Health Care Reform thread

[General_Failure]

That settles it, I'm never eating grape jelly again.

[rjs246]

What about grape flavored KY?

[Seabiscuit36]

i heard when you take opiates to drink grapefruits, thats what the dopeheads say to do, guess MMH explained why. 

[General_Failure]

What about grape flavored KY?

One teaspoon every morning and I'll live to 100.

[ice grillin you]

xanax is what im told i need to take if i am going to get over my fear of flying

nah, you don't need any of that crap.  just stop at the airport bar on your way to the gate.  order your favorite fruity drink and then ask them to quadruple the booze in it.  you'll be flying before anyone else on the plane.  or you'll be asleep.   either way, you won't give a farg. 

already tried that...last time i flew i drank a bottle of rum on the way to the airport and sobered up the minute i got on the plane

[Sgt PSN]

thats why you drink at the airport bar dook.  and then fly first class so you can score more booze on the plane. 

[ice grillin you]

i drank a fifth of liquor in less than an hour...i dont think drinking at the bar would have made a difference and i was to scared to drink on the plane

[PhillyGirl]

Doctors absolutely still get HUGE kickbacks. Some even admit to it to their patients.

And ESPECIALLY for vaccinations.

Not from Pharma, not anymore.  We have been sued into oblivion by the gov't on numerous occasions, and I'm pretty confident my company at least doesn't pull this shtein.  Christ knows I take enough classes about it, and I don't even deal with physicians.

Then who is giving the kickbacks on the vaxes?

We were fired/left our previous pediatrician because I refused to play "catch up" with a vaccine that made our daughter really sick when she was 2 months old. When she was 3, they basically told us to catch her up, or we won't see her or your son. They told us that the 104+ fever she had for 3 days as an 8 week old (along with other reactionary things) was not only coincidence, but that even IF it was a vax reaction, they'd rather her have that than not to get the vax and risk catching XXXX disease....even from their own waiting room.

When I asked how, if all of the other kids are vaccinated, would she catch it...they told me...well, the vaccines aren't 100%. Great sales job, douche.

After her 2 month reaction, I did a shteinload of research and put her on a delayed schedule and refused some of them. To try to sell me on this was ridiculous to begin with, considering they know I did all of my research. And then to try to push them on her? Ugh.

I don't believe for a second that they don't get kickbacks. They get them from the formula companies for pushing formula feeding instead of breastfeeding....they do the same for vaccines.

My advice to parents is always...do the research, don't blindly follow what the CDC and your pediatrician says. If you have a question or concern, don't just give the vaccine. You can wait while you read up on it. You can always give it later...but once you give it, you cannot take it back.

ETA: the WORST part was when the doctor told me that he was sick of these parents that come in after watching Oprah and Jenny McCarthy and say they don't want to vax. I just about lost it. After reading 3 books and COUNTLESS websites, I told him where he could stuff his next vaccine.

[PhillyPhreak54]

I'd like to see direct marketing to consumers by pharmaceutical companies banned outright. 

I agree with this.

I'm curious to know how you feel, MMH.

I can't help but thinking that the direct marketing causes the weak minded to think they have these symptoms and to run to the doctor to be checked for whatever malady they think they have. The doc then prescribes this medication and gets kick back for doing so. Is that a fair assessment?

The commercials are downright annoying. I love how the happy actor recites the potential side effects at the end.

As I mentioned earlier in this post, I think direct marketing is the single most destructive thing we as an industry has ever done (to ourselves;  we lobbied like hell for this).  I believe this had a major role in the Vioxx deaths.  Vioxx was approved for RA and OA in extreme cases, but was then marketed to anyone with sore joints ad nauseum on TV, mags, etc.  Celebrex too.  If used as intended, the body count certainly would have been lower.  But, you know, Merck would have had less profit, so...

Pharma is a business, a very risk oriented business, but maximizing profits at patient's expense is bad economics in my opinion.

Cool, thanks for checking in.

One other thing...I don't recall the name of this drug (Procrit, I think), but prior to my grandfather dying, they were giving him shots of this and the price tag was something like 10K per dose.

How is that possible?

[MadMarchHare]

I don't see a single piece of evidence in that entire rant that the doctor was receiving a kickback.  None.  Was he a jerk?  Hell yes.  I got two kids of my own, neither one reacted as badly as yours to a vaccine, but I know it's a risk.

Being honest with you about how it's not 100% doesn't make the guy a douche.  Trying to force the parents to do something does.

As for the Oprah thing, I have to agree.  Too many crackpots out there saying autism is caused by vaccines, when there is insurmountable evidence to the contrary.  While the guy sounds like a typical icehole, arrogant MD, I can understand his frustration.

You need to remember (and I've taught classes to MDs), they are taught to think in algorithms, which is to say not think.  Every problem is approached in a binary fashion.  Try A, if B then C, if D then E.  They're robotic idiots, just like they're trained to be.

