2007 Flyers Offseason Thread

[Geowhizzer]

Steve Downie is GAWD Pt II

How long will that suspension be?

[ice grillin you]

idiot doesnt learn does he

[shorebird]

What the farg was that!?!?

Dumbass hockey players.

[BigEd76]

Downie received a match penalty - which means an automatic and indefinite suspension pending a review

[Seabiscuit36]

Bob Mckenzie right on point again

Here we go again9/26/2007

Here we go again.

The NHL regular season hasn't even commenced yet and we are already forced to re-open the debate on heads shots, thanks to Steve Downie's devastating hit on Dean McAmmond.

Anyone who regularly follows this space knows where I stand on it. The NHL, it says here, is not doing nearly enough to discourage hits to the head, but in the broad context of that debate, I'll put the soap box away (for now anyway) and instead focus strictly on this particular hit.

First thing, I was in the building at ScotiaBank Place so my take on it is clearly influenced by seeing the hit live and not being able to see as many angles of the replays as I normally would. Whether that makes me more qualified or less qualified, I don't know.

All I know is that people will debate the issues they usually debate on these types of hits.

Was it late? The Senators says yes, that McAmmond had dished the puck well before Downie hammered him. My sense, both in terms of live action and a quick look at a slow-motion replay, is that it wasn't a ridiculously late hit.It was nowhere close to the Chris Neil hit on Drury or any of Colby Armstrongs hits last year

Did Downie leave his feet before making impact? The Senators says yes, big time. My limited viewing of replays is inconclusive, but our boys back at the shop at TSN looked at it frame by frame and said Downie's feet may have come up slightly before impact but it was not a huge leap by any standards, although Downie's airborne body AFTER the hit certainly created the impression Downie left his feet.

Did Downie use his forearm or elbow or shoulder to hit McAmmond in the head? Again, it's apparently open to debate if you look at it frame by frame. The Senators and many others say it was an elbow. Others suggest the elbow was nicely tucked in and he used his shoulder to deliver a devastating blow to the head, which in the eyes of the NHL is just fine and dandy so long as it wasn't late, it wasn't interference, etc. It's often a tough argument because where does the forearm end and the elbow begin, where does the elbow end and the shoulder begin.

But in this case, this time around, none of it matters a bit. And that's because there is one aspect of it that is so overwhelmingly obvious the rest of it is inconsequential. And that is, quite simply, Steven Downie was looking to take off McAmmond's head and inflict damage, his protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

It was obvious in the building and if you look beyond the isolated clip of Downie hitting McAmmond, it's obvious there on tape, too.

Moments before Downie's hit, he was pounded down to the ice and face-first into the boards by Sens' defenceman Christoph Schubert. When Downie, a blue-chip prospect who plays the game on the edge and often beyond it, got up, it was evident to one and all who knows hockey, who knows Downie, who knows anything, that he was going to seek payback. Immediately.

The minute he stood up and raced back into the play, I turned to TSN colleague Brent Wallace in the press box and said, "Watch Downie, he's going to try to kill someone."

I didn't mean kill in the literal sense, I was using hockey vernacular. The play returned to the Flyers' end, Downie was prowling and looking for someone. When the play went back up the ice into the Ottawa end, he was skating through the neutral zone. My eyes never left Downie from the moment he was hit by Schubert and what I'm describing here is my view of it, my recollection of it, my interpretation of it. This is not trial by video.

Just as he got over the centre red line, heading towards the offensive blueline, he clearly identified McAmmond in the far corner, beginning to move behind the net, and Downie sprinted at top speed. It was clear from way before the moment of contact what he was doing and what was going to happen if McAmmond didn't alter his course. It was like watching a high-speed auto accident unfold right in front of you.

To Downie's credit, I suppose, he did stop churning his legs and began to glide, mitigating the issue of a charge to some degree. But there was never any doubt in my mind what was in Downie's mind, he was going avenge the hit he took and McAmmond was going to pay the price .

And he did. If this was a court of law, the defense attorney would object to me presuming to know Downie's state of mind. Fair enough, but this isn't a court of law. It was so overwhelmingly obvious that Downie meant to do McAmmond harm. And the referee obviously agreed.
The on-ice call was appropriate. A match penalty. Match penalties are assessed for intent to injure and this one could not have been more obvious.

Should McAmmond have had his head up? Sure. Any player coming out from behind the net in that circumstance should do that, just ask Patrick Eaves or Saku Koivu, who were victims of Pittsburgh's Colby Armstrong in an area of ice that is becoming known as Death Valley.

The debate will rage on in hockey whether these are acceptable hits or not. I will get e-mails telling me if I don't like tough hockey, take up curling. And that's fine. I'm not going to get into the broader context of the argument tonight. Let's keep the focus narrow – Downie on McAmmond.

