Phillies Offseason Talk

[Rome]

Zito's not an ace.  Schmidt > Zito.

Zito isn't an ace?  So, he didn't win the Cy Young award in 2002??

so steve bedrosian was an ace?

Yes, he was an ace.  He was an ace reliever.  And you're an acehole.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Zito's not an ace.  Schmidt > Zito.

Zito isn't an ace?  So, he didn't win the Cy Young award in 2002??

so steve bedrosian was an ace?

Bed-Rock!

[SunMo]

Bobby for Manny?

[Wingspan]

6.9M for an apartment?

[Geowhizzer]

Ramirez and Burrell in the same outfield?

One of two things will happen:

1.  Aaron Rowand will die around August 1.
2.  Phil's ERA tops 6.00 because of all the doubles and triples.

[Wingspan]

i am holding out hope that gillick finds a way to trade every player on the roster. give a whole new team from top to bottom. remove all losers

[SunMo]

Phils may make pitch for Rays closer

By RANDY MILLER
phillyBurbs.com

The Phillies are poised to make a run at replacing one All-Star closer with another.

With free agent Billy Wagner leaving for the New York Mets this week, the Phillies are expected to take a stab at prying Cuban right-hander Danys Baez from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

Meantime, the Phils remain very interested in signing free agent reliever Tom Gordon, preferably as a setup man to Baez or as a backup plan to close games.

To get Baez, who converted 41 of 49 save opportunities and was a first-time All-Star in 2005, the Phillies are willing to part with one or two of their top minor league pitchers. Word is they are considering offering 22-year-old right-hander Gavin Floyd, a 2001 first-round draft pick whose status as elite prospect slipped some this past season.

Baez is young at age 28 and signed for 2006 at a reasonable $4 million, but the risk is he's only a year away from free agency.

Coming off a 95-loss season, the perennially struggling Rays are receptive to dealing Baez and expect several teams to make good offers during next week's winter meetings.

The Phillies have been after Baez for years. They tried to sign the 6-3, 225 pounder after he first escaped Cuba, then later attempted to land him from Tampa Bay in a trade.

Baez has a Philadelphia tie in that he was managed his first two big-league seasons from 2001-2002 by Phillies manager Charlie Manuel. Baez moved from starter to closer in 2003 and converted 96 of 117 save opportunities over the last three seasons, the first two with the Indians and the last two with the Rays.

Gordon and Manuel never have been on the same team, but both own homes in the Winter Haven, Fla., area, and just last week they dined together.

"It was just lunch, but I like Tom," Manuel said. "I always liked him."

Gordon, 38, was a setup reliever the last two seasons for the New York Yankees and prefers to find work as a closer, which he did previously for Boston, the Chicago White Sox and Chicago Cubs. Baltimore is interested after losing closer B.J. Ryan to Toronto, and both New York teams are looking at Gordon for a setup role.
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Because Wagner and Ryan received lucrative deals, Gordon is expected to begin his asking price at three years and $15 million-to-$18 million after earning $3.75 million in 2005 while going 5-4 with a 2.57 ERA in 79 games. His age, however, could stop teams from offering three years.

With Wagner signing with the Mets for $43 million over four years and free agent Ugueth Urbina recently arrested in Venezuela for attempted murder, the Phils are looking to make sweeping changes to their bullpen this winter.

Free agent relievers Bob Wickman and Trevor Hoffman remain closing options, but the Phillies likely will shy away from hard-throwing right-hander Kyle Farnsworth, who had a breakout second half in Atlanta this season but comes with baggage.

Wickman, 36, has been closing since 1998 and saved a career-high 45 games for Cleveland in 2005.

"Bob was my closer in Cleveland, and he has guts," Manuel said. "He can do the job."

Depending on what the Phillies do before spring training, right-hander Ryan Madson may stay in the bullpen or get his wish and move to the starting rotation after spending his first two big-league seasons as a late-inning reliever.

"We have to wait and see what happens," Manuel said.

