U.S.A. tortures. Go ahead, deny it Bush lovers.

[rjs246]

lol....you read to many tom clancy books

You are using a fantasy world, espionage novel example to justify torture.

Scary.

You are missing the point. Part of what our troops are fighting and dying for is the ideal that America and Americans stand for something completely different than what goes on in these countries, or what is done by our enemies.

Amen.


And by the way, in the completely idiotic example that BB gave, yes I would be ok with using enhanced techniques to get information from the dude that we already know has information about the nuclear strike that we already know is going to happen. Satisfied?

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Oh no! They're shipping exploding retards over to US soil by the thousands! We're in so much danger! Better torture someone about it.

Way to give them a great idea on a public message board.  I hope the first batch of exploding retards arrives at Plymouth Rock, just like the Pilgrims.

[Butchers Bill]

lol....you read to many tom clancy books

but if it makes you happy yes i would allow the torture of someone if it means saving the entire city of washington dc from a nuclear attack

Sorry IGY, but that just shows your total ignorance of the reality the US faces today.  In the early parts of the Afgan war that type of intel (specifically bio and chemical info) was being found regularly.  It was also found in Iraq.  In most cases it was just "tough talk" but some of the material was actionable.  The point is there are people in the World today that would use those types of weapons on civilian populations in the US if given the opportunity, and that is a fact.  This isn't entertainment fiction, its the real world so joke all you want but I want a leader in place that will do whatever is necessary in the face of an imminent threat...not make calls to the ACLU for their opinion.

[rjs246]

I feel sorry for people who are so scared of this country being attacked that they will sacrifice all other common sense and belief for the sake of 'being protected'. We are a geographically isolated country with the largest and most sophisticated military in the world. Torture won't make us any safer and if you require some sort of assurance that you will be safe from all danger you need to wake up and start living in the real world because that shtein ain't ever gonna happen.

[ice grillin you]

awesome post DC

[Seabiscuit36]

I feel sorry for people who are so scared of this country being attacked that they will sacrifice all other common sense and belief for the sake of 'being protected'. We are a geographically isolated country with the largest and most sophisticated military in the world. Torture won't make us any safer and if you require some sort of assurance that you will be safe from all danger you need to wake up and start living in the real world because that shtein ain't ever gonna happen.

Would you support torturing ATV?

[rjs246]

Would you support torturing ATV?

Yes but only for my own enjoyment. Any information he shares will not be relayed to the powers that be.

[Seabiscuit36]

I find Monkey Torture funny

[Father Demon]

I get the argument.  Yes, we are above it all.  I agree.  Mindless "torture" is wrong, and to apply it to everyone that is in custody is wrong.  But, in the name of "torture" I'm not sure that everyone is on the same page.  What is torture?

We have seen people do to their own people things so horrible and horrendous, it put's the term torture to a new level.  Beating people within an inch of their lives, stoning, cutting off hands/feet/fingers/etc, killing and raping family members, raping the prisoners, electrocution, breaking limbs...  they do this to their own people (yes, I'm talking about the middle east - our allies AND enemies), what will they do to their enemies?

But some of the stuff being mentioned as our torture techniques (from here) isn't torture.  Here's the list of 10:
(l) attention grasp, (2) walling, (3) facial hold, (4) facial slap (insult slap), (5) cramped confinement, (6) wall standing, (7) stress positions, (8 ) sleep deprivation, (9) insects placed in a confinement box, and (10) the waterboard.

How many of those are really torture?  When I was a child, I was slapped (granted, not in the face), had a facial hold put on me, and told to stand in a corner by my parents.  I don't see how any one of those (waterboarding, aside, because I can't get my head around how that simulates drowning or death - some SEREs school grad fill me in, please) can be put in the same category as physical beatings, etc as I mentioned above.

[rjs246]

I only subject myself to beatings in the bedroom, so I can't comment on what is torture and what isn't, but it seems to me that there is an international standard and rules about what constitutes torture and what doesn't. And if we are going to profess to take the moral high ground as a country, but not follow internationally agreed upon rules, that means that we aren't even meeting the bare minimums in terms or morality. So I think Demon's argument is fundamentally flawed.

[Butchers Bill]

I feel sorry for people who are so scared of this country being attacked that they will sacrifice all other common sense and belief for the sake of 'being protected'. We are a geographically isolated country with the largest and most sophisticated military in the world. Torture won't make us any safer and if you require some sort of assurance that you will be safe from all danger you need to wake up and start living in the real world because that shtein ain't ever gonna happen.

Geographically isolated?  LOL.  Our borders are sieves, our ports unprotected, and the largest and most sophisticated military in the world isn't allowed to operate on our borders.

I'll say it again for those who have reading difficulties.  The widespread use of enhanced interrogation (waterboarding, bugs, sleep deprivation, standing for extended periods, etc. is not torture by the way) should never have been used as extensively as it was and is a waste of time for the reasons some of you mentioned. 

[Sgt PSN]

I don't believe that simply because our enemies are willing the torture that we also should be willing to torture. Research has shown repeatedly that torture doesn't produce helpful information. It produces information that will lead to the torture being stopped.

So you have just captured a person who had information on them relating to an imminent nuclear attack on Washington D.C..  What would you do?

if the intel on that person is good enough to find out that this individual has info regarding a nuclear attack, then intel should be good enough to gather more specifics without torturing.  

change your tactics.  find new ways to get him to talk without torturing him.  

people often think that just because something has always been done a certain way, that it must be the best and only way to do it.  nothing could be further from the truth.  

when the automobile was introduced it was largely rejected by people because they didn't think anything could ever replace the horse and buggy.  up until that point, horses had been the primary means of transportation of people and goods for hundreds and hundreds of years.  all it took was one guy to think outside the box and come up with a better way.  

same goes for interrogation techniques.  there's always going to be a better way.  

[PhillyPhanInDC]

Arguing with a guy like Butchers Bill will never get you anywhere. He's not going to read anything typed here and have an epiphany and say to himself, "Wow, I understand why it's wrong!".

He most likely believes that his conservatism makes him more dedicated to keeping America the same than someone who leans more to the center or left. The truth is his right-wing belief that torture is justified does more to damage the true image of America, what it was intended to be by those who created it, and most importantly, those who have fought and died to protect the ideas they imparted in it's creation.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Arguing with a guy like Butcher's Bill will never get you anywhere. He's not going to read anything typed here and have an epiphany and say to himself, "Wow, I understand why it's wrong!".

Arguing with a guy like ATV will never get you anywhere. He's not going to read anything typed here and have an epiphany and say to himself, "Wow, I understand why it's wrong!".

Arguing with a guy like IGY will never get you anywhere. He's not going to read anything typed here and have an epiphany and say to himself, "Wow, I understand why it's wrong!".

Arguing with a guy like pretty much every other icehole on will never get you anywhere. He's not going to read anything typed here and have an epiphany and say to himself, "Wow, I understand why it's wrong!".

[Seabiscuit36]

Monkey Torture..YAY