A lot of focus has been put on Andy Reid calling more running plays, but I'm curious about what he actually has to work with in the backfield.
I'm sure you all know that I am not a fan of the team's running back situation. From top to bottom I see a lot of problems but I'm going to try and objectively look at the strengths and weaknesses of the runningback options and try to get some feedback from you assbags.
1. Westbrook:
Strengths
- speed
- speed
- speed
- fantastic receiver out of the backfield
- unbelieveably dangerous in the open field.
Weaknesses
- frequently injured
- hasn't shown the ability to get 'tough' yards inside
- has never been a consistent 17-25 carry a game guy
2. Moats
Strengths
- speed
- speed
- rumor has it that he's a stronger inside runner than Westbrook
Weaknesses
- I haven't seen him be a stronger inside runner. At this point its all rumor.
- Has a history of fumbles
- Has struggled in the passing game
- Has struggled with protection responsibilities
- Has the worst blog ever
3. Mahe
Strengths
- knows the offense
- can return punts
- has decent hands
- owns a funny t-shirt
Weaknesses
- Will never, ever, ever be a threat to break a big play
- Has no size or strength and can have the ball stripped
- Has no size or strength and cannot run inside
- Is not fast enough to make up for his lack of size and strength
- Is mormon
4. Perry
Strengths
- He runs north-south with strength
- Can return kicks
Weaknesses
- He is always hurt. Always. Never not hurt.
- Has been fumbling
5. Buckhalter
Strengths
- Runs with strength and authority inside and out
Weaknesses
- His legs are made out of raw spaghetti.
- Has struggled in the passing game
- Has struggled with protection responsibilities
I would say that top to bottom this group TERRIFIES me. I don't see a single well-rounded, make me feel good about the running game, back in the bunch.
Make me feel better, jerks.
Perry's fumbles can be fixed, and he hits the holes quick.
You'll probably die of alcohol poisoning before Dorsey Levens gets called back.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 12:11:52 AM
Perry's fumbles can be fixed, and he hits the holes quick.
It took Tiki Barber, a FAR superior running back, 6 full seasons to fix his fumbling problems. And that was without having to constantly focus on rehabbing. I odn't see Perry miraculously learning to hold on to the ball.
The Eagles are interested in Stephen Davis. There... feel better?
IGY's not too far down the call list after Davis, so you've got that to look forward to.
I hate you all.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 12:19:33 AM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 12:11:52 AM
Perry's fumbles can be fixed, and he hits the holes quick.
It took Tiki Barber, a FAR superior running back, 6 full seasons to fix his fumbling problems. And that was without having to constantly focus on rehabbing. I odn't see Perry miraculously learning to hold on to the ball.
It only took him one. He didn't try to fix it until a couple seasons ago. Then when he got serious about fixing it, he fixed it immediately. It's not hard, all you have to do is hold the ball the right way.
That's a great story and all, but I'm pretty sure the fact that he fumbled all the time was brought up once or twice before he 'got serious about it'. That's bullshtein that he feeds the press. Believe that.
Okay, well why can't Perry just do what Tiki does, since Tiki solved it? Hold the ball with your elbows pointing down and holding the ball to your chest.
You did a really good job at formatting your post. Proper usage of the bold feature, and all your sub-points lined up perfectly. Even your grammar and punctuation were spot on.
Quote from: Father Demon on August 18, 2006, 12:31:19 AM
You did a really good job at formatting your post. Proper usage of the bold feature, and all your sub-points lined up perfectly. Even your grammar and punctuation were spot on.
See. At least someone is trying to make me feel better.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 12:31:06 AM
Okay, well why can't Perry just do what Tiki does, since Tiki solved it? Hold the ball with your elbows pointing down and holding the ball to your chest.
I'm sure no one has suggested that to him. You should send him a text message.
I doubt anyone did, or else you might've seen it out of him by now.
You're probably right. Why would all of those professional football coaches give him any advice about how to stop fumbling? He's depserately in need of your assistance! Idiot.
He didn't fumble tonight so maybe he fixed it and didn't need to use Tiki's method.
I mean did you really want us to make you feel better or were you really again just stating your displeasure with the running situation with tossing in a couple of minor strengths to not be a total cynic?
Its pretty apparent what you see is what you get from the other RB's, with the exception of Westbrook having a better year than last
feel better :yay
I want someone to explain to me how this running game is going to be effective. I don't see it. I see the individual strengths of the players listed, but they don't add up to a successful running attack to me.
Westbrook will get like 850 rushing. Moats will get like 650, and we'll fill in the rest with whatever. That's like over 1500 yards including a 3rd back combined.
ZING!
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 12:45:38 AM
I want someone to explain to me how this running game is going to be effective. I don't see it. I see the individual strengths of the players listed, but they don't add up to a successful running attack to me.
Every back except Buckhalter appears capable of running behind this O line. So, it doesn't really matter who's back there as long as they can cut back and hold on to the ball.
Quote from: General_Failure on August 18, 2006, 12:55:22 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 12:45:38 AM
I want someone to explain to me how this running game is going to be effective. I don't see it. I see the individual strengths of the players listed, but they don't add up to a successful running attack to me.
Every back except Buckhalter appears capable of running behind this O line. So, it doesn't really matter who's back there as long as they can cut back and hold on to the ball.
diagree wholeheartedly
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 12:45:38 AM
I want someone to explain to me how this running game is going to be effective. I don't see it. I see the individual strengths of the players listed, but they don't add up to a successful running attack to me.
well your spot on my friend. Westbrook and the consistent progress of the OL is your answer.
Its the same as the other successful running teams in the NFL. Not comparing either if these RB's to Westbrook: Ladanian has himself, LJ has himself and Alexander has himself, Steven Jackson same thing, Dunn has Duckett with the only exception in a 1-2 change of pace punch (which we dont have)--all with the succesful blocking of the OL.
You dont need multiple RB's to be successful. All RB's have certain strenghts, but you have to have established skill with it. Westbrooks skill overshadows all of the Eagles RB's. Now if he gets hurt, consider our running game piss poor...bottom line
Quote from: General_Failure on August 18, 2006, 12:55:22 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 12:45:38 AM
I want someone to explain to me how this running game is going to be effective. I don't see it. I see the individual strengths of the players listed, but they don't add up to a successful running attack to me.
Every back except Buckhalter appears capable of running behind this O line. So, it doesn't really matter who's back there as long as they can cut back and hold on to the ball.
Yeah I can't say I actually agree with that. Westbrook seems capable of running behind this line so far in the preseason. Other than that, no one seems to have broken through in the slightest.
If you really want an optimistic view for the backs look at the 2003 backs. Westbrook then was very successful, as were Duce and Buck. Now Buck isn't what he was then, and Duce isn't here, but Moats has more big play ability than either of those, and it still remains to be seen if we'll even sign or trade for a RB. So you sacrifice a little stability for more big play ability, and this offensive line is better than 2003's so we should have bigger holes.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 01:00:09 AM
Quote from: General_Failure on August 18, 2006, 12:55:22 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 12:45:38 AM
I want someone to explain to me how this running game is going to be effective. I don't see it. I see the individual strengths of the players listed, but they don't add up to a successful running attack to me.
Every back except Buckhalter appears capable of running behind this O line. So, it doesn't really matter who's back there as long as they can cut back and hold on to the ball.
Yeah I can't say I actually agree with that. Westbrook seems capable of running behind this line so far in the preseason. Other than that, no one seems to have broken through in the slightest.
Reno had a couple of good runs tonight. Marty Johnson has done well with the backups. Mahe, Perry, Westbrook, and Johnson all have at least one carry over ten yards. The blocking is there even with roulette wheel of RBs, FBs, and pass-catching TEs.
Moats didn't look good tonight, but he had no blocking. He played very well last year when he got on the field. I don't get all this negativity with Moats all of a sudden. He bangs up his knee in camp and has one fumble, and all of a sudden he's a bum.
His fumble problems aren't THAT bad. At least last year they weren't. He fumbles a few times here and there, but he's no Perry from the Oakland game.
You see, the problem I see with the 2003 comparison is that Westbrook is still Westbrook but we have NO IDEA what the other backs have to offer.
Buckhalter might have something left in the tank, but who's going to depend on that? He's definitely not the same Buckhalter that we had in 2003.
Duce was a great blocker, a great receiver and an adequate runner. Moats, we think, is the complete opposite. Can't block, can't catch, but has homerun potential.
If there was some sort of 3-headed monster this year, it would be WAY different than 2003 and far less consistent.
Moats didn't impress you last season? He came in after having trouble learning the offense and busted like 2 or 3 50 yard runs in a span of 2 games. He settled down a bit after, but he shows flashes of big play ability. Whether he can consistently do it remains to be seen, but again, he didn't run behind the first team line tonight.
Moats is very fast. I don't think he'll have much trouble making plays.
Moats has seemed to work on his catching abilities. But after Westbrook, do we really need any of the other guys to be better then average at catching the ball?
Moats need to learn how to hit hte cut back lanes like Westbrook (and Mahe so far in pre season), so that his speed will be used to its full potential. Other the nthat, he does pound the ball up in there, and behind our first line he should do okay with that. He did a good job with it last year, playing with some scrubs on offense.
Buckhalter didn't do okay with pounding it in there tonight, but lets give him more then one pre-season game before we decide. He's had a good camp so far. Lets see how he performs in the next game. If he sucks it up again behind the first line, I think we can say he's effectively done. He doesn't have the knees to hit the cut back lanes, so if his power isn't working, he's screwed.
Basically I think you undervalue/underappreciate what Westbrook brings to the table and overvalue your view of him as "injury prone". If you weren't so stuck on his apparent proneness to injury, you'd love our RB's.
Moats is like Westbrook, but a better runner then a pass catcher. You've only seen him in one pre-season game this year, and he was behind the 2nd/3rd team o-line
It will be okay, rjs. I promise.
One thing to remember with Buck is that it's tough to come down on him alone for his running tonight because the O-line was shtein for opening holes for him to run through. I honestly couldn't see anyone, including Westbrook, doing much with the lack of opportunities that the O-line produced.
Mahe did.
this team is forced to be a balanced team somehow this year or they are in big trouble
when these defenses crowd the box because we have no threat at WR, it wont matter if Moats has Carl Lewis speed, Buckhalter eats a can of spinach before the game, and Mahe somehow gains 15lbs to stay on his feet
they wont win games because of a poor division and good defense, they'll be scraping big time to even come close to the playoff
I wish it was a different story and we could revert back to 03, but its not that easy witout solid progression and major improvements
Reggie Brown is going to get 70-75 catches and 1000 yards or so. At least McNabb has a go-to guy. I do think we'll get Lelie or some other receiver to help the depth, but these receivers aren't that awful. They just aren't big names. The depth is the issue, not the talent.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 01:00:37 AM
If you really want an optimistic view for the backs look at the 2003 backs. Westbrook then was very successful, as were Duce and Buck. Now Buck isn't what he was then, and Duce isn't here, but Moats has more big play ability than either of those, and it still remains to be seen if we'll even sign or trade for a RB. So you sacrifice a little stability for more big play ability, and this offensive line is better than 2003's so we should have bigger holes.
Worst comparison ever. We'd kill for a 2003 Duce or a 2003 Buckhalter right now.
1. Westbrook:
Strengths
- speed
- speed
- speed
- fantastic receiver out of the backfield
- unbelieveably dangerous in the open field.
Weaknesses
- frequently injured
- hasn't shown the ability to get 'tough' yards inside
- has never been a consistent 17-25 carry a game guy
dont get me wrong when i say this because they absolutely need a real nfl back-up/#2 back but in the end its really pretty simple...westbrook stays healthy the rb position is ok....westbrook goes down and its all over
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 18, 2006, 08:03:08 AM
1. Westbrook:
Strengths
- speed
- speed
- speed
- fantastic receiver out of the backfield
- unbelieveably dangerous in the open field.
Weaknesses
- frequently injured
- hasn't shown the ability to get 'tough' yards inside
- has never been a consistent 17-25 carry a game guy
dont get me wrong when i say this because they absolutely need a real nfl back-up/#2 back but in the end its really pretty simple...westbrook stays healthy the rb position is ok....westbrook goes down and its all over
agreed.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 01:44:18 AM
Reggie Brown is going to get 70-75 catches and 1000 yards or so. At least McNabb has a go-to guy. I do think we'll get Lelie or some other receiver to help the depth, but these receivers aren't that awful. They just aren't big names. The depth is the issue, not the talent.
They have plenty of depth. The problems is they're untested, (Avant) unproven (McCants & Gaffney) or flat-out suck (Greg Lewis).
The usual "pick up, then hope and pray" method of selecting receivers has gotten old, already. If they're going to run an offense predicated on the pass, then they need to quit farging around and get some proven talent at the positions.
I'm not saying that Reggie, Hank or Avant won't be great players. I'm hoping they will. But I'm just a fan and me "hoping" they get it done isn't the same thing as Andy & Heckert going out and doing whatever they need to do to get it done.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 12:01:53 AM
A lot of focus has been put on Andy Reid calling more running plays, but I'm curious about what he actually has to work with in the backfield.
I'm sure you all know that I am not a fan of the team's running back situation. From top to bottom I see a lot of problems but I'm going to try and objectively look at the strengths and weaknesses of the runningback options and try to get some feedback from you assbags.
1. Westbrook:
Strengths
- speed
- speed
- speed
- fantastic receiver out of the backfield
- unbelieveably dangerous in the open field.
Weaknesses
- frequently injured
- hasn't shown the ability to get 'tough' yards inside
- has never been a consistent 17-25 carry a game guy
2. Moats
Strengths
- speed
- speed
- rumor has it that he's a stronger inside runner than Westbrook
Weaknesses
- I haven't seen him be a stronger inside runner. At this point its all rumor.
- Has a history of fumbles
- Has struggled in the passing game
- Has struggled with protection responsibilities
- Has the worst blog ever
3. Mahe
Strengths
- knows the offense
- can return punts
- has decent hands
- owns a funny t-shirt
Weaknesses
- Will never, ever, ever be a threat to break a big play
- Has no size or strength and can have the ball stripped
- Has no size or strength and cannot run inside
- Is not fast enough to make up for his lack of size and strength
- Is mormon
4. Perry
Strengths
- He runs north-south with strength
- Can return kicks
Weaknesses
- He is always hurt. Always. Never not hurt.
- Has been fumbling
5. Buckhalter
Strengths
- Runs with strength and authority inside and out
Weaknesses
- His legs are made out of raw spaghetti.
- Has struggled in the passing game
- Has struggled with protection responsibilities
I would say that top to bottom this group TERRIFIES me. I don't see a single well-rounded, make me feel good about the running game, back in the bunch.
Make me feel better, jerks.
and this is exactly why the Eagles need to go get Duckett or Musa Smith or ANYONE who can stay healthy
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 01:44:18 AM
Reggie Brown is going to get 70-75 catches and 1000 yards or so. At least McNabb has a go-to guy. I do think we'll get Lelie or some other receiver to help the depth, but these receivers aren't that awful. They just aren't big names. The depth is the issue, not the talent.
Bunkley 78's STONE COLD LOCKWe've seen a lot of evidence so far. Good prediction!
RJS,
You want to feel good about our RB situation?
Marty Johnson. Say no more.
That, or have Mahe rub your prostate for a few bucks.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on August 18, 2006, 10:18:32 AM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 01:44:18 AM
Reggie Brown is going to get 70-75 catches and 1000 yards or so. At least McNabb has a go-to guy. I do think we'll get Lelie or some other receiver to help the depth, but these receivers aren't that awful. They just aren't big names. The depth is the issue, not the talent.
Bunkley 78's STONE COLD LOCK
We've seen a lot of evidence so far. Good prediction!
RJS,
You want to feel good about our RB situation? Marty Johnson. Say no more.
That, or have Mahe rub your prostate for a few bucks.
So Reggie Brown hasn't been able to get open all preseason but he'll definitely get 70 catches and 1000 yards this year?
Makes perfect sense to me.
The Mahe prostate rub may end up being the only thing that makes me feel better. Gross.
So Reggie Brown hasn't been able to get open all preseason but he'll definitely get 70 catches and 1000 yards this year?
forget this preseason
i wanna know where it started and who started the reggie bandwagon from last year that led to the notion that he would be a productive wr this year much less a #1 guy...everyone bought into this crap and i just didnt and dont understand it
in reality he should be coming into this season as a promising #3 guy behind two quality nfl wr's and we all sit back and watch his development and hope that he shows the ability to one day take over one of the first two spots
instead the guy is a #1 wr and is supposed to be replacing arguably the best wr in the nfl
its outrageous
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 11:59:26 AM
The Mahe prostate rub may end up being the only thing that makes me feel better. Gross.
He'll even shine your shoes for only $2 more!
Quote from: FFatPatt on August 18, 2006, 12:09:37 PM
He'll even shine your shoes for only $2 more!
With his ass funk. Which I hear can shine a shoe like no one's business.
Westbrook and LJ will lead the team in receptions. If Reggie and Mr. Baskett can contribute too, that's nice.
Quote from: General_Failure on August 18, 2006, 12:25:08 PM
Westbrook and LJ will lead the team in receptions. If Reggie and Mr. Baskett can contribute too, that's nice.
Winnar.
The preseason has no relevance to how Reggie will do during the regular season. They are running a vanilla offense, and I doubt they are even running plays for Reggie. They need to see what so many other receivers can do to decide whether or not to pick another receiver up. Plus they just have so many guys fighting for jobs. Reggie Brown is the only one not fighting for a job, therefore they don't need to go to him. He'll get open during the season plenty.
You can hate on Reggie all you want, but you are basing it on nothing.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 18, 2006, 08:39:48 AM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 01:44:18 AM
Reggie Brown is going to get 70-75 catches and 1000 yards or so. At least McNabb has a go-to guy. I do think we'll get Lelie or some other receiver to help the depth, but these receivers aren't that awful. They just aren't big names. The depth is the issue, not the talent.
They have plenty of depth. The problems is they're untested, (Avant) unproven (McCants & Gaffney) or flat-out suck (Greg Lewis).
The usual "pick up, then hope and pray" method of selecting receivers has gotten old, already. If they're going to run an offense predicated on the pass, then they need to quit farging around and get some proven talent at the positions.
I'm not saying that Reggie, Hank or Avant won't be great players. I'm hoping they will. But I'm just a fan and me "hoping" they get it done isn't the same thing as Andy & Heckert going out and doing whatever they need to do to get it done.
I'll agree with that. They don't have experienced depth.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:16:32 PM
The preseason has no relevance to how Reggie will do during the regular season. They are running a vanilla offense, and I doubt they are even running plays for Reggie. They need to see what so many other receivers can do to decide whether or not to pick another receiver up. Plus they just have so many guys fighting for jobs. Reggie Brown is the only one not fighting for a job, therefore they don't need to go to him. He'll get open during the season plenty.
You can hate on Reggie all you want, but you are basing it on nothing.
well said bunk!
since when does having a whole lot of trash = depth
Not well said at all. I'm basing my skepticism on history and what I saw last year and this pre-season.
You are basing your optimism on wishful thinking. No one else has a chance of being a #1 so you're hoping and praying that Brown can do it, but there is absolutely no evidence that he'll be able to.
I hope to god I'm worng. I hope he emerges as the best WCO WR in the history of the world. But if he gets more than 900 yards this year I will be stunned.
He was the best rookie WR in the NFL last year, and had the best rookie season for the Eagles maybe ever.
I don't know what you didn't like, but when he took over as a starter last year, I saw pro bowl ability and talent. I don't know what's not to like. He's fast, he's strong, he jumps high, and has great hands. I don't see how he can't be a pro bowl player for years to come.
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 18, 2006, 12:09:33 PM
So Reggie Brown hasn't been able to get open all preseason but he'll definitely get 70 catches and 1000 yards this year?
forget this preseason
i wanna know where it started and who started the reggie bandwagon from last year that led to the notion that he would be a productive wr this year much less a #1 guy...everyone bought into this crap and i just didnt and dont understand it
in reality he should be coming into this season as a promising #3 guy behind two quality nfl wr's and we all sit back and watch his development and hope that he shows the ability to one day take over one of the first two spots
instead the guy is a #1 wr and is supposed to be replacing arguably the best wr in the nfl
its outrageous
IGY, yo couldnt be more correct, and something Ive been pondering since the end of the season. all of a sudden you see a receiver excelling at a position with no Donovan McNabb, the team down by points in the 4th, defenses playing off the receiver in zone coverage with no respect for McMahon, and Brown is catching balls because hes the only one getting open--and all of a sudden hes our #1 guy? Im not buying it until he consistently gets open, multiple passes getting thrown his way, and Donovan having the confidence to go him in the tightest of situations.
