Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[Phanatic]

I do like the "cut all income tax". That's a tax break for workers and companies alike. That would benefit everyone and might encourage companies to hire or at least not lay off given the tax break.

[stalker]

It would put money to spend in everyone's pockets. from big business down to the minimum wage earner. Spending money creates jobs. Oh and I forgot something.

ELIMINATE THE DEATH TAX

[ATV]

$2 billion broadband

Tha's right. I aint need no internets communicatin fas'er. Dang liburals tryin to take ma hard urned money and usin it to buy nothin. Aint makin no jobs, everbody nose anybody can make broaderband by themselves.

ELIMINATE THE CAPITAL GAINS TAX....CUT BUSINESS TAX......CUT ALL PERSONAL INCOME TAXES

ELIMINATE THE DEATH TAX

Hooray! Why stop there? I wants me some slaves. Or some serfs at least. Let's farg the whole notion of the "middle class" up the ass. Let's farg it hard.

[stalker]

$2 billion broadband

Tha's right. I aint need no internets communicatin fas'er. Dang liburals tryin to take ma hard urned money and usin it to buy nothin. Aint makin no jobs, everbody nose anybody can make broaderband by themselves.

ELIMINATE THE CAPITAL GAINS TAX....CUT BUSINESS TAX......CUT ALL PERSONAL INCOME TAXES

ELIMINATE THE DEATH TAX

Hooray! Why stop there? I wants me some slaves. Or some serfs at least. Let's farg the whole notion of the "middle class" up the ass. Let's farg it hard.

Your are a naive little idiot. You contend that the middle class is made by taxing the more well to do? Move to Cuba you little toad.

[Butchers Bill]

If the government doesn't kickstart the economy by increased spending, who will?  There's plenty of capital out there on the sidelines, being held out of play because investors don't want to risk.

Reducing or temporarily eliminating the capital gains tax will put that capital back in play very quickly, especially if it's for a limited time.

Tax breaks won't help anyone who really needs the help, because tax cuts don't equal jobs until years later in the best case scenario, and jobs are what is needed. 

That is a valid point, however tax breaks will create long term growth which is more important than short term stimulus.  In addition, if a company has less of a tax liability now it may not need to layoff.  In the investment industry I know a ton of people that got laid off in the past few weeks not because of a lack of work to do, but because the companies need to firm up their balance sheet.  Tax breaks would have alleviated the need to lay off.  Not always the case, but tax breaks can help.

Besides, that's assuming that a tax break is enough reason for a company to hire someone, which I don't think is how it works.  People are hired when growth and sales warrant the expense, not because the company has an extra few dollars to spend. 

You are correct, extra cash for a company right now doesn't automatically mean they'll go out and hire.  I am thinking more along the lines of preventing layoffs.

More often than not, extra dollars go to management and sometmes even shareholders.  Who are in turn rich themselves and will just continue to sit on their money.

Again, you make a valid point.  There are companies out there that will do just this.  Just as there are (are were) companies taking TARP money to pay bonuses.  Any time the government gives away money, either directly like TARP or though tax breaks, you run the risk of the money not going to the purpose intended.

It really boils down to a philosophical argument.  Who is more likely to pull us out of a recession?  Who is more likely to create long term jobs and growth?  I still believe, based on the historical record, that private industry is best equipped and most likely to pull the country out of this.  The government, not just the US, is not capable of spending money wisely in the private sector and shouldn't try.

What should happen is a massive overhaul of the regulation of banking, including the outlawing of almost every financial derivative as that is the root cause of this problem.  Not to mention that derivatives add nothing to an economy, can be "gamed" and manipulated, and have the capability of sabotaging the largest economy in the world.  In addition, taxes on businesses should be drastically reduced at least temporarily to discourage layoffs, and corporate governance laws should be revisited to restrain boards from paying the ridiculous compensation they have been.

Oh, and the tax rate for people making over 25 million should be raised to at least 50%.  If companies want to retain the tax breaks that employment expenses offer, either employ more people or spread some of the CEO wealth down to the middle managers who should receive more credit than they do.

[Butchers Bill]

ELIMINATE THE DEATH TAX

This is one thing I never understood about people who call themselves conservatives.  The unrestricted accumulation of wealth among families is one of the reasons why the colonists left England, and why people still immigrate to this country today.

First of all, when an estate is passed to an heir it should be taxed as income because that is exactly what it is.  The heir did not do anything to earn it except win the womb lottery.  I have no problem at all with a 10 million exemption, and every dollar after that should be taxed at 70% if not more.

Secondly, as we have seen with the Kennedys, Waltons, Rockefellers, and Bushes to name a few, there is a pull of familial wealth to power.  Do you really want to live in a nation where 5-10 families control a vast majority of the wealth?  Again, thats one of the reasons this country was formed to get away from that sort of aristocracy.

[stalker]

Bill, I'll get to that death tax issue in a little while. Meanwhile, Dio, I have a serious question. What are are your thoughts and feelings on FDR's NRA and AAA? Please reply because I feel some very strong parallels can be drawn between these agencies and the basic ideas in the Stimulus package. (Or at least the possibilities).

[Phanatic]

ELIMINATE THE DEATH TAX

This is one thing I never understood about people who call themselves conservatives.  The unrestricted accumulation of wealth among families is one of the reasons why the colonists left England, and why people still immigrate to this country today.

First of all, when an estate is passed to an heir it should be taxed as income because that is exactly what it is.  The heir did not do anything to earn it except win the womb lottery.  I have no problem at all with a 10 million exemption, and every dollar after that should be taxed at 70% if not more.

