2009 Flyers Offseason Thread

[MDS]

i was born in 87 and thus really cant talk much about the 80's flyers team, but how can they possibly be the greatest teams of all time if they hoisted a grand total of 0 stanley cups?

one day youll realize best of anything...player team coach franchise whatever = havas' favorite

youll also grow up one day to realize that theres more to sports than what sports illustrated bob simmons or ken burns tells you

i can understand that the team was awesome, but in no way shape or form should any team that won 0 titles be considered the goat

[SunMo]

http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2009/06/29/sports/doc4a48345496243767869589.txt

Parent: Pronger's arrival better late than never
Published: Monday, June 29, 2009

Rob Parent

Paul Holmgren didn't waste time at the NHL's Longest One-Round Draft Affair Friday night to do something that the Flyers hadn't been able to pull off for too long ...

Man, it has been a long time since this team had a talented, two-way butt-kicker on the blue line and locker-room leader rolled into one.

Chris Pronger has been all of that since not long after fresh-faced Hartford Whalers general manager Paul Holmgren drafted Pronger in 1993.

Too many years later, that move is paying off for Flyers fans.

The most obvious example of an effective leader on and off the ice for the Flyers of recent seasons was former captain Keith Primeau, who seemed to get better at the role as he aged. Primeau, as skilled at plastering a few bodies along the boards as he was at wallpapering a few names in the clubhouse from time to time, came into his own during the 2004 playoffs.

That Flyers team of somewhat off-the-wall veterans didn't have the young talent that the Tampa Bay Lightning did, yet might have been the better team of those two East beasts. Injuries to the defense killed the Flyers in that series, but that only was because this club's defense never has been deep enough to sustain it through the hard times.

A lost season to labor woes followed by the misfortune of one too many concussions ended Primeau's time as unquestioned Flyers leader. It essentially ended before the club could capitalize on it for long-term benefits.

Just as a physical and offensively dangerous defenseman has so frequently escaped the Flyers' front-office hunters, so has leadership in the locker room too often gone missing.

Even now, Jeff Carter never says anything and Mike Richards too often adopts the posture of silent self-rebuke. Neither Danny Briere nor Simon Gagne possesses the mean streak this team has needed.

Not so long ago, Peter Forsberg could do little but trip over his feet, and Derian Hatcher had too much pain in his legs to be effective.

Jeremy Roenick was too much the on-ice showman to be so respected behind the curtain. John LeClair kept to himself.

Still shadowing this club are the days that Eric Lindros warred with the front office rather than turn his underutilized sense of aggression on the other guys. Eric Desjardins merely muttered under his breath. And Rod Brind'Amour couldn't meld with Lindros on the ice.

With Primeau's development, years of rudderless locker-room leadership ended. With Primeau's premature retirement, again the Flyers went astray.

As for blue-line bluster, despite steadiness shown for years by Mark Howe, Desjardins, and more recently Kimmo Timonen – who at least in the verbal sense is somewhat practiced in the art of locker-room motivation — the Flyers never have been a team that could follow a force from the defense.

For too long, that has been a weakness as much as lack of leadership was. With this trade for Pronger, the search in both of those areas has converged.

This is a player who will walk into training camp as an unquestioned leader; whether anybody with a sewing kit decides to put an extra letter on his jersey hardly matters.

When he was younger, Pronger had occasional problems controlling his aggressive play. We're not talking Scott Hartnell bad here, but there were suspensions incurred. As a mature player, however, Pronger literally has cleaned his game up while still contributing the smart, dirty hit.

Although it seems like he's been around forever, the guy is only 34. Take Joffrey Lupul and his lack of postseason production and Luca Sbisa and his skinny body and all the draft picks you want — this trade is something the Flyers have needed for years.

Pronger has superior defensive skills. He uses his body expertly, and has the stick skills to kick his club onto the fast break. He will run a power play, shoot darts from the point and has no problem skating back to clear out the territory in front of his own net.

He'd better ... because goaltending is still a major question.

What Holmgren did with this trade, however, was offer a proper balance to the bright idea of committing Ray Emery to sign on July 1 as the Flyers' new starting goalie.

With Pronger in front of him, Emery's new job of keeping pucks out of the Flyers' net has been made easier. More importantly, Emery's effect on the Flyers' locker room – there was a reason he was kicked out of Ottawa — will be blunted by Pronger's presence.

Of course, if Emery decides to go looking for a good, healthy fight with a teammate ... one won't be far away.

To contact sports editor Rob Parent,
e-mail rparent@delcotimes.com

[Munson]

I don't think Richards has done too bad a job as a leader/captain, other than maybe being a little young and inexperienced at it....But I think he's definitely done a quality job on the ice when it comes to leading the team.