To me, this is #1 by default with no "true basis" of establishing oneself as a legit #1. He did not prove he was a #1 just based off of a last year
number of wr's under reid with 70+ catches or 1000 yds not named terrell owens = zero
speaking of owens i was thinking last night how he and other people like randy moss as young receivers got to learn and play behind great wr's such as rice and carter....reggie brown gets to grow up with greg lewis and jabar gaffney
its like i said before its so frustratingly unfair that the coaching staff has put him in this position...its not where a second year second round wr should be
You are basing your optimism on wishful thinking. No one else has a chance of being a #1 so you're hoping and praying that Brown can do it, but there is absolutely no evidence that he'll be able to.
exactly...there is absolutely no evidence that reggie brown is ever going to be a #1 wr in this league much less this year....i like the kid....but come on lets be realistic
500 yards definitely equals probowl.
Two productive games definitely equals probowl
Are you guys so starved for a decent WR that the smallest glimmer of hope makes you think a player is a pro-bowler? Unreal.
There's no room for optimism in your mind, rjs.
You've made that clear in the past.
And basing your opinion on last year (with the legendary Mike McMahon at QB, no less) plus a couple of series during this preseason is retarded.
We have no idea how they're going to play. The difference is, some of us are willing to at least hold out a sliver hope for great things to happen while you've already taken a shovel to the team. I just don't understand that. I mean, if the outlook is so gloomy, then why bother watching at all?
Since when is Bunkley you guys?
He won't be a pro bowler this year, but I think next year he'll be a pro bowler for many years to come.
Again, he almost had 600 yards, and only started as a #1 for about half the season. He also had 4 TDs. So you figure if he starts as the #1 for the entire season he probably has close to 900 yards or more. You also have to factor in that he's going to be in his second year. He'll know the offense better, he's going to be with a better QB in McNabb, who's going to have a better offensive line blocking for him.
I don't get some people. Everyone says no receivers can walk into Philly and contribute their first year, and when one guy finally does, they don't get the credit.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 03:25:46 PM
Not well said at all. I'm basing my skepticism on history and what I saw last year and this pre-season.
You are basing your optimism on wishful thinking. No one else has a chance of being a #1 so you're hoping and praying that Brown can do it, but there is absolutely no evidence that he'll be able to.
I hope to god I'm worng. I hope he emerges as the best WCO WR in the history of the world. But if he gets more than 900 yards this year I will be stunned.
Listen to this man.
Bunkley78, et al, don't believe that anyone questioning whether or not Brown can be a solid number one in this league is hating on the dude, or thinks he is a bum. Brown has a lot of talent, and shows ability. The argument is that he hasn't done
anything to prove he is worthy of being a number one starting
this year. The guy had a fantastic rookie year, especially for a rookie in this system. However, he didn't have a the kind of year that would make a logical, football smart person say, "Hey, that guy is a certifiable number one at this stage in his career." Maybe (I think he has a good shot) Brown can develop into a big play, number one receiver, but anointing him a sure-fire number one after his one and only
above-average season, isn't a very good plan, and doesn't make much football sense.
Bunkley, your competely specualting these statements with no true evidence. your taking last season and automatically assuming he doubles his figues because Reid and Donovan claim him as the #1. show me consistency then I believe you
This offense is just good enough to get bailed out by the defense on a regular basis. One major injury to a WR or RB and probably not so much.
Is Brown a better #1 then Thrash?
I didn't say Brown is TO or Chad Johnson or Steve Smith. Even though I said I think he will be a pro bowler in the future, I still don't think he'll be on their level.
But there is a difference between a superstar #1 receiver, and a #1 receiver. Branch in New England is a #1 receiver. He's not a TO or a Chad Johnson, but he's still a #1 receiver.
I think last year Reggie proved he can be a #1. He didn't prove he's going to be a superstar, but he proved he has enough go-to ability for McNabb I think. I do think down the road Reggie will be a star though. Again, not of TO or Chad Johnson quality, but I do think he'll be an 80 catch 1100 yard guy.
If I'm only basing that on nothing but glimpses, then what is the point of even projecting?
Quote from: Phanatic on August 18, 2006, 03:38:53 PM
This offense is just good enough to get bailed out by the defense on a regular basis. One major injury to a WR or RB and probably not so much.
Is Brown a better #1 then Thrash?
who knows. surely not by the sights of this preseason. you trying to tell me that a second year WR is milking it in the preseason because hes sure to get open in the regular season? highly doubt it--and what your seeing so far is scary to make such a prediction
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 18, 2006, 03:33:07 PM
There's no room for optimism in your mind, rjs.
You've made that clear in the past.
That is simply not true. I'm not optimistic THIS YEAR for a plethora of reasons. Runningback durability and depth being one. An utter lack of talent and experience at wide receiver being another.
Quote
And basing your opinion on last year (with the legendary Mike McMahon at QB, no less) plus a couple of series during this preseason is retarded.
McMahon is part of the reason I'm not as optimistic about Brown. When McNabb was playing, Brown didn't get much opportunity and didn't do anything when he did have an opportunity. In case you haven't noticed, Mike McMahon and Donovan McNabb have slightly different velocities and styles. Who's to say that Brown will be able to even work effectively with McNabb. THERE'S NO EVIDENCE. But he's totally going to be great with no one to mentor him and the burden of being labeled the top receiver in an awful group. Totally.
Quote
We have no idea how they're going to play. The difference is, some of us are willing to at least hold out a sliver hope for great things to happen while you've already taken a shovel to the team. I just don't understand that. I mean, if the outlook is so gloomy, then why bother watching at all?
The fact that you are trying to justify 'holding out a sliver of hope' only proves further that I am right to be pessimistic.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:41:24 PM
I didn't say Brown is TO or Chad Johnson or Steve Smith. Even though I said I think he will be a pro bowler in the future, I still don't think he'll be on their level.
Backpedal much? Those guys are what a pro-bowl WR is. Stop inundating us with your idiocy.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:41:24 PM
I didn't say Brown is TO or Chad Johnson or Steve Smith. Even though I said I think he will be a pro bowler in the future, I still don't think he'll be on their level.
But there is a difference between a superstar #1 receiver, and a #1 receiver. Branch in New England is a #1 receiver. He's not a TO or a Chad Johnson, but he's still a #1 receiver.
I think last year Reggie proved he can be a #1. He didn't prove he's going to be a superstar, but he proved he has enough go-to ability for McNabb I think. I do think down the road Reggie will be a star though. Again, not of TO or Chad Johnson quality, but I do think he'll be an 80 catch 1100 yard guy.
If I'm only basing that on nothing but glimpses, then what is the point of even projecting?
because usually when you project such statements, its based on evidence of skill that he can actually attain those numbers. again--show signs of it NOW, than Im with you
Quote from: reese125 on August 18, 2006, 03:38:03 PM
Bunkley, your competely specualting these statements with no true evidence. your taking last season and automatically assuming he doubles his figues because Reid and Donovan claim him as the #1. show me consistency then I believe you
It's call projecting. Would you prefer me to wait until he has 75 catches and 1000 yards for me to say that he's capable of being that good? What is the point in that.
You have to project in this league. Fans project how players will turn out just like the team does. The team obviously thinks Reggie is ready to be the #1 by watching hours of film, and game time of him.
You may be right. Reggie Brown may not be a pro bowler, and may not be a good player down the road. I could be dead wrong. But just like I'm basing my projectings on no actual evidence, to say he won't be a great player is basing it on no evidence just the same. No one knows what Reggie Brown will be, so all we can do is project based on what we've seen.
the title of this thread is 'The Running Backs'
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:41:24 PM
I didn't say Brown is TO or Chad Johnson or Steve Smith. Even though I said I think he will be a pro bowler in the future, I still don't think he'll be on their level.
Backpedal much? Those guys are what a pro-bowl WR is. Stop inundating us with your idiocy.
Those are 100 catch 1500 yard guys. I said Reggie is going to be a 80 catch 1100 yard guy down the road. There is your difference.
ha...nice one RJS
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:47:17 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:41:24 PM
I didn't say Brown is TO or Chad Johnson or Steve Smith. Even though I said I think he will be a pro bowler in the future, I still don't think he'll be on their level.
Backpedal much? Those guys are what a pro-bowl WR is. Stop inundating us with your idiocy.
Those are 100 catch 1500 yard guys. I said Reggie is going to be a 80 catch 1100 yard guy down the road. There is your difference.
Stop.
There's no point in even arguing it anymore. Neither can prove their side with any facts. We'll have to see what Reggie does this season.
rj, ship me some god damn good boston bud will ya...im running low on shwag
There'd be very few threads around here if people were only going to use facts.
appreciate it
Quote from: reese125 on August 18, 2006, 03:56:11 PM
rj, ship me some god damn good boston bud will ya...im running low on shwag
No.
damn you--you selfish bastich
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:45:37 PM
Quote from: reese125 on August 18, 2006, 03:38:03 PM
Bunkley, your competely specualting these statements with no true evidence. your taking last season and automatically assuming he doubles his figues because Reid and Donovan claim him as the #1. show me consistency then I believe you
It's call projecting. Would you prefer me to wait until he has 75 catches and 1000 yards for me to say that he's capable of being that good? What is the point in that.
You have to project in this league. Fans project how players will turn out just like the team does. The team obviously thinks Reggie is ready to be the #1 by watching hours of film, and game time of him.
You may be right. Reggie Brown may not be a pro bowler, and may not be a good player down the road. I could be dead wrong. But just like I'm basing my projectings on no actual evidence, to say he won't be a great player is basing it on no evidence just the same. No one knows what Reggie Brown will be, so all we can do is project based on what we've seen.
Nice projectings.
There is evidence to say he won't turn into a "Pro Bowl" caliber wide receiver. Odds, for one. I haven't seen anyone say they think Brown will be a "bust" or "may not be a good player". Some people just question if he is a number one. Next point: All we can do is project on what we've seen? What have we seen? Last year, we saw him do as well, slightly better even, than the guys drafted ahead of him (Matt Jones, Braylon Edwards, Troy Williamson, etc.). What have we seen since last season? He has done well in camps. He has done ZERO in the preseason games. Does that in anyway shape or form merit a projection as a number one receiver? Certainly not. Let's see what he does this year with McNabb and number one DBs in his face. Then maybe later your unfounded projectings will look like prophecy, although everyone present on this board will know you were taking a shot in the dark.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:28:44 PM
He was the best rookie WR in the NFL last year, and had the best rookie season for the Eagles maybe ever.
I don't know what you didn't like, but when he took over as a starter last year, I saw pro bowl ability and talent. I don't know what's not to like. He's fast, he's strong, he jumps high, and has great hands. I don't see how he can't be a pro bowl player for years to come.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:41:24 PM
I didn't say Brown is TO or Chad Johnson or Steve Smith. Even though I said I think he will be a pro bowler in the future, I still don't think he'll be on their level.
Awesome.
My projections are unfounded yet you lose faith in a guy because of a few preseason games?
They mean absolutely nothing, and have absolutely no relevance to what kind of player he'll be this year.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on August 18, 2006, 04:03:25 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:28:44 PM
He was the best rookie WR in the NFL last year, and had the best rookie season for the Eagles maybe ever.
I don't know what you didn't like, but when he took over as a starter last year, I saw pro bowl ability and talent. I don't know what's not to like. He's fast, he's strong, he jumps high, and has great hands. I don't see how he can't be a pro bowl player for years to come.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 03:41:24 PM
I didn't say Brown is TO or Chad Johnson or Steve Smith. Even though I said I think he will be a pro bowler in the future, I still don't think he'll be on their level.
Awesome.
Something wrong with what I said? Just because you are a pro bowler, it doesn't mean you are TO or Chad Johnson. There are the Chris Chambers of the world who make the pro bowl, but aren't even close to TO or Chad Johnson's level.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 04:03:32 PM
My projections are unfounded yet you lose faith in a guy because of a few preseason games?
They mean absolutely nothing, and have absolutely no relevance to what kind of player he'll be this year.
Okay. Look at it this way. Reggie outperformed the guys in his draft class, but not by a whole lot. Of the guys taken ahead of him, NONE were featured in the offense like a number one. So using your logic for predicting number one, "Pro Bowl" caliber wide recievers, Matt Jones, Troy Williamson, Mark Clayton, and Braylon Edwards, are "Pro Bowl" bound, and are definately number one guys? Let's add the Bengals' Chris Henry who caught two more TD's than Brown. He is a lock too I suppose.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 04:09:25 PM
Something wrong with what I said? Just because you are a pro bowler, it doesn't mean you are TO or Chad Johnson. There are the Chris Chambers of the world who make the pro bowl, but aren't even close to TO or Chad Johnson's level.
So help me understand. Brown <T.O. or Chad Johnson, but Brown >/= Chambers?
your beating a dead mule at this point phanin....and keep in mind who your debating against
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on August 18, 2006, 04:12:02 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 04:03:32 PM
My projections are unfounded yet you lose faith in a guy because of a few preseason games?
They mean absolutely nothing, and have absolutely no relevance to what kind of player he'll be this year.
Okay. Look at it this way. Reggie outperformed the guys in his draft class, but not by a whole lot. Of the guys taken ahead of him, NONE were featured in the offense like a number one. So using your logic for predicting number one, "Pro Bowl" caliber wide recievers, Matt Jones, Troy Williamson, Mark Clayton, and Braylon Edwards, are "Pro Bowl" bound, and are definately number one guys? Let's add the Bengals' Chris Henry who caught two more TD's than Brown. He is a lock too I suppose.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 04:09:25 PM
Something wrong with what I said? Just because you are a pro bowler, it doesn't mean you are TO or Chad Johnson. There are the Chris Chambers of the world who make the pro bowl, but aren't even close to TO or Chad Johnson's level.
So help me understand. Brown <T.O. or Chad Johnson, but Brown >/= Chambers?
Braylon was a #1 until he got hurt. I think he's going to be a great receiver as well. Clayton was the #2 all year for Baltimore. Reggie was the #3 for half the season and the #1 for the other half.
and no, Brown isn't as good as Chambers now, but I think he'll be a better receiver than Chambers in a couple of years if not next year.
while im going to hold out till i see what reggie does in his first full season as the eagles #1 b4 making any projectios, positive or negative, i have a lot more faith in reggie brown than i ever did in thrash. we have nothing but last season to base our projections of reggie brown on. now u can take last yr 2 ways...he only did good cause teams knew we sucked and played half assed or when given the chance playing with a horrible qb he made something and showed glimpses of what he can do as a starter with a 10x better qb.
ill agree with bunkley here in that basing it off of last yr i think he will be fine and im more concerned more about the other WRs. im more worried about baskett. i always thought even with brown we needed someone else. walker, lelie, moulds, porter....someone. but we have baskett. one WR im willing to wait and see on but 2? i thought gaffney might be servicable but he doesnt seem to be doing anything.
The WR's are what they are. It would be nice to add a Lelie or Stallworth to the mix, but I think this team is OK at WR... well, that is if you compare it to the RB situation.
Westbrook goes down... we're farged. PERIOD.
Definitely. Westbrook isn't a top 5 back, but you can argue Westbrook is more valuable to the Eagles than Tomlinson, Portis, Alexander and Larry Johnson is to their respective teams. Simply because the Eagles use Westbrook for so many things.
If he gets hurt this offense is absolutely farged. I don't care if we acquire a receiver or not, it'll still be farged even with Lelie.
You're absolutely right, except for the part about him being more valuable than Tomlinson, Alexander, and Larry Johnson to their respective teams. Portis? Maybe.
Probably not Tomlinson, but I think with Alexander, and Portis he is. The Seahawks have a deeper receiving corps now, and even with Hutchinson gone, still probably have the best offensive line in football. I think they could be successful plugging in guys at RB, and they would still have a good passing attack.
I'm not sure about Larry Johnson. I think he'll suffer a bit with Roaf retiring, Welbourn retiring, and losing Tony Richardson. They also have Bennett who they picked up who can fill in. They've always had a great passing attack.
But, anyway, the point is as you agreed, that Westbrook is so important to this team that he simply can't go down for any extended periods of time.
Don't worry... Gaffney ready to challenge (http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/homeNewsDetail.jsp?id=53671)
Yay.
Ugh.
But, dude... he's ready. To challenge the likes of Hank Baskett, Jason Avant, and Darnerien McCants for playing time.
OK, in that case...
Ugh.
If all of you killed each other, that would be exceedingly cool.
I mean , yeah, I'd miss you and stuff, but still... bang!
All sorts of fun.
I'm too busy getting exciting about Jabar Gaffney's imminent challenge for playing time.
i think it's safe to say that this team has the worst rb/wr corps in the division. the qb will have to carry the offense this year & it will be just like the pre-TO eagles where the rb's & te lead the team in receptions and the wr's will struggle to get open. 1 injury to westbrook and the offense is screwed.
but let's all be optimistic!
Optimism for the sake of optimism is fine to me. But when people go to these ridiculous lengths to justify it and explain it away like there's nothing to worry about it drives me up a farging wall.
Quote from: hunt on August 19, 2006, 09:52:52 AM
i think it's safe to say that this team has the worst rb/wr corps in the division. the qb will have to carry the offense this year & it will be just like the pre-TO eagles where the rb's & te lead the team in receptions and the wr's will struggle to get open. 1 injury to westbrook and the offense is screwed.
but let's all be optimistic!
or lets go your way and figure the season is already tanked. ::)
Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 19, 2006, 02:18:15 PM
Quote from: hunt on August 19, 2006, 09:52:52 AM
i think it's safe to say that this team has the worst rb/wr corps in the division. the qb will have to carry the offense this year & it will be just like the pre-TO eagles where the rb's & te lead the team in receptions and the wr's will struggle to get open. 1 injury to westbrook and the offense is screwed.
but let's all be optimistic!
or lets go your way and figure the season is already tanked. ::)
I'll be optimistic and bank on McNabb getting us in the playoffs. Even with the receivers we have, they are better than what we had in '01 to '03', and we were in the playoffs then.
The NFC is so much better than they were back then - Especially the East and South which comprise half of our games this year. Also, I think a lot of the teams have figured our schemes out and are able to establish better game plans for us.
The bottom line is, you cannot compare this year with those years. The scenery has definately changed.
Quote from: sallad selgae on August 19, 2006, 02:48:42 PM
The NFC is so much better than they were back then - Especially the East and South which comprise half of our games this year. Also, I think a lot of the teams have figured our schemes out and are able to establish better game plans for us.
The bottom line is, you cannot compare this year with those years. The scenery has definately changed.
Seriously. Let's stop all of this nonsense about how these receivers are better than 2003 so the team will make the playoffs. 6 games that year were against AWFUL NFC East competition. 4 or 5 free wins guaranteed. That just isn't the case anymore.
a couple of key injuries on those squads and we stay healthy (knock on wood)--we will be in the playoffs
Portis might have trouble all year, Im waiting for Strahans moment, Owens hamstring to burst, Tiki going down, Brunell c-ya by the 12th and Sean Taylor having sex with an undercover cop--gets suspended.
If all that happens their straight
You don't need great receivers to win in this league. Sure it would be nice to have great receivers, but it's not a necessity to go deep into the playoffs. If Westbrook stays healthy, this team will move the ball. I don't care how the receivers play. It's an if though, so obviously we all better hope Westbrook stays healthy.
The defense is the key to the season though. We'll have some games here and there where we'll get in the upper 30's and maybe even a game or so in the 40's, but for the most part, we'll probably be scoring in the 20's each game. As long as the defensive line plays to it's potential, we should be holding teams under 20 points almost every week, so we should be ok.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 19, 2006, 03:36:11 PM
Quote from: sallad selgae on August 19, 2006, 02:48:42 PM
The NFC is so much better than they were back then - Especially the East and South which comprise half of our games this year. Also, I think a lot of the teams have figured our schemes out and are able
to establish better game plans for us.
The bottom line is, you cannot compare this year with those years. The scenery has definately changed.
Seriously. Let's stop all of this nonsense about how these receivers are better than 2003 so the team will make the playoffs. 6 games that year were against AWFUL NFC East competition. 4 or 5 free wins guaranteed. That just isn't the case anymore.
I knew someone would come up with the, "you can't compare this to that" bullcrap.
All I know is that, for my money, Baskett, LJ, and Brown are already better than Thrash and Pinkston. LJ looks real good to me this pre-season. Our passing game, although minus Mr. Allworld TO, should still be better than those past years.
But, I guess that the Skins, Cowboys, and Giants are so friggen' good now that it doesn't matter, they won't do shtein.
My main reason for thinking it will be better us that McNabb is healthy, something some people around here forget when looking at last season. Let's see what Brown and co. can do with a bonafide pro-bowler passing to them.
Please God, get this season here quick. Let all these debates be put to rest then.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 19, 2006, 06:33:54 PM
The defense is the key to the season though. We'll have some games here and there where we'll get in the upper 30's and maybe even a game or so in the 40's, but for the most part, we'll probably be scoring in the 20's each game. As long as the defensive line plays to it's potential, we should be holding teams under 20 points almost every week, so we should be ok.
