ConcreteBoard

Post 'em when you got 'em.  Here are a few:

• Greg Lewis is not a starting-caliber WR.  This team actually misses what Pinkston brings to the field as a #2.  Can Pinkston and Reggie be starters on a Super Bowl team?  Can Lewis take the skirt off and fight for the ball as the slot receiver?
• Brian Westbrook and/or the offensive line must learn how to get the short yards on 3rd/4th down and less than 2 yards.  It's embarassing how often this offense fails to get any push whatsoever.
• This team needs 2 all-around LB's good enough to stop the run and also play the pass in the nickel package.  Having Trotter out there on pass coverage is not going to be a winning strategy.  Going "cheap" at LB doesn't work if...
• The front four generates nothing on their own.  NOTHING.  We've seen flashes from the overpaid Jevon Kearse, we've seen burst from rookies Trent Cole and Mike Patterson, and guys like Walker, Hollis T, and Rayburn have been solid players in the past.  BUT, either their conditioning is awful, or they just aren't that good.  This team once again will have to use an early pick on a defensive lineman, and they should probably ALSO address the line in free agency.
• With all the other issues, the secondary may simply have to just be better.  I happen to think that with an improved front seven, we'd be surprised at how many coverage problems would go away.

Time's yours.

Couldn't agree more about Greg Lewis. My grandmothers could run better routes than that idiot - one of them has a false hip and the other is dead.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 08:50:06 AMThis team actually misses what Pinkston brings to the field as a #2.

Told you so.

pinky, lewis, etc. are all pretty much useless without a legit #1 wr, imo.

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 06, 2005, 08:54:39 AM
Couldn't agree more about Greg Lewis. My grandmothers could run better routes than that idiot - one of them has a false hip and the other is dead.

I literally laughed out loud at that one.  Good stuff, henchman.

Quote from: Diomedes on December 06, 2005, 09:02:59 AM

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 08:50:06 AMThis team actually misses what Pinkston brings to the field as a #2.

Told you so.

Give yourself a point.  Dio 1, FF 0.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 09:10:10 AMGive yourself a point. Dio 1, FF 0.

I meant y'all, not you FF.  I've been saying all along that Pink is an important piece of this team, and that his loss would hurt.   People judge the guy harshly because he declined to stretch himself out for a couple patently uncatchable balls, and ESPN showed it a million times. 

I'm sick of hearing the excuse "we need more from the front four".  How about the rest of the defense does their freakin job?  Sure, the front four need to improve, but it's not like the other 7 are playing great football.

I'm not so sure we need all that FF.  I think this year has been a major disappointment more because of injuries to key players and also lack of moral/confidence/concentration from the players.  IMO the playcalling has been way off also...offensively the team never adapted to McNabb's injury until it was too late.  Defense- pretty much the same.  Worst its been in years.  What happened to that so called "Attitude" they were going to be playing with this year.  What a joke that has been.  I just hope everyone gets healthy for next year and yes we do address certain positions, but i think more importantly they need to focus and have the confidence to go out and play hard no matter whats going on within the organization. 

meh, Im not sold on Pinkston being important just because the team sucks this year.   If Pinkston were starting at WR right now and everything else was the same I believe the offense would suck just as much. The team needs some attitude to start off with.  The lack of enthusiasm has been apparent since the opening game in Atlanta.     

Sorry Lad, but even the best defensive secondaries cannot cover for 7-8 seconds.  The front four has to more-than-occasionally be able to generate pressure without a blitz, and they've not been doing that at all.

they miss ike, burgess, & simon.

Quote from: Diomedes on December 06, 2005, 09:14:50 AM

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 09:10:10 AMGive yourself a point. Dio 1, FF 0.

I meant y'all, not you FF.  I've been saying all along that Pink is an important piece of this team, and that his loss would hurt.   People judge the guy harshly because he declined to stretch himself out for a couple patently uncatchable balls, and ESPN showed it a million times.

They've really missed his 36 catches this year.

Quote from: mhunt on December 06, 2005, 09:27:00 AM
they miss ike, burgess, & simon.

they don't miss Ike.  maybe on special teams.

You really think the WR we are missing is Pinkston?  We all know he-who-shall-not-be-named is the difference.  Also, I have seen what this team is once McNabb is done, and it ain't pretty.

Quote from: Mad-Lad on December 06, 2005, 09:29:09 AM

Quote from: mhunt on December 06, 2005, 09:27:00 AM
they miss ike, burgess, & simon.

they don't miss Ike.  maybe on special teams.

special teams is exactly where they miss him....and he was a leader in the lockerroom too.

JJ brings it on first and second down, then doesn't dance with the one that brung him on third down. I shouted at the TV when we rushed four on one third and long, then, on the next Seattle third down, I guess I should have been pleased we didn't rush four. Sadly, we rushed three. Maybe this is a tired over-reaction, but I'd be quite happy to see JJ fired this year. He's been flat-out awful and predictable. None more-so than last night.

having a quarterback who doesn't telegraph his throws would be nice.

After watching some of the Colts game this week, I realized that they probably miss Simon more than the other two combined.  Burgess has been nice off the edge in Oakland, but I don't think he'd be any more effective than Cole or Kalu on our front 4.  While Simon has no sacks (unless he got one Sunday), he defenitely was pushing the center of the line into the backfield more often than not.  Darwin Walker has disappeared since the first few games, Patterson is erratic and probably needs to hit the weights, and the other guys are really "insert fat guy here" material.

Still, I don't fault the decision to cut Simon loose when the decision was made.  In hindsight, it didn't work out.

I still don't think matching the contracts for Burgess and/or Ike would have made any difference on this team.

• for all of the bazillions of mid and late round draft picks the eagles cream themselves over every offseason, the lack of depth on this team and absolutely uncalled for and totally disgusting.
• the backup quarterback spot has been completely ignored for years. i know you cannot have 2 probowlers. but to think a team would have a better insurance policy than mike farging mcmahon and koy the holder detmer. neither one of those guys even deserve to be in the league.
• its time to end the "undersized and fast" DE experiment. IT DOES NOT WORK
• right now this team is worse than the 1999 eagles.
• greg lewis sucks
• for as good as trotter is vs the run, he is that bad vs the pass, in fact...almost every god damn linebacker on this team should be cut in the offseason. the outside LBs especially, terrible terrible terrible.

It's bad.  But let's be realistic.  The bad is compounded by the rash of injuries.  We're basically fielding a second or third team squad.  Now, I'm sure the team could tolerate a backup playing here or there without that much of a dropoff-- but when they're all on the field at once, it magnifies the problems exponentially. 

We've lost our probowl QB, both starting WRs, our starting FB (Ritchie to injury, basically), 3/5ths of our starting o-line, our "big" back, our starting corner, a projected starting DE who would be better suited against the run...blah, blah, blah.  There are not many teams that would look good dealing with that.  And that's not even considering the overall pallor from the Owens mess.

Right now we're looking at inferior talent and/or lack of experience...all trying to learn to play together late in the season against teams with actual playoff hopes.

This team has needs...but it's really rough to get an accurate read on that right now because of the situation.

Oh, all that said:  We need at least two starting quality OLBs next year.  That's hurt us since day one.

Get Chad Greenway!

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 09:53:54 AM
It's bad.  But let's be realistic.  The bad is compounded by the rash of injuries.  We're basically fielding a second or third team squad.  Now, I'm sure the team could tolerate a backup playing here or there without that much of a dropoff-- but when they're all on the field at once, it magnifies the problems exponentially. 

We've lost our probowl QB, both starting WRs, our starting FB (Ritchie to injury, basically), 3/5ths of our starting o-line, our "big" back, our starting corner, a projected starting DE who would be better suited against the run...blah, blah, blah.  There are not many teams that would look good dealing with that.  And that's not even considering the overall pallor from the Owens mess.

Right now we're looking at inferior talent and/or lack of experience...all trying to learn to play together late in the season against teams with actual playoff hopes.

This team has needs...but it's really rough to get an accurate read on that right now because of the situation.

while all above is true....the defensive line sucks because of arrogence, not injury. the let two guys walk, and tried to count on a 3rd guy who had yet to be healthy since being drafted.

Well, Burgess had a good year...but come on, nobody was sold on him.  He's never been healthy, either.  And Simon wanted way more than his fat butt was worth.  It's not like they just walked for no reason.

You all make good points, but I think our predictability on both sides of the ball has hurt just as much as playing with all the injuries.  It seems that every team we play against is well prepared to face our "Air Reid" experiment and the blitzing defense.  Could we change it up already?

We need some quality outside linebackers, at least 2 new WRs, hopefully with some experience and talent and a short yardage back that can push a pile and get the tough yards.  I really like Westbrook, but we need someone to compliment his style.

The defensive line is horrid this season.  Eventually, we'll have to address this problem.  Hopefully in this upcoming offseason instead of after Reid gets canned.

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 10:03:10 AM
Well, Burgess had a good year...but come on, nobody was sold on him.  He's never been healthy, either.  And Simon wanted way more than his fat butt was worth.  It's not like they just walked for no reason.

true. but there was no seeable attempt to replace their production after they left.

face it...if burgess was totally inneffective this year, or injured, some people here would be telling us how right the eagles were for letting him walk pointing out his lack of production. how many times did we hear Johnson telling the cameras how good burgess was? mcdougle and buckhalter are never healthy either...but the birds keep them around.

i've said before that this season is a wash, and can be just a bump, and not a new trend. but the eagles, in some areas brought this upon themselves (LB and D-Line).

Draft picks and healing can't give a team "heart" though.  It's pretty bad when the Buddy team from last night called them heartless, gutless and embarrassing.  They never look like they give a damn out there.  How do you come out with a game that big and not show up or care?

It makes a guy wonder if Reid has lost all control of the team, and if the players have lost all respect for him.