On Wednesday, the Phillies found a middle reliever by signing free agent right-hander Julio Santana to a one-year, $800,000 contract.

"Santana did a solid job in Milwaukee's bullpen, and he gives us some more options there," Phillies general manager Pat Gillick said.

Santana, 31, was 3-5 with a 4.50 ERA in 41 relief appearances for Milwaukee in 2005. He pitched in the Phillies' system in 2003 for Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, then turned his career around while pitching in Japan in 2004.

"Since coming back from Japan, Santana has been much better," said Manuel. "He's commanding his pitches now. He's a guy who can pitch in the sixth or seventh inning for us."

[Rome]

Baez would be a great addition.

If he can make it to the all-star game in a wasteland like Tampa Bay, imagine what he can do with a real team playing behind him.

I'd still go after Flash, though.  Set-up man or closer, he's still a great pitcher to have on the staff.

[SunMo]

the one thing about Baez you have to worry about is the no pressure thing in Tampa.  would he pitch differently on a team with playoff expectations?  possibly, but it's worth a shot.

[Rome]

Well, you can never tell how someone is going to handle the strain of playing in a major market like Philly.

I suppose you'd have to trust that his talent would rule the day.

[MDS]

manny said he doesnt want to come here. why do people make up stupid rumors. the least they could say is something this is possible.

baez is not worth floyd. the phillies have invested too much time and money into this kid to see him go somewhere else for a middle of the run closer. however, floyd was wades move. not gillicks. he probably doesnt care as much about them.

[Rome]

S>A>S proves he's even more of an ignorant imbecile when it comes to the Phillies than when he's talking about the Sixers:

Posted on Thu, Dec. 01, 2005


Stephen A. Smith | Phillies again lead league in ineptitude

By Stephen A. Smith

Inquirer Columnist


Here's all anyone in Philadelphia needs to know: After 429 home runs were hit at Citizens Bank Park over the last two seasons, the Phillies, looking to provide some much-needed assistance for their pitching staff, did not make sure they re-signed Billy Wagner. Instead, they're changing the dimensions in left field.

The fence will be moved back 5 feet. It will be raised from 8 feet to 101/2 feet. The only thing standing in the team's way is an approval from Major League Baseball.

So why isn't anyone laughing?

Probably because the Phillies regressed from comical to sad quite a long time ago.

Just to get matters straight: To stop opponents from smacking homers all over South Philadelphia, the Phillies are depending on construction workers instead of pitchers. At the moment, I'm wondering why they elected to stop there. Why not just go out and buy some binoculars for everybody?

To say the Phillies are a perpetually disheartening bunch doesn't begin to describe this organization. Even with general manager Pat Gillick in the mix - clearly astute at what he's doing - the organization's mere presence is enough to invoke a state of depression.

Time and again, the Phils are a day late and a dollar short. Time and again, they leave you exasperated, wondering what they're doing, perplexed over what they're thinking and feeling. You find it almost impossible to care any longer.

That's why no one should be surprised or take issue with Wagner's piercing words upon his arrival at Shea Stadium to don a New York Mets uniform on Tuesday afternoon, fresh off signing a four-year, $43 million deal.

"There's a difference between winning and being competitive," Wagner said, explaining the malady that plagues these Phillies. "In the end, I thought [the Phillies] were more interested in being competitive than winning."

Stop if you're about to applaud and say "Amen."

Wagner was absolutely correct in his assessment. And contrary to popular belief, it isn't just because of monetary concerns.

Gillick was on point when he intimated that five-year deals don't hold up. Wagner, 34, probably won't be as effective as he was with his 38 saves last season. But the issue here is Philadelphia's approach, not the veracity of Gillick's words.

The Phillies, committing their latest exercise in stupidity, put themselves behind the proverbial eight-ball just days after the Oct. 10 firing of GM Ed Wade when team president David Montgomery attempted to negotiate with Wagner - before Gillick was even hired.

Now, mind you, Montgomery did this one year after the Phillies were in position to re-sign Wagner at less than half the price he agreed to with the Mets on Monday. A closer known for throwing 100-m.p.h. fastballs, blessed with a nasty slider as well, could have been had for $20 million.

