RIP to the dirty dirty

[rjs246]

The "true #20"?

You are a joke.

[Munson]

You whine too much.

Waters badass play and nasty 'tude vs. Dawkins being probably one of the best saftey's ever in the NFL, and probably the guy who helped revolutionize the posistion, in addition to being a big hitter. Who's the true number 20 on the Eagles D in everyones mind? Just because Gang Green is what got you into football doesn't mean you have to whine because I want to hear what people think about it. Waaah waaaah. 

I'd really like them to retire #20 for both guys, like FF pointed out. Especially with the untimely death of Waters.

[shorebird]

Man, thats terrible to hear. I loved watching that guy play.

RIP Andre' "Dirty" Waters

[PhillyGirl]

Some stuff from today's papers:

Posted on Tue, Nov. 21, 2006   


Waters' suicide stuns Buddy & Co.

By PAUL DOMOWITCH & ED BARKOWITZ
pdomo@aol.com

THE PHONE CALL still was fresh in Buddy Ryan's mind. Now, for all the wrong reasons, it will be one the former Eagles coach never will forget.

After agreeing last week to coach in a college all-star game in Las Vegas in January, Ryan telephoned one of his favorite ex-players, Andre Waters, to see if he'd be interested in helping him coach one of the teams. Waters, the former Eagles strong safety who had just finished his first season as defensive coordinator at Fort Valley (Ga.) State, couldn't say yes fast enough.

"I wanted him to coach the kids in the secondary for me,'' Ryan said. "He was laughing and carrying on. There was no sign of anything like this.''

To the shock of Ryan and everyone else who knew him, Waters, 44, ended his life early yesterday. He put a gun to his head in his north Tampa home and shot himself. His girlfriend discovered his body at about 1:30 a.m.

Waters is the third prominent member of those Eagles Gang Green defenses of the late 1980s and early '90s to die. Defensive tackle Jerome Brown was killed in the prime of his life - and career - in a 1992 automobile accident in Florida. He was 27. Defensive end Reggie White died in his sleep 2 years ago at the age of 43. Another former Eagle from that era, safety Todd Bell, who played for the Eagles in '88 and '89, died of a heart attack last year. He was only 47.

Now Waters.

"It's amazing,'' Ryan said sadly. "They were so young. It really is terrible.''

"I walked in here [to the NovaCare Complex] today and saw a picture of Reggie on the wall,'' said Mike Quick, the former Eagles wide receiver who played with White and Brown and Waters and now is the game analyst for the Eagles radio network. "That's the first thing that came to my mind. Jerome, Reggie, and now Andre. All those guys. The same defense, man.''

"I just can't believe it,'' said Mike Golic, who played defensive tackle for the Eagles from '87 to '92, rotating with Mike Pitts at the inside spot between Brown and White. "That's three guys from our defense, all gone so young. It's just awful.

"The thing with Jerome, it was an accident. And with Reggie, there was an explanation [sleep apnea]. But this leaves a lot of questions for the people who were closest to [Waters]. We didn't know what demons were troubling him and that's hard. You wonder why he didn't reach out [for help].''

Waters, a native of Belle Glade, Fla., was signed by the Eagles in 1984 as an undrafted free agent out of Cheyney State. Spent 10 years with the team, 8 as a starter. Finished his NFL career in Arizona, playing 2 years for the Cardinals when Ryan was the coach and general manager there.

He was one of the NFL's hardest-hitting players, and in the minds of many of the players he went up against, also one of the dirtiest. But he seemed to revel in his "Dirty Waters'' reputation, even if it ended up costing him more than a few dollars in fines over the course of his career.

"On the field, he wasn't liked very much,'' said former Eagles receiver Harold Carmichael, now the team's director of player services. "But off the field, everybody loved him.''

Waters was an inspiration to players at Cheyney and other small schools. His NFL success allowed them to dream the same dream he did.

"For a guy his size, coming out of Cheyney University, to be able to do what he did in the NFL, it gave a lot of hope for guys in small schools and small programs,'' Quick said. "That's one of the things that he took back to Cheyney. Because he went back there a lot. It gave a lot of those kids hope that they could play in the NFL, too.

"Andre Waters did... He wasn't very big, but he had a huge heart and he'd take on anybody. It didn't matter. He was that kind of player. You look at the great safeties that played for the Eagles, and 'Dre ranks up there with the best of them.''