Quote from: Wingspan on December 06, 2005, 10:10:04 AM
mcdougle and buckhalter are never healthy either...but the birds keep them around.

The Eagles didn't have to make any serious decisions about those guys, though.

There's serious room for improvement, in many areas...but this season has just been a disaster from start to finish.  It's tough to read it, because it's a little on the ridiculous side.

While I'm not going to go the "window slammed shut, blow the whole team up" route that Salisbury did last night on ESPN, I can't blame everything on TO and injuries.  The depth has sucked for years now and there's a problem with the nonchalant attitude that surrounds these guys...

We can all point to certian area that need improving but there is something terribly wrong with this team and I can't put my finger on it.    Where's the motivation? Where's the heart? How on earth do you get blown out like that on a Monday night at home?
Embarrased.. perplexed...

It was a blowout....but they scored three times directly off of turnovers.  That'll take the wind out of your sails, especially when you know you're playing with third stringers.  I'm not an apologist by any means, but come on.

Maybe the Eagles shouldn't turn the ball over then.  :D

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 10:36:11 AM
It was a blowout....but they scored three times directly off of turnovers.

4, really.  Boulware returned a pick inside the 5, along with the 3 turnovers that were returned for TD's.

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 06, 2005, 10:37:57 AM
Maybe the Eagles shouldn't turn the ball over then.  :D

Good point.

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 10:36:11 AM
It was a blowout....but they scored three times directly off of turnovers.  That'll take the wind out of your sails, especially when you know you're playing with third stringers.  I'm not an apologist by any means, but come on.

i agree, the defense had been playing decently until Ed McMahon gave the Seahawks 14 points, after that they folded the tent.

Everyone will handle it their own way, I guess.  But I don't see the point of stressing about it. 

This season is essentially over.  They've had the Super Bowl hangover, the Owens mess, the rash of injuries to critical players.  It's a bad season.  And it's been so ridiculous that I think it deserves to be treated as a mulligan until it's proven as a trend.

They'll have work to do in the offseason, and it'll be good to evaluate players....  But I don't think we're going to get a real sense of the team again until next year.

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 09:54:34 AM
Oh, all that said:  We need at least two starting quality OLBs next year.  That's hurt us since day one.

Get Peterson and move Dhani back to WIL.

Move Dhani back to the Giants.

Reidme: I dont know why you deleted your post...but i couldnt have said it better myself.

this organization has become a parody of itself.

Quote from: Wingspan on December 06, 2005, 11:06:50 AM
Reidme: I dont know why you deleted your post...but i couldnt have said it better myself.

this organization has become a parody of itself.

He understandably started a new thread with it.

Quote from: Wingspan on December 06, 2005, 09:36:16 AM

[li]the backup quarterback spot has been completely ignored for years. i know you cannot have 2 probowlers. but to think a team would have a better insurance policy than mike farging mcmahon and koy the holder detmer. neither one of those guys even deserve to be in the league. [/li]

good point.  I didnt care for Mike McMahon when the Eagles were looking at him in the offseason, but he had me fooled there after the Giants game that he might actually be decent.  no longer.   Depth has been a concern for a while and I agree (http://www.concretefield.com/forum/index.php?topic=14870.msg261570#msg261570) with you that Reid hasnt done enough.

Quote from: MURP on December 06, 2005, 11:10:33 AM

Quote from: Wingspan on December 06, 2005, 09:36:16 AM

[li]the backup quarterback spot has been completely ignored for years. i know you cannot have 2 probowlers. but to think a team would have a better insurance policy than mike farging mcmahon and koy the holder detmer. neither one of those guys even deserve to be in the league. [/li]

good point.  I didnt care for Mike McMahon when the Eagles were looking at him in the offseason, but he had me fooled there after the Giants game that he might actually be decent.  no longer.   Depth has been a concern for a while and I agree (http://www.concretefield.com/forum/index.php?topic=14870.msg261570#msg261570) with you that Reid hasnt done enough.

man do i look dumb in that old thread. i should delete myself.

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 11:06:50 AM
Move Dhani back to the Giants.

I got no problem with him at WLB...our mistake was thinking we could shoehorn him into the SLB position when we brought him in last year

Those of you thinking all is lost for next year and beyond because of last night or the way they've played this year are going overboard.   

Teams have had poor years and rebounded to get right back in the SB mix with the same coaching staff and core group of players before. 

The Pats didn't make the playoffs after beating the Rams in 2002, then came back and won SB in 2004 and 2005.  Sure they weren't as bad as this year's Eagles, but they didn't lose their starting QB and have a similar debacle like the TO situation. 

The Rams went 7-9 after losing that SB and then went 12-4 the next year. 

The Panthers went 7-9 last year after losing in the SB the year before, and may be the best team in the NFC this year.  Again, their down year wasn't as bad as this year, but they also had their QB for the whole season.

A lot of this is just normal human psychology.  You go out and work hard and just miss getting to the SB for three years, then you finally get their in the fourth year.  Even though they didn't actually win it, you know that back in their minds they had a significant level of satisfaction that they finally broke through the championship game barrier.  So that compounds the SB loser hangover syndrome we've seen the last few years in this league.  Then, on top of that, you have this major TO distraction and your QB is playing hurt and won't get better - so you've got so much uncertainty there to deal with.  Then your QB goes down and your left with McMahon and Detmer, and other injuries start piling up - these guys are human, they knew they couldn't get back to the SB with the guys that were left.  And with the success they've had the past four years, a SB win was the only thing worth fighting for - once these guys knew that wasn't going to happen, human nature gets in the way and they just can't prepare emotionally like they have the last few years.

So, you get this season behind you.  You get your starting QB back, you get everybody else back healthy, you add one or two big time free agents and one or two other free agent starters with all the cap room you've got, you take advantage of the higher draft pick to draft or trade up for a young impact player and you get to start fresh ready to prove just about everyone and their mother wrong for picking you to miss the playoffs next year. 

This year certainly sucks and if you want to wallow in the misery go ahead.  But acting like the organization is in shambles and needs to clean house and start over is just ridiculous.

the offense has plenty of excuses as to their poor play.  The Defense has none, which really pisses me off. 

Quote from: MURP on December 06, 2005, 11:34:06 AM
the offense has plenty of excuses as to their poor play.  The Defense has none, which really pisses me off. 

I still think Jim Johnson is the main factor the defense has been so poor. Third down, the oppo moves the chains, all the friggin' time.

Anyone have any idea what our cap situation is looking like for next year???

This is my dream off-season:

-Sign Peterson, Randle-El or Givens, a reliable (don't need to be PBers or even every-down starters) OG and pass-rushing DT
-Use the draft to pick up a franchise OT, #2 TE, depth at CB, DL, OL

McMahon is still a better option that Koy at this point. 

Quote from: PhillyandBCEagles on December 06, 2005, 11:35:58 AM
Anyone have any idea what our cap situation is looking like for next year???

good, as usual. 

Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 06, 2005, 10:58:55 AM

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 10:36:11 AM
It was a blowout....but they scored three times directly off of turnovers.  That'll take the wind out of your sails, especially when you know you're playing with third stringers.  I'm not an apologist by any means, but come on.

i agree, the defense had been playing decently until Ed McMahon gave the Seahawks 14 points, after that they folded the tent.

How long was that opening drive again?

Quote from: MURP on December 06, 2005, 11:52:02 AM

Quote from: PhillyandBCEagles on December 06, 2005, 11:35:58 AM
Anyone have any idea what our cap situation is looking like for next year???

good, as usual. 

A 5-11 record...#1 in cap room...stats can be very reveiling ::)

eh, no different than when Banner was winning the salary cap prize and they were going to the Superbowl. 

Quote from: General_Failure on December 06, 2005, 11:54:03 AM

Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 06, 2005, 10:58:55 AM

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 10:36:11 AM
It was a blowout....but they scored three times directly off of turnovers.  That'll take the wind out of your sails, especially when you know you're playing with third stringers.  I'm not an apologist by any means, but come on.

i agree, the defense had been playing decently until Ed McMahon gave the Seahawks 14 points, after that they folded the tent.

How long was that opening drive again?

i said decently, not great

even with that 1st drive, they stopped them from scoring until a bogus penalty call

Quote from: MURP on December 06, 2005, 11:55:36 AM
eh, no different than when Banner was winning the salary cap prize and they were going to the Superbowl. 

But the wheel came off!!  DMac injured, He who must not be named" departs , pass rush problems(NOT SIMON!)...that unspent loot MAY have helped..How about a quality backup for McNabb(ala the Viks) and one nice veteran WR ;)

Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 06, 2005, 11:56:24 AM

Quote from: General_Failure on December 06, 2005, 11:54:03 AM

Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 06, 2005, 10:58:55 AM

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 10:36:11 AM
It was a blowout....but they scored three times directly off of turnovers.  That'll take the wind out of your sails, especially when you know you're playing with third stringers.  I'm not an apologist by any means, but come on.

i agree, the defense had been playing decently until Ed McMahon gave the Seahawks 14 points, after that they folded the tent.

How long was that opening drive again?

i said decently, not great

even with that 1st drive, they stopped them from scoring until a bogus penalty call

the only bogus part of that call was it should have been on trotter, not mikel

Quote from: MURP on December 06, 2005, 11:34:06 AM
the offense has plenty of excuses as to their poor play. The Defense has none, which really pisses me off.

I disagree with that statement.  The LBs have been terrible and the defensive line has been shakey at best, and the play calling and execution has been down right terrible imo.  I think the FO will go after some DL and LB help via free agency and spend some of that money.  I don't see much change on offense except for maybe the addition of a WR. 

Quote from: Wingspan on December 06, 2005, 12:09:57 PM

Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 06, 2005, 11:56:24 AM

Quote from: General_Failure on December 06, 2005, 11:54:03 AM

Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 06, 2005, 10:58:55 AM

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 10:36:11 AM
It was a blowout....but they scored three times directly off of turnovers.  That'll take the wind out of your sails, especially when you know you're playing with third stringers.  I'm not an apologist by any means, but come on.

i agree, the defense had been playing decently until Ed McMahon gave the Seahawks 14 points, after that they folded the tent.