[Rome]

What Chris Pronger actually sees through his eyes when he looks at Cindy:

[Seabiscuit36]

What Chris Pronger actually sees through his eyes when he looks at Cindy:

ha, i'm feeling better about getting Pronger, but they gave up a farging ransom to get the guy.  I find it funny that hatcher said last week that Sbisa was the only Dman with balls on the team. 

[SD_Eagle5]

I'm thrilled about Pronger, short term I can't thing of a better fit for this team. It's long term that leaves me in tears.

Scott Gomez was shipped to the Habs for Higgins, meaning they probably don't want Briere anymore. (shtein)

[SD_Eagle5]

Flyers to sign Boucher tomorrow?

[ice grillin you]

short term isnt any better...unless you believe they can win the cup next year...but they arent that good

and once pronger gets his new deal there goes any hope for improvement

lets say emery does a 180 and becomes a productive citizen and a great goalie...a big if but certainly possible...how would they resign him without weakening the rest of an already not great team

but your right long term its even uglier...they are going to have two old ass defensemen in pronger and timmonen eating up a ridiculous amount of money and no way to move them

until they get some real talent up front i dont see this team being a real threat outside of a suprise playoff run like they had in 2008

[SD_Eagle5]

And Bouwmeester signs with the Flames for 5 years at $6.6 per. So the Flames got a guy 10 years younger whose best years are ahead of him for a 3rd round pick.

[ice grillin you]

win a cup in the next two years or bust

[SD_Eagle5]

short term isnt any better...unless you believe they can win the cup next year...but they arent that good

and once pronger gets his new deal there goes any hope for improvement

lets say emery does a 180 and becomes a productive citizen and a great goalie...a big if but certainly possible...how would they resign him without weakening the rest of an already not great team

but your right long term its even uglier...they are going to have two old ass defensemen in pronger and timmonen eating up a ridiculous amount of money and no way to move them

until they get some real talent up front i dont see this team being a real threat outside of a suprise playoff run like they had in 2008

If it wasn't for Fluery the Flyers might win that series vs. the Pens then who knows after that. Pronger takes the team to the next level, I know he's a bit older but I read a bunch of threads on Ducks fans forums and they like the trade but are pissed off as hell he's gone. Most of them thought they were getting JVR or Carter back before they knew th specifics of the deal. 90% of them said they'd of rather of traded Niedemayer and re-signed Pronger long term. Basically there's no way to trade for a Malkin/Ovie/Kovalchuck so you try to keep your forward depth and go from there.

[SD_Eagle5]

Buh bye Knubsy

[ice grillin you]

short term isnt any better...unless you believe they can win the cup next year...but they arent that good

and once pronger gets his new deal there goes any hope for improvement

lets say emery does a 180 and becomes a productive citizen and a great goalie...a big if but certainly possible...how would they resign him without weakening the rest of an already not great team

but your right long term its even uglier...they are going to have two old ass defensemen in pronger and timmonen eating up a ridiculous amount of money and no way to move them

until they get some real talent up front i dont see this team being a real threat outside of a suprise playoff run like they had in 2008

If it wasn't for Fluery the Flyers might win that series vs. the Pens then who knows after that. Pronger takes the team to the next level, I know he's a bit older but I read a bunch of threads on Ducks fans forums and they like the trade but are pissed off as hell he's gone. Most of them thought they were getting JVR or Carter back before they knew th specifics of the deal. 90% of them said they'd of rather of traded Niedemayer and re-signed Pronger long term. Basically there's no way to trade for a Malkin/Ovie/Kovalchuck so you try to keep your forward depth and go from there.

they have like three or four levels to win the cup...one level wins them a playoff round

im not saying its an impossibility for them to win the cup but if they do it will be because emery stands on his head and someone up front (possibly a giroux) has a monster playoff....it wont be because they acquired a 35 year old defenseman

[SD_Eagle5]

He put Anaheim over the top, ask any of their fans and the team took it to the next level once he got there. He's not that much different of a player as he was 2-3 years ago. Bourque, Stevens, Lidstrom, Chelios etc. all won cups and were productive into their late 30 early 40's.

[ice grillin you]

anaheim was much closer to a cup than the flyers are now...also they had just added neidermeyer who was as influential in winning the cup as pronger...but most importantly they had an elite goaltender...totally different situations

i hope im wrong but i just dont see pronger elevating the flyers all by himself from a first round exit to a cup win...now if they had made some big improvements elsewhere combined with pronger sure that could make the difference...or if they were on the cusp of being a champions and just needed that little extra something like prongers toughness or leadership i might buy in...i just dont see it

theres a difference bwtn pronger helping the team and making them the best team in the nhl