Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[shorebird]

Some of those guys make 80k a yr. putting cup holders in pickups.

[Diomedes]

If the avaricious execs who run these companies hadn't packed their own salaries to much more ridiculous levels than that, I'd care.  If they had built their business for ten years out rather than the next quarter, I might have some sympathy for the complaint that some workers make a good upper middle class salary.  If these same suit bastiches hadn't raided and gambled against their pension fund obligations, I might cast a more critical eye on laborer salaries.

But these things didn't happen because this is America.  So basically, I don't much care if a guy is getting 80k per year to build cars.  It might be a little on the high end of the scale, but I don't begrudge it.  Of all the people in the auto companies, the workers are at least doing something, actually showing up to work every day and sweating to make something.

I notice in this discussion that conservatives make such a big deal of this kind of number.  These are the same people who defend executives making millions and millions, saying the wealth trickles down, so it's good for everyone.  But flip the script and all of a sudden the trickle down argument vanishes.  Money apparently only trickles down from white collar jobs through elite college degrees.  To these sons of bitches, there is no trickle down benefit at all from thousands of workers making a decent living.   To them, it's socialism if workers make good money.

[shorebird]

So basically, I don't much care if a guy is getting 80k per year to build cars.  It might be a little on the high end of the scale, but I don't begrudge it.  Of all the people in the auto companies, the workers are at least doing something, actually showing up to work every day and sweating to make something.

A little high scale? Yeah.....right. There are non-union construction workers that make half that, and provide more of a service to society than friggen' cup holders, or building cars. If the corp execs are guilty of anything, it's not standing up to the UAW when they had the chance. Now they can't fulfil their obligations. Which is exactly why I like Moore's plan, because dumping money in a already screwed up cooperation will just beget more bailouts. It will never end.

[ice grillin you]

what happened to joe the plumber?

it was the friggin foundation of the pubs presidential campagin now they are hatin on what joe the car builder is making?

[shorebird]

I'm not hating on what anyone is making. I just find it hard to justify dumping billions into a messed up system, if there won't be any restructuring. After all, however you cut it, it's my money the government is using, and I don't like the idea of caking off a person making twice as much as some non-uion worker who puts out the same if not more amount of work.

[Diomedes]

You don't get it man.  The problem isn't Steve the Carpenter making 40k vs. Bob the Factory worker making 80k.

The problem is Stan the EVP making 350,000, and Sharon the CEO making 19,000,000

You're falling into the easy trap that conservatives lay out..pit the middle class against each other so they don't notice we're farging them.

[shorebird]

Yeah, it's a conspirasy against the middle class. So what would you do about it now? Yeah, just give them billions of dollars of taxpayers money and drag it out another 10 or so years until the same thing happens again. Let them keep their overpaying jobs while other workers across this country are being laid off right and left.

The UAW was ready to go on strike before, now they might have a little more permanant situation on their hands because they were to godamn greedy. I have no sympathy at all for them. They won't be the only ones out of work.

Except for all the illegal aliens doing all the work that the lazy white americans consider themselves above. They'll still have jobs. Jobs that other legal Americans could do, and might want to do before all this is over.

[Diomedes]

Wow man, you're all over the place.

And yeah, it is a conspiracy against the middle class.  The rich get richer off the middle and lower class.  The middle class funds the crippling welfare cycle.

Boards of Directors, CEOs and politicians laugh all the way to the bank.

But go on and begrudge the factory worker for managing to wring good pay out of the system.  Bitterness and jealosy look good on you, and they are totally helping you to figure out just who it is that's farging you in the ass all day long.

[Wingspan]

Wow man, you're all over the place.

And yeah, it is a conspiracy against the middle class.  The rich get richer off the middle and lower class.  The middle class funds the crippling welfare cycle.

Boards of Directors, CEOs, Union leaders and politicians laugh all the way to the bank.

But go on and begrudge the factory worker for managing to wring good pay out of the system.  Bitterness and jealosy look good on you, and they are totally helping you to figure out just who it is that's farging you in the ass all day long.

I actually don't disagree with you...but you left one very important person (group) off of your list...

[shorebird]

Like bailing the big three out with billions isn't going to cake off the same Boards of Directors, CEOs, Union leaders and politicians that are farging us all up the ass??

[Diomedes]

I actually don't disagree with you...but you left one very important person (group) off of your list...

Union leaders should by and large be shot dead, agreed.

[Diomedes]

Like bailing the big three out with billions isn't going to cake off the same Boards of Directors, CEOs, Union leaders and politicians that are farging us all up the ass??

Don't mistake what I'm talking about here as support for the bailout plan.  I've already said I don't know what to think about it. 

I do know that the system is rigged and when we start bitching as teachers about what the fire fighters are making, then we lose.

[shorebird]

Well, it seems the Firefighters union and the Teachers union are run a little better than the Autoworkers union. I don't blame the workers themselves, but restructering of benefits and salaries has to happen in this case. It's either that, or the problem just gets prolonged, imo. The bailout is nothing more than a big bandaid if there isn't going to be a little compromise.

The UAW has dug their own grave on this. Thank you Ron Gettelfinger.

[Diomedes]

There has been compromise on the union's part.  Have you read nothing I've posted?

Oh hell, you're right.  It's all the union's fault.  If only the greedy workers weren't ruining our auto industry.  Let's break everyone's wages back to 7 bucks an hour.  That'll fix it.

[shorebird]

The UAW is ready to make concessions now. Two weeks ago.

"Concessions, I used to cringe at that word," Mr. Gettelfinger said. "But now, why hide it? That's what we did."