I agree 100% with that. I don't know the number, but the starters haven't had many pts. put up against them.
3 points so far.
With a full 4 quarters, Ogden playing, and an actual gameplan, McNair and the Ravens would have nickel and dimed the defense to death.
Quote from: General_Failure on August 19, 2006, 09:42:46 PM
With a full 4 quarters, Ogden playing, and an actual gameplan, McNair and the Ravens would have nickel and dimed the defense to death.
I don't know about that, but I will say this, with the way the Ravens moved the ball, I'm glad we don't have to play them this year. That Mussa Smith looks to be lightning fast. They have the best qb they've ever had since the franchise moved to Baltimore. They look like they could give the Steelers a run for their money.
Quote from: General_Failure on August 19, 2006, 09:42:46 PM
With a full 4 quarters, Ogden playing, and an actual gameplan, McNair and the Ravens would have nickel and dimed the defense to death.
Yeah, but with a full 4 quarters and a gameplan... Lito and Sheldon would have been pressing the WR's and jumping some of those slant routes, not giving up all that underneath stuff.
Even as it was, the defense was still getting hits on McNair. Some or many of those would have turned into sacks had we taken away or knocked off the timing of some of those slants.
Quote from: EagleFeva on August 19, 2006, 10:17:18 PM
Quote from: General_Failure on August 19, 2006, 09:42:46 PM
With a full 4 quarters, Ogden playing, and an actual gameplan, McNair and the Ravens would have nickel and dimed the defense to death.
Yeah, but with a full 4 quarters and a gameplan... Lito and Sheldon would have been pressing the WR's and jumping some of those slant routes, not giving up all that underneath stuff.
Even as it was, the defense was still getting hits on McNair. Some or many of those would have turned into sacks had we taken away or knocked off the timing of some of those slants.
Their runningbacks were tearing the defense apart, and Ogden wasn't in. I really don't think it's going to matter what the corners do to the receivers, a good TE is going to be open a lot against these linebackers.
The only reason Baskett and Brown are automatically better than Pinkston and Thrash is because it would be nearly impossible to replicate that extreme amount of suck. I'm excited about what I saw from Brown last year and I'm hoping he builds on top of that this year. But lets not kid ourselves here, he's a 2nd year player who put up good numbers on a crappy team. And I've quickly become a fan of Baskett but he's an undrafted rookie who's currently slated to be the #2 receiver on this team.
No one, and I mean no one, grew more sick of Reid running Johnson, Small, Thrash and Pinkston out on the field week after week and year after year. But at the same time, just because we've got all new recievers does not automatically mean the passing game is going to tremendously be improved. There are a lot of questions that need to be answered with this new group of recievers. They could be great or they could suck. Only time will tell. But to be overly excited about them simply because they aren't Thrash or Pinkston is kind of rediculous.
Quote from: General_Failure on August 19, 2006, 10:27:49 PM
Quote from: EagleFeva on August 19, 2006, 10:17:18 PM
Quote from: General_Failure on August 19, 2006, 09:42:46 PM
With a full 4 quarters, Ogden playing, and an actual gameplan, McNair and the Ravens would have nickel and dimed the defense to death.
Yeah, but with a full 4 quarters and a gameplan... Lito and Sheldon would have been pressing the WR's and jumping some of those slant routes, not giving up all that underneath stuff.
Even as it was, the defense was still getting hits on McNair. Some or many of those would have turned into sacks had we taken away or knocked off the timing of some of those slants.
Their runningbacks were tearing the defense apart, and Ogden wasn't in. I really don't think it's going to matter what the corners do to the receivers, a good TE is going to be open a lot against these linebackers.
Well... I guess it's a good thing we don't play any good TE's this year then, huh? :paranoid
Jamal Lewis had 9 carries for 27 yds.
Musa Smith had 3 carries for 12 yds (against the 1st team).
Mike Anderson had 3 carries for 8 yards.
Where'd they tear us apart? I don't dispute that Ogden probably could have improved things for them, but damn... we didn't really throw anything at them defensively other than a whole lot of vanilla either.
J.Lewis left end to BLT 26 for 8 yards (S.Brown).
(Shotgun) Mu.Smith up the middle to BLT 40 for 10 yards (J.Trotter, J.Hanson).
Mu.Smith left tackle for 43 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
J.Lewis left guard to PHI 30 for 5 yards (M.Lewis, J.Trotter).
M.Anderson left guard to PHI 15 for 5 yards (T.Cole, M.Lewis).
P.Daniels right end to PHI 29 for 10 yards (M.Ware).
C.Ross right tackle to BLT 45 for 10 yards (D.Strickland).
Okay, tearing them apart may be a stretch, especially if you consider the number of poor runs they had.
As bad as the Eagles were last year, weren't they in a position to win almost every NFC east matchup last year, except maybe the one Dallas one. In fact, in atleast one of those games, the Dallas one, they had the game wrapped up, and blew it. Also, against Washington, our backups almost won. So really, I'm not too intimidated by the vastly improved NFC East. Bledsoe, Eli, and Brunnell don't send shivers down my spine.
Is the NFC East really going to be soooooooo great again? Oh my, the taterskins got Antwaan Randle El and his 1 TD last year! Holy shtein, they got Brandon Lloyd and his inconsistent ass. They also have no pass rush. Their defense gets pressure by relying on the blitz - specifically the DB's blitzing. Gregg Williams loves to do that. And now Shawn Springs is out with an injury that is similar to Dirk's and Donovan's. They had to trade for Mike f'ing Rumph. And will Clinton Portis' shoulder be right this year?
The Giants? Talk to me when they have some DTs who can play.
The Cowboys...just because they got TO? When in Julis Jones going to be a player? Let's see if that OL can keep Bledsoe clean. Or is Parcells really thinking about starting Romo.
Every team in this division has questions - including the Eagles. So how about we wait and see how it plays out?
And another thing - every pre-season we see the Eagles like this. They run basic ass schemes. Let's see what they do when they gameplan.
Look, I'm not saying the Birds are without questions. And I'm not staking my spot out on Broad St. yet either.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 19, 2006, 02:18:15 PM
Quote from: hunt on August 19, 2006, 09:52:52 AM
i think it's safe to say that this team has the worst rb/wr corps in the division. the qb will have to carry the offense this year & it will be just like the pre-TO eagles where the rb's & te lead the team in receptions and the wr's will struggle to get open. 1 injury to westbrook and the offense is screwed.
but let's all be optimistic!
or lets go your way and figure the season is already tanked. ::)
when did i say that?
oh yeah...i didn't. ::)
i'm just saying that this team does not appear have enough talent at rb & wr to contend for the super bowl. those are glaring weakness they failed to address in the offseason. it reminds me of the pre-TO eagles teams that couldn't mount much of an offense against teams with good secondaries that put pressure on #5.
i hope reggie brown becomes the next mike quick & i hope westbrook stays healthy all season.
but that's all it is....hope.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on August 20, 2006, 01:59:04 AM
Is the NFC East really going to be soooooooo great again? Oh my, the taterskins got Antwaan Randle El and his 1 TD last year! Holy shtein, they got Brandon Lloyd and his inconsistent ass. They also have no pass rush. Their defense gets pressure by relying on the blitz - specifically the DB's blitzing. Gregg Williams loves to do that. And now Shawn Springs is out with an injury that is similar to Dirk's and Donovan's. They had to trade for Mike f'ing Rumph. And will Clinton Portis' shoulder be right this year?
Laughable. They got Rumph for less than nothing. They over paid for two WRs, yes, but they are better WRs than they had last year, not to mention a better return man. They improved. Not by a ton, but they improved. Portis is a legit issue, but everything else you just wrote are not valid points.
Quote
The Giants? Talk to me when they have some DTs who can play.
The Eagles don't have RBs, WRs or LBs who can play.
Quote
The Cowboys...just because they got TO? When in Julis Jones going to be a player? Let's see if that OL can keep Bledsoe clean. Or is Parcells really thinking about starting Romo.
Ridiculous. If that's all you can come up with about the Cowboys you must be more scared of them than I am.
Quote
Every team in this division has questions - including the Eagles. So how about we wait and see how it plays out?
And another thing - every pre-season we see the Eagles like this. They run basic ass schemes. Let's see what they do when they gameplan.
Look, I'm not saying the Birds are without questions. And I'm not staking my spot out on Broad St. yet either.
Finally, something reasonable. Andy Reid doesn't put any value on the outcome of preseason games. Never has. All of this means nothing. But the first teamers could have not played a single down and we would all still know that their WRs, RBs and LBs are HUGE question marks. This doesn't have anything to do with it being pre-season...
Quote from: hunt on August 20, 2006, 09:04:01 AM
it reminds me of the pre-TO eagles teams that couldn't mount much of an offense against teams with good secondaries that put pressure on #5.
I assume you mean "teams who have good secondaries and who are able to put pressure on #5" (as opposed to secondaries who can put pressure on the QB)
Playing devil's advocate for a second, couldn't AR claim that he doesn't have to worry about teams getting pressure since they did such a great job upgrading the line? Could the team get by with average WR's if the QB has enough time?
My opinion is that to be successful, a team needs 2 players that the other team needs to game plan against. I think the Eagles believe that they have that with Westbrook & LJ, so they don't need a superstar WR.
Quote from: Cerevant on August 20, 2006, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: hunt on August 20, 2006, 09:04:01 AM
it reminds me of the pre-TO eagles teams that couldn't mount much of an offense against teams with good secondaries that put pressure on #5.
I assume you mean "teams who have good secondaries and who are able to put pressure on #5" (as opposed to secondaries who can put pressure on the QB)
Playing devil's advocate for a second, couldn't AR claim that he doesn't have to worry about teams getting pressure since they did such a great job upgrading the line? Could the team get by with average WR's if the QB has enough time?
My opinion is that to be successful, a team needs 2 players that the other team needs to game plan against. I think the Eagles believe that they have that with Westbrook & LJ, so they don't need a superstar WR.
I can buy into that concept except for the fact that the last team to win a Super Bowl with non WR as the leading reciever was the Ravens when Shannon Sharpe was their best pass catcher. They also had a bruising running back in Lewis and an absolutely dominating defense. The Eagles don't have a defense like the Ravens did and they definately don't have a bruising runningback like Lewis.
So if the Eagles are determined to go into every season without a legitimate #1 reciever then I don't understand why they don't invest that money into the RB/LB positions.
Also, this is something that I'm absolutely dumbfounded by . Reid runs the WCO. Always has, always will. So why, if he is so stuck on running an offense that is known for short underneath routes, does he have such a hard time identifying recievers who are strong enough to get off the line so as not to disrupt the timing of those routes? Why does he have such a hard time identifying recievers who are big enough to catch the ball across the middle? Why does he have such a hard time identifying receivers who have hands to actually catch the ball?
With the exception of TO, none of the Eagles starting recievers over the last few years have fit the mold of a WCO reciever.
Quote from: Cerevant on August 20, 2006, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: hunt on August 20, 2006, 09:04:01 AM
it reminds me of the pre-TO eagles teams that couldn't mount much of an offense against teams with good secondaries that put pressure on #5.
I assume you mean "teams who have good secondaries and who are able to put pressure on #5" (as opposed to secondaries who can put pressure on the QB)
Playing devil's advocate for a second, couldn't AR claim that he doesn't have to worry about teams getting pressure since they did such a great job upgrading the line? Could the team get by with average WR's if the QB has enough time?
ar can claim whatever he wants but if the eagles wr's can't get open against single coverage, expect mcnabb to get blitzed all game long.
the D is improved but not to the point where it can carry the entire team....the offense will need to put up points and that's not easy when your top 2 receiving threats are a rb & a te and you don't have a power running attack. they will struggle to score against good defenses.
Quote from: hunt on August 20, 2006, 01:11:26 PM
ar can claim whatever he wants but if the eagles wr's can't get open against single coverage, expect mcnabb to get blitzed all game long.
1) Do the WRs need to beat single coverage if Westbrook and/or LJ get open?
2) Can the Eagles be beaten by the blitz with an improved offensive line & a renewed McNabb?
Quote from: Cerevant on August 20, 2006, 02:03:21 PM
Quote from: hunt on August 20, 2006, 01:11:26 PM
ar can claim whatever he wants but if the eagles wr's can't get open against single coverage, expect mcnabb to get blitzed all game long.
1) Do the WRs need to beat single coverage if Westbrook and/or LJ get open?
2) Can the Eagles be beaten by the blitz with an improved offensive line & a renewed McNabb?
Um....yeah, it'd be nice.
Quote from: Cerevant on August 20, 2006, 02:03:21 PM
1) Do the WRs need to beat single coverage if Westbrook and/or LJ get open?
Uhhhhhhhh, anyone else care to take this one? You do realize that if the defense blitzes, LJ and (insert runningback here) will be called on to block and provide a little extra protection. And even if the defense isn't blitzing, if you don't have receivers that can beat SINGLE coverage then I'd say you've got a major problem.
Quote2) Can the Eagles be beaten by the blitz with an improved offensive line & a renewed McNabb?
Yes. The Eagles have had one of the more dominating lines in terms of pass protection over the last 4 or 5 years (last year excluded) and they were still beaten by the blitz.....badly......especially in the playoffs.
Remember the start to the 2003 season? The 0-2 start? The Bucs and Pats blitzed relentlessly agianst the Eagles and as a result, McNabb spent more time on his back that hbionic's mom on dollar draft night.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on August 20, 2006, 02:15:53 PM
Quote from: Cerevant on August 20, 2006, 02:03:21 PM
1) Do the WRs need to beat single coverage if Westbrook and/or LJ get open?
You do realize that if the defense blitzes, LJ and (insert runningback here) will be called on to block and provide a little extra protection. And even if the defense isn't blitzing, if you don't have receivers that can beat SINGLE coverage then I'd say you've got a major problem.
I wasn't talking about blitzing. If on a given play, there is one or two players open, does it matter what position they play?
Also, don't forget the two tight-end set we keep hearing about.
Quote
Quote2) Can the Eagles be beaten by the blitz with an improved offensive line & a renewed McNabb?
Yes. The Eagles have had one of the more dominating lines in terms of pass protection over the last 4 or 5 years (last year excluded) and they were still beaten by the blitz.....badly......especially in the playoffs.
But this line is "better". Does it make a difference? *shrug*
QuoteRemember the start to the 2003 season? The 0-2 start? The Bucs and Pats blitzed relentlessly agianst the Eagles and as a result, McNabb spent more time on his back that hbionic's mom on dollar draft night.
Philly was #5 in sacks given up that year. Not what I'd call a good o-line.
I agree that they are 1 wr short from Andy's offense working properly. Oddly enough, that missing WR is pinky - the deep threat. A good reason to not give up on the possibility of a Lelie trade.
Quote
Laughable. They got Rumph for less than nothing. They over paid for two WRs, yes, but they are better WRs than they had last year, not to mention a better return man. They improved. Not by a ton, but they improved. Portis is a legit issue, but everything else you just wrote are not valid points.
Rumph is terrible. Todd could get 100 yards receiving on him with 2 bad achilles. I'll agree they improved. Still nothing to worry about though. Their defense is pretty solid, but their offense doesn't scare me one bit.
Quote
The Eagles don't have RBs, WRs or LBs who can play.
Westbrook and Moats can play. Reggie Brown can play. Trotter can play. No team is perfect from top to bottom at every position. Okay, the Eagles have no 3rd RB or their SAM LB kinda sucks, but plenty of teams aren't great from top to bottom. Every team has a weakness somewhere.
Quote
Ridiculous. If that's all you can come up with about the Cowboys you must be more scared of them than I am.
No QB, RBs worse than ours, average offensive line, overrated DTs, bad cover secondary, Parcells can't coach anymore.
They have bad coverage safeties, but they have good corners. Newman, Glenn, Henry..
Newman, Glenn and Henry are average at best. Newman is nothing but a name. He has been a disappointment so far for Dallas.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 20, 2006, 12:35:47 PM
Laughable. They got Rumph for less than nothing. They over paid for two WRs, yes, but they are better WRs than they had last year, not to mention a better return man. They improved. Not by a ton, but they improved. Portis is a legit issue, but everything else you just wrote are not valid points.
Rumph is less than nothing too. You make it sound like they'll get any benefit at all from him. He'll be a liability... and what's worse is that they're gonna have to rely on him since Springs, their best corner, is gonna be hobbled pretty much all year. It's all good though since Archuleta will be there to help out in coverage, right? That's a huge chink in that defensive armor since their pass rush is questionable. Rumph is gonna be picked on all year.
Quote
The Eagles don't have RBs, WRs or LBs who can play.
Our interior line versus the Giants DT's... Westbrook, Moats and LJ forcing their LB's into coverage mismatches... and if you're convinced about Madison, Demps and McQuarters securing their secondary... then more power to you. I think we can score on that D.
Quote
Ridiculous. If that's all you can come up with about the Cowboys you must be more scared of them than I am.
If you don't consider the O-line of the Cowboys a question mark on so many levels, then you haven't been paying attention. Not only do they stink at run blocking for Jones... but obviously Bledsoe is a statue that starts throwing off his back foot after he's been knocked around a few times, which = inaccuracy and INT's. I don't even have to get into how that effects things with the ticking time bomb on top of everything else. They've already got health questions too considering Flozell's knee still isn't all the way back yet either. Every offense is made or broken by the offensive line. The Cowboys are no different.
Quote
Finally, something reasonable. Andy Reid doesn't put any value on the outcome of preseason games. Never has. All of this means nothing. But the first teamers could have not played a single down and we would all still know that their WRs, RBs and LBs are HUGE question marks. This doesn't have anything to do with it being pre-season...
No one ever said that the Eagles don't have question marks. They do. Where you go wrong IMO is that you build up the other teams in the East as some kind of invulnerable powerhouses that the Eagles can only hope to be able to compete with. That ain't the case. They've got issues for us to exploit... just like we have some for them to exploit. That's football. Who's to say that these teams are even gonna be as good as they were last year? None of the teams in the East return a team that could touch what we returned from 2004 and look how we ended up. Who's to say the same can't happen to any of them? Who says Brunell throws for 23 more TD's? Who says that Tiki doesn't start to slow down? That TO doesn't blow up from the start? That any of them stay as healthy as they did last year? All that matters for them too.
The other teams in the east are not invulnerable powerhouses. The very notion of that is retarded. The Skins are going to have trouble scoring. The Giants defense is weak. The Cowboys have less question marks than the other two but they will need to protect Bledsoe in order to move the ball.
My point is that all three are dangerous for different reasons (Skins defense, no matter what you think of Rumph who should only be their nickle if anything and Archuletta, will be very difficult to score on. The Giants' offense should be silly good and they can get after the QB on D. Dallas' offense can be scary good and their defense is young and talented and well coached.) and the days of this team cruising through the division are gone.
Why are we even talking about Rumph anyway? The dude sucks. But he isn't going to be asked to do much because that's not the way Williams' defense works. That team's weakness is offense and they improved. Period.
You can come up with little holes in any team. When the 'little' hole on a team are an utter lack of talent at WR and an utter inability to run for tough yards by the RBs, the hole does look so little any more.
Archuleta is a worse cover safety than Roy Williams.
WHAT IS YOUR POINT?!
Jesus, I can point to a lot of individual players on the taterskins defense that wouldn't set the world on fire by themselves. Did that make one iota of difference last year? No. Their defense is sick. Williams is easily the best defensive coach in the NFL because he takes parts that are useless on their own and turns them into a scary unit. Stop trying to convince yourself that their defense will be anything other than top flight because it just isn't true.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 20, 2006, 05:14:29 PM
The other teams in the east are not ivulnerable powerhouses. The very notion of that is retarded.
You get my point then. Like I said, people around here act like we've got no shot when it comes to competing against the rest of the East.
We don't have to "cruise" through the division to win it. Like I said before, the only year we cruised to a division title was '04. This year, we are just as capable of sweeping any team in the division as we are of getting swept.
I'm just saying that when you said Archuleta would be tough to score on, that I disagree with that.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 20, 2006, 05:30:09 PM
I'm just saying that when you said Archuleta would be tough to score on, that I disagree with that.
I said their defense would be tough to score on you illiterate twit.
I misread, my fault.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 20, 2006, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 20, 2006, 05:30:09 PM
I'm just saying that when you said Archuleta would be tough to score on, that I disagree with that.
I said their defense would be tough to score on you illiterate twit.
If Portis' shoulder ain't right... it'll have to be.
Nice use of twit, btw.
But when you break down the NFC East, I think you need to look at match-ups. The Eagles d-line vs the offensive lines in the division. Also factory in QB mobility, and the Eagles offensive line vs the other team's defensive lines. Then you look at the receivers around the division vs the Eagles' secondary, and vice versa.
The taterskins are the only opponent with a strong secondary in the division(if Springs is healthy), but they don't have a very good defensive line. So I think we can run the ball on them and work the play action. I think our receivers can get open against the Giants and Cowboys.
