Hurricane Katrina Devastates The Gulf Coast.

[Butchers Bill]

As a former member of the NJ National Guard I can tell you this...there is almost no way you can call up 10,000 troops within 24 hours.  At least in NJ, there are no "home bases"...there are only local armories where we did the majority of our training.  The closest thing to a "home base" would be Fort Dix but there is no way you can deploy 10,000 troops there that fast because there would no where to put all those people.

Could the response from locals been faster?  Yes.

Could the federal response have been faster?  Yes.

Would it have saved lives?  Yes, but we'll never know how many.

There is not one person/organisation to "blame" here.  It was a natural disaster exacerbated by the red tape associated with our form of government.  Most of the city was underwater after the levees/flood walls broke and it didn't matter how many troops you had at that point...you can't march through streets that are under 10+ feet of water.

There was no leadership at the local or National level..that is the most disturbing aspect.  It seems like the recovery efforts were leaderless and without coordination, and as mentioned by a few people here, that is mainly FEMA's domain.   

[Diomedes]

There is not one person/organisation to "blame" here. It was a natural disaster exacerbated by the red tape associated with our form of government.

No one person to blame?  Okay.  No one org to blame?  Ok.  Certainly it would be foolish to lay blame on one head, or one group.  What I can't stomach is this persistence that somehow it was the red tape that caused the deaths, not the people in charge.  That's bullshtein.  Sing yourself to sleep absolving the rulers all you want, it won't change the fact that they knew, they had the power to do something, and they did nothing.  American citizens died exactly because our government failed to protect them from a known threat, despite explicit warnings about this event, and in the face of constant evidence that the worst had occurred.  Every official at FEMA should be fired.  The head of Homeland Security should be fired.  And Bush should be impeached.  WTF good is a President if he can't lead the rescue of one of his own cities?  He failed.  He failed aggregiously.  There is more blood on the hands of our leaders than on the memory of Katrina herself.

Hurricane Center Director Tells Paper He Briefed Brown and Chertoff on Danger of Severe Flooding

NEW YORK Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center, told the Times-Picayune Sunday afternoon that officials with the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Department of Homeland Security, including FEMA Director Mike Brown and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, listened in on electronic briefings given by his staff in advance of Hurricane Katrina slamming Louisiana and Mississippi--and were advised of the storm's potential deadly effects.

"Mayfield said the strength of the storm and the potential disaster it could bring were made clear during both the briefings and in formal advisories, which warned of a storm surge capable of overtopping levees in New Orleans and winds strong enough to blow out windows of high-rise buildings," the paper reported. "He said the briefings included information on expected wind speed, storm surge, rainfall and the potential for tornados to accompany the storm as it came ashore.

"We were briefing them way before landfall," Mayfield said. "It's not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped."

Chertoff told reporters Saturday that government officials had not expected the damaging combination of a powerful hurricane levee breaches that flooded New Orleans.

Once again, I'll remind you:  Brown was fired from his last job, as judge for a horse club, landing with FEMA solely on the basis of his college friendship with one of Bush's pals.  None of these bastiches at FEMA know what the hell they are doing, and it's not even really they're fault.  THEY'RE NOT QUALFIED FOR THEIR JOBS!  BUSH FILLED THE POSITIONS BASED ON POLITICAL LOYALTY TO HIS REGIME.

[Diomedes]

FEMA just doesn't know WTF they're doing.

Nevada Cops made to Stand Down by FEMA

Shortly before they were set to leave for Hurricane Katrina-battered states, a group of about 100 law enforcement officers from across Nevada was told to stay put by the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

FEMA officials put the contingent on hold Sunday afternoon for one to three days until its mission can be determined, Nevada Highway Patrol spokesman Kevin Honea said.

The officers were in briefing at the NHP office in Las Vegas when they received the word. They had been scheduled to depart in a convoy of patrol cars at 3 p.m. Sunday from the office.

"It's our understanding the mission is still a go but just on hold," Honea said. "FEMA wants to ascertain where and how they will deploy us before sending us. They want us to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Obviously, there are some people who are disappointed."

FEMA officials had no immediate comment, saying they would need time to determine the source of the confusion.

Let me anticipate the reply:  They can't all rush in at once.  It's a big project, it can't run smoothly.  Blah blah blah. 
How about they let them leave Nevada and figure out what to do with them as they are en route?  It'll take a while to get there.

