2007 Flyers Offseason Thread

[Geowhizzer]

I hate the word (or prefix) uber.  Fingernails on the chalkboard (of course, my school no longer has any chalkboards) annoying.

Carry on.

[Geowhizzer]

A question for the actual Flyers/hockey fans (in other words, shut up MDS):

The Flyers have collected a bunch of talent this offseason.  They've sacrificed a young, talented and struggling defenseman and several draft picks for established players (some still young, some older).  They've spent a lot of their cap space, current and future, on help that will cost them big money in the future, perhaps long after they're actually benefitting the team.

To me, it almost seems as if Holmgren is loading up for a Cup run in the next year or two, going for broke with a team that had the WORST record in the NHL this year.

Where do you think this team stacks up in the Eastern Confrerence as is?  Are they a playoff team?  A possible division champion?  Where do you think they finish (1-8 or out)?  Do they have a realistic chance of actually challenging for the Cup?  Or are these moves of a team frantically trying to keep waning interest of a fan base that began to stay home in large numbers as the team limped through the schedule?

On the surface, these moves bring the Flyers forward quite a bit from last season.  I'm not convinced they are a bona-fide contender next year, and may have actually mortgaged the future quite a bit for these short term gains.

I think you are drastically overrating what the Flyers have let go.  The core of this team is extraordinarily young.  The defense isn't as young, but Rathje is gone and Gauthier will probably be moved.  This team is also loaded with prospects and is in very good shape for the future.  Also, the cap is consistently going up, to the point where most teams in the NHL won't be able to afford spending the max amount, meaning teams like the Flyers/Rangers/Red Wings/etc will be positioned better in the future again to buy whoever they want.  I think you are seeing Holmgren going after younger players with a lot of promise, while mixing them in with proven vets.  This isn't Clarke going after Adam Oates.

Furthermore, what people are missing about the EDM deal is that they aren't just dumping an uberprospect in Pitkanen and getting no promise in return.  Lupul scored 28 goals when he was TWENTY TWO.  He is only 24 now.  He had a down year in EDM last year obviously, but he should be a 30 goal scorer in Philly. 

I think this team is probably 5th or 6th in the East now, with the chance to compete for a cup within 2-3 years.

And Kyle Calder had 26 goals as a 24-year-old with the freaking Chicago Blackhawks.  Where did that get him with the Flyers last year?

Before you notch any player (other than Gagne and Briere, and perhaps Knuble) for 30 goals, you'd better make them prove it.

[Eagles_Legendz]

Lupul scored 28 goals when he was TWENTY TWO.  He is only 24 now.  He had a down year in EDM last year obviously, but he should be a 30 goal scorer in Philly. 

lupul scored 28 when he was 22 and when he was 24 hes scored 16 and was a minus 29 as a friggin forward...but pitkanen is expendable because he had the same down season lupul had last year...i dont follow...and pitkanen is a defenseman which are much more valuable than forwards plus hes way higher rated as a player in general

the spin zone is in full effect

i guess pitkanen "should" be a top line defenseman in edm

Lupul and Pitkanen were both equally disappointing for their respective teams last year.  There is no doubting eithers talent, as both were top ten picks in the last five years.  I happen to think Lupul will do very well on a line with Briere and Gagne.  You certainly don't need to share that sentiment. 

Regardless, Pitkanen was never a good defensive defenseman and he probably never will be.  He is a poor man's Sheldon Souray right now.  I think Lupul will help the team more than Pitkanen would have the next few years, but again, that's just my opinion.  I think the team is set pretty well for next season.

Here is the age breakdown of their projected lines:

1: Gagne (27) Briere (29) Lupul (24)
2: Hartnell (25) Carter (24) Knuble (34)
3: Upshall (24) Richards (24) Kapanen (35)

They also have Giroux/Downie/Nodl etc as forwards who should be ready in the next few years and Parent as a great D prospect.

Timonen and Smith is finally a legit #1 pairing.  Hatcher and Coburn played well together last year, and Kukkonen and Picard should be fine.

