2014 Phillies Thread - There's Always Next Year

[Munson]

lol no it wouldn't.

[MDS]

hes above average but hes not HOF great like some people would lead you to believe...hes a heidi type

if he was a 16-18 game a year winner that would elevate him to a whole nother level

honest to god...i like you...you are a funny dude....good liberal

but this is one of the dumbest things ive ever read

[Don Ho]

cliff lee gave up 8 runs in 5 innings on opening day and got the win

hes given up only a pop fly home run tonight and will get the loss

STATS STATS STATS

You are making more sense every day.  I'm now all on board your stats thesis . 

[Don Ho]

@RoobCSN: Attendance tonight: 23,382. Phils have been under 28,000 five times this year. Phils were under 28,000 zero times previous five years.

YES!  Stay away bitches!  Far away.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Know what grinds my gears (other than sabr shtein)?

That punk bitch Dan Uggla sucks against everyone but the Phils.

[Don Ho]

I hated him as a Marlin, I hate him even more as a Brave. 

[MDS]

the phillies just suck, it has nothing to do with dan uggla

on the bright side this game should help increase lee's stock. with 1.5 years left on his deal they could get a ton for him at the deadline.

[Eagles_Legendz]

It's all about teams.  If Felix was on the Yankees he would win 16-18 a year while being the exact same pitcher.

[MDS]

this is just one example

in 2012 chris sale had a 3.05 era, 1.13 whip, 7.8 hits per 9, 9.0 ks per 9. he went 17-8.
in 2013 chirs sale had a 3.07, era, 1.08 whip, 7.7 hits per 9, 9.5 ks per 9. he went 11-14.

so, pretty much the same season. though 2013 was slightly better. anyway, in 2012 chicago went 85-77. in 2013 chicago went 63-99.

but im sure in 2013 he wasnt as good of a pitcher, despite no statistical evidence to support that claim. it had nothing AND I MEAN nothing to do with the fact that his team was decent in 2012 and total garbage in 2013.

[ice grillin you]

only a complete moron would rather have 2013 chris sale...unless of course you like losing

at least come up with an example where the guys era is under three compared to another year where its over 5 and he has way less wins....or where the stats in general arent even close

you seriously would rather have a .02 less era and .1 less h/9 if it came with six less wins?

[ice grillin you]

The Braves defeated the Phillies on Wednesday, 1-0, on a home run by Evan Gattis off an 0-2 pitch from Cliff Lee. Déjà vu? Last year on September 27, the Braves defeated the Phillies, 1-0, on a home run by Chris Johnson off an 0-2 pitch from Lee. There hasn't been another major-league game over the last three seasons (2012 to date) that ended 1-0 on an 0-2 homer.

Lee has allowed 15 home runs on 0-2 pitches over the last 10 seasons, tying Mark Buehrle for the highest total in the major leagues in that time frame.

Gattis was only the second player since 1900 to go 4-for-4 with a home run in a 1-0 win. The other was "A"-List Hall-of-Famer Rogers Hornsby in a Cubs victory over the Reds at Wrigley Field in 1929. That was Hornsby's 39th and final home run of the season, tying the team record that Hack Wilson had set earlier in the month (and which Wilson would break a year later).

[Eagles_Legendz]

The point is his performance was essentially completely identical but the team was worse so his record was worse because a lot of what goes into W/L for pitchers is out of their control.   It fluctuates for reasons that often have little to do with them getting better or worse.   Your entire way of looking at things somehow values a pitcher as better or worse depending on the run support they get and the team that they're on.  It's a team stat that you're giving to an individual. 

Of course I'd rather the team won more games.  But the reason the W/L changes in Sale's example is not because he's any worse - it's because the team is worse/gave less run support...things that have absolutely no bearing on whether he's good or not.  I don't understand how you can honestly look at things and say that Felix's W/L changed how you view him as a pitcher when if he was on the Yankees or Red Sox his entire career he would have 30 more wins while being the exact same pitcher.  It's entirely a product of circumstance. 

[smeags]

gotta love old fart thinking baseball guys when it comes to the win stat. 

[ice grillin you]

lol @ "the win stat"

its only wins....no big deal

[smeags]