I think the Eagles have pretty favorable match-ups in most departments, except for one. I don't like our LB situation against the TEs in this division. Cooley is very good and underrated, and both Witten and Shockey are pro bowlers.
The Skins were the 6th ranked passing defense and 7th ranked rushing defense in the NFC and the 9th ranked overall defense in the NFL last year in both points and yards allowed. That was all done without much 'name' talent on that side of the ball. To think that the Eagles have any sort of advantage against them, in any way, is foolish. They are one of the best defenses in the NFC and in the upper third of the entire league. Our offense relies on complete unknowns at WR and a RB group that can't run up the gut or stay healthy.
Stop arguing that the Skins defense is somehow at a disadvantage to the Eagles offense. It's farging retarded. The Eagles will have to win on defense against the Skins (which should be VERY doable) if they want to beat them.
The Eagles had a very successful offensive game against the Skins last year in Philly. I'm going to disagree with you on that. The Skins defense is good, but IMO, overrated. It is not a top 3 defense in the NFC, despite what the stats say.
The defense can be had. The Eagles did it last year without Westbrook, and without McNabb.
farging crackheads. All of you.
All I know is that, for my money, Baskett, LJ, and Brown are already better than Thrash and Pinkston. LJ looks real good to me this pre-season
how is baskett better than anyone?....if the eagles dont trade for him most likely hes not even in the league this year
pinkston not hurt = brown right now if not beter than
lj>chad lewis by a little bit
so if thats 'all you know' and it gives you the warm and fuzzies inside about this season then more power to you...imo tho its disgraceful for a non rebuilding team to have that set of receiving options
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 20, 2006, 04:14:30 PM
Newman, Glenn and Henry are average at best. Newman is nothing but a name. He has been a disappointment so far for Dallas.
You mean the Newman that allowed
ZERO touchdowns last year? I'm not a fan of his or any Cowboys player (obviously) but you cant deny the facts.
Pinkston healthy is NOT better than Brown. Brown has better hands, is stronger, jumps higher, can actually go over the middle.
LJ is a lot better than Chad as well. Chad of the last 3 years anyway. Maybe not the Chad back in 2000/2001.
Quote from: Dillen37 on August 20, 2006, 06:06:35 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 20, 2006, 04:14:30 PM
Newman, Glenn and Henry are average at best. Newman is nothing but a name. He has been a disappointment so far for Dallas.
You mean the Newman that allowed ZERO touchdowns last year? I'm not a fan of his or any Cowboys player (obviously) but you cant deny the facts.
I'm not adding anything to this particular discussion. Just wanted to help you out with that bold feature there.
Ha, I accidently hit bold twice and then deleted the last two, I didnt realize it would set up like that.
[b][b][/b][/b]
Pinkston healthy is NOT better than Brown. Brown has better hands, is stronger, jumps higher, can actually go over the middle.
until reggie puts up some of the numbers pinky has in his career then yes pinky is better...could/should and do i think reggie will?....yes....but until he does hes not better than pinky
Quote from: rjs246 on August 19, 2006, 02:01:34 PM
Optimism for the sake of optimism is fine to me. But when people go to these ridiculous lengths to justify it and explain it away like there's nothing to worry about it drives me up a farging wall.
Why?
(http://www-personal.umich.edu/~rorder/mindy.gif)
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 20, 2006, 06:32:42 PM
Pinkston healthy is NOT better than Brown. Brown has better hands, is stronger, jumps higher, can actually go over the middle.
until reggie puts up some of the numbers pinky has in his career then yes pinky is better...could/should and do i think reggie will?....yes....but until he does hes not better than pinky
Are you talking about individual years or over the span of a few? Do you mean overall receiving yards or average yd/catch? I'm not on the Reggie train yet, but he already has put comparable numbers to Pinky's stats in 2001 & 2003, even though Brown played only 11 games last year:
Pinkston Stats (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187621)
Brown Stats (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/407234)
i wanna see reggie as a #1 wr in meaningful games produce on a regular basis.....i dont have much question in my mind that hes going to be better than pinky.....how could he not be...but to say that this current wr corps is better than thrash pinky et al is a little premature imo...and to say it as a way of defending the position if ridiculous...they could be better and still be horrible....
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 20, 2006, 09:20:29 PM
i wanna see reggie as a #1 wr in meaningful games produce on a regular basis.
I think we all do, Skippy.
Worry not about the RB position... Stephen Davis is heading to Philly?! (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm) :sly
QuoteDAVIS HEADING TO PHILLY
A team source tells us that running back Stephen Davis will visit with the Eagles on Monday, possibly as a precursor to signing a free-agent deal.
Davis passed a physical last week with Dr. James Andrews of Birmingham, Alabama. A letter was then sent to every team explaining that Davis is healthy and available.
The Eagles currently have injury issues at the tailback position. Brian Westbrook has a bad foot. Correll Buckhalter is working his way back from two lost seasons; he managed a 48-yard run on Thursday night against the Ravens.
Other teams that could be interested in Davis include the taterskins. Davis was drafted by Washington in 1996 and spent seven seasons in D.C. Coach Steve Spurrier gave up on him after the 2002 season, but Davis then had his best season ever in 2003 with the Panthers, as Carolina landed in the Super Bowl. Davis was injured for most of the 2004 season, and had 12 touchdowns in 13 games before landing in IR in 2005.
Another possible scenario would be for Davis to sign with a new team after the first week of the regular season, since if he is on any team's roster for the opening weekend his entire salary would be fully guaranteed.
RJS, you do really overrate the taterskins defense.
Can I ask you waht you think of Michael Lewis? I'm sure you'l lsay something to effect that he can tackle well and plays the run well, but can't cover for shtein.
Ahem...That's Adam Archuletta in a nutshell. So saying thier defense is going to be great with the likes of Rumph and Archuletta is like saying the Eagles are going to be great with Rod Hood and Michael Lewis.
Our D-Line is better then thiers. Thier LB's are better then ours. Our Secondary murders theres. Yet you express how good their D will be, and you sit here and talk negatively about ours.
Just doesn't make sense to me. YOu say every team in the NFC East is dangerous for one reason or another...right, and so are we. Why should we fear any other team, if they have reason to fear us too?
Interesting EF.
What does that mean for Perry, Buckhalter and Mahe if he signs?
Perry was already done.
So he fumbles 3 times in one game and loses a job, but Buckhalter tears his knees like 4 years in a row and somehow he can keep making the team?
Westbrook, Moats, Mahe. If Stephen Davis gets signed for some reason, then it's Westbrook, Moats, Davis, Mahe.
I think they could carry 5 RBs and carry only 2 QBs.
Because Detmer has sucked so bad and 5 RBs are insurance for an injury prone Westbrook and Moats coming off a sprained knee.
You think a lot of things.
Thinking is the best way to save yourself when you are lost in the wilds.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 20, 2006, 11:01:27 PM
Thinking is the best way to save yourself when you are lost in the wilds.
Remembering to pack a satellite phone is better.
And they're not going to carry five farging running backs. Jesus...
If they sign Davis, then Buckhalter is done. They're essentially the same back anyway, so why have two of them?
I know they won't carry 5 RBs, I was being facetious.
But it seems strange to me that they'd cut Buckhalter after the first game back and he actually played okay, and made it out without an injury.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 20, 2006, 11:08:23 PM
But it seems strange to me that they'd cut Buckhalter after the first game back and he actually played okay, and made it out without an injury.
That's called quiting while you're ahead.
Quote from: Munson on August 20, 2006, 10:48:33 PM
RJS, you do really overrate the taterskins defense.
Can I ask you waht you think of Michael Lewis? I'm sure you'l lsay something to effect that he can tackle well and plays the run well, but can't cover for shtein.
Ahem...That's Adam Archuletta in a nutshell. So saying thier defense is going to be great with the likes of Rumph and Archuletta is like saying the Eagles are going to be great with Rod Hood and Michael Lewis.
Our D-Line is better then thiers. Thier LB's are better then ours. Our Secondary murders theres. Yet you express how good their D will be, and you sit here and talk negatively about ours.
Just doesn't make sense to me. YOu say every team in the NFC East is dangerous for one reason or another...right, and so are we. Why should we fear any other team, if they have reason to fear us too?
Your idiocy aside, comparing Archuletta to Lewis is stupid. I'm talking about the defense as a whole you dipshtein. The taterskins defense is better coached than any defense in the league. How else could they drag that pathetic offense to 10 wins last year?
Sure Archulletta and Leiws are similiarly talented. Unfortunately, Archuletta has the best defnesive coordinator in the league coaching him and Lewis doesn't. Stop addressing me with your posts if you arne't even going to read what I'm writing, child.
I personally think that Reid is so dedicated to the ground game this year that they're going to carry 23 RBs and FIVE FBs. Everyone gets one carry per game to keep them fresh.
Come on, how many backup linemen do they need?
I think they should try Honey Buns out at tailback. He'd be just like the fridge only less athletic and more whiter.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 20, 2006, 05:14:29 PM
The other teams in the east are not invulnerable powerhouses. The very notion of that is retarded. The Skins are going to have trouble scoring. The Giants defense is weak. The Coybows have less question marks than the other two but they will need to protect Bledsoe in order to move the ball.
My point is that all three are dangerous for different reasons (Skins defense, no matter what you think of Rumph who should only be their nickle if anything and Archuletta, will be very difficult to score on. The Giants' offense should be silly good and they can get after the QB on D. Dallas' offense can be scary good and their defense is young and talented and well coached.) and the days of this team cruising through the division are gone.
Why are we even talking about Rumph anyway? The dude sucks. But he isn't going to be asked to do much because that's not the way Williams' defense works. That team's weakness is offense and they improved. Period.
You can come up with little holes in any team. When the 'little' hole on a team are an utter lack of talent at WR and an utter inability to run for tough yards by the RBs, the hole does look so little any more.
Read the bold, you said thier defense, with Rumph and Archuletta, will be tough to score on. That's like saying our defense, with Hood and Mike Lewis, will be tough to score on. But you'd never say that. Our defense is essentially stronger then thiers, and yet you consentrate on the positives of thier defense and the negatives of ours. Thier d-line isn't that good with the exception of 1, MAYBE 2 players, NO DEPTH, thier secondary isn't that good, ESPECIALLY without Springs. Now Rumph has to start.
Woo, I'm terrifed of not scoring on them.
But our defense, with Trotter, Dawkins, Brown, Kearse, Howard....Nah, they won't be good enough to carry our "sorry" offense. You know, the offense with the Pro-Bowl QB. But the taterskins D will be able to carry Mark Brunell underthrowing Santana Moss. I even left off the young guys who are showing promise so you wouldn't do your usual negative spin of "they havn't proven anything yet, so I won't get excited about them because they won't be good." You know, guys like Mike Lewis, Patterson, Bunkley, McCoy, Trent Cole....And the role players/depth guys like Walker, Ramsey, etc...
BTW, you're nuts if you Santana Moss will put up those numbers again. He was a dissapointment for...forever...then had one good year, and suddenly everyone's scared of him.
Oh, and Jim Johnson is a pretty good defensive coach....I think I read that somewhere.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 20, 2006, 12:35:47 PM
Laughable. They got Rumph for less than nothing. They over paid for two WRs, yes, but they are better WRs than they had last year, not to mention a better return man. They improved. Not by a ton, but they improved. Portis is a legit issue, but everything else you just wrote are not valid points.
But they still will be relying on Shawn Springs to get healthy to help out there. And wil Carlos Rogers be ready to play? I like him as a CB but what can he do? Do we know? If Springs can't get right then the top 3 CBs in Washington will be Rogers, Kenny Wright and Mike Rumph.
And my point still stands about the taterskins pass rush. They have to get pressure from the DB's and LB's to help there. And we, as fans of a blitz reliant team, know what its like to watch the DC have to continuously bring pressure and leave guys on an island.
QuoteThe Eagles don't have RBs, WRs or LBs who can play.
Look, I understand the questions about Westbrook's health. But the guy can play football. He's a pretty good running back - better than you're willing to give him credit for. He can run inside as long as he has the holes to run through. And that is the case with any RB - small or big. If a 240lb back has a few guys waiting on him he'll get hit just as hard as the mini-back will. He might fall forward a few inches or be able to rock one defender but it all comes down to the commitment to the run and run blocking.
Trotter is a stud. Dhani Jones is farging horrible and Matt McCoy has some promise. And even if he doesn't pan out they have Shawn Barber there ready to step in.
i know you hate the WRs. But I think that Reggie is going to be a stud, I've said it before and will keep saying it until I'm right or wrong. I know what the deal is with Baskett. Its extremely abnormal for him to do what he's done so far. We're not used to seeing that stuff here. But I still want another WR too. I need that field stretcher.
QuoteRidiculous. If that's all you can come up with about the Cowboys you must be more scared of them than I am.
The OL questions are HUGE. How can you downplay that? Bledsoe is not good when pressured. Their LT is coming off of ACL surgery and is still behind a little bit. They have two guys fighting it out at C who are both disappointments in Andre Gurode and Al Johnson. They have Marco Rivera coming off of a poor season when he had back troubles. They picked up Marc Colombo last year. He was a #1 pick by CHI out of BC who blew his knee up big time. They also have Rob Pettitti a low draft choice fighting at RT with Columbo and Jason Fabini. Oh, and that excellent FA signing Kyle Kosier to replace Larry Allen.
They still have no FS to speak of. Is Pat Watkins their guy? He's a rookie so its tough to tell. Is Keith Davis going to keep bullets out of his body long enough to play? And when he does he's not very good. Or do they rely on old Marcus Coleman? Either way if they have to drop Williams back into coverage then it helps us and hurts them. He's horrible back there in coverage.
Can Greg Ellis make the change from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB? Who is their other ILB next to Bradie James? Scott Shanle or do they move Bobby Carpenter inside? And if they move Carpenter inside does Al Singleton keep his OLB job?
What about the most important piece of a 3-4...a dominating NT? Is Jason Ferguson done? He looked like it last year.
And kicking is a big question mark too. Vanderjerk is still shanking balls and cannot kickoff for shtein.
And how much will the TO circus affect that team?
There are questions there, bro.
QuoteFinally, something reasonable. Andy Reid doesn't put any value on the outcome of preseason games. Never has. All of this means nothing. But the first teamers could have not played a single down and we would all still know that their WRs, RBs and LBs are HUGE question marks. This doesn't have anything to do with it being pre-season...
Let's just see, shall we? Like I said - I know the Eagles are not without questions. But my whole point is that as hard as you can dig for questions about the Eagles I can find questions about the other NFCE teams. Legit questions too...not some stuff I've made up.
of course you can find problems on all the teams but out of the four teams in the division the eagles have more and much easier to find problems than the other three...does that mean they cant win the divison no...but right now they are clearly not as good as the skins and giants and i think id put them on par with dallas
at halftime Peter King says he thinks there is a good chance Bledsoe is replaced by Romo during the season if not by the beginning.
Quote from: Munson on August 21, 2006, 02:18:07 AM
Read the bold, you said thier defense, with Rumph and Archuletta, will be tough to score on. That's like saying our defense, with Hood and Mike Lewis, will be tough to score on. But you'd never say that. Our defense is essentially stronger then thiers, and yet you consentrate on the positives of thier defense and the negatives of ours. Thier d-line isn't that good with the exception of 1, MAYBE 2 players, NO DEPTH, thier secondary isn't that good, ESPECIALLY without Springs. Now Rumph has to start.
Woo, I'm terrifed of not scoring on them.
But our defense, with Trotter, Dawkins, Brown, Kearse, Howard....Nah, they won't be good enough to carry our "sorry" offense. You know, the offense with the Pro-Bowl QB. But the taterskins D will be able to carry Mark Brunell underthrowing Santana Moss. I even left off the young guys who are showing promise so you wouldn't do your usual negative spin of "they havn't proven anything yet, so I won't get excited about them because they won't be good." You know, guys like Mike Lewis, Patterson, Bunkley, McCoy, Trent Cole....And the role players/depth guys like Walker, Ramsey, etc...
BTW, you're nuts if you Santana Moss will put up those numbers again. He was a dissapointment for...forever...then had one good year, and suddenly everyone's scared of him.
Oh, and Jim Johnson is a pretty good defensive coach....I think I read that somewhere.
Once again you're responding to what I wrote without actually reading it. Our defense has just as much if not more talent. They had more talent last year too, and the year before. The taterskins defense as a whole was still better. I'm not talking about individual players you illiterate sack of shtein.
Jason Davis tore his ACL... done for the year.
Hurray! Another excuse for Andy to not keep a real fullback.
You're basing the taterskins offense as a whole better then ours on what?
Last year was the first time in a long time our defense played like shtein. We all know that. They had zero pass rush and the secondary was torn apart. But what about the year before that? And the year before that? I would have taken the Eagles D over thiers in a heartbeat.
And you fail to realize thier defense has been LOSING players and talent over the last few years, where we continue to gain young up and comers...and even spend some good money on the DE's. Patterson/Bunkley should be good for years to come....Patterson showed promise but hit the rookie wall, and Bunkley so far has looked good, even being out of shape. Matt McCoy, whether you want to admit it or not, has shown...well at the least he's shown he's better then Keith Adams. That's an instant upgrade over laast year. Lets see how he does when thrown into a real game before we proclaim him the suck.
No IGY, white LB's don't always suck. :D
You're basing the taterskins offense as a whole better then ours on what?
is this a trick question?
how about talent
portis
cooley
moss
randel el
lloyd
you wont find many teams with a better set of skill position players than that...granted they have old man brunnel trying to get them the ball...and that could be the equalizer...but if brunnell is even average which he was last year with much less talent they will be better than the eagles on offense this year
Cooley is an HBACK not a TE so how can you even include him, especially now that Al Saunders is running the offense?
Cooley is an HBACK not a TE so how can you even include him, especially now that Al Saunders is running the offense?
saunders doesnt use an hback...cooley is going to be tony gonalzez for him
anyway that the stupidest thing ive ever heard that you wouldnt include him because of his position...does that mean his 70 catches and 7 td's last year didnt really happen?
The Eagles have a slight edge on the OL, a huge edge at QB, and roughly a wash at TE if you consider Cooley the TE (because he basically is). The skins WR's are easily superior and their RB's are better even if you assume Portis is not better than Westbrook, which is a dangerously sketchy assessment.
I'd say the two offenses are basically a wash, unless some Eagles WR's seriously step up.
the eagles have a huge edge at qb if the eagles qb had weapons...mcnabb isnt good enough to overcome bad wr's and no running game...clearly mcnabb is better than brunnel were all things equal...but this year with the respective offenses around them you can make a case that brunnell will have a better year...tho it has to be admitted that its possible brunnel could have NOTHING left...and if thats the case it changes everything
Quote from: phillywin2k5 on August 21, 2006, 04:58:02 PM
Cooley is an HBACK not a TE so how can you even include him, especially now that Al Saunders is running the offense?
Um...just because Saunders doesnt/wouldnt use an "HBACK", that means they'll just take Cooley out of the offense?
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 21, 2006, 05:08:48 PM
the eagles have a huge edge at qb if the eagles qb had weapons...mcnabb isnt good enough to overcome bad wr's and no running game...clearly mcnabb is better than brunnel were all things equal...but this year with the respective offenses around them you can make a case that brunnell will have a better year...tho it has to be admitted that its possible brunnel could have NOTHING left...and if thats the case it changes everything
:-D, name me one QB that ever has been?
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 21, 2006, 05:08:48 PM
the eagles have a huge edge at qb if the eagles qb had weapons...mcnabb isnt good enough to overcome bad wr's and no running game...clearly mcnabb is better than brunnel were all things equal...but this year with the respective offenses around them you can make a case that brunnell will have a better year...tho it has to be admitted that its possible brunnel could have NOTHING left...and if thats the case it changes everything
No... no you can't.
Brunell will not have a better year than McNabb unless there is another freak injury.
Yes, I'm even considering the surrounding cast.
name me one QB that ever has been?
recently tom brady for one and he won the sb...but im not talking about going all the way im talking about in general mcnabb is not a qb whos passing abilities are going to make players better...he needs big time talent around him to be truly great....whereas a peyton manning a bledsoe (in his prime) steve young are all pure passing qb's who can make avg or good wr's better...we are entering broken record land tho so lets just agree to disagree
Shhh, don't say his name. They don't have a legitimate response for his ridiculous level of superiority over McNabb.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 21, 2006, 07:06:19 PM
Shhh, don't say his name. They don't have a legitimate response for his ridiculous level of superiority over McNabb.
He has possibly the greatest coach of all time behind him, and you can not compare Branch, Givens, etc to what McNabb will have this year.
Branch is a second round WR. Brown is a second round WR.
Givens was a low round WR. Baskett was an undrafted WR.
Pretty comparable if you ask me.
Either way Brady won three superbowls with questionable WR talent and he won two of them with utterly shteinastic running games.