After Waters' playing career, he got into coaching. He worked as an assistant at several smaller schools, including Morgan State, South Florida, Saint Augustine's, and Alabama State before getting hired as the defensive coordinator at Fort Valley State this year.

He had hoped to coach in the NFL and became increasingly frustrated as that dream eluded him. But friends said they don't believe that's the reason he killed himself.

"It blows your mind that somebody could do that to themselves,'' Quick said. "I don't know how it gets that bad in your life.

"He loved coaching, loved teaching kids what he knew about football. If you've got nothing else, you got that. We talked about it back in the summer. He was all excited about what he was doing as a football coach.''

Waters was in Philadelphia last December with many of his former teammates when the Eagles paid tribute to White, who this year was inducted posthumously into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio.

"He was fine then, having a good time,'' Carmichael said. "Walking around laughing and joking with people. There was no indications [that he was troubled].''

A big part of Carmichael's job is helping players get on with the rest of their lives after their playing careers are over. He said Waters appeared to have no difficulty making the transition.

"He'd been out of the game for a while,'' he said. "He transitioned very well. There might have been other things in his life that weighed heavy on his heart. You never know what's going on in someone's head unless you've walked in their shoes. A lot of people, on the outside it looks like everything is beautiful. But you never know what's going on in the inside.''

Agent Jim Solano, who represented Waters and several other Eagles players from that era, including Clyde Simmons and Seth Joyner, was stunned by the news of the ex-player's suicide.

"Totally incredible,'' he said. "It's a terrible, terrible thing. That makes three guys on that team that have died. They say things come in three, but you don't expect anything like this. How many other teams in history have had three players die at such a young age? What a shame.''

[PhillyGirl]

Phil Sheridan | Suicide of ex-Eagle Andre Waters hits hard

By Phil Sheridan
Inquirer Columnist

There was real pain in Andre Waters' voice.

This was April. Waters was on his cell phone, driving a carload of at-risk teenagers to a barbershop and then on to a barbecue place. He was working with court-adjudicated youths, but still trying desperately to get back into the one business he knew best.

"I love the kids, I really do," the former Eagles safety said that day, just six months before he apparently took his own life. "But football, that's where I believe I have the most to offer. I just can't get a chance."

Waters, 44, died early yesterday from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He took with him the answer to the only question - Why, Andre, why? - worth asking. He may have given at least part of an answer in that nearly three-hour phone conversation in April.

He wasn't just frustrated and bitter about his inability to find a job with an NFL team. He was personally hurt by a system he believed used players up and spit them back out. But then, everything was personal with Waters.

That seems surprising, since he was the most violent and reckless of football players, but the contradiction isn't hard to explain. It was because Waters was a sweet-tempered, gentle soul that he had to be so vicious on the field. That's how this too-small undrafted safety from Cheyney State made it through a 12-year NFL career.

When he was a young player, clinging to a roster spot as a special-teamer, Waters was painfully shy. He had a stammer that made him too self-conscious to do interviews. He took classes to lose that stammer and became one of the most outgoing and personable and quotable Eagles of the last quarter-century.

With hard work, Waters believed, you could accomplish anything.

That's what made his estrangement from the league and the game so hard. Waters told me that he woke up some mornings in too much pain to get out of bed. His body burned and ached from every big collision he made in a career spent throwing his body at bigger men. He said he could link each pain to a particular hit or injury.

"I played because I loved it," he said. "I'm not looking for sympathy, because it's what I wanted to do. I just don't think people realize the players they cheer for wind up unable to walk or sleep because of pain."

What bothered him was that the sacrifice of his body didn't mean anything to the NFL the moment he couldn't play anymore. Jobs in scouting and coaching went to men who spent their 20s working a different career track and networking.

"Nobody knows the game like players," he said. "But the guys who get into coaching and scouting right out of college, they're getting experience while we're out there playing. When we're done, nobody wants to hire us."

Waters' first coaching job was at the University of South Florida, near his home in Tampa. After a couple of years, he was offered a spot in the NFL's minority coaching program. Forced to choose, he resigned his college job for a summer internship with the St. Louis Rams. The gamble didn't pay off with an NFL job. His subsequent college jobs were at smaller programs. Even there, he said, he ran into coaches who resented the ex-NFL big shot.

