Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[ice grillin you]

he did put a weapon in the hands of people not qualified to use it...but the shooting itself was unintentional in that they thought it was a war plane not a commercial aircraft

When a kid shoots his sibling's face off with a gun that his negligent parent left lying around, we want the parent held responsible. Imagine your response if the parent actually handed the kid a gun.

if every time a national leader was killed for killing other countries innocent civilians wed have a lot of vice presidents getting promotions

[Diomedes]

i mean i dont care if you and romey form a two man killing team and take him out...probably have a better chance than the dutch

im just saying when it happened especially and even now people say that the us and our European allies should have done some retaliation bombing or went into crimea etc...i just dont think it warranted a military response like that and wed frankly been hypocrites if wed done anything

No no, I agree that the best thing to do here is not to take the bait, to be civilized about it, to investigate, learn what we can, etc.

But.  Now that we know what's up...how do you deal with it?  You name and charge a few scapegoats?  That's it?   

It's galling to me that Putin will get away with this.

Also...explain what you mean about the hypocrisy. 

[Sgt PSN]

Except that our POTUS isn't arming the Bundy militia with anti-aircraft missiles. 

[Diomedes]

if every time a national leader was killed for killing other countries innocent civilians wed have a lot of vice presidents getting promotions

And perhaps, fewer plane loads of civilians getting blown up, because Presidents don't want the frogmen climbing in their windows.  No?

[General_Failure]

Except that our POTUS isn't arming the Bundy militia with anti-aircraft missiles. 

No, our POTUS is arming middle eastern militias and have been since the 70s when they were being used as a proxy against the Soviet Union.

Nobody is ever going to say that Putin isn't a scumbag, but nuclear powers are never going to be held accountable for their actions. At least not the ones that spend a lot of money on intelligence and espionage.

[Rome]

You know we have a lot to answer for as Americans too.  Our leaders have committed mass murders since the beginning, so any self-righteous calls for Putin's neck should probably be restrained a bit.

That said, the man is a pig and deserves a really terrible end. 

[ice grillin you]

Except that our POTUS isn't arming the Bundy militia with anti-aircraft missiles. 

i guess its better if our own military accidentally puts a missile into the living room of a family of innocent iraqis than if a ukranian rebel force uses a russian missile launcher to do the same...cause we did it ourselves its better?

but what if isreal uses one of ours to blow up  a whole bunch of innocent palenstinians?...is that the same as what putin did?

or are we allowed to validate anything we do compared to others because obama is a good man and their leader isnt

dont get me wrong i was horrified by the downing of the plane...but in terms of anger i was way more pissed off at putin ordering the murder of boris nemtsov

[Sgt PSN]

No. It's awful no matter who does it, including the US.  Only thing I'm really taking issue with what you're saying is the attempt to minimize it as a fog of war-type incident or that this isn't necessarily on Putin because of who he sold the weapons to.

It's awful no matter the circumstances or intent that led to it.

[Rome]

It wasn't a fog of war incident.  They deliberately targeted a civilian aircraft and blew it out of the sky.  We don't do shtein like that.  We do a lot of nasty things but we intentionally avoid civilian casualties. 

[ice grillin you]

if minimizing it means i dont think we should have had a military response to it then yes im minimizing it

and it was a fog of war thing...they thought it was a fighter jet....they didnt intentionally shoot down a passenger plane...just like when we blew up the hospital in afghanistan when we thought it was a building that was housing our enemy

[Diomedes]

How are these the same:

U.S. gives weapons to Israel.  Isreal accidentally kills non-combatant Palestinians.
Russia gives weapons to Ukrainian seperatists.  Rebels shoot down Dutch civilian airplane.

[ice grillin you]

innocent civilian lives accidentally killed in a war....how is it not the same

[Diomedes]

and it was a fog of war thing...they thought it was a fighter jet....they didnt intentionally shoot down a passenger plane...j

Yeah, I think you're mistaken.  It was a passenger plane from jump.  If I recall, the most charitable way to paint it was, they thought it was a Ukrainian military passenger plane carrying the President and/or other officials.

But that's an awful lot of benefit of doubt to grant this lot.

I think they were just shooting at anything they could target.

[Diomedes]

innocent civilian lives accidentally killed in a war....how is it not the same

The Dutch aren't in the fight?

[Rome]

Ray Charles can see the difference on radar between a fighter jet and an airbus. 

They knew and lit them up anyway.