BTW, I'm saying their comparable in terms of physical ability. The difference is that Brady makes his recievers better while McNabb doesn't increase or decrease the value of his receivers. They just are what they are.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 21, 2006, 07:10:07 PM
Branch is a second round WR. Brown is a second round WR.
Givens was a low round WR. Baskett was an undrafted WR.
Pretty comparable if you ask me.
Either way Brady won three superbowls with questionable WR talent and he won two of them with utterly shteinastic running games.
Fine I'll give you that, but you dont think the difference in coaching skills is a legitimate response? I am obviously not going to argue that McNabb is better or as good as Brady, but that needs to be taken into account.
Of course coaching had an impact. Bill B is so far ahead of Andy Reid in terms of in-game coaching that they can't even be compared.
What I think is that Tom Brady, on the Eagles, coached by Andy Reid in 2002, 2003 and 2004, gets the team over the hump and wins a Lombardi. While he elevates his game when it matters most, McNabb just plays the way he plays. And they are on two completely different levels as players because of it.
brady wins more because belichek is light years ahead of reid as a coach but as far as how good of a player each is you could argue that mcnabb has/had the advantage in terms of coaching as he has played for an offensive mind where as brady has played for a defensive guru
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 21, 2006, 07:20:15 PM
brady wins more because belichek is light years ahead of reid as a coach but as far as how good of a player each is you could argue that mcnabb has/had the advantage in terms of coaching as he has played for an offensive mind where as brady has played for a defensive guru
You manage to contradict yourself intra-post more often than anyone else on this board outside of Bunkley78.
I've never contradicted myself.
ever
no youre just always wrong
I've very rarely been wrong.
You, on the other hand, are not only wrong, but are pretty ignorant as well.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 21, 2006, 07:56:26 PM
I've very rarely been wrong.
You, on the other hand, are not only wrong, but are pretty ignorant as well.
Cripple fight?
Quote from: rjs246 on August 21, 2006, 07:06:19 PM
Shhh, don't say his name. They don't have a legitimate response for his ridiculous level of superiority over McNabb.
Brady? Why would anybody try?
My only thing is he has had one normal season with a legitimate WR and look how good he was. All of those players that IGY has mentioned have always had at least one their whole NFL career.
I plan to pick McNabb #3 overall in my FFL draft on Saturday! that is incredibly accurate!
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 21, 2006, 07:20:15 PM
brady wins more because belichek is light years ahead of reid as a coach but as far as how good of a player each is you could argue that mcnabb has/had the advantage in terms of coaching as he has played for an offensive mind where as brady has played for a defensive guru
The blatant disregard for simple grammar and punctuation around here lately is disturbing. Jesus Christ, are you all 12 year old girls typing this shtein out on your phones?
Internet slang and shorthand is very high on my long list of pet peeves.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 21, 2006, 08:12:56 PM
Internet slang and shorthand is very high on my long list of pet peeves.
RUMCYMHMD
Quote from: FFatPatt on August 21, 2006, 06:16:57 PM
Brunell will not have a better year than McNabb unless there is another freak injury.
Yes, I'm even considering the surrounding cast.
I disagree with this statement. Brunell will have a better year than last. and from a statistical standpoint as well. If you cant see that they added talent to make the QB better (which is so needed for McNabb right now), than your blind. Just relying on the fact Brunell is "old" is an awful way at looking at it
Brunell is not just going to fall off the face of the earth and decide to throw 4 int's a game. He did extremely well for many weeks until their game plan became so predictable down the stretch, defenses were blanketing their only threats in Moss and Cooley--with an occasional Portis out on the dump. Hes a veteran who is older but will be wiser with more talent around him.
They are not the "best" receivers like IGY predicts, but they will conttribute in a big way. I hope they shtein the bed in a big way, but Im also not blinded by the fact he has better talent this year, and the defense will only give the O better field position to score easier with this talent.
People hare hating just to hate--face it, they have a good team
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 20, 2006, 06:02:21 PM
All I know is that, for my money, Baskett, LJ, and Brown are already better than Thrash and Pinkston. LJ looks real good to me this pre-season
pinkston not hurt = brown right now if not beter than
Jesus Christ, you
can't be that farging dumb.
This thread has become pointless. Everyone who thinks the Eagles have no chance to beat the Giants and Skins are football geniuses, and everyone who thinks that the Eagles have a chance to win are stupid homers.
Brown has not proven that he can do anything. Why is that so difficult for you people to comprehend?
I don't understand how Reggie Brown could have any less than 1700 yards and 13 TD's. It's unpossible. Go Birds.
And just what the farg has Pinkston proved he can do besides drop passes, and punk out when he's called on to go over the middle? He's done, he should be cut.
Brown on the other hand has an upside.
Quote from: FFatPatt on August 21, 2006, 08:51:38 PM
I don't understand how Reggie Brown could have any less than 1700 yards and 13 TD's. It's unpossible. Go Birds.
UR A H8R! 3000 YRD N 40 TDS!
Optimism is bad mmmm-kay?
Christ, it is just so unreasonable to think that Reggie Brown will improve with another year in the offense and with more games with McNabb as the QB instead of McMahon.
Quote from: shorebird on August 21, 2006, 08:52:49 PM
And just what the farg has Pinkston proved he can do besides drop passes, and punk out when he's called on to go over the middle? He's done, he should be cut.
Brown on the other hand has an upside.
sure he does, and so did Greg Lewis. Doesnt scare you at all that a 2nd yr receiver cant even get open in the preseason? You think their hiding their secret plays for Brown?
Quote from: shorebird on August 21, 2006, 08:52:49 PM
And just what the farg has Pinkston proved he can do besides drop passes, and punk out when he's called on to go over the middle? He's done, he should be cut.
Brown on the other hand has an upside.
He's proven that when he was healthy he could accumulate between 600 and 800 yards per season.
Once Brown gains more yards than he did with more TDs then I will be happy to admit that he is better than Pinkston was, but until that happens, Pinkston (when healthy, as IGY was pointing out) was better. This isn't rocket science.
Quote from: reese125 on August 21, 2006, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: shorebird on August 21, 2006, 08:52:49 PM
And just what the farg has Pinkston proved he can do besides drop passes, and punk out when he's called on to go over the middle? He's done, he should be cut.
Brown on the other hand has an upside.
sure he does, and so did Greg Lewis. Doesnt scare you at all that a 2nd yr receiver cant even get open in the preseason? You think their hiding their secret plays for Brown?
Really you think Lewis had upside? I always thought he was a #4 reciever at best.
I think what it comes to is since Brown was annointed as the Eagles #1, he must be better than any Eagles past or current receiver....even without proving it....yeah makes sense
Quote from: mpmcgraw on August 21, 2006, 08:59:37 PM
Quote from: reese125 on August 21, 2006, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: shorebird on August 21, 2006, 08:52:49 PM
And just what the farg has Pinkston proved he can do besides drop passes, and punk out when he's called on to go over the middle? He's done, he should be cut.
Brown on the other hand has an upside.
sure he does, and so did Greg Lewis. Doesnt scare you at all that a 2nd yr receiver cant even get open in the preseason? You think their hiding their secret plays for Brown?
Really you think Lewis had upside? I always thought he was a #4 reciever at best.
I want you to go back to the Greg lewis thread from last season I was going to post, but just dont feel like it. That train was full steam ahead my friend
Quote from: rjs246 on August 21, 2006, 08:57:41 PM
He's proven that when he was healthy he could accumulate between 600 and 800 yards per season.
Those 29 yards are going to be murder for Brown to get this year.
Not at all. And when he gets them he'll be AS GOOD AS Pinkston.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 21, 2006, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: shorebird on August 21, 2006, 08:52:49 PM
And just what the farg has Pinkston proved he can do besides drop passes, and punk out when he's called on to go over the middle? He's done, he should be cut.
Brown on the other hand has an upside.
He's proven that when he was healthy he could accumulate between 600 and 800 yards per season.
Once Brown gains more yards than he did with more TDs then I will be happy to admit that he is better than Pinkston was, but until that happens, Pinkston (when healthy, as IGY was pointing out) was better. This isn't rocket science.
Per Season!! He went over 600 twice in 5 seasons, and you say he has proven he can do it
per season?? Bullfargingshtein. He'll never get 800-1,000 yards. He can't get off the line. He can't go over the middle. He sucks, cut him.
And no, I'm not worried that Brown hasn't caught many passes in three pre-season games, or about 4 quarters of football. All of a sudden, he can't get open?? Bullfargingshtein again.
"And no, I'm not worried that Brown hasn't caught many passes in three pre-season games, or about 4 quarters of football. All of a sudden, he can't get open?? Bullfargingshtein again. "
do you see any other calibur starting WR's milking it and trying not to get open? practice makes for solid progression..and yes thats includes...um preseason "games". Scares me--thats why I bought a dog
Quote from: General_Failure on August 21, 2006, 08:08:25 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 21, 2006, 07:20:15 PM
brady wins more because belichek is light years ahead of reid as a coach but as far as how good of a player each is you could argue that mcnabb has/had the advantage in terms of coaching as he has played for an offensive mind where as brady has played for a defensive guru
The blatant disregard for simple grammar and punctuation around here lately is disturbing. Jesus Christ, are you all 12 year old girls typing this shtein out on your phones?
Haha. That's one thing I can't be blamed for. I'm a grammar & punctuation nazi.
:poison
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 21, 2006, 09:51:56 PM
Quote from: General_Failure on August 21, 2006, 08:08:25 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 21, 2006, 07:20:15 PM
brady wins more because belichek is light years ahead of reid as a coach but as far as how good of a player each is you could argue that mcnabb has/had the advantage in terms of coaching as he has played for an offensive mind where as brady has played for a defensive guru
The blatant disregard for simple grammar and punctuation around here lately is disturbing. Jesus Christ, are you all 12 year old girls typing this shtein out on your phones?
Haha. That's one thing I can't be blamed for. I'm a grammar & punctuation nazi.
:D
:poison
Sorry guys, I had a typo. My post was supposed to say to RJS what makes him think the taterskins DEFENSE is so superior to ours in years past, other then last year, when we all know they were shtein.
So do we get Stephen Davis or what?
Looks like a lot of people are riding teh IGY train around here all of a sudden. Nothin wrong wit dat. Just thought I'd point it out.
To comment on the thread because I'm drunk enough....
Our recievers are unproven sacks of shtein until proven other wise. Get it? Got it? Good!
This past game against the Ravens was against one of the best defenses in the NFL (#3 last year). Would have been nice to see Brown rise to the occasion but he didn't. Not time to sell the farm yet but there's still lots of stress drinking to be had till the season starts. HOLLA!
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 21, 2006, 10:31:30 PM
So do we get Stephen Davis or what?
He left Novacare without a contract, but according to John Nalbone, who I guess is the new Eagles' beat writer for NJ.com, Reid gave Davis a private workout and then interviewed him.
Also of interest is that Nalbone said Pinkston looked good on a long catch and run, "but hobbled somewhat going back to the huddle". He also mentions that they're trying new shoes on him.
They're checking Chris Gocong for fractured vertabrae in his neck.
And, "don't be surprised if rookie backup MLB gets some work on the outside during the last two preseason games."
Duce may be cut. (http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9614245) Schefter speculates we'd be interested. He would be perfect for this team right now, and his injury history is no worse than Davis or any of the other crap they're looking to bring in.
I love Duce. And I would love to have him as an Eagle, but I don't know how much of an upgrade he would be. He knows the offense, can catch and can pass-protect. Outside of that he was never the greatest running back on earth and has been injured A LOT. Still. I heart Duce.
Man if he got cut I would hope the Eagles would snatch Duce up with a quickness. He would be at least be able to provide them with something until they could upgrade the position next year.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 22, 2006, 07:37:52 PM
I love Duce. And I would love to have him as an Eagle, but I don't know how much of an upgrade he would be. He knows the offense, can catch and can pass-protect. Outside of that he was never the greatest running back on earth and has been injured A LOT. Still. I heart Duce.
Ditto. He's also great in the locker room and would bring some much needed leadership to the offense. Because in terms of skill positions, McNabb is it. I don't see Westbrook as a leader and I definately don't see any of the recievers stepping up. Maybe Reggie will as time goes on but right now I really think he's just trying to make sure he does what he's supposed to rather than help rally the troops.
If the Steelers cut him, the Eagles should have him signed by the end of the day.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE!!!!
And FYI up to this point I've refused to do the whole sponsorship thing, but if Duce were to become an Eagle again I'm claiming dibs.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on August 22, 2006, 08:50:47 PM
And FYI up to this point I've refused to do the whole sponsorship thing, but if Duce were to become an Eagle again I'm claiming dibs.
farger.
What do you care? You sponsor ljs82.
C-
Kiss Lelie goodbye
QuoteATLANTA Filling their need for a No. 3 wide receiver, the Atlanta Falcons on Tuesday night acquired disgruntled Denver Broncos veteran Ashley Lelie in a three-team trade, ESPN.com has learned.
T.J. Duckett</a>
Duckett
Ashley Lelie
Lelie
The Falcons sent former first-round tailback T.J. Duckett to the Washington taterskins and the Broncos will receive an undisclosed draft choice in the deal. The Falcons have been shopping Duckett in trade talks much of the offseason.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2558101
Well that sucks.
"Undisclosed draft pick" is a 3rd rounder.
Motherfarger.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 22, 2006, 09:48:09 PM
Motherfarger.
I'm quitting the internet for tonight. :P
It isn't bad enough that the Eagles didn't get him (and probably didn't make a play for him) but the farging taterskins? Ugh. Oh well, I guess I can go back to hating his ass the way I did in college.
Stephen Davis is better than Duckett, so I'm not that mad about that.
I really don't care that much about Lelie either. He wasn't worth a 3rd rounder.
All in all it doesn't hurt the Eagles and doesn't help the Falcons, taterskins or Broncos.
I'd take Duckett over Davis every single time if I didnt have to give up a pick.
And yeah...it helps every team in the trade. There's no way it doesnt. Unless you're saying Ashley Lelie and TJ Duckett is the equivalent of a 3rd round bust, thats the only way it doesnt help the teams.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:00:21 PM
Stephen Davis is better than Duckett, so I'm not that mad about that.
I really don't care that much about Lelie either. He wasn't worth a 3rd rounder.
All in all it doesn't hurt the Eagles and doesn't help the Falcons, taterskins or Broncos.
Man I knew you were going to say that, sad really.
so 2 more nfc playoff contenders improve themselves while the eagles front office sits around with their thumbs up their arses.
yay!
For what it's worth, the Falcons fans are damn angry about this trade, because they didn't want Lelie, and the Broncos fans aren't too excited about it either.
taterskins fans either like it or are lukewarm.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:00:21 PM
Stephen Davis is better than Duckett, so I'm not that mad about that.
The list of utterly stupid shtein that you feel the urge to type just grows and grows...
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:00:21 PM
Stephen Davis is better than Duckett, so I'm not that mad about that.
I really don't care that much about Lelie either. He wasn't worth a 3rd rounder.
All in all it doesn't hurt the Eagles and doesn't help the Falcons, taterskins or Broncos.
Are you joking with the comment about Davis being better than Duckett? Maybe two years ago, but Davis is an old back with even older knees.
The trade absolutely helps both the Falcons and taterskins. The Skins needed more depth at running back with Portis' shoulder issue and got it. The Falcons WR corps was probably worse than the Eagles corps, so they absolutely improved with Lelie.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:06:05 PM
For what it's worth, the Falcons fans are damn angry about this trade, because they didn't want Lelie, and the Broncos fans aren't too excited about it either.
taterskins fans either like it or are lukewarm.
I don't know how you would be able to talk for all Falcons, Broncos and taterskins fans, but I'm guessing if some Falcons fans don't like it, it's because they didn't want the Falcons to trade Duckett. Any Broncos fan who doesn't like it was just another fan who overrates how much draft pick value players actually have in a trade.
I browsed some of the boards a little bit ago, and the Falcons board is pretty much on the same page. Everyone seems to hate it.
The Broncos are so-so and the taterskins either like it or are so-so.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:00:21 PM
Stephen Davis is better than Duckett, so I'm not that mad about that.
I really don't care that much about Lelie either. He wasn't worth a 3rd rounder.
All in all it doesn't hurt the Eagles and doesn't help the Falcons, taterskins or Broncos.
(http://www.seroogys.com/i/s_p/deluxe_mixed_nuts_sm.jpg)
Pretty much what I figured. A bunch of talk going on a bunch of hype.
Davis had a better season last year than Duckett. So I don't even wanna hear all this talk about how good Duckett is. He farging sucks.
Watch the game and maybe you'll get a clue.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:10:50 PM
I browsed some of the boards a little bit ago, and the Falcons board is pretty much on the same page. Everyone seems to hate it.
The Broncos are so-so and the taterskins either like it or are so-so.
Well then the Broncos fans that you seem to know are morons, they wouldnt have gotten anything better than a 3rd rounder.
Quote from: hunt on August 22, 2006, 10:05:14 PM
so 2 more nfc playoff contenders improve themselves while the eagles front office sits around with their thumbs up their arses.
yay!
That about sums it up.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:12:51 PM
Pretty much what I figured. A bunch of talk going on a bunch of hype.
Davis had a better season last year than Duckett. So I don't even wanna hear all this talk about how good Duckett is. He farging sucks.
Watch the game and maybe you'll get a clue.
You're a farging idiot. Go away.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:12:51 PM
Pretty much what I figured. A bunch of talk going on a bunch of hype.
Davis had a better season last year than Duckett. So I don't even wanna hear all this talk about how good Duckett is. He farging sucks.
Watch the game and maybe you'll get a clue.
First off you do realize that Davis isn't an Eagle, don't you? Second, Duckett is only 26 whereas Davis is 32. (Don't ask me why I bother)
Why do you bother?
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:12:51 PM
Pretty much what I figured. A bunch of talk going on a bunch of hype.
Davis had a better season last year than Duckett. So I don't even wanna hear all this talk about how good Duckett is. He farging sucks.
Watch the game and maybe you'll get a clue.
Davis averaged 3.1 yards a carry last season. You can say what you want about the two players but I am willing to bet Duckett has a better season than Davis this year.
They had identical stats. One of them just got more carries. And the other is 6 years younger. But you know, the old man is definitely the better choice of the two.
so 2 more nfc playoff contenders improve themselves while the eagles front office sits around with their thumbs up their arses.
andys system>>>other teams players
So Duckett is good and Dayne sucks, right? OK, I'm caught up....
Quote from: rjs246 on August 22, 2006, 10:20:12 PM
They had identical stats. One of them just got more carries. And the other is 6 years younger. But you know, the old man is definitely the better choice of the two.
Coming off of another injury there is no doubt he is better.
Quote from: BigEd76 on August 22, 2006, 10:24:50 PM
So Duckett is good and Dayne sucks, right? OK, I'm caught up....
I would think Duckett is better than Dayne, but that doesn't say much.
Bunkley, you remind of Roberto Duran in the infamous "No Mas Fight" against Sugar Ray Leonard--except you havent given up yet. I urge your corner to throw in the towel
ease up on pusing the "post" button until you really comb your thoughts with a fine tooth comb
Of course Davis isn't an Eagle, but you are mad that the taterskins got Duckett, like we could've gotten him too. I'm assuming that's why you are mad.
First of all, the Falcons have the same system that Denver has. RBs thrive in the system. If you don't thrive in Denver or Atlanta, then something must be wrong. Duckett won't be as good in Washington as he was in Atlanta, and he's going to be the 2nd or 3rd RB, if Portis is there.
Secondly, just say for a second that Duckett is better than Davis, even though I don't think he is. You'd have to give up a pick for Duckett. A fairly high pick. A 3rd or 4th. Is Duckett that much better than Davis where he's worth a 3rd or 4th rounder, as to where Davis can be had for no picks or players to give up at all?
Faaaaarg no.
I'm in want of a RB or a WR just as much as everyone here. But we don't have to get stupid and overpay for a WR who would only be here one year(yes the Eagles wouldn't have re-signed Lelie) or a RB who would be had for a 3rd or 4th, when we can get equal production for giving up nothing at all.
No... Davis sucks.. Duhhhhh :-p
Bunkley, you remind of Roberto Duran in the infamous "No Mas Fight" against Sugar Ray Leonard--except you havent given up yet. I urge your corner to throw in the towel
do you not understand people like bunkley dont actually believe what they say...all they care about is being different and being "controversial" on internet boards as a way to draw attention to themselves...ignore him and hell go away...and even if he doesnt at least he wont have anyone to talk his idiocy with
The season is over, we didn't get Duckett and Lelie, and worst of all they went to NFC opponents!
wah
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 22, 2006, 10:30:12 PM
Bunkley, you remind of Roberto Duran in the infamous "No Mas Fight" against Sugar Ray Leonard--except you havent given up yet. I urge your corner to throw in the towel
do you not understand people like bunkley dont actually believe what they say...all they care about is being different and being "controversial" on internet boards as a way to draw attention to themselves...ignore him and hell go away...and even if he doesnt at least he wont have anyone to talk his idiocy with
For once, IGY knows what he's talking about.