The Phillies didn't do it. Then Montgomery had the nerve to actually sit in front of Wagner and expect him to take anything he had to say seriously.

I'd love to imitate Forrest Gump by saying, "Stupid is as stupid does." Or mention that if the Phillies had been aggressive in signing Wagner last season, they would not have been in this situation. But what would be the point?

By now, it has become common practice with this bunch, along with the results.

Gillick goes out and pulls off a trade that sends Jim Thome to Chicago for centerfielder Aaron Rowand. He also gets a lefthanded pitcher in the process, and he nabs utility infielder Abraham Nuñez for $3.35 million over two years, sparing us from having to watch David Bell bat against righthanded pitching.

Yet, still, the Phillies manage to steal his thunder with the same ineptitude that has sullied their image for years.

They're not about winning, just claiming they tried. The Phillies are more about lip service than anything else, and Wagner called them out on it.

They may have a quality general manager now. They might even win because of him. But make no mistake, it will be in spite of the Phillies, who continually fail to live up to supposed lofty expectations.

"I like the position this team is in right now," Nunez told reporters after he signed. "I think [the Phillies] are going to be in the race. I just want to help this team win ball games. It's a good fit for me because I can help the team in many different ways. What's going on here is a great thing."

The stadium workers are probably saying the same thing.

Especially if there's some overtime involved in raising that fence.

No one but the Mets were going to give Wagner a four year deal with an option for a fifth.

NO ONE.

Someone should really call that icehole on his bullshtein columns once and for all.

[PhillyGirl]

I called SAS on his baseball drivel 2-3 years ago when he was talking about how the Phillies have NO catchers to back up Lieberthal and they'd have to go find a backup. That they were stupid and inept for going into a season without a backup catcher.

Um. He forgot about Todd Pratt and I called him on it.

He said he didn't follow baseball and (and I am not paraphrasing here) "a friend of his gave him that information."

I remember posting about it on the board when it happened. Really, REALLY pathetic.

[SunMo]

I called SAS on his baseball drivel 2-3 years ago when he was talking about how the Phillies have NO catchers to back up Lieberthal and they'd have to go find a backup. That they were stupid and inept for going into a season without a backup catcher.

Um. He forgot about Todd Pratt and I called him on it.

He said he didn't follow baseball and (and I am not paraphrasing here) "a friend of his gave him that information."

I remember posting about it on the board when it happened. Really, REALLY pathetic.

wow, that's embarassing for a columnist to say that.  but for SAS, it's not even his most embarassing moment.

remember the playoffs last year, when the Jets beat the Chargers.  SAS was ripping Marty Schottenheimer (sp?) because he did have his kicker kick the potential game winning FG on 3rd down.  his explanation for that, "if you miss on 3rd down, you get to try again of 4th down" 

just, wow.

[SunMo]

Manny-for-Abreu 'highly unlikely'

Dec 1 - ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports that a swap of Bobby Abreu for Manny Ramirez is "highly unlikely," according to a baseball official who has spoken with both clubs.
The deal was proposed by the Red Sox but quickly shot down, the official said, for several reasons. The primary reason is that the Phillies have been telling teams they are only interested in trading Abreu for top-of-the-rotation starting pitching. The second is that there is a major money imbalance. Ramirez has $57 million coming over the next three years. Abreu has two years, $30 million left on his deal. Both players can veto any trades.

The only way this trade could happen, then, is if the Red Sox were interested in trading a starting pitcher along with Ramirez, AND evening out all the money.

Meanwhile, Ramirez officially has put his $6.9 million condominium in Boston on the market, the Boston Globe reports. Ramirez wants to be traded, and his wish is to play for the Angels or the Mariners, the Boston Herald reports.

Teammate David Ortiz thinks Ramirez won't be in left field for the Red Sox come Opening Day. "Manny is not returning to Boston," Ortiz said recently. "Manny lives a difficult situation that only he and his family know about, and he does not want to play there."