Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

Cerevant · May 15, 2008, 09:20:58 AM

Because he has taken a more liberal approach - a believer, but also believes in separation of church & state - in the past. How can you say "vote for me, I'm Christian, but that won't have any impact on my policy decisions"?

Rome · May 15, 2008, 09:25:57 AM

So if a person is a liberal politically he can't be a devout Christian?

Still not getting the "pandering" thing either.

Panderer: a person who caters to or profits from the weaknesses or vices of others.

How is he profiting from the supposed weaknesses or vices of others if he, himself, shares the same views? He's not exploiting anyone by self-identfying himself as one of them. I just think it's an incorrect use of the term on your part, C.

PoopyfaceMcGee · May 15, 2008, 10:14:35 AM

Quote from: Cerevant on May 15, 2008, 09:20:58 AM
How can you say "vote for me, I'm Christian, but that won't have any impact on my policy decisions"?

That's what most elected Democrats do, and a good share of Republicans also.

Is your argument that every elected official should be an Agnostic or an Athiest in order to properly keep their personal beliefs out of their decisions? I'm sure the multitude of disbelievers on this site would agree with you in theory, but based on the current demographics in our government, you're fighting a losing battle there.

This country has never elected a President that doesn't proclaim a belief in God through Christianity of some sort or another. Assuming McCain or Obama is the next one, that's not going to change. And frankly, Obama's more dedicated to his faith than McCain's ever been.

Phanatic · May 15, 2008, 10:28:17 AM

Quote from: FastFreddie on May 15, 2008, 10:14:35 AM
Quote from: Cerevant on May 15, 2008, 09:20:58 AM
How can you say "vote for me, I'm Christian, but that won't have any impact on my policy decisions"?

That's what most elected Democrats do, and a good share of Republicans also.

Is your argument that every elected official should be an Agnostic or an Athiest in order to properly keep their personal beliefs out of their decisions? I'm sure the multitude of disbelievers on this site would agree with you in theory, but based on the current demographics in our government, you're fighting a losing battle there.

This country has never elected a President that doesn't proclaim a belief in God through Christianity of some sort or another. Assuming McCain or Obama is the next one, that's not going to change. And frankly, Obama's more dedicated to his faith than McCain's ever been.

There's no way any of us can no the answer to that one. Come on...

Cerevant · May 15, 2008, 10:29:00 AM

There's a difference between, "I'm a Christian, but that is not relevant in politics" and "Vote for me because I'm a Christian". Which message does this flyer send:

QuoteMy Faith teaches me that I can sit in church and pray all I want, but I won't be fulfilling God's will unless I go out and do the Lord's work.

I'm sorry, I thought he was campaigning to do the people's work, not the Lord's work. He better show me that there is some overlap there...

PoopyfaceMcGee · May 15, 2008, 10:31:13 AM

So, is Obama just going to be a continuation of Bush, then? They both worship the same living God, so I'd assume their platforms and leaderships styles are similar.

MCCAIN 2008.

Rome · May 15, 2008, 10:32:50 AM

LOL

PoopyfaceMcGee · May 15, 2008, 10:42:06 AM

So, I guess we've all learned something today. Hating on God is the one thing that's more important to Cerevant than loving on BarryO.

When Rome, the super-athiest and a top supporter of the separation of church and state, is siding with Barry (and J.C.!) against Cerevant on this matter, you know someone's got a hard-on for Godlessness.

fansince61 · May 15, 2008, 11:32:08 AM

Quote from: Cerevant on May 15, 2008, 10:29:00 AM
I'm sorry, I thought he was campaigning to do the people's work, not the Lord's work. He better show me that there is some overlap there...

I'm shocked

Mr. Obama is a Democrat hence his vision of the peoples work and Gods work is the same

rjs246 · May 15, 2008, 11:53:29 AM

I have no problem with religion. I'm not a believer but I think it plays an important role in some people's lives.

I do have a big problem with mixing religion and politics, but apparently I am alone in this. I read something recently (it may have even been posted here) that said that the most distrusted group of people in the country (based on the associated poll) are atheists. The article revolved around a congressman who 'came out' as a non-believer and the amount of political baggage he now has to deal with in convincing people that he is still capable of thinking rationally. Not believing in an illogical flying spaghetti monster in the sky is apparently less rational than believing. People are idiots.

Phanatic · May 15, 2008, 12:15:03 PM

There's a general misconception that without religion you have no moral compass.

rjs246 · May 15, 2008, 12:43:28 PM

I would argue that one's moral compass shouldn't be dictated to them by a 2000 year old book but rather acquired from family and personal experience. Of course, I like to make sense more often than not which clearly is not everyone's priority.

Rome · May 15, 2008, 12:44:38 PM

First of all, I'm not an atheist. I'm an agnostic but I'm not so arrogant as to believe there isn't something in the universe greater than myself (as if that's even possible - I mean, come on). If fathergod comes down here and says to me, "dude - it's me - I'm really God and you should probably get on board as soon as possible" then I'm definitely hitching my wagon.

Second, I do believe in an afterlife, but not necessarily one with puffy clouds or lakes of fire. I think we die and then move on to another plane of existance. Whatever's inside of us that makes us aware of ourselves has to go somewhere when the body we inhabit dies. Hopefully I'll go to a place without a lot of you or taterskins fans, for that matter.

Finally, all I was suggesting with respect to Obama is that he wasn't using his faith to trick anyone into voting for him. And I completely support the notion of the separation of church and state. I also support the right of people to believe in God, the Devil or the Tooth Fairy if that's their bent. I just don't want them governing the populace based on religious beliefs. They're supposed to be governing based on the Constitution and the rule of law and I think Obama, for all his flaws, will do just that.

MDS · May 15, 2008, 12:45:18 PM

Damn shape-shifting Hebrews.

Cerevant · May 15, 2008, 02:02:11 PM

Quote from: Rome on May 15, 2008, 12:44:38 PM
And I completely support the notion of the separation of church and state. I also support the right of people to believe in God, the Devil or the Tooth Fairy if that's their bent. I just don't want them governing the populace based on religious beliefs. They're supposed to be governing based on the Constitution and the rule of law and I think Obama, for all his flaws, will do just that.

I agree completely, and I hope that Obama does remember the very insightful statement he made at the ministers conference months ago. My primary concern is with how this could be spun - unlike Wright, these are his words, words that can make independent minded person uneasy. It is hard to convince yourself that he's a fundie the day after he gets the NARAL (pro-choice) endorsement.

Uneasy, but there's no way in hell I'm voting for McCain.