2012 - Philadelphia Phillies, At Least Cole is Staying

[Don Ho]

holy shtein i just lost my mind when sammy initially held chooch up there

god damnit im not going to last long with this team. they are so farging retarded and unaware of how awful they are.

I usually look forward to the bums playing on Sunday morning.  Coffee, Sunday paper, Phils on in the background. i had no desire to even watch/listen to this shtein today.  Easy to blame the Flyers game taking away from this but I haven't been this disinterested in a very long time.

[SD]

holy shtein i just lost my mind when sammy initially held chooch up there

god damnit im not going to last long with this team. they are so farging retarded and unaware of how awful they are.

I usually look forward to the bums playing on Sunday morning.  Coffee, Sunday paper, Phils on in the background. i had no desire to even watch/listen to this shtein today.  Easy to blame the Flyers game taking away from this but I haven't been this disinterested in a very long time.

99% of the time I have whatever Philly team is playing as my primary channel then I flip to other games during commercials. Today I'm the exact opposite, been watching OKC/Lakers and Bruins/Caps and flipping to the Phils game in between.

[ice grillin you]

i mentioned this a few weeks ago but the main problem with the phillies is that they are supposed to be good...id actually give them more run if they werent supposed to be winning a world series this year

like i said then i wish they sucked but that they sucked with young guys who had a future...theres nothing remotely fun about watching jim thome and ty wiggington on a last place team

also im on bruins caps 95% lakers okc 5% and i cant recall the last time i did that when it was quality nhl vs nba

im really looking forward to rengers sens tomorrow night...seeign the rangers go out in a 1 vs 8 johnson would be incredible

[MDS]

its getting to the point where they should really consider trading hamels and doc at the deadline, or at least try

this thing is over and a few veteran band aids aint makin a difference

[SD]

Stop thinking small market. The Phillies are now one of the big boys, meaning they can contend from year to year. You don't trade the top pitcher in the game just because the team is struggling 15 games into the season. I really had no hopes of them winning the WS this season but I'll follow along like always and hope they make a run at some point.

[ice grillin you]

its getting to the point where they should really consider trading hamels and doc at the deadline, or at least try

this thing is over and a few veteran band aids aint makin a difference

totally agree

giving heidi 24 mil a year would be insane at this point....especially when you could get a bj upton and a starting catcher....or josh hamilton and something else...the offense and the the way the system is stocked right now all point against resigning her to a cain like deal

[MDS]

Stop thinking small market. The Phillies are now one of the big boys, meaning they can contend from year to year. You don't trade the top pitcher in the game just because the team is struggling 15 games into the season. I really had no hopes of them winning the WS this season but I'll follow along like always and hope they make a run at some point.

they need the talent, plain and simple. they cant score runs and utley and howard arent going to fix it when they "get back."

remember they can always sign hamels back, youre just trading him to get 1 or 2 killer prospects. doc, since he has 1 year left and is better, would net more.

what youre basically doing is throwing the towel on this year, then you take the young major league ready talent and combine it with some free agent spending next year. maybe 2013 isnt a world series year but its the building block for one. by 2014 youre good to go.

the only way this works is if they get really good young ready to fly talent back. getting A ball prospects, no matter how good, wont work. im not a baseball america geek but i would assume there are teams who would hand cole/doc and who have a 5-star young guy either at AAA or already on the club

[Munson]

PRoblem with that line of thinking is you can do that same thing (toss away 2013, gear up to make a run in 2014) without having to get rid of Doc or Hamels...They could resign Hamels, deal with a shtein offense in 2013, and then use money from all the contracts coming off the books + the increase in the luxury tax to sign a few bats.

[ice grillin you]

the only way this works is if they get really good young ready to fly talent back. getting A ball prospects, no matter how good, wont work. im not a baseball america geek but i would assume there are teams who would hand cole/doc and who have a 5-star young guy either at AAA or already on the club

he would bring a haul....look at what mat latos and gio gonzalez got for their teams....heidi would bring more

[SD]

Stop thinking small market. The Phillies are now one of the big boys, meaning they can contend from year to year. You don't trade the top pitcher in the game just because the team is struggling 15 games into the season. I really had no hopes of them winning the WS this season but I'll follow along like always and hope they make a run at some point.

they need the talent, plain and simple. they cant score runs and utley and howard arent going to fix it when they "get back."

remember they can always sign hamels back, youre just trading him to get 1 or 2 killer prospects. doc, since he has 1 year left and is better, would net more.

what youre basically doing is throwing the towel on this year, then you take the young major league ready talent and combine it with some free agent spending next year. maybe 2013 isnt a world series year but its the building block for one. by 2014 youre good to go.

the only way this works is if they get really good young ready to fly talent back. getting A ball prospects, no matter how good, wont work. im not a baseball america geek but i would assume there are teams who would hand cole/doc and who have a 5-star young guy either at AAA or already on the club