How long was that opening drive again?

i said decently, not great

even with that 1st drive, they stopped them from scoring until a bogus penalty call

the only bogus part of that call was it should have been on trotter, not mikel

Exactly

Quote from: mikey418 on December 06, 2005, 12:10:38 PM

Quote from: MURP on December 06, 2005, 11:34:06 AM
the offense has plenty of excuses as to their poor play. The Defense has none, which really pisses me off.

I disagree with that statement.  The LBs have been terrible and the defensive line has been shakey at best, and the play calling and execution has been down right terrible imo.  I think the FO will go after some DL and LB help via free agency and spend some of that money.  I don't see much change on offense except for maybe the addition of a WR. 

The defense has been a problem but the offense has given up almost as many points..unforgivable :puke

Not to mention that a disciplined Trotter in coverage on that 3rd down play would have resulted in a Seattle FG....not a TD...

Quote from: mikey418 on December 06, 2005, 12:10:38 PM

Quote from: MURP on December 06, 2005, 11:34:06 AM
the offense has plenty of excuses as to their poor play. The Defense has none, which really pisses me off.

I disagree with that statement. The LBs have been terrible and the defensive line has been shakey at best, and the play calling and execution has been down right terrible imo. I think the FO will go after some DL and LB help via free agency and spend some of that money.

thats my point Mikey.  Most of the defense has played like crap all year, but most of them were the starters going into the season.  Its not like the defense is all backup players.  (which the offense basically is due to injuries.)  The Defense has no excuse for their awful play this season.

Quote from: MURP on December 06, 2005, 11:52:02 AM

Quote from: PhillyandBCEagles on December 06, 2005, 11:35:58 AM
Anyone have any idea what our cap situation is looking like for next year???

good, as usual. 

That's what I thought, but someone on another board was trying to tell me we're slated to be $15 mil over the cap next year.  Was pretty sure that's not true (or if it is it's not taking into account the fact that we have a million guys under contract right now due to injuries) but wish I had a link to back it up.

$15m or more under is probably significantly closer to the truth.

Quote from: Zanshin on December 06, 2005, 09:53:54 AM
It's bad.  But let's be realistic.  The bad is compounded by the rash of injuries.  We're basically fielding a second or third team squad.  Now, I'm sure the team could tolerate a backup playing here or there without that much of a dropoff-- but when they're all on the field at once, it magnifies the problems exponentially. 

We've lost our probowl QB, both starting WRs, our starting FB (Ritchie to injury, basically), 3/5ths of our starting o-line, our "big" back, our starting corner, a projected starting DE who would be better suited against the run...blah, blah, blah.  There are not many teams that would look good dealing with that.  And that's not even considering the overall pallor from the Owens mess.

Right now we're looking at inferior talent and/or lack of experience...all trying to learn to play together late in the season against teams with actual playoff hopes.

This team has needs...but it's really rough to get an accurate read on that right now because of the situation.

Well said

Quote from: PhillyandBCEagles on December 06, 2005, 12:24:01 PM
That's what I thought, but someone on another board was trying to tell me we're slated to be $15 mil over the cap next year.  Was pretty sure that's not true (or if it is it's not taking into account the fact that we have a million guys under contract right now due to injuries) but wish I had a link to back it up.

Damn bandwagoners.

With 15 players either on IR or PUP...what more do you need for an excuse.  Not to mention a 16th player, whom will not be named, that is done for the year.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 06, 2005, 01:46:14 PM

Quote from: PhillyandBCEagles on December 06, 2005, 12:24:01 PM
That's what I thought, but someone on another board was trying to tell me we're slated to be $15 mil over the cap next year.  Was pretty sure that's not true (or if it is it's not taking into account the fact that we have a million guys under contract right now due to injuries) but wish I had a link to back it up.

Damn bandwagoners.

There are many words in the English language. Bandwagoners is only two of them.

Quote from: PhillyFan on December 06, 2005, 11:32:35 AM
Those of you thinking all is lost for next year and beyond because of last night or the way they've played this year are going overboard.   

Teams have had poor years and rebounded to get right back in the SB mix with the same coaching staff and core group of players before. 

The Pats didn't make the playoffs after beating the Rams in 2002, then came back and won SB in 2004 and 2005.  Sure they weren't as bad as this year's Eagles, but they didn't lose their starting QB and have a similar debacle like the TO situation. 

The Rams went 7-9 after losing that SB and then went 12-4 the next year. 

The Panthers went 7-9 last year after losing in the SB the year before, and may be the best team in the NFC this year.  Again, their down year wasn't as bad as this year, but they also had their QB for the whole season.

I keep thinking about those same scenarios but what concerns me is those teams although they had losing records the next year they weren't horrible.  Actually the Panthers were probably the hottest team in football the last half of the season. 

The birds look down right awful this season but I will hold off on any judgement regarding the future until we see what FO does with FA and the draft(maybe they'll get it right one of these years).

The Pats were HORRIBLE that year! And so were the RAMS!

Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 06, 2005, 02:02:01 PM
The Pats were HORRIBLE that year!

the patriots went 9-7 and lost out on the playoffs by a tiebreaker.

The Eagles could still go 9-7!


Haha.  Just kidding.

They were still horrible. THey had pretty much dominated the year before, and the 2 years after.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 06, 2005, 02:10:11 PM
They were still horrible. THey had pretty much dominated the year before, and the 2 years after.

That 2003 9-7 Pats team was probably better than this year's Pats team.

You think? I don't.

Yes, I do.  That year's team had some legitimate contenders in the division in the Jets and Miami.  This year, the AFC East is a big-time joke, and the Pats are simply the best of the worst.  They will probably face the Jaguars in Foxboro in the wild-card round, and I think they lose that game.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 02:13:57 PM
Yes, I do.  That year's team had some legitimate contenders in the division in the Jets and Miami.  This year, the AFC East is a big-time joke, and the Pats are simply the best of the worst.  They will probably face the Jaguars in Foxboro in the wild-card round, and I think they lose that game.

I don't know, if Leftwich is still out, I don't know they win that game.

Well, since January 2006 will be as reflection and evaluation time for this franchise, Lurie MUST DO THE FOLLOWING:

1)Insist to Banner that whatever Reid needs, he gets in the way of players. According to this website http://www.geocities.com/eaglescap, the guy on there estimates the Eagles will be 16.895M UNDER the cap. But that's with Owens' pay included and NOT with the 6.8M that they've written in LTBE incentives this year that will be refunded next year. If the Eagles get Owens' 1.725M back, that, combined with his 795K in fines from his suspension, will offset the 1.9M that he will cost them in dead money. That will give the Eagles right in the neighborhood of 25M under the cap--but again, he bases this on the cap going up to 90.5M--if the owners come to their senses and extend the CBA and include local revenue to the cap, it could raise the cap to 100M--putting the Eagles 35M under the cap. With only Mike Lewis, maybe LJ due extensions, that still leaves plaenty of money to spread around.

2)Insist to Reid a change in this coaching staff. After 7 years, it's become too predictable. JJ maybe needs to retire or given a job in the front office--maybe, "special assistant to the president", but I think a good younger DC is needed. Same with the recievers' coach--Culley has to go. Morenwheig needs to go. He's the one who told Reid he could handle Owens, and he suggested the Eagles sign McMahon.

As far as player moves need to go, I feel this is where they need to upgrade--

QB--no longer should Detmer be the backup here. He just doesn't have the arm nor the mobility. They need at least 2 capable backups.

WR--I think they need 2 WRs here. An experienced No.1 and a younger guy. Brandon Lloyd, who has a 16-17 ypc average with the 49ers, will be a RFA. If the 49ers tender him at the first round level, the Birds should try to make the same kind of deal the Jets did when they got McCareins for a 2nd rounder from the Ttians. There's whispers out of Buffalo that unless Eric Moulds agrees to restructure his deal, he could get swept out the door with the rest of the Buffalo front office; Harrison, we all know, could be out in Indy; Wayne will probably be franchised.

DE--difficult to spend big on this position:Darren Howard would be a good catch, but he'll be what, 29 next season? You have Kyle Van den Bosch who's having a great year in Tennessee; Simeon Rice might be cut in Tampa, but he's what, 31? Aaron Kampman might be a good fit to rotate with Cole.

DT--Chirs Hovan is having a comeback year with the Bucs, a similar situation as Van den Bosch; Rocky Bernard would be a huge upgrade.

LBs--Peterson, who may be too costly; Wil Witherspoon, who is very good; and Angleo Crowell, who's been very good replacing Takeo Spikes in Buffalo. He's a RFA and would require at least a 3rd round pick in exchange.

OL--the only decent OT is Jeff Backus, the Lions' ORT; they could re-sign Runyan for 1 or 2 seasons until either Herremans or Armstrong develop. At guard, Hutchinson is the big name here, but would Reid spend big money on a guard? Jamaal Jackson looks like he's getting comfortable at center, but you got LaCharles Bently and Seth McKinney available.

RB--they already sunk in a lot of money in Westbrook, and whoever they bring in as a big back needs to get more work than Gordon did.


Finally, I read what Big Ed said in that the Buddy Ryan-era Eagles criticized this team. I also read on another board where they criticized this regime as well as the players. My answer to them would be this--"How many BIG GAMES did those teams that Ryan put together show up for? As I recall, with more talent than this squad, they couldn't win any playoff games with Ryan and won only 1 in that 86-92 timeframe when most were with the team. As far as their criticism of the owner, don't tell me they would rather play for Braman than Lurie. I have a hard time believing that.

