Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[Eagles_Legendz]

Rich people should pay more than 25%.

Why?

Because we need higher taxes until either party gets sincere about cutting spending even a little bit.

Yes, that means defense spending too.   I also don't need Pubs talking about how necessary it is to defund things like NPR while telling me that increased taxes wouldn't raise enough revenue when the revenue raised would far outstrip most discretionary spending cuts.

[Eagles_Legendz]

To be clear, I'm in favor of higher taxes and spending cuts across the board.  Once we actually start doing something about the deficit, we can have an actual philosophical debate about the tax rate. 

Yes I realize Team Obama hasn't exactly done a sparkling job on the deficit either.  Both sides need to change their rhetoric.  Massive tax cuts is going to hurt, not help though.   And I'll believe a Pub is sincere about "small" govt when I see it.  Give me a Republican candidate who is willing to cut military spending and stop overseas adventurism, as well as some discretionary spending, and I'll do more than roll my eyes when I hear talking points about spending cuts.

[Rome]

The GOP wants to slash entitlement programs if not eliminate them altogether.  As someone who's worked and paid taxes for 35 years I understand the impulse to want to lower their tax burden.  But you can't have motherfargers starving on the streets, you can't have old people going without lifesaving meds, and you can't have a civilized society in 2012 without some active social safety net, especially in the richest goddamn country on the planet. 

[Eagles_Legendz]

Basically.  I'm all for having a discussion about some entitlement reform, discussing what to do going forward about social security etc, but the measures need to be far less drastic than what the right is proposing.

[Eagaholic]

Because they can without being hurt, and they didn't get it on their own.  They are lucky enough to live in a society that is structured so that some of the people can become fantastically wealthy, and extremely lucky to have become one of those few people.  The price they ought to pay for thier incredible good fortune is a much higher tax rate.  It's only fair that, on income above a given amount set high enough to make sure they can afford food shelter etc (let's say $350k per year), all further income should be taxed at a very high rate.  The rest of society, without whom these people could  not become wealthy, has needs as a whole which cannot be financed on the backs of the poor and middle class equally.  They must have generous support from the rich if the rich want to keep being rich.  Clean water, roads, schools which produce educated workers, etc...starve these things by making the poorest people pay the greatest share for them, and they will wither and die, and then soon thereafter, so will the rich people.  We'll eat them.

After you can pay for your food and shelter and kids to go to whatever school they want and you've got your two car garage and your three fifty thousand dollar cars and your 50k per year going into retirement savings, the rest of your income is gravy and ought to be taxed out the ass.

This sounds to me like reverse entitlement - they got a lot more than we do so they should fork it over. I don't agree. It isn't just luck that many of the wealthy got to where they are (though of course it is in other cases, or jut good fortune to be born into a rich family). When people make more, they still pay more in taxes (of course assuming they fairly pay what they are supposed to) without needing a higher marginal rate.

I don't like all the loopholes there are in the tax code that the wealthy can exploit and I'd like to see some sort of flat tax to even the playing field, but if you are talking about fairness, it is clearly unfair to penalize people for making more just because they do. They don't have any greater responsibility to take care of the less wealthy than anyone else beyond a certain baseline. That said, if I were super rich and I didn't share a good bit of the wealth I had I couldn't live with myself. None the less, if another person chooses to keep their wealth to themself, it is their business what they do with it, including if they want to be even incredibly selfish even in the face of so much need all around them. I don't agree with the premise that if wealthy people make their money off of less wealthy people (which is debatable and certainly the reverse could be said), they are obliged to give it back.

I might think a little differently if this were a communist or socialist state, but we are set up as a capitalistic economy in a democracy.

Everybody likes to hold this stereotype that wealthy people have everything just fall into their laps magically rather than maybe they could have worked hard for their gains and sacrificed and prioritized income or business over things other people regularly enjoy. Or, that their gains are ill gotten by exploiting the little guy, but I doubt the wealthy are scamming or exploiting any more than the average or even below average income person.

[Eagles_Legendz]

We don't need to live in a socialist state to think that the tax rate should be higher than 25%.  I actually have some significant right leanings fiscally, but we simply have a fundamental difference of opinion if you think slashing taxes at this point in time will not be detrimental to the deficit.

Raise taxes, cut spending, get a handle on the deficit, and then we can discuss where the tax rates should be.

[Munson]

Time and again when I've had this discussion, one word seems to show it's ugly head..."Penalty". Some people seem to view taxes as some sort of penalty. Others view them as the lubricant that keeps society going, the same society that allowed you to become so wealthy in the first place.

I just don't view taxes as any sort of "penalty"....it's what comes out of my paycheck every week to go towards the greater good of society.

[Munson]

Under Paul Ryan's economic plan, Mitt Romney would pay .82% in taxes.

[ice grillin you]

interesting.....

http://bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2012/08/10/mitt-romney-ira-unlikely-centerpiece-wealth-and-tax-avoidance/G0H9niB3MbRjLh6KcqSZjO/story.html

[Sgt PSN]

What I really don't understand is how the hell people can read stories like this and think that illegal immigrants or terrorists or Obama's thesis are the greatest threats to this country when we've got home grown talent gutting the place from the inside? 

The house has a termite infestation and people are building privacy walls around their property and giving the paper boy a cavity search thinking it will solve the problem.  Farging nitwits. 

[ice grillin you]

What I really don't understand is how the hell people can read stories like this and think that illegal immigrants or terrorists or Obama's thesis are the greatest threats to this country when we've got home grown talent gutting the place from the inside?

shore can probably explain it to you in a clear and precise manner

[Sgt PSN]

I doubt it.  He's already written like 5 novels on the subject and I still don't get it.   

[PhillyPhreak54]

A black president and the illegal brownies are our country's biggest threats. Ma and Pa middle America said so.

[Rome]

I checked into what it would take to emigrate with my family to New Zealand this past week.   It's not easy and it's quite expensive but since we're both college graduates we could probably pull it off.   Seriously, I want nothing to do with this country if Ryan & his ilk are swept into power. 

[Munson]

On the flipside, if they do get into power and cut as much as they say they will, the resulting economic catastrophe would be so great that you could pretty much say goodbye to the GOP being relevant after 2016....IF the Democrats were smart about it.