[Eagles_Legendz]

A question for the actual Flyers/hockey fans (in other words, shut up MDS):

The Flyers have collected a bunch of talent this offseason.  They've sacrificed a young, talented and struggling defenseman and several draft picks for established players (some still young, some older).  They've spent a lot of their cap space, current and future, on help that will cost them big money in the future, perhaps long after they're actually benefitting the team.

To me, it almost seems as if Holmgren is loading up for a Cup run in the next year or two, going for broke with a team that had the WORST record in the NHL this year.

Where do you think this team stacks up in the Eastern Confrerence as is?  Are they a playoff team?  A possible division champion?  Where do you think they finish (1-8 or out)?  Do they have a realistic chance of actually challenging for the Cup?  Or are these moves of a team frantically trying to keep waning interest of a fan base that began to stay home in large numbers as the team limped through the schedule?

On the surface, these moves bring the Flyers forward quite a bit from last season.  I'm not convinced they are a bona-fide contender next year, and may have actually mortgaged the future quite a bit for these short term gains.

I think you are drastically overrating what the Flyers have let go.  The core of this team is extraordinarily young.  The defense isn't as young, but Rathje is gone and Gauthier will probably be moved.  This team is also loaded with prospects and is in very good shape for the future.  Also, the cap is consistently going up, to the point where most teams in the NHL won't be able to afford spending the max amount, meaning teams like the Flyers/Rangers/Red Wings/etc will be positioned better in the future again to buy whoever they want.  I think you are seeing Holmgren going after younger players with a lot of promise, while mixing them in with proven vets.  This isn't Clarke going after Adam Oates.

Furthermore, what people are missing about the EDM deal is that they aren't just dumping an uberprospect in Pitkanen and getting no promise in return.  Lupul scored 28 goals when he was TWENTY TWO.  He is only 24 now.  He had a down year in EDM last year obviously, but he should be a 30 goal scorer in Philly. 

I think this team is probably 5th or 6th in the East now, with the chance to compete for a cup within 2-3 years.

And Kyle Calder had 26 goals as a 24-year-old with the freaking Chicago Blackhawks.  Where did that get him with the Flyers last year?

Before you notch any player (other than Gagne and Briere, and perhaps Knuble) for 30 goals, you'd better make them prove it.

Actually, Calder was 27 and he was a 5th round pick.  Not quite the same as a 22 year old who was the 7th overall pick in '02, but I do agree that it is safer to take a wait and see approach.  I'm simply saying its not like they are getting washed up players in return for Pitkanen.  Lupul is highly regarded as well.

[Geowhizzer]

A question for the actual Flyers/hockey fans (in other words, shut up MDS):

The Flyers have collected a bunch of talent this offseason.  They've sacrificed a young, talented and struggling defenseman and several draft picks for established players (some still young, some older).  They've spent a lot of their cap space, current and future, on help that will cost them big money in the future, perhaps long after they're actually benefitting the team.

To me, it almost seems as if Holmgren is loading up for a Cup run in the next year or two, going for broke with a team that had the WORST record in the NHL this year.

Where do you think this team stacks up in the Eastern Confrerence as is?  Are they a playoff team?  A possible division champion?  Where do you think they finish (1-8 or out)?  Do they have a realistic chance of actually challenging for the Cup?  Or are these moves of a team frantically trying to keep waning interest of a fan base that began to stay home in large numbers as the team limped through the schedule?

On the surface, these moves bring the Flyers forward quite a bit from last season.  I'm not convinced they are a bona-fide contender next year, and may have actually mortgaged the future quite a bit for these short term gains.

I think you are drastically overrating what the Flyers have let go.  The core of this team is extraordinarily young.  The defense isn't as young, but Rathje is gone and Gauthier will probably be moved.  This team is also loaded with prospects and is in very good shape for the future.  Also, the cap is consistently going up, to the point where most teams in the NHL won't be able to afford spending the max amount, meaning teams like the Flyers/Rangers/Red Wings/etc will be positioned better in the future again to buy whoever they want.  I think you are seeing Holmgren going after younger players with a lot of promise, while mixing them in with proven vets.  This isn't Clarke going after Adam Oates.