If anyone saw the pregame interviews with the players from that era....EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM said that they'd have NEVER left Philadelphia with a front office and owner like the Eagles have now.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 06, 2005, 03:10:29 PM
If anyone saw the pregame interviews with the players from that era....EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM said that they'd have NEVER left Philadelphia with a front office and owner like the Eagles have now.

That's good to hear. I was just repeating what I saw on another board--it was before last night's game. So I guess they got their information from radio interviews or papers. I don't know. I only know that I lived in Philly from 1985-90, and I would have a hard time believing, as I said, those guys would rather play for Braman.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 06, 2005, 03:10:29 PM
If anyone saw the pregame interviews with the players from that era....EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM said that they'd have NEVER left Philadelphia with a front office and owner like the Eagles have now.

This front office might not have re-signed Reggie White either.  He was right around the magic 30-year-old mark.

Reggie White even said (way after the fact) that had Lurie been his owner, he'd have been an Eagle for life. He loved Lurie.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 03:17:59 PM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 06, 2005, 03:10:29 PM
If anyone saw the pregame interviews with the players from that era....EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM said that they'd have NEVER left Philadelphia with a front office and owner like the Eagles have now.

This front office might not have re-signed Reggie White either.  He was right around the magic 30-year-old mark.

and if they didn't, everybody on here would call him fat. 

Then again, because of his Hall-of-Fame level of production, the FO (and the fans) would probably have made an exception and made sure to keep Reggie around past 30 a la Dawkins.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 03:33:42 PM
Then again, because of his Hall-of-Fame level of production, the FO (and the fans) would probably have made an exception and made sure to keep Reggie around past 30 a la Dawkins.

dawkins is no hall of famer but i understand your point.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 08:50:06 AM
Post 'em when you got 'em.  Here are a few:

• Greg Lewis is not a starting-caliber WR.  This team actually misses what Pinkston brings to the field as a #2.  Can Pinkston and Reggie be starters on a Super Bowl team?  Can Lewis take the skirt off and fight for the ball as the slot receiver?
• Brian Westbrook and/or the offensive line must learn how to get the short yards on 3rd/4th down and less than 2 yards.  It's embarassing how often this offense fails to get any push whatsoever.
• This team needs 2 all-around LB's good enough to stop the run and also play the pass in the nickel package.  Having Trotter out there on pass coverage is not going to be a winning strategy.  Going "cheap" at LB doesn't work if...
• The front four generates nothing on their own.  NOTHING.  We've seen flashes from the overpaid Jevon Kearse, we've seen burst from rookies Trent Cole and Mike Patterson, and guys like Walker, Hollis T, and Rayburn have been solid players in the past.  BUT, either their conditioning is awful, or they just aren't that good.  This team once again will have to use an early pick on a defensive lineman, and they should probably ALSO address the line in free agency.
• With all the other issues, the secondary may simply have to just be better.  I happen to think that with an improved front seven, we'd be surprised at how many coverage problems would go away.

Time's yours.

Good post. Basically this team needs to revamp the entire defensive line and linebackers, and add a receiver or two. I'm not that worried about the offensive line because I like Clarke and Herremans. That will probably be upgraded as well most likely.

Quote from: mhunt on December 06, 2005, 03:37:30 PM

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 03:33:42 PM
Then again, because of his Hall-of-Fame level of production, the FO (and the fans) would probably have made an exception and made sure to keep Reggie around past 30 a la Dawkins.

dawkins is no hall of famer but i understand your point.

I didn't say that Dawkins was necessarily a Hall-of-Famer (although he has a chance to be), but I'm glad you can understand my point.  The Eagles haven't had a player on defense that changes games like Reggie did since he left for Green Bay.  I don't think any front office with the cap room would let a player like him go, even one like ours that tends to allow "aging" players to find another team.

Speaking of defensive linemen, Jevon Kearse is stealing money as he routinely gets swallowed up by single blocks.

yeah, i know they wouldn't ditch reggie...i just wanted to use my fat joke, dammit.

upfront would be upset with your use of the word fat.

Without reading anything beyond the first page I would say the hard truth is that this team doesn't have any leadership or chemistry.

The defense can't get itself up for a game to save its life. That's leadership.
The offensive line has lost all of its meanness and attitude. That's leadership.
Even when the team has won, it has taken them forever to get rolling (49ers game excluded) and clearly was not pumped as the game began. Leadership.

I'm not completely convinced of it yet, but the argument can be made for the first time that letting every aging veteran go has caught up to the team. Yes they've struggled through an inordinate number of injuries to their best players, but injuries in the past have been compensated for by tough play from everyone else. The combination of TO and the loss of key vets over the past several years seems to have torn apart the chemistry that they've always seemed to have especially on defense. And of course, the fact that the D thought they were all God's gift to football heading into the season didn't help anything either. Wind sprints and a healthy dose of Hugh Douglas is a reality check that these iceholes need.

Quote from: rjs246 on December 06, 2005, 05:59:50 PM
The defense can't get itself up for a game to save its life. That's leadership.

That's Trotter and Dawkins.

Quote from: rjs246 on December 06, 2005, 05:59:50 PM
The offensive line has lost all of its meanness and attitude. That's leadership.

Was this line ever mean? Runyan, sure, but this year you're not even hearing about him being nasty.

I think the biggest problem with this Eagles team is the front 7.

Keep Cole, Kearse, and Patterson and ditch the rest. Rayburn, Hollis, and the like are all wastes of money and get no push up the middle. I'm not so much concerned about the ends and I think they would be helped out immensely if we had quality DT's to push the line of scrimmage backwards. The middle of the line usually gets pushed backwards/gets stopped in their tracks. It would also help greatly against the run and and force a lot of plays towards the outside.

Saying that, we need two very good OLB, so when the rush gets pushed vertically we can have the speed and range at that position in order make those plays laterally. Otherwise it does us no good.

So my two main concerns for the defense in the offseason are:
1. 2 DT's
2. 2 OLB's

As for the offense, I think we need to focus on the line. A new C, and G are needed, and a big play threat at the WR corps for McNabb. Also a good FB to open up holes and allow Westbrook to run through and follow. Westbrook had his best rushing year running behind Ritchie. He needs a similar backfield mate that isn't afraid to bust up skulls and blow people up. Josh Parry is not that type of player.

So for the offense:
1. G
2. C
3. FB
4. Playmaking WR

Hopefully those positions can be addressed in the draft. And if the Eagles get a top 10 choice, I would be open to trading it for possibly 2 later 1st rounders or a couple of spots drop and an early 2nd rounder; just so we can get higher quality rookies in the fold who can make an impact now.

Quote from: mikey418 on December 06, 2005, 12:16:20 PM
Not to mention that a disciplined Trotter in coverage on that 3rd down play would have resulted in a Seattle FG....not a TD...

You cannot expect them to not give up a ten yard pass when the QB has 8 seconds.

So they're allowed to be stupid after ... what? Four seconds? Five?

Quote from: General_Failure on December 06, 2005, 08:01:00 PM
So they're allowed to be stupid after ... what? Four seconds? Five?

6.7864456
It's in the handbook.

Some good posts in here...

1. New OLBs
2. A big RB who can pound the A gaps for short yardage
3. A real goddamn FB
4. A real backup QB
5. An approach to the off-season where they are not afraid to admit mistakes and go fix them
6. A real WR
7. Heart, guts and balls

Quote from: mhunt on December 06, 2005, 03:37:30 PM

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 03:33:42 PM
Then again, because of his Hall-of-Fame level of production, the FO (and the fans) would probably have made an exception and made sure to keep Reggie around past 30 a la Dawkins.

dawkins is no hall of famer but i understand your point.

I disagree. I think Dawkins has a great shot at the Hall of Fame. At least as good a shot as Eric Allen. He was clearly the best free safety in the league for a long time, and many of the sportswriters who vote on the HoF have written so. Dr. Douche is already on record saying he thinks Dawkins is a shoe-in, but that old coot will be dead by the time Dawkins' chance comes up.

As of now I'd say he's the only current Eagle with a 50% chance to get enshrined.

Quote from: methdeez on December 06, 2005, 08:33:19 PM

Quote from: General_Failure on December 06, 2005, 08:01:00 PM
So they're allowed to be stupid after ... what? Four seconds? Five?

6.7864456
It's in the handbook.

JJ knows Trotter can't read, right?

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 03:51:29 PM

Quote from: mhunt on December 06, 2005, 03:37:30 PM

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 06, 2005, 03:33:42 PM
Then again, because of his Hall-of-Fame level of production, the FO (and the fans) would probably have made an exception and made sure to keep Reggie around past 30 a la Dawkins.

dawkins is no hall of famer but i understand your point.

I didn't say that Dawkins was necessarily a Hall-of-Famer (although he has a chance to be), but I'm glad you can understand my point.  The Eagles haven't had a player on defense that changes games like Reggie did since he left for Green Bay.  I don't think any front office with the cap room would let a player like him go, even one like ours that tends to allow "aging" players to find another team.

Speaking of defensive linemen, Jevon Kearse is stealing money as he routinely gets swallowed up by single blocks.

FF, I agree with everything you say in this post. The worst thing about Monday night was, on the night they were honouring Reggie, "The Freak" decides to put in his usual no-show.

first things first...pinky is average at best...they only miss him because hes better than greg lewis...the mistake made was not in undervaluing pinky but in that just about everyone overvalued greg lewis...the lemmings all followed reid and bought into his god complex in thinking an undrafted free agent wr who isnt fast (where is the myth of greg lewis' speed thread?) or big could play in the league

outside of sheldon trotter and dawkins the defense is unbelievably soft...get some men out there and get rid of everyone else

reid needs to go as coach

they need to find out and find out quick how many if any of these young lineman can play...i havent seen enough of them to make that judgement myself but the second the season ends they need to have a sit down with juan castillo and have an organizational roundtable on the future of the oline

while i am the last person to use injuries as an excuse and i hope andy doesnt pass the whole season off as wasted due to injuries but the fact of the matter is with a healthy mcnabb this team would have had a legit shot at a wild card...not saying that would have been good enough but the difference btwn him and the back up qb's is ridiculous...which if nothing else should tell andy to get a quality back up qb next year...that is a must in todays nfl

this season can be summed up in a single number...ONE...that represents the number of free agents the eagles signed in the offseason...and his name was mike mcmahon...that is NOT good

Yeah I would add a quality backup QB to the fold as well. I don't know who could possibly be out there though who could pick up the offense and contribute right away if need be.