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 22, 2006, 10:30:12 PM
Bunkley, you remind of Roberto Duran in the infamous "No Mas Fight" against Sugar Ray Leonard--except you havent given up yet. I urge your corner to throw in the towel
do you not understand people like bunkley dont actually believe what they say...all they care about is being different and being "controversial" on internet boards as a way to draw attention to themselves...ignore him and hell go away...and even if he doesnt at least he wont have anyone to talk his idiocy with
Irony?
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:00:21 PM
Stephen Davis is better than Duckett, so I'm not that mad about that.
I really don't care that much about Lelie either. He wasn't worth a 3rd rounder.
All in all it doesn't hurt the Eagles and doesn't help the Falcons, taterskins or Broncos.
Davis, circa 2000, was a better back.
Davis, circa 2006, is done.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:27:24 PM
Of course Davis isn't an Eagle, but you are mad that the taterskins got Duckett, like we could've gotten him too. I'm assuming that's why you are mad.
What was stopping us from getting Duckett? A draft pick? We have plenty and needed a big back.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:27:24 PM
First of all, the Falcons have the same system that Denver has. RBs thrive in the system. If you don't thrive in Denver or Atlanta, then something must be wrong.
No, they're not similar. What other back has 'thrived' in Atlanta besides Dunn?
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:27:24 PM
Duckett won't be as good in Washington as he was in Atlanta, and he's going to be the 2nd or 3rd RB, if Portis is there.
Last I checked Washington had a pretty good O-line and running game, no reason he won't do just as well running the ball in their system.
Irony?
im talking about different from everyone else on the planet (him)....not different than the homers on this board (me)
My posts are part frustration, part sarcasm, and part seriousness, and part denial.
I am frustrated that this team feels no urgency to address RB or WR. I just can't express how angry I am with this team and that regard. It's just laughable sometimes. This team has contended for a Superbowl 4 years in a row, yet it seems like they haven't the slightest farging clue of certain aspects of football.
They don't give a shtein about OLBs, they don't give a shtein about RBs, they don't give a shtein about WRs. Yet they pay McNabb a billion dollars a year for 50 years and get him no help.
Get your your cheap asses and get your FRANCHISE some god damn help.
At the same time, I'm not going to jump off the bridge. There are other options out there than Duckett and Lelie. I'm just extremely frustrated right now. Extremely.
Wow that was the most intelligent post you have ever had.
My first post is part of my OCD. Sometimes I don't know how to react with anger and get weird. That's not a joke by the way, I'm really serious about that. It's a side effect of OCD.
But I don't think it makes the Falcons or taterskins significantly better, but it does address needs, which can't hurt. Yes, I'd rather have Duckett than Davis. But not for a 3rd rounder. For a 4th, yes.
I was in denial. I admit it. I have calmed down. So excuse that post.
The only surprising part of this is how Washington got involved. I figured a Denver/Atlanta trade was coming.
The cure for OCD is long walks off of skyrise rooftops.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:53:34 PM
My first post is part of my OCD. Sometimes I don't know how to react with anger and get weird. That's not a joke by the way, I'm really serious about that. It's a side effect of OCD.
But I don't think it makes the Falcons or taterskins significantly better, but it does address needs, which can't hurt. Yes, I'd rather have Duckett than Davis. But not for a 3rd rounder. For a 4th, yes.
I was in denial. I admit it. I have calmed down. So excuse that post.
:-D, wow two consecutive normal posts what is this board coming to.
why long walks...just get it over with a couple quick steps
I can stay calm until september. If on opening day we are without added RB help or WR help, and I don't mean Marty Johnson or a no-name WR at the bottom of the FA pool, then I will be furious, and I will rip this team a new a-hole.
But I still have to have hope that they will add players, although I wouldn't be shocked at all if they didn't.
This team can be so frustrating sometimes. It's hard to rip them because of their success, so a very small part of me wishes for them to fail so they won't have excuses anymore.
Who left is even out there? Stallworth? Kevin Johnson? Tatum Bell?
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 11:09:07 PM
It's hard to rip them because of their success, so a very small part of me wishes for them to fail so they won't have excuses anymore.
They did fail. Miserably. Last year. Ripping them for doing next to nothing to upgrade the offense is acceptible so stop buffing their balls with your tongue.
the eagles lost the best wr in the nfl and replaced him with jabar gaffney...does anything else really need to be said
You could say that Gaffney was beaten out by an undrafted rookie while you're at it.
You can say that Gaffney was never intended to replace Owens & was meant to upgrade Greg Lewis, who failed to upgrade himself.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 22, 2006, 10:00:21 PM
Stephen Davis is better than Duckett, so I'm not that mad about that.
I really don't care that much about Lelie either. He wasn't worth a 3rd rounder.
All in all it doesn't hurt the Eagles and doesn't help the Falcons, taterskins or Broncos.
This is so dumb a comment, it's not even funny.
The Eagles better find a RB and a WR quick. Players are going places and the time to get practices in with the team if they do get players is quickly fading.
Who's left that's being shopped around at WR? Porter? They're not getting a WR.
Stallworth? Kevin Johnson?
Your guess is as good as mine. I have no frickin idea. You may be right that they won't get a WR, but I can't rip them a new one until it turns out that way. Hopefully they won't let us fans down, but I can't say my expectations are that they'll get one. The Eagles just don't seem to care. Either that or are too cheap.
Besides the draft, this has been an abysmal offseason for the Eagles. Didn't do shtein in free agency besides Darren Howard, and when they get a chance to redeem themselves and pick up some offensive help, they still sit on their asses. This front office will be a complete joke if they stick with what they have right now, and I'm not even saying what we have right now sucks. It's because we are 1 injury away from getting completely farged. Reggie Brown or Westbrook getting hurt means an 8-8 season at best.
Damn. They'd better go get somebody so that they don't let the fans down.
They better get somebody before their own QB turns on them. If McNabb gets hurt this year scrambling because a receiver can't get open, I wouldn't be surprised if he demands a trade after the season.
and I wouldn't blame him if he did.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 23, 2006, 12:34:31 AM
Stallworth? Kevin Johnson?
Jesus farging christ. Please. Stop. I'm begging. You're making everyone around you dumber.
Quote
Reggie Brown or Westbrook getting hurt means an 8-8 6-10 season at best.
Fixed.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 23, 2006, 12:38:36 AM
They better get somebody before their own QB turns on them. If McNabb gets hurt this year scrambling because a receiver can't get open, I wouldn't be surprised if he demands a trade after the season.
and I wouldn't blame him if he did.
McNabb doesn't have a large enough scrotum to ask for/demand a trade from this franchise.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 23, 2006, 12:40:07 AM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 23, 2006, 12:34:31 AM
Stallworth? Kevin Johnson?
Jesus farging christ. Please. Stop. I'm begging. You're making everyone around you dumber.
I saw it. I literally just didn't have the energy.
Do you have a better name? He asked for names, and I threw 2 out there. Detroit is stacked at WR, so it's a logical choice. Plus McNabb has supposedly wanted him here for a while now.
Unless you would prefer Charles Rogers. That is the only other name I can think of and we all know Lelie has a better chance of coming here than Rogers, even after just getting traded to Atlanta.
Freddie Mitchell's still out there.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 23, 2006, 12:42:50 AM
Do you have a better name? He asked for names, and I threw 2 out there. Detroit is stacked at WR, so it's a logical choice. Plus McNabb has supposedly wanted him here for a while now.
Welcome back to EMB 2002, everyone! Does anyone else think that Levon Kirkland has a chance of being an Eagle this year?
Quote from: rjs246 on August 23, 2006, 12:45:51 AM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 23, 2006, 12:42:50 AM
Do you have a better name? He asked for names, and I threw 2 out there. Detroit is stacked at WR, so it's a logical choice. Plus McNabb has supposedly wanted him here for a while now.
Welcome back to EMB 2002, everyone! End yourself.
That shtein's not even funny. I will close this whole damn board down.
Promises promises.
Deion Branch isn't going anywhere. Maybe the Bucs let Ike Hilliard go after getting Stovall. Will Justin McCareins get cut?
There aren't many names out there. I'm just throwing out possibilities. Don't assume I really want these guys. I personally wouldn't even want Kevin Johnson, but he's a name that could be had. All I'm doing is throwing out names, you don't need to get all juiced up over it.
The point I was trying to get at is that there is no one available. Jesus.
Shut up Shut up SHUT UP!
Maurice Stovall would be looking good right now...
Not really.
So you'd rather have a special teamer, Gocong, then someone who lit up the scoreboard at ND, and would be more of a deep threat then anyone on this current team??
Let's just cut to the chase and call this a "rebuilding year". That is what it seems the FO is doing. Even if we added a horse of a RB or a true #1 receiver they probably think we won't by vying for the SB. Might as well see what we have, gain some experience and make the run next year.
So you'd rather have a special teamer, Gocong, then someone who lit up the scoreboard at ND, and would be more of a deep threat then anyone on this current team??
i was never a stovall fan but id almost rather have just about anyone from the first three rounds of the draft than gocong
Let's just cut to the chase and call this a "rebuilding year".
more like retooling year....the eagles have too much talent and too good a qb to be rebuilding right now...its a shame tho that they are wasting mcnabbs talents at this stage in his career by ignoring major needs
Quote from: sallad selgae on August 23, 2006, 09:02:42 AM
Let's just cut to the chase and call this a "rebuilding year". That is what it seems the FO is doing. Even if we added a horse of a RB or a true #1 receiver they probably think we won't by vying for the SB. Might as well see what we have, gain some experience and make the run next year.
Or how bout they just add a RB/WR to the mix this year while simultaneously signing him to a long term deal since we have tons of available cap space.
Quote from: General_Failure on August 23, 2006, 12:46:41 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on August 23, 2006, 12:45:51 AM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 23, 2006, 12:42:50 AM
Do you have a better name? He asked for names, and I threw 2 out there. Detroit is stacked at WR, so it's a logical choice. Plus McNabb has supposedly wanted him here for a while now.
Welcome back to EMB 2002, everyone! End yourself.
That shtein's not even funny. I will close this whole damn board down.
The other might not have been funny but ^ that ^ shtein was. :-D :-D
Rumors are that the Steelers are looking to trade (if not release outright) Duce. Although I wonder how much he has left in the tank, I would take him back in a minute if he is released by the Steelers.
Quote from: Philly_Crew on August 23, 2006, 10:10:36 AM
Rumors are that the Steelers are looking to trade (if not release outright) Duce. Although I wonder how much he has left in the tank, I would take him back in a minute if he is released by the Steelers.
Eagles will trade for Duce with a condition DP either before or after Fridays game, BANK ON IT! Duce has looked good in preseason and having him back would probably invigorate him and the entire offense. Duce as the big back who can still catch the ball out of the backfield, unlike Duckett. Duce has plenty left to be a 5-6 carry a game guy especially being out the entire year last season. Better than Perry, Parry, Tapeh anyday!
Quote from: phillywin2k5 on August 23, 2006, 10:15:49 AM
Eagles will trade for Duce with a condition DP either before or after Fridays game, BANK ON IT!
No, they won't. It's much more likely they'd use the game to see if he has anything left in the tank.
Quote from: FFatPatt on August 23, 2006, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: phillywin2k5 on August 23, 2006, 10:15:49 AM
Eagles will trade for Duce with a condition DP either before or after Fridays game, BANK ON IT!
No, they won't. It's much more likely they'd use the game to see if he has anything left in the tank.
actually from the reports he looks good in preseason so far
What reports?
Jesus farging christ is it September 10th yet?
Get Duce. I would be very pleased to see him return.
Just a little reminder:
Quote from: SD_Eagle on August 22, 2006, 08:50:47 PM
And FYI up to this point I've refused to do the whole sponsorship thing, but if Duce were to become an Eagle again I'm claiming dibs.
I found this amusing:
Len Pasquarelli has Pinkston's Back (http://www.profootballtalk.com/LenCut.mp3)
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 23, 2006, 09:10:28 AM
more like retooling year....the eagles have too much talent and too good a qb to be rebuilding right now...its a shame tho that they are wasting mcnabbs talents at this stage in his career by ignoring major needs
That is exactly what's so incredibly frustrating.
Moulds
Walker
Randel El
Lelie
Jerevicius
etc....
ANY of these guys could have helped this WR corps in some form or another not look like the total sack of shtein it looks like now. Some guys I know the Eagles went after... some I know they just ignored. But my question is, how hard were you really looking at the position when ALL of them slip through your hands for one reason or another. It's not like we're cool at WR and "if one happened to fall into our laps, then cool"... we NEEDED to add a quality player at the position... and they were there to be had. If they had to overpay a little to ensure they got a guy they needed, so be it. I would think the $100 million investment they made in McNabb would prove to be worth it. Instead, one after another, we watch these guys go to other contenders... contenders on our schedule... contenders in our division.
Infuriating.
We meaning as fans needed another WR. Clearly, the FO doesn't think so. When they really want someone, like Kearse, Howard, TO, Runyan, they have been aggressive about going out there and getting him.
So, they either feel the guys they have can perform well enough, or that the available guys weren't an improvement, or that WRs are just a set of hands and any old guy will do (I don't believe the last, or they wouldn't have been so hot on TO).
Are Len and Todd going out or something... why would he get so defensive about Todd Pinkston?
Dunno about Len, but I tend to get defensive about Pink because he gets a bad rap. Fools fix on a couple clips where he pulls up on an uncatchable pass, and ignore the value he brought to the team. He stretched the field well, was durable despite his diminutive frame, blocked as well as could be asked of him, etc. But I gave up that fight awhile ago. Screw it..people wanna hate on Pink, let 'em.
Besides, Pink is done. You don't come back from that injury so well, at least not the year after it happens.
how do you defend him playing like a bitch in the NFCCG against Carolina?
Quote from: MadMarchHare on August 23, 2006, 02:14:16 PM
We meaning as fans needed another WR. Clearly, the FO doesn't think so.
they're wrong.
Quote from: Lil' Miss SunMo on August 23, 2006, 02:51:58 PM
how do you defend him playing like a bitch in the NFCCG against Carolina?
I don't. It can't be done.
But to be fair, he was hardly alone in the "playing like a bitch" category for that game. In fact, there were only a couple players who didn't punk out on that miserable day.
yeah, you're right. he's not the only one, but for me he's the most memorable. i agree with some of what you say though.
The Carolina debacle was about as bad as it gets as a fan.
They shouldn't have gotten there to begin with, but still, what a disappointment.
PS: The Tampa game was worse. Way worse.
I'm just shocked that Len was so insulted my the name Stinkston, that he refused to give an interview. hahahah
Quote from: phillywestbrook36 on August 23, 2006, 04:22:31 PM
I'm just shocked that Len was so insulted my the name Stinkston, that he refused to give an interview. hahahah
I don't think it was the name itself, probably more the mentality of the radio guys with Down's.
Again... the part that gets me is that as bad as the Carolina/Tampa debacles were... why are the Eagles leaving themselves open for it to happen all over again?
Quote from: EagleFeva on August 23, 2006, 05:32:59 PM
Again... the part that gets me is that as bad as the Carolina/Tampa debacles were... why are the Eagles leaving themselves open for it to happen all over again?
They aren't. They're making sure the team isn't good enough to be put in that spot again.
:yay
wow, looks like lenny P really has a crush on our boy todd.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/LenCut.mp3
ah, i see that's been posted already.
Len is boys with Todd's agent. So he'll defend Todd and suck some balls to get insider info.
Quote from: EagleFeva on August 23, 2006, 05:32:59 PM
Again... the part that gets me is that as bad as the Carolina/Tampa debacles were... why are the Eagles leaving themselves open for it to happen all over again?
Good question, and logically I can't think of a good reason. The only thing I can think of is after seeing Baskett in practice every day, they really think he's going to be a player. If not that, then it's cheapness or stubborness. As for the RBs, I do think they will add one. I think there is a much higher probability that they add a RB than a WR.
But if Pinkston can't make it through friday's game, and they don't get a receiver, then it will be the biggest debacle of a decision this FO has made since letting Trotter go.
Andy Reid was on WIP with Eskin a bit ago, and here is some of the stuff he said:
- They talked to Denver about Lelie, but that's nothing new because it's every team's due diligence to constantly talk to all teams about players. The talks did not get serious with Denver.
- They brought in Stephen Davis to see what he can bring. Andy said he knows that he is a good runner and can receive well, so they brought him in to see what he was about. Andy didn't shut down the chance of him coming here. In fact, with the way he said it, he sounded like he had a lot of interest in Davis. But when Howard asked about his physical, he stuttered for a second before he simply said that he did a good job with it. Didn't sound very convincing, but that is just a personal hunch.
- He kept dodging questions about Perry being on the outs, which probably means he's gone. When asked about Perry fighting for a job, he said every player on the roster is still fighting for a job, it's not necessarily just Perry. Yeah... right Andy.
- Buckhalter will start at RB on friday with the first team. Andy wants a good hard look at how he does he said. Andy said he'll use him quite a bit. Andy also said he wants to evaluate all the RBs before they make any decisions about Davis or anyone.
- He said he understands how the fans feel about the receivers. He said the fans haven't seen some of the young guys in meaningful regular season games yet, so he fully understands their worry. Eskin asked him what he can say to the fans to convince them they are good enough, and Andy said he's not one to be cocky, but come down to the Linc and you'll see what they are made of.
- Didn't rule out getting a receiver, but said they are satisfied with their current guys. He said the same thing about RB, but sounded like he actually meant it with WR, and it didn't sound as much so when he said it about RB.
- He said Todd Pinkston will probably play, but hasn't made the final decision yet. He won't start, Baskett will start. Pinkston will get worked in slowly.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 23, 2006, 06:05:31 PM
said he's not one to be cocky, but come down to the Linc and you'll see what they are made of.
oh dont worry, I'll be there Andy. You just make sure you have your stud WR's ready.
Quote from: MURP on August 23, 2006, 06:14:42 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 23, 2006, 06:05:31 PM
said he's not one to be cocky, but come down to the Linc and you'll see what they are made of.
oh dont worry, I'll be there Andy. You just make sure you have your stud WR's ready.
Lucky bastich.
Quote from: MURP on August 23, 2006, 06:14:42 PM
oh dont worry, I'll be there Andy. You just make sure you have your stud WR's ready.
Ha!
Quote from: MURP on August 23, 2006, 06:14:42 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 23, 2006, 06:05:31 PM
said he's not one to be cocky, but come down to the Linc and you'll see what they are made of.
oh dont worry, I'll be there Andy. You just make sure you have your stud WR's ready.
I second that, lets see what they can do when Osi and Strahan are coming around the corner, can they get open within 3 seconds?
Bah. William Thomas is the best rookie LT ever.
It was obviously time for Dave to resort to another TRUST THE FO (http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=53846) boilerplate piece.
the main argument with lelie is that hes simply not that good...and while i would say lelie is still better than most and as good as any of the wr's the eagles have i accept that argument since i dont think hes anything special
but
what makes me wanna murder is when the apologists say that lelie isnt anything special and at the same time try to defend the eagle wr's...you cant kill lelie AND defend the eagle wr's...its effin ridiculous
its either a) the eagles wr's are atrocious but lelie wouldnt help them; dont get him or b) lelie isnt great but hed definitely help the eagles; get him
Lelie sucks.
Adding a subpar player to a position where there are question marks doesn't improve the team, IGY. It only ensures that the players as a group at the position will remain mediocre.
We have no idea what Avant, Baskett, Brown, Gaffney et al. will produce during the season. We know Lelie won't produce more than Todd Pinkston. Do you really want to add a subpar, one-trick-pony to the mix?
i want to imporve the position and lelie does that
hes a proven albeit not great nfl wr
hes far better than any wr they have minus reggie
and id rather take my chances on a change of scenery making lelie better than i would on a undrafted free agent a guy with a blown up achilles and greg lewis
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 08:30:38 AM
Lelie sucks.
Adding a subpar player to a position where there are question marks doesn't improve the team, IGY. It only ensures that the players as a group at the position will remain mediocre.
We have no idea what Avant, Baskett, Brown, Gaffney et al. will produce during the season. We know Lelie won't produce more than Todd Pinkston. Do you really want to add a subpar, one-trick-pony to the mix?
Aside from Brown what WR on this roster would you take over Lelie?
rome is a FO shill
i love how we dont know what gaffney is going to do but lelie 'sucks'
Quote from: SD_Eagle on August 24, 2006, 08:40:07 AMAside from Brown what WR on this roster would you take over Lelie?
Difficulty: you can't answer Hank.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 08:30:38 AM
We know Lelie won't produce more than Todd Pinkston.
who knows this?
from what i can recall, lelie has two healthy achilles tendons.
