Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[rjs246]

I'm sort of angerlaughing at the argument that we shouldn't aim for universal coverage because we can never possibly cover everyone. I mean, if we can't get every last person then we shouldn't even attempt to cover more people.

No one likes the idea of rationing health care, but we have to do something because this country is going to be bankrupt (not just the government but its people) if things keep moving on their current path. I'm ok with spending money up front to get this show on the road.

[General_Failure]

I'm sort of angerlaughing at the argument that we shouldn't aim for universal coverage because we can never possibly cover everyone. I mean, if we can't get every last person then we shouldn't even attempt to cover more people.

Its like when people say there's no point in donating to charity because the tiny amount they can afford to donate isn't going to help anyone. Oh wait, that's the same exact thing.

[Butchers Bill]

Ah, the "ration" fearmongering.  You didn't just get the memo, you read it.

Thats right...ignore the three articles I posted about rationing in other countries.  Don't come crying to me when someone you care about is 60 and finds out they have cancer and are told to go off and die because the younger people have priority for limited resources.

Neither can our system, or any proposed anywhere. 

OK, maybe you didn't actually completely ignore the articles, but this is not what the American people are being told right now, and according to polls they do not want ANY restrictions put on their care.

Waaah.  The sob stories and institutional FAIL we have here are at least as numerous and heinous. 

Exactly.  So why would the government run care be any better???

Meanwhile 4 out of 10 GPs and 9 out of 10 patients can't stand our system.

Yeah, thats why all docs take as many Medicare and Medicaid patients that they can get their hands on.   

No one is seriously proposing nationalizing all health care.  We have however finally realized that it's ridiculous to operate our nation without health care for all. 

Either you are grossly misinformed, or are a gross liar.  Check out page 16 of the actual bill:

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/HRdraft1xml.pdf

Insurance providers will be FORBIDDEN from taken on new people into their plans with the exception of dependents.  That means, if you lose your coverage, you are in the public plan.  If you are 18, you are in the public plan.  Eventually the private plans will have to close and everyone will be in the public plan Comrade Dio.

Hell the PURPOSE of the bill as stated is to "To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans".

The problems with Medicare and Medicaid are well documented, and subject to political whim.  That doesn't mean we'd be better off without them. 

And yet you want the govt to increase these "well documented" problems 100 fold to cover everyone?

Finally, the only two Vets I know who use the VA hospitals are quite happy with their care, your father's totally awesome joke notwithstanding.

Perhaps your population sample should be greater than two.  The VA is notorious for its horrendous care.

[Butchers Bill]

In order to further obstruct and prolong the progression of the health care bill, Repubelicans block their very own amendments...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5AmhI9g7o

This ones for you ATV:

Democrat: Obama slowing down progress on health care reform

[SD_Eagle5]

Finally, the only two Vets I know who use the VA hospitals are quite happy with their care, your father's totally awesome joke notwithstanding.

You can make that 3 vets, I received great care the 2 times I had to go to the va hospital.

All I know it my own personal experience.  My health care plan has covered less and become more expensive every year for each of the last ten.  My wife just had to pretty much ditch her plan because we couldn't afford it.  I'm spending about $600 to cover my two children per month.  And by most standards we're considered middle class (i.e. can't get current state-funded plans because we make too much money).

Obama's plan may be far from perfect, but something has to be done.  There are many in worse shape than we are.

As mentioned above I use the va for healthcare, but to cover my daughter and g/f it costs over $500 per month. Not to mention my daughter is already over her allowable visits per year, meaning every visit to the doctors office comes straight out of my pocket. I just had to put out $175 because Aetna wouldn't cover her last visit. My g/f had to go to the ER a few months ago because she was in agonizing pain and was having trouble breathing. The bill is $1500, Aetna is saying they won't cover her visit because what was wrong with her didn't require a trip to the ER.

How about 1 trillion dollars over the first 10 years how about the current gov. show's us they can manage money.