Maybe Favre will decide to stay a few years in Philly to hang out with Reid and shoot the sh!t.

The T position might need to be addressed too. I don't know what is going on with Runyan. They might need to pursue someone in the draft or pick someone to possibly replace him. I'm not sure about the young guys but I'm guessing Herremans will be getting a lot of reps for the rest of the year and we can better evaluate him at the end of the year.

Also, we need some quality depth across the line. I know I mentioned new DT's, but we also need to keep the rotation fresh along the ends. I don't care for Kalu and Juqua Thomas is garbage. Maybe McDougle can come back and contribute, but having essentially sat on the bench for his entire pro career I can't imagine him doing that great. With that being said, I think McDougle should have to fight for a position on this roster - meaning that he doesn't automatically get a spot and must earn it by going up against some good FA acquistions and draft picks. 

Quote from: Eaglez on December 07, 2005, 09:45:30 AM
Maybe Favre will decide to stay a few years in Philly to hang out with Reid and shoot the sh!t.

Saint Brett has made it clear that he will retire when his career as a starter in Green Bay is over.

lol...Lewis was never meant to be a starter.  He was going to be a third receiver, and he would have been fine at that.

People crack me up. 

"ooooohhh....the sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

It's a bad, snakebit season.  Deal with it and lighten the farg up.

Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 06, 2005, 09:07:23 PM
Some good posts in here...

1. New OLBs
2. A big RB who can pound the A gaps for short yardage
3. A real goddamn FB
4. A real backup QB
5. An approach to the off-season where they are not afraid to admit mistakes and go fix them
6. A real WR
7. Heart, guts and balls

Phreak, you might need to add this name to your wish list--Jon Kitna. He really is the only viable backup that's due to be a UFA in 2006--unless you want to go with reclamation projects such as Joey Harrington or David Carr, if they're cut.

Quote from: Zanshin on December 07, 2005, 09:54:52 AM
lol...Lewis was never meant to be a starter.  He was going to be a third receiver, and he would have been fine at that.

he would have?  i don't know about that, he's soft as a reciever and a 3rd WR, slot guy needs to be able to fight for a ball.  he certainly can't do that.

Quote
"ooooohhh....the sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

It's a bad, snakebit season.  Deal with it and lighten the farg up.

yeah good point, why would people be upset about a 42-0 loss at home on monday night football?  i just don't understand it.

its so cool when people tell you the proper way to deal with the eagles results


its also revisionist history to say that when pinky went down there wasnt a ton of fans who thought that lewis would step right into the #2 slot and prove that he was nfl starter material...as did andy

Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 07, 2005, 09:58:40 AM

Quote from: Zanshin on December 07, 2005, 09:54:52 AM
lol...Lewis was never meant to be a starter. He was going to be a third receiver, and he would have been fine at that.

he would have? i don't know about that, he's soft as a reciever and a 3rd WR, slot guy needs to be able to fight for a ball. he certainly can't do that.

Quote
"ooooohhh....the sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

It's a bad, snakebit season. Deal with it and lighten the farg up.

yeah good point, why would people be upset about a 42-0 loss at home on monday night football? i just don't understand it.

Let's be clear....I don't care how you or anyone else reacts.  Feel free to be idiotically over-reactionary.  It was a bad loss...but people aren't talking about the loss.  They're talking about the mess of a team, as if it was the actual team playing.

And just because Lewis was going to be the third receiver doesn't mean he'd be in the slot.  Owens was the slot guy.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 09:49:32 AM

Quote from: Eaglez on December 07, 2005, 09:45:30 AM
Maybe Favre will decide to stay a few years in Philly to hang out with Reid and shoot the sh!t.

Saint Brett has made it clear that he will retire when his career as a starter in Green Bay is over.

Yeah, it's a pipedream but oh well.


Well, Greg Lewis had a good training camp, he performed well under pressure in the Super Bowl, and he looked pretty decent at the beginning of the year opposite of TO. I didn't think it was unreasonable to assume that Lewis could do a decent job replacing Pinkston. It's not like it would have been a hard task considering that Pinky's production over the past two seasons has been paltry at best.

Lewis has now turned into a wussy, especially evident from Monday night. But Pinky has been showing us that he's a wussy for 5 seasons.

We're looking at a team that will be starting only 4/11 of the original starting offense, and that includes Josh Parry and two offensive linemen.  The only skill position player still intact is L.J.

So, the alarmism on the offensive side of the ball might be a little extreme.  I contend that there are zero teams in the NFL that would survive such a rash of injuries and "other issues".  Imagine Indy without Manning, Harrison, Wayne, the left side of the line (namely Tarik Glenn), and later Edge.  They'd be pretty good, right?  Ha!

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 10:08:12 AM
We're looking at a team that will be starting only 4/11 of the original starting offense, and that includes Josh Parry and two offensive linemen. The only skill position player still intact is L.J.

So, the alarmism on the offensive side of the ball might be a little extreme. I contend that there are zero teams in the NFL that would survive such a rash of injuries and "other issues". Imagine Indy without Manning, Harrison, Wayne, the left side of the line (namely Tarik Glenn), and later Edge. They'd be pretty good, right? Ha!

lol...stop trying to inject reality into their misery.  Some people aren't happy unless they have major drama to bitch about.  Let them be the squeeling girls they are.

Quote from: Zanshin on December 07, 2005, 10:05:14 AM
Let's be clear....I don't care how you or anyone else reacts.  Feel free to be idiotically over-reactionary.  It was a bad loss...but people aren't talking about the loss.  They're talking about the mess of a team, as if it was the actual team playing.

i am not being "idotically over-reactionary".  i was merely responding to your statment, mocking others, that "the sky is falling".  well, it is actually, this season has been a disaster.  if you're ok with that, it's fine.  but don't mock other people who are upset that a team with Super Bowl aspirations is out of the playoffs at the begining of December. 

injuries are part of it, but so are bad personnel decisions and poor coaching. 

plus, what else is there to talk about?  you just wanna talk about last year again?

This season has been a disaster for many, many reasons.  I'd rather talk about next year than last year, actually.  But let's look at this season for what it is.  To talk about the team and how they're playing at this point is, well, pretty pointless considering who's on the field at the same time. 

There's a track record of success, and this is one bad season.  Not only is it a bad season, but it's a laughably bad season.  So many things have just not gone the right way, it's ridiculous...and it deserves to be treated as such.  It's clearly an outlier.

Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 07, 2005, 10:16:06 AMbut don't mock other people who are upset that a team with Super Bowl aspirations is out of the playoffs at the begining of December.

After losing to Washington and then Dallas, this team was out of the playoffs in early November.

Yep, I considered any possibility for a Super Bowl season over with the loss to Washington, then buried/confirmed with the loss to Dallas.

So why the histrionics now?  Don't people realize this season has been dead for a month?  WTF?

I considered any possibility for a Super Bowl season over with the loss to Washington

superbowl was essentially over when they didnt imporve the team in the offseason...but it officially ended the minute donovan got his sports hernia

Quote from: Diomedes on December 07, 2005, 10:32:36 AM
So why the histrionics now?  Don't people realize this season has been dead for a month?  WTF?

Because now those people with grudges against the front office/head coach can now make an argument about how they have been right all along.

If you want to point fingers at someone it should be Andy Reid & the FO

-- The guy is too loyal to the Mormons (ie Reno Mahe, Koy Detmer).
-- Hes not open to change and not only scoffs at recommendations but flat out goes to try and prove those people wrong.
-- Some lousy breaks with injuries (Buckhalter, McDougle, Andrews, etc) and no depth built at any positions due to mediocre drafting.
-- AR needs to concentrate on coaching and hire a real GM
-- Obviously some coaches need to be fired, DAVID CULLEY in particular. How does a team go 7 years into the draft and nothing to show for WRs??
-- Is the offensive scheme that complicated??

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM

-- The guy is too loyal to the Mormons (ie Reno Mahe, Koy Detmer).

koy isnt a mormon

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Some lousy breaks with injuries (Buckhalter, McDougle, Andrews, etc) and no depth built at any positions due to mediocre drafting.

all the "lousy breaks" are players drafted by reid

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Obviously some coaches need to be fired, DAVID CULLEY in particular. How does a team go 7 years into the draft and nothing to show for WRs??

that i agree with

Quote from: Wingspan on December 07, 2005, 11:16:35 AM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM

-- The guy is too loyal to the Mormons (ie Reno Mahe, Koy Detmer).

koy isnt a mormon

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Some lousy breaks with injuries (Buckhalter, McDougle, Andrews, etc) and no depth built at any positions due to mediocre drafting.

all the "lousy breaks" are players drafted by reid

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Obviously some coaches need to be fired, DAVID CULLEY in particular. How does a team go 7 years into the draft and nothing to show for WRs??

that i agree with

so TY is a Mormon and his brother isnt? HMMM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:24:33 AM

Quote from: Wingspan on December 07, 2005, 11:16:35 AM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM

-- The guy is too loyal to the Mormons (ie Reno Mahe, Koy Detmer).

koy isnt a mormon

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Some lousy breaks with injuries (Buckhalter, McDougle, Andrews, etc) and no depth built at any positions due to mediocre drafting.

all the "lousy breaks" are players drafted by reid

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Obviously some coaches need to be fired, DAVID CULLEY in particular. How does a team go 7 years into the draft and nothing to show for WRs??

that i agree with

so TY is a Mormon and his brother isnt? HMMM

who said TY is a mormon?

Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 07, 2005, 11:25:36 AM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:24:33 AM

Quote from: Wingspan on December 07, 2005, 11:16:35 AM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM

-- The guy is too loyal to the Mormons (ie Reno Mahe, Koy Detmer).

koy isnt a mormon

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Some lousy breaks with injuries (Buckhalter, McDougle, Andrews, etc) and no depth built at any positions due to mediocre drafting.

all the "lousy breaks" are players drafted by reid

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Obviously some coaches need to be fired, DAVID CULLEY in particular. How does a team go 7 years into the draft and nothing to show for WRs??

that i agree with

so TY is a Mormon and his brother isnt? HMMM

who said TY is a mormon?

The Mormons say so... http://morgannews.us/football.html

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:26:27 AM

Quote from: Sun_Mo on December 07, 2005, 11:25:36 AM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:24:33 AM

Quote from: Wingspan on December 07, 2005, 11:16:35 AM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM

-- The guy is too loyal to the Mormons (ie Reno Mahe, Koy Detmer).

koy isnt a mormon

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Some lousy breaks with injuries (Buckhalter, McDougle, Andrews, etc) and no depth built at any positions due to mediocre drafting.

all the "lousy breaks" are players drafted by reid

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Obviously some coaches need to be fired, DAVID CULLEY in particular. How does a team go 7 years into the draft and nothing to show for WRs??

that i agree with

so TY is a Mormon and his brother isnt? HMMM

who said TY is a mormon?

The Mormons say so... http://morgannews.us/football.html

ahhhhhhh

i thought Ty was in the same vein as Jim McMahon

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:24:33 AM

Quote from: Wingspan on December 07, 2005, 11:16:35 AM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM

-- The guy is too loyal to the Mormons (ie Reno Mahe, Koy Detmer).

koy isnt a mormon

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Some lousy breaks with injuries (Buckhalter, McDougle, Andrews, etc) and no depth built at any positions due to mediocre drafting.

all the "lousy breaks" are players drafted by reid

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 11:12:13 AM
-- Obviously some coaches need to be fired, DAVID CULLEY in particular. How does a team go 7 years into the draft and nothing to show for WRs??

that i agree with

so TY is a Mormon and his brother isnt? HMMM

ty married into it i suppose (in fact i think reid did too?...i'm probably wrong about reid)

Sean Salisbury's a mormon.  That explains a little.

He not open to change and not only scoffs at recommendations but flat out goes to try and prove those people wrong

post of the year

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 11:57:06 AM
He not open to change and not only scoffs at recommendations but flat out goes to try and prove those people wrong

post of the year

Oh yeah?  Whose recommendations is he scoffing at?  The sports media?  The fans?

you name em and hes goes the other way with it...the only change he ever made was in getting TO but even that took years of bitching from the fans for him to do it

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 12:00:43 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 11:57:06 AM
He not open to change and not only scoffs at recommendations but flat out goes to try and prove those people wrong

post of the year

Oh yeah?  Whose recommendations is he scoffing at?  The sports media?  The fans?

obviously some of them are his own coaches, they cant possibly agree throwing the ball 50 times a game with an injured QB is a good gameplan.

Example: our WRs are good enough to win games!!  :boom

they cant possibly agree throwing the ball 50 times a game with an injured QB

with the TO fiasco and all the injuries this will get swept under the rug when all is said and done...but his decision to put mcnabb in the position you mention above is one of the most stupid irresponsible things ive ever seen a coach do

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:01:52 PM
you name em and hes goes the other way with it...the only change he ever made was in getting TO but even that took years of bitching from the fans for him to do it

...and you wonder why he scoffs at the fans?  How did that whole T.O. thing end up working out?

It almost worked, but then it really, really didn't.  The first step to being a smart fan is understanding that Andy Reid, Joe Banner, Tom Heckert, etc... all those guys are better at their job than you would be.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 12:06:27 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:01:52 PM
you name em and hes goes the other way with it...the only change he ever made was in getting TO but even that took years of bitching from the fans for him to do it

...and you wonder why he scoffs at the fans?  How did that whole T.O. thing end up working out?

It almost worked, but then it really, really didn't.  The first step to being a smart fan is understanding that Andy Reid, Joe Banner, Tom Heckert, etc... all those guys are better at their job than you would be.

and all have brought zero super bowl wins to philly.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 12:06:27 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:01:52 PM
you name em and hes goes the other way with it...the only change he ever made was in getting TO but even that took years of bitching from the fans for him to do it

...and you wonder why he scoffs at the fans?  How did that whole T.O. thing end up working out?

It almost worked, but then it really, really didn't.  The first step to being a smart fan is understanding that Andy Reid, Joe Banner, Tom Heckert, etc... all those guys are better at their job than you would be.

im just saying that im sure his coaches dont all agree hes the best gameplanner and that he should be open to suggestions from his coaches. How can you tell me Childress and Moronwhig agree with Andy throwing 50x a game with no running game

and all have brought zero super bowl wins to philly

or as many as i have

i know for a fact that i can coach better than andy...and im quite certain i can draft as well too...what i cant do is bring a 1000 page dossier to my job interview...that says more about andy than anything hes done...or not done...in the last seven years

even mike martz was able to lose a super bowl.

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:11:30 PM
i know for a fact that i can coach better than andy...and im quite certain i can draft as well too

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Without doubt the most deluded post I have ever seen on a message board anywhere!

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:01:52 PM
you name em and hes goes the other way with it...the only change he ever made was in getting TO but even that took years of bitching from the fans for him to do it

i wasnt aware TO was available all those other years, dookie.

yeah the fans were bitching to get TO for five straight years

TO = number one receiver mr literal

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:17:44 PM
yeah the fans were bitching to get TO for five straight years

TO = number one receiver mr literal

who were those #1's that the fans were so right about? Peerless Price?

yeah there were no available upgrades at wr btwn the years of 2000-2004 in the entire league

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:28:00 PM
yeah there were no available upgrades at wr btwn the years of 2000-2004 in the entire league

For real! IGY is the bestest coach/GM in the history of football! :-D

For real! IGY is the bestest coach/GM in the history of football

absolutely not...i just feel as though im better than andy reid

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:28:00 PM
yeah there were no available upgrades at wr btwn the years of 2000-2004 in the entire league

I'm fairly certain you are being sarcastic; however, that's pretty close to true.

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:32:03 PM
For real! IGY is the bestest coach/GM in the history of football

absolutely not...i just feel as though im better than andy reid

:-D How very noble of you! Do you mind if I ask what your actual occupation is and what circumstances do you think have prevented you from becoming the modern-day equivalent of Vince Lombardi?

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:28:00 PM
yeah there were no available upgrades at wr btwn the years of 2000-2004 in the entire league

you said #1's...and i am trying to remember a WR who was signed with a new team to be a #1 and actually turned into a #1

you claim to be able to be a better GM...so let's have at it.

modern day vince lombardi is not andy reid...anyway what do qualifications have to do with it...im not saying id be hired to coach the eagles...im saying that if i were i could do better than andy reid

the worst coach in the history of the nfl had better qualifications than me...but like the god rakim said it aint where youre from its where your at...and if i was in the league as a HC i could perform better than andy reid

im sure a few people on this board could

answer the question

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:39:55 PM
modern day vince lombardi is not andy reid...anyway what do qualifications have to do with it...im not saying id be hired to coach the eagles...im saying that if i were i could do better than andy reid

the worst coach in the history of the nfl had better qualifications than me...but like the god rakim said it aint where youre from its where your at...and if i was in the league as a HC i could perform better than andy reid

im sure a few people on this board could

Who mentioned qualifications? I'm guessing you're a politician as you span your way out of acutally answering the question.

Quote from: Wingspan on December 07, 2005, 12:36:37 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:28:00 PM
yeah there were no available upgrades at wr btwn the years of 2000-2004 in the entire league

you said #1's...and i am trying to remember a WR who was signed with a new team to be a #1 and actually turned into a #1

you claim to be able to be a better GM...so let's have at it.

well between in 5 seasons you mention there has to be atleast 1 WR they could have drafted in their position to become a #1. But the real failure is DAVE CULLEY by far has to be the worst WR coach ever.

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 01:43:47 PM

Quote from: Wingspan on December 07, 2005, 12:36:37 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:28:00 PM
yeah there were no available upgrades at wr btwn the years of 2000-2004 in the entire league

you said #1's...and i am trying to remember a WR who was signed with a new team to be a #1 and actually turned into a #1

you claim to be able to be a better GM...so let's have at it.

well between in 5 seasons you mention there has to be atleast 1 WR they could have drafted in their position to become a #1. But the real failure is DAVE CULLEY by far has to be the worst WR coach ever.

i'm talking about free agents.

Eagles WR drafts since 2000:

00 2 36 Todd Pinkston WR Southern Mississippi
00 4 99 Gari Scott WR Michigan State
01 1 25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA
02 5 162 Freddie Milons WR Alabama
03 3 95 Billy McMullen WR Virginia
04 NONE

Talking about a failure! Only once did they take more than 1 WR, and where are each of these players today???

Stinky IR
Scott? Mitchell? Milons?
McMullen #4 or 5 WR for Eagles would have been cut by any other team by now.

A complete failure to produce quality offensive players by the Eagles coaching staff

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:39:55 PM
modern day vince lombardi is not andy reid...anyway what do qualifications have to do with it...im not saying id be hired to coach the eagles...im saying that if i were i could do better than andy reid

the worst coach in the history of the nfl had better qualifications than me...but like the god rakim said it aint where youre from its where your at...and if i was in the league as a HC i could perform better than andy reid

im sure a few people on this board could

So the only things involved with being a head coach are: drafting, signing and calling plays?

You're an ass.

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 12:15:38 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:11:30 PM
i know for a fact that i can coach better than andy...and im quite certain i can draft as well too

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Without doubt the most deluded post I have ever seen on a message board anywhere!

