Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[PhillyPhreak54]

Booker or Biden

Worst election ever.

And Trump will still spit on those people's shoes. He's awful. And the USA will be run into the ground and laughed at internationally

[rjs246]

I feel like I literally have nothing in common with someone who would go and decide Donald Trump should run this country.  It completely baffles me.  It's also sad that Jeb Bush is clearly the second best GOP candidate. 

I couldn't agree with this more. Who are these people and what informs their world view? I do not farging understand.

I wish Biden was running. Hillary is meh. Bernie I like but don't support his economic agenda and don't think he's pragmatic enough.  I'm going to end up voting for HRC in November but I wish I had a better alternative. 

Oh my sweet farging christ if I have to hear this any more (and I will) I'm going to lose it. Hillary is singularly qualified to be POTUS. She is pragmatic, tough as nails and a policy expert in every which way. She's liberal without being a lunatic and has been a senator, the first lady and the farging Secretary of State. I don't need to like her for her personality. Hell, I would have happily gotten drunk with GWB and probably would have enjoyed the shtein out of it. How did that turn out for us? This is the problem we face right now. The very best, most well rounded, most qualified candidate is a woman who the right has spent decades deriding and who we are all bored with. Bernie Sanders, for as much as I enjoy him and agree with many of his policies is in no way qualified to run this country. And right now it's either Hillary or Bernie. I will take Hillary over and over and over if that's the decision. So please, for the love of god, stop referring to this fantastically qualified candidate as 'meh'. It's giving me angina.

I legitimately like Kasich though I don't agree with a portion of his policies but as has been covered I don't think he has a real shot at the nomination.

it's easy to look sane and rational in a room full of shtein-tossing monkeyboys.

[Eagles_Legendz]

Hillary is qualified.  I never said otherwise.  I also am going to end up voting for her both in the primary and general.  I don't support a Bernie candidacy despite finding him entertaining.   But she's an empty suit to me.  A qualified suit to be sure, and will serve well enough as a caretaker and appoint judges to the SCOTUS who I would support, but I don't see her as a systemic problem solver.   I would hope that in our entire country we would be able to find a candidate whose policies I largely support and who I find at least the chance to either be transformative or sincere.  I don't think she's either.

[rjs246]

Obama was transformative and sincere. We've had 8 years of that and I'm happy for it. But times have changed and context matters. In the context of today's political environment and the ever more loony right-wing that will be in opposition, I want a caretaker. I want a steady hand. I want predictable steady unspectacular progress to the left. Jumping from one transformative leader to another sounds neat but in practice would probably be a nightmare.

[Eagles_Legendz]

And to clarify, by empty suit I mean someone who is going to push left winger agenda from power brokers.  I don't think she's genuine whatsoever.  Which again, is fine (mostly) because the big wigs on the left push more policies that I support, but I'd prefer to have a democrat who I like AND support or who I support and think can actually effectuate positive change (best I assume for Hillary is working well within the existing infrastructure). 

[Eagles_Legendz]

Obama was transformative and sincere. We've had 8 years of that and I'm happy for it. But times have changed and context matters. In the context of today's political environment and the ever more loony right-wing that will be in opposition, I want a caretaker. I want a steady hand. I want predictable steady unspectacular progress to the left. Jumping from one transformative leader to another sounds neat but in practice would probably be a nightmare.

That's reasonable.  I don't disagree with that. 

[rjs246]

And to clarify, by empty suit I mean someone who is going to push left winger agenda from power brokers.  I don't think she's genuine whatsoever.  Which again, is fine (mostly) because the big wigs on the left push more policies that I support, but I'd prefer to have a democrat who I like AND support or who I support and think can actually effectuate positive change (best I assume for Hillary is working well within the existing infrastructure). 

I think you underestimate her ability to get things done, but hopefully we'll be able to settle that argument 8 years from now.

[ice grillin you]

Hillary is a far superior choice to anyone on the right....that's about the best thing I can say about her...and she aint no liberal

[rjs246]

She isn't a fire and brimstone liberal. But she will push social justice and equality. She's a pragmatic politician who will appoint liberal judges and continue the trajectory that BHO has put us on.

