being a government-run plan.

___

BIDEN: Warned that Republican presidential candidate John McCain's $5,000 tax credit to help families buy health coverage "will go straight to the insurance company."

THE FACTS: Of course it would, because it's meant to pay for insurance. That's like saying money for a car loan will go straight to the car dealer.

___

PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."

THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control. BIDEN: Said McCain supports tax breaks for oil companies, and "wants to give them another $4 billion tax cut."

THE FACTS: Biden is repeating a favorite saw of the Obama campaign, and it's misleading. McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn't single out any one industry for that benefit.

___

PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007.

THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began.

___

BIDEN: "As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry — deregulate it and let the free market move — like he did for the banking industry."

THE FACTS: Biden and Obama have been perpetuating this distortion of what McCain wrote in an article for the American Academy of Actuaries. McCain, laying out his health plan, only referred to deregulation when saying people should be allowed to buy health insurance across state lines. In that context, he wrote: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."

___

PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."

THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."

___

PALIN: "Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year."

BIDEN: "The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way."

THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed that President Bush's tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others. In the March 14 budget resolution supported by Obama and Biden, McCain actually did not vote.

___

PALIN: Said a McCain-Palin administration "will support Israel," including "building our embassy ... in Jerusalem."

THE FACTS: Moving the U.S. Embassy from its present location in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is a perennial promise of presidential candidates courting the Jewish-American vote. In fact, moving the embassy is actually required by U.S. law. But successive administrations of both parties, including George W. Bush's, have made the same pledge only to find that the realities of Middle East peacemaking have forced them to invoke a waiver to delay it. Jerusalem is claimed as a capital by both Israel and the Palestinians and Israel's occupation of east Jerusalem is not internationally recognized. The city's status is one of the key issues of disagreement in peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

[SD_Eagle5]

lol

[NGM]

Ha.  That got a good chuckle out of me. 

[ATV]

Nice.

[hunt]

but the guys on fox news said palin won. 

[Father Demon]

My take.

I thought considering the expectations, Palin did much better than anyone thought she would, as far as style and performance.  She hit the Republican lines as she was supposed to, she used her "one of us" personality which is absolutely a plus for the McCain camp, and she didn't have a major gaffe.  Her biggest mistake was probably not understanding the question about Cheney and the VP powers, and decided in a second's time that she better agree with the current administration.  She farged that up - no one wants to see the VP have more power that they are supposed to, especially after Cheney.  I really don't think Palin wants to continue that, and it was a case of her being in over her head.  Her shining moment was attacking Biden on his previous comments about Obama and his previous voting that has changed since being added to the ticket.  If she could have rode that, she may have actually caused Biden to go back to the old Joe we know, and have a minor (or major) flare-up.  Opportunity missed.  She also did a fantastic job at creating a new T-Shirt slogan with "Say it ain't so, Joe."  The line worked well with her and her personality, even if it was use to produce some slight-of-hand.  That said, I really wish she could have been more specific to some of the questions.  I have used that "I don't know the answer to that question, but I'll tell you what I do know" philosophy through college and even sometimes in my job, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.  It worked for her in that she didn't stutter, or answer like she did with Couric.  It didn't, because the press and blogs are pulling her apart today for avoiding the questions.   Given the expectations for her last night, I think she pulls out a passing grade no question.  Given the expectations of what a VP should look like, she's simply not ready.  Sarah, I love you darlin', but you're in over your head.

On Biden, I thought he did very well at maintaining his sarcasm and temper, and not appearing at all to condescend to Palin.  I think he failed at pushing Obama, where Palin passed at pushing McCain.  It almost seemed as though Joe forgot that people vote for the Pres, not the VP.  However, that was a minor issue, and I think he gained a lot of respect for his opinions and experience.  It certainly helped that 70% of the debate was on foreign policy and the war, which he is a hundred times more qualified to discuss than Palin.