For the first time, hard work and dedication weren't enough. Coaching jobs are about whom you know and timing and opportunity. Although Waters played for great defensive coaches - Buddy Ryan, Bud Carson, Marion Campbell - none was active by the late 1990s. He had no sponsor, no pipeline, no one to give him that one break.

He coached this fall at Fort Valley State, a Division II program in Georgia. The Wildcats' season ended Nov. 11. Waters took his life nine days later.

Maybe there were other reasons. Maybe something happened recently to drive Waters to suicide. Or maybe the pain - physical and emotional - palpable in his voice just kept getting worse. Probably, we'll never know.

After the Eagles clinched the NFC East title in Dallas in 1988, the players were celebrating in the locker room as reporters filed in. Andre Waters, 26, was off to the side, capturing it with his video camera, when the distinctive voice of Reggie White called the team together for a prayer.

Compelled to join in, Andre handed his camera to the nearest person. It was still running, so I panned the joyous faces: White and Jerome Brown, Seth Joyner and Randall Cunningham. Then I centered the viewfinder on Waters and slowly zoomed in on his No. 20.

Someday, I figured, when he was old and looking back at his life, he'd have at least a few taped moments of himself in that huddle.

I don't know if Andre ever saw that video, or if he had any idea who took it. What hurts is knowing he'll never get old.

Phil Sheridan | Andre Waters: 1962-2006

Born: March 10, 1962 in Belle Glade, Fla.

High school: Pahokee (Fla.).

College: Cheyney, where he was a small-college all-American as a senior in 1983.

NFL career: Signed as an undrafted free agent, Waters played for the Eagles from 1984 to 1993. He played for the Arizona Cardinals in 1994 and 1995.

Position: Safety/cornerback.

Height: 5-foot-11.

Playing weight: 199 pounds.

NFL games: 156.

Sacks: 31/2.

Interceptions: 15.

Touchdowns: 1. (He scored on a fumble recovery against the New York Giants in a 1989 game.)

Tackles: Waters led the Eagles in tackles in four seasons.

[PhillyGirl]

Rich Hofmann | Another icon from the Buddy Ryan Era is gone too soon



NO MATTER how long you are in the business, you never get used to these phone calls. The hesitation as you prepare to punch in the numbers is always the same. You close the phone, open it, close it again, all the while rehearsing what you are going to say. "I'm a reporter from Philadelphia, and we just heard the word, and we're all so sorry... "

Eventually, you call. Only this time, the machine clicks on after a couple of rings. It is Andre Waters' voice:

"Hello. I'm sorry there is no one to answer your call at the present time. But if you leave a name and number, someone will return your call as soon as possible. Thanks and have a blessed day."

It stuns you, the whole thing, the voice juxtaposed with the awful reality that Waters had committed suicide at the age of 44. To some he was Dirty Waters, the caricature of a violent football assassin. To people who knew him better, he was a 5-11, 185-pound safety who came from nothing and turned himself into something, into a feared  professional.

To others, still - especially around here - Waters was another memorable character from their favorite Eagles era, from the defense that Buddy Ryan built in the late 1980s.

Reggie White was their majestic leader. Jerome Brown was their resident puppy dog. Waters was their passionate guided missile. They're all gone now, unspeakably.

Over a decade in Philadelphia, if you were around Waters, you saw him grow into a professional but, at the same time, you saw him never lose what might be described as his earnestness. It is a brutal business sometimes, and Waters had his share of injuries, and even the healthy guys leave the game with pain.

It hardens you to things. It had to harden him.

At the same time, though, the memory that always sticks is the one of this notebook that Waters used to carry around. He had been in the league for 3 or 4 years at that point. Undrafted out of Cheyney State, he showed up in 1984 and played well enough that Eagles coach Marion Campbell couldn't cut him. When Campbell was fired and Ryan was hired in 1986, Waters survived the inevitable roster purge that followed.

Ryan used to talk about how he wanted players who would drop their opponent on his head and then stand there and laugh at the fallen body. Waters was Ryan's kind of player. And even as Andre's safety-mate, Wes Hopkins, spent years sparring with Ryan over pretty much everything - Ryan's explanation for most long touchdowns was "Wes fell down," even when he didn't - Waters idolized the old man. And, so, the notebook. It contained all of the stuff Waters was studying, all of the stuff he needed to remember, and on the cover was penned a slogan, like a grade-school kid might write.

