2012 - Philadelphia Phillies, At Least Cole is Staying

[Geowhizzer]

And these kind of "cake off" contracts happen so often in the middle of the season.

Hamels isn't Carlton, and nobody said he was.  I simply posted that Lefty, a certifiable ace, did have games in which he walked six or more batters.  Even in the best seasons of his illustrious career.

But keep whining.  It's what you're best at.

[ice grillin you]

wait your whole point is that a pitcher who played in the major leagues for almost 20 years had a bad game?

theres got to be something more to this

[Geowhizzer]

wait your whole point is that a pitcher who played in the major leagues for almost 20 years had a bad game?

theres got to be something more to this

And you're going apoplectic about Hamels having a bad game.

hes not a top pitcher by any means....he had one amazing run in october of 2008....other than that hes been nice...but not anywhere remotely close to 6-144 nice

what ace would have gone out and walked six guys in any game much less the first game after you get caked off against your division rivals that you are chasing in the biggest game of the year thus far

[MDS]

He's being a stupid negative Nancy

Hamels, aside from 09, has been pretty good in big games. I cab say that without looking it up. Has he pitched poorly in a huge game or two? sure. but im pretty sure he ain't the only one.

If they don't sign hamels im not sure where they find another ace. That coud set them back years. Right now they could easily win a title if they sell off their old parts and aim for 14, 15 to make it happen.

Halladone, lee, jimmy, utley, vic, blanton, pence. Imagine all the young talent that brings and all the money that frees up.

[ice grillin you]

hes  very good but not great pitcher....hes certainly not an ace....hopefully he will become one before the end of the contract but i doubt it...i think he is what he is...i dont see some extremely high ceiling hes yet to hit

[Eagles_Legendz]

hes  very good but not great pitcher....hes certainly not an ace....hopefully he will become one before the end of the contract but i doubt it...i think he is what he is...i dont see some extremely high ceiling hes yet to hit

I don't have access to look this up right now, but I thought I read in one of his contract articles that his ERA+ the last 3 years (2010/2011/2012) was 10th best in baseball.

I don't think he's a top 3-5 pitcher but that's pretty ace-ish.  And he's been pretty durable.

[ice grillin you]

i mean hes an ace in the sense that he would be the best pitcher on a lot of teams....but imo hes not an "ace"....hes only won 15 games once in his career and never more than 15

[rjs246]

MDSbatsignal

[Munson]

King felix hasn't won too many games either...def not an ace

[MDS]

i mean hes an ace in the sense that he would be the best pitcher on a lot of teams....but imo hes not an "ace"....hes only won 15 games once in his career and never more than 15

without even getting into another debate about how useless wins are for pitchers, take a look at the stat totals for the past few years. three name stick out: halladay, sabathia, verlander. otherwise its hit and miss, some are up there one year, down the next. the point? those three are (or were in the case of doc) in an elite class. you can throw in kershaw and king into that, too.

everyone else, and this is where hamels resides, in that next level, is still pretty farging good.

so, no. hamels isnt one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball. buts hes in the top 10. and top 10 pitchers dont just become available on the open market when they are 28 years old.

[ice grillin you]

agan hes a very good pitcher...not close to a great one

id take shawn marcum at 3-36 over heidi for 6-145

[MDS]

im not arguing they didnt overpay for him. thing is they had to.

first off they arent the royals and they can afford it. second is no "very good" starter will be available anytime soon. hes better than grienke, dont even go there. king, big james, price, verlander...all MIGHT be out there in 2015/16, and even then arent 28 year olds.

if they wanted this caliber of pitcher they had to get hamels and they had to sign him now. hell be more expensive in the winter and no one this good and this young is hitting the market anytime soon.

just deal with it. you want to complain? complain about lee's deal or howard's. or the oswalt trade. or the pence one. they didnt have to do any of those things. but they had to sign hamels. that is, unless you want a rotation full of shawn marcums.

[ice grillin you]

thing is they had to.

no they really didnt have to...thats kind of the whole point...all you stepfords "had" to sign him for a million different reasons none of which had to do with baseball

[MDS]

so if they let hamels walk, and trade lee and doc like they should, the rotation is going to be horrendously awful.

worley...cloyd...and....and...what. you being the king of haters thinks they cant compete until 2020 or something, maybe it dont matter. but logical people see a path to 2015 goodness. and if you want that you need cole.

[ice grillin you]

its going to be awful no matter what...its the difference bwtn having heidi at 150 million or some middle road guy who also has 12 wins but is paid 25 million