Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[rjs246]

I guess you're saying the people pick an 'issue' and vote one way or another on that issue despite not actually knowing anything about that issue or the policy realities? I guess I can agree with that. But I know lots of old people who vote Republican for no reason other than that's the way they've always voted. If they spent 5 seconds thinking/reading about it they'd realize that the elderly are the people most positively impacted by our social safety net and they'd realize that the GOP proposals would cripple that safety net. They haven't picked an issue, they've just picked a political team to die-hard-root-for-to-the-end for no rational reason.

[Rome]

Ignant church goers vote straight GOP because of the pablum theyre fed there.   That's a dead bang fact and those imbeciles ARE the majority here in Oz.

The fact that the soul brotha captured a win in 2008 is a miracle.  I don't expect a repeat this year because that majority wants Romney anyone else.  They want a nice white conservative in charge, and since one isn't available they'll settle for the cultist multimillionaire corporate shill.

[Hawk]

Anyone that doesn't think the same way as the members of this board is ignorant and racist.

Mocking people that blindly vote Republican is also hilarious given the amount of people who blindly vote for Democrats.   Reading the amount of crying after the Wisconsin election was beautiful.   I assume the tears will be even sweeter in November.

Four years of failure and igy and Rome are bitching that people are voting against their interests.

[ice grillin you]

actually im a white rich male

i should be a romney surrogate

[Munson]

Anyone that doesn't think the same way as the members of this board is ignorant and racist.

Mocking people that blindly vote Republican is also hilarious given the amount of people who blindly vote for Democrats.   Reading the amount of crying after the Wisconsin election was beautiful.   I assume the tears will be even sweeter in November.

Four years of failure and igy and Rome are bitching that people are voting against their interests.

4 years of failure? By whom? Which of obama's economic policies have "failed" exactly? Because there isn't an economist out there who disagrees with the fact that unemployment would have been higher without the stimulus. Really the only "failures" of obama's tenure so far have been his continuations of GOP policies. As for the crying in wisonsin, yes let's cheer on the stomping of middle class workers...how is that at all a good thing? The funny thing about states like wisconsin and new york that have better compensated teachers is they also tend to have better education systems.

[paco]

Because there isn't an economist out there who disagrees with the fact that unemployment would have been higher without the stimulus.

Really? Because it seems to me thats one of the biggest criticisms.

[Munson]

Because there isn't an economist out there who disagrees with the fact that unemployment would have been higher without the stimulus.

Really? Because it seems to me thats one of the biggest criticisms.

nearly every economist I've read, left right whatver, has said that unemployment would have topped out at 12-13 percent without stimulus. The predictions for recovery, on the otherhand, all over the place because no one can seem to agree just how deep this recession is/was. In the end, there's really nothing that obama has done, especially the stimulus, that would have somehow hindered the hiring of people by the private sector. Especially considering that about a third of the stimulus was tax cuts.

[Munson]

And it also may depend on when the numbers on that chart were predicited...because at the time, all of the projections and the stimulus bill itself were crafted on the idea that the economy was shrinking at a 4 percent rate...turns out 2 years later they figured out it shrank at double that, 8 percent

[paco]

For full disclosure:

1) I read a lot of business magazines\papers, which tend to have a right wing bias
2) Anyone who knows me well knows that, while I disagree with his economic policies on a whole, I do admit that his stimulus may have saved MY job, since I was placed on a project in 2009 on Obama bucks after being "on the bench" (not on a project) for 5 weeks.  (I do say MY job since my company was laying off lots of people who were under performing.  I was one of the few lucky ones) 

Being that said I have seen quite a few people out there who criticize the stimulus.  So I disagree with the statements that no one is questioning it and that it's a "fact" that unemployment would have been higher (since its impossible to know for sure.)

[Rome]

Anyone that doesn't think the same way as the members of this board is ignorant and racist.

Mocking people that blindly vote Republican is also hilarious given the amount of people who blindly vote for Democrats.   Reading the amount of crying after the Wisconsin election was beautiful.   I assume the tears will be even sweeter in November.

Four years of failure and igy and Rome are bitching that people are voting against their interests.

Ignore.

[Tomahawk]

Anybody who blindly votes for either party should be mocked. In fact, anybody who votes at all should be mocked

[Munson]

For full disclosure:

1) I read a lot of business magazines\papers, which tend to have a right wing bias
2) Anyone who knows me well knows that, while I disagree with his economic policies on a whole, I do admit that his stimulus may have saved MY job, since I was placed on a project in 2009 on Obama bucks after being "on the bench" (not on a project) for 5 weeks.  (I do say MY job since my company was laying off lots of people who were under performing.  I was one of the few lucky ones) 

Being that said I have seen quite a few people out there who criticize the stimulus.  So I disagree with the statements that no one is questioning it and that it's a "fact" that unemployment would have been higher (since its impossible to know for sure.)

I'm not saying people (especially republican politicians and talking heads) don't question the stimulus as a whole, or whatever effect it has had on the recovery(though I personally don't see how a stimulus would somehow hinder people from hiring 3 years later)...but I have yet to read a credible source (ie one without an agenda) that says that unemployment would have stayed lower during the recession itself had there been no stimulus...and in fact it goes against common sense for that to be true.

[Rome]

Anybody who blindly votes for either party should be mocked. In fact, anybody who votes at all should be mocked

I would gladly vote for a Republican if I could find one who wasn't a human equivalent of a vat of horse manure.  However, I will say that I haven't voted in past elections because both Presidential candidates were despicable.

[rjs246]

Because there isn't an economist out there who disagrees with the fact that unemployment would have been higher without the stimulus.

Really? Because it seems to me thats one of the biggest criticisms.

I've seen that chart before and it is pretty deeply flawed. Mainly, it is based on pre-stimulus estimates that were flatly wrong. The recession turned out to be significantly more severe than initial economist estimates. The assumptions that went into crafting the stimulus turned out to be way more mild than what proved to be reality. In the aftermath, I also have not read a single unaffiliated economist that claims that the stimulus was somehow harmful to the short term economy.

Further to that point, we have an actual real life stimulus vs. austerity experiment going on as we speak. A situation that is basically unheard of. Several European countries have taken the austerity route, while the US and certain other European economies have gone the stimulus route. The results have been identical across the board. Countries that opted for stimulus have experienced growth and ended their recessions (though 'strong' growth really isn't being seen anywhere right now). Countries that opted for austerity (or were forced into it) are tanking big time. 20+% unemployment, severely contracting economies, etc etc.

Comparing the US to those countries isn't a fair apples to apples comparison, but the differing approaches and results are stark.

I'm not saying that the long term debt problem isn't a problem. It is and it needs to be addressed, but given the situation and the ideological wall that the GOP has put up, I think BHO has done about as well as could be reasonably expected. He even resisted the temptation to curb regulation to look like a pro-markets guy. Lack of regulation makes everyone giddy in the short term but in the long term it is bad bad bad policy and it's what led us to the spot we're in now.

[Diomedes]

I got a big envelope from the MD Republican party, aka my peoples, in the mail yesterday.  Shrill warnings about an impending takeover by extreme liberals, blah blah blah.  Must have cost them fifty cents to send it.  The mailing included several pages of truly idiotic words, and a real prize: two prepaid envelopes, which I posted straight back to them containing awesome snarky notes.

Costing the American Taliban money while supporting the USPS who they hate + pissing them off = priceless.  Even better, the MD Republicans are basically bankrupt, so when they spend money on a mailing like this, it puts a hurt on them.  I'm happy to shtein in their soup.