2009 Phillies Offseason Thread

[smeags]

yeah i have no issue with heavy b. in fact i like him. you just can't try to put him in the same hemisphere as lee.

[ice grillin you]

also lee as a number 1 or 2 for a lot of his career has had to face the other teams stud pitchers far more often than blanton whos basically been a 3-4 guy

put lee as the phillies 4 this year and blanton as their 1 and blanton is 6-18 while lee wins 20

the reason you dont see 20 game winners that often is because the best pitchers steal wins from each other

[smeags]

yeah i have no issue with heavy b. in fact i like him. you just can't try to put him in the same hemisphere as lee.

[PhillyGirl]

Roy lookin' good so far.

[Sgt PSN]

maybe it's just me, but i've never bought into the concept that a team's #1 pitcher faces tougher opposition consistantly throughout the course of a season. 

on opening day, yes.  my #1 vs your #1.  and i suppose it stays that way through the first few weeks or a month into the season, but then you get players going on the dl and missing starts or a minor injury that forces a pitcher to miss a start.  and when you factor in off days on the schedule, you get alot of #1 vs #4 or #2 vs #3 and what not throughout the majority of the year. 

[mpmcgraw]

You are 100% right sarge. 

Its mostly luck of the draw.  That's why Moyer had double digit wins last year. 

[smeags]

fact remains that lee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blanton

[Sgt PSN]

i think moyer got his wins because the offense gave him quality run support in most of his starts.  if i'm not mistaken, when moyer went to the pen he had the highest run support (or maybe 2nd highest) of any phillies starting pitcher up to that point.  a potent offense will certainly extend a mediocre/below average pitchinig performance an extra inning or 2 because it's alot easier for a manager to decide to leave a guy in there in the 5th or 6th inning when he's sitting on a 5 run lead.  try and get that extra inning or 2 out of your starter so you can save the pen.     

[ice grillin you]

   In 2009, the 30 Opening Day starters combined for 824 starts, and around 20% were against fellow #1 starters, more than any other single rotation spot. 

Some starters oppose more fellow aces than others. Justin Verlander faced the opposition's ace 11 times in 35 starts, the most in the majors. The runner-up was Brad Penny, who faced 9 aces during his 24 starts with the Red Sox but just one in 6 starts with the Giants. Penny went 7-8 for Boston but 4-1 while with San Francisco. (He also cut his ERA in half, which surely played a role in the improvement.)   

and thats only #1 vs #1...it doesnt account for how many times a #1 faces a #2...are there multiple factors that go into who you face in any particular game of course....but simple math tells you top line guys will face other top line guys more often than not

[mpmcgraw]

So there are 5 possible opponents for a #1 pitcher to face and they faced the other #1 1/5th of the time?

What a bombshell

[smeags]

i am floored that this discussion is still even going on. who cares how many times lee faced the opposing team's #1, bottom line is it certainly was much more frequent than blanton.

also, wins as a stat is overrated to begin with. i guarantee you lee has has more "quality" starts than blanton which is a better measurement.

also -

lee career era = 3.97 - blanton 4.21

again i amazed rome was able to stir up this debate at all.

[ice grillin you]

they face pitchers that werent even in a rotation to begin the year and those count as 6+ starters...they could be a tommy hanson or they could be a antonio basticho...in other words its divided by more than five

am i really having to explain that top fo the rotation guys face other top of the rotation guys more than end of rotation pitchers...tell me im not

[mpmcgraw]

Unless someone goes to a six man rotation there is still #1-#5 pitchers. 

[ice grillin you]

youll have to take that one up with your buddy bb

[mpmcgraw]

youll have to take that one up with your buddy bb

i am not your baby