The Hip-Hop Thread

[ice grillin you]

hip hop is like jazz.  way too much of it to get started late in life.  i've got eight or ten jazz albums I love, but I'm daunted by how much other stuff there is, so I keep paying into the much more considerable investment I've made in rock, and it continues to pay off.

how the hell a guy like me is supposed to find and appreciate crap like the above, I have no idea.

these are all valid points...theres so much classic hip-hip from the the golden age (88-92) and the boom bap era (93-96) that is out of print its almost impossible to really get into depth...exactly like jazz as you mentioned and to a lesser extent 70's soul...which i would suggest investing in if you arent a huge rap fan as 70's soul is the foundation for which most great rap comes from...and soul music doesnt contain the slang and hard for some to decipher lyrics that hip-hop does...

anyway the reason why much of what you come across is garbage is because todays hip-hop is just awful...a good guideline woukld be to not listen to any rap past 1996...especially for a "beginner"

anyway if youre even semi interested in getting into classic hip-hop heres 10 must get albums that you probably dont have (and in most cases havent ever heard of) that you should start with

1. smif and wesson - dah shinin - 1994
an amazingly produced album that contains unreal basslines on just about every track backed up by incredibly laid back dark creepy vocals about real life on the streets of brooklyn...album contains an overall vibe that probably has never been duplicated...its a wintertime album that screams timberlands hoody bubble goose and skully...great to smoke blunts to as well

prepare to run another allnighter
But keep watch for the Cops cuz they rock glocks
Comin' on the Block tryin' to rock knots
Pigs be actin' like they bigga than us stillupfront's momz from da Streets
cuz we stalk mad deep when they walk beats
I guess they hold a grudge cuz I won't budge
Playin' tough, starin' down da Judge with my hands cuffed
Standing there with my nappy hair and my dirty gear, awww yeah
Now I'm up outta here
Pigs look me up and down with a frown
Is it cuz I'm brown or is it I'm from Bucktown?


2. main source - breakin atoms - 1994
a how to guide on sampling...youll find about a half dozen samples and snippets on each song but youd never know because of how seamlessly the productions is put together by the genius that is large professor....on particular song donalds byrds "think twice" which might be his most poppish sound cut is flipped by large professor such that it ends up being a rumbling low end sounding back drop ...most hiphop producers like dr dre for example polish up and expose their sources (atomic dog for example) large professors flips his samples almost to the point that he is trying to hide them...this album also introduced nas on the legendary possee cut "live at the bbq"

Aww shtein another young brother hit
I better go over my man's crib and get the pump
Cause to the cops shootin brothers is like playin baseball
And they're never in a slump
I guess when they shoot up a crew it's a grand slam
And when it's one it's a home run
But I'ma be ready with a wild pitch
My finger got a bad twitch plus I'm on the switch
side and step up to the batter's box
farg red and white, I got on Black Sox
But let him shoot a person from the White Sox
What's the call? Foul ball!
Babe Ruth woulda made a good cop, but he didn't
Instead he was a bigot, dig it
My life is valuable and I protect it like a gem
Instead of cops gettin me I'm goin out gettin them
And let em cough up blood like phlegm
It's grim [blam blam] but dead is my antonym
And legally they can't take a fall
Yo check it out it's just a friendly game of baseball


3. casual - fear itself - 1994
an emceeing clinic...battle rhymes at their best as casual just murders this album from start to finsih over brilliant chunky beats and boomin basslines...might be the single best emceeing performance of all time if it were not for....

I write raps
And when stillupfront's momz bite I clap
'Cos their shtein sounds better now.
You done let me down
I thought it would be dope but instead
Your shtein's dead
You gets fed
To the alligators lurking in the moat
Peep what I wrote
You bit so hard I though your shtein was a quote.

4. black sheep - a wolf in sheeps clothing - 1991
black sheep were part of the native tongue colective that included de la soul and tribe...his name is dres and hes the emcee of the group and he might be the best man to ever grab a mic in the history of rap...

Now, I was told to never bite off more then I could chew
But then you better bite enough for if you don't, my boy, you're blue
Now I wonder, can others see the system that I see
Or do they see and say they blame it on society?
The days of smart enough come to over, just say thousands
And as I live and learn because there's always someone mouthing
Speaking on an issue, praise you or they diss you
Lawnge as strong, they fly by me like Scott tissue
My people, from stillupfront to negro to man or color,
killed my father and my brother so that you could rape my mother
Now you wonder, why is it through instinct you fear
Wouldn't dare me to stare, one for yourself, you're out of here
Not to worry, to harm your intention of my creed
But to stop your greed and give me what I need
Opportunity, for a life of me
And generations to come with in tranquility
Now harmony, is a total love of things
For those who are inclined or better yet like to sing
But piece of mind it is my right for the spark will ignite
'Till I can catch a cab in town at midnight
'Till I can be myself and not be thought as worse
'Till I can buy a slice from Howard Beach to the Hearse
'Till I can get the pill without fear of eject
And occupations which I seek I can have if I select
Now if I so select and reach out to make touch
How can you say that I ask for too much?