[Diomedes]

[government apologists]There's no way we could have known.  Bush didn't know.  Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco are at fault, they didn't ask for help loud enough.  Slurp, slurp.[/government apologists]

link

Parishes Against Coastal Erosion (PACE) Response to the Bush Administration's June 14, 2005 Policy Statement on the Proposed Energy Act of 2005

By Parishes Against Coastal Erosion

Scientists from the U.S. Geological Survey, NOAA and other federal and state agencies along with university experts agree that nowhere in the world is a coastal region losing wetlands and protective barrier islands faster than Louisiana. About this there is no doubt. It is predicted that by 2050, one third of coastal Louisiana will have vanished into the Gulf of Mexico. Our coast and its wetlands is a system on the verge of collapse. Without wetlands to buffer storms, our people and property and the nation's energy supply are at risk. Oil and gas pipelines and facilities, which provide 25% of the Nation's energy needs, are more vulnerable with each storm. Oil and gas activities and federal actions to control the Mississippi River for navigation and flood control are largely responsible for the drastic loss of our coastal. PACE believes we are completely within our right to ask the federal government to share money generated from offshore oil and gas revenues with the coastal states that bear a disproportionate burden in supporting this nation's energy needs.

Louisiana's congressional delegation has urged Congress for more than a decade to return to the state a fair share of the revenue from the production of offshore oil and gas both because of the impact of offshore production on Louisiana and because interior states get 50% of revenues from oil and gas production on federal lands.

The president has supported the concept, but has backed off when it comes to funding the restoration effort. PACE believes Louisiana can no longer afford to wait. Louisiana urgently needs guaranteed resources to thwart a catastrophe that is not being given the sense of urgency that it demands.

We believe the case has been made. Louisiana's wetlands - America's WETLAND - is crucial to the nations oil and gas production, commercial fisheries, navigation and commerce and national security. Restoring the damage hastened by years of inland and offshore drilling is clearly a national responsibility.

The President, in this Policy Statement, has failed us. To sidestep this as a key issue would be a serious deficiency, in the Energy Bill, and the entire nation will suffer as a consequence.

Our Louisiana legislature this month passed a constitutional amendment requiring any new offshore oil and gas revenue to be put in a trust fund dedicated to coastal erosion.

Louisiana has made a commitment. Now, it's time for the President to step up to the plate and support funding to prevent the untold damage to the ecology, economy and potential loss of life in large numbers.

With the National Hurricane Center predicting another active hurricane season, PACE President Aaron Broussard said he fears that it is going to take a major storm and significant loss of life before the nation acts responsibly.

The PACE organization's frustration with the Administration's Statement was reflected in St. Bernard Parish President, Henry "Junior" Rodriguez's comment that "Louisiana contributes much to this Nations energy needs. It's time we take a hard look at our alternatives and consider whether we want to keep up this level of oil and gas production."

If you have any questions, please contact Jefferson Parish President and PACE President, Aaron Broussard at (504) 736-6400.

It's already been shown eslewhere in this thread how highly Bush valued these warnings and others like them.  He cut the budgets every year.

[Drunkmasterflex]

Has Bush put the White House flag at half mast yet?  Who makes that call?  I mean, who tells the nation to do it?  I submit that it's time to lower all the flags.

That is a good call if it hasn't been done it should be right now.

[PhillyGirl]

Tsunami nations offer disaster advice to US

[Diomedes]

Editor and Publisher

President Bush, in his weekly radio address on Saturday, said: "In America, we do not abandon our fellow citizens in their hour of need." But Bush, and his top aides, quite frankly, did just that.

I was reminded of this today, seeing pictures of Vice President Dick Cheney finally showing up at the White House after riding out the storm-of-the-century in Wyoming. Perhaps he brought back with him a couple dozen trout to throw on the grill for the White House staffers.

His absence, and the president's performance during it, can only add to the rumors that Bush is clueless without the Big Guy
at his side.

This follows Bush himself remaining on vacation for more than two days after the storm hit, despite acknowledging this was the worst disaster in the nation's history. He did take a trip during those days, not back to Washington but out to San Diego to deliver a political speech comparing his Iraq war to World War II. [SD_Eagle played a cameo here, but considering the circumstances I'll forgive E&P the omission this time.]  It got little play because nearly everyone else in the country, beyond his inner circle, was focused on New Orleans instead.

