The 'Mass-Shooting In The US' thread

[Munson]

No one needs an AR-15 or any weapon similar to that. They are not hunting guns (well they are for human hunting). Extended mags aren't needed for handguns.

No one needs a car that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds or tops out at 200mph.  But they're cool as shtein and people want them.  If you want to regulate one thing based on what people need vs what they don't need, then you need to regulate everything that people don't actually need.  And who makes the determination as to what is necessary and what isn't? 

The "don't tread on me and take my guns" crowd thinks pro-gun reform people want them all wiped off the face of the earth. But its not even that. Limit what John Q Public is allowed to own/buy. Make them heavily regulated via registration.

Technically, this actually is in direct contrast to the 2nd amendment.  Part of the purpose of the amendment is so that people can defend themselves and their property from the fed gov't should the feds ever decide to wage war against the people.  So if we start putting limitations on what people can own, we do in a way, put more power in the feds' hands, and that's something I'm not really on board with.  Understand that my argument here isn't specifically about being pro-gun as much as it's about preventing the fed gov't from gaining more power.       

And lets be real about owning a gun...most people are NOT equipped to handle themselves as they believe they are with a weapon. The ones who think they can shoot a human being, and be a good enough shot, to shoot the offender while the adrenaline is flowing are in for a rude awakening should they ever get in that situation.

Agreed.  Which is why I would fully support some sort of required weapons safety and training program for any gun owner. 

The NRA folks want everyone armed.

The NRA is to gun rights as Al Sharpton is to Civil Rights.  Seriously....farg the NRA.  Bunch of paranoid whack jobs who are more concerned with whether or not Obama is going to raid their armory than they are with schools and movie theaters getting shot up, or toddlers picking up daddy's pistol of the nightstand and blowing his head off. But just because the NRA is group of deranged lunatics, that doesn't necessarily mean that taking a completely opposite stance from them is the right thing to do. 

I believe in owning a handgun. And I would be willing to have it registered and pay a yearly registration fee. I would also be wiling to submit myself to whatever lengthy background check and waiting period that goes along with it. I do not believe in owning arsenals nor do I believe in owning long guns outside of a shotgun and hunting rifle.

Luckily no one can or will force you to purchase a gun that you don't want.  But just because it doesn't fit in your comfort zone doesn't necessarily mean that others should have to live according to your beliefs.....ie: Kim Davis.

Sarge I am sure you saw people in your military career who weren't good shots or people who you did not exhibit the mental capacity to be trusted with weapons outside of the controlled military environment.

Oh yeah.....I saw plenty of people who were more likely to take out their own men rather than the enemy if they ever saw combat.  I also see plenty of really bad drivers every day who have no business being behind the wheel of a car.....unless they are actually behind the car and are getting run over. 

People say "well how do you even begin to regulate and fix this"...there's only one way to eat an elephant and that is bit by bit. Gotta start somewhere....

It's the end point that I'm more concerned with.

You keep bringing up the car example, but here's the thing....A car was built to do something other than kill people. And because they are so dangerous, we have reacted in kind with extreme measures of saftey. Mandatory training for people who want to use a car anywhere from a few months to a year+, if you count the time where new drivers have to be supervised while driving. To mention the whole needing to be registered, insured, etc.

If we handled new gun owners the same way we handled new car drivers, I'd be incredibly happy.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Dio is spot on with the prison sentences. Stop locking people up for years for small drug possessions and hammer the shtein out of gun crime offenders.

Also Munson is right with the rebuttal to the car example.

Cars need licensed drivers and insured drivers. You don't have to have either to own a gun.

Imagine if you were required to carry insurance to own a gun? Hell I like that idea a lot to be honest.

So when someone's kid is playing with that glock they carelessly left out and the kid accidentally shoots their little friend? Parents not only go to jail for poorly securing their weapon but their gun insurance policy pays out to the dead kids family.

[Diomedes]

You're kid kills himself with your gun...life sentence for you.  His death ain't punishment enough.

Stop farging around.

