Phillies Spring Training Talk

ice grillin you · February 24, 2006, 09:10:35 PM

eff dykstra...he openly admits hes a met...unless he has a ticket he doesnt ever go in cbp

dallas green is a given

then i go samuel

everyone else can wait for now

PhillyPhreak54 · February 24, 2006, 09:55:56 PM

No love for Kruk?

MDS · February 24, 2006, 10:07:38 PM

someone one the espn boards said something about abreu, hamels, tejeda and bourn for oswalt and berkman. its something like that, and it doesnt even matter because thats about the most unlikely trade rumor ive ever heard.

ice grillin you · February 24, 2006, 10:20:32 PM

No love for Kruk?

i love kruk...but to me he was more a caricature than a great player like samuel or a phillie lifer like daulton...in fact id add daulton to my list

Sgt PSN · February 25, 2006, 03:16:14 AM

Quote from: ice grillin you on February 24, 2006, 10:20:32 PM
No love for Kruk?

i love kruk...but to me he was more a caricature than a great player like samuel or a phillie lifer like daulton...in fact id add daulton to my list

Kruck was a .300 lifetime hitter, played 2 positions and wore 3 different numbers while with the Phillies. Yeah, he was sort of a charicature but at the same time, he's (and Lenny D) probably the first person who comes to mind whenever I hear "93 Phillies".

He's play on the field certainly may not be worthy of "Wall of Fame" honors. His stats are good, but nothing spectacular. But at the same time, I have a hard time thinking of too many Phillies who were as popular as Kruk among the fans. He was a very good player on one of the few "great" teams in Phillies history and that's why I think he at least deserves strong consideration.

ice grillin you · February 25, 2006, 08:22:36 AM

dont get me wrong im not anti kruk...if he makes who cares...i just personally wouldnt put him there...certainly not until numerous others make it first

he was a good player and only played half his career with the phils...just because the great white hope segement of the fanbase treated him and the other dirty ass steroid bangin beer swilling rednecks as gods doesnt mean hes automatic imo

PhillyPhreak54 · February 25, 2006, 09:07:53 AM

If Daulton is inducted will he wear a tinfoil hat to his induction ceremony? Will he give a speech about the Mayan calendar and the world ending on 12-12-12?

I liked Dutch too. And even though he was a terrible hitter until Nail started shooting him up he was a great leader on that team.

stalker · February 25, 2006, 10:02:19 AM

Dykstra
Daulton
Samuel

Geowhizzer · February 25, 2006, 06:53:05 PM

Daulton? No way.

LIFETIME .245 average.
ZERO seasons over 30 HR.
TWO seasons over 100 RBI. Heck, TWO seasons over 65 RBI.
FOUR seasons over 100 games.

Daulton's career can't even be considered average- MAYBE average for a catcher. And I loved the guy when he played.

Look at the list of "most similar" players:
1. Mike Macfarlane (937)
2. Charles Johnson (925)
3. Ernie Whitt (921)
4. Andy Seminick (921)
5. Gus Triandos (918)
6. Ed Bailey (915)
7. Tom Haller (907)
8. Jody Davis (905)
9. Todd Hundley (900)
10. Darrin Fletcher (886)

To me, putting Daulton in would seriously lower the threshold of career achievement needed to be placed on the wall. Will Mickey Morandini be next? His career average was nearly 20 points higher than Daulton's.

My three would include:
1. Fred Luderus- Probably the leader of the Phils' first pennant-winner in 1915. Slick fielder at 1B and 2nd best hitter on the team after Gavvy Cravath.
2. Dallas Green- I know he only managed two+ seasons, but he did win the ONLY World Series in team history.
3. Pinkey Whitney- The best Phillies 3B ever- until 1972.
3a. Gene Mauch- Most wins of any Phils' manager ever (645); a sentimental pick (passed on last August).

(I haven't decided between Whitney and Mauch yet.)

If I was to vote with my heart, I would put in Ron Reed. He was a long-time Phillie 98 seasons), and a stalwart for years coming out of the pen (57 wins in relief, including 13 in 1979). Al Orth won 100 games for the late-19th century teams. Don Hurst had similar career power numbers to Daulton- in only six seasons with the Phils. Larry Christenson pitched for the Phils his entire career (11 seasons- 2nd to Schmidt all-time) and won 83 games.

Honestly, I would place all these guys above Daulton, Dykstra or Kruk. Of the three, Kruk had the most consistent career, Dykstra the best prime, and Daulton had two good seasons amid a career of mediocrity.

I will guess that one of those three will be included, since it was a fan balloting and fans tend to be short-sighted in terms of baseball history (what they haven't see before). Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if all three went in together. I just think that some of the other players are more deserving.

stalker · February 25, 2006, 07:43:05 PM

If anyone cares I recieved a 1971 Philles yearbook for Christmas. It is for the opening season of the Vet. It has 7 or 8 full pages singing the praises of the new state of the art stadium. In retrospect, it's pretty funny. It says Don Money is the third baseman for years to come. Alot of weird 70's retro stuff. If you guys want I'll scan in the Vet stuff. Let me know if there's any interest.

MDS · February 25, 2006, 07:49:25 PM

is this real or just something you imagined when smoking crack rocks?

Geowhizzer · February 25, 2006, 08:47:43 PM

Quote from: stalker on February 25, 2006, 07:43:05 PM
If anyone cares I recieved a 1971 Philles yearbook for Christmas. It is for the opening season of the Vet. It has 7 or 8 full pages singing the praises of the new state of the art stadium. In retrospect, it's pretty funny. It says Don Money is the third baseman for years to come. Alot of weird 70's retro stuff. If you guys want I'll scan in the Vet stuff. Let me know if there's any interest.

I'd love to see some of that stuff.

I bought a beat-up 1966 yearbook on eBay awhile back. Love reading some of the articles in older publications.

LBIggle · February 25, 2006, 10:44:33 PM

kevin stocker.

ice grillin you · February 25, 2006, 11:14:16 PM

Daulton? No way.

LIFETIME .245 average.
ZERO seasons over 30 HR.
TWO seasons over 100 RBI. Heck, TWO seasons over 65 RBI.
FOUR seasons over 100 games.

stats are very low on the list here...this isnt the HOF and youre making a HOF argument...its all about whos the most phillie...and dutch is right up there....

Rome · February 25, 2006, 11:37:21 PM

Quote from: stalker on February 25, 2006, 07:43:05 PM
If anyone cares I recieved a 1971 Philles yearbook for Christmas. It is for the opening season of the Vet. It has 7 or 8 full pages singing the praises of the new state of the art stadium. In retrospect, it's pretty funny. It says Don Money is the third baseman for years to come. Alot of weird 70's retro stuff. If you guys want I'll scan in the Vet stuff. Let me know if there's any interest.

I have the exact same book. I got it on opening day 1971 at the Vet with my Dad. I was only five at the time and I can still remember it like it was yesterday. We drove down from Jenkintown past the old Connie Mack Stadium in North Philly, and I swear, my Dad had a tear in his eye when we passed it. I don't remember much about the game other than we were wayyyyyyyyyyyy upstairs in the 700 Level in the outfield.