5. diamond d - stunts blunts and hip-hop - 1992
there a reason diamonds crew is called diggin in the crates as thats what he does to build this album on some awesome funk jazz and soul loops...simplistic lyrics perfectly match the beats

I use my head cause I'm one smart kid
I don't own a Rolex but I absorb beats like a Kotex
And get funky just like Joe Tex
Word, see my rhymes make your brain tick
Brothers bump my tape because it's not the same shtein
That you heard last year or the past year
I ring bells at the cashier
Because I'm a fun going guy with the notty dreadlocks
I once lost a bill betting on the Red Sox

[ice grillin you]

6. nas - illmatic - 1994
you may actually have this as its well known both in and out of hip-hop circles as the quintessential hip-hop album...if you dont...get it now....as it is perfection from start to finish and at less than 45 minutes contains no filler just classic tracks...all of them....its a virtual new york city ghetto opera

The city never sleeps, full of villians and creeps
That's where I learned to do my hustle had to scuffle with freaks
I'ma addict for sneakers, twenties of buddah and bitches with beepers
In the streets I can greet ya, about blunts I teach ya
Inhale deep like the words of my breath
I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
I lay puzzle as I backtrack to earlier times
Nothing's equivalent, to the new york state of mind


7. x clan - to the east blackwards - 1990
with apologies to public enemy this is the best pro black album ever made...brother j a top 5 all time mc is militant and takes no prisoners over incredible g funk samples...im convinced to this day that this group from brooklyn is repsonsible for the g funk era that dr dre gets so much credit for

And you persist with legalities
I resist and rebel cause I'm reality
And while I'm boomin this, I'm not a Humanist
I'm just a pro-black stillupfront's mom and I'm doin this
And don't you try to prove, that you can make a move
Because I'm outraged devil, it's a different groove
And if you come again, this shtein'll never end
And we will fight through time through the very end
You get my point son?  You get my point dad?
I'm goin back to your caves and I'm quite bad
I do a war dance, and cause a avalanche
And do the great pimp strut cause I'm a black man!


8. brand nubian - one for all - 1990
another pro black album that introduced the 5% philosphy of the nation of gods and earths...never has there been a group or album that contained three mc's that just kill shtein like grand puba sadat x and lord jamar do on this album...just an incredible masterpiece that is my favorite hip-hop album not done by a tribe called quest

Now Huey Newton was slain and we all felt the pain
of Yusef Hawkins, and they was mad but we was squakin
They tried to show a false compassion, yet at the rally
they tried to bash in our brains
Further adding to the bloodstains
I was mad at this news and so was my brothers
And I wanted to get violent but I'm a lover of black mothers
And black mothers need sons
Not children that's been killed by guns..
It's, just a-nother form of slavery, a modern day lynchin
The others get the world, the black man feels the tension
inside, not out to hide, just provides us all the answer
I will stop racial injustice if I get the chance to!


9. umc's - fruits of nature - 1991
one of the most slept on albums in hip-hop history...does not get its due as the classic that it is...two of my favorite 10 or 20 songs ever are both on thsi record the incredible "morals" and "one to grow on"...little known fact this album is where the 'wutang style' was first referenced that would later be made famous by the wu tang clan

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000003HBV001001/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_001/102-5393644-0205752

10. the beatnuts - self titled (street level) - 1994
simply put the best produced album ever made...with crazy lyrics about farging drinking and smokin trees...kind of a licensed to ill with phenominal beats

You know that I know who's a friend, who's a foe
Best believe I know who's my girl, who's a hoe
It's the klepto, dropping verses while you dance
Blow! Blast you, call the ambulance
Owww, bitches all say while I'm steppin
What happened? You forgot to load your little weapon
Oh no, now you lay on the floor
While I puff indo and order a beer to go

[Seabiscuit36]

10. the beatnuts - self titled (street level) - 1994
simply put the best produced album ever made...with crazy lyrics about farging drinking and smokin trees...kind of a licensed to ill with phenominal beats

You know that I know who's a friend, who's a foe
Best believe I know who's my girl, who's a hoe
It's the klepto, dropping verses while you dance
Blow! Blast you, call the ambulance
Owww, bitches all say while I'm steppin
What happened? You forgot to load your little weapon
Oh no, now you lay on the floor
While I puff indo and order a beer to go

I have 9 of those 10 albums.  The beatnuts being one of my favorite. 

