Jason Taylor stabbed in road rage incident

[Geowhizzer]

sure...it wouldnt even have to be a militant one...but before you look to flip it around you might first wanna focus on all the black people who everyday get mis charged over charged and over sentenced in what could be called hate crimes by the american justice system

i wanna murder some like colin ferguson

Not looking to "flip," IGY.  Just wondering aloud about our imperfect justice system.  Like I said, murder is murder, whatever the racial profile of the criminal, whatever the racial profile of the victim.  Attaching a different criminal designation because of "intent" just baffles me.

Now, evens like the Mississippi Burning trial in 1964 is the epitome of a racist judicial system in effect in the U.S. (especially the South, but unfortunately everywhere) at that time.  We're miles from that, thankfully, but also have quite a distance to go.

[ice grillin you]

but i think the hate aspect of a murder is equivalent to another crime committed during a murder...how is it any different than a murder charge carrying robbery or kidnapping along with it...

in fact imo the hate aspect of a murder is worse in that the perosn murdered is not going to ever get their money back if they were robbed....the thing is at least with something like robbery theres a reason for the crime...

when someone is attacked beacuse of their religion race sex weight age ect...it takes the randomness out of the crime and effects people not associated with the act itself...

when a black man gets dragged down the street because he got caught up in a bad drug deal then people who dont sell drugs need not fear for themselves...dont sell drugs and that wont happen to me...

but when a black man is dragged down the street cause hes black how do you tell someone to stop being black...all of sudden that fear is ever present...same with when a gay man is beaten and tied to a fence for being gay...or an obese kid is teased and beaten up in school cause hes fat...hate absolutely should be charged as a crime...its one of the worst things you can do imo

[MURP]

then im guilty, cause I hate the Cowboys. 

[ice grillin you]

theres exceptions to every rule

anyway i think even cowboy fans know they deserve whatever happens to them

[Rome]

I'm also unsure about the hate crime thing.   I mean, it's not such a giant leap from hate crime to mind crime in my way of thinking.

[MadMarchHare]

So....a hypothetical.

A 18 year old boy, son of a Grand Wizard, goes out and kills a black man.  Clearly a hate crime.  Guarantee the defense will be he never had a chance to think otherwise, he was destined to be a racist because of his father.  Does this absolve him?  Murder is murder, assiging levels of intent clouds the issue.  Defining hate allows for a very murky argument in a black and white legal system.  Best to KISS.

[ice grillin you]

i dont necessarily know if that is a hate crime...did the kid do it because the guy was black or because his dad told him to...if he did it because of the color of someones skin then hate gets attached to it...because a crime like that effects many more people than just the victim...and thus deserves special circumstances...how is it any less simple to attach robbery to a murder charge in order to extend a sentence or apply special circumstances to get the death penalty...

if you burned a cross in your front yard to intimidate a black neighbor you would/should be charged with a crime even though it was strictly a hate crime...why would you not be charged with intimidating a whole community of people by murdering someone just for being a part of said community...and a hate crime charge is for the intimidation and fear that the crime puts on the community from which the victim was a part of

its pretty clear cut and as simple as you can get to me...of course you have to prove the charge like any other crime...you are not arbitrarily throwin it in simply because there is black on white crime

[Geowhizzer]

its pretty clear cut and as simple as you can get to me...of course you have to prove the charge like any other crime...you are not arbitrarily throwin it in simply because there is black on white crime

I guess that's my point- how do you conclusively prove "intent?"

And I still question the jacking up of murder charges because of a racial/religious/gender issue.  Everyone's got a "reason" for killing someone.  Prosecute the murder, take away all the sentence-shortening malarky, make the convicted serve the full sentence.

To prosecute "internt" leads down a dangerous path.  Other "thought crimes" could be easily added.

[Diomedes]

...because a crime like that effects many more people than just the victim...

I dig what you're saying, to a point.  I also think that all violent crimes affect a lot of people.  For me, it begs the question: how specific can you make a good law?

[Father Demon]

To prosecute "intent" leads down a dangerous path.  Other "thought crimes" could be easily added.

I once got a traffic ticket for "attempted speeding".  Officer said he could tell by my actions my intent was to speed down the road.

It was dismissed, cop was a jackass.

But I find it difficult to charge someone with "intent" to do anything.  It really becomes a "Minority Report" type thing.

[Sgt PSN]

Do "hate crimes" carry a more severe punishment than non hate crimes?  If a white guy stabs a black guy and it's considered a hate crime would he get a heavier sentence than if it involved 2 people of the same race? 

Reason I bring this up is simply for the fact that I don't see the point in labelling it a hate crime unless it carries a bigger penalty.

[Geowhizzer]

Do "hate crimes" carry a more severe punishment than non hate crimes?  If a white guy stabs a black guy and it's considered a hate crime would he get a heavier sentence than if it involved 2 people of the same race? 

Reason I bring this up is simply for the fact that I don't see the point in labelling it a hate crime unless it carries a bigger penalty.

Yes, there are additional penalties.

[ice grillin you]

I guess that's my point- how do you conclusively prove "intent?"

its not intent as much as its a motive...and motive is something that is proved a lot...if the motive ends up being hate then its an extra charge...no different than if someone is murdered and after the fact they found out thru atm receipts that he should have had money on his person but didnt...the person charged with that murder with also get charged with robbery...his intent was to get money off the victim...why can you be charged with that but not killing someone because of their skin color or sexual preference...both are motives or 'intents'

I once got a traffic ticket for "attempted speeding".  Officer said he could tell by my actions my intent was to speed down the road.

this is apples and club soda...no one is talking about charging people for what they are thinking of doing...its what they did do...


I also think that all violent crimes affect a lot of people

i agree but none quite like a hate crime that can affect an entire segment of society...certain crimes deserve special circumstances...dealing drugs in a school zone carries a stiffer penalty than in the castle hill houses...raping a child will carry more years than raping a woman....in certain instances there must be extra laws to protect groups of people...children in the above examples....cop killers are treated differently...victims of hate crimes are a group that needs extra protection as well...

[Father Demon]

Chill, Wig...

I just like talking about the dumbass cop that gave me a ticket for attempted speeding.

[ice grillin you]

im cool as a polar bears toe nails