What that trip did produce was a picture of Bush laughing with a country singer and strumming a guitar. But at least the president did start heading home late Wednesday. As he did, Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice was still enjoying her vacation in New York.

In fact, that night she enjoyed a few good yucks while attending the goofy Broadway play "Spamalot." Ironically, the Bush team's performance this week did indeed seem like something out of a Monty Python skit. Each, in his or her own way, took a bunch of "silly walks."

Condi also played tennis with Monica Seles and on Thursday went on a shoe-shopping spree on Fifth Avenue until a fellow customer yelled at her for not doing her job and bloggers exposed all of this. Then she hurriedly headed back to Washington. Whoops, we discovered she was overdue in getting a grip on offers to help that were pouring in from overseas governments and organizations.

This is what our "leaders" were doing.  You know, the one's who people are lining up to defend?  What was Mayor Nagin doing, they ask, spinning blame as fast as possible.  He was working.  Rice was at a Broadway show, for farg's sake!

God damn these politicians.

[PhillyGirl]

Condi also played tennis with Monica Seles and on Thursday went on a shoe-shopping spree on Fifth Avenue until a fellow customer yelled at her for not doing her job and bloggers exposed all of this. Then she hurriedly headed back to Washington. Whoops, we discovered she was overdue in getting a grip on offers to help that were pouring in from overseas governments and organizations.

This is rich. I would have LOVED to have been a part of that.

[Diomedes]

3 Duke students got into New Orlean in a Hundyai, brought water and other supplies, then evacuated seven people.  All while the United States of America's government and it's nationalist sheeple apologists were crying Mea Culpa!! Mea Culpa!!

link

DURHAM -- A trio of Duke University sophomores say they drove to New Orleans late last week, posed as journalists to slip inside the hurricane-soaked city twice, and evacuated seven people who weren't receiving help from authorities.

The group, led by South Carolina native Sonny Byrd, say they also managed to drive all the way to the New Orleans Convention Center, where they encountered scenes early Saturday evening that they say were disgraceful.

"We found it absolutely incredible that the authorities had no way to get there for four or five days, that they didn't go in and help these people, and we made it in a two-wheel-drive Hyundai," said Hans Buder, who made the trip with his roommate Byrd and another student, David Hankla.

Buder's account -- told by cell phone Sunday evening as the trio neared Montgomery, Ala., on their way home -- chronicled a three-day odyssey that began when the students, angered by the news reports they were seeing on CNN, loaded up their car with bottled water and headed for the Gulf coast to see if they could lend a hand.

The trio say they left Durham about 6 p.m. Thursday and reached Montgomery about 12 hours later. After catching 1½ hours of sleep, they reached the coast at Mobile. From there, they traveled through the Mississippi cities of Biloxi and Gulfport.

more at link

There will be many, many stories like this one.  The people give and do what the government won't: as much as they can.


Duke sucks.

[Sgt PSN]

Has Bush put the White House flag at half mast yet?  Who makes that call?  I mean, who tells the nation to do it?  I submit that it's time to lower all the flags.

That is a good call if it hasn't been done it should be right now.

I don't believe (going by the "rules") that this particular incident requires the flag to be flown at half staff.  Typically, this honor is reserved high ranking governent officials or catastrophic events (non natural disaster, ie 9/11 or Pearl Harbor).  As for who decides if/when the flag is to be flown at half staff, the decision can be made at many levels.  Obviously the President can declare all flags to be flown at half staff for national mourning or rememberence.  Governers, mayors, etc can also make the decision on more local levels.  Police and Fire Departments often fly their flag at half staff if someone from their precinct or department is killed in the line of duty.  That obviously would be up to the individual station chief or possibly the city chief. 

Here are some of the rules regarding the flag and flying it at half mast. 

(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the death of the President or a former President; ten days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress.

Now given those particular rules, I don't think that this event warrants the flag being flown at half staff.  However, Section 8 of the Flag Code provides the President the authority to make changes to the rules. 

SEC. 8 Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in proclamation.

Should it be flown at half staff?  Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't.  My initial thought is no but at the same time, if the decision is made to do so, I'll live. 

[Diomedes]

Another example of people doing as much as they can:

San Diego man charters private jet to evacuate people from Baton Rouge. 

Perez, owner of Surge Global Energy, spent about $250,000 to charter a jet to bring 80 evacuees to San Diego Sunday. Perez was reloading the plane with supplies and planned to fly back Sunday night to pick up more displaced hurricane survivors.