Which brings me to my third point.  Ifel was for the most part not too bad, with a couple of exceptions.  1) Since she wrote and owned all the questions herself, I thought the questions were very slanted towards presenting the Democratic ticket in a better light given the participants.  With so many foreign policy and war questions, it was easy for Joe to shine.  I don't know if the topics were discussed with the camps prior and both sides agreed to a heavy foreign topic, but if they were they were.  If they weren't, I think there could have easily been topics on immigration, education (Biden even asked for that, but it never came) and other social issues that may have been more of an even ground.  2) Gwen cut off Palin mid sentence once, which I thought was un called for, especially considering that later in the debate when Biden was past his 90 seconds, Gwen offered a muffled cough and a very quiet "OK", leaving him time to finish his thought.  That was a total slant in my opinion.  3) The question about "one heartbeat away" was decidedly pro-Democrat, given the fear that Palin could be President.  In my opinion, had McCain picked a more seasoned VP that question would not be asked.  It was Gwen's intention (in my opinion, again) to add a little fear to the voting public that Palin could very well be the President.  We all know it, but it was a little in your face.  4) There was one other question that I thought was very pro-Obama, but it escapes me now.  If anyone else can remember it, please help an old man with his memory.

All that said, I find my self in a quandary.  I am much more in favor of McCain's policies over Obama's, but as much as I love that VPILF, she is not White House ready.  I don't want to change my vote because of her, but where I used to be 100% McCain voter, that percentage may have decreased to 75%.  McCain and his staff of smart guys better do more to get Palin ready and show it off, or they will lose votes.  If they moved a guy like me off the right wall, people that were near or at the center have probably decided to go Obama.  If they don't fix that, and fast, this thing is over.  Well, it probably already is, but the need to do more.

[rjs246]

My only comment on that, Demon, is that the one-heartbeat-away question basically had to be asked. Many of the other questions were 'hot topic' questions and to not ask that one would have been a glaring omission.

[Father Demon]

I understand what you're saying, but it seemed to me decidedly Democratic.  Perhaps it's because "my" party is on the short end of that question, but I still think that if there were a more seasoned VP candidate in the McCain camp it wouldn't have been asked.

So, in short, I think I agree with what you're saying.  But I didn't like it.

[rjs246]

Of course it wouldn't have been asked because it wouldn't have been an issue on the public's mind. Either way, I understand why a righty wouldn't like it, but that doesn't make it an unfair question.

[Seabiscuit36]

Palin talked to her base, the problem is she needed to address people outside the folksy base, and get those who were leaning but undecided.  Last night, NBC had a room full of people from around the country, only 3 though Palin won, and all three talked like they were retards who voted for the pretty girl for class president. 

Sure Palin didn't screw up, but she didnt win those who weren't sold already.  And the Folksy stuff is ok when you're a Governor, but as VP of the US you need to talk like a statesman.  And the agreeing with Cheney needing more power being a good thing, "Say it aint so, HO"

[Phanatic]

Funny but normally foreign policy questions benefit the right more then the left. This whole thing is backwards.

Being a just right of center guy Demon is right. I am currently in the Obama, Biden camp and I really liked Biden in the primaries. I thought he did well last night. He never went after Palin directly and mainly attacked Bush-Cheney-McCain. I think he didn't want to come across as a mean old white guy. I thought her folksiness seemed a little contrived and over the top at times but the foreign journalists on the BBC were buying it.

The French jounalist said that the people of France don't care about Palin, or Biden. They're all about Obama. He will be an international super star if he gets elected. Not sure if that is good or bad but we could benefit from more international cooperation then we're used too. 

Also the middle eastern journalist said that no one knows who Biden is but they know about Palin because of the tabloid. They will all just be reading how she gave a passable performance and probably won't pay much attention to Biden. Just goes to show. Bad press is still press.

[Magical_Retard]

if Palin seemed to know the questions in advance....she did.

well sort of. basically anytime a question was asked she had a mini speech prepared to go off on. it didnt even have to really answer the question. actually most times it didnt. she just heard a keyword, say like Iraq, and went off rambling "team of mavericks....white flag....troops...freedom...ISRAEL!"

she even admitted that she wouldnt answer some of the question or not the way they would want her to. thats because her responses were all mini speeches prepared before hand. she even used word for word the same attack McCain used against Obama about voting against the troops (which both Obama and Biden showed McCain did as well) and sitting down with foreign leaders.

basically thats been the republican strategy. if you say it enough, even if its a lie, it will become the truth. ppl still believe Barack is secretly a Muslim. now they will believe he doesn't support the troops.

[Phanatic]

I thought that was pretty significant. She kept saying Obama voted against funding the troops and Biden twice said "so did McCain".