The Phillies are a business in which their model is successful...the teams future now hinges on filling seats and gaining revenue, not trading away a guy who won a world series for you and another guy who is probably the best pitcher in the game. That's bass ackwards thinking. They're not getting more for Doc than what they traded for him and last time I looked Kyle Drabek and Michael Taylor [yes I realize he was traded to the A's] aren't exactly lighting the world on fire. When you have good starting pitching you always have a chance at making a run. I realize you're just a frustrated fan but rebuilding or combining young minor league talent that's unproven then combining it with what they currently have doesn't work with baseball. If I'm wrong then show me a team that's successfully traded away their two top pitchers for minor leaguers then combined them with what they have and made a run. If the Giants traded away Lincecum and Cain for minor league prospects you'd call them crazy. The best thing the Phils can do is A] stay the course and hope they can hover around until Chase/Howard comes back. Yes I realize they're both 'done' in your eyes but Howard is good for 120+ RBIs and Utley is better than Galvis. Combine that with hoping the rest of the team starts to hit. B] go over the luxury tax threshold and make a move for a bat.

[PhillyPhreak54]

6-1 eh? They could make the game 23 innings long today and they'd never catch up.

I see I missed nothing while asleep.

[ice grillin you]

Stop thinking small market. The Phillies are now one of the big boys, meaning they can contend from year to year. You don't trade the top pitcher in the game just because the team is struggling 15 games into the season. I really had no hopes of them winning the WS this season but I'll follow along like always and hope they make a run at some point.

they need the talent, plain and simple. they cant score runs and utley and howard arent going to fix it when they "get back."

remember they can always sign hamels back, youre just trading him to get 1 or 2 killer prospects. doc, since he has 1 year left and is better, would net more.

what youre basically doing is throwing the towel on this year, then you take the young major league ready talent and combine it with some free agent spending next year. maybe 2013 isnt a world series year but its the building block for one. by 2014 youre good to go.

the only way this works is if they get really good young ready to fly talent back. getting A ball prospects, no matter how good, wont work. im not a baseball america geek but i would assume there are teams who would hand cole/doc and who have a 5-star young guy either at AAA or already on the club

The Phillies are a business in which their model is successful...the teams future now hinges on filling seats and gaining revenue, not trading away a guy who won a world series for you and another guy who is probably the best pitcher in the game. That's bass ackwards thinking. They're not getting more for Doc than what they traded for him and last time I looked Kyle Drabek and Michael Taylor [yes I realize he was traded to the A's] aren't exactly lighting the world on fire. When you have good starting pitching you always have a chance at making a run. I realize you're just a frustrated fan but rebuilding or combining young minor league talent that's unproven then combining it with what they currently have doesn't work with baseball. If I'm wrong then show me a team that's successfully traded away their two top pitchers for minor leaguers then combined them with what they have and made a run. If the Giants traded away Lincecum and Cain for minor league prospects you'd call them crazy. The best thing the Phils can do is A] stay the course and hope they can hover around until Chase/Howard comes back. Yes I realize they're both 'done' in your eyes but Howard is good for 120+ RBIs and Utley is better than Galvis. Combine that with hoping the rest of the team starts to hit. B] go over the luxury tax threshold and make a move for a bat.

thats tunnel vision...its not just the prospects they would get back its the 25 million they could use to get multiple players...like a josh hamilton or bj upton

hamilton/upton + a starting catcher + a load of prospects >>>>> heidi

[Munson]

Get off of BJ Upton's cock he's overrated.

They're not gonna spend 25 million on Josh Hamilton either.


Sign Hamels, wait for the money to free up after the 2013 season to make your move for 2014.

[MDS]

The best thing the Phils can do is A] stay the course and hope they can hover around until Chase/Howard comes back. Yes I realize they're both 'done' in your eyes but Howard is good for 120+ RBIs and Utley is better than Galvis. Combine that with hoping the rest of the team starts to hit. B] go over the luxury tax threshold and make a move for a bat.

first off drabek is pitching terrific for the jays. that trade was under different circumstances and id do it all over gain. totally werth it to get the best pitcher in the game and make a run.

second you and everyone need to get off this utley/howard thing. its not 2007 anymore. neither player is really good anymore, and utley legit might never play another game. if you are counting on them to come back and carry the offense you are an idiot. plain and simple.

howard "drove" in runs because people were on base all the time. people like rollins, polanco and utley. news flash. those 3 arent getting on base as much anymore. therefore howard wont have as many rbis. he was among the league leaders in chances with risp and since he doesnt totally suck, he came through on enough of those chances. good for him.

again, you have hof brown toiling away in the minors while you try to win games with a slap hitting 35 year old singles hitters. you have 2 unbelievable trade chips. you can get young cheap major league ready talent. you can get howard and utley circa 2005 RIGHT NOW. its a 1 season step back. by 2013 they would be a playoff contender, by 2014 a title contender.

[ice grillin you]

yeah i will never understand the choke GRIT savoir concept/theory

its over people...time to move on