Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[ice grillin you]

its not the same thing and it is universal...meaning EVERYONE is covered...under obamas plan everyone is NOT covered

[Phanatic]

that and shes really been killing mccains plan which wouldnt cover pre existing conditions

Yeah she went off on that too I remember.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Healthcare needs to be discussed in the larger context of welfare, social security, and medicare programs.

[Phanatic]

Guy I  know works for an EMT station. Stays over night like a fire fighter on 24 hour shifts. He said that Medicare pays only $50 for every ride and most old folks can't afford the rest so they don't pay. With gas prices so high the township is really losing money and he thinks he might lose his job.

[Cerevant]

its not the same thing and it is universal...meaning EVERYONE is covered...under obamas plan everyone is NOT covered

No, you are wrong.

*  Affordable: Unlike the current health system where insurance premiums send people into bankruptcy, the plan provides tax credits for working families to help them cover their costs. The tax credits will ensure that working families never have to pay more than a limited percentage of their income for health care.

   * Available: No discrimination. The insurance companies can't deny you coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.

   * Reliable: It's portable. If you change or lose your job, you keep your health care.

"Affordable"
"Help them cover their costs"

What if they don't pay?  In the Texas debate, Obama called her on this, saying that her plan has penalties for not paying.  She did not deny this, she just kept saying universal.

Universal means everybody gets it.  Everybody.  Not just those who pay for it.

Hillary's plan is pay or pay.  You either pay for health insurance, or your pay a penalty.  Sounds like a great plan for the poor.  That is not universal.  It is mandatory.

[ice grillin you]

you can think anything you want but youre wrong...well either youre wrong or everyone else in the democratic party including people like elizabeth and john edwards are wrong


its people like you who give ammo to obamas opponents who classify his folowing as a cult

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Both plans are great for the poor.  They reduce the quality of healthcare and increase taxes for people that currently can afford and receive good care in order to make it more available to those who don't.  Go ahead and split hairs all you want about "universal" versus not universal.  The only guarantee is that the worst-off Americans will get some semblance of improved care and everyone else will get zesty care... with a very high price tag.

Better regulation of medical lawsuits, drugs, and insurance companies would be a much more intelligent way to fix the system than a government takeover.

But hey, if you believe in the U.S. government to do things smart and do things right, you'll believe almost anything.

[ice grillin you]

i agree both plans are great...either one would be a monumentally great thing for america...but the fact is one is universal and one isnt...


i actually give a ton of credit to obama for taking such a risky position...it shows character and substance to stick to a position that will politically hurt you...

[Rome]

I don't quite understand how getting rid of insurance companies would affect the quality of health care.  Health care in this country is a preposterous joke and we're the most affluent nation on Earth.  How is it that other countries have socialized medicine and make it work for them yet we can't?

Oh, that's right.  Because insurance companies spend billions paying off politicians and scaring us into believing that if we did have a single-payer system we'd all be doomed.

[ice grillin you]

worse than that they scare everyone into thinking they gotta take a pill for all their problems and on a daily basis they invent new syndromes diseases and sicknesses for people to worry about...they are straight up criminals

[phattymatty]

hot dog fingers

[Cerevant]

you can think anything you want but youre wrong...well either youre wrong or everyone else in the democratic party including people like elizabeth and john edwards are wrong

Give me one piece of evidence.  One.  Even Hillary herself did not deny that the only difference between her plan and Obama's is the penalty.

I don't quite understand how getting rid of insurance companies would affect the quality of health care.  Health care in this country is a preposterous joke and we're the most affluent nation on Earth.  How is it that other countries have socialized medicine and make it work for them yet we can't?

Because there are a whole lot of politicians who would lose a whole lot of money if they backed a single-payer system.

That being said, a single payer system has its own serious problems.  When you have the government price fixing a job, you can't expect that job to be very popular.  Further, when you regulate the shtein out of a system, it gets worse, not better.  Here's what I'm seeing in Ontario:

• Per-visit fees are fixed, lower for GPs than for specialists
• All doctors are limited in the number of patients they can see in a week.  Most doctor's offices are open 8-3, M-F.
• New doctors are going into specialties to make more money (or going to the US)
• The GP shortage has left 15% of the local population without a GP, sending them to by-appointment clinics and the ER
• The alternative medicine business is booming.  Coincidence?

I would prefer a multiple payer, universal system where people below the poverty line pay nothing.  Having multiple payers (government or private) allows doctors to negotiate reasonable rates, and insurers will compete on price and quality of care.

I don't think Obama's plan is the final solution, but at least it doesn't try to lie about how many people it will cover.

worse than that they scare everyone into thinking they gotta take a pill for all their problems and on a daily basis they invent new syndromes diseases and sicknesses for people to worry about...they are straight up criminals

Um, I can't see a scenario where this would come from the insurance companies.  They make their money from the people who don't go to see the doctor.

I do think there needs to be reform in the drug industry, but I haven't spent as much time thinking about that.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

hot dog fingers

seeing the dead

[phattymatty]

I do think there needs to be reform in the drug industry, but I haven't spent as much time thinking about that.

is it because you don't even live in this country?

[Rome]

Forget "first kill all the lawyers".  First kill all the insurance whores and then rape their wives, children and dogs, and not necessarily in that order.