06/07 Phillies Offseason Thread

[mpmcgraw]

No, Rowand is just about a replacement level player offensively.

So he is an average player.  Burrell is an above average player by a substantial amount though. 

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

I like VORP and WARP more if you know what they are.

gladly i dont...and if i ever do its time to end myself

seamheads die 

It basically means "how much better are you than Chris Coste and Eude Brito"....

I say Eude, you say Brito...

EUDE!

[Rome]

No, Rowand is just about a replacement level player offensively.

So he is an average player.  Burrell is an above average player by a substantial amount though. 

What makes Burrell above average?  Is it his ability to strike out 150-160 times a season, his pedestrian (at best) outfield play, his almost non-existent hitting with RISP, his post all-star break collapses, or his stellar character?

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

[mpmcgraw]

No, Rowand is just about a replacement level player offensively.

So he is an average player.  Burrell is an above average player by a substantial amount though. 

What makes Burrell above average?  Is it his ability to strike out 150-160 times a season, his pedestrian (at best) outfield play, his almost non-existent hitting with RISP, his post all-star break collapses, or his stellar character?

No, its his ability to walk 100 times and hit for a .500+ SLG % that makes Burrell an above average player.

Everyone who is not living in the past realizes that strikeouts do not have as much as a negative effect as originally thought.  The difference between striking out 130 times and putting the ball in play an extra 50 times is very small.  I will trade the strikeouts for his patience at the plate every day of the week.

[Rome]

Lifetime .258 hitters are not above average.  They're the walking, talking definition of the word.

Also - Burrell's lifetime slugging percentage is .479 and he's never once walked 100 times.  He's gotten close twice to the 100 walk mark but that's only because he looks at more third strikes than any other player in the game.

He's average, kid.  And the kind of money he's making and the kind of position he's in (as Howard's wingman) make him a clusterfarg as a player.  That's why Gillick is doing everything he can to get rid of him and NO ONE is taking him.

[Sgt PSN]

I will trade the strikeouts for his patience at the plate every day of the week.

So when he gets caught looking at strike 3 he's just being patient? Got it.  All this time I thought he was sucking. 

[Sgt PSN]

Somewhere in a deep, dark corner of the internet, Dave Spadaro is wishing he covered the Phillies. 

[Rome]

I will trade the strikeouts for his patience at the plate every day of the week.

So when he gets caught looking at strike 3 he's just being patient? Got it.  All this time I thought he was sucking. 

Stop living in the past, old man.  Strikeouts mean nothing! 

You know, especially when there's men on base and your team pays you tens of millions of dollars to drive them in.

[PhillyPhreak54]

I'm not exactly shocked by this, well maybe a little bit, but the posters on PhilliesPhans are blasting this move. Why on earth they are ripping getting a 200IP a year starter for a brain dead washout prospect and a kid who may or may not be good and only put up so-so numbers in AA is mind boggling.

Because they love to overrate prospects on that site than throw a guy like Hamels in your face and say "that is why you don't trade prospects" even though Gonzalez is nowhere near the talent Hamels is.

Umm, no they dont.  And if you people actually had the attention span to read more than three pages it seems that there is no general consensus on the trade and if there is one it is pretty much "well let's wait and see how this trade turn outs'. 

I dont like this deal right now unless we ink Garcia for a few more years. 

You're WHEELS on the EMB, right? Your little hissy fit in the Phils thread after the deal is funny.

I HATE GILLICK

Fricken nut job.

HEY GUYS WE HAVE A LOT OF PROMISING PITCHERS AND SOME REALLY GOOD DEPTH WITH YOUNG PITCHING LETS TRADE ARGUABLY OUR BEST PROSPECT AWAY FOR A ONE YEAR RENTAL THAT IS MEDIOCRE TO BEGIN WITH!!

THIS IS THE BEST PART!! COMCAST IMPLIED THAT WE GAVE THEM GIO INSTEAD OF ROWAND!!! SO THEY WANTED ROWAND MORE BUT LUCKILY WE GOT OUT OF THAT TRADE WITHOUT HAVING TO GIVE HIM UP!!