If all she does is make liberal strides on populist issues like student debt and equal pay, appoint judges and block the right wing agenda she will be a farging superstar in my eyes.

[ice grillin you]

shes a hawk who is a whore to big business

I agree she is rock solid...not great....on social issues

she really should be a senator she would be much more valuable there where you can count on her vote to back a liberal agenda...I just don't believe she would ever strongly push one herself from the white house

[Eagles_Legendz]

Everyone has core issues.  Idgaf whatsoever about immigration whereas it seems to be 35% of the electorates main priority for example.  My core issue that I'm passionate most about is justice reform.  I think our current system is an abomination and targets/destroys poor primarily AA communities.  Bill and Hillary both get a portion of the blame from me for the acceleration of mass incarceration and minimum sentencing.   I get that some people change as they age but they have a track record I don't support with it (coupled with her being a little too hawkish for me & against trade policies I support). 

I just think she's too malleable.  I can't even hazard a guess as to what she truly believes at this point.  I get most politicians are like that and I'm probably too idealistic with it, but on some level for me actually being able to identify what a politician stands for and represents matters on some level.  Since I can't do that she's a meh to me.  Doesn't mean I won't vote for her & I think you're right on many levels but that's why she's problematic to me.

[rjs246]

shes a hawk who is a whore to big business

I agree she is rock solid...not great....on social issues

she really should be a senator she would be much more valuable there where you can count on her vote to back a liberal agenda...I just don't believe she would ever strongly push one herself from the white house

She's a hawk. From my perspective that can be good or bad. It depends entirely on the situation. Remember, BHO was a dove until he was faced with some difficult choices. On balance I don't find her hawkishness to be a put off the way I did 8 years ago.

My only problem with her, and I'll admit that it's a big one for me, is her big-business whorishness. But that's what is potentially great about her pragmatism. She'll take money from them but if it gets her elected she'll beat the shtein out of them too. Besides, we are a long way off from a political system where qualified non-whores are realistic candidates.

And again, I don't want or need her to push hard for a liberal agenda. These next 8 years need to be about setting the recent progress in stone so that the farging House can stop voting to repeal the ACA every 35 minutes.

[rjs246]

My core issue that I'm passionate most about is justice reform.  I think our current system is an abomination and targets/destroys poor primarily AA communities.  Bill and Hillary both get a portion of the blame from me for the acceleration of mass incarceration and minimum sentencing...

To me, this gets back to her being in the public eye for so long. It's easy to forget the crime wave of the early 90s but it was a HUGE deal and something that dominated the political conversation at every level. You're 100% correct that in hindsight the tough-on-crime policies that Bill supported were enormously harmful, but at the time (and to arguable degrees, even looking back, though I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole) those policies were wildly popular and measurably successful. The problem is with the lives that got swept up in the effort. That's not a small thing, but it's only with 20 years of relatively low crime that we can stand in judgment of the decisions that were made and try to rectify the mistakes. I don't hold Hillary accountable for the mass incarceration of the poor and minorities, but our general awareness of it as an issue is something that is new to the larger conversation and how/if she approaches the subject will speak volumes.

[ice grillin you]

the clintons were an embarrassment when it came to mass incarceration in the 90's...horrible welfare reform as well...I don't think she will be as bad now as then but I also don't think she is a liberal and carries issues like this in her heart to the point she would push hard on them

shes also a big de-regulator when it comes to wall street

the republicans have pulled the line so far to the right that it skews people like the Clintons who you could argue would have been moderate republicans not that long ago

[Sgt PSN]

shes a hawk who is a whore to big business

I agree she is rock solid...not great....on social issues

she really should be a senator she would be much more valuable there where you can count on her vote to back a liberal agenda...I just don't believe she would ever strongly push one herself from the white house

Couldn't agree with this more. I wouldn't mind her being a corporate whore if she were whoring for some more progressive, forward thinking companies that were providing some sort of tangible benefit to the country/economy/environment.  But she's taking good ole boy money just like everyone else. I definitely don't hate her, and I'd absolutely vote for her over any of the slop coming out of the gop, but I am in no way nearly as enthused about her as potus as I was Barry.