2012 - Philadelphia Phillies, At Least Cole is Staying

[ice grillin you]

theres like a 5% chance the nationals wont be better than the phillies over at least the next five years

so yes anything is possible

gotta remember too the nationals are arguably the best team in the majors...its not like they are just the best team in the divison and won the nl east this year because it was down

[MDS]

also remember they should have some money to spend and could easily get bourn to leadoff and play cf (which makes harper an insanely good lf).

on top of next year they will have a full year of storen and starsburg shouldnt have that gay innings count.

so basically they are really good and are winning the nl east for the foreseeable future

[ice grillin you]

yeah the lerners have more money than they could ever spend

the nats also still have a good farm system even with the prospects that have come up over the last few years....it might even be top ten....whereas phillies are bottom five

[MDS]

and the phillies supposed 2013 success hinges of old people (doc, lee, chooch, choke, utley) miraculously playing like their 25 again. also they are starting freddy galvis at 3rd. meanwhile everyone on the nationals is under 30.

the best thing i can say is im prepared for an 82 win season so if they somehow get that wild card thing then good job fellas.

[PhillyPhreak54]

farg Washington.

[Rome]

IGY & MDS are assuming the Phillies are going with the same lineup of aging stars.  They're not.  They're going to infuse the lineup with younger talent.  Teams with 175 million dollar payrolls don't rebuild; they re-tool, and that's what going to happen here.

In short, pull up your britches and quit your caterwauling about the Phillies are stuck in mediocrity forever because it just ain't true.

[MDS]

what 'younger talent' are they re tooling with?

freddy galvis and domonic brown? darren ruff and sabastian valle?

lol

[PhillyPhreak54]

Speaking of Ruf

Two more homers tonight.

In the last three games against Nats the Phil's have scored 7 runs...all driven in by Ruf.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Who is this Brummlett guy? A ginger with a mullet?!

[Don Ho]

Oh my God, did you see HOF try to play that ball hit down the line in right? 

Bast ardo just keeps getting worse.

[Don Ho]

Howard, if his power doesn't return full force, is a huge liability - a .220, 25 HR, 75 RBI Rob Deer albatross.

Lee looked pretty good in the second half.  I am worried about Halladay's arm troubles this season. 

The bullpen imploded last season, and the bullpen imploded this season.  Do you trust Ruben Amaro to fix it?  And Papelbon actually had a good season, all protestations aside - a few major blow-ups, but overall a good season.

And on the other side, do you foresee Ruiz batting in the .320s again?  As much as I love the guy, he's a catcher on the wrong side of 30.

All 100% right on.  Choke will be lucky to even be a shell of what he was.
Suddenly I'm not so worried about Lee.  I think Doc is in trouble.  Something ain't right. 
Bullpen? More like Bullshtein.  Papsmear actually pitched ok.  Unfortunately that last implosion in Atlanta will stick in our heads all offseason.
Chooch picked a hell of a time for a career year.  No one is going to remember it.

[ice grillin you]

IGY & MDS are assuming the Phillies are going with the same lineup of aging stars.  They're not.  They're going to infuse the lineup with younger talent.  Teams with 175 million dollar payrolls don't rebuild; they re-tool, and that's what going to happen here.

a big reason why teams can sometimes re tool though is that they sepnd a shteinload of money on scouting and free agent prospects that no one else will bid on...the phillies effort in that area does not match their payroll and they are lacking...

also i cant recall another team having so many good players get old at the same time...retooling is having to replace a couple main guys...they basically have to replace half their roster over the next couple of years and also make sure every player they acquire pans out...this simply not going to happen...

the phillies did an amazing job from around the turn of the century until their world series in 2008 of hitting a home run on prospects that would become the best at their position in franchise history....i mean think about it....the franchise is 130 years old and they had no less than three players all in their prime at the same time who were the best in club history at their respective positions..and thats a huge credit to the front office and scotuing depts...but because they ahd a perfect storm of players coming together like that they also now have the perfect storm of all these players getting old at the same time

then you have the smug issue...the phils by hiring pat gillick gave themselves the perfect mix of an already homegrown established talent base with the ultimate gm who could sprinkle his magic dust over the roster and POOF! get over the hump and win a world series championship...if they still had a gillick then maybe you could put forth a little more faith that they could "retool"...but rube is in way over his head on this one...

bottom line is you neeed a lot more than simply money to rebuild a team...payroll helps but it isnt a cure all as you are suggesting

[MDS]

you are talking to people who all go home and sleep in their red phillies PJs, they are in absolute denial over where this team is headed over the next few years

and look at their farm system. guys who could be ready within 1-2 years or already are up
tommy joseph (catcher)
sabastian valle (catcher)
darin ruff (babe)
cesar hernandez (2b)
tyson gillies (crazy)
freddy galvis (ss)
lolmonic brown (of)
trevor may (sp)
tyler cloyd (greg maddux circa 2003, the mediocre version)

this is not exactly the floorplan for a title. some of these guys might pan out and be ok, one or two might wind up being good. but the next utley, howard, jimmy, etc. are not here and in fact were all traded away to win the world series they never won.

[Don Ho]

We had all better get use to sniffing the Nats ass for the foreseeable future.  This team is L O A D E D.  Young, deep and full of talent.

HA!  Even the Nationals crowd booed Papsmear as he was walked off the mound after giving up a 2 run bomb to Morse.

[Don Ho]

WTF is a Tyosn Brummett?