Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[shorebird]

The fact that Shore Bird thinks I'm "far to the left" tells me that he's either never read anything I've ever posted or he's so far to the right, that he thinks being the moderate/centrist/whatever it is I am is to the far left.  I'm all about taking the common sense approach to things, something which the extreme sides of both parties severely lack.

Funny, but thats the same thing I would say about you, although I will admit that sometimes your post drag on so long and are so full of tired rhetoric that I skim over some of them.

[Sgt PSN]

I'm SHORE you do.

Brevity might not be my best friend.  But common sense certainly isn't yours. 

[Munson]

Don't bitch about unjust laws... wait, I mean just bitch about them to your congressmen and * hope * they're changed.  Yeah.

Awesome.

What other oulet do the people have other than the vote? Also, I'm curious, what is it about immigration laws that are unjust?

I think that's been touched on already in this thread with the insane waiting periods. What about our immigration laws do you find as just? We drew imaginary lines and then 50 years ago decided people couldn't come anymore. So now we want to punish people that come here and contribute to the economy and/or armed forces? Makes no sense

[shorebird]

Don't bitch about unjust laws... wait, I mean just bitch about them to your congressmen and * hope * they're changed.  Yeah.

Awesome.

What other oulet do the people have other than the vote? Also, I'm curious, what is it about immigration laws that are unjust?

I think that's been touched on already in this thread with the insane waiting periods. What about our immigration laws do you find as just? We drew imaginary lines and then 50 years ago decided people couldn't come anymore. So now we want to punish people that come here and contribute to the economy and/or armed forces? Makes no sense

Waiting periods are unjust? And what justice do they deserve or rights does a person who is here illegally have?

[Sgt PSN]

Don't bitch about unjust laws... wait, I mean just bitch about them to your congressmen and * hope * they're changed.  Yeah.

Awesome.

What other oulet do the people have other than the vote? Also, I'm curious, what is it about immigration laws that are unjust?

I think that's been touched on already in this thread with the insane waiting periods. What about our immigration laws do you find as just? We drew imaginary lines and then 50 years ago decided people couldn't come anymore. So now we want to punish people that come here and contribute to the economy and/or armed forces? Makes no sense

Of course it doesn't make sense.  It doesn't have to.  It's the law god damnit and that's all you need to about it. 

[Munson]

Don't bitch about unjust laws... wait, I mean just bitch about them to your congressmen and * hope * they're changed.  Yeah.

Awesome.

What other oulet do the people have other than the vote? Also, I'm curious, what is it about immigration laws that are unjust?

I think that's been touched on already in this thread with the insane waiting periods. What about our immigration laws do you find as just? We drew imaginary lines and then 50 years ago decided people couldn't come anymore. So now we want to punish people that come here and contribute to the economy and/or armed forces? Makes no sense

Waiting periods are unjust? And what justice do they deserve or rights does a person who is here illegally have?

you don't see why making someone wait nearly a decade, and in some cases two decades, might encourage someone to not go through the legal means? And again especially if these people are here to better our country either through hard work, educating themselves, or serving in the armed forces. Why would youi be against that? We have a big brain drain problem in this country with college educated immigrants leaving to go home...I don't want those people feeling unwanted and leaving, I want them staying here and contributing.

[Hawk]

There's like four posters on this board.   The rest of the board is far left to slightly left and maybe a couple moderates.   Some claim they evaluate each issue when in actuality they stick fo party line.

Igy thinking Obama is B minus says it all.   When the healthcare law is struck down does his grade improve even more?
Anyone that does not like Obama is racist or uneducated or both.

[PhillyPhreak54]

A lot of good points made in here today. I'm proud of you fargers.

Explain this to me; if the government wasn't selectively targeting an ethnic group in the quest to stop illegals why do they deny even tourist visas to anyone south of Texas? The embassy website straight up says they assume that a person wanting to come here to visit is going to ignore the visa and stay illegally. Problem is that European folks get these visas (some don't even need a visa to come here). Indian, Asian and other people come in droves.

Latins? Stay out, says the US government.

My woman's friends have tried and tried but get rejected. Her friends mom? Rejected. Even though she wanted to come for a nursing conference and to see the sights. She has no desire to stay here illegally as all her family and possessions are in Peru. The reason for denial was that she didn't prove that she'd return. A huge crock of farging bullshtein.

[shorebird]

Your argument about the insane, 20 year waiting period is pretty thin. I've always known that you can apply on line. Have to have had a valid green card for 5 years, or been married for 3 years.

Yes, there are people who go about it in the right lawful manner, and if any immigrant is serious about being a U.S. citizen they would have already started the process, not keep coming and going and taking money out of the country back to thier families. Is that common enough sense?

[shorebird]

I'm SHORE you do.

Brevity might not be my best friend.  But common sense certainly isn't yours. 

And civility most certainly isn't one of yours.

[shorebird]

There's like four posters on this board.   The rest of the board is far left to slightly left and maybe a couple moderates.   Some claim they evaluate each issue when in actuality they stick fo party line.

Igy thinking Obama is B minus says it all.   When the healthcare law is struck down does his grade improve even more?
Anyone that does not like Obama is racist or uneducated or both.

Yup, doesn't like Obama, doesn't like the current situation with illegal immigrants, goes to church, doesn't believe in global warming or climate change or whatever the left is calling it now, doesn't want the government, meaning us, paying for birth control, doesn't want Obamacare, or thinks that the stimulus was a waste and did nothing in the private sector.

[Munson]

Government wouldn't be paying for birth control, people's health insurance plans would.

Stimulus very very clearly saved private sector jobs. And in fact, sicne Obama took office, the private sector has gained jobs while the public sector has shed them. Google it.

And shore you're proving my point for me...in order to even apply for legal status you have to have a green card for 5 years.