It said, "Soar Like A Eagle," and it summed up everything you needed to know about Waters: the tough upbringing in rural Florida, the loyalty, the innocence. Especially the innocence.

It was such an irony: innocence and Dirty Waters. He never reveled in the nickname, not really. He never even got why people said it about him. He understood that he pushed the boundaries, but he thought he was just a tough player. Even though the league ended up changing some rules specifically because of his insistence on hitting quarterbacks in the knees, Waters never really recognized the problem.

His most famous incident that way might have been a Monday night game in 1990 against Minnesota, when he twice went after the knees of Vikings quarterback Rich Gannon.

On the ABC telecast, analyst Dan Dierdorf railed against Waters, calling him "the cheap-shot artist of the National Football League."

After the game, Gannon was justifiably livid. Waters' response was:

"The quarterback is just like any offensive player. I'll tackle anybody at the knees - not only the quarterback, but running backs, wide receivers, anybody. If the quarterback shouldn't get hit at the knees, then he shouldn't be allowed on the field."

NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue disagreed, sternly. He fined Waters $10,000, a large amount of money back then.

But there were other incidents. Waters was fined for hits on other quarterbacks, including the Rams' Jim Everett and the Falcons' David Archer. He
incurred the wrath of many others, too. The Oilers hated him because of a hit he laid on a wide receiver, Drew Hill, on a pass that was thrown 10 feet over everyone's head. The Bengals were mad at him for things he said in a verbal back-and-forth with running back Stanley Wilson, who was a recovering drug addict.

So, on the one hand, there was Dirty Waters. Just as real, though, was this truth: that everybody who spent any timegetting to know Waters ended up liking him. He came from nothing in Pahokee, Fla., and turned himself into a solid pro and a local legend. He continued on after retiring, unable to get into the NFL but coaching in small colleges. Last year, at the Reggie White tribute at Lincoln Financial Field, he couldn't have seemed happier to be there.

Now, this. This grand, rollicking, hilarious era of Eagles football has seen another death. Maybe someday, someone will explain.

[GeneralZOD]

Man, this is brutal.....

  If there is some type of Philly curse, I can guarantee that good ole #20 is putting the boots to it right now.  There were so many good memories of Waters that it's impossible for me to count them all.  I've been following the Birdz since 1975, and in all of those years no one had more heart for this team, the city, and its fans like Andre Waters.  The colt has been spilled, and I got the DRS playing in the background for ya...  RIP Andre.

[rjs246]

You whine too much.

Waters badass play and nasty 'tude vs. Dawkins being probably one of the best saftey's ever in the NFL, and probably the guy who helped revolutionize the posistion, in addition to being a big hitter. Who's the true number 20 on the Eagles D in everyones mind? Just because Gang Green is what got you into football doesn't mean you have to whine because I want to hear what people think about it. Waaah waaaah.

I'd really like them to retire #20 for both guys, like FF pointed out. Especially with the untimely death of Waters.

I repeat, you are a joke. This is the thinking of a child. Wondering who the 'true' #20 is. It's basic and moronic. Ask any Eagles fan and they'll tell you that they love both players and that the fact that they wore the same number, while coincidental, never played a role in how much they liked/disliked that player. Only someone with substandard intelligence would wonder aloud, "Hey I wonder which one is the true #20." They were both number 20. One of them is a better player, the other represented a completely different era of the team. It's a stupid question and you should kill yourself immediately.

[ice grillin you]

respect

[PhillyPhreak54]

I'd love to see a clip of him killing Drew Hill in the House of Pain game.

Him & Chuck Cecil were the assassins in the early 90's.

[ice grillin you]

i have the house of pain game on dvd...unfortunately i dont know the first thing about how to get any of it on the computer

[PhillyPhreak54]

Are you able to copy DVDs? I'd kill to have a copy of that.

[ice grillin you]

i can but youd be like 50th in line to get a copy and i only have a real time stand alone burner...meaning it takes me like 3.5 hrs to burn one copy

[PhillyPhreak54]

Thats cool...whenever you have a chance and get the others taken care of. Lemme know how much when you get around to it.

[hbionic]

Are you able to copy DVDs? I'd kill to have a copy of that.

Phreak, I'll be 1st in your line for you to burn it for me. I called it.