The truth about IGY finally comes out.  He's a completely delusional wannabe.

This may be annoying but I am going to continue to bump this thread until IGY actually answers my question.

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 01:48:17 PM
Eagles WR drafts since 2000:

00 2 36 Todd Pinkston WR Southern Mississippi
00 4 99 Gari Scott WR Michigan State
01 1 25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA
02 5 162 Freddie Milons WR Alabama
03 3 95 Billy McMullen WR Virginia
04 NONE

Talking about a failure! Only once did they take more than 1 WR, and where are each of these players today???

Stinky IR
Scott? Mitchell? Milons?
McMullen #4 or 5 WR for Eagles would have been cut by any other team by now.

A complete failure to produce quality offensive players by the Eagles coaching staff

reggie brown?

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 01:48:45 PM

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 12:15:38 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:11:30 PM
i know for a fact that i can coach better than andy...and im quite certain i can draft as well too

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Without doubt the most deluded post I have ever seen on a message board anywhere!

The truth about IGY finally comes out.  He's a completely delusional wannabe.

He should be banned. Do you guys do stuff like that here?

Quote from: stalker on December 07, 2005, 01:52:05 PM

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 01:48:45 PM

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 12:15:38 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:11:30 PM
i know for a fact that i can coach better than andy...and im quite certain i can draft as well too

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Without doubt the most deluded post I have ever seen on a message board anywhere!

The truth about IGY finally comes out.  He's a completely delusional wannabe.

He should be banned. Do you guys do stuff like that here?

you're a retard

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 01:48:17 PM
A complete failure to produce quality offensive players by the Eagles coaching staff

Brian Westbrook?

Quote from: Wingspan on December 07, 2005, 01:52:33 PM

Quote from: stalker on December 07, 2005, 01:52:05 PM

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 01:48:45 PM

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 12:15:38 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:11:30 PM
i know for a fact that i can coach better than andy...and im quite certain i can draft as well too

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Without doubt the most deluded post I have ever seen on a message board anywhere!

The truth about IGY finally comes out.  He's a completely delusional wannabe.

He should be banned. Do you guys do stuff like that here?

you're a retard

??? ?  ??? ?  ???

Quote from: stalker on December 07, 2005, 01:55:56 PM
??? ?  ??? ?  ???

We know it's you, stillupfront.

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 01:51:29 PM
This may be annoying but I am going to continue to bump this thread until IGY actually answers my question.

In that case, I'll stop reading because he's never going to answer your question straight.

Quote from: stalker on December 07, 2005, 01:52:05 PMHe should be banned. Do you guys do stuff like that here?

Ass.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 01:57:48 PM

Quote from: stalker on December 07, 2005, 01:55:56 PM
??? ?  ??? ?  ???

We know it's you, stillupfront.

WHAT??

You must be confused!

A couple friends and i sat at a bar during the eagles/giants game near this dude who looked like Chunk from the Goonies.  He was watching the Eagles game AND the Ravens game since he was a "fan of both teams".  The second we sat down, he introduced himself and bought us a pitcher and started yapping.  We then realized he bought us the pitcher so we'd have to talk to him.  Then, he went on to prove he was the biggest douche within a 5 mile radius when he said things like:

- the Eagles will never win because Donovan McNabb doesn't have a winners mentality like TO.  Until he changes his way, which he never will, the Eagles will never win the Super Bowl.
- this guy claimed to know more than half of the current coaches in the NFL
- he said it's always best to kickoff when you win the coin flip in Overtime because it gives you the best odds of winning (Ravens/Steelers was on at the time)

After thinking to myself, "does this moron post on CF?  i seem to have heard this garbage before", he mentioned he was from Philly originally.  Then i began to think maybe something's in the water out there.   After the Eagles lost and the Ravens beat the Steelers in OT, he did the Truffle Shuffle.  Getting  back to my original point...

no one who posts on this board has a clue when it comes to scouting talent, drafting players, managing the cap, managing players, calling plays, or coaching in the NFL.  I'm sure those of you that think you do still are under the belief that if it weren't for an ankle injury in high school, you'd be in the NFL right now.

Quote from: Diomedes on December 07, 2005, 02:01:57 PM

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 01:51:29 PM
This may be annoying but I am going to continue to bump this thread until IGY actually answers my question.

In that case, I'll stop reading because he's never going to answer your question straight.

I fear you may be right. I hope he does though because what he said was the most ridiculous post seen on CF since Card Trader said Brett Favre playing with a broken thumb was tougher than D-Mac playing with a broken ankle.

IGY is a professional playa hata.

HOLLA!

Quote from: Mad-Lad on December 07, 2005, 02:04:46 PM
no one who posts on this board has a clue when it comes to scouting talent, drafting players, managing the cap, managing players, calling plays, or coaching in the NFL.  I'm sure those of you that think you do still are under the belief that if it weren't for an ankle injury in high school, you'd be in the NFL right now.

I hear MURP picked off Jeff Smoker in high school. Cut Lito and get Brandon is what I say.

did some cat with a naked man in his avatar just call for my banning

as for the wr question...the man for five years could not and/or would not upgrade his wide receiver positon...that answers any and all questions that you may have on the subject

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 12:34:58 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on December 07, 2005, 12:32:03 PM
For real! IGY is the bestest coach/GM in the history of football

absolutely not...i just feel as though im better than andy reid

:-D How very noble of you! Do you mind if I ask what your actual occupation is and what circumstances do you think have prevented you from becoming the modern-day equivalent of Vince Lombardi?

Bump.

oh...my bad

i am a contracts (not football) specialist for the federal government

Part one answered. Thank you. Now for part two.

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 02:19:09 PM
what circumstances do you think have prevented you from becoming the modern-day equivalent of Vince Lombardi?

Quote from: Wingspan on December 07, 2005, 01:52:04 PM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 01:48:17 PM
Eagles WR drafts since 2000:

00 2 36 Todd Pinkston WR Southern Mississippi
00 4 99 Gari Scott WR Michigan State
01 1 25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA
02 5 162 Freddie Milons WR Alabama
03 3 95 Billy McMullen WR Virginia
04 NONE

Talking about a failure! Only once did they take more than 1 WR, and where are each of these players today???

Stinky IR
Scott? Mitchell? Milons?
McMullen #4 or 5 WR for Eagles would have been cut by any other team by now.

A complete failure to produce quality offensive players by the Eagles coaching staff

reggie brown?

Still a rookie.

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 01:55:26 PM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 01:48:17 PM
A complete failure to produce quality offensive players by the Eagles coaching staff

Brian Westbrook?

talking about WRs but though Westbrook is a different type of weapon without any good WRs the Defenses will tee off on him. Westbrook is no Marshall Faulk thats for sure!

And who else besides McNabb and Westbrook have really been playmakers that the Eagles drafted, and dont say LJ Smith cause he hasnt been that special.

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 02:35:09 PM

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 01:55:26 PM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 01:48:17 PM
A complete failure to produce quality offensive players by the Eagles coaching staff

Brian Westbrook?

talking about WRs but though Westbrook is a different type of weapon without any good WRs the Defenses will tee off on him. Westbrook is no Marshall Faulk thats for sure!

And who else besides McNabb and Westbrook have really been playmakers that the Eagles drafted, and dont say LJ Smith cause he hasnt been that special.

First you say offensive players, then you say WRs, then you say playmakers. Make your mind up sport! ;)

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 01:48:17 PM



A complete failure to produce quality offensive players by the Eagles coaching staff

Westbrook, McNabb, Andrews, LJ Smith, Jiggles, Reggie Brown

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 02:37:35 PM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 02:35:09 PM

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 01:55:26 PM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 01:48:17 PM
A complete failure to produce quality offensive players by the Eagles coaching staff

Brian Westbrook?

talking about WRs but though Westbrook is a different type of weapon without any good WRs the Defenses will tee off on him. Westbrook is no Marshall Faulk thats for sure!

And who else besides McNabb and Westbrook have really been playmakers that the Eagles drafted, and dont say LJ Smith cause he hasnt been that special.

First you say offensive players, then you say WRs, then you say playmakers. Make your mind up sport! ;)

So in 7 seasons we have McNabb and Westbrook, thats nothing to brag about.

Fine, I'll stick my neck out.

Playmakers drafted by Reid not named McNabb/Westbrook

1. Lito is a playmaker.  He's a risk-taker, and he had a bad year this year, but he's athletic and has a tendency for the big play.

2. Pinkston is a playmaker.  Laugh all you want.  How many big passing plays did the Eagles have this year, even while TO was still playing?  Pinkston was usually good for at least one 25+ gain a game, whether from a penalty or an actual completion.  That's huge.  Is he a #1 receiver?  Hell no.  But I underestimated his loss.

3. Reggie Brown is a playmaker.  How many receivers have made even the contribution he has in this offense as a rookie?  The answer is zero.  This offense is impossible to grasp for a first year receiver, but Reggie has still shown strength, speed, and hands.  How good he becomes remains to be seen, but I believe that if he were the 2nd/3rd receiver with a healthy McNabb, he'd have finished the year with over 800 yards and 4-5 TD's.

Have to get some work done, but those are the first 3 that came to mind.

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 02:40:52 PM

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 02:37:35 PM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 02:35:09 PM

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 01:55:26 PM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 01:48:17 PM
A complete failure to produce quality offensive players by the Eagles coaching staff

Brian Westbrook?

talking about WRs but though Westbrook is a different type of weapon without any good WRs the Defenses will tee off on him. Westbrook is no Marshall Faulk thats for sure!

And who else besides McNabb and Westbrook have really been playmakers that the Eagles drafted, and dont say LJ Smith cause he hasnt been that special.

First you say offensive players, then you say WRs, then you say playmakers. Make your mind up sport! ;)

So in 7 seasons we have McNabb and Westbrook, thats nothing to brag about.

