Phillies Offseason Talk

[PhillyGirl]

Phils deserve a Pat on the back
(Thu, Nov/03/2005)

PHILADELPHIA - Pat Gillick didn't wear his 1993 World Series ring Wednesday, smartly deciding not to taunt the very people who had just hired him as their general manager.

It was a subtle move for his first day with the Phillies, and that is Gillick. He is subtle, and his words Wednesday were less revelatory than his 26-year history as one of baseball's best executives.

At first, to listen to Gillick at his introductory press conference was to think Phillies president David Montgomery had given him a list of Ed Wade platitudes to memorize and recite. The Phillies, Gillick said, "have a great team here. ... You're usually coming to a club that needs major rebuilding, reconstructing. I don't think that's the case here."

So surely, there were Phillies fans - specifically those who wanted a GM willing to take a flamethrower to the entire roster, sparing only Chase Utley and Ryan Howard - who went into apoplexy when they heard Gillick speak. Twelve years without the playoffs, one World Series in 123 years, and he's telling us how good the Phillies are? Oh, no, another yes man.

Which, of course, is wrong. In the choice between Gillick and former Houston GM Gerry Hunsicker, the Phillies could hardly go wrong. They cannot be blamed for hiring an executive who, with Toronto, Baltimore and Seattle, built nine playoff teams and the 1992 and '93 Blue Jays, winners of back-to-back World Series, by making big trades for big players: Joe Carter, Roberto Alomar, David Cone, Rickey Henderson.

And, truth be told, the Phillies should be credited for hiring someone with the background and backbone to tell them what they might not want to hear, even if he'll do so subtly.

It has been suggested that the Phillies were fearful of hiring Hunsicker because of his outspokenness. While with the Astros, he didn't hesitate to take on owner Drayton McLane and fight their battles about baseball philosophy out in the open. The Phillies abhor such public messiness, and maybe Gillick, from that perspective, was the less threatening of their two candidates.

But the man Montgomery hired is no wallflower, and he never has been. Make no mistake: Regardless of what he said Wednesday, Gillick won't stand for Montgomery or anyone else in the organization meddling with his vision for his new team's future. He never has.

In Baltimore, he clashed with owner Peter Angelos, leaving one year after Angelos fired manager Davey Johnson, and the Orioles haven't been back to the postseason since. In Seattle, with the Mariners leading the AL West in 2000 and 2001, he was lambasted for his purported reluctance to make deals at the trading deadline - the same sin for which Wade was rightly criticized. So someone asked him Wednesday: Did he want to make deadline moves in Seattle, and did ownership there prevent him from doing so?

"Hmmm..." he said, oh-so coyly. "We needed a little injection."

That conflict ultimately forced Gillick, 68, out as Seattle's GM and into the "special consulting" position he held for two years, until Montgomery came calling.

"I tried to convince the people to go in my direction, and I couldn't convince them to do it," Gillick said. "Consequently, you either stay put and accept that fact or move on."

For his eight years as the Phillies' GM, Wade proved he was willing to accept everything. He was a good solider, mostly because he had to be. He didn't have the cachet Gillick has, didn't have the reputation or the experience or the jewelry to justify telling Montgomery and his silent partners what needed to be done to win a world championship.

Gillick has those qualities, and he has the luxury of knowing that, if he walks away, the Phillies will be the ones worse for it. He has more power here than Wade ever did. Already on Wednesday morning, he telephoned Billy Wagner, hoping to coax the free-agent closer back to the Phillies.

Gillick said the team had to add, at a minimum, another starting pitcher, and that was how it went all afternoon - Gillick subtly suggesting that he would take a good, hard look at who the Phillies are, and what must be done.

"I think change is good," he said. "But you don't want to go off half-cocked and make changes. If you make any changes, you've got to evaluate the people and give them an opportunity and be fair with it. But after you give a person enough time, you may have to make a change."

