The observation thread

Started by dpierce, October 22, 2007, 02:36:55 PM

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rjs246

Am I insane for not being sold on 'how good' this defense has been this year? They just don't ever impress me when I watch them, and I can't put my finger on why. Maybe I'm just being too cynical/nit-pick-y but the lack of points they've allowed just feels like a fluke every time I watch them play...

Anyway, it's possible that they do actually have a good core of defensive young-uns to build on, but I don't know, I guess I'm just not buying it yet.

Is rjs gonna have to choke a bitch?

Let them eat bootstraps.

Feva

Outside of the turnover dept... the defense has been pretty damn solid this year.  In the top 10 against the run all year, top 15 against the pass and top 10 overall.  If they could get the ball for the offense more often than they do... it would be an intimidating group.
"Now I'm completing up the other half of that triangle" - Emmitt Smith on joining Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin in the Hall of Fame

"If you have sex with a prostitute against her will, is that considered rape or shoplifting?" -- 2 Live Stews

rjs246

I guess maybe the offense's inability to produce has just thrown my entire perspective off.
Is rjs gonna have to choke a bitch?

Let them eat bootstraps.

Sgt PSN

Quote from: rjs246 on December 18, 2007, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on December 18, 2007, 04:14:52 PM
I think Patterson had a strong case for the Pro Bowl too.  He's had a really solid year and is among the league leaders in tackles by a DT. 
Patterson really came on towards the end of the year and the Patterson/Bunkley duo looks legit moving into next year, but I'm not sure he was really dominant enough to be a pro-bowler. Happy he's on the team and some accolades would be nice, but pro-bowl? Eh.

The Apacolypse is surely upon us because Munson hit it spot on.

Quote from: Munson on December 18, 2007, 05:39:32 PM
Yeah but how many truely dominant DT's have there been in the NFC this year. Patterson put  up solid numbers in tackles, among the most at the posistion actually, and had 4 sacks. I think at the very least a case can me made for it.

Sgt PSN

Quote from: rjs246 on December 18, 2007, 07:18:23 PM
Am I insane for not being sold on 'how good' this defense has been this year? They just don't ever impress me when I watch them, and I can't put my finger on why. Maybe I'm just being too cynical/nit-pick-y but the lack of points they've allowed just feels like a fluke every time I watch them play...

Anyway, it's possible that they do actually have a good core of defensive young-uns to build on, but I don't know, I guess I'm just not buying it yet.

2 things about the defense that are different than we're used to seeing....

1.  Feva already hit on the lack of turnovers they're creating, which is HUGE.  Especially this year because the offense needs the ball as many times as possible.

2.  The other thing is that the Eagles aren't 3 or 4 corners deep like we've gotten used to seeing either and I think that makes a big difference as well.  Not only does it contribute to the lack of turnovers but teams have been able to throw the ball with more success against them this year than they have in the past. 

ice grillin you

the defense has been solid this year but has come up short in two crucial areas...

1. as previously mentioned turnovers...and thats because their one true playmaker is a cornerback

2. coming up with the big stop...several games this year come to mind...most prominent being the griese drive
i can take a phrase thats rarely heard...flip it....now its a daily word

igy gettin it done like warrick

im the board pharmacist....always one step above yous

Seabiscuit36

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 18, 2007, 08:45:48 PM
2. coming up with the big stop...several games this year come to mind...most prominent being the griese drive
Don't ever mention that shtein again, still makes me sick to think about it
"For all the civic slurs, for all the unsavory things said of the Philadelphia fans, also say this: They could teach loyalty to a dog. Their capacity for pain is without limit." -Bill Lyons

Diomedes

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 18, 2007, 07:12:48 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on December 18, 2007, 06:44:35 PM
They were first round picks that the Eagles stole. 

yeah i forgot the eagles were smarter than every other team in the league

you misunderstand me

at the time, it was a coup.  I'm not going to try the "what did vigy post at the time" game, but I will argue that it wasn't crazy to be excited about the draft when it happened. 

There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists." - Yosemite Park Ranger

ice grillin you

no i didnt misunderstand you...nor am i saying i was upset with the draft at the time i just wasnt nearly excited as all the poeple giving them an A+ on that monday morning...but thats not what i was saying either

my point was theres a reason every team in the league passed on these guys enough times to make them drop where they did and that its a risk to take multiple guys in the same draft that plummeted like they did
i can take a phrase thats rarely heard...flip it....now its a daily word

igy gettin it done like warrick

im the board pharmacist....always one step above yous

Munson

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 18, 2007, 08:45:48 PM
the defense has been solid this year but has come up short in two crucial areas...

1. as previously mentioned turnovers...and thats because their one true playmaker is a cornerback

2. coming up with the big stop...several games this year come to mind...most prominent being the griese drive

Agreed on both. Except I wouldn't say they've been totally inept in the big stop department. When Dallas coverted the 4th down, I heard Joe Buck mention that it was the first 4th down a team had converted on the Eagles all year. They definately have come up short in some big situations, but I'd call it inconsistant at best in the big stop department, not downright horrible. Of course, memories like the Bears game come to mind... :boom