[Diomedes]

nice post vigy.  too bad you can't leave the instigating, insulting crap out of all the rest of your posts.  anyway...go ahead and upload those ten albums to sendshare and I'll get them.  I'll listen to rap for the next ten weeks and report back.

Also, I dig that the best shtein is on mix tapes (which aren't on tape anymore, but whatever) and the concept evades me.  Who's the artist?  The album that's being remixed?  The artists that album samples?  The guy who remixes it?  None of the above?  WTF??

Also also...when you've got an album by a rapper, and every track has like three guests on it, then who the hell am I listening to?  I can't tell them all apart, it's like a Dostoevsky novel where every character has ten diminutives...can't keep track.

The whole thing is a jumbled mess to a hipster like me.

[ice grillin you]

Also, I dig that the best shtein is on mix tapes (which aren't on tape anymore, but whatever) and the concept evades me.  Who's the artist?  The album that's being remixed?  The artists that album samples?  The guy who remixes it?  None of the above?  WTF??


the best shtein isnt on mixtapes...when a mix tape is good its real good but the market is so saturated with garbage stuff that most of it sucks...the best by far are the old school kid capri and ron g blends

to answer your questions mixtapes are put together by a specific dj who gets the songs directly from artists or off their albums...normally its never remixed...its just the original song blended with other tracks or laid over a different instrumental and cut up


Also also...when you've got an album by a rapper, and every track has like three guests on it, then who the hell am I listening to?  I can't tell them all apart, it's like a Dostoevsky novel where every character has ten diminutives...can't keep track.

this is a major problem with modern day rap...way way way to many guest appearences to the popint that it ruins any cohesiveness an album could obtain...back in the day cameo appearances by artists were so looked forward to...if an album had one or two they usually stood out big time...and many albums had no guests

an equally bad problem nowadays is that every album has 10 different producers...so none of the songs sound like they belong on the same album...in the old days youd have a producer and/or a dj and then one or two mc's and they all vibed off each other...they usually all grew up together and were crew from the neighborhood...they knew what each other wanted and made a ALBUM...

in the truest sense of the word its really hard to find hip-hop "albums" these days....they all seem like compilations...shtein just thrown together quick like to move units....talkin loud and aint sayin nothing

[MURP]

hip hop is like jazz.  way too much of it to get started late in life.  i've got eight or ten jazz albums I love, but I'm daunted by how much other stuff there is, so I keep paying into the much more considerable investment I've made in rock, and it continues to pay off.

how the hell a guy like me is supposed to find and appreciate crap like the above, I have no idea.  It would be nice if I had the energy. 

Good post.  I think that extends to many other genres in general.   For instance I have about 80 gigs worth of  metal MP3's,  I usually listen to new stuff every day, read articles etc and I am still constantly getting more and more music.  It never ends.  There is so much out there and not enough time to listen to everything.  I also like JAZZ and have a handful of albums i listen too ala Charles Mingus etc.   Id like to get into it deeper but there is just too much out there and I have invested all my music time to Metal just to keep up.    And im still behind.   YAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR!

[hbionic]

Nice post Ice GY.

I agree that the late 80's into the mid-90's was when hip-hop hit. From that point forward, late 90's to current year you have to go deeper underground to find the good shtein.

I think that one of the reasons that we're able to identify with the early hip-hop era is because there really,compared to now, weren't that many artists.

This is my recomendation if you want to start getting some kind of time tree and the branches they inspired:



Late 80's artists that made their mark with more than one hit song and the artists/groups affiliated with them:

East Coast:

Queen Latifah
MC Lyte
Run DMC
Kool Moe Dee
Dougie Fresh: Slick Rick
KRS-ONE: Channel Live, Mad-Lion
Eric B. & Rakim:
Biz Markie
Masta Ace
Jungle Brothers: De La Soul, A Trible Called Quest
Leaders of the new school: Busta Rhymes
Gangstarr: (a lot of groups did work with DJ Premier)- Jeru The Damaja, Group Home
Nice & Smooth
Big Daddy Kane
3rd Bass
EPMD: LL Cool J
Special Ed
Public Enemy


Chicago:
Common (Sense)

West Coast:
NWA: Ice Cube, Dr. Dre
Digital Underground: Tupac Shakur
King T: Tha Alkaholiks: Xzibit, The Loot Pack, Defari

1-Hit Wonders...but songs that are classics:

Audio Two-'Top Billin'
D-Nice- 'They Call Me D-Nice'
Kwame- 'Ownlee You'
Main Source- 'Looking out the front door'
Def Jef- 'Black to the future'

1 album wonders:

Black Sheep-(Two songs- Strobelight Honey and 'This or That'...I forget the actual title.
Poor Righteous Teachers