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 24, 2006, 08:35:38 AM
i want to imporve the position and lelie does that
hes a proven albeit not great nfl wr
hes far better than any wr they have minus reggie
and id rather take my chances on a change of scenery making lelie better than i would on a undrafted free agent a guy with a blown up achilles and greg lewis
Agree to disagree, I suppose.
igy lover.
Quote from: Diomedes on August 24, 2006, 08:42:48 AM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on August 24, 2006, 08:40:07 AMAside from Brown what WR on this roster would you take over Lelie?
Difficulty: you can't answer Hank.
Actually, I would take anyone one of the receivers over Lelie because I think he's a bitch ass flag.
Quote from: phattymatty on August 24, 2006, 10:14:13 AM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 08:30:38 AM
We know Lelie won't produce more than Todd Pinkston.
who knows this?
from what i can recall, lelie has two healthy achilles tendons.
I have to agree. That's one of Jerome99's most ridiculous comments to date.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 08:30:38 AM
Lelie sucks.
Adding a subpar player to a position where there are question marks doesn't improve the team, IGY. It only ensures that the players as a group at the position will remain mediocre.
We have no idea what Avant, Baskett, Brown, Gaffney et al. will produce during the season. We know Lelie won't produce more than Todd Pinkston. Do you really want to add a subpar, one-trick-pony to the mix?
What in the world?
Are you saying the one-trick pony with two healthy legs won't produce more than the one trick pony with a busted achilles?
Who will be this team's deep threat, Rome? What we DO know about Avant, Basket, Gaffney is that none of them are considered burners. You saw how the passing game changed without a deep threat last year. I guess you're convinced that Pinkston will come back 100% with all of his speed, showing no ill effects of his injury. That is the ONLY scenario where Lelie cannot benefit this team... and even then, it's debateable because Pinkston on his best day is not as good as Lelie.
You guys aren't really that thick, are you?
I meant Lelie wouldn't produce more than a healthy Todd Pinkston.
but he's not healthy, so it's not an arguement to be made right now
Why aren't those of you who are calling for Mr. Mediocre at least willing to see what the guys on the roster currently have to offer before panicking and calling for the Eagles to pick up other players?
It's so farging easy to say "get Lelie" or "get Stallworth" without giving any thought to what the guys on the team right now might produce.
It's sad, really.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 01:18:24 PM
Why aren't those of you who are calling for Mr. Mediocre at least willing to see what the guys on the roster currently have to offer before panicking and calling for the Eagles to pick up other players?
It's so farging easy to say "get Lelie" or "get Stallworth" without giving any thought to what the guys on the team right now might produce.
It's sad, really.
So, by your logic, the current receiving corps needs to absolutely prove that they suck in a regular-season setting before the Eagles should do anything to shure up the position?
The fact that an undrafted rookie has taken over a starting role should be enough to prove that.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 23, 2006, 06:05:31 PM
- He said he understands how the fans feel about the receivers. He said the fans haven't seen some of the young guys in meaningful regular season games yet, so he fully understands their worry. Eskin asked him what he can say to the fans to convince them they are good enough, and Andy said he's not one to be cocky, but come down to the Linc and you'll see what they are made of.
I didn't catch this at first but I realized that no one has seen the young recievers in meaningful games yet. Including Andy. We've all seen Reggie Brown and know what he can do and we've all seen Greg Lewis and know what he can (can't) do. Everyone else is basically a mystery......to the fans and coaching staff when it comes to having seen them in regular season action.
Well, we wouldn't want to add a Lelie or Stallworth before giving the coaching staff every opportunity to get a long look at J.J. Outlaw and Bill Sampy.
ive seen all i need to of hank baskett....anyone whos watched him even once could tell you exactly what he cant and can do...except for andy of course
but andy would just love to have a udfa AND a guy he traded for win a starting job and be successful
Quote from: FFatPatt on August 24, 2006, 01:21:21 PM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 01:18:24 PM
Why aren't those of you who are calling for Mr. Mediocre at least willing to see what the guys on the roster currently have to offer before panicking and calling for the Eagles to pick up other players?
It's so farging easy to say "get Lelie" or "get Stallworth" without giving any thought to what the guys on the team right now might produce.
It's sad, really.
So, by your logic, the current receiving corps needs to absolutely prove that they suck in a regular-season setting before the Eagles should do anything to shure up the position?
The fact that an undrafted rookie has taken over a starting role should be enough to prove that.
No. What I mean is, the current crop needs to prove they can get the job done first. They don't need to prove that they can fail. Why are YOU assuming that they're going to fail?
As far as Baskett goes, the fact that he's an UDFA is irrelevent. He's earned the job through hard work, by demonstrating his skills on the field, and by learning the offense quicker than anyone else has ever learned it.
Lelie, on the other hand, wouldn't even put the pads on in Denver and fight for his starting job. Yeah, that's the kind of player I want on my team. A gutless Hoyda who when faced with a challenge takes his ball and goes home.
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 24, 2006, 01:39:04 PM
ive seen all i need to of hank baskett....anyone whos watched him even once could tell you exactly what he cant and can do...except for andy of course
but andy would just love to have a udfa AND a guy he traded for win a starting job and be successful
whats Andy Reids favorite song---"I'll be your hero"
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 01:40:35 PM
No. What I mean is, the current crop needs to prove they can get the job done first. They don't need to prove that they can fail. Why are YOU assuming that they're going to fail?
Define failure. See, I think they will prove to be no better than near the top of the bottom half of WR corps in the NFL - High teens to early 20's by comparison to other NFL teams. Why is that OK? It shouldn't be.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 01:40:35 PM
As far as Baskett goes, the fact that he's an UDFA is irrelevent. He's earned the job through hard work, by demonstrating his skills on the field, and by learning the offense quicker than anyone else has ever learned it.
It absolutely is relevant. Name the last Super Bowl winning team that started a rookie at WR. How about the last one that started an undrafted rookie at WR? The fact is that with the complexity of the Eagles offense and the nuances a guy needs to learn to go from college to the pros, no rookie, let alone one passed up by every team over and over again in the draft, should be able to beat out good competition to start at WR on a Super Bowl-contending team. The fact of the matter is that the Eagles offered up none of this "good" competition for Baskett.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 01:40:35 PM
Lelie, on the other hand, wouldn't even put the pads on in Denver and fight for his starting job. Yeah, that's the kind of player I want on my team. A gutless Hoyda who when faced with a challenge takes his ball and goes home.
We have a gutless Hoyda with a game similar to Lelie's, only he's not healthy as Lelie is.
What I mean is, the current crop needs to prove they can get the job done first.
i laugh at this because the idea that a whole position has to prove itself makes me sick...i could see one guy like greg lewis a couple years ago having to prove himself....but a whole effin position having to do it is pathetic
as for baskett get off the dills....im sure hes a hardworker and all around good guy but he made the team mostly because the position he tried out for SUCKS
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 01:40:35 PM
Why are YOU assuming that they're going to fail?
Reid's going on his 8th year as our HC, and aside from the year TO was taking his meds. we fans have been unhappy with the slop he's thrown out there at WR. What do YOU see this year that's any different? I see:
A 2nd year guy with unlimited potential
A bunch of rookies with some potential
A gimpy pole who relies on speed to stretch the field but clearly won't have that this season
A slot possession receiver who is struggling to learn the offense
Call me a pessimist, but the above isn't exactly a recipe for a great WR core.
obviously we're all retards. it's so sad.
i'm changing my mind. i'd rather wait until next year to get another WR.
the season's already a waste anyway, with bunkley's holdout and all.
You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.
How's that?
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 01:52:14 PM
You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.
How's that?
That's great, Dave.
Yeah, the only thing missing is the tagline, "I'm going to trust the FO."
You guys are right. I should have faith in you and your mindless negativity than the front office and coaching staff who won 11 or more games five years in a row.
PS. Pinkston role on the Eagles in Madden 07 is as the injury prone player, since his toughness and injury have fallen below a certain number... :-p
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 02:19:15 PM
You guys are right. I should have faith in you and your mindless negativity than the front office and coaching staff who won 11 or more games five years in a row.
It's hilarious that you're calling it "mindless" negativity when your support/positivity is clearly mindless. I have been more than willing to give this front office its due in the past and today, but I look at each decision and situation separately. Whereas, it's obvious you mindlessly assume that every decision they make is stellar simply because they put a good run together for 5 straight years.
Pull your head out of your ass and take each decision and each situation for what it is. By your logic, Donovan McNabb could never have a bad game because he's a great QB. Meaning, your logic sucks.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 02:19:15 PM
You guys are right. I should have faith in you and your mindless negativity than the front office and coaching staff who won 11 or more games five years in a row.
think why there is negativity Rome. is it that everyone is just a cynic? are you being overly optomistic just so you can prove evryone wrong if they do fantastic?
Or...can you not see the talent we have compared to others in our division? Nobody is saying you have to agree with everyone else, but cmon--talent prevails in this league not crossing your fingers and hoping. but hey...keep on rootin on...I know I will
As I said before, why does the FO have so much confidence in these guys? I don't know why they didn't try harder to get Moulds or Walker or Lelie, when they got a loser (Lewis) and total unknowns (everyone else) on their roster. Maybe they didn't think that those guys could significantly improve over what we have. Maybe they didn't want to pay that much money, or had character issues. Who knows.
What I do know is they're taking a big gamble with this season, if as McNabb has said they expect to be a SB team. At this point they have to say they're fine.
From my perspective it's a win-win. Either that confidence is justified, they have a terrific season, and maybe get the Lombardi. Or, they go 6-10 again (or worse) and I get my shot at season tickets which I can rape people for on RazorGator. Things are looking up. :yay
lol
Andy has taken us within 3pts of a Superbowl win, and in the playoffs for 6 of his 8 years.
Until proven otherwise In Andy I Trust (but PLEASE bring in another RB for depth)
I honestly think this team is, right now, with no major injuries, good enough to lose the NFCCG.
I don't know GF. Thrash, Pinkston, and Mitchell had proven their ability to lose the NFCCG. These guys still got something to prove.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on August 24, 2006, 08:40:07 AM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 24, 2006, 08:30:38 AM
Lelie sucks.
Adding a subpar player to a position where there are question marks doesn't improve the team, IGY. It only ensures that the players as a group at the position will remain mediocre.
We have no idea what Avant, Baskett, Brown, Gaffney et al. will produce during the season. We know Lelie won't produce more than Todd Pinkston. Do you really want to add a subpar, one-trick-pony to the mix?
Aside from Brown what WR on this roster would you take over Lelie?
I'm not saying Baskett is all that, but if Baskett starts, I bet you he has better numbers than Lelie in Atlanta this year.
I'm not saying Baskett is all that, but if Baskett starts, I bet you he has better numbers than Lelie in Atlanta this year.
if that even happens and i dont think it will it would be because vick is piece of shtein
really tho im not even sure why youd bring that up as the only thing that matters is if lelie would be better on the eagles than baskett and the answer to that is most definitely yes
It's a definite possibility, but I don't think it's a etched in stone. Hank Baskett is an unknown who had a great camp, so for all we know he can come out and have a very good season.
I've said before I'd take Lelie here, but not for a 3rd round pick. There are other guys out there who I think are better players than Lelie. It's just a matter of the Eagles going out and getting them. Again, if they go into the season with what they currently have at RB and WR, then I will shred them. Until then I have to assume they aren't that clueless.
get used to it. it's the last preseason game tomorrow. what we have now is what we're starting the season with. unless we pick up stephen davis, but other than that there will be nothing.
I still think there is a decent chance they get a receiver. They really can't be stupid enough to go in with what is currently on the roster. If they don't, then it will be a travesty.
we said that every season before TO came to town.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 04:29:45 PM
I still think there is a decent chance they get a receiver. They really can't be stupid enough to go in with what is currently on the roster. If they don't, then it will be a travesty.
You must live in a different world than the rest of us. This receiver corps is what we will have for the opening game.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 04:29:45 PM
I still think there is a decent chance they get a receiver. They really can't be stupid enough to go in with what is currently on the roster. If they don't, then it will be a travesty.
are you brand new to being an eagles fan?
so they cant be so stupid to go with what they have
and what they have doesnt need lelie
but they are going to go out and imporve what they have btwn now and sept 12
got it
Quote from: MURP on August 24, 2006, 04:30:19 PM
we said that every season before TO came to town.
The difference now is that they finally realized you need people who can make plays at receiver after their receivers lost them the Carolina game.
The difference now is that they finally realized you need people who can make plays at receiver after their receivers lost them the Carolina game
you have to be a parody poster
or the dumbest person on the planet
I thought for a long time that he had to be a clone. Now I realize he's just one of several idiots sent straight from hell to torment me.
People should not be allowed to be this stupid and live.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 04:36:34 PM
Quote from: MURP on August 24, 2006, 04:30:19 PM
we said that every season before TO came to town.
The difference now is that they finally realized you need people who can make plays at receiver after their receivers lost them the Carolina game.
which totally explains why they traded for Hank Baskett!!!!%*(@#^%&*!!!!
Quote from: rjs246 on August 24, 2006, 04:39:40 PM
People should not be allowed to be this stupid and live.
but it seems to cruel to put them down, thus the conundrum
They went out and got TO didn't they? That tells me they know you can't go in with slop at receiver and win championships. You don't need pro bowlers, but you can't win with slop either.
I think the issue with the Eagles is this. I think they all realize they need help at receiver, and they want to add a receiver. But I don't think they'll part with anything of value to get one. So I guess my gripe with the Eagles is the cheapness, not the stubborness. All indications were they wanted Lelie, but wouldn't go higher than a 4th. So I guess it comes down to whether or not they can get a contributor on the cheap.
We also are going to have to cut some quality defensive lineman over the next couple weeks. I still think some of them can be used as trade bait. McDougle, Thomas, Rayburn. One of those guys could go.
Bunkley, how on August 24th do you now say that the Eagles realize they need a f-in receiver? Do you honestly think their holding out for a surprise party?
where do you come from
This isn't the WR corp the Eagles are going into the season with. Somebody is bound to get hurt in this game.
which brings me to the question of the day:
How far does Pinkston run in the next game?
1) 1 quarter
2) 2 quarters
3) gets hurt in one of the two quarters and leaves the game--which he will be cut
4) makes team by the skin of his achilles
Quote from: reese125 on August 24, 2006, 05:45:30 PM
Bunkley, how on August 24th do you now say that the Eagles realize they need a f-in receiver? Do you honestly think their holding out for a surprise party?
where do you come from
They are a professional organization. If the fans and writers see it, then they have to see it. I'm not the only one who thinks they'll pick up a receiver. I've seen a lot of people agree with me in that regard. I do think they'll bring somebody in if Pinkston doesn't calm Andy's concerns, and I don't think he will. I think tomorrow night Pinkston is going to go out there and play a few plays and limp off the field, and then I think that will be it for Pinkston for this season.
They are holding out for Pinkston, which is one of the reasons they didn't get a receiver yet. It may sound stupid, but remember it's a business. You don't go out and spend something and get a receiver if you aren't absolutely 100% sure Pinkston can't play. They have to make sure.
So you're saying that you've found some other idiots who think that their opinions of the team's players will have some impact on what the front office and personel people do?
Why don't you go talk to them for a while? Thanks.
The FO doesn't give a shtein what us fans think or what writers think obviously. But they have to see the same things we see. It's impossible not to see it.
Pinkston's peformance tomorrow night is going to have a huge influence on whether or not they get a receiver. If Pinkston plays well they probably won't get one. My only worry is, this kind of thing can creep up during the regular season.
I hate to pile on, but you post way too much Bunk. Ease off, for farg sake.
i used to think like Bunkley...
when I was 7
Quote from: Diomedes on August 24, 2006, 06:53:46 PM
I hate to pile on, but you post way too much Bunk. Ease off, for farg sake.
Pile on as much as you want. A little hating has never bothered me. I've been trashed on ere since day one pretty much. But all I can do is give my opinions. I can't control whether or not people agree with them.
When EVERYONE disagrees with your opinions, you're wrong.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 07:00:35 PMPile on as much as you want. A little hating has never bothered me. I've been trashed on ere since day one pretty much. But all I can do is give my opinions. I can't control whether or not people agree with them.
Could you give less of them, with fewer words? That would be great.
No can do Dio. Sorry.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 06:44:12 PM
The FO doesn't give a shtein what us fans think or what writers think obviously. But they have to see the same things we see. It's impossible not to see it.
Pinkston's peformance tomorrow night is going to have a huge influence on whether or not they get a receiver. If Pinkston plays well they probably won't get one. My only worry is, this kind of thing can creep up during the regular season.
On August 24th... you're still sitting here saying that the Eagles are gonna add a WR. Unbelievable.
OK... tomorrow night, when Pinkston goes out there and shows that he's nowhere close to being ready to play the season... What stud WR do you suppose is sitting out there just waiting for the Eagles to grab that is going to make a bit of difference?
Are you gonna try to sell me on Kevin Johnson again?
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 07:05:13 PM
No can do Dio. Sorry.
You could at least try brevity out. It's a hoot!!
Although theres maybe a 5% chance of it happening, there were rumors of Stallworth to the Eagles. I would love that, but I wouldnt count on it.
Quote from: EagleFeva on August 24, 2006, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 06:44:12 PM
The FO doesn't give a shtein what us fans think or what writers think obviously. But they have to see the same things we see. It's impossible not to see it.
Pinkston's peformance tomorrow night is going to have a huge influence on whether or not they get a receiver. If Pinkston plays well they probably won't get one. My only worry is, this kind of thing can creep up during the regular season.
On August 24th... you're still sitting here saying that the Eagles are gonna add a WR. Unbelievable.
OK... tomorrow night, when Pinkston goes out there and shows that he's nowhere close to being ready to play the season... What stud WR do you suppose is sitting out there just waiting for the Eagles to grab that is going to make a bit of difference?
Are you gonna try to sell me on Kevin Johnson again?
I never said I wanted Johnson. In fact I said I didn't want him.
You have heard the same rumors that I have. I don't know about difference makers, but there are guys that could shake loose who could contribute.
Quote from: Dillen37 on August 24, 2006, 07:08:28 PM
Although theres maybe a 5% chance of it happening, there were rumors of Stallworth to the Eagles. I would love that, but I wouldnt count on it.
that would be great, and even if we assume the impossible and they actually did that, you couldn't expect much from the guy. he'd need to learn the offense and that would take forever because he wouldn't have had the advantage of any mini-camps or training camp to learn the offense. that's why it's so infuriating that they didn't add anyone, even if they do it now, because anyone they add now will be useless for at least 2/3 of the season
I'd like Stallworth because of two things.
1) It shows they actually care about the WR group and want to improve it.
2) He's one of those guys that doesnt need to know the entire playbook right away to make an impact(but obviously its an advantage), give him a slant, drag or screen and let him run after the catch.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 07:11:55 PM
Quote from: EagleFeva on August 24, 2006, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 06:44:12 PM
The FO doesn't give a shtein what us fans think or what writers think obviously. But they have to see the same things we see. It's impossible not to see it.
Pinkston's peformance tomorrow night is going to have a huge influence on whether or not they get a receiver. If Pinkston plays well they probably won't get one. My only worry is, this kind of thing can creep up during the regular season.
On August 24th... you're still sitting here saying that the Eagles are gonna add a WR. Unbelievable.
OK... tomorrow night, when Pinkston goes out there and shows that he's nowhere close to being ready to play the season... What stud WR do you suppose is sitting out there just waiting for the Eagles to grab that is going to make a bit of difference?
Are you gonna try to sell me on Kevin Johnson again?
I never said I wanted Johnson. In fact I said I didn't want him.
You have heard the same rumors that I have. I don't know about difference makers, but there are guys that could shake loose who could contribute.
Again... August 24th. Who?
Quote from: Dillen37 on August 24, 2006, 07:14:10 PM
I'd like Stallworth because of two things.
1) It shows they actually care about the WR group and want to improve it.
2) He's one of those guys that doesnt need to know the entire playbook (but obviously its an advantage), give him a slant, drag or screen and let him run after the catch.
Exactly.
Another possibility is Justin McCareins. There were rumors that he could get cut or traded. I don't know why, but the rumors are out there. The Eagles really liked him a few years ago. He could be a possibility.
I'd shtein myself if we got Stallworth. The guy has unreal speed and can learn the O as he goes for all I care, at least we'd know help was here.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 07:16:45 PM
Exactly.
Another possibility is Justin McCareins. There were rumors that he could get cut or traded. I don't know why, but the rumors are out there. The Eagles really liked him a few years ago. He could be a possibility.
I'll admit I dont know much about McCareins, but isnt he more of a possession receiver? We have enough of those, but any help is good help I guess.
Quote
Again... August 24th. Who?