As for Gocong and Gaither...I think both have played well. Not great, not spectacular, but well enough. The run defense has been much better this year (though I agree it's probably due more to the emergence of Bunkley/Patterson and Spikes), but I've seen Gocong make more plays in the backfield this year then Dhani Jones made his entire career. You may be right about the Bradley pick as well, and I wouldn't mind Gaither getting moved back to WIL once Spikes is gone. I think he fits there a lot better then he does at MLB. If Gocong continues to improve, even in the slightest, we might have the first all around solid LB core we've had here since....shtein I can't even remember the last time. Caldwell-Trotter-Emmons? Willie T?? The problem being they don't have a dominant LB, or a play maker, which they desperately need (I heard somewhere this defense was lacking turnovers?). Spikes has had a few opportunities and literally dropped the ball.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 01, 2008, 05:10:48 PM
perhaps you could explain sd's reasons for "disliking" it as well since you seem to be so in tune with other peoples minds

Diomedes

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 18, 2007, 09:46:19 PM
no i didnt misunderstand you...nor am i saying i was upset with the draft at the time i just wasnt nearly excited as all the poeple giving them an A+ on that monday morning...but thats not what i was saying either

my point was theres a reason every team in the league passed on these guys enough times to make them drop where they did and that its a risk to take multiple guys in the same draft that plummeted like they did

alright.  well, I'm not going to apologize, nor should anyone really, for being excited about that draft.  it was promising, and farg...you got to get excited about something

and your point makes a lot of sense in hindsight.

i guess you enjoy both foresight AND hindsight, unlike everone else?
There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists." - Yosemite Park Ranger

Munson

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 18, 2007, 09:46:19 PM
no i didnt misunderstand you...nor am i saying i was upset with the draft at the time i just wasnt nearly excited as all the poeple giving them an A+ on that monday morning...but thats not what i was saying either

my point was theres a reason every team in the league passed on these guys enough times to make them drop where they did and that its a risk to take multiple guys in the same draft that plummeted like they did

Not to jump all over the hate IGY wagon here, but aren't you the one that always complains they draft the "Safe" picks and never go for the real athletic guys that might not be all brains or good character? You're correct, they dropped for a reason, and the Eagles took risks by taking them. But, isn't that what you've been screaming for? Wanting them to take risks in the draft and missing on those, instead of trying to take the "safe" pick and missing on those instead(Considine, Matt McCoy)? Maybe it was someone else who was saying that.

And I think it's dumb to discount them already, give them some more time in real game situations and then we'll have a better base to judge them on.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 01, 2008, 05:10:48 PM
perhaps you could explain sd's reasons for "disliking" it as well since you seem to be so in tune with other peoples minds

ice grillin you

Quote from: Munson on December 18, 2007, 09:52:42 PM


Not to jump all over the hate IGY wagon here, but aren't you the one that always complains they draft the "Safe" picks and never go for the real athletic guys that might not be all brains or good character? You're correct, they dropped for a reason, and the Eagles took risks by taking them. But, isn't that what you've been screaming for? Wanting them to take risks in the draft and missing on those, instead of trying to take the "safe" pick and missing on those instead(Considine, Matt McCoy)? Maybe it was someone else who was saying that.

And I think it's dumb to discount them already, give them some more time in real game situations and then we'll have a better base to judge them on.


ive never said anything about taking risks in the draft just playmakers/athletes...to me there isnt a risk in taking high ceiling guys...like i always say if youre gonna miss on a player id rather miss on the stud athlete than the vanilla wafer...plus the words athlete and playmaker are not terms i would place on offensive lineman...in fact the eagles most succesful aquisitions and draft picks are offensive lineman because they take the elast amount of evaluation and  and have the smallest amount of grey area

now if youre talking about a risky pick in terms of off the field issues as was the case with winston justice then i am all for taking a chance on a player like that...which is why i wasnt against the justice pick or the mjg pick

i also have not discounted either of these guys yet and have called for them to get more PT immediately


and your point makes a lot of sense in hindsight.

i guess you enjoy both foresight AND hindsight, unlike everone else?


hindsight was not needed in this situation...questioning why two guys dropped as far as they did at the time they were picked to me is natural...again i was not mad at that draft but i was definitely wary...i believe i gave it a B at the time or possibly even higher...i just wasnt whooping it up in the streets like everyone else
i can take a phrase thats rarely heard...flip it....now its a daily word

igy gettin it done like warrick

im the board pharmacist....always one step above yous

Feva

Quote from: EagleFeva on December 18, 2007, 07:36:04 PM
Outside of the turnover dept... the defense has been pretty damn solid this year.  In the top 10 against the run all year, top 15 against the pass and top 10 overall.  If they could get the ball for the offense more often than they do... it would be an intimidating group.

One other thing about the D... it would be great if there were another guy who could consistently get to the QB besides Killa.
"Now I'm completing up the other half of that triangle" - Emmitt Smith on joining Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin in the Hall of Fame

"If you have sex with a prostitute against her will, is that considered rape or shoplifting?" -- 2 Live Stews

PoopyfaceMcGee

Quote from: Sgt PSN on December 18, 2007, 07:46:30 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on December 18, 2007, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on December 18, 2007, 04:14:52 PM
I think Patterson had a strong case for the Pro Bowl too.  He's had a really solid year and is among the league leaders in tackles by a DT. 
Patterson really came on towards the end of the year and the Patterson/Bunkley duo looks legit moving into next year, but I'm not sure he was really dominant enough to be a pro-bowler. Happy he's on the team and some accolades would be nice, but pro-bowl? Eh.

The Apacolypse is surely upon us because Munson hit it spot on.

Quote from: Munson on December 18, 2007, 05:39:32 PM
Yeah but how many truely dominant DT's have there been in the NFC this year. Patterson put  up solid numbers in tackles, among the most at the posistion actually, and had 4 sacks. I think at the very least a case can me made for it.

Bottom line?  Fans, players, and coaches don't know which Williams is which in Minnesota, so they voted for both of them.