2009 Phillies Offseason Thread

[LBIggle]

doesn't aumont have a degenerative hip or some shtein?

and a deaf outfielder?  i'm sure he gets great jumps off the ball.

sounds like we took some garbage of the M's hands for them so in return they would save the phillies from their salary "hell".  i seriously can't believe they wouldn't keep lee at $9 mil. when it obviously gives you an infinitely better chance of winning the series again.  they are still the team to beat in the nl and they still can't beat the yankees. 

[ice grillin you]

yeah i would have kept lee for another year and took my chances in signing halladay next offseason or another big time pitching free agent like a beckett

i dont get the urgency in trading all those prospects right now just to swap lee for halladay

[Drunkmasterflex]

My guess would be that the Phillies think that Halladay is clearly better than Lee. 

Did anybody see that piece that ESPN did this past season at the trading deadline? It was pretty interesting it was showing that in baseball there are very few trades that help both teams, it was more geared toward deadline deals.  I think it is applicable here though, because if none of the prospects pan out, it basically is a Lee for Halladay deal. 

[ice grillin you]

blue jays already moved taylor to oakland for a 3b prospect

[Rome]

Given that this seems to be two seperate trades, the reality of the situation is that no matter how good of a pitcher your just not going to get much for them when they only have one year left on a deal and everyone knows they won't even consider signing a contract extension with the team they are with before free agency. I get that, and I think the prospects we got for Lee are actually pretty decent value all things considered.

What kills me is that the only reason Lee is being traded now is because A) money, if it wasn't for money we could have kept Lee in the first place and its also the only reason we are giving up thos prospects B) they felt like if they were going to trade Lee it would have to be right away. Why? I don't know. It makes no sense.

Just goes to show you that the powers that be in the Phillies upper management still have no idea what they are doing. Many of the moves Amaro has made over his tenure have been mind numbingly stupid. Some of them worked out, but more in of throw a bunch of **** at the wall see what sticks kind of way. There is no doubt in my mind the Amaro era is going to be incredibly frustrating

.

I wrote basically this yesterday on the EMB and got drilled for it.

[MDS]

yeah i would have kept lee for another year and took my chances in signing halladay next offseason or another big time pitching free agent like a beckett

i dont get the urgency in trading all those prospects right now just to swap lee for halladay

its more than that dook

halladay >>> lee
halladay is gonna wind up being cheaper than lee
as highly as they had drabek rated whoever this guy they got back from seattle must be in the same ballpark to them as drabek. taylor was expendable seeing as one of vic and werth will be long termed, brown will play one place and the other of spot can be a random vet replacement.

in amaros eyes he basically downgraded from future ace to future three, got the best pitcher in baseball and a couple of other wild cards for a possibly future solid major leaguer that probably wont be a player until utley and rollins are retired.

you do realize how lucky you need to get to have the rollins, utley, howard, werth, hamels thing pay out. like if those guys arent studs this is a 85 win team. brown, taylor, drabek could all wind up being average. we have no idea.

[Eaglez]

The Toronto/Phils deal I'm OK with because they worked out a deal for Halladay long-term.  The Phils/Mariners deal is the one that I'm having a hard time coming to grips with.  Doesn't seem like they are getting enough value for Lee when the Blue Jays got pretty good value for Halladay when both pitchers are in the same position (final year of contract). 

They must think Aumont will step in for Lidge when Lidge's contract expires.  Only if they think Aumont is going to be the closer of the future would trading Lee for him make much sense (the other guys seem like warm bodies that may or may not pan out). 

[MDS]

they didnt give lee away for $
if it was for $ then blanton would have gone or they would have bought out moyer

it was for the youngins. i have no idea who they are or if theyre good. i dont scout the minor leagues for a living like monk does. gonna have to trust amaro and co. that they know these pups are gonna be players in a few years like we seem to think drabek and taylor are. 

[PhillyGirl]

My question, and forgive me if this was already discussed, is why didn't they trade for Halladay in the summer and given Drabek/Brown, etc to Toronto then? Does anyone think the WS might have had a different outcome with Lee AND Halladay?

[Rome]

If it's young guys they're looking for then they should have kept Lee for the entire year then taken the two #1 draft picks he would have brought in free agency.

Epically stupid move on the Amaro's part especially considering Toronto is paying the Phillies 6 million for taking Halladay.

[ice grillin you]

yeah and halladay could get hurt or suck because of age

aumont is not even close to being in the same league as drabek as a prospect

and pretty much every player on the team outside of utely will be a free agent by 2011

[MDS]

price dropped for halladay now that its a season as opposed to a season + half of one.

also their douche gm jp riccardi is gone and the new guy is rebuilding his mess. riccardi had a ego the size of texas and wasnt going to give halladay away unless he raped the phils farm system.

[Rome]

In three years the Phillies will be laden with an aging, injury-prone roster of overpaid stars on downward career trajectories. 

Halladay will fit in perfectly.

[MDS]

yeah and halladay could get hurt or suck because of age

drabek could throw out his arm again tomorrow. and taylor could tear an acl. cant worry about that stuff unless a guy has a history of it.

aumont is not even close to being in the same league as drabek as a prospect

according to baseball america? im saying the phillies people must think highly enough of this guy that he can the no1 pitcher in the farm system now. i have no idea if hes good or not. all we can do is hope rube is right.

and pretty much every player on the team outside of utely will be a free agent by 2011

yup. thats why they wanted to get halladay for these 2 years. lee wasnt gonna extend. they wanted to go for it these 2 years then start over. lee would have had to have gotten a 6 or 7 year deal after next year which would cripple them as having big $ tied up to an ace for a team that wasnt gonna win anything. now they have a guy tied up for 4 years and they can win 2 ws and maybe sneak in for 1 more in 2011 ala a 1983 phils run.

its for these next 2 years.

[ice grillin you]

so they traded drabek and taylor so that they could have halladay for one year (2011)

2010 they could have had lee anyway so you take out that year

and ill admit halladay is slightly better than lee but not drabek and taylor better...and age wise its certainly not a given that he will be better....i just think its to big of a price to pay for essentially a lateral move