OK, so you think LJ Smith sucks. Your opinion, fine. I guess defense and the o-line don't count though? ???

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 02:44:28 PM
Fine, I'll stick my neck out.

Playmakers drafted by Reid not named McNabb/Westbrook

1. Lito is a playmaker.  He's a risk-taker, and he had a bad year this year, but he's athletic and has a tendency for the big play.

2. Pinkston is a playmaker.  Laugh all you want.  How many big passing plays did the Eagles have this year, even while TO was still playing?  Pinkston was usually good for at least one 25+ gain a game, whether from a penalty or an actual completion.  That's huge.  Is he a #1 receiver?  Hell no.  But I underestimated his loss.

3. Reggie Brown is a playmaker.  How many receivers have made even the contribution he has in this offense as a rookie?  The answer is zero.  This offense is impossible to grasp for a first year receiver, but Reggie has still shown strength, speed, and hands.  How good he becomes remains to be seen, but I believe that if he were the 2nd/3rd receiver with a healthy McNabb, he'd have finished the year with over 800 yards and 4-5 TD's.

Have to get some work done, but those are the first 3 that came to mind.

I would like to add Happy Scrappy and M. Lewis to that list..I know M. Lewis has been disppointing this year :-[

you can also add buckhalter to that list when he was healthy, was a playmaker. there was no way of knowing his knees would turn to old rubber bands.

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 02:22:02 PM
Part one answered. Thank you. Now for part two.

Quote from: henchmanUK on December 07, 2005, 02:19:09 PM
what circumstances do you think have prevented you from becoming the modern-day equivalent of Vince Lombardi?

Just incase you missed it, IGY.

Quote from: fansince61 on December 07, 2005, 02:48:03 PM
I would like to add Happy Scrappy and M. Lewis to that list..I know M. Lewis has been disppointing this year :-[

I think Sheldon is a better overall CB than Lito, but he's asking about "playmakers".  I don't think Sheldon has the nose for the big play as much as Lito (that can be a good thing).  As for Lewis, it's probably just because I'm spoiled by Dawkins, but I don't see him as much of a "playmaker".  He hits fairly hard, but pound-for-pound is nothing compared to Darth.

Quote from: FFatPatt on December 07, 2005, 02:44:28 PM
Fine, I'll stick my neck out.

Playmakers drafted by Reid not named McNabb/Westbrook

1. Lito is a playmaker.  He's a risk-taker, and he had a bad year this year, but he's athletic and has a tendency for the big play.

2. Pinkston is a playmaker.  Laugh all you want.  How many big passing plays did the Eagles have this year, even while TO was still playing?  Pinkston was usually good for at least one 25+ gain a game, whether from a penalty or an actual completion.  That's huge.  Is he a #1 receiver?  Hell no.  But I underestimated his loss.

3. Reggie Brown is a playmaker.  How many receivers have made even the contribution he has in this offense as a rookie?  The answer is zero.  This offense is impossible to grasp for a first year receiver, but Reggie has still shown strength, speed, and hands.  How good he becomes remains to be seen, but I believe that if he were the 2nd/3rd receiver with a healthy McNabb, he'd have finished the year with over 800 yards and 4-5 TD's.

Have to get some work done, but those are the first 3 that came to mind.

Reggie Brown is still a work in progress, lets see him put in a full season then call him a decent pick.

I never said LJ SUCKS, i just said hes been overhyped. He drops too many balls and has a penchant for fumbling near the goaline.

Lito is not as good as Sheldon, IMO.

Buckhalter is a bust, his bad breaks make him that.

But to get back to the offense, if you look at the entire 7 years of AR they havent done a good job of drafting quality O players.

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 02:56:52 PM
But to get back to the offense, if you look at the entire 7 years of AR they havent done a good job of drafting quality O players.

thats the ticket.

come up with your own little tiny list. then when people pop up that should also make the list, you poo poo it. then go on about how short your list is....it's a really transparent tactic.

buckhalter should be counted. you cant factor the injuries in. when he's played he's played damn well. it was a good pick. his knees just dont agree.

Quote from: Wingspan on December 07, 2005, 03:04:34 PM

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 02:56:52 PM
But to get back to the offense, if you look at the entire 7 years of AR they havent done a good job of drafting quality O players.

thats the ticket.

come up with your own little tiny list. then when people pop up that should also make the list, you poo poo it. then go on about how short your list is....it's a really transparent tactic.

buckhalter should be counted. you cant factor the injuries in. when he's played he's played damn well. it was a good pick. his knees just dont agree.

ok so you can count Buckhalter in for what a total of 20 games over 5 seasons? that to me is a bust.  and when i started this i was talking about Offense, and continued in that fashion. I think that the Eagles have done a lousy job of drafting offensive players AND defensive players since Reid came to town.

Buckhalter Draft 2001
2001 PHI 15 129 586 4.5 48 2 28 2 2
2003 PHI 15 126 542 4.3 64 8 28 3 2

There's always been somebody on the offense to help McNabb out, and with the exception of last year it hasn't been a wide receiver. It would be nice if they could spend the first three picks of the draft on skill players for the offense every year, but they really can't.

So, to finish pointing out shtein we already know but you want to whine about anyway, Reid can't draft WRs, DEs, or LBs. Boo.

Quote from: General_Failure on December 07, 2005, 03:12:02 PM
There's always been somebody on the offense to help McNabb out, and with the exception of last year it hasn't been a wide receiver. It would be nice if they could spend the first three picks of the draft on skill players for the offense every year, but they really can't.

So, to finish pointing out shtein we already know but you want to whine about anyway, Reid can't draft WRs, DEs, or LBs. Boo.

im saying maybe they should get a GM who has a better eye for talent. Obviously the last 3 years Reid hasnt gotten the job done. The only diamonds in the rough he ever finds are those Street Free Agents.

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 02:56:52 PM
Lito is not as good as Sheldon, IMO.

But to get back to the offense, if you look at the entire 7 years of AR they havent done a good job of drafting quality O players.

I agreed with you already on your first point.  You weren't asking about solid players, you were asking about "playmakers"... and I see those as two different things.

As for offensive players, I think Reid has done fairly well, especially when you consider that they've mostly been picking in the late 20's in the 1st round.  Most of the young offensive playmakers in the NFL are drafted early.

Who'd they really miss out on as far as offensive "playmakers"?

1999
2nd round
Choice: #35 overall - Barry Gardner
Missed: Kevin Faulk?  Peerless Price?
Let's just say options were limited.

2000
1st round
Choice: #6 overall - Corey Simon
Missed: Plaxico Burress, Shawn Alexander
It was pretty much consensus that Simon was the best player available.

2nd round
Choice: #36 overall - Todd Pinkston
Missed: Jerry Porter
Considering some of the "winners" drafted BEFORE Pinkston (Peter Warrick, Travis Taylor, Sylvester Morris, R. Jay Soward, Dennis Northcutt), I wouldn't say Reid did too badly here.

2001
1st round
Choice: #25 overall - Freddie Mitchell
Missed: Reggie Wayne, Chad Johnson, Chris Chambers, Steve Smith (picked #74)
This is one that can't really be defended.  Mitchell was a bad pick, considering the guys still on the board and how their careers are panning out.
However, I'm not really sure what you were expecting from Buckhalter, a late 4th round pick.

2002
When you get a guy like Westbrook in the third round and 3/4 members of your starting secondary in the first two rounds, that's a good draft.  Not too many "playmakers" available to the Eagles anyway.  They did well to snag Westbrook.

2003
1st round
Choice: #15 Overall - Jerome McDougle
Missed: Bryant Johnson?  Willis McGahee?  Larry Johnson?

2nd round
Choice: #61 Overall - L.J. Smith
Missed: Nate Burleson?  Kevin Curtis?  Chris Brown?

2004
1st round
Choice: #16 Overall - Shawn Andrews
Missed: Chris Perry?  Michael Jenkins?  Rashaun Woods?  Kevin Jones?  Julius Jones?


Let's just say you're giving them a bad rap if you think they failed many, many chances to nab an offensive "playmaker" or "superstar".  When you're routinely drafting low, you're not going to get them very often.

sorry didnt mean "playmakers" more like better than servicable. what im really disappointed in is the lack of players the Eagles have been able to develop in their own system.

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 03:38:28 PM
sorry didnt mean "playmakers" more like better than servicable. what im really disappointed in is the lack of players the Eagles have been able to develop in their own system.

What you're really talking about is WR's, specifically.

Quote from: phillywin2k5 on December 07, 2005, 03:38:28 PM
sorry didnt mean "playmakers" more like better than servicable. what im really disappointed in is the lack of players the Eagles have been able to develop in their own system.

jesus christ, make up your mind

injury and attitude excluded...

2000
Simon, Pinkston
2001
Burgess
Buckhalter
2002
Sheppard
Brown
Lewis
Westbrook
Brock (they couldnt sign him, which was a fargup, but they did draft the guy)
2003
LJ Smith
*McDougle (remains to be seen)
*McMullen (remains to be seen)
2004
Andrews
Reed
Clarke
2005
Patterson(Showing promise)
Brown(Showing promise)
Cole(Showing promise)

(then there is Greg Lewis, Rayburn)

From Sheldon Brown's new blog entry:

Quote"I would probably say that, in the long run and in the overall scheme of things, our biggest problem has been camaraderie. All 53 players have to be together. You can't have 52 players together and one person apart. It's like a puzzle. The puzzle is never finished until you have that last piece, even if you take years and years to work on it. It's never finished until you have that last piece.

"That is what is so great about New England. They kept all 53 pieces working together year in and year out. They believed in what they were trying to accomplish.

"Here, when I look back on it, I wonder if all 53 players we had in September believed. Not 52. All 53. I don't think so.

So I guess that's a shot at TO.  Well TO stated he was going to cause waves and be a distraction if the Eagles FO didn't make him happy....