A Thread About Donovan McNabb Being A Hoyda

[General_Failure]

Or he wouldn't be asking for one at all, or demanding better receivers.

[QB Eagles]

Ryan was a good coach in a lot of ways but he had a fatal flaw. He wasn't just competitive, he was pugilistic and had to fight in every situation. Whether punching Kevin Gilbride on the side line or the sneering "you have to ask the guy in France about that," he couldn't turn it off and that was ultimately his own undoing.

Well, that and the fact that he couldn't coach offense worth shtein. If the Eagles had had a different head coach, we'd probably be talking about Hall of Famer Randall Cunningham right now.

Of course I love Buddy's attitude and that nasty defense. But he was a man with limitations and those limitations are what prevented him from ever progressing in the playoffs.

[Sgt PSN]

Ryan was a good coach in a lot of ways but he had a fatal flaw. He wasn't just competitive, he was pugilistic and had to fight in every situation. Whether punching Kevin Gilbride on the side line or the sneering "you have to ask the guy in France about that," he couldn't turn it off and that was ultimately his own undoing.

Well, that and the fact that he couldn't coach offense worth shtein. If the Eagles had had a different head coach, we'd probably be talking about Hall of Famer Randall Cunningham right now.

Of course I love Buddy's attitude and that nasty defense. But he was a man with limitations and those limitations are what prevented him from ever progressing in the playoffs.

while it's true that the offensive coaching was terrible under buddy, a huge problem back with those eagles teams was one of the worst offensive lines in football.  as much as i love donnie mac, there isn't a doubt in my mind that if randall had a line infront of him half as good as what mcnabb's had, he would have had just as much overall success as mcnabb if not more. 

[hbionic]

I must interject Sargey and be a contrarian.

I think McNabb is a smart QB...as much as he fargs up....but maybe Manning, Brady are up there when it comes to QB smarts and awareness. McNabb just kills himself when he misses looks like Baskett naked across the middle in Arizona in the NFC CG.

Randall was mostly talent and less brains. I don't see Randall as the QB who can make reads and adjustments as needed...at least not as much as McNabb does (or doesn't).

[QB Eagles]

while it's true that the offensive coaching was terrible under buddy, a huge problem back with those eagles teams was one of the worst offensive lines in football. 

Absolutely. I put that on Buddy. It's something he basically refused to address, as he kept drafting more defensive playmakers year after year. It's almost like he thought Cunningham was too athletic to require any help from the line. And sometimes, he was. But it's incredible how much that line set back the offense.

[rjs246]

I don't understand how any Eagles fan could do anything but love Buddy Ryan. Having said that, I don't understand how any Eagles fan could actually think he was a better coach than Vermeil or even Reid.

Zero playoffs wins is some seriously damning evidence.

[RezRob]

How would one stack Vermiel, Ryan, and Reid?

(Vermeil)
  (   Ryan   )
(     Reid       )


Usually the biggest Ball goes to the bottom of the snowman.

[Sgt PSN]

while it's true that the offensive coaching was terrible under buddy, a huge problem back with those eagles teams was one of the worst offensive lines in football. 

Absolutely. I put that on Buddy. It's something he basically refused to address, as he kept drafting more defensive playmakers year after year. It's almost like he thought Cunningham was too athletic to require any help from the line. And sometimes, he was. But it's incredible how much that line set back the offense.

yeah, the skill positions on that team were pretty damn good.  barnett and williams was a very nice set of recievers.  keith jackson was the premier te in the game.  walker and byars were both excellent running backs.  cunningham had better overall skill players surrounding him than mcnabb, but mcnabb has definitely had the better line. 

of course, this is why the eagles have never won a superbowl.  they've never really had a "complete" team.  they were as close to a complete team as possible in 2004 but they still had some weaknesses. 

[JackStraw]

Mainstream thinking seems to be that McNabb far and away was/is the best QB to ever hit town. (Van Brocklin aside.) Maybe so.

But if he and Reid dribble-off to the future with no SB, five or six years hence I think they will be regarded no better than Jawarski/Vermiel or Cunningham/Ryan - exciting at times, but ultimately flawed. Randall, while a flake, was mainly only a Hoyda at the end. Jawarski, other than being a slobbering homer, was never a Hoyda much ('cept his Hoyda-like performance in the SB debacle).

The best 5 can hope for now is a SB win, where he will be accorded less Hoydadom then current. Kinda grudging appreciation leaving the door open for some level of adulation which he will promptly shut with some Hoyda back-handed comments to which the town will yawn "whatever" and continue drinking and tearing down light poles.

But regardless, in the final Hoyda-meter I submit in descending order of Hoydaness:

Jaws                      Ryan
Cunningham          Vermiel (though he was a bit of a Hoyda during his contemplated return)
McNabb                 Reid


(And while I can't quant it at the moment, I think Ryan had tougher NFC competition during his time than Reid/McNabb had through most of theirs, allowing McNabb to progress deeper into playoffs before whiffing than Ryan's teams. Again, though, anecdotal on my part. And point well taken - no playoff wins is damning regardless.)

[rjs246]

If you're only talking about who the biggest Hoydas were, McNabb and Reid tops the list, no doubt. But they are also clearly much better at their jobs than Cunningham and Ryan were. And I worshiped Cunningham and Ryan.

[ice grillin you]

theres no way mcnabb is a better qb than randall

mcnabb is coached better and faced much worse competition which on paper will elevate him to a level he doesnt derserve but all things equal randall was a much better qb than mcnabb and its not really that close


reid is definitely a better coach than buddy tho

[rjs246]

There is no way to prove either opinion. Cunningham was one of my favorite athletes ever but McNabb has been better.

[reese125]

McNabb has been way better from a win loss (i know the competition was different) and passing standpoint.

Cunningham was a qb that revolutionized the position with his rushing abilities (way more than McNabb) and did have some nice years passing as well

I think its actually very close, with the edge to McNabb

[PhillyGirl]

Randall was a GIGANTIC hoyda and his teammates hated him because of it.

[ice grillin you]

shtein if he had to play with a teamful players who hated him that makes what he did all the more impressive...can you imagine the offensive line stepping aside and letting people like LT just walking right in on 12


compare that the the extreme coddlelazation of donnie