the random musings not worthy of new thread thread

[Sgt PSN]

I was of the mindset that dubbya is/was the worst president of all time.  Until....

The Bush Administration's unending trashing of the Bill of Rights alone makes him the worst president ever.  Idiotic wars, reckless spending sprees, utterly inept handling of the "war" on terror, trashing the environment, domestic bungling of crises in our own country (New Orleans especially)... the list goes on and on.

shtein, when you put it that way, dubbya might not only be the greatest president ever, but the greatest American of all time.  Excessive spending, killing the environment, wasting resources and everything.  That's the American way and no one's done it better than our Georgie boy. 

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Respect the homosexual from Pennsylvania and pick on the monkey faced moron from Texas.

Fixed.

Wikipedia actually ranks the Presidents - Bush is middle-of-the-pack.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

While Wikipedia is not a definitive source, I think Warren G. Harding wins:

Corrupt and short administration, Teapot Dome Scandal, opposed internationalism and Wilson's League of Nations, moved America into isolationism, presided over beginning of the "Roaring Twenties," confided "I am not fit for this office and never should have been here", numerous affairs, personal scandals and misuse of government resources

[Diomedes]

alright well I'm not going to bicker about it.  suffice it to say his name belongs among the ranks of the very worst and we can all go back to whatever it was we were doing.

[MDS]

Harding was beyond corrupt, but he didn't spend a trillion dollars and cost over 10,000 iraqi lives, over 5,000 american lives on a purposeless and meaningless war. he also didnt not even try to catch the man reasponsible for the most catostrophic day in american history, and also didnt lit a major american city sit in ruins for two days before bothering to do something about it.

worst. president. ever.

[Diomedes]

Harding was beyond corrupt, but he didn't spend a trillion dollars and cost over 60,000 iraqi lives, over 3,200 american lives on a purposeless and meaningless war. he also didnt not even try to catch the man reasponsible for the most catostrophic day in american history, and also didnt lit a major american city sit in ruins for two days before bothering to do something about it.

worst. president. ever.

adjusted those numbers for accuracy sake...they can be disputed but these numbers are a lot closer to the fact than yours

[Geowhizzer]

I don't want to get into the GWB hate-filled pissing match, so I'll just say this about the Presidential rankings;

JFK is grossly overrated.

[Diomedes]

bullshtein

dude singlehandedly averted a nuclear war

[Diomedes]

AND banged Marylyn Monroe

[Geowhizzer]

bullshtein

dude singlehandedly averted a nuclear war

1.  Very few of his own initiatives were actually passed by Congress.  He had a hard time getting anything through a Congress actually controlled by his own party.  Most of the program often attributed to Kennedy was actually pushed through Congress by his successor, Lyndon Johnson.

2.  Made big goof in allowing the Bay of Pigs invasion (and knowing that it was initiated initally under Eisenhower, but was given the go-ahead by Kennedy).

3.  Events of Consequence:  Cuban Missile Crisis (probably the closest the US & USSR came to ending it all), Berlin Wall, slight escalation of Vietnam (no fighting troops yet, but more "advisors," (to about 16,000), the US "overlooking" the overthrow and assassination/execution of Ngo Dinh Diem.

4.  Major Achievements:  Beginning of Space Race (coming to fruition after Kennedy's death), Peace Corps, surviving the Cuban Missile Crisis (single-handedly?), Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.

5.  Economy:  Unemployment rose during years 1960-1962, then settled back to the original point by Kennedy's death.  Inflation rates also had a small spike during the years of the Kennedy Presidency.

I'm not trying to place Kennedy in the bottom tier; he's an average (or slightly above) President.  To me, a ranking of Kennedy in the 16-20 range or so would be more fitting to Kennedy's actual performance.  In the Wikipedia list, I'd push Madison, Johnson, Reagan, Monroe, Cleveland (perhaps the most underrated President on the list) and McKinley over Kennedy.  Bill Clinton (21) would rank higher as well for actual performance during his presidency.  This would slot Kennedy around 19, about where I see him belonging.

Kennedy is more fondly remembered for "what could have been" by a lot of Americans, and his image has been almost romanticized by the modern media.  To me, his actual performance as President does not deserve a ranking higher than the men I have listed above.

Oh, and Bush at #22 would be a huge reach as well. I'd say 26-30.

And Watergate and Watergate alone puts Nixon down at 32.  Probably deservedly so, but other than that Nixon was much more successful (visit USSR, relations with China, SALT, end of Vietnam) than the 10 guys immediately in front of him.  The scandal killed his reputation.

[Diomedes]

perhaps not single handedly, but splendidly

[Geowhizzer]

One more thought on those rankings:

I LOVE the fact that Truman is ranked so high.  He often gets forgotten in the FDR-Eisenhower-JFK love fests.  He was a President that wasn't afraid to fight for what he thought was right, even if he was the only one in the government that believed so.

He often faced a hostile Congress, and was probably the lowest-rated President in the popularity polls during his presidency (except for the current occupant) in the Post-WWII era.  Republicans hated him because he tried to follow FDR's New Deal, with some embellishment of his own.  Democrats hated him because wasn't FDR.  Southerners hated him because he desegregated the armed forces (the only place he could do so with out authorization from Congress, acting as Commander-in-Chief).  Elitists hated him because he didn't have a college degree (the last President - and the only one in the 20th century - to be without one).

Some kill Truman off because of his decision to use the atomic bomb (the necessity of which is debated today, but most of the leadership at the time - not all - believed it was necessary to save American lives that would be lost in a full-scale invasion.  He also had to deal with the perceived Soviet threat, the beginning of the Cold War, and guiding the conversion of the American economy from wartime to consumer production (along with millions of newly released soldiers who needed a job), which made many fear a return of the depression era.  All this while following the guy who rated number one on this, and most, lists.

Harry gave 'em hell, alright.  One of my personal favorite presidents.

[Geowhizzer]

perhaps not single handedly, but splendidly

One could argue that he did as much to nearly cause the nuclear war as he did in helping to solve the conflict.

He did, however, know how to manipulate television.  He was a master and pioneer in managing the media.  Perhaps the first "modern" president in that way.

[Diomedes]

My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Truman..she was a distant cousin..(2nd? -- I forget) to Harry Truman.

I farg better than he did.  Just ask grandma.

[Geowhizzer]

Here's a good article on the Cuban Missile Crisis - all is not what it seems.

Here's the main page for this website on the Crisis.