Would the Phillies be willing to make those tough choices?

"I know they're committed to go to the playoffs, and if it means making a change, I think they would make changes."

Finally, too, they have a man you'd trust to make them.

[Rome]

If he's given full autonomy over the organization, I have no problem with his selection as G.M.

He won't and that's the problem in a nutshell.

[Wingspan]

If he's given full autonomy over the organization, I have no problem with his selection as G.M.

He won't and that's the problem in a nutshell.

in reality, if gillick wont...than neither would have anyone else. and this is all for naught

[MDS]

im shocked that chris wheelers love child jeff francouer didnt get it. well good job ryan howard. but seriously, how funny would it be to see the rookie of the year sent to scranton because they could trade thome? id die of pain and laughter.

[MDS]

minnesota paper says twins and phils have been talking thome deal. boom.,

[Geowhizzer]

minnesota paper says twins and phils have been talking thome deal. boom.,

Phils would have to eat a large chunk of Thome's contract to make that work, I would think.

Did the paper speculate who the Twins would be sending in the trade? 

A Mr. Hunter, perhaps? 

[BigEd76]

It's been rumored that the Phils would have to eat $36M of the contract.  Yeah, that'll happen....

[MDS]

your kinda gambling with making a deal. if thome comes to spring training (dont think itll be a disraction because everyone will know hes just there to audition for a trade) and gets hurt, then youre farged. If he proves hes the old jim thome, his trade value will sore. So, well see what kind of gambler Gillick is.

[PhillyPhreak54]

minnesota paper says twins and phils have been talking thome deal. boom.,

Phils would have to eat a large chunk of Thome's contract to make that work, I would think.

Did the paper speculate who the Twins would be sending in the trade? 

A Mr. Hunter, perhaps? 

Dude...if they got Torii Hunter I think I'd urinate myself with glee.

I love Hunter.

But hey'll probably get Nick Punto back.

Gotta link, MDS?

[Geowhizzer]

minnesota paper says twins and phils have been talking thome deal. boom.,

Phils would have to eat a large chunk of Thome's contract to make that work, I would think.

Did the paper speculate who the Twins would be sending in the trade? 

A Mr. Hunter, perhaps? 

Dude...if they got Torii Hunter I think I'd urinate myself with glee.

I love Hunter.

But hey'll probably get Nick Punto back.

Gotta link, MDS?

Torii's one of my favorite players, bar none.  He would definitely make the outfield defense 100% better.

Not sure if he solves many of the problems that plague the Phils' lineup (too many K's, lack of scoring consistency, etc), though.

[PhillyPhreak54]

I wouldn't care. Just gimme #48 in CF and I'm happy.

Then trade Abreu or Burrell for a SP.

Re-sign Wags too.

[MDS]

hunter= injury waiting to happen. i dont want him. hes a fantastic defensive outfielder, a decent hitter, but we have other viable cf options. no sense to committing to a non-elite cf (and hes not) with the likes of victorino, roberson and bourn waiting.

The Twins have verified that they have had conversations with Philadelphia management regarding a possible transaction for first baseman Jim Thome, where the Phillies would have to pick up a good share of Thome's contract. The deal has a balance of $43.5 million remaining for three years.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Shut up and stop raining on my wishes.

[MDS]

  hey he would be the only guy who could make the defense okay with howard in left. but obviously that makes no sense with thome being involved in the deal.

seriously, that would be setting the team back. hunter is nothing special, and he'll just reputre his shoulder crashing into the wall or something.

[MDS]

Phreak has liquid explosion

The Twins have had discussions with the Phillies about Jim Thome, who is owed $43.5 million over the next three years.
The Phillies would probably have to eat a bigger portion of the contract that they'd like in order to send Thome to Minnesota, and even if something is agreed to, Thome would have to waive his no-trade clause. A deal is unlikely, but the talks could get very interesting if expanded to include Torii Hunter and Jason Michaels