So 10 years of healthcare for the US would cost less than 6 years of a war in Iraq? Sign me up.

First of all, they should do all they can to stop Obamacare from becoming a reality because it would be an utter disaster.

What would be so disastrous about it? I'm not gonna sit here and say I have all the answers or know enough about it but I do know that doing nothing about it is unacceptable. Other countries that provide healthcare for their citizens seem to be doing well.

I read over Obama's/Biden's plan after I posted the above question to get a better grasp of what's at stake. I also read a few pro/con arguments to get a better view of the situation. From my view the Republicans are bitter, fear mongering (socialism!), and believe it's 'Un-American' to provide it's citizens with healthcare. Joining healthcare with private business is a big part of the problem, if businesses could eliminate the money spent on medical for their workers it would help them out. Not to mention if every American (like my family) didn't have to get assraped every time they went to the doctor we'd probably have more money to put back into the economy.

[ATV]

Scare tactics, fear, blah blah blah, fear, be afraid, be very afraid, blah blah blah...

Check out page 16 of the actual bill:

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/HRdraft1xml.pdf

Insurance providers will be FORBIDDEN from taken on new people into their plans with the exception of dependents.  That means, if you lose your coverage, you are in the public plan.  If you are 18, you are in the public plan.  Eventually the private plans will have to close and everyone will be in the public plan

SWEET!

[Sgt PSN]

Finally, the only two Vets I know who use the VA hospitals are quite happy with their care, your father's totally awesome joke notwithstanding.

You can make that 3 vets, I received great care the 2 times I had to go to the va hospital.

for the most part, nearly everyone i've ever met that's been a regular user of the va hospitals have had nothing but good experiences.  a few bad experiences here and there but you can't always please everyone no matter how hard you try. 

the obvious exception though would be the disgraceful facilities and pathetic treatment of vets uncovered at bethesda (i believe it was) a few years ago. 

[ATV]

Great speech from Obama at the NAACP today...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/31951708#31951708

[Eagaholic]

The quality of VA care has improved tremendously over the last 20 years but there's still plenty of room for improvement.  Before then many were horrific but now there's a lot of standardization which compares facility to facility, region to region, as well as to the private sector. There was a major scandal a few years ago which received inadequate media coverage, involving the abuse of investigational research. At the Stratton VA in Albany, NY there was a conviction in '05 of criminally negligent homicide of a patient which was really the tip of the iceberg.

[SD_Eagle5]

The VA gets a bad rap -I have my theories - but I'm not 100% sure as to why.

First of all it's wonderful that an organization such as the VA exists. Being in the military can be a rough experience, and I'm grateful the country shows their appreciation for your service. It made the transition back into normal life that much easier. 3 years since I've been out and they've done more for me than I could possibly imagine.

[Seabiscuit36]

my brother might end up working for the VA hospital in Perry Point, depending on his options when he gets back.  He's not sure about how much upward movement there would be at the VA though. 

[ATV]

Some of the money that we pay to the health insurance companies is used to pay homeless men to stand around for hours so that their lobbyists can go the the front of the line . Yes, private health insurance is truly efficient. Another illustration of how far from the New Deal we've fallen...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/13/line.standers/index.html

[Butchers Bill]

Some of the money that we pay to the health insurance companies is used to pay homeless men to stand around for hours so that their lobbyists can go the the front of the line . Yes, private health insurance is truly efficient. Another illustration of how far from the New Deal we've fallen...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/13/line.standers/index.html

Huh?

Gomes is being paid to hold a place in line for a lobbyist at a hearing on the climate-change bill.

And btw, we are actually much closer to what FDR envisioned as the "New Deal" than ever before.

[Rome]

12 years of Republican laissez-faire economic idiocy with Harding, Coolidge & Hoover precipitated the great depression, so in that regard, you're right... we are close to FDR's New Deal.

[ATV]

Gomes is being paid to hold a place in line for a lobbyist at a hearing on the climate-change bill.

As if the health insurance lobbyists weren't surely doing the same thing?