Early to Mid 90's

East Coast:

Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth
Smiff & Wessun aka that coco brovas
Fugees: Lauryn Hill, Wycleaf Jean
Notorious B.I.G.: Puff Daddy, Junior Mafia:Lil Kim
The Beatnuts
House Of Pain
Company Flow: El- P
Nas (formely Nas-D Nas) (right?)
Mobb Deep
Black Moon
The Roots
Wu-Tang
Diamond D and the Psychotic Neurotics
D.I.T.C.
LL Cool J
Jay-Z
Missy 'Misdemeanor' Elliot
Redman
Brand Nubian: Grand Puba
O.C.
Keith Murray

West Coast

Cypress Hill
Tha Alkaholiks
Xzibit
Tupac
Dr. Dre: Snoop Dogg
Ice Cube
Tha Pharcyde
DJ Quick: AMG

Hieroglyphics: Del the phunky homosapien (Ice Cube's cousin, Souls of Mischief, Casual)
Freestyle Fellowship: Aceyalone, Tha Pharcyde? (I don't remember)


The Deep South

Outkast (probably one of the most important groups to come out to carry the torch. They gave play to the 'Goodie Mob' to which your beloved 'Gnarls Barkley' comes from. Goodie Mob's best song was 'Cell Therapy'. Pretty dope song.


1 Album wonders
Digable Planets
Camp-Lo
Arrested Development
Funkdoobiest
Timbaland & Magoo (Timbaland produced Missy Eliot & Aaliyah)

Early to Mid 90's 1 hit wonders...but songs that are classic:

KAM- 'Peace Treaty'
MC Breed- 'Ain't no future in you frontin'
Ghetto Boys-'Mind is playing tricks on me'
Chubb Rock- 'Treat'em right'
Volume 10- 'Pistol Grip Pump'
ONYX- 'Slam'
Pace Won- 'I declare war'
Tha Loonies- 'I've got 5 on it'.
Tha Rascalz- 'Dreaded Fists or Fist of the north star'
Jamal- 'Fades'em all'
Craig Mack- Flava in ya ear...also the remix
Rampage- 'take it to the streets'
Nine-'name up in lights'
AZ- 'Sugarhill'

Late 90's to current period

East Coast

D.I.T.C (Digging in the crates): Big L (rest in peace), Big Pun, Big Joe
Mos Def
Talib Kweli
El-P
Quannum Projects-Lyrics Born, Latif and other mc's
Busta Rhymes: Flip mode squad

West Coast

Dilated Peoples
The Beat Junkies: Visionaries
Rass Kass
Planet Asia
Defari

Mid-West

Kanye West
Eminem
Common

One Album Wonders
Styles of Beyond

Honorable mentions:

The Arsonists (list to be continued)



Mic, Icee GY Feel free to add to the list.

Dio(and others who may be reading)...

Another thing you start to understand when listening to these groups is which group/artist was affiliated with who before they became famous. You start seeing and understanding the roots of where alot of these groups came from. You see who produced what, who wrote for who. Did you know Jay-Z wrote one of Dr. Dre's most popular singles?

There's alot of shtein like that.

You hear mainstream, underground and everything in between. You hear how IGY likes the hip-hop with more of a 'soul' content to it. Some people like myself can listen to some of the way out there shtein like El-P.

There's so much to appreciate in hip-hop. What it does for me is it gives me a sense of nostalgia. Always a good feeling.

Start from those groups, it ain't all of them, like IGY posted, but from my viewpoint, that's some of the shtein that really hit me and kept my love for hip-hop going.

[ice grillin you]

I think that one of the reasons that we're able to identify with the early hip-hop era is because there really,compared to now, weren't that many artists.

this is so true...oversaturation has really hurt it....thanks to the internet every tom dick and harry who has a computer and some garbage program like fruity loops can be a rapper or make beats

by far bar none tho the number one killer of rap music is sampling laws

[mussa]

hbionic, where's a tribe called quest in that list? did i miss it? shame on you!

[ice grillin you]

even hipsters like dio are aware of tribe

[hbionic]

Tribe is right after Jungle Brothers and De La. Under the 80's era.

Blind fargs.

[ice grillin you]

tribe didnt do a single thing in the 80's...perhaps that confused mussa

[Seabiscuit36]

IGY, you ever hear the 5 Deadly Venoms mixtape by Tony Touch?  Matty download this thing, ridiculously great 

http://www.filefactory.com/file/14b2cf/
For those interested.  Its a copy of a tape broken into 2 mp3's or Sides A and B

[hunt]

give das efx their props!

[phattymatty]

i still listen to dead serious every couple of months.

googily goo wheres the gravy