[Sgt PSN]

Munson, which part of my saying that I'd fully support gun training classes for gun owners (which would be the same thing as requiring a DL for cars) didn't you understand?

And if you dig deep enough in this thread, I'm almost certain that I said like 2 or 3 years ago that I'd be down with gun owners having to carry some sort of insurance policy.

And I agree 100% with Dio on the extremely severe prison sentences.

I don't have a problem with tightening things up a little bit...or even a lot. That's never been the message. What I have been saying is that I don't see any of these ideas actually being effective at reducing the gun violence in this country.

[ice grillin you]

bottom line is there are literally hundreds of things we could do....we instead do nothing

and in fact a large part of our country thinks the answer is to arm more people

we are a pathetic joke

[Sgt PSN]

Absolutely.

[Geowhizzer]

To say that mass shootings happen in the US and not in other nations is incorrect.

Politifact article on Obama's statements to that effect.

I'm not saying that I'm not in favor of some common-sense gun legislation - why should gun owners not be registered? - but the facts just do not support a blanket statement that mass shootings are solely a U.S. problem.

Now, the overall murder rate?  That could be a more secure starting point for this conversation.  Just not as sensationalist in its nature.

[hunt]

nm...already posted.

[General_Failure]

Bel Air's about to get real crowded.

[PhillyPhreak54]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Huh...so about those stricter regulations...bought legally. Time to tighten up.

[PhillyPhreak54]

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/mom-oregon-shooter-bragged-weapons-online-report-article-1.2383689?cid=msn

Damn lady...

[Seabiscuit36]

Short of rounding up every gun on the planet and melting them down, what do people really expect reform to accomplish?  Serious question. What's the actual end game?

I've said for years that I'm on board with some moderate reform to make it harder for the wrong people to legally purchase guns, but what's that really going to solve? 

As much as we have a problem with gun violence in this country, there's really no legislation that can even slightly improve things, let alone make a significant change.

The change has to be in our culture more than anything else.

I'll just say that Legislation to ban them will not fix the issue at hand.  Even when the legislation is enacted, it opens up the door for so many workarounds that were not envisioned by those writing the laws that it makes them a moot point. 

Look at Chicago's handgun ban, and how the murder rate by handgun has increased.  Dio is on point about punishment for commission of felony's with a weapon laws.  You're going to have a much broader impact if the sentence is so harsh that it has an impact on the mentality of those perpetrating the crime.  If you want to crack down on straw purchases, this is where the punishment part should completely mimic the penalties of the person who commits the crime. 

You're never going to round up all of the weapons in this country, and if you do you would need to enact mandatory registration of any and all firearms.  Cuomo did that for any assault weapons aka black scary guns in NY(Safe Act), and its widely considered a failure since the list is mostly comprised of police officers and military registrants who had to register to maintain a clean record.   At last count they estimated between a 5-10% compliance rate, not exactly what Cuomo envisioned. 

We've covered it before, the laws all depend on the state that you reside.  The Brady Bill basically sets the stage for all background checks thru state and federal db's for new gun purchases.  Where it falls short is that it's only applies for sales from FFL's and relies on states to cover individual sales.  The Federal NICS DB works in its current form, but it can't identify those who are having mental breakdowns that haven't been formally sent for evaluation. 

In the end, I'd like to see Enhanced penalties for straw purchases and FFL requirements for any purchases or transfers of possession as a national statute.  Required training and certification for any regulated weapon and Storage requirements.  The mental health portion is the toughest to change because of HIPPA laws, but I do think there has to be a compromise there. 

   

[ice grillin you]

punishment does not deter crime...never has never will

availability is the answer

[Diomedes]

Punishment absolutely does deter crime.  Why else do dealers have children carry their dope and guns?  Because they don't want to do the time, and the kids won't get real time. 

There are a lot of motherfargers carrying today who would leave it at home tomorrow if they knew they'd be down for 20 no parole if they got picked up.

[ice grillin you]

crime is higher in places where there is the death penalty....mandatory minimum sentences dud nothing to stop drugs

someone is not going to use a gun because the will get 40 years instead of 15