[Munson]

I wonder what Dr. House thinks about health care reform.

[Sgt PSN]

I wonder what Dr. House thinks about health care reform.

im more concerned with what the docs on grey's anatomy think. 

[MadMarchHare]

I'd like to see direct marketing to consumers by pharmaceutical companies banned outright. 

I agree with this.

I'm curious to know how you feel, MMH.

I can't help but thinking that the direct marketing causes the weak minded to think they have these symptoms and to run to the doctor to be checked for whatever malady they think they have. The doc then prescribes this medication and gets kick back for doing so. Is that a fair assessment?

The commercials are downright annoying. I love how the happy actor recites the potential side effects at the end.

As I mentioned earlier in this post, I think direct marketing is the single most destructive thing we as an industry has ever done (to ourselves;  we lobbied like hell for this).  I believe this had a major role in the Vioxx deaths.  Vioxx was approved for RA and OA in extreme cases, but was then marketed to anyone with sore joints ad nauseum on TV, mags, etc.  Celebrex too.  If used as intended, the body count certainly would have been lower.  But, you know, Merck would have had less profit, so...

Pharma is a business, a very risk oriented business, but maximizing profits at patient's expense is bad economics in my opinion.

Cool, thanks for checking in.

One other thing...I don't recall the name of this drug (Procrit, I think), but prior to my grandfather dying, they were giving him shots of this and the price tag was something like 10K per dose.

How is that possible?

Also in the same earlier post, I was in a meeting where a director was asked how the price of drugs was determined.  He said, whatever people will pay.  This is not a good answer.

As I said, Pharma is a business, and needs to make a reasonable profit.  New compounds are patented long before they reach market, limiting exclusivity by the time they reach market.  And they're expensive as hell to develop.  To get a cancer drug on the market, one of the speediest paths to approval, costs approximately 500-700 MM.  Drugs for, say, diabetes or arthritis don't get fast-tracked (adequate compounds are already available), and they require a much longer time to monitor efficacy.  These cost over $1 billion to get to market.

Add to that, we aren't very good at predicting efficacy/safety, so only about 10% of all drugs make it from discovery to market.  Many die in late stage clinical trials, after 100s of millions has been spent.  The ones that make it need to pay for all that, and they usually only have 5-7 years of exclusivity by the time they make it to market, which again drives up the price.

Procrit is a biologic for anemia.  That means we can't make it from scratch, but need to harvest it from other biologic organisms such as yeast or plants.  That's very expensive, and purification isn't trivial.  Additionally, Procrit in particular is a derivative, so after it's purified it's modified.  That being said, 10K an injection is probably inflated for the reasons above.

I think the key is to partner with the gov't.  Gov't allow drug patents to be longer, say 20-25 years instead of 15.  Pharma agrees to maintain profit margins, meaning they make the same profit during exclusivity as if the patent were shorter.  This lowers consumer prices.  If Pharma decides to be bitchy about it, use price fixing as leverage.  Pharma can't be run like a hedge fund, and unfortunately right now it kinda is.

[PhillyGirl]

I don't see a single piece of evidence in that entire rant that the doctor was receiving a kickback.  None.  Was he a jerk?  Hell yes.  I got two kids of my own, neither one reacted as badly as yours to a vaccine, but I know it's a risk.

Being honest with you about how it's not 100% doesn't make the guy a douche.  Trying to force the parents to do something does.

As for the Oprah thing, I have to agree.  Too many crackpots out there saying autism is caused by vaccines, when there is insurmountable evidence to the contrary.  While the guy sounds like a typical icehole, arrogant MD, I can understand his frustration.

You need to remember (and I've taught classes to MDs), they are taught to think in algorithms, which is to say not think.  Every problem is approached in a binary fashion.  Try A, if B then C, if D then E.  They're robotic idiots, just like they're trained to be.

Oh, I wasn't saying I knew for sure that he does, but I DO know parents who have friends that are doctors and/or have been told by their doctors, that they get kickbacks. I come from a family of doctors. I know it still happens.

And I don't believe vaccines CAUSE autism. I do believe that children are predisposed to it and there are things in there that affect each child differently. For some, yes, they are the straw that breaks the camel's back, so to speak..and autism IS a direct end result. I know 2 mothers....in real life...who have had their children change (each has a boy) within 48 hours of receiving their MMR vaccines. From smiling and completely normal...to seizures and complete shut down in one and high fever and loss of speech, eye contact and incessant stomach issues in the other. The 2 parents don't know each other. I know them from different walks of life (one is an old camp friend...the other is an old high school friend). If I personally know 2...and lets say you know 2...and so and so knows 2....well, that's just too many.

There are just way, WAY too many children like this to turn a blind eye to the fact that vaccines DO cause damage in many children. And this evidence...not enough and not by the right people.

I just can't believe its all coincidence.

[Tomahawk]

People need to quit going to doctors and accept their fate