But the NHL has to decide what it wants to do with this particular hit. Technically, Downie is already suspended indefinitely, pending a review by the league.

I would be surprised if he doesn't get suspended, but whether it's for a couple of games or more than that, well, it's anyone's guess. Only Colin Campbell knows for sure whether Downie will be suspended and, if so, how many games.

To be honest, my greater concern is for McAmmond. Having had concussion problems in the past, most recently in Game 3 of the Cup final in June when Chris Pronger elbowed him in the head, you got the sickening feeling in the building that this hit had the potential to be career ending for a player like McAmmond.

Hopefully, he'll be fine, both in terms of resuming his career to say nothing of qualify of life for now and forever.

As for Downie, this isn't about persecuting him personally. I've known the kid since he played peewee hockey against a team I coached. I admire a lot about the young man who has had great hardship in his life. He's talented but he's also capable of being malicious and has clearly had issues in terms of discipline and behavior. And while we can all criticize him for that, the truth is those qualities, even the dark ones, are held in high regard in our sport. Hockey is, at times, a violent blood sport.

All things being equal, Downie was expected to start this season with the AHL Phantoms, but I couldn't help but wonder if after a hit like that, he actually did himself some good in terms of getting a roster spot with the NHL Flyers.

That will all play itself out in the days to come, as will the league's decision on whether to suspend him and, if so, for how many games. And then the debate will resume on what's a good hockey hit and what's not. And some people will say, Right on, Bob, and others will ask if my column comes in men's.

But on this night, in this instance, on this hit, there's no question about what happened and why it happened and to tell you the truth, it sort of sickens me.

[SunMo]

watch your pass...lose your head, it's simple

[ice grillin you]

it def wasnt a head shot...but you cant be objective watch that hit and say it wasnt late and/or he didnt leave his feet...it was a cheap hit period

but more than that how much of a blockhead is downie someone who has a long history of cheapshots to do something when big brother is forever watching him

hell probably get a few extra games just because of the stupidity and the in your face nature of the hit...hes basically screaming out loud to the league i dont give a shtein how much youre watching me or what my history says im gonna do what i want when i want to do it

[Seabiscuit36]

Give Downie the "C"

he's known more for being a hot head and fighting than cheapshotter.  I love everything Downie brings to the table.  He got crushed on a borderline dirty hit by Schubert and returnd the favor. 

[Rome]

watch your pass...lose your head, it's simple

Exactly.  Hockey is a game played by men and written about by flags who couldn't hack it.

[Seabiscuit36]

watch your pass...lose your head, it's simple

Exactly.  Hockey is a game played by men and written about by flags who couldn't hack it.

and the commish is from the NBA 

[ice grillin you]

Give Downie the "C"

he's known more for being a hot head and fighting than cheapshotter.  I love everything Downie brings to the table.  He got crushed on a borderline dirty hit by Schubert and returnd the favor. 

lol...you need to research downies history....hes a cheap shot extroadanaire

the one good thing about this is that if he makes the team the next game against ottawa should be off the hook

[Seabiscuit36]

Give Downie the "C"

he's known more for being a hot head and fighting than cheapshotter.  I love everything Downie brings to the table.  He got crushed on a borderline dirty hit by Schubert and returnd the favor. 

lol...you need to research downies history....hes a cheap shot extroadanaire

the one good thing about this is that if he makes the team the next game against ottawa should be off the hook

So your telling me you know more about Junior hockey than me right?

[ice grillin you]

lol...holy crap where did that come from....dont worry im not gonna steal your junior hockey crown from you

bottom line is i can cite multiple incidents where downie has cheapshotted people...last night was the latest one

[Seabiscuit36]

lol...holy crap where did that come from....dont worry im not gonna steal your junior hockey crown from you

bottom line is i can cite multiple incidents where downie has cheapshotted people...last night was the latest one

i was ready to drop the gloves man

All i know is this kid brings championships where ever he plays.  In the regular season, he gets out of hand, but Homer has been close to him from the day he was drafted.  In the Memorial Cups/World Championships he never pulls that kind of stuff. 

I cant wait to see the next meeting between Ott and the Flyers, its gonna be great.  I'm thinking Stevens dresses 2 goons. 

[ice grillin you]

I cant wait to see the next meeting between Ott and the Flyers, its gonna be great.  I'm thinking Stevens dresses 2 goons. 

if downie plays it should be interesting

but because its really a downie vs ottawa thing rather than a flyer vs ottawa thing stevens isnt gonna dress multiple goons to protect a 4th line rookie who is fairly tough in his own right