Furthermore, what people are missing about the EDM deal is that they aren't just dumping an uberprospect in Pitkanen and getting no promise in return.  Lupul scored 28 goals when he was TWENTY TWO.  He is only 24 now.  He had a down year in EDM last year obviously, but he should be a 30 goal scorer in Philly. 

I think this team is probably 5th or 6th in the East now, with the chance to compete for a cup within 2-3 years.

And Kyle Calder had 26 goals as a 24-year-old with the freaking Chicago Blackhawks.  Where did that get him with the Flyers last year?

Before you notch any player (other than Gagne and Briere, and perhaps Knuble) for 30 goals, you'd better make them prove it.

Actually, Calder was 27 and he was a 5th round pick.  Not quite the same as a 22 year old who was the 7th overall pick in '02, but I do agree that it is safer to take a wait and see approach.  I'm simply saying its not like they are getting washed up players in return for Pitkanen.  Lupul is highly regarded as well.

Double-checked the age, and you were right on that one.  Buggy-eyed tonight for some reason.  He scored 21 as a 24/25-year-old, separated by the lockout year.

Defensive prospects are harder to get than fowards, and especially so for the Flyers.  I just think that the Flyers will come to regret this move.

Believe me, I hope you're right.

[The BIGSTUD]

Even if Pitkanen turns into a stud as an Oiler, it doesn't mean he would've become a stud here. Some people just have to change scenery to blossom.

[rjs246]

Yesterday gets a big fat meh from me. The team is better, but the Rangers getting both Gomez and Drury makes my stomach churn.

[SunMo]

The Rangers made some good moves, no doubt, they are pretty close to the cap and they still have RFA's to resign, not to mention that Shanahan, Lundqvist, Avery, Hossa, and Prucha are not signed.

They spent a ton of money on centers and it's going to force the rest of their lines to be a little thin.

[PhillyGirl]

Yesterday gets a big fat meh from me. The team is better, but the Rangers getting both Gomez and Drury makes my stomach churn.

Too bad neither of them play defense.

The Rangers will be like the Phillies. Tons of scoring power, no defense. Lots of 7-6 games in their future.

[SD_Eagle5]

I was on the beach in Sea Isle when F/A opened and didn't have a signal, got back in time to see the bums win and got a text from my buddy telling me we signed Briere. Initially I was excited because he was the most talented offensive player in free agency and it was a relief to know we got one of the top 3 Centers, after I heard how much we gave him I was a little shocked. I know you overpay in free agency but I didn't think the market for him would be so high. After reading some stuff in the paper today it seems there were a lot of teams willing to pay a similar amount.
As for the Pitkanen trade, I was happy they got decent value after hearing the crap that was being talked about. If Joni's gonna turn it around its not gonna be next year or the year after, its gonna be when he gets closer to 30, and there was no way the Flyers were going to wait for it to click.
As for where we rank after all the offseason moves, I'll say top 4-5 teams in the EC. Its gonna take a while for these guys to mesh.

[SD_Eagle5]

n/m

d/p

[Rome]

The Flyers gave him $6.5M per year while Buffalo offered him $5M per year.

I keep seeing comments as to how much the Flyers overpaid him but I'm really not seeing it.  Giving him $9M/year is overpaying.  Giving him $6.5M seems pretty much like fair market value in the current climate to me.

[Seabiscuit36]

The only worry about Briere's contract is the NTC and the length of the deal.  Again he easily makes this team much better, but my worries about him are the NTC and Injuries. 

[SD_Eagle5]

The Flyers gave him $6.5M per year while Buffalo offered him $5M per year.

I keep seeing comments as to how much the Flyers overpaid him but I'm really not seeing it.  Giving him $9M/year is overpaying.  Giving him $6.5M seems pretty much like fair market value in the current climate to me.

I'm trying to understand how this works, he makes $10 million this season but only $6.5 counts against the cap?

[SunMo]

the cap # is the average amount per year of the deal.

i actually don't know of any benefit for the team front loading the contract