2012 - Philadelphia Phillies, At Least Cole is Staying

[MDS]

and again its not like they are the indians and theyd need to restock to make a run 2-3 years from now. you are simply throwing the towel on this year, i.e. a year where they are the 4th best team in the nl east, and getting a few killer prospects for a player you probably wont resign anyway.

the doc trade is kind of out there...it take away their chances in 2013...but if a good offer is out there why not do it? grienke is a FA, hamels will hit the market again, hamilton, upton, montero, howie kendrick are all out there. theyd have tons of cash, too. and for a change, good young major league ready talent.

[SD]

It's not a savior thing, but you can't discount that a healthy Howard and Utley improves the hitting. You don't subtract your 3 and 4 hitters from a lineup then say they won't make a difference once they come back. A bad year for Howard is 30 HRs and 100 RBIs, if Utley could play a whole season he'd still be good for 20-30 doubles, 15-20 HRs and 60-80 RBIs, you don't take that kind of production out of a lineup, replace it with Wiggington/Nix/Thome/Mayberry/Galvis then say "even if they were back it wouldn't matter". That's just ignorant.

I realize they aren't hitting for shtein right now but the season is still young. You don't trade Hamels because you think you might get a decent prospect and you might be able to add a guy like Hamilton in the offseason.

Pennants aren't won in April.

[ice grillin you]

and again its not like they are the indians and theyd need to restock to make a run 2-3 years from now. you are simply throwing the towel on this year, i.e. a year where they are the 4th best team in the nl east, and getting a few killer prospects for a player you probably wont resign anyway.

the doc trade is kind of out there...it take away their chances in 2013...but if a good offer is out there why not do it? grienke is a FA, hamels will hit the market again, hamilton, upton, montero, howie kendrick are all out there. theyd have tons of cash, too. and for a change, good young major league ready talent.

what has doc clifford and heidi gotten them exactly?...in fact cliff lee was the number one reason they lost in the playoffs last year

how could it possibly be worse....id trade heidi in a heart beat and add offense then take my chances with two good starters and more runs scored

[ice grillin you]

It's not a savior thing, but you can't discount that a healthy Howard and Utley improves the hitting.

GRIT is done...he will never be healthy again...i dont understand where the refusal to believe this starts...perhaps marlton?

i dont completely discount choke coming back...but he will never go for 30 and 100 again...he can help the offense no doubt but hes fat getting old and has no achilles

these two guys are not the place you should be putting your faith in

[MDS]

It's not a savior thing, but you can't discount that a healthy Howard and Utley improves the hitting. You don't subtract your 3 and 4 hitters from a lineup then say they won't make a difference once they come back. A bad year for Howard is 30 HRs and 100 RBIs, if Utley could play a whole season he'd still be good for 20-30 doubles, 15-20 HRs and 60-80 RBIs, you don't take that kind of production out of a lineup, replace it with Wiggington/Nix/Thome/Mayberry/Galvis then say "even if they were back it wouldn't matter". That's just ignorant.

I realize they aren't hitting for shtein right now but the season is still young. You don't trade Hamels because you think you might get a decent prospect and you might be able to add a guy like Hamilton in the offseason.

Pennants aren't won in April.

you are missing the whole point. you are assuming howard and utley are the 2007 versions of themselves. they are not. its 2012. one is coming off a debilitating injury, the other's knees dont work anymore. look at how much "offense" they brought in the nlds last year. still waiting for that run.

again, rbis are 100% indicative of those hitting in front of you. when howard was piling up the stats he had 3 all stars in front of him. now he has juan pierre, a totally washed up polanco and an aging jimmy rollins. on what planet is he going to get the same amount of chances with risp. and on what planet has he been as productive as he was back in 06 and 07.

both players are finished. the line up is finished. they need offense. now. and 5 years from now.

[SD]

Howard could hit 30 HRs and drive in 100 RBIs in his sleep.

I and the rest of the universe agrees Utley will never be healthy again, but they got 100 games out of him last season so I don't see why getting him for 80-100 games this season is out of the question.

[SD]

you are missing the whole point. you are assuming howard and utley are the 2007 versions of themselves. they are not. its 2012. one is coming off a debilitating injury, the other's knees dont work anymore. look at how much "offense" they brought in the nlds last year. still waiting for that run.

I'm assuming the Howard/Utley versions of 2007 by saying at the very least they'll produce their lowest hitting totals of their career? Okay.

And getting Howard/Utley back puts Rollins back at leadoff, Vic in the two hole, and Pence back at the 5 spot. Polanco and Pierre go to the end of the lineup.

[MDS]

they got 100 gimpy games out of him and he hit .260. .245 in august, .209 in september and he had a grand total of 1 RBI in the playoffs (though, to be fair, did go 7/16).

that figures to go DOWN this year. he is not a No. 3 hitter anymore and is a barley serviceable major league player.

and btw choke in 2009 at 45 hrs. in 2010 he had 31. in 2011 he had 33. i cant wait to see what he has in store this year!

[MDS]

you are missing the whole point. you are assuming howard and utley are the 2007 versions of themselves. they are not. its 2012. one is coming off a debilitating injury, the other's knees dont work anymore. look at how much "offense" they brought in the nlds last year. still waiting for that run.

I'm assuming the Howard/Utley versions of 2007 by saying at the very least they'll produce their lowest hitting totals of their career? Okay.

And getting Howard/Utley back puts Rollins back at leadoff, Vic in the two hole, and Pence back at the 5 spot. Polanco and Pierre go to the end of the lineup.

oh goodie where does thome get to hit?

i cant wait to see two washed up gimps go against gio gonzalez or mark beurhle for 3 at bats. then a loogy. 30 homers! 100 rbis!

[ice grillin you]

and btw choke in 2009 at 45 hrs. in 2010 he had 31. in 2011 he had 33. i cant wait to see what he has in store this year!

he has all the sings of an incredible fall off....not just in how much his numbers have fallen but also the injury the age and most importantly the body type and weight...every red flag you could possibly hope against is right in his wheelhouse

[ice grillin you]

here comes romey with the all time pro phillie post

[Rome]

I think your Heckle & Jeckle act is hilarious.

It's April 22nd and you've already taken a shovel to the season.

That's not even worth arguing about.  I don't know why SD even bothers.

[MDS]

i love it

pure deniability

let me take you back to rome circa august 2001. "we're not going to get attacked. the government would never let that happen."

now the winter of 1999. "no one would go into a school and just start shooting kids. that would never happen. you are an idiot."

now november 1941. "the japs arent going to drop bombs on us. that would never happen. why even bother preparing for it. you idiots."

i love this guy

[ice grillin you]

i love him too...but yeah pretty much

[MDS]

our top resident homers are handling this in their own unique way

romey - there IS no problem
easy - ignore it/stay hidden
J - jump off the homer train but keep the receipt
donho - follow the leader
sd - just wait till utley and howard get back!
sunny - ?