Possibilities include:
Stallworth
McCareins
Tyrone Calico
Ike Hilliard
Again, I'd really only want Stallworth or McCareins, but I'm just giving names of guys who could shake free.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on August 24, 2006, 07:19:21 PM
I'd shtein myself if we got Stallworth. The guy has unreal speed and can learn the O as he goes for all I care, at least we'd know help was here.
Ditto... but I'm not even gonna get my hopes up.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 07:16:45 PM
Quote from: Dillen37 on August 24, 2006, 07:14:10 PM
I'd like Stallworth because of two things.
1) It shows they actually care about the WR group and want to improve it.
2) He's one of those guys that doesnt need to know the entire playbook (but obviously its an advantage), give him a slant, drag or screen and let him run after the catch.
[/b]
Exactly.
Another possibility is Justin McCareins. There were rumors that he could get cut or traded. I don't know why, but the rumors are out there. The Eagles really liked him a few years ago. He could be a possibility.
1) if only it was that easy to grab any receiver who didnt know the west coast offense. you have to know the playbook or you screw up the plays for the other receivers. west coast looks for west coast. I dont think the Eagles are looking for the 2 play guy and your done for the day
2) McCareins? pack up the pole and tackle box guy, its getting way too dark to fish off the bridge
Quote from: Dillen37 on August 24, 2006, 07:21:33 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 07:16:45 PM
Exactly.
Another possibility is Justin McCareins. There were rumors that he could get cut or traded. I don't know why, but the rumors are out there. The Eagles really liked him a few years ago. He could be a possibility.
I'll admit I dont know much about McCareins, but isnt he more of a possession receiver? We have enough of those, but any help is good help I guess.
He's not a blazer, but he can get downfield some. If nothing else, he's proven he can be a solid receiver, in case Baskett hits a rookie wall and loses confidence early.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 07:23:24 PM
Quote
Again... August 24th. Who?
Possibilities include:
Stallworth
McCareins
Tyrone Calico
Ike Hilliard
Again, I'd really only want Stallworth or McCareins, but I'm just giving names of guys who could shake free.
Realistically none of those are a possibility. In fact, I'm willing to bet we go into the season with what we have now.
Quote from: reese125 on August 24, 2006, 07:24:44 PM
1) if only it was that easy to grab any receiver who didnt know the west coast offense. you have to know the playbook or you screw up the plays for the other receivers. west coast looks for west coast. I dont think the Eagles are looking for the 2 play guy and your done for the day
What would you rather have, a guy who can make an impact every time he touches the ball but screws up every once and awhile, or Todd Pinkston or Hank Baskett? No matter what, the #2 guy is going to have some issues.
Quote from: Dillen37 on August 24, 2006, 07:21:33 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 07:16:45 PM
Exactly.
Another possibility is Justin McCareins. There were rumors that he could get cut or traded. I don't know why, but the rumors are out there. The Eagles really liked him a few years ago. He could be a possibility.
I'll admit I dont know much about McCareins, but isnt he more of a possession receiver? We have enough of those, but any help is good help I guess.
I remember the Eagles boards going nuts Lelie-style for him a few years ago & never hearing a peep from him once he signed with the Jets. He's seems like a serviceable player, though nothing spectacular.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 07:23:24 PM
Quote
Again... August 24th. Who?
Possibilities include:
Stallworth
McCareins
Tyrone Calico
Ike Hilliard
Again, I'd really only want Stallworth or McCareins, but I'm just giving names of guys who could shake free.
I guess you're right in that they're possibilities. Possibilities slightly smaller than Terrell Owens making his heroic, long-awaited return to Philly.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on August 24, 2006, 07:25:17 PM
Realistically none of those are a possibility. In fact, I'm willing to bet we go into the season with what we have now.
Pretty much. Only guy I see them adding is Duce, maybe.
We very well could. In fact, you are probably right. The chances are that we do go into the season with what we have.
But I'm still holding out hope that we do go out and get help. I think chances are they won't, but I'm still holding out hope.
I cant believe nobody added Charles Rogers to this list--I mean how well-mannered he has been and all
Quote from: Dillen37 on August 24, 2006, 07:27:19 PMNo matter what, the #2 guy is going to have some issues.
Yep.
If they don't go out and add any receiver help, then the only thing we can do is hope that the FO knows what they are doing and these guys can actually play in meaningful games. I won't trash the FO until they are proven wrong, because more often than not, they are proven right.
So if we don't get a receiver, and the guys go out in week 1 and play well against the Texans you won't hear a complaint from me. But if they go out and struggle and can't get open, then they dug their grave and they'll have to lay in it.
If they don't go out and add any receiver help, then the only thing we can do is hope that the FO knows what they are doing and these guys can actually play in meaningful games. I won't trash the FO until they are proven wrong
you said a few pages ago that you would shred them if they didnt add a wr before the season starts...now you wont criticize them until they are proven wrong...which is it...like i said you have no idea what youre saying...you write so people can reply to you and give you net attention...youre an attention seeking moron
You seem to know a whole lot about me, even though you never met me. You are a farging baby. All you do is constantly complain about the FO, and me. Grow up. You don't know anything about me.
Now, I don't believe I specified that I'd rip the FO before the season. I did say that I'd trash them, and I will. But I have to give these guys a chance to prove themselves first. As should everyone.
You are the attention whore not me. See, I don't need to trash posters to try to make a name for myself. I just come here to talk football and other things.
Bunkley78 = Andy from the EMB
Gotta be.
Happy to say, I have no idea what you're talking about.
IGY calling Bunkley78 an attention whore...
Bunkley78 saying, "nuh uh, YOU'RE the attention whore"...
This is a great conversation.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 24, 2006, 07:47:55 PM
IGY calling Bunkley78 an attention whore...
Bunkley78 saying, "nuh uh, YOU'RE the attention whore"...
This is a great conversation.
To be fair, they are both right.
Agreed.
I've said before I'd take Lelie here, but not for a 3rd round pick. There are other guys out there who I think are better players than Lelie. It's just a matter of the Eagles going out and getting them. Again, if they go into the season with what they currently have at RB and WR, then I will shred them. Until then I have to assume they aren't that clueless.
That's assuming they don't produce. I was assuming you could come up with that conclusion on your own.
Why would I trash the FO before these guys prove themselves?
Quote from: C cups Charlie on August 24, 2006, 07:48:17 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on August 24, 2006, 07:47:55 PM
IGY calling Bunkley78 an attention whore...
Bunkley78 saying, "nuh uh, YOU'RE the attention whore"...
This is a great conversation.
To be fair, they are both right.
One attention whore, more often than not... seems to have a clue of what he's talking about, though.
someone ban this clown.....PLEASE
and ive never asked for that for anyone...except all the racists on the emb and the mods who support them
If you can't take a difference of an opinion, then message boards aren't the place for you. Stop being such a baby.
My IQ has dropped 15 points in the last 5 minutes reading this.
It isn't your opinion that we all find so irritating. It's the fact that you never let your farging foot off the gas. Jesus christ dude. You post and post and post and post and you contradict yourself and you backpedal and you make excuses and it just never farging stops. You're an idiot and as an idiot you talk yourself into situations where you have to completely reverse field. You're all over the farging map and it's embarrassing.
Go find some 15 year olds and practice arguing with them before you come back here and try to argue with people who actually know how to make a point.
Everyone contradicts themselves once in a while.
You are way overblowing it. For every post that I contradict myself in I could find the same for anyone else on here. Plus, what's wrong with changing your mind on things sometimes anyway? Sometimes my thoughts on things change from day to day. There is nothing wrong with that.
I don't contradict myself more than anyone else. One thing I never do is backpedal and make excuses. I stick to my opinion. My opinion may change, but that is totally different from backpedaling. You know, sometimes people can change their opinions on things. Oh, and that was not a contradiction there. Just so you know.
Holy Lord. Shut up.
You post and post and post and post and you contradict yourself and you backpedal and you make excuses and it just never farging stops. You're an idiot and as an idiot you talk yourself into situations where you have to completely reverse field. You're all over the farging map and it's embarrassing.
exactly and whats more embarrassing than that is he does it on purpose so that every thread will turn into a discussion about his ingornace...i doubt he even really cares about the eagles...its just a topic that he can use to get his net attention...perfect example of this was the other day when he felt as tho a few peiople were getting seriously pissed with him he did a 180 and for about two posts he started talking semi normal
i cant talk because my dumb ass fell into his trap today but if everyone would just not respond to him he would go away....i seriously will never ever again interact with him...and if i do i will ban myself for life
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 24, 2006, 08:06:07 PM
i cant talk because my dumb ass fell into his trap today but if everyone would just not respond to him he would go away....i seriously will never ever again interact with him...and if i do i will ban myself for life
Don't make promises you can't keep.
oh it will be all too easy
I liked it better when you didn't interact with me to be honest. Enjoy yourself.
Back to the topic.
GET DUCE!
QuoteBunkley78 08:12:00 PM Posting in The Running Backs, Wide Receivers and other offensive questionmarks....
Shocking.
I'll take Duce, but I'd rather have Stephen Davis. As beat up as Davis has been lately, Duce has been even moreso, and might be in even worse shape than Davis.
I hope I didn't contradict myself there or ask for attention. Sorry if I did, really.
this message board is crack, and you 5000+ posters are Pooky's best friend--your not going anywhere IGY
Thank god I only have 634 posts.
Ha.
Duce's injuries have been overestimated. He's a stud.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 24, 2006, 08:13:02 PM
QuoteBunkley78 08:12:00 PM Posting in The Running Backs, Wide Receivers and other offensive questionmarks....
Shocking.
ha!
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 08:13:05 PM
I'll take Duce, but I'd rather have Stephen Davis. As beat up as Davis has been lately, Duce has been even moreso, and might be in even worse shape than Davis.
I hope I didn't contradict myself there or ask for attention. Sorry if I did, really.
Missed GamesPlayer.....2005.....2006
Davis.......14............3
Staley......6..............11
They've each missed 17 games in the last two years. Davis missed 6 games total in 2004 and 2003, Duce missed none. And honestly, they both have recent injury history. Davis' injury is bad. What Eagle fan would take Davis over Duce?
Also, that last line....seems like its kind of asking for attention.
You making about a post when he's posting is just contributing to the madness.. ;)
At least Duce knows the offense. I don't know how long it would take Davis to get acclimated to the offense here. That's one bright side about Duce, even though I'd rather have Davis, like I said.
Sal Pal on DNL said earlier he doesn't think Duce will be cut. Take it for what it's worth.
davis had microfracture surgery...one of the worst knee injuries you can have as far as long term effect....that alone makes duce a better bet on the injury front
Quote from: Dillen37 on August 24, 2006, 08:17:19 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 08:13:05 PM
I'll take Duce, but I'd rather have Stephen Davis. As beat up as Davis has been lately, Duce has been even moreso, and might be in even worse shape than Davis.
I hope I didn't contradict myself there or ask for attention. Sorry if I did, really.
Missed Games
Player.....2005.....2006
Davis.......14............3
Staley......6..............11
They've each missed 17 games in the last two years. Davis missed 6 games total in 2004 and 2003, Duce missed none.
Also, that last line....seems like its kind of asking for attention.
Do you remember what their injuries were last year? I forgot.
Mash, mash, mash. Score!
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 08:21:30 PM
Do you remember what their injuries were last year? I forgot.
I remember Duce missed the first 4 or 5 games in the beginning of the year because he had knee surgery in the offseason. The other games he missed were just because they didnt activate him, I think. Parker and Bettis were locks to be activated. Hayes is a good STer, and Duce didnt play well after injury. The games he missed at the end of the year were because of poor play and numbers crunch, I think.
Davis had a lot of knee injuries last year, I dont think he tore his ACL, but like igy said, he had microfracture surgery. You dont recover easily from that.
Hmmmm...
Well in that case Duce could very well be healthier. I have not seen him in game action, but supposedly he looks like a fat slob. We'll see tomorrow if he plays.
(http://www.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2006-08-23/0824runningbacks-a.jpg)
Hard to tell there. What do you think?
Fat or not, he's ugly. And you're stupid.
Everyone looks fat in white. And he doesn't look fat. Get Duce!
Quote from: Beermonkey on August 23, 2006, 11:30:14 AM
I found this amusing:
Len Pasquarelli has Pinkston's Back (http://www.profootballtalk.com/LenCut.mp3)
that's absolutely offensive from somebody who makes his living using free speech. the radio guys played it right except for when Len said, "Move on or move out" and guy asked him what he wanted to do. the radio guy should've just said, "Bye fatass" it was funny that Len wanted to move on and move out after they pointed out that an ESPN guy was the one who came up with that nickname.
but for Len to threaten to cut the interview short because they made fun of a player is one of most obnoxious things I've heard in awhile
Who were the hosts?
i don't know, they sounded like dicks, and they no doubt are obnoxious dopes who try to be "edgy" but in this case, they were in the right
Quote from: Lil' Miss SunMo on August 24, 2006, 09:52:32 PM
Quote from: Beermonkey on August 23, 2006, 11:30:14 AM
I found this amusing:
Len Pasquarelli has Pinkston's Back (http://www.profootballtalk.com/LenCut.mp3)
that's absolutely offensive from somebody who makes his living using free speech. the radio guys played it right except for when Len said, "Move on or move out" and guy asked him what he wanted to do. the radio guy should've just said, "Bye fatass" it was funny that Len wanted to move on and move out after they pointed out that an ESPN guy was the one who came up with that nickname.
but for Len to threaten to cut the interview short because they made fun of a player is one of most obnoxious things I've heard in awhile
I agree with that. You don't go onto someone else's radio station and act rude like that. When he said move on or move out, I would've told him to get the farg off my airways. What a loser. He's supposedly boys with Pinkston's agent.
Airways are for pilots. Airwaves are for people that like fart jokes.
(http://www.profootballtalk.com/LenCheer.jpg)
The New England Patriots have given holdout wide receiver Deion Branch a week to seek a trade and negotiate a contract with another team, the Patriots announced Friday. Branch has permission to seek a new team until Sept. 1, next Friday, the team said in a two- sentence statement.
Branch, the 2005 Super Bowl MVP and the team's top receiver, is scheduled to earn $1.045 million this season, the last of his original five-year contract, but he wants a new deal. He has refused to report to the Patriots mandatory preseason mini-camp and its ongoing training camp.
Quote from: General_Failure on August 24, 2006, 10:15:17 PM
Airways are for pilots. Airwaves are for people that like fart jokes.
:-D
Forget Duce and Davis. Like Murph said, Ried isn't gonna' sign any backs. He's going with what he has, like it or not. And really, what kind of improvement would either of them be?? Especially now, this late in the pre-season? Unless Reid could get either of them for next to nothing, like the minimum, forget it, it ain't happening.
Deion Branch, I would love to see in an Eagles uni. But, if he can pick what team he wants to negotiate with, what makes any Dmac basher, especially you igy, think that he would want to come to Philly???
I've been informed today that Reid is going to sign another RB after this game. Branson Mahe.
Quote from: General_Failure on August 25, 2006, 07:45:16 PM
I've been informed today that Reid is going to sign another RB after this game. Branson Mahe.
Oh well, according to half the people here, he'd probably be an upgrade.
He's a shiftier version of Reno. :yay
.........as in he shifts the ball from one hand to the other instead of from one hand to the turf?
We'll see. He's going to start next week.
QuoteRaiders | Crockett on the bubble?
Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:16:15 -0700
Jerry McDonald, of ANG Newspapers, reports Oakland Raiders FB Zack Crockett may not make the final roster.
There's a guy I'd want the Eagles to look at - been a solid goalline back for years.
Another possibility:
QuoteDespite starting two preseason games, Najeh Davenport is on the roster bubble in Green Bay. Multiple reports suggest Ahman Green and Samkon Gado are safe, and Davenport (hip) has now missed back-to-back practices. Green Bay is going with a youth movement, which suggests a younger option like Arliss Beach or Noah Herron will get their third running back spot. 8/23/2006
after seeing Duce last night i think id rather take a flyer on Zack Crockett for a short yardage RB. Duce might even goto the Vikes and Childress
Merrill Reese's "Pro Football Report" show from Manny Brown's @ Neshaminy Mall (http://www.wbcb1490.com/pfr.htm)
This Tuesday's guest is Baskett. You can listen online...
Quote from: General_Failure on August 24, 2006, 10:15:17 PM
Airways are for pilots. Airwaves are for people that like fart jokes.
HEY NOW!!!
Not sure if it was mentioned already, but Adam Schefter suggests the Eagles trade a 2nd-rd pick for Michael Turner (http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9721387) but says they won't because Heckert is dumb and Schefter knows all.....
5'10", 237?
IN
That would be an awesome trade, but why would San Diego even want to do that? If LT were to get hurt they would be even more screwed.
turner>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>buck
problem here is schefter is playing fantasy football in this article...its refreshing to see a writer not post some PTF type rumors but at the same time theres no more substance to this than if i posted on here that the eagles should trade for musa smith (which they should)
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on October 12, 2006, 01:22:08 PM
That would be an awesome trade, but why would San Diego even want to do that? If LT were to get hurt they would be even more screwed.
agreed.
Yeah, I can't see SD wanting to do that at all. It's not like they have a stud sitting behind Turner...just in case.
Of course it isn't feasible. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a fantastic pickup for the Eagles.
Sure, but since we're talking about a move that's never going to happen, why not give up a 5th and Rayburn for LT?
Can we throw Buckhalter and Scott Young in there too?
In that spirit, how about Reno for LT straight up? Let's talk about that idea some, because it would be a fantastic move for the Eagles to make..
I loved Turner coming out of college, He was a beast for northern illinois. Nickname. Michael Turner the Burner! He was ridiculous on NCAA football 2004
Quote from: Diomedes on October 12, 2006, 01:44:42 PM
In that spirit, how about Reno for LT straight up? Let's talk about that idea some, because it would be a fantastic move for the Eagles to make..
They're practically the same player. A RB with pretty good receiving skills.
Mike Turner is a future stud. In the few games I saw him in this year, he's run harder than LT and has alot more power. He's just not as well-rounded as LT. That can come with time. I'd trade for him in a minute.
San Diego should just send LT over for the hell of it.
No way I'd do Reno for LT straight up. They'd have to throw in Jammer and Merriman to make it worthwhile.
What a great idea. Reno for LT, QJ, and SM. In order to make room on the roster, they could trade Buck and Dhani for a couple first day picks, maybe to Dallas.
Trade deadline is only 5 days out...I'm so excited.
Quote from: Diomedes on October 12, 2006, 03:35:30 PM
What a great idea. Reno for LT, QJ, and SM. In order to make room on the roster, they could trade Buck and Dhani for a couple first day picks, maybe to Dallas.
Trade deadline is only 5 days out...I'm so excited.
Maybe we could trade McNabb for a QB who's not so fragile-minded, like Jon Kitna.
*psst...you're not playing the game right.*
give him a break, he's a moron who is happy that one of his homertastic feelings is being proved to actually be true.
ha
Quote from: SunMo on October 12, 2006, 04:05:33 PM
give him a break, he's a moron who is happy that one of his homertastic feelings is being proved to actually be true.
What, I said somewhere that Hank Baskett was awesome?
I can see you read well.
Quote from: Munson on October 12, 2006, 08:22:01 PM
Quote from: SunMo on October 12, 2006, 04:05:33 PM
give him a break, he's a moron who is happy that one of his homertastic feelings is being proved to actually be true.
What, I said somewhere that Hank Baskett was awesome?
I can see you read well.
i can read well, which is why i was commenting on...
QuoteMaybe we could trade McNabb for a QB who's not so fragile-minded, like Jon Kitna.
learn to read, douche.
(http://www.zolknetwork.com/misc/thomas/jump_to_conclusions.jpg)
Quote from: SunMo on October 12, 2006, 08:54:43 PM
Quote from: Munson on October 12, 2006, 08:22:01 PM
Quote from: SunMo on October 12, 2006, 04:05:33 PM
give him a break, he's a moron who is happy that one of his homertastic feelings is being proved to actually be true.
What, I said somewhere that Hank Baskett was awesome?
I can see you read well.
i can read well, which is why i was commenting on...
QuoteMaybe we could trade McNabb for a QB who's not so fragile-minded, like Jon Kitna.
learn to read, douche.
Okay...so...what homertastic feeling did I apparently have that has proved to be true?
As far as I know, I didn't really comment at all in that McNabb being a puss mentally, I just watched the train wreck.
But yeah, I had a homertastic feeling. :yay
Baskett takes rookie of the week honors. (http://www.nfl.com/rookies/vote) First step towards the hall of fame. No idea how he beat out Bush.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 13, 2006, 08:30:17 AM
Baskett takes rookie of the week honors. (http://www.nfl.com/rookies/vote) First step towards the hall of fame. No idea how he beat out Bush.
The fans probably picked Baskett because an undrafted rookie FA up-staged TO during his 'homecoming'.
IGY just got online and voted for him a bunch of times over and over again. He loves him some Hank Baskett.
OHMYGODHANKBASKETT!! :crazy :crazy :crazy