[Sgt PSN]

I will trade the strikeouts for his patience at the plate every day of the week.

So when he gets caught looking at strike 3 he's just being patient? Got it. All this time I thought he was sucking.

Stop living in the past, old man. Strikeouts mean nothing!

You know, especially when there's men on base and your team pays you tens of millions of dollars to drive them in.

Oh, I'm a believer now.  mpmpmpmcgraw showed me the error of my ways.  hallelujah, brotha!!!

[mpmcgraw]

Lifetime .258 hitters are not above average.  They're the walking, talking definition of the word.

Also - Burrell's lifetime slugging percentage is .479 and he's never once walked 100 times.  He's gotten close twice to the 100 walk mark but that's only because he looks at more third strikes than any other player in the game.

He's average, kid.  And the kind of money he's making and the kind of position he's in (as Howard's wingman) make him a clusterfarg as a player.  That's why Gillick is doing everything he can to get rid of him and NO ONE is taking him.

Batting average is a terrible way of judging and player dont even try to suggest that it is valid.

Burrell's lifetime averages also include 03 and 04.  You know as well as I do that 05 and 06 Burrell is substantially better and the more recent production is much more important

You are nitpicking with the 100 walks and it it just shows that you know you have a strawman argument.  He had 99 walks last year dude.  Give up. 

So over the past two years he has put up a .500 +SLG and a .380+OBP thanks to his walks.  You thought Burrell had a very good season in 05, you have said it before and if you want to deny sometime over the weekend I will dig it up.  The only difference between Burrell's 05 and 06 was that his batting average went down and his walks went up.  He had about the same year as 05.

I know you like clutchitude and what not, but they are stats of luck.  If you dont think so just look at Burrell's 05 splits.  They vary greatly from year to year with almost any given player.   

Any baseball man worth his salt has repeteadly compared Burrell's hitting abilities to Lee and Soriano(outside of speed obviously) this offseason, including the likes of Gammons and Rosenthal and countless bloggers, internet writers, etc that according to Fast Freddie I am all responsible for myself. (go figure) 

His VORP was a little over 27 that is the definition of above average.  Carlos Lee was aroundd 28. 

Aaron Rowand was .3.   

[PhillyPhreak54]

No, Rowand is just about a replacement level player offensively.

So he is an average player.  Burrell is an above average player by a substantial amount though. 

What makes Burrell above average?  Is it his ability to strike out 150-160 times a season, his pedestrian (at best) outfield play, his almost non-existent hitting with RISP, his post all-star break collapses, or his stellar character?

No, its his ability to walk 100 times and hit for a .500+ SLG % that makes Burrell an above average player.

Everyone who is not living in the past realizes that strikeouts do not have as much as a negative effect as originally thought.  The difference between striking out 130 times and putting the ball in play an extra 50 times is very small.  I will trade the strikeouts for his patience at the plate every day of the week.

Jesus. Strikeouts are bad. No matter what type of alphabet soup type stat you can come up with it doesn't matter because strikeouts are bad any way you cut it.

When Patty K's looking with runners on 2nd and 3rd it means more than when he draws a walk. When you put the ball in play you have a shot to drive runners in. When you swing and miss you do not.

It ain't rocket science. There is such a thing as being too in love with stats and you're an example, man.

[Sgt PSN]

Batting average is a terrible way of judging and player dont even try to suggest that it is valid.

Batting average doesn't count either?!?!?!?!  Man, I have been living in the farging dark ages.  I'm so ashamed. 

[mpmcgraw]

I will trade the strikeouts for his patience at the plate every day of the week.

So when he gets caught looking at strike 3 he's just being patient? Got it.  All this time I thought he was sucking. 

It's a flaw in his game.  You can choose to live with it and take his other qualities that obviously help the team or you can dwell on it and have the memory of him constantly throwing his ass out overwhelm everything good you see him do for the team.