Secondly, as we have seen with the Kennedys, Waltons, Rockefellers, and Bushes to name a few, there is a pull of familial wealth to power.  Do you really want to live in a nation where 5-10 families control a vast majority of the wealth?  Again, thats one of the reasons this country was formed to get away from that sort of aristocracy.

Never thought of the death tax in that light.

[stalker]

Bill that is an interesting thought but really I have always had a problem with the people who are supposed to draw the line. Is 10mil the right number? How about 20? How about 200? They are all just arbitrary. (I have the same issue with the legislation of morality and censorship). The death tax does not affect any of those families you mention because they employ legions of attorneys to mitigate their liabilities through trusts and other things I don't pretend to understand. However, I do have several friends who in the last 10 years have had serious survivability issues with companies they inherited from their fathers' estates. One was forced to sell his company to pay his tax liability, the other found it more fiscally astute to lock the doors and layoff over 100 employees and walk away.

Another thing to consider is the ecological impact of the death tax. Some of the largest plots of land in this country when inherited will have to be sold to developers in order to pay taxes. I am talking about family farms and ranchland. It's happening at an alarming rate.

Not every landed family is a Kennedy, Rockefeller or Bush. There is not a need to penalize good people due to transgressions of the amoral

[ATV]

The heir did not do anything to earn it except win the womb lottery.

Yup. I'm not sure what the "death tax" is anyways. I assume these wingnuts are talking about the estate tax. Of course the wingnuts don't want us to call it an estate tax, because that implies that only the wealthy are taxed - Which (surprisingly, gasp) is the way it is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

Currently, an heir is going to take the first 3.5 million dollars tax free. So, when dickbags argue that we should do away with the estate tax, because some other right wing dickbag on talk radio convinced them this was meany-poo and communist, they're doing the rich man's bidding. Does anyone here honestly believe that 99% percent of these right wing blogging fargers (like the ones on here) are likely to receieve an inheritance over 3.5 farging million dollars? At least the lucky 1% of these shteinfaces will at least not be taxed until after the 3.5 million - Wahhh, BOO-HOO! At least if these dumb shteins were actually going to be affected by the estate tax it would be a more honest, albeit ridiculously selfish, argument.

[ice grillin you]

rich people dont pay taxes.....thats as american as yankee doodle and apple pie...and its the only thing old decrepit white guys have left to cling to as their own...since it wont be long before whitey is out numbered in this country

[Diomedes]

spanking new RNC chair Michael Steele in some luke warm water, temp rising.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-md.steele08feb08,0,3387498.story

Given that the allegations come in part from a dubious source, Steele has considerable PR ammo to fire back, for now.  But now that he's got everyone's attention, we'll see what surfaces.

One thing is clear:  if you are in government or running for public office, you would be foolish to do official business with your family; no matter how legit the business might be, it stinks something awful.

[shorebird]

It really boils down to a philosophical argument.  Who is more likely to pull us out of a recession?  Who is more likely to create long term jobs and growth?  I still believe, based on the historical record, that private industry is best equipped and most likely to pull the country out of this. The government, not just the US, is not capable of spending money wisely in the private sector and shouldn't try.

I agree 100% with this, and the stimulus bill proves it. The middle class gets taxed to death, and I don't understand how anyone can think raising taxes will help the econonmy.

ELIMINATE THE DEATH TAX

First of all, when an estate is passed to an heir it should be taxed as income because that is exactly what it is.  The heir did not do anything to earn it except win the womb lottery.  I have no problem at all with a 10 million exemption, and every dollar after that should be taxed at 70% if not more.

I don't agree with this. How many times can the government tax a dollar? Inheritance money has already been taxed, probably more than once. An example, Your Dad gets his paycheck cashed and it's taxed. The value of his home and land gets taxed and he pays those taxes with money he made thats already taxed. If he lives in a town or city, his home and land is taxed again by the town council. Then, he goes to a department store to buy a pair of work pants, and pays taxes on them with money that was already taxed.

I'm not saying that those taxes aren't necessary because most of them are or we would be riding around on dirt roads. But geez, how many times can you tax a dollar?? Inheritance tax is just a tax of dead people. The government gets you coming and going, literally.

rich people dont pay taxes.....thats as american as yankee doodle and apple pie...and its the only thing old decrepit white guys have left to cling to as their own...since it wont be long before whitey is out numbered in this country

Yeah, because it's only the old decrepit white guys that are rich, isn't it?

I swear, you're as racist as any cornponed KKK member from Mississippi.

You hate middle class white people, we get it, now STFU.

[Diomedes]

Joel is dead on correct regarding the estate tax, couldn't have said it as well myself.

I am not convinced that private industry can pull the country out.  It was afterall private industry that got us into this.  I think a large spending bill to kickstart the engine is wise, and once the engine is going again, private industry will be what keeps it running.

But there are very big problems with capitalism as we run it, and only government regulation and oversight is going to fix those problems.  The peanut factory cannot be counted upon to put consumer safety before profits, the bank ceos cannot be counted on to serve their institutions employees and most importantly customers before their own profit, etc.

Regulation of business is not government intervention, it's one of the market forces companies need to account for and adapt to.  We must have better government in order to avoid the drastic failures that we see here today.

[Phanatic]

I've always been against the state tax because the government gets to tax the money twice, however if it is true that it is only for estates above $3.5 million who gives a farg. There are a whole lot more important things to worry about in this country.