Last I checked, it was "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free"....There's no "After 5-8 years at the minimum" after that. That's what people are trying to point out to you....that our ridiculous immigration system just gives immigrants incentive to skirt the system.

[Munson]

Also, the reason why people tend to play the race card is because Obama is doing virtually nothing different from any previous presidents, but suddenly a whole lot of white Republicans have a problem with it and call him a socialist and make claims he wasn't born in America and etc....Basically, if Obama were Jon Smith and he were white as a ghost, there aren't masses in the tea party screaming socialist at the guy.

[Diomedes]

Yay, let's talk about the "illegals."

I actually know people who are affected by this farged up system every day of their lives.  I employ an illegal immigrant in my home part-time, and from time to time I work with several others.  Yes, literally digging ditches sometimes.  These are human being you supposed family-values conservatives are talking about.   

"Rules are rules, sorry."

That's what Conservatives have to say to a 22 year old high school (honors) grad who happened to have been brought to the U.S. illegally--a misdemeanor!--when he was a child.  No criminal record, excellent student, church goer, community service volunteer.  Part time student paying full price for classes at community college while working an ever changing series of under-the-table jobs in landscaping, painting, tree work, and roofing.  In Republican lingo, an "illegal," who is ruining America.

Conservatives say sorry kid, it's tough luck but rules are rules, so nevermind the contributions you are making, nevermind the relationships you have in our community, it's time for you to go back to Honduras, murder capital of South America.  Don't know anyone there?  Don't have a home there?  Don't really even speak the language?  Tough luck, rules are rules kid.  Should have thought of that when you broke 'em.

"They're stealing our jobs"

The immigrants aren't taking jobs away from anyone.  Born Americans are a bunch of entitled lazy bitches.  $9 an hour is beneath American laborers.  They'd rather get themselves on social security disability than work ten hard hours a day in the fields.  This is not opinion, facts are not subject to argument.  Alabama has plenty of unemployment and no one has filled the jobs vacated by immigrant labor, who fled a draconian anti-immigrant law.   It's also worth noting that even the two or three "real Americans" who do take these jobs...their productivity is vastly less, because although the work is simple, it is not easy, and a practiced hand picks tomatoes a hell of a lot faster than even an earnest, energetic n00b.

But in fact, every society has a group of people who are worthless lazy stupid pieces of crap.  These dead weights don't have any real ambition, don't want to work, and won't ever do much of anything to improve their station in any way.  Won't learn, won't save, won't work, won't do shtein. 

It is not, therefore, these people who come to America, who literally invest the life savings of entire families, life and limb, to come here to work.  We get the good ones.  And we need them.  Our own population of society-killing shteinbags is large and growing.  We need a counterbalance.   We need the labor and the sacrifice and the stable modest families.

I propose an exchange program:  for every immigrant worker who can somehow breach the borders and get in, we will kick out a piece of shtein good for nothing slacker American.  Instead of sending Augustino back to El Salvador, we'll give them DeJarious.   Instead of punting Julio back to Haiti, we'll give them Bobby.  Instead of banishing Maria and her three babies to Honduras, we'll put Crystal and her three babies on a non-stop to Toncontín.

Shore, if you got your way and all the illegals were deported, that would literally mean a kid I know who just got a full scholarship to Loyola after graduating 3rd in his class*, would be dropped off at an airport in Honduras.  He had no choice about coming here as a child.   Baltimore is home to this kid.  Do you know what life is like for human beings in Honduras?  I'm telling you that he's just a good kid from a fundamentally good family who got themselves out of hell.  And you'd send him back to it because of a misdemeanor?  Because...he should have told his mother, "no, this is illegal, I'm going back to Honduras?"   Because...I can't really comprehend why.  I find it unforgivably ignorant of you, really.

*Incidentally, at a private high school.  Which is to say, you didn't pay shtein for him to be educated.  Rich lefty Catholics picked up the tab.  As they are doing for his siblings.  Who are also kick ass students.  The little one though, the seven-year old, he was born here...so if you get your way, his family would either be torn apart with him staying here alone and his family going back without him, or you'd be sending a seven year old U.S. citizen to life in Honduras.

Obama was right to take action.  Unlike previous politicians, he is making things happen as he goes into the election.  Gay marriage, now this; two risky but decisive moves.   The conservatives scream "it's being done for politics," but because as even they will admit, Obama may not be helping himself at all with these decisions, their complaints are plainly weak.

I gave him a few bucks for the first time when he announced for gay marriage and I'll do it again now.  As a MD voter, my $25 is probably worth more than my vote.

[shorebird]

Government wouldn't be paying for birth control, people's health insurance plans would.

Stimulus very very clearly saved private sector jobs. And in fact, sicne Obama took office, the private sector has gained jobs while the public sector has shed them. Google it.

5 years is a long way from 20. And if it takes longer then there might be a reason why. Just saying.

Munson, do you believe everything that you hear from CNN? When Obama signed the stimulus into law, the unemployment rate was 8.2%. It now stands at 8.2%, having peaked at 10.1% in October 2009. That tell you anything? Even with the estimate of 2 million jobs created or saved, they came at an average cost of $230.000 each or more, according to the CBO. Also, it's coming out now that the counting of the jobs was flawed, that possibly 30-40% of the jobs were part time, and many of the jobs created or saved have now come to an end. Most of the public works projects, like road repavings and bridge repairs, have been completed. Money given to states to keep teachers, fire fighters and police on the job has run out. Also, the country lost a lot more jobs than had been anticipated, between December of  '08' and April of '09', 3.8 million jobs were lost, and the recession has been estimated to have cost at total of 8.8 million lost jobs.  So really the stimulus was the most costly failure that any president of the U.S. has ever presided over.

edit, dio caught my mistake.