[Butchers Bill]

No one person to blame?  Okay.  No one org to blame?  Ok.  Certainly it would be foolish to lay blame on one head, or one group.  What I can't stomach is this persistence that somehow it was the red tape that caused the deaths, not the people in charge.  That's bullshtein.  Sing yourself to sleep absolving the rulers all you want, it won't change the fact that they knew, they had the power to do something, and they did nothing.  American citizens died exactly because our government failed to protect them from a known threat, despite explicit warnings about this event, and in the face of constant evidence that the worst had occurred.  Every official at FEMA should be fired.  The head of Homeland Security should be fired. 

Never said it was the red tape that caused the deaths, but it didn't help either.  What exactly did the "leaders" know Dio?  That there was a potential flood threat to New Orleans?  Every administration since Hurricane Camille in 1969 knew there was a problem, yet the levees were still over 100 years old.  The entire Mississippi River is a flood area, so saying it was known is like saying its known that there will someday be an Earthquake in Southern California.  You cannot prevent natural disaters, but you can manage the aftermath which was a clusterfarg from the top down (yes, including Bush).   

And Bush should be impeached. 

Thats whats its all about for you and your ilk.  You cannot see that "Government" failed NOLA, because the only person you want to blame is Bush.  The Mayor, Gov. of LA, FEMA, and POTUS, all failed in their own ways and it is not acceptable, and there should be (and I am sure will be) an investigation into what happened, and how it happened.

[Geowhizzer]

Joel,

I am far from a liberal- remember, I think I tested even more conservative than you did on that Political test that was linked to CF a few months back.

I also have stressed that I do not solely blame Bush.  In fact, I would, like you, put more responsibility on the state and local governments than on the national government.  But all must share in the responsibility for the lack of governmental response to this emergency.  Help from the government- local, state and national- was far to delayed and far too little when it first did come.

I'll take your word on the National Guard situation.  Perhaps that is something that the government needs to look into.  The National Guard, if I can reminisce, used to be stressed as an aid in situations exactly like this.  I can even remember commericals from my childhood that showed National Guard troops hoisting sandbags to prevent flooding.

The has to be SOME way of being able to mobilize troops to help out in times of emergency.  What happened in Louisiana and Mississippi was unacceptable.  We've gone to the aid of other nations faster than the government moved to help its own citizens.

Hopefully Bush can move to help the people of the Gulf coast and erase some of the blights against his presidential record.  However, I don't believe tha he will ever be able to erase them all.

And some plan must be put together to prevent this from happening again.  The government must be more responsive in the face of natural disaster.

[Eagles76ersFan]

Eagles76ersFan...your posts could possibly be some of the most delusional and ignorant ones I've seen on this forum before. You rank right up there with the self-banned NoneBetta. You're actually trying to argue with fellow Republicans who are Bush supporters, only THEY can see that there is fault...you, for whatever reason, are so far gone, you can't see it. HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE IT?

It isn't the federal government's responsibility to prepare local communities for natural disasters. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the finger-pointing needs to start with the New Orleans city authorities and Lousiana government. NOT PRESIDENT BUSH AND HIS ADMINISTRATION.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/4/151327.shtml

I particularly like how the point is made that Jeb Bush dealt with four hurricanes last year, and we never saw Pensacola or Miami turn into lawless pits like New Orleans.

The mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana are blaming the feds for their own lack of disaster management is farging criminal and I can't believe people are actual buying into their shtein.

Something else that really pisses me off is the criticism that the war in Iraq has depleted the number of LA state troops. Each state must factor in domestic needs when providing the US Army with National Guard units. There may be a shortage of National Guardsmen in Lousiana, but their governor is the one who freed them up for service in Iraq/Afghanistan. It is an incredibly unfair and outright incorrect to blame President Bush for any kind of crap like this.

Blame is to be placed on Bush, but not nearly as much blame that should be put on the New Orleans city authorities and Lousiana government.

[Eagles76ersFan]

Oh, and WTF is Japan doing? http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.world.aid/index.html

Japan has offered to provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross, the Japanese Foreign Ministry said. Japan also will provide up to $300,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if it receives requests, the ministry said.

Is that a joke? $200k from the second wealthiest country in the world when Nigeria is giving $1mm. We got shtein on for initially only offering $300mm in tsunami relief. Are they still pissed over that thing with those 2 atomic bombs 60 years ago?