They got Al-Zawahiri?!

[phillymic2000]

Uh dude, it was Afghanistani lives this time. Duh.

Same difference.  America is every bit the terrorist villain that it claims to combat.

So what do you recommend Dio, leave them alone, pull out of the middle east region, don't worry about them, they are harmless if we leave them be. If you haven't noticed they don't just want us out of the middle east, they want me, you, and everyone else that does not conform to their ways of life dead, it is that simple.

[Rome]

Making sure that the target you're after is actually there before blowing shtein up would be a good first move.

LIMITING collateral damage would be a good second move.


The farging inept, clueless, hapless civilian leadership in this so-called war on terror will be the end of all of us.

[phillymic2000]

Making sure that the target you're after is actually there before blowing shtein up would be a good first move.

LIMITING collateral damage would be a good second move.


The farging inept, clueless, hapless civilian leadership in this so-called war on terror will be the end of all of us.

I agree with the collateral damage, but a lot of these scum bags surround themselves with civilians because they know how we are. These guys hated us before the war, and will hate us after the war, but the only way to deal with them is kill them. You cannot strike a deal with these guys.

[Diomedes]

So what do you recommend Dio, leave them alone, pull out of the middle east region, don't worry about them, they are harmless if we leave them be. If you haven't noticed they don't just want us out of the middle east, they want me, you, and everyone else that does not conform to their ways of life dead, it is that simple.

You are mistaken.  The idea that they hate freedom is a ludicrous government soundbyte.  They hate American imperiallism, corporations, and military presence.  They fight for the freedom of sovereignity: to run their own countries and societies without having Shell and McDonalds, MTV and "democracy" shoved down their throats.  They have been very explicit in their demands:  America, it's military, and it's corporations Out of Iraq.  Out of Saudi Arabia.  Out of Egypt.  Out of Palestine.  This "war" cannot be won by killing.  America is creating enemies faster than we can kill them.  Enemies who are happy to die.  You cannot defeat an enemy who welcomes death, with death.  Especially not when you kill--knowingly-a dozen innocent people at the same time.

What do I recommend?  Stop bombing, for one.  All bombs are instruments of terror.  Get U.S. military out of all of the above places ASAP.  Rely on diplomacy and focus our efforts on our own people, in our own land.  If that means no more SUVs, so be it. In short, abandon empirialism and behave like a civilized country.

I recommend the U.S. join the rest of the world community in acting as a unit against rogue nations, even if the U.S. isn't perfectly happy with the plan.  America cannot simply bully the world into being what it thinks the world should be.  Time to cooperate, listen, and think.  Time to stop killing and stealing. 

I have no delusions that any of this will happen.  The game is over and done.  The U.S. has got the permanent war it wants, and that's it.  The wealthy who make (but don't actually fight) the war have nothing to gain by changing tactics.  The companies that America defends across the world have nothing to gain by stopping their slave labor practices.  It's all sewn up.  The measures needed at home to keep the dissenters down will only become more and more fascistic, but only the dissenters care, and they will be silenced eventually.  We've already got spying on law abiding Americans, even to the point of the pentagon classifying Quakers as a "threat.'   Intercepting telephone calls without warrants.  Reading U.S. citizen's private mail.  Abducting and holding American citizens without charge or legal representation  for years.  The White House paying journalists to plant positive stories in the press.  The Pentagon doing the same in the press outside the U.S.  Torturing prisoners of war, both for interrogation and for kicks.  Pre-emptive war, for Jeebus' sake! 

We are watching the birth of Nazi America.

[phattymatty]

i didn't realize that we were allowed to just drop bombs in Pakistan too.  thats kinda cool, hopefully France will be next.

[Diomedes]

..but a lot of these scum bags surround themselves with civilians because they know how we are...

Yep.  They know that even though America claims to respect life, we'll self-righteously kill a dozen innocent people just for the off-chance of killing an enemy.  They know that they don't have to do any actual recruiting--America will do it for them by terrorizing and killing innocent people.  They know when America talks about how civilized it is, and how much it values humanity, that America is lying.  Because if America weren't lying--if America were truly brave and truly cared about innocent life, then America wouldn't bomb that bulding, even if they knew the bad man was there.  If America were what it says it is, it would pass on that opportunity and strike at a time when innocent people don't have to die too.  They know that America would never put 2 million troops on the ground to spill their own blood and fight the war like men; America will fight safely from above, and slaughter babies rather than risk their own hides so the innocent don't have to perish.

[Diomedes]

i didn't realize that we were allowed to just drop bombs in Pakistan too. thats kinda cool, hopefully France will be next.

Hopefully, Texas or the White House will be next.

[MURP]

I had one of these terrorist guys in the dead pool last year and I think this is about the 4th time their has been a news story about him being killed by the US and it turns out to be false.   moral of the story?  dont take him in the dead pool.

[stillupfront]

The answer there is really quite simple. Kill everyone. Nuclear annihilation. Turn the middle east into a giant parking lot for oil trucks. We have the power but not the will to rule the world. It is time we stepped up to the plate and took our rightful place amongst the great civilizations in history. World conquest is within our ken in this lifetime. Sometimes a people must dare to embrace their destiny.

