Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[Rome]

The "church's" insistence that contraception be omitted from health care coverage is so monumentally stupid that it fails to warrant serious discussion.

This is farging 2012, for the love of Christ, and we're sitting here talking about whether human beings have the right to be covered under their insurance programs for contraception.  Not even abortion, mind you.  CONTRACEPTION!   

No wonder the citizens of other western democracies look at us like we're a collection of inbred hillbillies.

[Eagles_Legendz]

I agree with that. But the government normally can't tell the church it needs to provide contraceptives, even if we all agree it's farging dumb.  The question is whether it changes once the church branches out from just being "the church", or whether their distinction as "the church" provides a degree of autonomy which can't be invaded even when they function as a health care provider/employer. 

[Diomedes]

I think you're analysis is basically right.

I have a hard time getting past what will happen if the distinction extends beyond actual church activities and officials to schools, universities, charity operations, and other enterprises.  What an appalling can of worms that would be.

[ice grillin you]

The "church's" insistence that contraception be omitted from health care coverage is so monumentally stupid that it fails to warrant serious discussion.

This is farging 2012, for the love of Christ, and we're sitting here talking about whether human beings have the right to be covered under their insurance programs for contraception.  Not even abortion, mind you.  CONTRACEPTION!   

No wonder the citizens of other western democracies look at us like we're a collection of inbred hillbillies.

you are talking about an organization whose whole existence is rooted in a fairy tale...no different from believers in the hale bop...so does it really suprise you that they would not believe in contraception...it becomes even more of a farce when you realize that 99% of catholic women use contraception

But I don't think the question is whether its a good idea, or whether the church is smart or right.  Instead it's whether the government legally can regulate the church in this instance.

they arent trying to...barry met them half way in early february when he said they didnt have to pay for contraception and that the insurance providers would instead foot the bill

I agree with that. But the government normally can't tell the church it needs to provide contraceptives

again the govt isnt doing this....if an employee wants contraception in their health care package the insurance company must provide it without raising premiums...it has nothing to do with the church....its bwtn the insurer and the insured

[Diomedes]

I think you're analysis is basically right.

I have a hard time getting past what will happen if the distinction extends beyond actual church activities and officials to schools, universities, charity operations, and other enterprises.  What an appalling can of worms that would be.

[Eagles_Legendz]

The "church's" insistence that contraception be omitted from health care coverage is so monumentally stupid that it fails to warrant serious discussion.

This is farging 2012, for the love of Christ, and we're sitting here talking about whether human beings have the right to be covered under their insurance programs for contraception.  Not even abortion, mind you.  CONTRACEPTION!   

No wonder the citizens of other western democracies look at us like we're a collection of inbred hillbillies.

you are talking about an organization whose whole existence is rooted in a fairy tale...no different from believers in the hale bop...so does it really suprise you that they would not believe in contraception...it becomes even more of a farce when you realize that 99% of catholic women use contraception

But I don't think the question is whether its a good idea, or whether the church is smart or right.  Instead it's whether the government legally can regulate the church in this instance.

they arent trying to...barry met them half way in early february when he said they didnt have to pay for contraception and that the insurance providers would instead foot the bill

I agree with that. But the government normally can't tell the church it needs to provide contraceptives

again the govt isnt doing this....if an employee wants contraception in their health care package the insurance company must provide it without raising premiums...it has nothing to do with the church....its bwtn the insurer and the insured

yeah I think the compromise is constitutional.  I'm just saying lots of people are focused on the stupidity of the church and their stance on contraceptives (and it is stupid) whereas the initial controversy was a larger question of what the government can regulate in regards to religion. 

[Eagles_Legendz]

and I don't mean to sound like I'm defending these fargtards.

[Diomedes]

Keep in mind that the government from which the pilgrims fled was inseperable from the church, and so it was important to the founders to keep the two separate not just to protect their own religions from what the government might do, but also to protect the government from religion and religious influence.  If the government could be taken over by any one religion, whether it be Anglicanism or Voodoo, that was just as bad as a secular government ruling how and with whom its citizens could worship.

We--Americans generally--have not spent much time talking or thinking about the fact that our government needs protection from religion, but it is vital nevertheless.  Proof of this can be seen by even a cursory glance at the affect politicized churches have had on government.  Free from taxation, and indeed almost any regulation at all by government, they have worked nonstop to push God into government, and to weaken the separation of church and state.   

[Diomedes]

As I go to bed the count is:

Romney takes:  Mass, Vermont, and Virginia (where he had little opposition thanks to poor organization from Gingrich and Santorum)

Gingrich takes: Georgia

Santorum takes: Tennessee and Oklahoma

I predict Romney will win Ohio by a sliver, I'll find out when I wake up.  The good news is that this train wreck is going to keep chugging along full steam.  Obama, no doubt laughing his ass off right now like I am, can keep waiting "until everybody's voted off the island" before he has to start paying real attention to them.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Why are people voting for Rick Santorum?

[MDS]

because of jesus

[ice grillin you]

yeah I think the compromise is constitutional.  I'm just saying lots of people are focused on the stupidity of the church and their stance on contraceptives (and it is stupid) whereas the initial controversy was a larger question of what the government can regulate in regards to religion.

i completely disagree with this

this was a straight up attack on women veiled as a religious freedom thang...again it goes right in line with the attacks on planned parenthood and the ultrasound rape bills that are flying around the country

the whole thing is a complete joke and has absolutely nothing to do with religion...because again if im not mistaken catholics are pretty hardcore against abortion...yet they want the religious freedom to make sure there is a massive increase in abortions?...gimme a break about the religious freedom bullshtein.....this is about angry old men wanting to control women...especially women who have sex...

[Rome]

37% of Republican voters in Ohio voluntarily picked Rick Santorum.

Chilling...

[ice grillin you]

if youve ever been thru ohio youd know why

i drove to cincinnati a few years ago for an eagles game...basically drove from one corner of the state to the other and the amount of religious billboards along the highways there is staggering....and im not talking about billboards advertising churches....im talkin hardcore billboards...like ones that say you are going to hell if you drink

ohio got a lot of the south in it

[Rome]

Romney is a POS but at least he doesn't seem to be unhinged.

Seriously, wtf is going on in this country?   The hell is wrong with people??