[General_Failure]

We have a hard enough time with 50 states and a handful of territories, and you want this government in charge of everything else too? Okay, let's go for it. The United States of Earth will elect an Indian or Chinese president every four years. The redneck states become forgotten in the great push for the Euro vote. The uprisings will be fun to watch on whichever cable news network you prefer.

[phillymic2000]

They know that America would never put 2 million troops on the ground to spill their own blood and fight the war like men; America will fight safely from above, and slaughter babies rather than risk their own hides so the innocent don't have to perish.

What? You got me laughing good on that one. America won't put troops on the ground? America fights safely from above? America is fighting an enemy that would NEVER EVER line up man for man with USA. I still can't believe you actually posted that. America is not perfect, and yes there is collateral damage, if one of our generals were in a childrens hospital, you can bet the house that a Terrorist wouldn't even think twice about blowing it up. So even though innocent people perish during times of war America takes more precaution with life then any of our enemies, they are killing their own freakin people in Iraq everyday for crying out loud, why aren't you pissing and moaning about all the innocent Iraq citizens slaugtered by Terrorists every day? No you'd rather bash the good ol USA cause they are the Evil ones, not the terrorits trying to suppress the Iraq Population, yep the USA is the bad ones evertime right Dio?

[stillupfront]

It has always been a dream of mine. One language (ours), one political party (republican), repeal women's sufferage, withhold voting rights from cowboy fans, deny legislative representation to Giant and taterskin fans. Damn! I should be president!

"....I have a dream"

[QB Eagles]

I had one of these terrorist guys in the dead pool last year and I think this is about the 4th time their has been a news story about him being killed by the US and it turns out to be false.   moral of the story?  dont take him in the dead pool.

I think that's Zarqawi.

This also seems to be the 5th or 6th time in recent months where Pakistani intelligence has reported something that turns out to be wrong.

[Diomedes]

What? You got me laughing good on that one. America won't put troops on the ground? America fights safely from above?

Bombs are terrorism.  The one used against these civilians was launched by an automated CIA drone.  No human risk to U.S. forces at all.  Numbers aren't kept for enemies killed, so I can't give you data, but a comparison between the number of U.S. combatants killed and the number of Iraqi combatants killed would illustrate my point nicely.  Conveniently, as Tommy Franks (likely a hero of yours) said "We don't do body counts."  In fact, we don't even count the innocent dead.  Other people do, though..and the numbers are agreed by even Bush to be greater than 30,000.  With only 2,160 or so dead U.S. soldiers, I don't think it's debatable which side is doing the bulk of the dying.

America is fighting an enemy that would NEVER EVER line up man for man with USA. I still can't believe you actually posted that.

U.S. war is cowardly.  We bomb from above and afar.  We kill civilians in order to achieve our ends, just like the terrorists do.  Man for man, Marine vs. insurgent, I'd put my money on the people who are glad to die, whose land is ocuupied, whose families have been murdered.  They always win.

America is not perfect, and yes there is collateral damage, if one of our generals were in a childrens hospital, you can bet the house that a Terrorist wouldn't even think twice about blowing it up.

Nor would we.  Because we're just like them.  Not better, as people like you insist, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.   Rule of law and respect for life, and all that bullshtein.  Osama bombed civilians in WTC, U.S. bombs them in small villages.   Same deal.  You don't seem to get it..no matter how bad they are, if we torture (as we do) then we are no better than Saddam, and we'll never win the battle for moral authority.  If we kill civilians in order accomplish military goals--especially if we do so without risking our own hides--we will never with the war for the hearts of Iraqis, or anyone esle for that matter.  Anyone who isn't already possessed of the idea that Americans are more imporant than Iraqis, that is.

So even though innocent people perish during times of war America takes more precaution with life then any of our enemies, they are killing their own freakin people in Iraq everyday for crying out loud, why aren't you pissing and moaning about all the innocent Iraq citizens slaugtered by Terrorists every day? No you'd rather bash the good ol USA cause they are the Evil ones, not the terrorits trying to suppress the Iraq Population, yep the USA is the bad ones evertime right Dio?

To say that America takes more caution to prevent civilian casualty than the "terrorists" is lousy reccomendation.  We're supposed to be better than them.  The fact is that we knowingly kill civilians in order to accomplish our objective.  Same as Osama.  If we really cared to avoid civilian death, we'd abandon remote warfare and send in troops.  It would mean that they'd have to actually fight and die at much higher rates, but at the end of the day, much fewer civilians would be dead.  Maybe three of those civlians in this story would have died, instaead of all of them.  But so woould a few of our precious American soldiers, so that's out of the question.
Did you ever read me posting that Al Queda isn't bad?  No you didn't, because I never said it.  You want to put words in my mouth, have fun.  But yeah, America is just as bad.  I'm ashamed to be American.

[Phanatic]

War is horrible and has been for a very long time. People romantisize about world war II and how we were the good guys (we were), but horrible things happened to innocent civilians. Carpet bombing Germany and parts of Europe on the way to victory certainly had its consequences. There just wasn't that media connection to broadcast the horrors of war.

Any nation tht commits to a war laser guided bombs or not should realize that they are commiting to a horrible conflict that will take innocents lives along the way. That is what War has been throughout human history. Saying that precision weapons eliminate the horrors of war is fooling yourself. America is not the terrorist, but has commited to 'War' against a tactic.

So the question? Is War and the sacrifice of all that life worth it?